If you look at the data, you'll probably notice that traditional incarceration-focused criminal justice approaches are both extremely expensive and terribly ineffective. But, defying logic, they continue to be fairly popular. And when bold thinkers try to advance more sensible approaches, they sometimes get knocked down. In 2020, just days after Chesa Boudin's narrow election to become San Francisco's District Attorney (running on a platform of progressive reform), deep-pocketed out-of-state interests began the process of recalling him. The recall was successful, and in July of 2022 Boudin was unseated. His replacement, appointed by Mayor London Breed, was a member of his own prosecutorial team, Brooke Jenkins, who happened to have been one of the local leaders of the recall campaign. This week on Sea Change Radio, we welcome Chesa Boudin to the show for the first part of a two-part, far-ranging conversation to discuss his unique childhood with two incarcerated parents, evidenced-based approaches to criminal justice, and the bitter fight that nipped his promising tenure in the bud.

Narrator | 00:02 - This is Sea Change Radio covering the shift to sustainability. I'm Alex Wise.

Chesa Boudin (CB) | 00:19 - You can always, in any jurisdiction across the country, find some category of crime that in some period of time has gone up or has gone down. It's simply not an honest or effective way to think about either public safety or the role of prosecutors.

Narrator | 00:36 - If you look at the data, you'll probably notice that traditional incarceration-focused criminal justice approaches are both extremely expensive and terribly ineffective. But, defying logic, they continue to be fairly popular. And when bold thinkers try to advance more sensible approaches, they sometimes get knocked down. In 2020, just days after Chesa Boudin's narrow election to become San Francisco's District Attorney (running on a platform of progressive reform), deep-pocketed out-of-state interests began the process of recalling him. The recall was successful, and in July of 2022 Boudin was unseated. His replacement, appointed by Mayor London Breed, was a member of his own prosecutorial team, Brooke Jenkins, who happened to have been one of the local leaders of the recall campaign. This week on Sea Change Radio, we welcome Chesa Boudin to the show for the first part of a two-part, far-ranging conversation to discuss his unique childhood with two incarcerated parents, evidenced-based approaches to criminal justice, and the bitter fight that nipped his promising tenure in the bud.

Alex Wise (AW) | 01:45 - I am joined now on Sea Change Radio by Chesa Boudin. He is the executive director of the Criminal Law and Justice Center at the University of California Berkeley Law School. He's also the former district attorney of San Francisco. Chesa, welcome to Sea Change Radio.

Chesa Boudin (CB) | 02:18 - Great to be here with you.

Alex Wise (AW) | 02:20 - Why don't you first tell us about… how did your parents being incarcerated affect your path into criminal law?

Chesa Boudin (CB) | 02:28 - My parents were both arrested when I was 14 months old, and though I don't remember that day, or even when the judge sentenced my mother to 20 years to life, or when the judge sentenced my father to 75 years to life, my earliest memories as a child are waiting in lines to go through steel gates and metal detectors just to be able to see my parents, just to be able to give them hugs. I visited my parents in jails and prisons all across New York state over decades. My mom served 22 years before she was released. My father served 40 years before he was released. And so, you know, that experience was really a defining part of my childhood. Um, it's something that separated me from the other kids in my school, something that gave me a connection to a part of the American experience that I might not otherwise have had any awareness about, which is racism,