Finding Nature

Today’s guest is a really fun one - Bel Chellingworth - none other than the Garbologist - joins to chat all things waste, packaging, circularity, business models, structural change and individual agency.

Bel's career to date spans government, corporate and is now Director and Principal Consultant of BC Consulting, continuing to help business and community reduce waste and make circular economy real. Previously she's led the circular economy portfolio for the London School of Economics, The GPT Group, Australia Post, and ALDI Stores AU - always advocating for prevention, reuse and repair to be the first responders to waste issues.

Waste is a topic that daunts me. My first few years out of uni were working in and around waste - from compliance driven packaging reporting to staff education on bins to municipal scale biowaste renewable energy projects. It left me pretty scarred, and to be honest it’s a problem I am familiar with but not overly involved with or participating in. When I heard the story of Bel and the remarkable feat she has achieved in reducing her own personal waste footprint to essentially zero I was spurred to go and listen to her and the stats and trajectory of basically every product and their waste was overwhelming. I knew I had to get over my own anxieties and avoidance and get Bel on the show.

And she doesn’t disappoint. I took an absolute tonne from this chat - from the invisible forces of industry power to convoluted regulatory and legislative frameworks that don’t serve environmental outcomes, to the ways new types of business are embedding actual circularity into their business models from the get-go as opposed to trying to retrofit existing broken systems and paradigms, and then her own journey and experiences in shifting her own practices.

She also appears regularly in the Australian media as an expert 'Garbologist' and has a residency on ABC Radio Nightlife, the program aptly named 'Waste Not, Want Not' fortnightly broadcasting all around the country, demystifying circularity, and making actions for waste prevention clear and accessible for everyone. 

Bel is an example of personal change and the power of attraction over promotion. How by being the example as a lighthouse she helps inspire and allow others to realise what their potential is and how they can make a valuable contribution to environmental protection and sustainability. I had such a blast chatting to Bel, and she’s helped reform me on my own waste system anxieties and avoidance. 

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Today’s guest is Zack Schofield - one of the lead organisers and who Murdoch media describe as a prominent member of the climate action and activist group Rising Tide. Now I know protest and civil disobedience isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but I suspect just about everybody listening to this show has joined one at some point - whether the school strike for climate, one seeking justice regarding Indigenous deaths in custody, respect for women and an end to gender based violence, or maybe it was the Rising Tide prostevial in Newcastle in November last year or in 2023, they certainly have a role to play. From just being able to capture the energy and zeal of a group through to being a deliberate effort to raise anger and demand a response. Personally I think they are important, and as Zack points out in this chat so much social and political change over time has been born out of and the result of acts of protest, boycott and strikes. At the same time though, I appreciate they are not everyone’s cup of tea.

During a planetary crisis, when fossil fuel projects continue to be approved for expansion here and abroad - which is against the science and I would have thought contradicts climate commitments and the actual decarbonisation of our economies and societies - I wanted to bring Zack’s experiences and stories to you today and to share more about what drives him, what Rising Tide is about and how to make sense of and discern the aspirations and demands of such entities in the grand tapestry of meaningful and effective action.

I was in a near constant state of awe speaking with Zach about his and the efforts of other activists out there. This is an emergency, and while there is a need and space for the work many do in corporates or start ups or academic research or policy development and implementation, increasingly I think there is a space for a movement of direct action to hamper and restrict the fundamental cause of the climate crisis - generating emissions.

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Today I’m launching and introducing to you the listener and the reader over on the Finding Nature Substack a project titled The Encroaching Apocalypse or A Glorious New View.

Like all things Finding Nature I feel compelled to examine and imagine what could be possible, but I want to know more about the barriers and the blockers of the present moment. I’ve spent the past few years working almost exclusively in the baffling world of climate risk management - the science of climate, the efforts to convince people that benign historical data is no indicator of a future we’ve never experienced as a civilisation, the visible progressive degradation caused by more frequent and intense disasters - often in new and expanded locations, but also the invisible progressive decline of how financial institutions are working out how to manage their enterprise risk and the types of restrictions or barriers they’re placing on access to the fundamental products people and businesses require to operate in an economy. The lack of action on changing building codes, the complacency of leadership, the sticking of heads in sand, the mindsets and incentives of the present and what those need to evolve to to avoid total calamity.

Watching the recent LA fires play out I couldn’t help but feel struck by how apocalyptic the scenes from Pacific Palisades and other parts of the city looked. I’ve visited and run on those now ashen trails and suburbs. Another city hit by something unprecedented. It struck me that these fires were just the latest disaster ground zero. The apocalypse another step closer, encroaching. Just this week North Queensland here is going through the downpour of all downpours. Yet life keeps moving on. CEOs do talks. Balance sheets seem unaffected. Politicians scramble for snippets.

Beyond the doomerism though I want to know what to do, but also why we’re so stuck. Where is the creativity, where is the novelty, where is the madness and the anger and the resistance and the outright petulance? What else do we need for that awakening at both individual and societal levels? More of the same that got us here will just result in more of the same. ESG surveys and benchmarks, time wasted lamenting disingenuous and disinforming politicians, another beige home energy assessment portal - this time with added AI, more AI for good. I want to go beyond that and explore intervention options, choice points, the invisibility of progressive decline, the potential imagery and metaphors by which to build new stories and make hope out of, to understand the relevance of Icarus, the boy who flew too close to the sun in this day and age.

Today's full epsiodes:

Lesley Hughes

Alexander Pui

Kate Cotter

Sam Kernaghan

Regina Featherstone

Paul Oosting

Nadya Hutagalung

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Hello out there and welcome to or welcome back to the finding nature podcast. My name is Nathan Robertson-Ball and this is my show where I speak to the change makers and paradigm busters who are working towards and making a difference in our collective efforts to make the world a safer, more just and sustainable place. I love doing this show, and over the last couple of days finding nature as an endeavour turned one years old - what started as an experiment by running hosted conversations at my actual job just like this and holding three pilot events has become this wonderfully enriching and meaningful undertaking. I’m very grateful for all the help and support and participation and listening so many have offered me this past year, it’s been the greatest professional undertaking of my career and I’m really pleased to be bringing you another fantastic guest who’s been on the vanguard of Australian and global sustainable finance efforts and changes.

Nathan Fabian joins today, and he is a man that an introduction on what roles he’s held and work he’s done barely addresses the phenomenal impact and contribution he has made towards reforming and creating a new trajectory for sustainable finance in this country and around the world.

Nathan’s career has involved being the Chief Executive at the Investor Group on Climate Change during the hottest years of Australia’s climate wars, advisor to senior politicians, a formative experience in management consulting and since 2015 he’s had an array of roles and titles at the United Nations Principles of Responsible Investment based in London and Brussels - from policy director to chief responsible investment officer and now chief sustainable systems officer. At the same time he was also appointed as the chairperson of the European platform on sustainable finance which developed and launched the world’s first sustainable finance taxonomy. And in 2023 he was included in POLITICO’s annual ranking of the 28 power players behind Europe’s green agenda - a list involving Vladimir Putin as ‘the invader making the EU green’.

This conversation was an absolute cracker. I’ve been replaying it in my head and recounting it to others ever since we sat down to chat. Nathan’s experience and wisdom at the helm of some of the most significant efforts globally to re-plumb the financial system are simply remarkable, and as someone who has now spent a fair bit of career time in finance, this was both fascinating and insightful. From his experiences in multi-stakeholder dialogue processes to lessons from investment cases in the early contested years of clean energy policy in Australia to how he handles and manages his personal responses to breaking through the 1.5 degree barrier and watching the latest climate calamity in LA. This has something for everyone looking to make a mark in the world and contribute to a more sustainable and equitable future.

Few have achieved what Nathan has not only in Australia but anywhere in the world, and this chat is essential listening for any of us striving to make big audacious change practical, possible and a reality. I hope you enjoy it.

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This week’s guest is a huge one - the one and only Nadya Hutagalung. Activist, conservationist, film maker, model, mother and attuned citizen on Planet Earth. Nadya’s experiences, her work and her own efforts to heal herself from all she has seen, encountered and felt is extraordinary, and I’m absolutely thrilled to be sharing this episode with you.

Nadya’s trajectory to stratospheric stardom in the mid 90s didn’t come from a normal or predictive route - an Indonesian Australian child growing up in regional NSW, she was catapulted into modelling in Japan at the age of 12, and less than a decade later she was part of launching MTV in Asia as one of their first VJs. An innate connection to the natural world existed though, and before long she was sharing the stage with world leaders, heads of state and other public figures in bringing attention and awareness to issues such as wildlife trafficking and poaching, plastic pollution and the ills of fast fashion. Nadya’s trajectory took a turn in 2018, when a series of stressful and life changing experiences and opportunities - from launching UN Environment Program reports, to reading an Uninhabitable Earth and a private session with His Holiness the Dalai Lama created a new set of conditions by which to continue to both pursue urgent and widespread change in reversing no shortage of problems, while also seeking to practice stillness and undertake deeper inner inquiry. In 2021 a serious and acute health condition put just about everything on hold, and before long she returned home to Australia for the first time in decades, and today, she’s on the show to share in much more detail about all of this.

Nadya is a fantastic guest to have on this show, and someone who represents and aligns with so much of my own thinking and the reasoning behind why I started Finding Nature in the first place. Her explanation that our society’s out of control relationship to planetary boundaries is a matter of simple calculus is straight forward and clear, but what lies underneath all of the statistics and facts and rationale as to why action on any number of serious environmental problems is a broken relationship to self, to each other and to our planet. Unless we address our values, our worldviews, our beliefs, our relationships, it’s hard to appreciate how this is going to end up any differently than the trajectory we’re on at the moment. The other thing I wanted to chat about with Nadya was how to help people go from apathy to care, and what are the tools of inner resolve that are necessary when people do care. Because to care is to feel pain, to despair, to experience fear. They are difficult emotions and feelings to encounter and deal with, and as an attempting change maker, this has become increasingly important to focus on as the apocalypse continues to encroach with just the latest calamitous, unprecedented disaster.

This time with Nadya was special. I hope from this you realise that you aren’t alone in your own struggles, and that there are modalities, practices and people out there who care about who you are, how you’re going as a person attempting to and making change, and that help is always available as you traverse the ups and downs of what life offers up on a daily basis.

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Today’s guest is someone who has absolutely been one of those people on the forefront of impacting business, our world and particularly the voiceless for the better. Richard Boele is on the show today to chat about his remarkable life and career - from visiting China and Tibet in the late 1980s and witnessing violence on his first day in Lhasa, to playing a vital role in making public to the world the deleterious impacts Shell’s oil operations in Nigeria have had and the impact that Ken Saro-Wira had on him, through to how businesses today and their leaders face a seemingly overwhelming array of inputs, data and choices, all while juggling their shareholder obligations, community expectations, short and long term perspectives, responsibilities to respect human rights and the role of purpose and having a reason to exist that is more substantial than favouring extractive financial results. We also talk briefly about Richard’s personal practices that have helped him stay sane, well and optimistic after all of these years working against, in and for business right around the world, as well as the tragic losses he’s experienced as a father.

Richard is somewhat of an idol to me. I had the grand privilege of working for him for seven years in the early part of my career, and it’s annoying how I realise the role and value of experience and wisdom after the fact, when I’ve gotten old enough to recognise and appreciate it. Professionally he’s one of if not the most significant person in my career to date, and the time I spent with Richard on jobs and around the office chatting about power, understanding relationships, always thinking about work as an opportunity to deliver a trojan horse and how systems and individuals relate and interact are things I’ve carried ever since.

It was a great privilege to reprise my relationship with Richard, to catch up, to hear a few of his stories and be reminded that one of the best in corporate sustainability in the world is always at the end of a phone call for me. I really hope you get to enjoy this one, and feel inspired and hopeful by Richard’s example.

Thank you for listening today, I appreciate it and don't take your precious time for granted.

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Dr Anastasia Hronis is a clinical psychologist and founder of the Australian Institute for Human Wellness. She is a practicing clinician, as well as a researcher and lecturer at the University of Technology Sydney. She has published in a number of prestigious academic journals, appears regularly on TV discussing all manner of topics related to mental health and wellbeing, and has also performed at some of the world’s greatest music venues as a concert pianist. If that’s not enough, she’s also the author of The Dopamine Brain which I found an utterly compelling and valuable read.

With the growth in interest and understanding of how our brains work and the neurology that lays down the wires that inform and influence every one of our choices, behaviours and actions, dopamine has gone from being an abstract topic discussed in universities and health clinics, to a hot topic across social media, the news and in our culture. Seemingly all of a sudden everyone is an expert in dopamine, or neurotransmitters or how our brains operate and drive our lives. The Dopamine Brain myth busts, defines, explains and brings to life the incredible ways by which our brains work.

Anastasia and I chat about this but also the role dopamine plays in both resisting and enabling what we do, which is relevant as we enter the second week of January and those resolutions or goals for 2025 become increasingly difficult to stay on track with. There’s good science as to why that is - beyond the myth that this is all about willpower and unlimited levels of personal responsibility. Our neurology can dictate and open or shut opportunities to change, and Anastasia’s book plus this chat reinforced that change is difficult for two fundamental reasons that are beyond the power of my will - changing my neurology involves a period of painful withdrawal where slipping and returning to pattern is a more convenient option despite the irrationality, while creating new pathways and resetting dopamine levels is physically uncomfortable and about re-organising the neurology in my brain. It helped me have compassion for myself as I look to make shifts and some transitions this year, why these have been so difficult in the past and also helps me hold onto optimism that the difficulty of these periods do eventually erode, and that light is shining at the end of the tunnel.

Thank you for listening today, I appreciate it and don't take your precious time for granted.

If you enjoyed this episode or any other, please offer a rating as the algorithms appreciate that type of interaction, share the show with friends, colleagues and on social media - tag me in with your comments - and subscribe.

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Finding Nature wouldn’t exist without today’s guest. A man I’ve known for 25 years and has been a role model, coach and mentor to me through much of that. Richard Burton is the perfect person to be kicking off the new year. Why’s that? Being the new year, no matter how much we seek to avoid the platitudes of new year’s resolutions, I find it impossible not to experience moments and periods of reflection. Many of us have a bit of time and space from our usual routines, habits and obligations over this period, and for me that surfaces questions, aspirations, questions and ideas.

Richard is a career coach, a recovering corporate executive, father, husband and truly one of the greatest people I have had the privilege of knowing. In 2023, when I was at a low ebb personally he reached out to me in a way that very few could. He sheltered me from the storms of change occurring in my life and helped create a refuge where I could begin to feel grounded and supported. Later that year, as I began to steady myself I knew something needed to change for me professionally. Lost in my own career, I was reminded of the value of coaching. Listening to others talking about the importance and role of seeking and receiving help for our working lives, it hit me that I needed to revisit work I’d done with Richard over a decade ago in exploring my strengths, interests and motivations to help me become clear on what my purpose is.

Purpose I hear you say? That vague and awful exercise my workplace every now and again attempts to induce me to contemplate in 30 minutes of awkward group exercises. Or that hacky snake oil stuff just about everybody seems to be pushing with their hokey one liners and Instagram-esque quotes. What the hell is purpose? With Richard I was fortunate not to need convincing on the necessity of this work, its role in my life and why I needed professional help. So I went and got it and the gifts of help from a master of his craft was evident immediately. Relief and liberation in assessing where I was, where I’d come from, and able to begin to imagine what was possible. Not only was Finding Nature seeded in those coaching sessions, but my whole approach to how I turned up and engaged professionally was transformed.

The work with Richard was organised, evidence-backed and experiential, and it progressively helped me re-connect to my own sense of confidence and self assuredness that had deteriorated in the previous couple of years. That gift was priceless, and as Richard says in this chat, our careers can be re-framed as 50 year investments, or opportunities to get lost. I’m grateful I took the action when I did, and it’s changed my life.

Richard has worked with thousands and thousands of people. From helping teenagers think about what they might to be when they’re adults, to those experiencing redundancies, to Executives and whole teams.

I need to offer a warning and apology for some of the sound quality in this recording - a technical problem has infected my equipment which I’m confident will be fixed in the next couple of weeks with some tweaks and replacements, but I’m sorry if it inconveniences or affects the quality of your listening experience.

Richard changed my life in my late teens through our sporting connection, then again in my late 20s when I first received his career coaching support, and again 15 months ago. I hope you take from this some of what I have, and it helps to launch you into a glorious 2025.

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Welcome to the show and my podcast where I endeavour to have long form in depth conversations that matter - or at least I hope they matter - with thought and action leaders who are making positive change across business, health, society and politics.

Today’s episode is the second and final part of the finding nature 2024 anthology. I hope you managed to enjoy the first part reprising some of your favourite guests or coming across some new ones, and the second part is more of the same.

The intent of these two episodes is to create a little inspiration, to help you set the right mood and mindset to reflect on the year that’s nearly passed and better contemplate what may lay ahead for you, and launch you into 2025 in a state of clarity and optimism to ponder what it is you are going to pursue.

These two episodes are my way of saying just saying that I hope you get to enjoy the new year period and to offer a huge thank you. Thank you for investing in my work. Thank you for being an incredible audience, for honouring the guests and taking on board their messages and calls to action. I love this show and I love the privilege of serving you all with a new episode each and every week, and I promise the year ahead is going to be even more of what 2024 launched for me. I really cannot wait for what is to come, to connect with so many of you, to learn from so many of you and to know that there is a huge and growing community of people who are looking to leave a mark in the pursuit of more just, equitable and beautiful futures.

The Animals Do Not Want To See Us - Satyajit Das On The Perils of Wild Quests
Dr Vanessa Pirotta is Forging New Paths: Humpbacks, Drones and Creating What Doesn't Exist
Sisyphus is No Obstacle - Chris Nunn on the Clarity to Catalyse
Tammi Miller Will See You Now: Work Addiction, Identity and The Perils of Pursuing It All
Internal Integration, External Actualisation - Mark Rowland is Here Now
The Voice of A Community: Nicolette Boele on Local Politics, Local Change and the Potential For A Real Shift
We're Allies On The Same Team - Davina Rooney and Jorge Chapa Make Friends and Change Buildings
From Housing Dream To Inalienable Right - Kevin Bell is Reframing For Dignity
The Slow Road to Gender Equality: Catherine Fox Wants to Break The Delusion and Realise The Power of Intention and Imagination
Building and Maintaining A Body To Live, Work & Play In with Dr John Panagopoulos
Changes Requires Changing - Grounding Helicopter Thinking With Pablo Berrutti
Climate Councillor Lesley Hughes on the Race To Catastrophe and The Power of Unity

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Hey everybody, how are you all doing. Happy holidays to all the good people out there, and welcome to or welcome back to the Finding Nature podcast. I do my best on this show to have meaningful, insightful and valuable conversations with people who have made it their mission in life to make a positive difference and to bring their stories to you.

My name is Nathan Robertson-Ball, this is my show and thank you for listening. Thank you for subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, thank you for spreading the word with your friends or colleagues, or maybe today over the lunch or dinner table with your functional and dysfunctional relatives. Welcome to my first best of series, an anthology of the year that was 2024 on this show, where I feature excerpts from some of my favourite conversations.

As many of you know, I got the Finding Nature show on the road this year after harbouring ideas and hopes and fantasies of heading off on a personal/professional quest to meet with, learn from and create a platform for courageous and persevering people who are making a difference in the pursuit of more just, safe and beautiful futures.

As a podcast I attempt to reflect my own breadth of interests and passions across sustainability, wellbeing, meaning-seeking, personal evolution health and business, and I pride myself on inviting on a wide range of perspectives, experiences and mindsets onto the show. To have now hosted and published 42 episodes since starting in March, I’m experiencing both awe and surrealism. It’s been such an incredible experience beginning Finding Nature - an act that has brought me personal liberation, new relationships and friends, experiences I couldn’t have imagined and it’s a real pleasure to be bringing you the first annual best of series.

What You Don't Know Does Harm You - Nina Jankowicz Is The Valiant We Need
Reaching for What's Possible - Emma Pocock's Vision for Sport as a Vehicle for Change
Indigenous-Designed Finance - Bruce Chapman and Chris Andrew Want To Reflect Reality
The Open Secret Change Relies Upon & Sustainabilators Have Missed - Rob Rogers
Subversion and Exertion - Jess Miller Wants to Have Fun, Win Hearts and Change Cities
The Word For World Is Ocean: James Bradley On The World In The Ocean
Designing Transitions for Sustainable and Equitable Futures - Madness or Mission with Cameron Tonkinwise
Adapt or Lose - Kate Cotter Has Inconvenient Truths
What Needs to Change for Sustainability to Work - Lee Stewart is Throwing Down The Gauntlet
Blowing The Whistle on the Climate Crisis - Regina Featherstone Won't Go With The Flow

Alrighty, I really hope you enjoyed that one, the best of finding nature 2024, part one. I’ll be back in a few days with part two. If you think others out there would enjoy any of those episode snippets, I’d appreciate you sharing on.

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