First Time Go

There’s no more exciting place to be in independent film than the intersection of France and the United States, or as a filmmaker in either of these locations. In France, cinemas are packed and the Cannes Film Festival often sets the tone for what’s considered the best films of the year. 

So if the goal is understanding France’s role in global cinema, there is no better person than my guest, Amanda Sthers, who has released three feature films that star globally known actors and help explain, in each of their ways, what is attractive about filmmaking in both countries. 

Along with filmmaking, her production company aims to “build bridges between Europe and the United States.” That’s the goal of this episode, too.

Amanda and I talk about:

• What it’s like to have somebody on the podcast without an immediate project to pitch!
• How she got her start as a novelist, not a filmmaker, at 15 (!);
• How she’s never taken on a script she hasn’t written and what it would take for her to do so; 
• As a novelist, did she write her books with a film adaptation in mind?
• The role of screenplays in films and how to define what’s good or not — “ the way you say things without saying them, that's a good screenplay.”;
• Should screenwriters direct films?
• How she would introduce her three feature films -- HOLY LANDS (2017), MADAME (2017), PROMISES (2021);
• Why the trust given to her from well known actors hasn’t translated to reviews of the films;
• How she runs a “collaborative” set and how she works “exactly like Woody Allen” (!);
• Her production company and differences in American and French filmmaking;
• Why French people love going to the cinema and the difficulty of streaming French cinema in the United States;
• How she’s able to work with globally known actors;
• What’s next for her. 

Amanda's Indie Filmmaker Highlight: Bonnie Timmermann

Memorable Quotes:

“The first time I was on a set, it was mine.” 

“ And then it took 10 more years for me to direct my first movie and it wasn't really my decision. I was writing a movie for a studio that basically ordered me [to write a] French “Love Actually.” 

“ You need to know how to betray your own work because it's not the same way to write a novel and to write a screenplay.”

“ A screenplay is not a piece of art, per se. It's a tool to make a good movie.”

“ It's a collective work. And I just feel that everyone is important on a set. Everyone should be celebrated because it's always a miracle when a movie is good.”

“A writer director, when you give something so honest and so personal, because when people don't like my movie, I feel that they don't like me, which is not true, but I need to work on that.”

Links:

Follow Amanda On Instagram

Every Sunday, I'll post a quick video -- and podcast -- about an indie film from at least a year ago. Today's film: I LIKE MOVIES (2022).

Director: Chandler Levack

Screenplay: Chandler Levack

Cast: Isaiah Lehtinen; Percy Hynes White; Veronika Slowikowska

SYNOPSIS

Socially awkward 17-year-old cinephile Lawrence Kweller takes a part-time job at Sequels video store, where he forms a complicated friendship with his older store manager, Alana. Lawrence hopes to earn enough money to achieve his dream of attending film school at NYU.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Follow us on Letterboxd

Follow us on Instagram

Follow us on X

Follow us on Facebook

Follow us on TikTok

Follow us on LinkedIn

Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Bottle films, films made predominately in one location, are like playing with fire. There’s not a lot of room to make a good film if you don’t cast well, for instance, or if the location of your bottle isn’t fantastic. My guest, director Nicolai Schumann, understood all this….because he watched a bunch of the previous bottle films…and went ahead with THE LONELY MUSKETEER (2024) anyway. And I’m so glad that he did. 

The film tells the story of “the psychological downfall of a man who is highly traumatized by life.” Along the way, it’s earned numerous awards, including cinematography at the 2025 Raindance Film Festival. And Nico is here to talk about it with me today. 

In this episode, Nico and I discuss:

• The clausterphobic nature of his film and what people should expect to see when they watch THE LONELY MUSKETEER?
• The pairing of investment bankers and hooligans in London that made this film;
• The secret to success for the feature film that won best cinematography at Raindance 2025;
• Why they cast Edward Hogg for a film that centers around a man locked in a box;
• How he feels about bottle films;
• Utilizing color throughout the film as well as putting important scenes in the credits;
• Whether he can trace awards won to tangible benefits for the film;
• London as an indie filmmaking location;
• What he’s working on now” — “three teenagers who decide on a suicide pact in the backdrop of Thatcherism”;

Nico’s Indie Film Highlight: JAMES (2024) dir. by Max Train

Memorable Quotes:

“The next decision I made, stylistically or creatively, is that there is not a single camera movement in the whole movie. So our big role model for that was a shower scene in PSYCHO;

“ If there's not a hundred percent certainty that the actor can put it off, we wouldn't have done it.”

“ The other thing which was really important for us is that we got the visuals right…that we started with wide lenses and then we went to long lenses over the movie so that the walls were literally closing in on the actor.” 

“The credit sequence is there to keep the audience guessing.”

Links:

Follow Nicolai On Instagram

Watch This Episode On YouTube

This is way easier said than done but when you’re making a short film, you need a couple things to exceptionally stand out. Whether it’s the writing, cinematography, subject…something. Otherwise, you’re lost in a sea of submissions. The money is almost irrelevant if you don’t have the goods. 

For my guest Jennie Butler and her film, GEORGIE (2024), it’s piecing out a theme of his life from an interview and then making an extraordinary film from that thread. 

Jennie calls GEORGIE a “melancholic but humorous profile of an older man who has had a very hard life and now is living with his decisions.”

In this episode, Jenny and I discuss:

• What it’s like to be in Palm Springs in June — it’s hot;
• GEORGIE is such a fantastic, layered film — are there better short films out there?;
• How she got her start — what I do now “is not that different”;
• The difficulty in starting off just freelancing;
• Does brandwork help with her filmmaking? “That comes from journalism”;
• Why she never sees herself going into narrative;
• What people should expect to see when they watch GEORGIE;
• How she decided on the motif of loneliness;
• How she balanced making GEORGIE a true documentary and not simply a marketing campaign for her subject;
• The challenge of how gotcha moments sell in documentary and how she makes a “nod to the audience this is a slightly unreliable narrator of his own story”;
• Her festival experience with GEORGIE and her advice for hitting the festival circuit;
• FilmFreeway — come on the show! — and the scam coupons for festivals you’ve never heard of;
• Her recommendations for someone starting off in documentary;
• What she’s working on next.

Jennie’s Indie Film Highlight: QUEEN OF VERSAILLES (2012) dir. by Lauren Greenfield; THIN (2006) dir. by Lauren Greenfield; Omer Sami

Memorable Quotes:

• “ Some of the films they looked like they cost a million dollars to make, they were insanely high budget. A lot of those def came from Europe because they have the money for that there, because their governments support that, and ours doesn't, but that's another topic.”
• “ Yes, the films are quote unquote higher quality, but it's really just all about the storytelling.”
• “ I just remember the first time I edited a video. You get into that flow state. I'd never really felt that before with writing. Writing always felt like a struggle.”
• “Once you make more and more films, you wanna control more and more aspects of the film. And then in documentary, of course, you have to let go of a lot of control because you're working with real people.”
• “Making subjects comfortable with this process is literally the hardest part of making a documentary. There is nothing harder.“
• “Submit to the festivals that make sense for your film.”
• “ I didn't submit to Venice. I didn't submit to Berlin because if you look, they let in half a percent of films. That's throwing away $50.”
• “ I've met a bunch of programmers, so of course the first thing I would do on my next run is email those programmers who I've met.”
• “ Shorts are a really great way to hone your craft and also show your work.”
• “ Figure out something where the scope is literally so small, but you can show what you can do.” 

Links:

Follow Jennie Butler On Instagram

Visit Jennie Butler's Website

Follow The Rough Cut Pod (Jennie's old pod)

Watch This Episode On YouTube

Every Sunday, I'll post a quick video -- and podcast -- about an indie film from at least a year ago. Today's film: NIGHT OWLS (2015).

Director: Charles Hood

Screenplay: Charles Hood; Seth Goldsmith

Cast: Rosa Salazar; Adam Pally; Peter Krause

SYNOPSIS

Kevin goes home with Madeline for a drunken one-night stand and is horrified to learn she is his boss's ex-mistress. After he catches her taking a box of sleeping pills, they slowly start to fall in love as he keeps her awake all night.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Follow us on Letterboxd

Follow us on Instagram

Follow us on X

Follow us on Facebook

Follow us on TikTok

Follow us on LinkedIn

Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Watch This Episode On YouTube

Watch SOVEREIGN Now

SOVEREIGN (2025) is a filmmakers’ thriller and the story behind its director, my guest, Christian Swegal, is one of the best in independent film this year. The reason that so many investors are reluctant to back a new director for their first feature is one of skepticism — they think the director won’t be able to handle the responsibility. And when you add in powerhouse actors like Nick Offerman and Dennis Quaid, it’s fair to expect a watered-down mush of a film which critics and audiences would chalk up to, well, it was a first time feature director.

That’s not the fate for Christian. Critics are talking about how it is perhaps Nick Offerman’s best career performance, a sublime take on a man lost in the Sovereign citizen movement, and we are here today talking about how the hell did he pull it off…and with such swagger. 

In this episode, Christian and I discuss:

• Should you Google the story behind SOVEREIGN?
• What should people expect to see when they watch the film? “It’s a character study of this man and his relationship with his son”;
• How he was able to make such an accomplished film for his debut feature?
• What he owes the real-life characters and the viewers when writing an “inspired by true events” story?
• How the film is a filmmaker’s thriller with the little motifs in the film, and he’ll explain the baby motif in the film;
• The brilliant casting of Nick Offerman in this film;
• Not getting hung up on casting -- a fantastic script will attract talented people to your film;
• The process of funding the film, including the use of Slated ad tax rebates;
• How it went from Tribeca to distribution within a few months;
• Advice he’d give somebody directing their first feature?
• “When in charge, be in charge” and how he implemented his vision no matter what;
• What he’s working on next — “I’m drawn to true stories”

Christian's Indie Film Highlight: SUNDOWN (2021) dir. by Michel Franco; MEMORY (2023) dir. by Michel Franco

Memorable Quotes:

• “ If people engage with the movie to the degree that they're interested to go and Google the real events I think that's a good sign.”
• “ The movie will be for some people and not for other people. And that's fine. It's better to be polarizing in that way. I think for a movie our size than it is to try to please every audience and to a degree.”
• “Or how you relate to a baby. It shows how you relate to something that's innocent and pure and really it's a stand in for empathy.”
• “ My advice to filmmakers that I wish I had earlier was just don't wait. Focus on your material and on the story and then just go.”
• “ Every single person we talk to along the way, in pre-production through production, through the end of it, had their spin on how they would fix the thing and make it different. And that's what's great. And when they direct their movie, then they can do their version of it.”

Links:

Follow Christian On Instagram

Follow SOVEREIGN On Instagram

Every Sunday, I'll post a quick video -- and podcast -- about an indie film from at least a year ago. Today's film: MARJORIE PRIME (2017). 

Director: Michael Almereyda

Writers: Michael Almereyda; Jordan Harrison

Cast: Geena Davis; Hannah Gross; Jon Hamm

SYNOPSIS

Eighty-six-year-old Marjorie spends her final, ailing days with a computerized version of her deceased husband. With the intent to recount their life together, Marjorie's Prime relies on the information from her and her kin to develop a more complex understanding of his history. As their interactions deepen, the family begins to develop diverging recounts of their lives, drawn into the chance to reconstruct the often painful past.

Watch This Episode On YouTube

Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Follow us on Letterboxd

Follow us on Instagram

Follow us on X

Follow us on Facebook

Follow us on TikTok

Follow us on LinkedIn

Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Happy 2nd anniversary to the pod, and I can’t think of a more vital filmmaker for our time and for this episode than Nathaniel Lezra. His film ROADS OF FIRE (2025), winner of the Best Feature Documentary at the 2025 ‪@officialSBIFF‬ interweaves the lives of a human smuggler navigating the treacherous Darién Gap (the only land bridge between North and South America), an asylum seeker rebuilding her life in New York City, and volunteers working on the frontlines of a growing humanitarian emergency.

It found distribution from ‪@NewMountainFilms‬ with a theatrical release in September 2025, with event screenings in markets like New York and Los Angeles. As we talk about, it’s the straight shooting explainer of the migrant crisis that our country needs right now. So much to be excited for in the third year of the podcast — happy Fourth of July.

In this episode, Nat and I talk about:

• does he see ROADS OF FIRE as an explainer of the migrant crisis?
• how the film is a straight shooter politically;
• the theatrical run planned for September;
• the ambition of the film and the three threads — asylum seekers in NYC, migrants in Colombia, and humanitarian organizations — that he nimbly showcases in the film;
• his recommendation for film school graduates in getting started with shoots near Ukraine and Colombia;
• why documentary and not narrative?
• how narrative films demand life experience;
• how much he cares about gear as a filmmaker often on the road;
• what’s next for him.

Nathaniel’s Indie Film Highlight: THE ACT OF KILLING (2012) dir. by Joshua Oppenheimer; THE LOOK OF SILENCE (2014) dir. by Joshua Oppenheimer; Matthew Heineman; THE TERRITORY (2022) dir. by Alex Pritz; 20 DAYS IN MARIUPOL (2023) dir. by Mstyslav Chernov

Memorable Quotes:

• “ This film…traces very much my own exposure and journey becoming more aware of the migrant crisis”
• “ I've never put myself in a position other than once or twice in Colombia where I felt like I was letting go of control and truly just riding what was given to me.”
• “You'd be surprised what your own nuts and bolts production literacy will get you.”
• “ I don't want to be scared of the world. I want to have experiences.”
• “ And for me, the only way to do that is to find those stories and just accept my vulnerability and accept my ignorance to some degree and walk out into the world and see what the world has to offer.”
• “You need to live life in a serious way before you take a bite out of a narrative project.”
• “I spoke to some high schoolers not too long ago, and a lot of people are really astounded to learn just the value of your iPhone.”

Links:

Follow Nat On Instagram

ROADS OF FIRE Website

Every Sunday, I'll post a quick video -- and podcast -- about an indie film from at least a year ago. Today's film: YOU CAN COUNT ON ME (2000).

Director: Kenneth Lonergan

Screenplay: Kenneth Lonergan

Cast: Laura Linney; Kenneth Lonergan; Mark Ruffalo; Matthew Broderick

SYNOPSIS

Sammy is a single mother who is extremely protective of her 8-year old son. She is satisfied with living in the small town she grew up in and working in a local bank. When her brother Terry visits he fits the void in the life of both her and her son. Temporarily free of the constraints of single motherhood she begins to break free of her normal routine. In a string of traumatic events Sammy is torn between helping her brother and her maternal instinct to protect her son from getting hurt.

Watch This Episode On YouTube

Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Follow us on Letterboxd

Follow us on Instagram

Follow us on X

Follow us on Facebook

Follow us on TikTok

Follow us on LinkedIn

Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Watch FORWARD THINKING (2025) Now

I’m not sure if the pod has ever gotten a bigger honor than what Antonio Harper & Abby Burton gave it in this episode — sure, they said, listeners can watch our short, currently on its festival run. FORWARD THINKING (2025) is a “surreal short film about a young black man who is attempting to trademark his likeness in the event that he's murdered by the police.” And to me, that sells it short. It’s a film about race that goes further than any other film I’ve seen in a way that makes you think about what you saw so much you’ll watch it again, all to make you smile once again with the amazing closing scene. Go watch FORWARD THINKING, go watch it again, and come back and hear this fantastic conversation with an epic filmmaking duo from Cleveland. 

In this episode, we talk about

• how they got started in filmmaking;
• what they would recommend in regards to working as a team;
• the ideas that motivated FORWARD THINKING (2025);
• How the film goes further than usual on the topic of race — was there pushback for being so bold?;
• the amazing music for the film — the Cleveland connection got it from Chip Tha Ripper;
• the importance of a final shot in a short film;
• how to discuss race, disability, gender in filmmaking and finding the balance in between highlighting and ignoring those areas;
• the Black ecosystem of film and whether it’s represented well in the larger film festival/independent film scene;
• the advantages of subtlety and how it allows filmmakers to go further than if they were blatantly talking about a topic;
• The amazingness of Cleveland for independent film;
• what’s next for them — Abby saves them for giving away important information!

Abby’s Indie Film Highlight: TALK (2025) dir. by Jessica Perlman; RENEGADES - Judy-Lynn del Rey dir. by Jeremy Hsing

Memorable Quotes:

“Don't be a Dwayne. Practice cultural appreciation, not cultural appropriation.”

“ Do I see myself wanting to get up at 4:00 AM to run suicides or get up at 4:00 AM for a call?”

“The music just ended up being that Cleveland luck”

“ Disability and disabled filmmakers are just that, they're just more filmmakers and they need to have their stories told. They need to have the opportunity to show what they can do. And, yes, it's a very vulnerable thing to come out and talk about it when it's not as accepted in the industry.”

The approach to race “ should be a lot like what Abby and I did with FORWARD THINKING” 

“What I would hope to see is, especially in the in industry, is just having more people of color and underrepresented actors in roles that aren't necessarily traditionally tailored for that group.”

Links:

Follow Abby On Instagram

Follow Antonio On Instagram

Subscribe To West 10G Productions On YouTube