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My guest today, Peter Callahan, made such a fun film called OUT AND ABOUT (2022) that explores the life of a middle age suburban white guy walking around his neighborhood. That’s the film. I watched half of it before going out on my birthday a few weeks ago, and came home, buzzed, ready to watch more of a guy walking around filmmaking. 

And through meeting his neighbors and other characters, we get a deeper understanding of his life. 

And today, we do that with the director Peter Callahan. His personal story is crazy — dropping out of high school to winning awards at the SOHO International Film Festival — and I’m so glad he’s here to share his perspective on indie filmmaking. 

In this episode, Peter and I discuss:

• How OUT AND ABOUT is such a great concept — it’s just a guy walking around while you hear his inner monologue!;
• His crazy entry into filmmaking — from dropping out of high school to getting a Master’s degree at Columbia University;
• The stories behind the films he made before OUT AND ABOUT, including trips to Sundance;
• Why he decided to act in his film;
• Whether the 10,000 hours concept popularized by Malcom Gladwell (it takes 10,000 hours to be proficient at a certain task) is true for screenwriting;
• The logistics of a film like OUT AND ABOUT (no, you can’t actually make that walk) and whether there was reluctance for such a unique topic;
• If a middle age white guy film hurt him at festivals and amongst viewers;
• What’s next for Peter.

Peter's Indie Film Highlights: AMITY (2012) dir. By Alejandro Adams; FRANCES FERGUSON (2019) dir. By Bob Byington

Links:

Follow Peter On Instagram

OUT AND ABOUT Film's Website

Christian Kamaal's Episode Of The Podcast

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Every Sunday, I'll post a quick video -- and podcast -- about an indie film from at least a year ago. Today's film: THE FRAGILE KING (2022).

Director: Tristan Holmes

Writer: Tristan Holmes

Cast: Andrew Buckland; Alex de la Rey; Deon Lotz

SYNOPSIS

After his mother's death, 15-year-old Michael is sent to his ageing grandfather. During a road trip, the two develop a relationship they never had.

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In the atmosphere we live in in the United States, putting up a title card for your film's first shot that says "in solidarity with Planned Parenthood" and then screening it in red states is brave. That's just the reality. But when you hear from my guest, Lauren Melinda, about her film BEFORE YOU (2025), she tells you this was not her intent. She was not trying to make a political film or send a message on the issue of abortion. In some ways, that would be the easier thing to do...pick a side.

Instead, Lauren created a deeply personal film that gets at emotion and unseen feelings better than anything I've seen before. She does it through transition scenes that shows a person in flux and sometimes in despair. Film is a visual medium, and too often directors don't use it to tell an emotional story.

The logline is "a woman navigates the echoes of a life-changing loss" but it's so much more than that. It's the story of an amazingly creative filmmaker grappling with her art, using all the tools she's accumulated in photography and artistic expression, and I'm so glad to have director Lauren Melinda here to talk about her career and her beautiful film, BEFORE YOU.

In this episode, Lauren and I discuss: 

• How she got started and the big influence of her photography background;
• If her executive producing has allowed her a more precise vision for her filmmaking;
• The role of her production company, Simbelle Productions, and why it’s a nonprofit;
• Why she focuses on narratives rather than documentaries;
• How she feels about our film festival system for distribution;
• What audiences should expect before they watch BEFORE YOU;
• The amazing transitions in the film and how to get at mental struggles by showing (not telling);
• How the film’s first scene is a title card that announces it is “in solidarity with Planned Parenthood” — what has the reaction to that been like?
• Why she was willing to push boundaries that we don’t always see from filmmakers;
• What’s next for her and Simbelle Productions.

Lauren’s Indie Film Highlights: BLUE HERON (2025) dir. by Sophy Romvari; FAMILIAR TOUCH (2024) dir. by Sarah Friedland; 

Memorable Quotes: 

“I’ve always been interested in the female experience in the way that society and culture and even our environment impacts us and our identity.”

“When I say I work in social impact and film people automatically assume it’s documentary.”

“It’s scary to talk about things where you feel like you might be attacked.”

“Something we’re really interested in is not only supporting female filmmakers but it’s about the films themselves.”

Links:

Follow Lauren On Instagram

Follow Simbelle Productions On Instagram

Follow BEFORE YOU On Instagram

“Criminally underrated” is what one Letterboxd critic called Irving Franco’s second feature, ADAM THE FIRST (2024). The film stunned me. The logline: “after finding a list of names and addresses, 14-year-old Adam sets out across the country to meet a series of men who could be his father.” It’s a hero’s journey, well-acted, and the last few scenes will crush you. Irving also scored the film, which you don’t see very often. 

So why is it misunderstood? We talk about it in this episode with this two time feature writer-director-composer, Irving Franco. 

In this episode, Irving and I discuss:

• Does he check his Letterboxd reviews?
• How he got started in filmmaking;
• The lost art of DVD commentaries;
• His scrappy start to CHEERLEADER (2016) and how he was able to jump straight to a feature without making a short or proof of concept;
• Did his sales background help him with his pitching and his ability to raise funds for his first film?
• What he took out of his first film to making his second feature, 8 years later;
• Should you crowdfund at the end of the project?
• The inspiration for the writing of his films and the joys of including a hero’s journey in a film;
• The casting of David Duchovny and what that means for indie filmmakers;
• The range required by Oakes Fegley and how he saw that in casting;
• Did he know that he had something great?
• The rarity of writer-director-composer; what should indie filmmakers know about scoring their film;
• The ending of ADAM THE FIRST and the power of a forceful conclusion;
• What’s next for him and how we hopefully don’t have to wait another 8 years between features, along with love for NYC (of course).

Irving's Indie Film Highlight: GOOD TIME (2017) dir. by Benny Safdie & Josh Safdie

Links:

Follow Irving On Instagram

Watch This Episode On YouTube

Every Sunday, I'll post a quick video -- and podcast -- about an indie film from at least a year ago. Today's film: BACK TO BURGUNDY (2017).

Director: Cédric Klapisch

Writers: Cédric Klapisch; Santiago Amigorena; Jean-Marc Roulot

Cast: Pio Marmaï; Ana Girardot; François Civil

SYNOPSIS

After a ten year absence, Jean returns to his hometown when his father falls ill. Reuniting with his sister Juliette and his brother Jérémie, they have to rebuild their relationship and trust as a family again.

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They say "write what you know" to start your filmmaking career. In this episode, my guest, Jake Ringsell, makes the case to create films about subjects you don't know. If it works, that's great, but if it doesn't, he concludes, then you've learned something.

This is advanced, gutsy filmmaking, and I'm here for it with director-editor-musician Jake Ringsell. His new film, now streaming on YouTube, is called THE RALLY (2024). The tagline for the film is, "mortality is brought to the fore when a terminally ill woman goes on a camping excursion with her best friend."

It's more than that, though. It's something beautiful that will move you, and I'm so glad to talk with Jake for this episode.

In this episode, Jake and I discuss:

• The deeply personal reaction for his film on the festival circuit and on YouTube for his film;
• How he got started and whether student loans are a whole thing in the UK for film school (they are);
• Whether non-musicians do a good job shooting music videos?
• What should people to expect when they watch the film;
• The unique lighting that tells the story;
• The casting process to tell such a personal story;
• How he got connected with the writer of the film and how the plot differs from real-world events;
• The challenges and opportunities of making a film starring only two women when it’s written and directed by two men;
• The decision for it to hit streaming at Omeleto after its festival run;
• His role with music in films as a musician and what indie filmmakers should know about scoring their films;
• How he feels about royalty-free music services;
• If indie filmmakers and musicians should work together more often;
• What’s next for him. 

Jake's Indie Film Highlights: FESTIVAL OF SLAPS (2023) dir. by Abdou Cisse; OLYMPUS LOST (2025) dir. by Amadeus Redha

Memorable Quotes:

“I think [THE RALLY] is really relatable. I think anyone has their own story that it reminds them of or might remind them of.”

 “We were just about to shoot the first shot, and this isn’t a joke, and we had a line of about 50 nudists.”

“If you’re too close to something, even if you’re writing a song, if you write something that hurts a bit too much, it’s not going to be as great if you can look at it with hindsight.”

“ If we'd made a film and they were like, that's not how two women...talk to each other, that's great because then we've learned something” 

“Somebody is going to take this as an app idea, but you should connect musicians with filmmakers.”

Links:

Watch THE RALLY Now

Follow Jake On Instagram

Watch This Episode On YouTube

This conversation could have gone on for another few hours. I felt so blessed to chat with a kindred spirit about raising the profile of independent filmmakers, Hope Lawson. Hope founded Takeout LA after finding herself in the filmmaking business. She also works for Gersh so this episode opens up discussions I’ve been dying to have on the podcast. 

Takeout LA is a film screening series and it’s also a party, which come to think of it, is what this episode is like. 

In this episode, Hope and I discuss:

• Does Hollywood still get its drink on?
• The origin story of Takeout LA and what the submission process is like;
• How she got her start in filmmaking;
• Breaking in — are people still willing to take those 345 AM wake up calls or is the issue the jobs aren’t available?
• Making money after film school; 
• What is happening at agency film festivals — and the first use of hip-pocketing on the pod — and who is being signed at agencies right now;
• Why Gersh must love her creation of Takeout; 
• How crucial her diverse screening committee is for the success of Takeout; 
• What constitutes a great short?
• Los Angeles’ place in indie films and how it competes as a character in films;
• What’s next for her — including, fingers crossed, a Hope Lawson film;
• The platform that rises above the rest for short films;
• If filmmakers can be a bit too twee with their films and what is “social chess”;
• Whether social media has made film sets better or worse. 

Hope’s Indie Film Highlight: FORMER CULT MEMBER HEARS MUSIC FOR THE FIRST TIME (2020) dir. by Kristoffer Borgli — Watch Now

Memorable Quotes:

My former boss told me when I started, I came in and I was just hungover…”if you get sober before the age of 40, it'll be detrimental to your career.”

“ I started Takeout right when I got to my agency job when I started as an assistant. And coming in, I immediately realized like all of my friends that do creative things, they hold these networking events, but it's all creatives. And we hold these networking events and it's all business people. There's no low pressure way for creatives to show their work to up and coming young people in the business.”

“ And I got a job as a COVID PA, very glamorous. It was my job to get there at 3:45 AM and greet all of the really happy people on this freezing cold ranch.”

“ For the first time in five years in Hollywood, I'm no one's assistant. It's great.”

“When you go to school for this and you're promised like this kind of easy path up, it's a lot harder to motivate yourself to do like truly grunt work.”

“There's the flip side of the coin, if you're too good of an assistant and you start feeling like, oh, this is where they want me forever, it's time to go.”

“You are always your first agent.”

“I think bringing young creatives into that kind of bubble where everyone's young and hungry now and we can't really do much, but once we're recognized and we get a little bit more power, we're gonna remember all the people we met when we were young and hungry, and we wanna make those movies.”

“So a good short makes me care about the people in it and wonder when it ends.I don’t need to know the whole story. I need to want to know.”

“ We do a q and a after it's just kind of me up there cracking jokes and trying my best.”

“The motto of me is I love to help.”

“You can cool kid yourself into no one seeing your work ever.”

Links:

Follow Takeout LA On Instagram

Follow Hope On Instagram

Some of the films that were screened at Takeout:

MIRIAM (2025) dir. by Josie Andrews

FUCK THAT GUY (2024) dir. by Hanna Gray Organschi

CONFESSIONS (2023) dir. by Stephanie Kaznocha

MY BRIEF CONVERSATION WITH THE DOJ (2024) dir. by Luke Strickler

ITS SNOWING IN THE SUMMER (2021) dir. by Gladimir Gelin

A KIND FAVOR (2024) dir. by Christian Klein and Mattias Evangelista

The Cursed Sea (Il Mare Maledetto) dir. by Eliana Victoria Alcouloumre

RABBIT (2024) dir. by Carson Culver

BETWEEN GIGS (donSMITH Visual Album) dir. by Brittney Briggs

THE DEATH OF ART SLOB (2023) dir. by Ahmar Ahmad

ALIEN IN LOVE (2024) dir. by Corrinne James 

Every Sunday, I'll post a quick video -- and podcast -- about an indie film from at least a year ago. Today's film: ADAM THE FIRST (2024).

Director: Irving Franco

Writer: Irving Franco

Cast: Oakes Fegley; David Duchovny; T.R. Knight

SYNOPSIS

After finding a list of names and addresses, 14-year-old Adam sets out across the country to meet a series of men who could be his father.

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My guest, Lee Knight, won Best Director at 2025's HollyShorts for his stunning film, A FRIEND OF DOROTHY (2025), but you wouldn't know it because as you just heard, his thoughts are with the indie filmmakers still out there struggling. That sounds exactly like my type of filmmaker to host on the podcast.

A FRIEND OF DOROTHY could be described as "a lonely widow's quiet life is upended when a teenage boy accidentally kicks his football into her garden", but that doesn't do justice to the casting, the lighting, the cinematography, and the music of this short. It's brilliant filmmaking from a man who worked his way up to making it, and I'm so glad to have him on the show to celebrate his success and talk about how he made it happen.

In this episode, Lee and I discuss:

• after winning best director at HollyShorts, what he wished he knew before the festival run started;
• how he got started in filmmaking, initially honing his craft as an actor, and if he has one favorite;
• actors' relationships with older actors and whether it's something he's uniquely talented;
• why he waited for A FRIEND OF DOROTHY to be his directorial debut;
• if rejection is different as an actor versus a director;
• what he wants people to be thinking of when they watch his first film as a director;
• why he set up the film the way he did, with an intro that "plays with the audience";
• the runtime of 23 minutes and its reaction from programmers;
• the brilliant casting of the film and how his judgment as an actor influenced the final decisions;
• the consul general hosted a party for British filmmakers in Los Angeles. Can the UK do more to promote its filmmakers?
• what's next for this uniquely talented filmmaker.

Lee's Indie Film Highlights: 22+1 (2025) dir. by Pippa Bennett-Warner; COOL BOY (2024) dir. by Peter Bjerre Salling

Memorable Quotes:

"I look back on my career as an actor and I think there was always there was always a writer director there, even when I was training. And I think it's because of ownership of story."

"I also think that the film highlights a kind of safety that older people give, and specifically older women and as a gay man, and I think a lot of gay people say this...we always loved and felt very safe with older women. "

"You have to be forced to dig deep because every time you are rejected, it's the same as an actor, every time you are rejected, if you stop, you just are missing out on digging that bit deeper to kind of really push forward." 

"When did you want to be a filmmaker? And I think I didn't, I wanted to be everything -- a storyteller in every sense, whatever medium it takes." 

"I actually don't think it's my job as a director to know about lenses. My job is to have people that are experts in that field and then we collaborate."

"You've got to surround yourself with people you trust who are not going to feed your ego."

"I really believe that you've got to aim high with actors because if they connect with your story...they don't do short films for the money...they will do it if they really believe in the story."

"If you need to really get an actor to feel safe and vulnerable...it's a bespoke job."

Links:

Follow Lee On Instagram

Follow A FRIEND OF DOROTHY on Instagram

Watch This Episode On YouTube

Watch SHANTI RIDES SHOTGUN Now, a Vimeo Staff Pick

His feature film, SOMEWHERE WITH NO BRIDGES (2020)? Too short, he was told. His award winning short film, SHANTI RIDES SHOTGUN (2025)? Also -- too short! What the world is telling my guest, filmmaker Charles Frank, is that we need to see more of his lyrical vision of the world in the documentary space. His awards and credits in the indie space -- an incredible 10 Vimeo Staff picks, New York Times and New Yorker films, he runs his own production company called Voyager -- only serve to cement this point of view.

I'm hoping he will be able to balance fatherhood with the challenges of deeply original filmmaking. As you'll see in this conversation, he's one of the best out there in the new generation of documentary filmmaking.

In this episode, Charles and I talk about:

• the importance of family in his filmmaking and how it has evolved now that he is a father;
• how he got started in filmmaking (if you have the stapler video, lmk);
• his decision NOT to attend NYU after being admitted -- and still being successful;
• how film school graduates pay their student loans;
• 10 Vimeo Staff picks, NYT, New Yorker -- what was the most important honor for his career?
• Richard Linklater's advice during the SXSW's filmmakers' brunch;
• his doc feature debut, SOMEWHERE WITH NO BRIDGES (2020);
• his reaction to the New York Times' review of the film and how I feel that critics too often can pile on indie filmmakers;
• life as a director married to an editor willing to kill his darlings;
• his SXSW film, SHANTI RIDES SHOTGUN (2025) and his upcoming Oscar campaign for the film;
• how he shot a film about a driving instructor in New York City(!) -- it's a crazy story;
• what his companies, Voyager and Leap Year, do;
• how he judges a project when a director comes to him -- socials? film school?;
• how you should never send Charles a templated email (not saying this would work, but if you sent an original email saying you listened to him here and personalized it just a bit, I'm guessing you'd get a response);
• does he worry about AI?;
• what Portland is like for indie filmmakers;
• his upcoming documentary, FATHERHOOD;
• how brandwork is different versus a general audience in terms of what they like.

Charles Indie Film/Filmmaker Highlight: Sam Davis; DICK JOHNSON IS DEAD (2020) dir. by Kirsten Johnson

Memorable Quotes:

"This is what like life is about. When we share that all together and it's captured on the camera, it's like the most majestic, magical stars aligning feeling."

"When we get positive reviews about the film, it's almost always about the pace of the film."

"I forget who said it, but AI shows us what art without soul looks like."

Links:

Follow Charles Frank On Instagram

Voyager's Website