Sarah Ellison Hernandez's dream was to become a judge. In 2018, Sarah's dream was realized when she was appointed as an immigration judge. It was the highlight of her career. She remembers excitedly calling her mom with the news. To this day, the memories of her swearing-in ceremony make her emotional because of the weight and importance of her oath. Sarah thought this would be her forever job.

Normally, a new presidential administration will cause a few changes to immigration courts, but those are just adjustments in priorities and don't spark legal concern. Beginning in January, Sarah saw what she calls "bread crumbs" of the administration trying to go somewhere with immigration law and policy. Sarah was concerned by the barrage of "spicy" policy memos being released daily. These memos laying the groundwork to fire employees for minor infractions.

Sarah became increasingly concerned when she learned the US State Department's Country Reports on Human Rights Practices would no longer include information about persecution of women, individuals with disabilities, or LGBTQ+ individuals. They also removed or reduced coverage of issues such as fair trials, political freedom, corruption, and more. Immigration judges rely heavily on these annual reports to adjudicate asylum claims for protection from persecution or torture. Sarah recalled a time when she relied on the reports to grant a claim for a woman who had escaped an honor killing in India. This change was one of the first moments Sarah saw the administration taking away protections for everyone.

Every day in 2025 was something new for Sarah, and things were only getting worse. The DOJ's Executive Office of Immigration Review was instructing immigration judges to pretermit applications. Cases were to be dismissed, and individuals were to be placed in expedited removal. All of these instructions made Sarah squeamish.

The breaking point for Sarah was the Kilmar Abrego Garcia case, when the administration lied about the circumstances surrounding Abrego Garcia's deportation in intentional defiance of the law and court order. Sarah's gut was telling her "Danger! Danger! Danger!"

Sarah worried about DOJ taking advantage of how immigration courts are set up. With immigration courts being administrative courts and part of the DOJ, the Attorney General can pull a case and issue a ruling which then becomes binding case law. The Board of Immigration Appeals reports to the Attorney General, who reports to the President. The AG can control what immigration courts do, and the AG is currently pushing the bounds of what is constitutionally allowable. Sarah wondered at what point she would be asked or instructed to do something illegal.

When the second Deferred Resignation Program offer came around, Sarah knew she had to take it. She could no longer keep her head down and hope for the best. She saw the administration lie and intentionally defy court orders. Sarah refused to be a part of that.

Since leaving her dream job, Sarah has opened her own private practice, Ellison Hernandez, PLLC, in Midlothian, Texas, providing consultation services and litigation support for other attorneys and law firms. Sarah is using her 15 years of state, federal, and immigration court experience to give insight and assist other attorneys and law firms in advocating for their clients. She is licensed to practice law in Texas and supports clients nationwide via her virtual platform.

Connect with Sarah on LinkedIn.

For more information about this episode, visit our ⁠website⁠.

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The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the United States, or any past or current employers.

Andrew Kreider is a 10th-generation Pennsylvanian and first-generation college graduate. As a high schooler in Phoenixville, Pennsylvania, he wanted to help save the planet. So, he set up a recycling center in his parent's newly built mud room and begged his mom to take him to the large recycling center for drop offs on the weekends.

Andrew's strong environmental ethic led to a 29-year career at the Environmental Protection Agency, much of which he spent at the EPA's Region 3 Office in Philadelphia. He managed the Brownfields Project for seven years, creating opportunities for economic growth across the Mid-Atlantic region. During his tenure, the program funded grants that provided jobs for communities, such as Lancaster, Pennsylvania, where he got to help the town revitalize and restore Roberto Clemente Park.

For the last few years, Andrew served as a Senior Government and Public Affairs Liaison and as Communications Director. Andrew coordinated relationships with US Senate and House offices and was the first point of contact for elected officials seeking assistance from the EPA.

In January of 2025, Andrew had no plans to retire. He had served under six administrations and five different presidents. Presidential transitions did not normally affect the day to day operations at the EPA, but the second Trump administration was different.

The administration terminated grants and violated union contracts. Employees were sent home on administrative leave, then asked to return to the office, then fired, and then un-fired. EPA employees were told not to answer grant recipients' questions about their grants and funding. With hundreds of organizations relying on grant funding which had been pulled without notice, members of Congress contacted EPA to find out what was going on. Andrew was instructed to stonewall Congress members and tell them that everything was "normal." Andrew refused to lie.

While on annual leave in March, Andrew participated in the American Federation of Government Employees' EPA Solidarity Walk in Philadelphia to protest the administration's attacks on the EPA workforce. The Philadelphia Inquirer photographed and interviewed Andrew. The next day the EPA's new Administrator saw the article and Andrew's photograph. The new Administrator singled Andrew out and told top EPA officials that Andrew was the kind of employee who made his job more difficult.

Ten days later, Andrew was removed from his position and was no longer able to interact with the public or members of Congress.

Andrew had a choice to make. Keep his job or his voice? Andrew chose to keep his voice and to use his freedom of speech to speak out about matters of public concern, such as the destruction of the EPA and civil service jobs. Andrew took the second Deferred Resignation Program offer and left EPA in June. Andrew is remaining hopeful for our country and emphasized, "Hope is not a feeling. It is a choice, and it is a choice that demands action."

These days you can find Andrew in West Chester, Pennsylvania, where he is the Director of Communications for Chester County. Connect with him on LinkedIn.

For more information about this episode, visit our website.

If you enjoy Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on ⁠Ko-fi⁠, and ⁠follow us⁠⁠ on ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠, ⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠, ⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠, ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the EPA, the United States, or any past or current employers.

When Molly Kocialski became the Director of the Rocky Mountain Regional US Patent and Trademark Office, she traded the wealth of 20 years of private practice for the stability and flexibility of federal employment. In September 2025, that balance shifted, and Molly left her job of ten years with the USPTO.

At 12:04 am Eastern Time on October 1st, just minutes into what would become the longest government shutdown in history, the USPTO announced the closure of the Rocky Mountain Regional Office and a reduction-in-force targeting approximately 200 employees. Molly was the Rocky Mountain office's second—and last—regional director.

A 2019 study determined intellectual property directly supported $7.8 trillion in US GDP and over 44 million American jobs. As an educator and public liaison, Molly made sure the public got its money's worth out of the nation's only fully fee-funded agency. Molly traveled over a dozen times a year throughout her office's nine-state region, meeting with everyone from farmers to semiconductor manufacturers to ensure they knew how the USPTO could help them protect their intellectual property.

As an administrator, Molly cared deeply for her people. You can hear this as she poignantly discusses how they were undermined by policy changes since January. From contract reductions to travel bans, it became nearly impossible to do the necessary work of the USPTO. After the February return-to-office mandate, Molly started "snacks and support" because the office's food services had ceased during COVID, and her team's fast pace of virtual meetings with the public didn't leave time for people to go out for lunch. Even after her departure, she spent the early hours of October 1st consoling former employees and colleagues who had abruptly lost their jobs.

Molly is continuing her commitment to service in private practice where she's helping inventors navigate the constant series of changes at the USPTO. When she's not busy at the office, Molly can be found lovingly serving bagels at her son's football practice, which you may hear echoes of in this episode. 🏈

In this episode, Molly highlights numerous changes at the USPTO that raise concerns about the agency's ability to continue issuing patents every Tuesday, as it has like clockwork since the 1800s. In that spirit, we've created a small project to monitor whether patents are issued on time. We hope you'll check it out on our website from time-to-time to see how things are going, or learn how to implement it yourself on our GitHub.

Connect with Molly on LinkedIn or find her at Holland & Hart.

For more information about this episode, ⁠⁠⁠⁠visit our website⁠⁠⁠⁠.

If you enjoy Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on ⁠⁠Ko-fi⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠follow us⁠⁠⁠ on ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the USPTO, the United States, or any past or current employers.

While finishing her Ph.D. in Clinical Psychology, Dr. Sarah DeGue thought she would go into research and maybe private practice. Instead, Sarah was called to public service by the appeal of stopping violence before it starts, and she spent the next 17 years doing just that at the CDC's Division of Violence Prevention, Research and Evaluation Branch. For the last 10 years, Sarah also served as a Senior Scientist and Director of CDC’s Dating Matters teen dating violence prevention initiative. Sarah used her expertise to educate communities and employed a public health approach to prevent violence in the United States, including mass violence, ideological violence, and hate crimes.

In April 2025, the Department of Health and Human Services eliminated 10,000 employees through Reduction in Force (RIF) and nearly wiped out the CDC's entire Division of Violence Prevention. The United States lost a wealth of knowledge in the public health space. Through the elimination of these jobs and the removal of research from the public domain, over 40 years of research in violence prevention was effectively destroyed—a loss that could take a decade to rebuild. Sarah never thought it possible that she and so many of her colleagues would be forced to leave government, but that's exactly what happened.

Still reeling from the RIFs, Sarah worried about what would happen in the violence prevention space through the dramatic loss of resources. True to her calling, Sarah created Violence Prevention Solutions, LLC, as a space for her former colleagues to maintain expertise and rebuild. Violence Prevention Solutions is reinventing and evolving to make resources more stable while no longer relying on the government or non-profit sector.

During her last years at the CDC, Sarah also worked with the Department of Homeland Security to develop public health approaches to prevent targeted violence and domestic terrorism, but that work is no longer continuing due to the cuts at the CDC. Sarah worries about the lack of prevention at a critical moment in time, villainization of LGBTQ+ communities, and misinformation surrounding the overstated threat of leftist ideology.

In the aftermath of the August 2025 CDC shootings, Sarah was appalled as HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., visited the CDC campus in Atlanta and blamed CDC employees for bringing the shooting upon themselves. After briefly granting CDC employees an opportunity to telework, they were required to return to office and continue working from bullet-riddled offices. Employees were left without mental health services and took it upon themselves to provide their own.

Connect with Sarah on LinkedIn or learn more about Violence Prevention Solutions on their website.

For more information about this episode, ⁠⁠⁠visit our website⁠⁠⁠.

If you enjoy Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on ⁠Ko-fi⁠, and ⁠follow us⁠⁠ on ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠, ⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠, ⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠, ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the CDC, the United States, or any past or current employers.

Mike Johnson would make an excellent first base coach for the Boston Red Sox. As an Interior Communications Electrician in the Navy, he honed the skills necessary to protect sensitive communications under stress. He also learned to foster growth and build high functioning teams—a skill he carried forward while mentoring veterans at the State Department and now as a civilian. He's no stranger to celebrities either. Mike worked with high ranking diplomats, and even met former Vice President Kamala Harris. Not to mention, he's got prior experience coaching first base with the Fairfax Little League.

As a Public Affairs Specialist with the Bureau of East Asian & Pacific Affairs, Mike managed crisis communications for high-visibility policy issues ranging everywhere from the Burmese military coup and North Korean missile launches to natural disasters and COVID. As a Program Analyst, he advised presidential appointment candidates on clearance and vetting processes and coordinated with the White Hose to manage all State Department presidential nomination packages.

In January 2025, Mike made the move to the Bureau of Overseas Buildings Operations Office of Policy and Program Analysis and prepared to lean into his leadership background before learning that he was being terminated as part of a Reduction-in-Force despite having tenure, veterans preference, and a stellar performance record.

Since leaving government, Mike has continued to mentor veterans, while also advancing his own professional interests. Mike is exploring opportunities in project management and corporate government affairs, as well as educational opportunities in Artificial Intelligence Management. Whether you're managing a Major League Baseball team or a communications program at a Fortune 500 company, Mike would make a great addition to your team.

Cheer Mike on via LinkedIn.

For more information about this episode, ⁠⁠visit our website⁠⁠.

If you enjoy Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on ⁠Ko-fi⁠, or ⁠follow us⁠⁠ on ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠, ⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠, ⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠, ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the United States, or any past or current employers.

Growing up, Christina Mesesan always knew she wanted to help people; she just wasn’t sure what that would look like. In the years following the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, and driven by the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission Report, Christina heeded the call to public service with the goal of integrating the FBI's national security workforce. During Christina's first assignment as an Intelligence Analyst at the FBI's New York Field Office, Christina leveraged her Masters degree in Diplomacy and International Relations from Seton Hall to advance counterintelligence investigations, while also using her Romanian language skills to support the FBI’s organized crime investigations.

Operation Ghost Stories: In June 2010, Christina’s intelligence work—along with the work of many special agents, intelligence analysts, linguists and professional staff—resulted in the disruption and arrest of ten Russian sleeper agents in the United States. Much to Christina’s dismay, she learned that one of her classmates from Seton Hall had been part of the spy ring and named publicly.   

Throughout her years with the FBI, Christina saw the intelligence cadre slowly gain a seat at the table with decision-makers, just as the 9/11 Commission had hoped. In the early years of 45's first administration, the FBI’s Intelligence Program gradually started losing that seat. Although the FBI seemed to consider allowing intelligence personnel more growth and promotion opportunities, executives kept adding more requirements and more check boxes, while the favoritism and blue flaming of the “good old boy network" of special agents bled over to promotion decisions in the intelligence program.

After bearing witness to former FBI Director Comey's unceremonious firing during his visit to the Los Angeles Field Office in 2017, Christina was disheartened and losing steam. In 2021, she left her work at the FBI for the County of Los Angeles. Since 2023, Christina has served as a Police Special Investigator in the Office of the Inspector General for the Los Angeles Police Department with hopes of one day becoming an Inspector General herself.

Now watching the mayhem of 47's second administration as an outsider, Christina reflects on early lessons learned from her mentor at the FBI, retired Executive Assistant Director Arlene Gaylord. Christina continues to follow Arlene’s advice by "putting on lipstick" and "serving drinks."

For more information about this episode, ⁠visit our website⁠.

If you enjoy Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on Ko-fi, or follow us⁠ on ⁠Instagram⁠, ⁠TikTok⁠, ⁠Bluesky⁠, ⁠LinkedIn⁠, ⁠YouTube⁠, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the United States, or any past or current employers.

Patty Hartman began her public service career as a member of the fourth estate 37 years ago as a news radio reporter in Wilmington, Delaware. In July 2007, after nearly twenty years in radio and TV journalism, Patty was drawn to federal service by her love of the law. She spent the next 18 years serving in various public affairs roles with the Department of Justice before being fired by Attorney General Pam Bondi on July 7, 2025.

Between 2019 and 2021, Patty worked as a public affairs specialist at the FBI Newark Field Office and the Drug Enforcement Administration. Since late 2022, Patty oversaw media engagement with the US Attorney's Office for the District of Columbia, which included the Superior Court for the District of Columbia, and press releases related to the 1,500 domestic terrorists who attacked the US Capitol on January 6th, 2021.

Within days of the beginning of the second Trump Administration, Patty's duties changed drastically, and she spent most of the next four months feeling alienated by her leadership. By May, Patty had observed a morale shift following the obliteration of the separation between the White House and DOJ, but a change in leadership at the USAO gave her hope that her situation would improve.

Hours after a July meeting with her new Director of External Affairs who had recently joined the office from Fox News, Patty was abruptly terminated and left scrambling to collect her personal effects before her last long train ride home.

Now, Patty is calling on former federal employees to run for public office and restore faith in the legislative branch's constitutionally-mandated checks and balances of the executive. Patty is still seeking opportunities to continue her career of service, volunteering with the National Active and Retired Federal Employees Association, and getting certified along with her beloved pup to do therapy visits for others in need.

Patty remains a beloved part of the extended FBI and DOJ family, and we're outraged and devastated by the administration's decision to politicize her role as a dedicated public servant. The January 6, 2021, attack on the US Capitol remains the single largest attack against the US Capitol since the British siege of Washington, DC during the War of 1812. Patty's role sharing information with the public about DOJ's effort to defend democracy should be admired not punished.

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If you enjoy Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on Ko-fi where we've set a goal to upgrade our hosting services.

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Watch Patty's interview with CBS News about her unlawful firing.

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Learn more about Patty from her hometown paper, The Philadelphia Inquirer.

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Read about former feds running for public office on the Federal News Network.

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For more information about this episode, visit our website.

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The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the United States, or any past or current employers.

Former Pentagon Police Officer Bryan Janick is about to be the star player in a whole new ball game as he opens Goatz Sportz Cardz in Herndon, Virginia.

Bryan began his career in public service by enlisting in the United States Marine Corps. During his four year enlistment, Bryan completed multiple deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan as a radio operator with 1st Battalion, 6th Marines. After his enlistment, Bryan returned to Michigan, finished his college degree, then made his way to Washington, DC, with a job offer from the Pentagon Police.

Bryan enjoyed his 16 years in public service, but during the pandemic, Bryan rekindled his love for collecting baseball cards. Bryan spent many socially distanced evenings opening card packs with his neighbors and building a community of baseball card and Pokemon card fans.

After attending multiple trade shows, Bryan realized he and his neighbors had more than enough cards to set up their own table and booth. Bryan and his neighbors started setting up at these shows. Bryan also found success selling cards and collectibles online through his eBay storefront.

In January 2025, Bryan decided to take a deferred retirement from federal service to pursue his passion by opening a brick and mortar cards and collectibles store in Northern Virginia.

On Saturday, November 1, 2025, Goatz Sportz Cardz will host its Grand Opening!

If you are in DC Metro area, go check it out at 208 Elden St., #102, Herndon, Virginia.

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Follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Bluesky, LinkedIn, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

If you enjoy Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on Ko-fi where we've set a goal to upgrade our hosting services.----------

Follow Goatz Sportz Cards on Facebook, Instagram, or check them out on eBay.

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Read about Bryan's ultimate trade with Bobby Witt, Jr. in Topps Ripped.

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Learn more about the Professional Sports Authenticator (PSA) process and how collectible grading works.

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Catch 'em all and check their stats in the Pokémon Trading Card Game database.

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Learn more about Becket Collectibles, another top grading company and PSA alternative.

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Learn more about James Spence Authentication, an autograph authentication service.

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Watch for Goatz Sportz Cardz events at Carpool Herndon.

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The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the United States, or any past or current employers.

From January until April of 2025, Dr. Ana Mitchell lived in fight or flight mode, not knowing each day if she would be part of the layoffs or Reduction-in-Force (RIF) actions of the new administration. On April 1, 2025, Ana lost her dream job as a Project Officer/Public Health Advisor with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in the Chronic Disease Center. In the midst of uncertainty and confusion, Ana turned her despair into action and rebranded herself as "Ana Fired Fed."

After her RIF notice, Ana spent a month recentering and acknowledging her anxiety and grief. At the urging of her friends, Ana shared her story of resilience through social media and was overwhelmed by the outpouring of support. Ana quickly gained a following of other former federal employees looking for ways to continue making a difference in their communities.

Now, Ana is on a mission to make civic engagement a part of people's everyday life. Ana is using social media to start a cultural revolution, making civic action accessible, authentic, and sustainable. Ana is determined to make civic engagement a lifestyle by helping people become civically fit and strengthening democracy.

Ana is taking to the internet to guide people on their civic fitness journeys whether they are beginner, intermediate, or advanced. One easy way to start is by practicing digital resistance. Digital resistance can be as simple as sharing information that is important to you on social media or commenting on posts for community reach.

Follow Ana on Instagram and TikTok to learn how taking consistent, small actions over time can make big impacts on your community.

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Follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Bluesky, LinkedIn, Mastodon, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

If you enjoy Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on Ko-fi where we've set a goal to upgrade our hosting services.

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After April Fools’ Day purge, U.S. health agencies spiral into chaos

Science, Vol 388, Issue 6743

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Read more about Ana's story at The Fed Up

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Read the notice terminating the Presidential Management Fellows Program

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Learn more about the ADKAR model

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Find ways to get civically engaged with the 5 Calls app

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Contact your elected officials all at once with Resistbot

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Sign the petition to Protect Public Health Employees from Continued Threats, Harassment, and Targeting

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Learn more about Heal the Bay

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Learn more about the Westside Food Bank in Santa Monica

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The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the United States, or any past or current employers.

As a retired Navy Captain, Dr. John Cordle knew the impact of fatigue management on force readiness. Following his retirement, Dr. Cordle completed his Doctorate of Engineering in Human Systems Engineering and rededicated himself to serving the Navy as a Human Factors Engineer. As a civilian employee, Dr. Cordle set out to identify signs of stress and fatigue and built systems to prevent future collisions at sea. In May 2025, Dr. Cordle left government service after finding that his moral compass no longer aligned with that of the current administration.

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To learn more about Dr. Cordle's experience and his former job, check out his recent CIMSEC article.

https://cimsec.org/dont-forget-the-lessons-of-the-2017-comprehensive-review/

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Read Dr. Cordle's op-ed in the Navy Times about why he chose to retire from government service.

https://www.navytimes.com/opinion/2025/06/18/why-i-left-government-service-my-moral-compass-no-longer-aligned/

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If you enjoy Dr. Cordle's writing, consider subscribing to his Substack.

https://substack.com/@johncordle573317

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Connect with Dr. Cordle on LinkedIn.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/cordlejp

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"Going Circadian: The United States Navy's Slow Road to Change" by Dr. John Cordle

https://www.amazon.com/Going-Circadian-United-States-Change/dp/B08924C38G

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"Oscar P. Dog: A Deployment Story and Guidebook for Military Kids 6-12" by Dr. John Cordle

https://www.amazon.com/Oscar-P-Dog-Deployment-Guidebook/dp/B088BGLGDS

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"Black Officer, White Navy: A Memoir" by Keith Green

https://www.kentuckypress.com/9781985900295/black-officer-white-navy/

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Watch out for John's next book coming out later this year, titled "Letters to Myself" from StoneTower Press

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If you're enjoying Forking Off with us, please help us reach our goal of improving our hosting infrastructure through a small contribution on Ko-fi!

https://ko-fi.com/forkingoff/goal

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The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the US Navy, the United States, or any past or current employers.