🔥 Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!

What if engaging in conflict is not something to be avoided, but rather a vital spiritual path that leads to deeper intimacy and community?

In this forty-second episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Terry Symens-Bucher, a 40-year resident of Oakland, California, co-founder of Canticle Farm, and a foundational elder in the Illuman community. Terry reflects on his 2007 initiation at John Knox Ranch, the profound experience of writing a letter to his estranged father during his day of solitude, and how a heart attack finally forced him to pay attention to his inner work.

Episode Highlights

• The Wake-Up Call: Terry explains how a heart attack and bypass surgery in his late 40s rattled his world, pushing him to finally register for the MROP and seek a new sense of purpose.
• The Letter to His Father: During his day of solitude at the rites, Terry wrote a powerful letter to his estranged father, expressing deep gratitude for the ways his dad showed up for him as a child.
• Conflict as a Spiritual Path: Why avoiding conflict keeps us stuck, and how engaging in healthy conflict can visibilize our shadow, heal our trauma, and lead to deeper intimacy.
• The Importance of Container: Terry discusses how Illuman creates safe crucibles—like council circles—where the fire of initiation can transform a man without causing collateral damage to his family and community.

Links & Resources

• Canticle Farm
• Advanced Council Training
• Brian Mueller (Host)
• BriansPoems.com
• Illuman MROP
• Practicing Presence App
• The Universal Christ by Richard Rohr
• Adam's Return by Richard Rohr
• Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr
• Trust Stillness by Brian Mueller

Credits

• First and foremost, thank you to Terry Symens-Bucher for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
• Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.

Music Credits:

• Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
• Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

What is the difference between a ceremony and a ritual, and how can the latter completely alter the course of a man's life?

In this forty-first episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Karim Aziz, a ritual elder and retired coastal resident of Portland, Texas. Karim shares his journey to the 2009 Men's Rites of Passage at John Knox Ranch, and how crossing that threshold gave him the language and the framework for the midlife stirring he couldn't quite name.

Episode Highlights

• The Midlife Stirring: How Karim's ten years in first-half-of-life spirituality (Walk to Emmaus) eventually left him hungry for a deeper, second-half-of-life transition.
• Entering the Unknown: Arriving at the rites with zero knowledge of Richard Rohr or initiation, and making the conscious decision to say "yes" to whatever the weekend held.
• Releasing the Anger: A deeply moving account of Karim unexpectedly using the grief ritual to finally process the shame, anger, and embarrassment of his father's suicide.
• The Power of Ritual: The vital distinction between a simple ceremony and a robust ritual that hits the body and moves a man from the known into the liminal unknown.
• The Role of the Ritual Elder: Karim explains his journey from inventorying the supply closet in Texas to becoming a ritual elder, where his primary job is simply to set a safe container for men to do their own work.

Links & Resources

• Brian Mueller (Host)
• BriansPoems.com
• Illuman MROP
• Choosing Presence
• Practicing Presence App
• The Universal Christ by Richard Rohr
• Adam's Return by Richard Rohr
• Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr
• Trust Stillness by Brian Mueller

Credits

• First and foremost, thank you to Karim Aziz for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
• Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.

Music Credits:

• Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
• Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

What happens when a man carrying a lifetime of process addictions and a fierce "Warrior" ego finally surrenders in the wilderness?

In this deeply moving fortieth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Dean Robertson, a full-time woodworker and mentor in 12-step recovery from Linwood, Washington. Dean discusses his 2022 initiation at Skalitude, Washington, offering a profoundly honest look at addiction, the shadow, and the grueling but beautiful work of the hero's journey.

Episode Highlights

• Permission to Surrender: How an anxious, over-prepared man hiding behind process addictions finally let go of his phone and his pride when his wife gave him permission to surrender.
• The Alaskan Wilderness: Dean's harrowing and beautiful journey from jail cells and smoking tea bags to a three-year, off-the-grid solo in the Alaskan rainforest to get sober.
• Sobriety vs. Recovery: Why simply eliminating substance abuse wasn't enough, and how the rites helped him confront the deadly sin of pride and his "dry drunk" process addictions.
• Befriending the Dragon: Dean's incredible insight into the hero's journey—why we must get lost to find our way, and why surrendering to the dragon is more transformative than slaying it.
• The Return of the Hero: A beautiful reflection on elderhood and why the true treasure of any initiation is returning to the community to give your story away.

Links & Resources

• The Cave & The Fire - Season 1, Ep 5 - Streets to Surrender, with Dean Robertson
• Brian Mueller (Host)
• BriansPoems.com
• Illuman MROP
• Choosing Presence
• Practicing Presence App
• The Universal Christ by Richard Rohr
• Adam's Return by Richard Rohr
• Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr
• Trust Stillness by Brian Mueller

Credits

• First and foremost, thank you to Dean Robertson for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
• Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.

Music Credits:

• Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
• Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

What happens when a man searching for a quick fix arrives in Aravaipa Canyon weighed down by too much gear and a heavy load of fear?

In this thirty-ninth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Tony Murray to discuss his April 2014 initiation in Arizona. Tony, who works in HR and analytics in Louisiana, opens up about the deep anxieties he carried into the wilderness—from sleeping arrangements to bug bites—and how crossing the river into liminal space washed those fears away.

Episode Highlights

• The Fear of the Unknown: Tony shares his hilarious and relatable anxieties about sleeping in the woods, the food, and bringing unnecessary gear to the canyon.
• The "I Am" Exercise: The vulnerability of sitting in a circle of strangers and realizing that once his titles (father, manager, HR director) were stripped away, he had to face his true self.
• Deepening the Practice: How an Arizona fireman taught Tony a simple trick with a yoga strap to support his hips, transforming his agonizing 20-minute sits into a daily practice he now craves.
• The Silent Drive Home: Why Tony's mentor, Joe Hebert, insisted on driving him to the rites, providing a crucial, unspoken buffer between the emotional exhaustion of the initiation and the return to the real world.
• Radical Self-Compassion: Tony explains how the rites ultimately initiated him into a path of forgiving himself and accepting his own flaws, which paved the way for a beautiful friendship with his ex-wife.brotherhood.

Links & Resources

• Brian Mueller (Host)
• BriansPoems.com
• Illuman MROP
• Choosing Presence
• Practicing Presence App
• The Universal Christ by Richard Rohr
• Adam's Return by Richard Rohr
• Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr
• Trust Stillness by Brian Mueller

Credits

• First and foremost, thank you to Tony Murray for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
• Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.

Music Credits:

• Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
• Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

What happens when a highly successful, workaholic D.C. lobbyist realizes his career can no longer be his entire spiritual journey?

In this thirty-eighth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Brad Pickel, an Enneagram 3, coastal scientist, and the former administrator for Illuman from 2014 to 2021. Brad shares his journey to the "Rainy MROP" of 2011 in Rolling Ridge, West Virginia—the very last rites of passage led by Richard Rohr. He discusses sweeping out stinkbugs from his uninsulated cabin, the fear of losing his marriage if the rites changed him too much, and his wife Leslie's beautiful, loving response to his anxiety.

Episode Highlights

• The Rainy MROP: Brad recalls the muddy, stinkbug-filled, 100-man initiation in West Virginia, and how the challenging weather mirrored his internal path of descent.
• Healing the Father Wound: Brad discusses letting go of his attachments and finding the grace to see his estranged, dying father simply as a broken man.
• The Yellow Eyes in the Woods: A powerful story from his nature solo, and how Brad's relationship with the "wild" shifted from a feeling of strict discipline to an invitation to wander freely.
• A Call to Service: What it was like to serve as Illuman's first administrator, fielding desperate emails from hungry men and honoring the profound vulnerability of the brotherhood.

Links & Resources

• Brad Pickel (Guest)
• Brian Mueller (Host)
• BriansPoems.com
• Illuman MROP
• Choosing Presence (Sponsor)
• Practicing Presence App
• The Universal Christ by Richard Rohr
• Adam's Return by Richard Rohr
• Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr
• Trust Stillness by Brian Mueller

Credits

• First and foremost, thank you to Brad Pickel for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
• Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.

Music Credits:

• Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
• Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

What happens when a successful director of missions at a mega-church realizes his faith tradition is broken and he's carrying decades of internalized oppression?

In this thirty-seventh episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Byron McMillan, a true contemplative, outdoor educator, and guide at the Center for Action and Contemplation. Byron shares his profoundly moving journey from the evangelical South to a 2017 initiation at Sky High Ranch in Colorado.

Episode Highlights

• Deconstructing Faith: Why Byron left his dream job at a 10,000-person mega-church after recognizing its complicity in systemic racism and political idolatry.
• A Vision of Harriet Tubman: Sitting in the rain during his six-hour nature solo, Byron received a powerful message from the great abolitionist: "Trust the earth."
• The Gauntlet: Byron describes the agonizing but liberating experience of walking through two lines of men and announcing his core wound of racial inadequacy.
• The Great Turning: Why American culture is like an adolescent caterpillar destroying the planet, and how the men of Illuman are acting as "imaginal cells" to birth a new way of being.

Links & Resources

• Byron McMillan (Guest)
• Elder Fire Collective
• Brian Mueller (Host)
• BriansPoems.com
• Illuman MROP
• Choosing Presence (Sponsor)
• Practicing Presence App
• The Universal Christ by Richard Rohr
• Adam's Return by Richard Rohr
• Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr
• Trust Stillness by Brian Mueller

Credits

• First and foremost, thank you to Byron McMillan for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
• Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.
• Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence.

Music Credits:

• Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
• Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

What happens when a father takes his teenage son to a youth rites of passage, only to discover that he desperately needs an initiation of his own?

In this thirty-sixth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Matthew Burch, a small business owner from Oklahoma City, who made his rites at DeRoche, British Columbia in 2024. Matthew shares a beautifully articulate and profound story of stumbling into men's work after a decade of non-stop grinding at his business, and how taking his 15-year-old son to the youth rites cracked him wide open.

Episode Highlights

• A Father's Awakening: How taking his 15-year-old son to a youth rites of passage led Matthew to weep tears of joy for four straight hours on the drive home—and realize he needed his own initiation.
• Beyond the Warrior: Realizing he had spent his life using the "Warrior" archetype to fight and defend himself, and how the rites opened him up to the tenderness, vulnerability, and nurturing of other masculine archetypes.
• Healing Trust: Overcoming a lifetime of distrust toward men and authority figures—stemming from an absent biological father and a fraught relationship with his stepfather—by forming deep, safe bonds with his council brothers.

Links & Resources

• Brian Mueller (Host)
• BriansPoems.com
• Illuman MROP
• Illuman of Texas/Oklahoma
• Choosing Presence (Sponsor)
• Practicing Presence App
• The Universal Christ by Richard Rohr
• Adam's Return by Richard Rohr
• Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr
• Trust Stillness by Brian Mueller

Credits

• First and foremost, thank you to Matthew Burch for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
• Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.
• Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence.

Music Credits:

• Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
• Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

What happens when a Catholic priest steps away from his vocation, moves to the cornfields of Ohio, and seeks out a new kind of spiritual initiation?

In this thirty-fifth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Joe Grilliot to discuss his June 2025 initiation at Osprey Wilds in Sandstone, Minnesota. Joe, a former priest turned farmer, shares his journey of navigating a major life transition—from ministry to marriage, fatherhood, and farming—and why he sought out the rites to make an intentional transition into true manhood.

Episode Highlights

• Ticks as Teachers: Joe recounts his solo time in the wilderness, where avoiding ticks and mosquitoes taught him how to push through his fear with humor.
• A Unique Crossroads: The massive life transition that brought Joe to the rites: leaving the priesthood, getting married, having a son during COVID, and becoming a farmer in Ohio.
• The Ritual Bond: The powerful, immediate connection Joe formed with his partner, John, during their very first ritual on Friday night.
• A Broader Sacramentality: How Joe's background as a Catholic priest influenced his experience, and how the rites helped him realize God's presence extends far beyond specific words and rituals.
• Fatherhood and the Live Edge: Joe's ongoing work to manage his anger—a trait inherited from his own father on the farm—so he can be a healthier, safer presence for his young son.

Links & Resources

• Brian Mueller (Host)
• BriansPoems.com
• Illuman MROP
• Choosing Presence (Sponsor)
• Practicing Presence App
• The Universal Christ by Richard Rohr
• Adam's Return by Richard Rohr
• Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr
• Trust Stillness by Brian Mueller

Credits

• First and foremost, thank you to Joe Grilliot for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
• Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.
• Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence.

Music Credits:

• Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
• Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

What happens when a highly successful, Enneagram 3 Carmelite priest confesses to being an "inadequate son" and strips down in the woods?

In this special encore presentation of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller brings back his conversation with Bob Colaresi. As Brian heads to the Illinois Men's Rites of Passage this week, we revisit Bob's powerful 2005 initiation in Minnesota. Bob, the founder emeritus of these rites, shares his journey of overcoming his fear of mosquitoes, discovering the profound impact of drumming, and confronting the false self that drove his messianic need to fix everything.

Episode Highlights

• The Mosquito Fear: Bob admits he almost backed out of the rites after reading Adam's Return, only to be lovingly guilted into going by his spiritual director, Susan, who made him a drum.
• The Inadequate Son: How a profound grief ritual forced an Enneagram 3 administrator to publicly name the deep inadequacy driving his worldly success.
• Heaven Smiled: Spending a day in the woods on the three-year anniversary of his father's funeral, Bob finally heard the words he had waited his whole life to hear.
• Moses and the Veil: The powerful story of returning home in tears, and Susan's beautiful recognition that she had looked right into the heart of his soul.
• Dropping the Messianic Complex: How the rites helped Bob stop treating people like projects to be fixed and instead listen to them with genuine, self-emptying love.

Links & Resources

• Brian Mueller (Host)
• BriansPoems.com
• Illuman MROP
• Choosing Presence (Sponsor)
• Practicing Presence App
• The Universal Christ by Richard Rohr
• Adam's Return by Richard Rohr
• Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr
• Trust Stillness by Brian Mueller

Credits

• First and foremost, thank you to Bob Colaresi for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
• Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.
• Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence.

Music Credits:

• Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
• Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

What happens when a corporate executive caught in the rat race sits in silence by a pond and finally lets his guard down?

In this special encore presentation of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller brings back his very first conversation on the podcast with Chester Trocha. As Brian heads to the Illinois Men's Rites of Passage this week to stand with the men crossing the threshold, we revisit Chester's powerful 2012 initiation at Pilgrim Park. Chester, a co-convener for Illuman of Illinois, shares his journey of leaving behind the superficial containers of the corporate world to discover a deeper spiritual churning.

Guided by the wisdom of Weaver Belden Lane, Chester recalls the profound impact of intentional rituals, the beauty of a diverse council group featuring a Franciscan friar and a Mennonite minister, and the uncontainable joy that led him to buy coffee for a stranger on the drive home.

Episode Highlights

• The First Encounter: Reliving the very first episode of the podcast as a special encore presentation.
• Belden Lane's Wisdom: The incredible impact of nature, silence, and an authentic storyteller.
• Sobbing by the Pond: The overwhelming mix of emotions Chester experienced immediately after the rites concluded.
• The Starbucks Joy: Driving home and feeling an uncontainable happiness that spilled over to a stranger.
• The Slow Burn: How the rites initiated a slow spiritual churning that led to daily centering prayer and the CAC's Living School.

Links & Resources

• Brian Mueller (Host)
• BriansPoems.com
• Illuman MROP
• Choosing Presence (Sponsor)
• Practicing Presence App
• The Universal Christ by Richard Rohr
• Adam's Return by Richard Rohr
• Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr
• Trust Stillness by Brian Mueller

Credits

• First and foremost, thank you to Chester Trocha for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
• Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.
• Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence.

Music Credits:

• Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
• Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams