Scott Doggett spent 30 years in corporate America — first running hotels and resorts in hospitality operations, then leading learning and development teams up to vice president. He was, by every external measure, successful. Titles. Awards. Promotions. The ladder, climbed. Then came the layoff at the end of 2023. His first in 30 years.

He gave himself the six months of his severance package to figure out what came next. He tried consulting. He taught college classes. He worked with a Native American tribe in Alabama. Nothing sparked. On the exact six-month anniversary of the layoff, he had what he describes as a mini panic attack — the realization that he was no closer to his purpose than the day he was let go.

That night he prayed and surrendered. The next morning, the first email in his inbox was a LinkedIn job posting for a director role at a Christian nonprofit — a role that described, almost word for word, everything he had spent the last decade building. He applied. He got a call back the same day. He got the job. Nine months later, he was laid off again.

On Episode 237 of Fine is a 4-Letter Word, Scott Doggett tells host Lori Saitz the full story: the values from a small New England town, the 30 years of go-go-go that never left room to ask the real questions, the wilderness journey, the two layoffs, the servant leadership he witnessed at the nonprofit that changed everything, and the movement he is now building through National ALD to humanize workplaces across America.

Along the way he shares the Gallup numbers that should alarm every business leader (only 30% of your workforce is fully engaged — and 20% are actively working against you), the boat analogy that reframes where leadership energy actually belongs, the Ebenezer Scrooge workshop experience that wakes leaders up to their own future, and why he believes the leaders of tomorrow will be defined not by what they know but by how well they connect.

Listen on all platforms:

Search "Fine is a 4-Letter Word" on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your shows. Subscribe so you never miss an episode.

Timestamps:

00:00 The water-instead-of-coffee opening and getting right into it

01:00 Values from a small New England town: every person is a priceless human being

02:00 Early leadership lessons that didn't fit: the big stick, the raised voice, the five-second experiment

03:30 How authoritarian leadership styles persist — and what is forcing them to change

05:30 Why employees today expect more: options, mobility, and the cost of turnover

06:00 The label problem: why calling people 'resources' and 'assets' changes how we treat them

07:00 The Gallup numbers: 30% engaged, 50% apathetic, 20% working against you

08:30 What that 50% actually wants — and why pizza parties aren't the answer

09:00 Scott's fine-but-not-fine moment: VP title, the layoff, and the six-month wilderness journey

10:30 Consulting, teaching college, the Alabama tribe, and nothing sparking

11:30 The panic attack on the six-month anniversary — and the prayer that night

12:00 The LinkedIn email the next morning and why he almost didn't open it

13:00 Getting the job, nine months at the nonprofit, and getting laid off again

14:00 What he saw at the nonprofit that he had never seen in 30 years of corporate life

15:00 Slowing down, morning walks, scripture, and learning to listen for answers

17:00 What to say to the leader still inside the corporate grind who thinks this doesn't apply to them

19:00 The mirror exercise: changing the label from 'resource' to 'priceless human being'

20:00 The boat analogy: three rowing hard, five barely dipping oars, two rowing backwards

22:00 Practical technique: pause, notice the label, change it to priceless — even in traffic

24:00 Great Aunt Frida in the blue Cadillac convertible, and the grace it teaches

26:00 AI, stress, and why the future of leadership is human connection

27:30 The national movement: nationalald.com, faculty across the country, public workshops

29:00 The Ebenezer Scrooge experience: past, present, future — what do you want to be known for?

30:30 Take care of your geese. The goose and the golden egg.

31:00 Eminem's Lose Yourself as the long-run pick-me-up song

Connect with Scott Doggett:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottdoggett/

Website: https://www.nationalald.com/

About the Show: Fine Is a 4-Letter Word is the show for leaders who are tired of pretending everything is okay. Host Lori Saitz brings on guests who get honest about what it really takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage. New episodes every week.

Subscribe so you never miss an episode, and if this conversation hit home, leave a review. It helps more leaders find the show.

Rob Scheer was thrown out at 18 with a trash bag.

He was the youngest of 10 children. His mother was married six times. His father beat him and his siblings, punching him in the bladder so repeatedly that by the time Rob joined the Navy, it ruptured. He had spent his senior year of high school homeless — sleeping in the bathroom of the taco restaurant where he worked, on beanbag chairs in the public library after closing, and on the floors of friends' homes. He barely graduated. He had no family to go back to. He had no picture to put on his bunk in boot camp except one of Tina Turner.

Then he became one of the most successful mortgage bankers in the country.

On Episode 237 of Fine is a 4-Letter Word, Rob Scheer sits down with Lori Saitz to share the full arc: the teachers who believed in him when no one else did, the Navy discharge that sent him hitchhiking down Route 7 with a Salvation Army suit and a fabricated resume, the mortgage industry boss who ripped that resume in half and told him he was the most honest person he had ever met, the 28-year banking career, and the moment he looked at his four children in designer clothes and realized he had raised entitled kids who had never learned empathy.

That realization led to Comfort Cases — a nonprofit that packs backpacks filled with brand-new essentials for children entering foster care on their first night. No more trash bags. Over 320,000 cases delivered to all 50 states, Washington D.C., Puerto Rico, and the United Kingdom. Three-month waiting list for volunteers. Published by Derek Jeter. Featured on The Ellen DeGeneres Show.

Rob also shares what it means to be a foster and adoptive father to five sons, including one adopted at 18 in an adult adoption. He talks about why empathy is not in our DNA and must be taught, what leadership actually looks like outside of a job title, and why a five-year-old named Grayson was the one who understood from the very beginning that every backpack needs a blanket.

Listen on all platforms:

Search "Fine is a 4-Letter Word" on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your shows. Subscribe so you never miss an episode.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 How Rob's team pitched this episode: "Anytime I can talk about foster care, I'm gonna do that"
• 01:30 The teachers who shaped him — not parents — and the book signing reunion with Mrs. Boley
• 05:00 Aging out of foster care at 18: the trash bag at the door, the youngest of 10
• 06:30 His mother's choices vs. her environment — and why Rob refuses to blur that distinction
• 07:30 Senior year homeless: the taco bathroom, the library beanbags, the school breakfast line
• 09:30 Joining the Navy to have somewhere to go — and being voted Honor Man at boot camp
• 11:30 The bladder rupture: 12 years of his father's abuse, and how the Navy discharged him
• 13:00 Hitchhiking down Route 7, the Salvation Army suit, and the fabricated resume
• 14:30 Confessing the lies to his boss — and the boss who ripped the resume and said "get back to work"
• 16:00 28 years in banking, mortgage companies across the country
• 17:00 Looking at four entitled children in designer clothes and realizing something had to change
• 18:00 What five-year-old Grayson said about the blanket in the backpack
• 19:00 320,000 cases delivered to all 50 states, DC, Puerto Rico, and the UK
• 19:30 Empathy is not in our DNA — it has to be taught
• 23:00 Derek Jeter published his memoir. The Ellen Show. Walking away from banking for purpose.
• 25:00 740 children enter foster care every day in the United States
• 25:30 Three-month volunteer waiting list, 40,000 cases this year, and the expansion plan
• 28:00 Leadership: not a title, not followers, not waiting for someone else to fix the problem
• 29:00 How you can help: used books, hotel toiletries, yarn for the women at Topeka Correctional Facility
• 31:00 The gecko/iguana/frog stuffy knitted by women at a Kansas prison — and Melissa Etheridge's role
• 32:00 Tina Turner's Simply the Best — the only picture he had in boot camp
• 32:30 How to reach Rob

Connect with Rob:

• Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-scheer-27482653/
• Website: https://comfortcases.org/

About the Show:

Fine Is a 4-Letter Word is the show for leaders who are tired of pretending everything is okay. Host Lori Saitz brings on guests who get honest about what it really takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage. New episodes every week.

Subscribe so you never miss an episode, and if this conversation hit home, leave a review. It helps more leaders find the show.

Jodi Scott fell off her bike. That's how Green Goo started.

Riding the same Texas road she rode every day, her laces caught in the spokes, and she looked up at an overgrown driveway leading to a white Southern colonial estate she'd somehow never noticed before. The next day, a for sale sign appeared. Her realtor grandmother told her she'd never qualify for the loan and that no one goes to Kyle, Texas. She bought it anyway.

That one bed and breakfast became four B&Bs, four wedding venues, and three event services companies. Then she got pregnant, found a first aid cabinet full of ingredients she couldn't justify, and called her mom and sister to start making plant-based salves in the kitchen — production eventually took over so completely they had to cook meals outside on camping equipment. Green Goo grew into a national retail brand.

Then came the pandemic, a sale to what looked like the right partner, and a federal raid on that partner that gave Jodi less than 24 hours to terminate her entire team — her mom, sister, husband, brother-in-law, and closest friends.

On Episode 236 of Fine is a 4-Letter Word, Jodi Scott tells Lori Saitz the full story: the military upbringing that shaped her values, the pivot from psychoneuroimmunology into entrepreneurship, the coach who wouldn't let her cancel her Monday session, and the two-year fight to buy Green Goo back. Plus how Taylor Swift's Ready For It became her boardroom pump-up song — a detail her 14-year-old daughter had to remind her of.

Listen on all platforms: search "Fine is a 4-Letter Word" on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your shows.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 How Jodi found the show and why she insisted on reaching out personally
• 01:30 Military upbringing: honor, integrity, commitment, and overdue library books
• 02:30 Her mother, the self-taught programmer who predicted mobile business in the third grade
• 04:00 Pre-med pivot: double major in biology and psychology, master's in health psychology
• 04:45 Psychoneuroimmunology: training physicians on the biopsychosocial model
• 06:30 Why international medical students were the most open to holistic thinking
• 09:30 The bike fall, the overgrown driveway, and the phone call to her grandmother
• 11:30 One bed and breakfast becomes four, plus four wedding venues and three other companies
• 15:00 A pregnant Jodi, a first aid cabinet full of chemicals, and the idea for Green Goo
• 16:30 Growing herbs in Idaho, drying them on screen doors, selling at farmers markets
• 18:00 Why they renamed the entire brand Green Goo — because customers kept calling it that
• 19:30 Plant-based first aid before plant-based was a category: the uphill battle with buyers
• 23:30 The pandemic pivot from retail to online, and why they almost did not survive
• 25:00 Selling the company to find a financial partner — and what happened next
• 26:30 The acquirer gets raided by the feds. 24 hours. Entire team terminated.
• 28:30 The kitchen table moment: running out of lip balm and getting emails from customers
• 30:30 The coach who refused the cancellation and started a mental fitness boot camp
• 32:30 Micro-meditations every three hours: how presence rebuilt her decision-making
• 34:30 Leadership advice: anticipate the worst contractually, invest in mental fitness
• 36:30 Taylor Swift's Ready For It as her boardroom prep song, revealed by her daughter
• 37:30 Where to find Jodi: greengoo.com and LinkedIn at Jodi Scott

Guest Bio:

Jodi Scott grew up in a military family, drawing service and resilience from her father and reinvention from her self-taught programmer mother. After studying biology and psychology (plus a master's in health psychology) and training physicians in holistic care, a chance bike accident redirected her into hospitality — building four B&Bs and four wedding venues. A sketchy first aid cabinet during pregnancy inspired her, her mother, and sister to launch Green Goo, a plant-based first aid and skincare brand that grew from an Idaho herb garden into national retail. After a sale to Green Goo collapsed when the acquirer hit federal legal trouble, Jodi spent two years rebuilding — then bought the company back. She now runs Green Goo with her family in Colorado.

Connect with Jodi Scott:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodi-scott-7234331b8/
• Website: https://www.greengoo.com/

Jodi is open to connecting with people who reach out directly. About the Show: Fine Is a 4-Letter Word is the show for leaders who are tired of pretending everything is okay. Host Lori Saitz brings on guests who get honest about what it really takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage.

New episodes every week. Subscribe so you never miss an episode, and if this conversation hit home, leave a review. It helps more leaders find the show.

What do you do when you get offered the top job in your industry and you turn it down anyway? Will Steel did exactly that. He grew up in rural Yorkshire, delivering milk at the age of three alongside his mother, who ran the family's milk round for 40 years just to cover the grocery bill. He worked for a stonemason from age 12 to 16, digging graves and mending roofs. He talked his way into an engineering apprenticeship, earned two technician qualifications simultaneously, got into university, discovered the Royal Air Force Flying Club, and became an RAF pilot — something he describes as almost impossibly unlikely for someone with his background.

Then he joined the airlines. And hated it.

He calls commercial flying "like being a bus driver" — rigidly routed, waiting to get home, doing it for the paycheck and nothing else. When he discovered the Landmark Forum and realized he could make a real difference with people, he was offered the top role in UK aviation: flying long-haul 747-400s out of Heathrow for British Airways. At the same time, he was offered a job starting at the bottom in personal development work — with a 75% pay cut.

He took the pay cut.

On this episode of Fine is a 4-Letter Word, Will Steel — now a business coach, author of Free to Lead, and host of the Free to Lead podcast — talks with Lori Saitz about the values he was raised with, the career pivots that looked like madness from the outside, and the core problem he now spends his days solving: business owners who are working 65-75 hours a week, trapped inside their own companies, unable to delegate, and wondering why the business is not growing.

He also shares the practical tool he uses to help clients get their time back, the story of a car body shop owner who went from chasing $2.5M to landing a $23.5M acquisition offer, and why authenticity is not a feeling — it is a practice of catching yourself being inauthentic and telling the truth about it.

Listen on all platforms: Search "Fine is a 4-Letter Word" on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your shows. Subscribe so you never miss an episode.

Timestamps:

• [00:00] Will calls in from Costa Rica, about to go surfing after this
• [01:30] The values he was raised with — and delivering milk at three years old in Yorkshire
• [04:00] His mother's 40-year milk round and what his parents built from nothing
• [06:00] Hard work vs. working smart: how his thinking evolved
• [08:30] The car body shop owner who went from $2.5M to $23.5M in 12 months
• [11:00] The unlikely career path: stonemason, engineer, university, RAF pilot
• [14:00] Joining the airlines — and why it felt like being a bus driver
• [15:30] The Landmark Forum, the British Airways offer, and the 75% pay cut decision
• [18:00] "You can't get enough of what you don't really want"
• [20:00] Why business owners get stuck in the doing, and what it costs them
• [23:00] The 15-minute time audit tool that reveals where the hours actually go
• [25:00] The architect who spent 7.5 hours a week driving kids to school — and got it all back
• [27:00] Delegation done right: pay for outcomes, not doing
• [31:00] What the Saudi Arabia pharmaceutical executive learned about his own communication
• [32:00] Authentic leadership: it is not a feeling, it is a practice
• [34:00] Rock 'n' Roll Star by Oasis — and why Will almost became a singer instead
• [36:30] How to reach Will: willsteel.com | Book: Free to Lead | Podcast: Free to Lead

Guest Bio:

Will Steel grew up in rural Yorkshire, England, in a family built on work ethic and honesty. His mother ran a milk delivery round for 40 years to cover household expenses while his father worked in a tractor factory. Will worked alongside a stonemason from age 12, completed dual engineering apprenticeships, earned a degree in electronic engineering, and discovered flying through his university's Royal Air Force squadron. He became an RAF pilot, joined commercial aviation, and then walked away from a British Airways 747 captain position to pursue work in personal development after attending the Landmark Forum. He has since spent 27 years coaching business owners and leading large-format programs across industries, helping them identify where they are stuck, recover their time, and grow their businesses by working less hours while generating substantially more. He is the author of Free to Lead and hosts a podcast of the same name.

Connect with Will Steel:

• Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/will-steel-business-coach-high-performance-transformation/
• Website: willsteel.com
• Book: Free to Lead

About the Show:

Fine Is a 4-Letter Word is the show for leaders who are tired of pretending everything is okay. Host Lori Saitz brings on guests who get honest about what it really takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage. New episodes every week.

Subscribe so you never miss an episode, and if this conversation hit home, leave a review. It helps more leaders find the show.

Candice Van Dertholen did not arrive at her work in energy healing by reading about it. She lived through it.

In this episode of Fine is a 4-Letter Word, host Lori Saitz sits down with energy practitioner Candice Van Dertholen for an unflinching conversation about single parenthood at 22, a Texas maximum security prison career she stumbled into out of financial desperation, an abusive marriage that escalated into a violent car ride with her children in the backseat, and the night she nearly took her own life — waking up in a hospital bed furious that she was still alive.

From Joyce Meyer's Battlefield of the Mind on a hospital nightstand to affirmations she wrote thousands of times before she even knew what affirmations were, Candice traces the slow, unglamorous, piece-by-piece rebuilding that took two years before she felt like herself again. She also shares the complicated grief of finding out both ex-husbands had died within the same year, and why disenfranchised grief rarely gets the space it deserves.

Now a practitioner who holds space for others in those same pivotal moments, Candice talks about why self-sabotage is almost always a story, why money in alignment multiplies, and what happens when we finally stop running from the relationship with ourselves.

Listen on all platforms:

Search "Fine is a 4-Letter Word" on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your shows. Subscribe so you never miss an episode.

Timestamps:

• [00:00] Introductions — Candice and Lori on mutual friend Chris Schembra and life in Charlotte
• [01:45] The values she was raised with: personal integrity and the discipline of non-judgment
• [03:00] Growing up between two worlds — her mother's nursing work with terminally ill children
• [06:00] Her mother's unrecognized PTSD and the compassion Candice finally found, decades later
• [08:30] Becoming a single parent at 22 and the judgment she faced in Texas
• [09:45] The unexpected detour: corrections officer at a Texas Level 5 max security prison
• [13:00] The abusive marriage — how familiar energy patterns kept her from seeing the signs
• [15:30] The violent car incident that involved her children and set off a CPS investigation
• [18:30] The night she nearly took her life and the hospital room that changed everything
• [20:00] The books, therapy, affirmations, and two-year rebuild that followed
• [22:00] Finding unexpected permission to leave through a hospital chaplain's words
• [24:00] Complex grief: losing both ex-husbands within a year
• [28:00] Burnout, 75 Hard, and the yoga studio that led her to energy healing
• [30:00] What to do when you feel stuck and unworthy of the next level
• [33:00] The song that gets her going: Ready or Not by Britt Nicole

Guest Bio:

Candice Van Dertholen is an energy practitioner whose path to healing work was forged through personal experience. A single mother of three from a young age, she has navigated poverty, domestic abuse, correctional work, burnout, and near-fatal crisis to arrive at a practice centered on helping others break the self-sabotaging patterns that keep them from the next version of themselves. She works with clients in pivotal transition moments and offers pay-it-forward sessions for those who cannot afford standard rates. She found her work in energy healing through a yoga studio in Virginia, where she met her first practitioner after years of seeking the missing piece in her healing journey. She and her husband are military family who have relocated multiple times across the US.

Connect with Candice:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/candicevandertholen/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/candice_elizabeth.co/

Candice also offers pay-it-forward sessions for those who need support but are working with limited means.

About the Show:

Fine Is a 4-Letter Word is the show for leaders who are tired of pretending everything is okay. Host Lori Saitz brings on guests who get honest about what it really takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage. New episodes every week. Subscribe so you never miss an episode, and if this conversation hit home, leave a review. It helps more leaders find the show.

Everte Farnell spent seventeen years married to a partner he now believes had borderline personality disorder, enduring verbal, emotional, and eventually physical abuse before everything came to a head in his own kitchen. In this conversation, he opens up about why men rarely report abuse, what changed the night his daughter stepped in, and how he rebuilt his health, his confidence, and his life from the ground up.

What You'll Learn

• Why a majority of domestic abuse incidents involve female aggression toward male partners, and why almost none of it gets reported
• How borderline personality traits can drive a partner to undermine the people closest to them out of fear of abandonment
• What it actually took for Everett to leave a marriage he had stayed in for years out of fear and outdated research about kids and divorce
• How losing over 100 pounds became part of Everett's recovery from years of stress eating and undiagnosed sleep apnea
• Why filing for a protective order as a man can come with its own uphill battle in the legal system
• How Everett went from believing the world was an emotional hellscape to seeing it as full of opportunity

Guest Bio

Everte Farnell grew up in the small town of Umatilla, Florida, and built a career as an entrepreneur, including scaling a roofing company to ten times its weekly sales in under sixteen months. After surviving a seventeen-year marriage marked by abuse, he rebuilt his life, lost over 100 pounds, and remarried into what he describes as the healthiest relationship of his life. He now shares his story to help others recognize and talk about abuse that often goes unreported.

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 — Introduction and Everett's background growing up in rural Florida

04:00 — The toxic beliefs about money Everett had to unlearn

06:00 — How Everett rewired disempowering beliefs over time

13:00 — Living with smiling depression and undiagnosed sleep apnea

14:00 — Seventeen years married to a partner with borderline traits

20:00 — Why Everett stayed longer than he should have

25:00 — The night everything changed in the kitchen

28:00 — The truth about domestic abuse against men

31:00 — How Everett became more empathetic and rebuilt his life

Connect with Everte Farnell:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/everte-farnell-aa77556/

Website: https://evertefarnell.com/

About the Show

Fine is a 4-Letter Word is a podcast about what happens when people stop pretending everything is fine and start telling the truth about what they are really going through. Host Lori Saitz brings on guests for honest conversations about the moments that changed everything.

Subscribe so you never miss a conversation that might change how you see your own story.

You're not failing because of lack of skill or effort. You're failing because of patterns you picked up before you were old enough to choose them. Dr. Kevin Mays, leadership coach and author of Lead Yourself First, built a career helping executives see that the behaviors driving their success are often the exact same ones quietly sabotaging what they're trying to build.

What You'll Learn

• Why childhood patterns like people-pleasing and humor as a deflection tool show up in the boardroom decades later
• How to shift from being run by unconscious programming to making intentional choices from a place of presence
• The difference between geographic disruption and internal disruption, and why the latter is the harder and more powerful path
• How to reprogram your subconscious using 'I am' statements rather than 'I would like' statements
• Why comfort is the true enemy of growth, and what to do about it when you're not at rock bottom
• What it really means to step into the void with no plan B and why that clarity can change everything

About the Guest:

Dr. Kevin Mays is a leadership coach, speaker, and author based in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Through his company, Upgrade Your Leadership, he works with executives and founders to uncover the unconscious patterns holding them back and develop the self-awareness needed to lead at a higher level. His book, Lead Yourself First, recently made the Amazon best-seller list.

TIMESTAMPS:

00:00 — Cold open and show introduction

01:25 — Welcome and breathing exercise before the call

03:36 — Kevin's upbringing in Michigan: the car company culture and what it programmed

05:22 — Birth order, family patterns, and the youngest child's drive for attention

08:11 — How Kevin began studying self-awareness and what opened that door

09:12 — The motorcycle trip: riding to the Pacific Coast until the bike broke down

12:50 — Aeronautical engineering, near-miss in the airplane, and choosing a different road

15:48 — Identity falling away piece by piece and the moment of real surrender

19:22 — How to strip away constraint without hitting bottom first

22:48 — Quitting his job, moving to Michigan, and committing with no plan B

27:06 — Overcoming early programming: affirmations, rewiring neural pathways, and the piano analogy

31:48 — Releasing constraint vs. replacing it: Kevin pushes back on 'brainwashing'

34:37 — Music, Rumi, and how Kevin finds presence and energy

35:18 — Lori's five key takeaways from the conversation

38:12 — Closing

Connect with Dr. Kevin Mays:

• Website: https://upgradeyourleadership.com/
• Book: Lead Yourself First (available on Amazon)
• Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-kevin-mays/
• Guest Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/maysleadership
• Kevin's hype song: Friday I'm In Love by The Cure

About the Show:

Fine Is a 4-Letter Word is the show for leaders who are tired of pretending everything is okay. Host Lori Saitz brings on guests who get honest about what it really takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage. New episodes every week.

Subscribe so you never miss an episode, and if this conversation hit home, leave a review. It helps more leaders find the show.

Scott Lackey grew up as a free-range kid roaming the woods and building forts, convinced he had all the time in the world. Then three questions from three people in the span of two weeks turned everything upside down. What followed was a winding path through the military, a failed invention, a Ponzi scheme, and a long list of promises he kept breaking to himself — until one sleepless night during Covid changed the trajectory of his life.

In this episode of Fine Is a 4-Letter Word, host Lori Saitz sits down with Scott to unpack the stories behind his upcoming book, including why crossing the finish line is never the actual victory, how military service wired him differently than the civilian world could handle, and why the Ironman he completed wasn't really about endurance at all.

Scott shares the moment he realized broken promises to himself were the root of his unrest, and why learning to listen to your inner voice, whether you call it God, instinct, or something else entirely, changes how you move through every challenge.

Key Topics Covered:

1. How Scott's free-range upbringing shaped his sense of adventure and created the blind spots that nearly derailed his early adult life
2. The two-week period where three questions from a coach, a teacher, and his father forced him to think about the future for the first time
3. How an Army commercial became the clearest sense of direction he had ever felt
4. Serving with the 1st Infantry Division in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait, and why four years of military service were irreplaceable
5. The Wire Dog invention he built in the desert, the $10,000 Ponzi scheme that ended the dream, and what those failures actually taught him
6. Why Scott believes the gifts are always in the pain, and how that principle shaped his leadership philosophy
7. The danger of taking advice from people who have nothing at stake in your decision
8. How broken promises to yourself erode self-trust, and the internal wake-up call that led him to register for the Ironman
9. The practices Scott uses to stay connected to his inner voice, including journaling, fasting, long workouts, and meditation
10. What the Ironman's question 'What are you willing to sacrifice?' ultimately revealed to him If you've ever felt stuck at 'fine' and couldn't put your finger on why, this conversation will hit close to home.

GUEST BIO: Scott Lackey Scott Lackey is a US Army veteran, entrepreneur, Ironman athlete, and author whose life story reads like a series of pivot points, each one forced by failure, chance, or a voice he couldn't quite ignore. He grew up in rural America, joined the Army after seeing a TV commercial that spoke to something he couldn't articulate, and served with the 1st Infantry Division across Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait.

After leaving active duty, Scott pursued an entrepreneurial dream built around an invention he'd prototyped in the desert, only to have it derailed by a Ponzi scheme. What followed was years of building, failing, learning, and ultimately creating something worth sustaining. His upcoming book draws on all of it, examining why failure and pain carry more lasting value than the victories people celebrate, and why the hardest promises to keep are often the ones made in private, to yourself.

Scott completed a full Ironman (140.6 miles) after a period of quiet internal reckoning during Covid, a decision he kept to himself for six weeks because he didn't yet trust himself to follow through. He's a husband, father, and dedicated student of what it means to live with integrity to your own inner compass.

Connect With Scott:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottlackey1/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thescottlackey/
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/Thescottlackey/
• X: https://x.com/thescottlackey

You may find some of the topics in his top 10 most requested keynotes of topical interest. Link on his website: https://scottlackey.com/speaking/

Another area of possible interest is his published short stories: https://scottlackey.com/published-work/

Subscribe to Fine Is a 4-Letter Word wherever you listen to podcasts.

Invitation from Lori:

This episode is sponsored by Zen Rabbit.

Smart business leaders know trust is the foundation of every great workplace. And in today’s hybrid and fast-moving work culture, trust isn’t built in quarterly town halls or the occasional Slack message. It’s built through consistent, clear, and HUMAN communication.

Companies and leaders TALK about the importance of connection and community. And it’s easy to believe your organization is doing a great job of maintaining an awesome corporate culture. Because you’ve got annual all-hands and open door policies, and “fun" team-building events.

But let's be real. Leaders who are serious about building real trust are finding better ways to strengthen culture, create connection, and foster community.

That's where I come in. Forward thinking companies are hiring me to produce internal/private podcasts. To bring leadership and employees together through authentic stories, real conversations, and meaningful connections. Think of it as your old-school printed company newsletter - reinvented for the modern workforce. I KNOW, what a cool idea, right?!

If you run, work for, or know of a company that wants to upgrade communication, facilitate connections, build community, and maintain culture, let's chat. Message me at [email protected].

Because when people feel heard, they engage.

Raised in a household steeped in integrity, respect, and love, Dr. Andrena Phillips credits her upbringing and the strong leadership modeled by her Marine father and telephone company manager mother for shaping her approach to life. Those early foundations became the fuel for a lifetime of showing up authentically, keeping her word, and encouraging others to live by values that go farther than any resumé line or professional accolade.

And Dr. Andrena carried all of that — through a nursing career, through raising three kids as a single mom, through earning her doctorate, through building a business that certifies coaches and develops leaders — into every chapter of her life.

She met her late husband in Walmart when she walked up to a tall, bald, hazel-eyed stranger and told him his wife was a lucky woman. He followed her to the hair gel aisle and told her he wasn't married. They were together from that moment on.

When he got sick, they had what she calls the "hard truth conversations." He was a military man — practical, prepared, purposeful. He told her two things to hold onto: never question the man above, because He knows our beginning and our ending. And run your race, Andrena, whether I'm here or not, because you had purpose from the very beginning.

And so she did. She kept showing up. She kept building her business. She kept dancing — because she and Mr. Phillips used to dance together on social media and people loved it, and dancing still brings him close. From the outside, people saw her and thought, she's fine. But what they didn't see was the therapist, the long walks, the internal work happening behind the scenes. She wasn't fine. She was just getting through and those two things are not the same.

Three years later, Dr. Andrena is still doing the deep work and letting it show up in how she leads, how she loves, and how she lives. She's still grieving — she'll tell you straight up that grief has no timeline and no rulebook — and she's also still growing, still coaching, still owning her greatness.

Hype Song:

Affirmations by Flippa T Affirmations (Radio Edit)

Resources:

Dr. Andrena’s website: https://KeepMovinWithAndrena.com

LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/andrenaphillips

Facebook: https://facebook.com/KeepMovinWithAndrena

Instagram: https://instagram.com/Keep_MovinWithAndrena

Twitter: https://twitter.com/AndrenaKMovin

Dr. Andrena’s book: https://keepmovinwithandrena.com/walkingagain/

Invitation from Lori:

This episode is sponsored by Zen Rabbit.

Smart business leaders know trust is the foundation of every great workplace. And in today’s hybrid and fast-moving work culture, trust isn’t built in quarterly town halls or the occasional Slack message. It’s built through consistent, clear, and HUMAN communication.

Companies and leaders TALK about the importance of connection and community. And it’s easy to believe your organization is doing a great job of maintaining an awesome corporate culture. Because you’ve got annual all-hands and open door policies, and “fun" team-building events.

But let's be real. Leaders who are serious about building real trust are finding better ways to strengthen culture, create connection, and foster community.

That's where I come in. Forward thinking companies are hiring me to produce internal/private podcasts. To bring leadership and employees together through authentic stories, real conversations, and meaningful connections. Think of it as your old-school printed company newsletter - reinvented for the modern workforce. I KNOW, what a cool idea, right?!

If you run, work for, or know of a company that wants to upgrade communication, facilitate connections, build community, and maintain culture, let's chat. Message me at [email protected].

Because when people feel heard, they engage.

From a childhood shaped by the loss of her father and the blending of deeply religious family values, Kym Coco developed an early appreciation for spirituality as a lived sense of connection and empowerment. Her journey began with the awareness that we are spiritual beings within physical bodies, a notion both comforting and inspiring when navigating life’s difficult moments. As Kym grew older, especially after her father’s passing, she felt compelled to internalize and reinterpret her spiritual upbringing, seeking an authentic alignment with her own experiences and needs.

This was the foundation she leaned on when her husband Steve became ill. Their rich conversations about meaning and connection to something greater became the foundation of Kym adult life. Before he passed, Steve told her plainly: "Kym, you're gonna need structure when I'm gone." So she bought a van. (He wasn't thrilled about it.) But that van became a beacon of hope and the centerpiece of a solo golf adventure across the western U.S. where Kym played courses from the Oregon coast to Montana to Wyoming. She met wonderful people, played in the rain, dodged lightning, and caught a double rainbow.

Meditation, learned in her twenties, became a lifeline, a practice to quiet the chaos, cultivate presence, and forge mind-body-spirit alignment. For Kym, meditation was about learning to witness and gently release the tension, angst, and old energy patterns of childhood and young adulthood. Her willingness to try different modalities, whether a 10-day silent retreat or simply stepping away from her phone, reflects a growth mindset and playful curiosity that infuse her journey.

Kym’s not someone who pretends the hard stuff isn't hard. She recognizes that the stubborn patterns of worry or fear don’t dissolve overnight; instead, it starts with small acts of awareness, self-compassion, and the willingness to let go of static definitions of self. She highlights the importance of sampling different “flavors” of transformation, just as one might experiment with various styles of yoga or tea. Because who you are today isn’t fixed, and your resources for change evolve alongside you.

Hype Songs:

Real Good Feeling by Oh the Larceny

Andy Grammer - Damn It Feels Good To Be Me (Official Video)

Resources:

• Kym’s website: https://swagtail.com/
• LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/swagtailyoga
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swagtailyoga
• Attention is our greatest resource, and we can train it to focus on what matters most. I'm sharing a free 20minute class to start boosting it now. https://swagtail.com/podcastbonus/

Invitation from Lori:

This episode is sponsored by Zen Rabbit.

Smart business leaders know trust is the foundation of every great workplace. And in today’s hybrid and fast-moving work culture, trust isn’t built in quarterly town halls or the occasional Slack message. It’s built through consistent, clear, and HUMAN communication.

Companies and leaders TALK about the importance of connection and community. And it’s easy to believe your organization is doing a great job of maintaining an awesome corporate culture. Because you’ve got annual all-hands and open door policies, and “fun" team-building events.

But let's be real. Leaders who are serious about building real trust are finding better ways to strengthen culture, create connection, and foster community.

That's where I come in. Forward thinking companies are hiring me to produce internal/private podcasts. To bring leadership and employees together through authentic stories, real conversations, and meaningful connections. Think of it as your old-school printed company newsletter - reinvented for the modern workforce. I KNOW, what a cool idea, right?!

If you run, work for, or know of a company that wants to upgrade communication, facilitate connections, build community, and maintain culture, let's chat. Message me at Lori@ZenRabbit dot com.

Because when people feel heard, they engage.