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On this episode, Scott and Chasity go deep into a real commercial structure fire that went all the way to jury trial—and nearly got labeled as “negative corpus” by the defense.

They walk through the fire from first alarm to conviction: a midnight manual pull station, sprinklers flowing on stacked cardboard, a lone security guard, multiple small fires at knee height, and no obvious ignition source in the debris. Scott breaks down, step-by-step, how he eliminated every plausible cause, built a scientific timeline using fire dynamics and experimental burns, and defended his incendiary determination in court.

Along the way they unpack:

• The difference between negative corpus and proper process of elimination
• How NFPA 921 evolved from 2008 through 2024 on this issue
• Why documenting what you eliminated and how may be more important than your final cause
• Using research like the Ignition Handbook and Kirk’s Fire Investigation to support your findings
• Why separating origin & cause from interviews protects your objectivity
• How attorneys will attack your work—and how to stay calm and defensible on the stand

They also touch on AI and NFPA’s new usage policy, talk respiratory protection with CleanSpace PAPR and ITL, share upcoming training opportunities, and introduce this episode’s vocab word: “Forensic”—timed perfectly with NFPA 921 (2024) formally calling fire investigation a forensic science discipline for the first time.

Stick around to the end for a tease of their upcoming NFPA 921 chapter-by-chapter game-show series, and don’t forget to smash that five-star rating—it’s free-99 and helps the podcast reach more investigators.

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In this episode, Chasity and Scott head to Florida to sit down with newly elected Florida Chapter President Joe Pietrafesa and newly elected Vice President Stephen Dollar. Recorded on Disney property during the state conference, this conversation dives into the real-world challenges fire investigators are facing today—from AI-altered photographs and manipulated metadata to the increasing importance of respiratory protection and long-term health monitoring. Joe opens up about how a routine life scan caught his kidney cancer early, underscoring why PPE and investigator health studies matter more than ever. Steven shares how AI training, modern learning tools, and better accessibility to education are shaping the chapter’s future as they aim to expand quarterly training opportunities and leverage new technologies for investigator development.

The group also talks about the Florida Chapter’s impressive scholarship opportunities, including multiple full-ride awards, and why new investigators should join their state associations to build community and support. Scott and Chasity spar a little on the difference between an interview and an interrogation, the nuances between public and private roles, and what that means for documentation. They also tease next episode’s key term: metadata—and how it can help or hurt an investigation. As always, the episode includes a WTF: We Trained Frequently segment, a sponsor spotlight on CleanSpace PAPRs with ITL, and some fun banter about Florida hospitality, Disney buses, and why investigators should take advantage of conferences that double as family-friendly destinations.

• Evidence Collection (New Class, Not ECT Practicum)
  Monday, December 8, 2025 – Irvine, CA
• Motor Vehicle Fire Investigation (3-Day, IAAI Endorsement Eligible)
  December 9–11, 2025 – Irvine, CA
• NFPA 1321: Conducting Comprehensive Fire Investigations
  Instructor: Steve Riggs, Legal & Liability Risk Management Institute (LLRMI)
  December 15, 2025 – Online
• ECT (Evidence Collection Technician) Practicum
  Sold Out — but can be taken at another location after completing the class above

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In this episode, spooky season banter quickly gives way to a masterclass on interviewing for fire investigation: open-ended vs. leading questions, letting witnesses talk without interruption, taking notes without breaking rapport, and using scene walk-throughs to correct memory gaps and build timelines. We unpack subrogation in plain English, why early investigator deployment is value-add, and how to avoid bias from client synopses. Real cases include a mid-slope wildland start clarified by witness video, an LA industrial strip with two separate fires hours apart, and a garage Li-ion incident with practical safety takeaways. Tools mentioned include PLAUD for transcription and LLMs for formatting—not for conclusions. We close with “Use It in a Sentence” on ambient, a roundup of WTF Trainings, and a two-fer homework: interview vs. interrogation—what’s the difference?

Resources mentioned (non-sponsored)

• PLAUD (Plaud Note) – audio capture/transcription used to create interview transcripts.
• LLMs (e.g., Gemini/ChatGPT/Claude) – used only to format summaries from transcripts.

WTF Trainings (as mentioned on the show)

• Alabama ATC 2025 — Oct 27–29, Orange Beach, AL
• Florida IAAI Chapter (Lake Buena Vista) — Nov 3–6 
• Idaho Chapter Annual Conference — Nov 4–6, Twin Falls, ID
• Hispano Americano ATC 2025 — Nov 11–14, Santa Martha, Colombia
• Ohio IAAI Investigation Seminar 2025 — Nov 12–13, OH

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In this episode Chasity and Scott dig into how real-world investigators apply NFPA 921 on scene and on the stand—focusing on why we qualify conclusions (not quantify them), how to express confidence without the discredited “reasonable degree of scientific certainty,” and practical ways to navigate internal and external pressure during origin-and-cause work. You’ll also hear quick takes on PAPRs in the field (battery life, full-face vs. half-mask), what’s new on the training calendar, shout-outs to must-listen podcasts, and a first look at the upcoming Fire Death Investigation Academy. Plus, a simple “word of the week” you’ll actually use in your next report. Tune in for tactics you can put to work immediately—without giving away the whole playbook.

California Conference of Arson Investigators (CCAI)  Oct 6–9

West Virginia Training — Oct 13–14, 2025

Arkansas Fire Prevention & Investigation Conference — Oct 14–16

Alabama Conference — Orange Beach — Oct 27–29, 2025

Florida Annual Training Conference — Lake Buena Vista — Nov 3–6

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In this Embercast episode, brought to you by the Fire Investigation INFOCUS Podcast, hosts Chasity Owens and Scott Kuhlman sit down with Illinois firefighters and investigators Bob and Zig to discuss Project Fire Buddies
— a powerful nonprofit connecting fire departments with families of children facing chronic or life-threatening illnesses.

What began as one firefighter’s compassionate gesture has grown into a nationwide movement with 150+ chapters across 14 states, bringing joy, hope, and practical support to families through hospital visits, gift drops, home accessibility upgrades, vehicle repairs, and unforgettable experiences like behind-the-scenes days at Wrigley Field.

Listeners will learn how departments can start their own Project Fire Buddies chapters, how the funding model works, and how anyone — firefighter or civilian — can make a difference through donations, volunteerism, or merch purchases.

Whether you’re in the fire service, emergency response, or simply passionate about giving back, this episode shows what it truly means to serve your community beyond the emergency call.

👉 Learn more, donate, or start a chapter: projectfirebuddies.org

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In this episode, Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens recap a high-energy week teaching “AI for Fire Investigators” with the Illinois Chapter of the International Association of Arson Investigators in Peoria—what they changed from earlier classes, why transparent prompting and hands-on tools boosted engagement, and how they’ll evolve live demos next time. They unpack a standout burn-cell scenario where a clean-burn sat feet away from the true area of origin, using it to highlight how depth of char and calcination indicate relative heat exposure—not burn time—and why you must articulate origin before cause to survive depositions. Listener mail digs into IAAI Fundamentals vs. the National Fire Academy (NFA) two-week course, plus a candid look at public–private teamwork done right in Illinois. You’ll also hear quick hits on PPE (CleanSpace PAPR), a fall training roundup, and a teaser for the next Ember Cast on Project Fire Buddies. If you’re building your skills—NFPA 921 patterns, ventilation effects, report writing, and AI workflows—this one’s packed with practical takeaways without spoiling the stories.

Illinois Chapter IAAI: https://il-iaai.com

• CCAI Annual (CA): Oct 6–9;  arson.org
• West Virginia IAAI: Oct 13–14
• Arkansas IAAI: Oct 14–16
• Alabama IAAI (Orange Beach): Oct 27–29
• Florida IAAI ATC: Nov 3–6 (Scott & Chasity teaching AI)

ITL - CleanSpace Distributor- Tim Costa; [email protected]

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Welcome back to Fire Investigation in Focus! In this episode, hosts Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens dive deep into the world of fire patterns, fire effects, and origin determination, bringing both practical field experience and NFPA 921 insights straight to your headphones.

We kick things off by introducing Ember Casts—shorter, 10–20 minute mini-episodes designed to drop in between full shows, offering a “little ember of knowledge, big flames of understanding.” These quick hits will cover focused topics, case takeaways, and emerging tools, giving fire investigators the edge to stay sharp between major episodes.

From there, Scott and Chasity break down the different types of fire patterns you’ll encounter in the field: hot gas layer effects, plume-generated patterns, ventilation-driven patterns, suppression artifacts, and even undetermined or misleading fire patterns. Through real-world case studies—including residential and fatal fires—they explain how to distinguish between cause and effect, avoid common misinterpretations, and build reports that stand up to scrutiny in deposition or trial.

Listeners will hear about the importance of report writing language (first vs. third person), how forensic science terminology is evolving in NFPA 921 (2024 edition), and why tools like heat and flame vector analysis are crucial for sequencing and communicating your findings clearly. Scott and Chasity also share stories from training burns, suppression pattern recognition, and investigative “aha moments” that highlight the skillset fire investigators acquire over time.

The episode also touches on investigator mindset, reminding professionals to show grace when explaining findings to attorneys, homeowners, or jurors who don’t see fire scenes every day. Plus, there’s a look ahead at upcoming fire investigation trainings and conferences, including Illinois, Nebraska, North Dakota, Nevada, and CCAI events, as well as a Spanish-language FIG Global webinar.

Whether you’re a new fire investigator hungry for knowledge or a seasoned professional looking for a refresher on NFPA 921 fire patterns, origin determination, and scientific method application, this episode is packed with practical insights, case examples, and professional takeaways to strengthen your investigative toolbox.

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Welcome to the very first EmberCast, a new short-form addition to the Fire Investigation INFOCUS Podcast. These mini-episodes are designed to spark curiosity and deliver timely insights in between our full episodes. In this kickoff EmberCast, Chasity and Scott are joined by Jesse Sprague, founder of Echo Spectra, to talk about an innovative new tool for wildfire investigation. Jesse shares how his background in geology, computer science, and mapping led him to develop a free mobile app that allows investigators to document wildfire origin and cause scenes with precision. Built to align with the PMS 412 guidelines, the app enables users to capture directional indicators, tie them directly to photos and metadata, and export results into formats like Google Earth—complete with styled arrows, orientation, and photo logs.

Throughout the conversation, Jesse explains the app’s capabilities, from tracking advancing, lateral, and backing indicators, to overlaying wind vectors, lightning strike data, and land ownership information. He also shares upcoming features like polygons, boundary mapping, and turkey tracks to enhance scene documentation. Scott and Chasity highlight the value this tool brings to investigators at all levels—whether new to the field or seasoned experts—by consolidating critical data into one intuitive platform. With Echo Spectra’s blend of technology and fire science, investigators now have a powerful, accessible way to streamline their work and elevate their reporting.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone working in fire investigation, wildland fire response, or legal teams supporting fire cases. And the best part? The Echo Spectra app is completely free to download, making it an incredible resource for the community.

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Episode 17 – Fire Investigation in Focus Podcast
In this episode, hosts Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens return to the studio to dive into some of the most important updates shaping the fire investigation field. From the realities of starting a new business in the industry to the growing role of education and advanced certifications, Scott and Chasity share real experiences and advice that every investigator—new or seasoned—can learn from. They highlight exciting developments such as the launch of FIG Global’s Forensic Science Center in Mexico, upcoming changes to NFPA 921 and NFPA 1033 (2027 editions), and what those revisions mean for investigators moving forward—especially regarding wildland fire investigations, digital evidence, and AI in reporting. You’ll also hear insights on practical training opportunities, upcoming conferences, and why passion and process are key to credibility in the courtroom.

Whether you’re building your career, brushing up on standards, or just love geeking out on fire dynamics, this episode will keep you informed, inspired, and connected to the future of fire investigation.

Upcoming Fire Investigation Trainings & Conferences:

• Nebraska Annual Fire & Arson Conference
  📍 Nebraska | 🗓️ September 16–18, 2025
• North Dakota Chapter Training Conference
  📍 North Dakota | 🗓️ September 24–26, 2025
• California Conference of Arson Investigators (CCAI) Training Conference
  📍 San Luis Obispo, CA | 🗓️ October 6–9, 2025
• Nevada Chapter – Building Codes & Fire Investigation
  📍 Reno Fire Station 11 | 🗓️ September 18, 2025 | ⏰ 8:00 AM – 4:00 PM
  Instructor: Keith Eth | Lunch provided
• FIG Global (Spanish-language webinar)
  🗓️ September 10, 2025 | ⏰ 1200 hrs CDMX
  Topic: Reconstructing the Truth – Impact of Fire Forensic Labs

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Welcome back! In this episode our hosts return to recording live episodes together! Chasity kicks things off with exciting news about launching her own fire investigation company and shares stories from her incredibly busy first week, including four fires and some impressive networking at joint examinations. She takes us through fascinating cases, from a kitchen fire caused by cloth items accidentally left in a broiler to a massive carport fire involving 20 vehicles that initially had witnesses convinced arson was involved - until solid forensic work proved otherwise.

Scott shares his own intriguing cases, including a potential spontaneous heating incident from improperly disposed refinishing materials, and discusses the importance of witness interviews after sharing a gripping story about an apartment fire with suspicious Ring camera footage. The hosts dive into the challenges of single-resource investigation work and emphasize the critical balance between forensic evidence and witness statements in determining fire origin.

The episode features their signature movie quote game (with mixed results on Chasity's movie knowledge!), valuable insights about approaching experts at conferences, and Scott's mind-blowing demonstration of ChatGPT's new Agent Mode for research tasks. They also highlight upcoming training opportunities across multiple states and remind listeners about their upcoming appearance at the Illinois chapter meeting where they'll be teaching classes and recording a live podcast segment.

Throughout the episode, the hosts maintain their trademark blend of technical expertise, practical advice, and genuine enthusiasm for fire investigation, making complex forensic concepts accessible while sharing real-world experiences that showcase both the science and art of their profession. Whether you're a seasoned investigator or just curious about fire investigation, this episode delivers valuable insights wrapped in engaging storytelling.

Key Topics Covered:

• Starting a fire investigation business
• Kitchen fire safety and broiler storage mistakes
• Large-scale carport fire investigation techniques
• Spontaneous heating from refinishing materials
• Witness interview strategies and timing
• Conference networking and expert consultation
• AI tools for research and documentation
• Upcoming training opportunities nationwide
• Fire pattern analysis and undetermined classifications

Upcoming Training Events:

• North Dakota Annual Training Conference (Sept 24-26)
• Nebraska Conference in Norfolk (Sept 16)
• California CCAI Conference in San Luis Obispo (Oct 6-9)
• Arkansas Fire Prevention Conference (Oct 14-16)
• Alabama Conference in Orange Beach (Oct 27-29)
• Illinois Chapter Meeting in Peoria (Sept 15-17) - featuring the hosts!

Note: The hosts will be teaching AI classes and conducting a live podcast recording at the Illinois conference - don't miss the chance to meet them in person!

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