Finding Nature

A topic and issue I’ve been grappling with is artificial intelligence. It’s a space that has dominated so much in 2024 - news, investment, executive wish lists, fears, hopes, fantasies. Personally, I’ve just been overwhelmed and it’s a topic that’s allowed me to find compassion and empathy for all the folks out there that aren’t consumed and living the issues of environmental protection, human rights and sustainability more broadly - this stuff is technical, expansive and has a lexicon all of its own. Artificial intelligence is something I want to explore more in 2025, but to begin today’s guest is Lee Schofield.

Lee is an unusual character in the realm of AI - and not just because she’s a woman, but she's a trained economist, and her professional career has spanned investment, sales, marketing, product management and strategy. I first came across Lee at a conference in 2023 where she spoke about AI, responsible technology, and the shift from the attention economy to that of the intimacy attention. She spoke like a normal person - not an acolyte of a general purpose technology that has arrived to reshape every element and aspect of our lives for the better. She wasn’t banging a big drum proclaiming that AI was the messiah to the climate crisis, the plastic crisis, the inequality crisis, the cancer crisis, the loneliness crisis.

That take as a regular person was important for me to better understand, because if a non tech bro who was interested in AI as a tool for calendar optimisation or sales closing uplift could learn about, build an understanding of and then communicate about the overwhelming and often confronting world of AI, it helped me realise I had somewhere closer to home that was more than a listening or viewing experience. So this episode is one where I have basically no idea about the content - which hopefully is unusual. Its intent is to help me and hopefully you as well begin to learn about this big and broad and strange and bombastic and daunting and auspicious technology.

OK Lee - she offers the value of curiosity, of taking time, the necessity for the beginner’s mind, and the potential learning and growth that comes with a healthy dose of humility. I certainly need it so I remain more firmly in the realm of learning and scepticism as opposed to cynicism and sarcasm.

A heads up that this is the last interview format of the pod for 2024. Over the coming weeks I’m going to release a version of a best of that offers moments and glimpses from many of the wonderful and extraordinary guests who’ve graced Finding Nature this year. I’m really looking forward to it, and if you’re new to the show you’re in for a treat and if you’re a loyal listener get prepared to re-engage with some of your favourite listens.

We’ll be back on the first of January with a very special guest who is the perfect person to help you and I think about the year ahead, the year gone and whatever may lay ahead for all of us. I’m excited to be bringing all of this to you, so please hit that subscribe button and share it around.

Until then, wishing you a safe and satisfying festive period. Thanks for listening.

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Today’s guest is the indomitable Catherine Fox. A woman of such immense fierceness, incisive analytical powers and a mastery of craft that has led to authoring or co-authoring six books. Catherine was awarded a Medal of the Order of Australia in 2022 for significant service to journalism, gender equality and diversity. Catherine’s career is nothing short of phenomenal - beyond the books and order of Australia medal, she wrote for the Australian Financial Review for more than two decades, editing their Corporate Women column, was awarded a Walkley award for women’s leadership in media in 2017. While at the AFR she helped to establish the 100 women of influence awards, and was named as one in 2018, has been a gender equality advisor to the Australian defence force and sits on the Australians investing in women board. Time with her was nothing short of an honour.

Her latest book, Breaking the Boss Bias - How to Get More Women Into Leadership is an essential read. The reality check Catherine lays out in this book affected me, and it’s something the men listening to this in particular would be well suited and recommended to go out and get immediately. The book struck me for two primary reasons: the first being how delusional progress on gender equality has been and remains in Australia and around the world. And secondly how relatable I found Catherine’s work to be to every other realm of sustainability from climate inaction to biodiversity loss and species extinction to housing unaffordability and the degradation of trust in our society. Catherine’s works paints a picture within a picture and it’s a tormenting one. Never have so many been aware of and attempting to engage in any and all issues that would deliver more equitable and sustainable futures, yet the empirical evidence and data shows that slow gains hard ear have been and are slipping. This is depressing and dispiriting information, yet also necessary. Crisis and disaster - whether that is gender inequity, the climate, housing - can only be approached in my mind if there is a shared and collective appreciation of the truth. A reckoning that at its heart is about becoming and being honest with reality. Catherine’s work for decades has been about exactly this, and it was enlightening and agitating to both read her book and to spend this time with her.

Thank you for listening today, I appreciate it and don't take your precious time for granted.

If you enjoyed this episode or any other, please offer a rating as the algorithms appreciate that type of interaction, share the show with friends, colleagues and on social media - tag me in with your comments - and subscribe.

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Cameron Tonkinwise is back on the show today. The first repeat guest which is fun and exciting for me, but also because he is someone who I think more than anyone I’ve met in my career deeply understands and seeks to learn about and apply novel and innovative ways by which change happens.

Cameron is a Professor of Design at the University of Technology Sydney, and has a storied career here and in the United States at some of the world’s greatest design schools. Few have influenced me as much as Cameron so to get him back after his recent annual lecture at the School of Visual Arts in New York City was a pleasure.

We chat about the disintegration of support and help from private and state entities, the challenges everyday people face when trying to take part in the transition to more sustainable and safe futures - everything from car purchasing to understanding the risks climate change poses to their home and health. We also get into how this year has affected me - Cameron pushes me in exploring what I’ve learnt from getting Finding Nature to now which does feel a little self-centred, but it was nice to share about my own experience of this effort and endeavour.

Thank you for listening today, I appreciate it and don't take your precious time for granted.

If you enjoyed this episode or any other, please offer a rating as the algorithms appreciate that type of interaction, share the show with friends, colleagues and on social media - tag me in with your comments - and subscribe.

The rest of the year's events are all listed and you can get your ticket or tickets by heading to  humanitix.com and searching for finding nature - hit follow so that you get automatically notified of listings and access to ticket sales. The end of year party is on the 18th of December, so if you’re in Sydney and you haven’t got your ticket yet, I’d love to see you there for a fun time.

One last place you can sign up is at  findingnature.substack.com where each month I publish a series of contributions from other professionals working in the sustainability and impact fields on what motivates them, their philosophies and how that informs their daily lives. The latest edition came out last week on the topic of hope. It’s really hit a nerve - people have contacted me to say they’ve been brought to tears, others have asked me if I’m ok, and some have expressed how they've taken hope from the strength of others. The privilege of helping to tell the stories of others is a remarkable gift, and I love to share these so please go check out them out.

What comes out in December is still to be decided so Til next time here on the show, thanks for listening.

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Today's guest is a very wonderful privilege to be bringing to you - Lesley Hughes. Lesley is one of Australia's most distinguished and recognised experts on climate change. Beginning her career as an ecologist where she studied the role ants played in dispersing seeds across landscapes, she turned her attention to studying the climate and its impacts on biodiversity in the early 90s. She was a lead author of the 4th and 5th Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change reports - including being part of the IPCC group who were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2007. She was appointed a Climate Commissioner under the Gillard Government, helped found the Climate Council where she remains a Director and Councillor. A Professor Emerita in Biology and Pro-Chancellor at Macquarie University. Lesley has published over 200 scientific papers, she's a Ted speaker and is now a member of the Federal Climate Change Authority. Just to give you a flavour of her remarkable career and life.

Lesley is someone who has made an incredible contribution to humanity's understanding of climate change, in particular how it has, is and will affect human and non human species and ecosystems. This was a true honour for me.

I found this conversation incredible - from the early years of her career conducting research and pushing for public awareness of this problem, to the hopeful years of the 2000s when substantive action seemed possible and likely, to the toxicity and insanity of the early 2010s as someone who had a front row seat on the emergence and escalation in Australia's climate wars, to how she works to stay healthy and hopeful in the face of such despair and grief. It struck me how so much of what has been vital to Lesley has been unity with her own tribe, the sense of belonging and vulnerability that comes with working together, that hope is more than a feeling but about building groups that can take collective action together. Lesley's stories are characterised by courage and perseverance, something many of us are required to exhibit on a daily basis doing this type of work.

The rest of the year's events are all listed and you can get your ticket or tickets by heading to  humanitix.com and searching for finding nature - hit follow so that you get automatically notified of listings and access to ticket sales.

One last place you can sign up is at  findingnature.substack.com where each month I publish a series of contributions from other professionals working in the sustainability and impact fields on what motivates them, their philosophies and how that informs their daily lives. October's theme was help, and the next edition that is coming out this Saturday morning is on the theme of hope.

With everything occurring in our world at the moment, and with the latest COP fresh in our consciousness, where else is there to go but to Lesley herself - “hope has to be a strategy.”

Til next time, thanks for listening.

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Today's guest is Tammi Miller - a Certified Practising Counsellor registered with the Psychotherapy and Counselling Federation of Australia. She works with people to improve mental wellbeing, improve health literacy and looks to facilitate a path towards happier, healthier and more mindful ways of living. I dare say a lot of us could benefit from this type of work.

I've wanted to get Tammi on the show for a few months, so when the chance came up after reading her book Bare Therapy I jumped at it. It's reasonable to expect that many of us can struggle with our relationship to work when so much of the news and information we're exposed to is doomish and dread-inducing. Working in the fields of sustainability, climate action and social impact is exhausting and painful, and burnout is common. I have certainly struggled with maintaining my stability and wellbeing over the years, and it's felt shaky again the past few months working solely in the science and impacts of a changed and changing climate.

Tammi is on the show to chat about identity, self worth, work addiction, meaning, the pursuit of it all and the perils of the pursuit of it all. Doing the inner work is essential I believe to all of us, helping to reveal with another what we cannot see for whatever reason, to identify new insights and give strength for an evolution of our existence to help align our meaning and dreams with the actions we can take every day, every moment.

The rest of the year's events are being listed regularly - we've got three coming up in the next month and I hope to see as many of you at them as possible - head to humanitix.com and search for finding nature - hit follow so that you get automatically notified of listings and access to ticket sales.

One last place you can sign up is at  findingnature.substack.com where each month I publish a series of contributions from other professionals working in the sustainability and impact fields on what motivates them, their philosophies and how that informs their daily lives. The most recent edition was published on the topic of help - the obvious necessity that it is for me, you and everyone else, but also the difficulty and torment it can bring up in exhibiting vulnerability and honesty when it's asked for or accepted. Entirely relevant in the context of this episode with Tammi.

November is about hope at Finding Nature, and with Tammi on the show and all we spoke about and the work of change making, this quote from Lori Gottlieb stands out “Uncertainty, I'm starting to realise, doesn't mean the loss of hope - it means there's possibility. I don't know what will happen next - how potentially exciting!”

Til next time, thanks for listening.

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Hello earthlings, my name is Nathan Robertson-Ball and welcome to or welcome back to the finding nature show. What a week it's been on planet earth too. Election results, the beginning of the latest COP kicking off in an authoritarian oil state, the abandonment of a peace process in the Middle East, but at least the Joint Committee on Corporations and Financial Services - that is, the astonishing malpractice of big four accounting and consulting firms - final report is in and its 40 recommendations are designed to - and I quote - lead to a comprehensive overhaul of the regulatory framework that defines how auditing and consulting firms are allowed to operate. Maybe some good news.

My point is that it's been pretty bloody difficult over the last week to find and hold onto hope and optimism for where this whole thing is going. One very bright spot though is the community independent movement here in Australia. I absolutely love this model, putting communities back at the heart of campaigning and politics as opposed to divisive and inane bickering that seems to dominate the two party system here and elsewhere. The shift in political representation at the last Federal election was unprecedented, and it's fair to say that with the way the past three years have gone the push from these remarkable individuals and their community operations will hopefully deliver more high quality people to parliament.

Nicolette Boele joins the show today to chat about all of that plus much more - she is irrepressible, vivacious and determined. Nic also fundamentally changed the direction of my life when she employed me back in 2011. Now she is running for the second time in the Sydney electorate of Bradfield in an effort to unseat the incumbent Liberal representative - a seat where only five white men have ever held this electorate. At the 2022 election she delivered the largest electoral swing in the country of more 16%, and for the first time in history Bradfield became a marginal seat.

I have great hope in the community independent movement because it offers a clear and positive alternative to the dominant party system in Australia. Recent weeks again have demonstrated the low trust and distaste many across the country have for the current political dynamic and the ways by which individual politicians seem to be personally benefitting. Here and abroad democratic political systems are malfunctioning, which is painful but transitions and change are. Statis is comfortable, but in a context where we know major changes are required, we should accept and welcome the discomfort as we shift to whatever is hopefully to come that ushers in a more safe, more just and more beautiful future.

On the US election result I've been surprised that people are surprised. Surprised that people think Trump winning is some fatal blow to global climate action when emissions have been increasing under the democrats and always have. Surprised that some people are disappointed or devastated when they aren't actively involved in any version of civic engagement or politicking - from protests to boycotts to attending local government meetings to participation in campaigns to even donating money. It's as if everything we want will just fall into our lap, as if who you think are the opposition are as apathetic and passive in their engagement as we can be. They're not. They're active, they're organising, they're taking part. Regardless of the politics of that group, I respect that they do the work. Power lies with those that show up. The showing up is what matters. And that is why the community independent movement offers me such encouragement. They work - they do real things with real people in real life. They're not only posting online after a loss, they're not only lamenting from their ivory towers, they're not expecting an outcome without doing the work - it is devoid of entitlement. It is humble, it is movement creating, building and shifting, a

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Dr Vanessa Pirotta is a whale scientist, an author, an educator, an entrepreneur and a social media sensation. I read Vanessa's book recently - Humpback Highway - and was captivated by the stories of her work and research in the presence of these majestic and remarkable creatures. I remember visiting beaches in Sydney during the humpack's migratory seasons and being amazed by catching glimpses of their existence out at sea. Over the last thirty years humpbacks have continued to recover their population numbers right around the world - a rare species conservation success story.

Vanessa is one of Australia's most recognisable scientists through the work she does both on social media and regular tv appearances. In the last couple of months she was awarded the Winner of the Emerging Leader in Science category of the 2024 Women’s Agenda Leadership Awards, hosted the Prime Minister’s Prizes for Science for the second time and was a finalist in the Celestion Eureka Prize for Promoting Understanding of Science. Vanessa is certainly someone on the move, and getting to spend all this time with her and get to know her a little beyond the whale research and incredible encounters she's had with them was an honour.

With all the chat recently in corporate and government circles about the great utopian vision of nature positive, I couldn't help but reflect on the depth and quality of Vanessa's knowledge of a few species that call the ocean home and its relevance to these other conversations. The work done to recover some whale populations here and around the world hasn't come through fantasy nature repair bills or biodiversity markets, but the role of science based protections and restrictions on human behaviour supported by effective enforcement mechanisms. Vanessa's work in helping us better understand whales, their health and their lives points to a broader opportunity for how humans by in large need to get out of the way of non human species and focus on these types of initiatives as opposed to the financialsation and commodification of nature on a species by species basis.

What an experience this was. Vanessa is clearly a rising star, and to hear about the radical transformation her life has undergone in just five years was remarkable and testament to her tenacity, passion and strength. It reminded me that it's important to step back and contemplate not so much what we can achieve just today, or this week, but over the course of an entire year, five years, a decade. This path is a long one, one without end, and Vanessa is forging one that hasn't existed before.

The November edition of the newsletter is on the theme of Hope - and with Vanessa and her work in understanding whales, I was reminded of the remarkable life and work of Sylvia Earle who for more than 60 years has been researching and communicating about the oceans of this planet. “I hope for your help to explore and protect the wild ocean in ways that will restore the health and, in so doing, secure hope for humankind. Health to the ocean means health for us.”

Til next time, thanks for listening.

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Ann Austin joins the show today, and it's a great pleasure and a lot of fun. Ann is someone I've known for well over a decade now, and she's been plying her trade and craft in the corporate sustainability field for more than two decades. From when saying the word was met with either confusion or scorn back in 2004 to where things are at today. I like to think the scorn is now largely gone, but the confusion certainly remains for many - what do you mean sustainability means changing? Ann and I get into that today, her dedication to attempting to be and being a change agent, learning the art and science of what that involves and how her commitment to building healthy relationships has been a critical component of her working philosophy.

I have come to anticipate and enjoy these types of conversations with people who have been in the field and on the frontlines of internal organisational change efforts. I find solace and relief in their experiences as it allows me to better appreciate and realise that it hasn't been and isn't just me in a state of what feels like constant struggle to get these enormous systems and machines out of states of inertia and towards positive and hopeful action. I learnt plenty from Ann in this chat, much like I did in similar ones with Lee Stewart, Cameron Tonkinwise and Jess Miller. So much of my experience this year has been in the imperfect and unique ways by which everyone in this community is attempting to do different versions of the same things - attempting to get others on the bandwagon to go from unsustainable daily practices and dangerous futures to sufficient daily practices and healthy futures.

The rest of the year's events are being listed regularly - head to humanitix online and search for finding nature - hit follow so that you get automatically notified of listings and access to ticket sales, especially for the early bird savings opportunities.

One last place you can sign up is at  findingnature.substack.com where each month I publish a series of contributions from other professionals working in the sustainability and impact fields on what motivates them, their philosophies and how that informs their daily lives. The most recent edition was published on the topic of help - the obvious necessity that it is for me, you and everyone else, but also the difficulty and torment it can bring up in exhibiting vulnerability and honesty when it's asked for or accepted. It's a great edition, and personally I loved being able to refer to Wayne Junior Pearce about ten times. Give it a read, offer a comment and share it to those who you think might enjoy it.

The November edition is Hope - and with the next Cop rapidly coming down the content streams, I think it's something we might need a bit of. Ann spoke about the roll of planting seeds, and this quote from author Jessica Joyce is apt “hope starts with a seed.”

Til next time, thanks for listening.

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Today's guest is the greatest personification of the sustainability change maker I've met - Chris Nunn. Chris is what many of us likely aspire to be as professionals - deeply knowledgable, remarkably driven and incredibly hard working. It's easy to be impressed by the sheer depth and breadth of what he knows. But The more I've come to know Chris over the years, the more I've come to know him as a person. Warm, compassionate, generous and grounded.

With a career spanning law, consulting and large scale property businesses, Chris has also dedicated a large part of his working life to serving on many, many professional associations and industry groups as part of his own mission to enact meaningful and urgent change in the built environment. Beyond that though, Chris is a loving father and husband, passionate mountain biker and crossfitter, and a faithful friend.

In my own efforts this past year, Chris has been integral in acting as a trusted advisor and active contributor to Finding Nature being and becoming what it is, and it's a real pleasure to bring him and part of his own story, philosophy and experiences to this broader community.

One last place you can sign up is at  findingnature.substack.com where each month I publish a series of contributions from other professionals working in the sustainability and impact fields on what motivates them, their philosophies and how that informs their daily lives. The most recent edition was published on the topic of time and how it pervades and informs so much of our thinking. The six contributions are all poignant and perceptive, and I really loved getting this one out. Give it a read, offer a comment and share it to those who you think might enjoy it.

The next newsletter edition arrives in inboxes this Saturday, and with Chris in mind plus the theme of help, this quote from one of the greatest leadership and change practitioners over the last century John P Kotter is appropriate: 'Effective leaders help others to understand the necessity of change and to accept a common vision of the desired outcome.”

Til next time, thanks for listening.

Today's show is delivered with Altiorem. Use the code FindingNature10 to get your first month free on their gold and platinum plans.

Today's show is delivered with Gilay Estate. Add Finding Nature to your booking reservation for free food bundles.

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Thanks for listening. Follow Finding Nature on Instagram

Today's guest is Erin Billman, who is the Executive Director for the Science Based Targets Network. She was recently in Sydney from the US for the global nature positive summit and to share about her important and ground breaking work in setting standards and guidance on how organisations and cities need to play a role in halting and reversing the destruction of habitats and ecosystems, and the biodiversity all of these places hold and call home.

It's easy to be cynical about the enormity of the task we have at hand to deal with not just a changing climate but the broader set of planetary boundaries humanity seems committed to pass and erode. The climate is just one of these boundaries, and others include ocean acidification, freshwater change, biosphere integrity and novel entities. Erin and her team's work is about setting a trajectory across these planetary boundaries that act as the minimum to be done to restore balance and health to our ecological systems. considering the mostly failures of addressing runaway greenhouse gas emissions over decades, it is daunting to stare into eight other boundary systems and wonder how we do this. This work begins to help with this though.

This conversation with Erin was impactful and hopeful, and not because of the technical work being done to understand and lay out a path for meaningful action, but because of the way our inner health plays a critical role in broader industrial, societal and ecological transformations.

The creation of Finding Nature has been construed almost entirely as having a literal meaning - to find the natural world. It does have that implication, but the meaning of and reason for calling this endeavour Finding Nature is to do with the work required to be curious about, explore and discover our own true inner nature. To find connection to self in a world that is bombarding us with too much of everything. Distractions, crises, disasters, doom scrolling, to do lists, bucket lists. Beyond all of that though, beyond the material and the possessive, is something each and every one of us hold sacred that can help to light a path towards true connection, real peace and freedom from the bounds of fears, self centredness and external projections. If you had a greater sense of connectedness, peace and freedom, what would you be capable of? And what would more of us be capable of? The tension with the urgency and scale of action exists, but more racing and more urgency and more doing all the time may not be the path. I know that it isn't for me.

This chat with Erin ends up being almost entirely about this, which I didn't expect. I was keen to explore the disconnect with our relationship to the natural world and the SBTN in more detail, but that's not where this conversation goes, which I really love about it.

This month's newsletter is coming together and is on the theme of help - something I continue to realise that I need constantly for just about everything. It's easy for me to slip into being a human doing, and I need the help of those around me to bring me back to a steady state - to be present and playful. This conversation with Erin reminded me of the work of Eckardt Tolle, especially his seminal book The Power of Now. Here's a quote that I think is relevant to Erin, this episode and help “Get the inside right. The outside will fall into place.”

Until next time, thanks for listening.

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Today's show is delivered with Gilay Estate. Add Finding Nature to your booking reservation for free food bundles.

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