Finding Our Way

In this episode Larry and James talk about our now new relationship to God.

From the transcript...We’ve got a freedom in Christ. We don’t know what to do with our freedom. We’ll get a reset. We don’t know what to do with the reset. Everything I ever thought about how it was has been wrong. I’m having to relearn it all, and some of that’s been a slow wrangle. How do you operate without a hierarchy when all you’ve known is a hierarchy? How do you operate as equals, in mutual submission, when it’s never been modeled? You read about it in Jesus. You believe it’s what exists in the relationship with the Trinity. That’s where life was created. Life was born out of that relationship. And that’s the circle dance we’ve been brought into. But I can barely hear the music, and I still haven’t gotten in step with it just yet very well.

Eugene Peterson in The Message talks about the rhythms of grace—the unforced rhythms of grace. There you go. Spontaneous living. That’s what Norman Grubb called it. That’s what he called it abundant life, I guess Jesus called it life in the Spirit, as Paul called it: be filled with the Spirit. I think it’s just living life. Well, it’s not hard. It’s just unpracticed, unmodeled, unseen, not believed. It’s a question because everywhere you go, it’s law-based.

In this episode Larry and James discuss life in the kingdom of God.

From the transcript...Unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away, their minds were hardened. For until this day, the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ, the law.

I see what you’re saying now. But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. Nevertheless, when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

They turned to the Spirit. Yeah. Christ, the Spirit within, is Lord. Yeah, yeah. It’s like you’re looking in the wrong direction.

In this episode Larry and James talk about living life in the kingdom of God, NOW!

From the transcript...

I am fascinated by the number of things that come up in our mind when we do stuff like that. Contrary to what we're attempting to do, it seems to be all the reasons why you can't.

Oh, yeah. Which is adversarial thoughts. Mm-hmm. You can use that phrase. Yep. Yep.

When the truth is, everything that hinders us from living in health, wholeness, and happiness—did I get everything ?—health, wholeness, and happiness. Everything that hinders us from living there has been removed.

Yes. Through the cross, through the incarnation, crucifixion, death, burial, resurrection, and new life has come and is ours.

Yeah. It's a new quality of life, a new way of being human. Healthiness, wholeness, and happiness. Humanity, yeah. That's good. That's what we were created for.

Yes. Healthiness, wholeness, and happiness. They all come under the abundant life that Jesus came to give. In some sense, those were the idea behind Shalom.

Oh, come on now, preach to them. In the Old Testament, the word shalom for peace had that idea of wholeness.

In this episode Larry and James discuss living life in relationship to our Father.

From the transcript...

Well, for me, when I even hear what's the metrics of relationship, I just stiffen and bristle.

Yeah, it's rules. Yeah. It's a law of language.

But I don't know how to have conversations that don't end up there or that doesn't use those terms. I guess that's what Jesus said. A good teacher, he brought out of his treasure things old and new. I got a lot of that old law language in me. I just don't have much new love language left to use that seems to satisfy me anyway.

I got some resources right here. I'll do a little plug here for Robin Smit. Her book, It Is Finished. Just read the back cover and I might read a quote and talk about it. She says, What if 2,000 years ago was the catalyst that changed everything? What if Hosea and Isaiah saw something that we haven't fully grasped?

Yeah. This book is full of stuff. She says here, and I'm just pulling a quote out of nowhere: This chapter is under chapter 1, actually, Understanding Paul. But here, listen to what she says. I think it might go along with what we've been talking about: The Father has never looked at humanity through the lens of the fall.

From the transcript...

Well, for me, when I even hear "what's the metrics of relationship," I just stiffen and bristle. Yeah, it's rules. Yeah. It’s a law kind of language.

But I don't know how to have conversations that don't end up there, or that don’t use those terms. I guess that's what Jesus said—a good teacher brings out of his treasure things old and new. I’ve got a lot of that old law language in me. I just don't have much new love language left… at least not language that seems to satisfy me anyway.

I’ve got some resources right here. I'll do a little plug here for Robin Smith. Her book It Is Finished — just read the back cover, and I might read a quote and talk about it.

She says, "What if 2,000 years ago was the catalyst that changed everything? What if Hosea and Isaiah saw something that we haven't fully grasped?"

Yeah. This book is full of stuff. She says here — and I'm just pulling a quote out of nowhere:

Welcome to Finding Our Way.

This is from Chapter 1, actually, “Understanding Paul.” But here — listen to what she says — I think it might go along with what we've been talking about.

From the transcript...

So, I grew up talking about this self-giving God.

Yeah. Eternally dead to the possibility of choosing anything other.

How do we learn to walk in that, to walk with Him?

Well, one, we're just now waking into the fact that that's who He really is.

And then two, we realize that we're made in that same image.

But because He's given us this agency of choice… yeah.

Am I going to always choose as He always chooses?

Yeah. Because I don't think it's that He can't choose — He just doesn't.

Yeah. I realize it's God who cannot lie. Well, He can't lie or He won't lie?

Yeah. It might be semantics, or... I don't think He can lie. His character is such that He will not lie.

Yeah. I don't know how you say that without it again sounding like He doesn't have choice.

If I were a betting man, I would wager that choosing other-loving, self-giving — choosing that as God — that's who God is. I would bet that's where life is.

It's the only place life is. The other would have to be death.

Yeah, that's those two trees.

Yeah. But we don't really think that. Maybe we haven’t gotten that revelation.

There's always a struggle against the choice.

In this episode Larry and James talk about the nature of love.

From the transcript...

Well, yeah, he was talking about, like, God's—primal self. Yeah, that's the way he said it. Here we go. Let's see. A self desires to please itself, to express itself, and so on. How does God, the primal self, do that?

Yeah. He says here—yeah, that's his words—by the begetting of his Son to be the object of his love. And the Son receiving and returning the love of the Father. And the Spirit of the Father and the Son proceeding forth to express the same love nature in all creation.

Yeah, he's trying to describe that Trinitarian dance of Father, Son, and Spirit. So he's not—I don't think he's necessarily trying to say before time there was a time that God begat his Son. In other words, God was alone in himself. I don't think that's what he's trying to say.

I don't think so either. Because over here, he says, for God is the eternal three.

In this episode Larry and James discuss the celebration that has already started!

From the transcript...

Matthew 7, 24: Therefore, whoever hears these sayings of mine and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock.

That's a conclusion to the Sermon on the Mount. He hears and does. We're talking about hearing—learning to hear from God. We've got to talk about doing what you hear. Because that's just, I think most of us struggle hearing. Yeah. And then even when we do hear, we struggle doing. Yeah.

But that's part of the relationship. And that's what Jesus was trying to tell us, that when we hear and do, we're like the man that builds his house on the rock. That's the wise way to live. That's the better way to do. Because the storm's coming, period. The storm came both to the wise man and the foolish man.

So these are just some questions I have thinking about that. Jesus actually was talking to those—his hearers. Yeah. So he meant what he was saying when he said it to them. But the Sermon on the Mount.

In this episode Larry and James rehearse the different understandings of certain words.

From the transcript...

That's so wonderful. That's all you ever record.

I think I told you when I was out in Atlanta.

Of course, I went with Herb everywhere, my co-pastor, because he was from there. And it took me, and I always prided myself in kind of having my bearings, being able to get around, know where I'm going, how to get back, all that stuff.

Well, I was having trouble getting orientated out there. And, of course, it's a big city. Everything's new. Nothing familiar. Everywhere I go is a new journey. And I'd been going with him, and I'm trying to remember. I got to noticing we'd go back someplace, and I'm in my head thinking, okay, we should go down here and turn to the right.

Well, he don't turn. I'm like, that's the way we went last time. I think. Maybe not.

Finally, after I was there for a few months, finally realized. And I said, hey, now this is the way we came. He said, I know it. He said, I never liked to go the same way twice.

He wasn't thinking about you trying to learn.

Yeah, and that's what I told him. I said, man, I appreciate that. I kind of like it too. But I said, I'm trying to learn my way around. I don't need to go a different way every time. I need to go the same way a few times until I get that down.

Yeah.

Larry and James talk about the wonder of that which is ours in Christ!

From the transcript...

It's our life. We're one. Our union with Him.

I'm going to just string these three verses together. I know I read two of them earlier, but probably all three of them. Read them all over again.

Yeah. He says, Do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

I think a better translation of that baptism, an understanding in this context, would be united. You were united with Christ in His death.

Could I say, or add to that — you are immersed in Christ? Like plunged into, submerged into?

Yep. Which obviously is a union, because you're engulfed in Christ.

If One died for all, then all died.

Yeah. All right, well, okay. Go back. The first scripture you read — what's the first two words? Or the first few words?

Do you not know?

Okay, there it is. All right, that's our problem. We don't know what's happened.

Okay.

Carry on. The third scripture was in Colossians: For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.