Fractals of Change

Disruption feels like destruction. Collapse. Failure. Something breaks, and we panic. But what if disruption isn’t the opposite of order? What if it’s how reality renews itself?

In this episode of Fractals of Change, Mary Schaub explores disruption as a universal pattern that appears wherever life, systems, and identities outgrow the forms that once sustained them. From forest fires to burnout, marriages to markets, civilizations to the psyche, disruption marks the moment when an old structure reaches its limit and must reorganize or collapse.

Disruption isn’t chaos. It’s a transition.

Summary:

We live in a culture obsessed with stability. We try to prevent disruption, control it, or—when that fails—weaponize it. But across nature, psychology, organizations, and history, disruption follows a consistent pattern.

Systems don’t change smoothly. They accumulate tension. They grow brittle. And when conditions shift beyond what a structure can hold, disruption arrives.

In ecosystems, fire clears dead matter and releases nutrients. Suppress it too long, and destruction becomes catastrophic. In the human psyche, burnout and breakdown often signal not weakness, but misfit—an identity that can no longer metabolize reality. In relationships, conflict surfaces what avoidance keeps hidden. In organizations and societies, delayed adaptation guarantees more violent reckoning later.

Drawing from complexity science, Stoic philosophy, Buddhism, indigenous wisdom, and lived experience, this episode reframes disruption not as punishment, but as pattern. The danger isn’t disruption itself. The danger is denial, acceleration beyond human capacity, and exploitation of fear.

The question isn’t how to stop disruption. It’s how to meet it wisely.

Takeaways:

💡 Disruption is not random destruction but a fractal breakpoint where an existing pattern exhausts its capacity

💡Stability held too long becomes brittle; disruption delayed becomes more violent

💡Psychological breakdowns often signal structural misfit, not personal failure

💡Healthy systems move through cycles of disruption, repair, and reorganization

💡Disruption becomes traumatic when it is too fast, unsupported, denied, or stripped of meaning

💡Wisdom lies not in controlling disruption, but in building the capacity to integrate it

Compelling Quotes:

🎤 “Disruption isn’t chaos. It’s a transition.”

🎤“Stability held too long becomes brittle.”

🎤“Some things end not because they failed, but because they completed their purpose.”

🎤“Disruption isn’t the enemy. It’s how reality learns.”

🎤“Life doesn’t choose between stability and disruption. It lives in the tension.”

Keywords:

Disruption, Change, Transformation, Complex systems, Burnout, Identity, Trauma and growth, Organizational change, Psychology of change, Stoicism, Buddhism, Systems thinking, Fractals of Change

Disclaimer:

***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.***

Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub

Contact: [email protected]  

Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)

Mary Schaub speaks with Alec Harris about how privacy, security, and personal risk have evolved in a world shaped by data brokers, algorithmic profiling, AI, and digital surveillance. Rather than focusing only on hackers and technical systems, they explore a more fundamental question: what are we protecting—and how visible have we become without fully realizing it?

They examine why privacy is not about “having something to hide,” but about autonomy, safety, and discernment. Along the way, they unpack metadata, device fingerprinting, dynamic pricing, reputational risk, AI’s double edge, and the growing gap between convenience and control.

This is not a conversation about disappearing. It’s about calibration—understanding where the risks are, what matters most, and how to make more conscious tradeoffs in a world that increasingly rewards exposure.

Topics

• Privacy vs. convenience in the digital age
• The “human attack surface” in cybersecurity
• Why metadata can be more revealing than content
• Data brokers and the commercial data economy
• Device fingerprinting and cross-platform tracking
• Dynamic pricing and behavioral targeting
• AI as both a defensive and offensive tool
• Public exposure, doxing, and reputational risk
• Practical digital security and privacy hygiene
• Balancing visibility with protection

Memorable Quotes

• “It’s less about who we have to protect ourselves from, and more about what we have to protect.”
• “You don’t have to be the fastest antelope. You just can’t be the slowest.”
• “The metadata around how we behave is often more revealing than what we say.”
• “You can have a public persona and still protect the crown jewels.”
• “It’s not about hiding. It’s about discernment and balance.”
• “Doing a little bit for a long time is a fantastic place to land.”

Resources

• How to Disappear — The Atlantic (on modern privacy and anonymity)
• The Age of Surveillance Capitalism — Shoshana Zuboff (data and behavioral prediction)
• Cambridge Analytica case (data-driven political targeting)
• GDPR (EU privacy and data protection law)
• Real-Time Bidding (RTB) (how user data is auctioned for ads)
• Device fingerprinting (tracking users across platforms)
• Managed attribution (how metadata reveals identity)
• Don’t F**k With Cats (online investigation and digital tracing)

Keywords  

privacy and security podcast, digital privacy, personal cybersecurity, metadata privacy, online privacy, data brokers, surveillance capitalism, AI and privacy, digital security tips, reputational risk online, device fingerprinting, real-time bidding data, how to protect your privacy online, why privacy matters, personal security in the digital age, social media privacy risks, cybersecurity for individuals, doxing and online harassment, AI security risks, privacy vs convenience

Disclaimer:

***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.***

Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub

Contact: [email protected]  

Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)

Why do individuals, relationships, organizations, and societies keep swinging between extremes—even when we know better?

In this solo episode of Fractals of Change, Mary Schaub explores polarity as a foundational pattern of reality: the dynamic tension between opposites that generates movement, meaning, and emergence. Drawing from physics, Jungian psychology, Taoism, systems theory, and lived experience, this episode reframes polarity not as a problem to solve, but as a law of motion to work with.

From personal shadow work to relationship dynamics, organizational leadership, and the weaponization of polarization in modern media and politics, Mary examines what happens when systems over-identify with one pole and suppress its opposite—and how integration, rather than oscillation, becomes the path to stability and growth.

Summary:

Polarity shows up everywhere: stability and change, order and chaos, control and freedom, innovation and governance, sensitivity and strength. When one pole is over-emphasized, the neglected opposite doesn’t disappear—it returns through symptoms, conflict, projection, or collapse.

This episode traces polarity across domains:

• Physics, where energy, motion, and structure only exist because of opposing forces
• Psychology, where suppressed traits return through shadow and compensation
• Relationships, where unintegrated opposites fuel cycles of pursuit, withdrawal, and rupture
• Organizations, where pendulum swings between centralized and decentralized models repeat endlessly
• Society, where polarity is increasingly weaponized through attention economics and identity-based conflict

Rather than choosing sides, Mary argues for developing the capacity to hold tension long enough for a third, integrative way to emerge—individually and collectively.

Takeaways:

💡Polarity is not conflict. It is the precondition for structure, movement, and emergence.

💡Suppressed opposites do not vanish—they accumulate and return through symptoms, projection, or crisis.

💡Extreme certainty creates brittleness, not strength, in individuals and systems.

💡Growth requires integration, not elimination, of uncomfortable traits and perspectives.

💡Leadership is polarity management: holding stability and change, innovation and governance, care and accountability simultaneously.

💡Modern polarization is often engineered, exploiting our cognitive and moral shortcuts for profit and power.

💡The “third way” emerges only when tension is held, not prematurely resolved.

Compelling Quotes:

🎤 “Polarity isn’t a problem to solve. It’s a law of motion.”

🎤“What we refuse to integrate doesn’t disappear—it returns through our behavior, our relationships, or our projections.”

🎤“Stability doesn’t live at the extremes. It lives between them.”

🎤“The work isn’t choosing a side. It’s holding the tension long enough for something new to emerge.”

🎤“Polarity isn’t ideological or psychological. It’s ontological—it’s how reality organizes itself.”

Links:

Polarity and Leadership

✅Polarity as a Leadership Lens & Complexity Frame— practical insight into why polarities aren’t problems to solve but dynamics to navigate.

✅Navigating Complexity: Managing Polarities (leadership and polarities) — practical insight into why polarities aren’t problems to solve but dynamics to navigate. 

✅

Disclaimer:

***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.***

Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub

Contact: [email protected]  

Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)

What if the systems we built to protect us are the very ones causing the most harm? Attorney, restorative justice advocate, and policy advisor at Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS),  Sia Henry joins Mary Schaub for an unflinching examination of the American criminal legal system.  The system doesn't heal harm. It relocates it, multiplies it, and sends it back into communities more concentrated than before.

But this episode isn't only about what's broken. It's about what's possible when we ask a different question — not "how do we punish?" but "how do we repair?" From New Zealand's indigenous-rooted restorative justice model to Norway's open prisons, from the radical promise of psychedelic-assisted therapy to a man walking out of prison for the first time able to read a grocery store label, Sia maps a landscape of alternatives that are cheaper, more humane, and demonstrably more effective. And she connects it all to something more intimate: the micro-moments in every life where we choose exile or encounter, punishment or presence.

 Key Topics

✅Accountability vs punishment (and why the distinction matters)

✅How incarceration relocates harm and destabilizes communities

✅Trauma, ACEs, hypervigilance, and survival adaptations

✅Psychedelic-assisted therapies as a compressed path to healing

✅Education and healthcare as public safety infrastructure

✅Interdependence vs individualism as a root cultural fracture

Key Takeaways

💡Punishment isn’t accountability. Repair requires understanding harm, making amends, and changing future behavior.

💡Incarceration compounds trauma. It harms families and communities, then returns people with fewer resources and more wounds.

💡Systems protect themselves. Even superior models face institutional resistance when budgets and headcount are at stake.

💡Healing scales. When individuals heal, families and communities stabilize—public safety improves upstream.

Memorable Quotes

🎤“No part of the system is about healing… it’s purely about punishment.” — Sia Henry

🎤“When we say we want that person held accountable, what we’re really saying is that we want punishment… revenge.” — Sia Henry

🎤“A child who’s not embraced by its village will burn it down to feel its warmth.” — African proverb, cited by Sia Henry

Resources & Links

🔗MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies): https://maps.org/

🔗Mount Tamalpais College (San Quentin): https://www.mttamcollege.edu/

🔗Jonathan Haidt — The Righteous Mind: https://jonathanhaidt.com/books/the-righteous-mind/

🔗Portugal drug decriminalization (overview): https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug-decriminalisation-in-portugal-setting-the-record-straight

Keywords  

Restorative justice, criminal legal system, mass incarceration, accountability vs punishment, trauma, ACEs, PTSD, recidivism, abolition, racial justice, capitalism, prison industrial complex, community safety, rehabilitation, diversion programs, victims’ rights, moral psychology, Jonathan Haidt, psychedelics, MAPS, PTSD treatment, education in prisons, Mount Tamalpais College, interdependence, Fractals of Change

Disclaimer:

***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.***

Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub

Contact: [email protected]  

Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)

There is no Amazon Prime for change. No tracking number. No estimated delivery date.

Change arrives quietly, like fog rolling over a coastline or new shoots breaking through ash after a fire. It doesn’t announce itself. It emerges.

In this episode, Mary Schaub explores emergence as one of the most fundamental patterns shaping human experience across art, nature, relationships, organizations, and society. From pointillist painting and jazz improvisation to career pivots, addiction recovery, corporate growth, and artificial intelligence, emergence reveals why transformation is both inevitable and profoundly uncomfortable.

Drawing on Taoism, systems thinking, leadership experience, and lived personal reflection, this episode examines why our instinct to control change so often backfires—and what capacities help us navigate uncertainty with more grace, curiosity, and resilience.

This is not an episode about optimism.

It’s about learning how to stay present while the story is still unfolding.

Disclaimer:

***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.***

Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub

Contact: [email protected]  

Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)

What happens when the victims no one talks about begin to speak?

In Part 2 of this raw and revealing conversation, Mary Schaub continues her dialogue with Jerome Elam—President and CEO of the Trafficking in America Task Force, U.S. Marine veteran, and child trafficking survivor. This episode turns toward the often-ignored experiences of boys who are trafficked, and the profound silence they’re forced to endure. Jerome opens up about the toxic myths surrounding masculinity, the societal blind spots that fail boys and men, and how easy access to online exploitation and misinformation is creating a generation disconnected from real connection, love, and healing.  

⚠️ Content Warning: This episode contains discussion of child sexual abuse, trafficking, suicide, and trauma. Listener discretion is advised.

🔑 Key Takeaways:

• Boys are trafficked too—and they’re often uncounted, unseen, and silenced
• Male survivors face unique stigma, which delays healing and increases risk of suicide, addiction, and isolation
• Pornography and social media are distorting relationships and rewiring expectations for intimacy—especially in young men
• Every act of kindness can become a lifeline. Vulnerability is a bridge
• Advocacy is healing. When survivors speak, they reclaim what was taken

🎤 Compelling Quotes:

“This isn’t a gender issue. It’s a human issue.” – Jerome Elam

“Many male survivors never even realize they were trafficked—until they hear someone else’s story.” – Jerome Elam

“When you reclaim your story, it stops being the thing that breaks you—and becomes the thing that fuels you.” – Mary Schaub

“The most beautiful sound? A survivor breaking their silence after years of silence.” – Jerome Elam

“What happened to me will always be part of me—but it no longer defines me.” – Jerome Elam

🔍 Keywords for SEO & Podcast Platforms:

Male trafficking survivor, boys and human trafficking, male sexual abuse, child exploitation, human trafficking awareness, trauma-informed podcast, trauma recovery, trauma therapy, pornography addiction, mental health for men, survivor stories, healing masculinity, Shobukai Shift, Mary Schaub, healthy relationship education, social media and trauma, suicide prevention

#ShobukaiShift #JeromeElam #MaleSurvivorsMatter #TraumaInformedLeadership #HumanTraffickingAwareness #SurvivorAdvocate #BreakingTheSilence #BoySurvivors #VulnerabilityIsStrength #TraumaHealing #PodcastOnTrauma 

🔗Links 

• National Center for Missing and Exploited Children: 1-800-THE-LOST (1-800-843-5678
• Trafficking in America Task Force
• Clown and the Candyman documentary
• Safe Harbor Laws 

Disclaimer:

***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.***

Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub

Contact: [email protected]  

Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)

"They say the truth will set you free. But first, it will break you open."

In this deeply moving episode, Mary speaks with Jerome Elam—USMC vet, child trafficking survivor, and CEO of America's Trafficking in America Task Force. From surviving unspeakable abuse to testifying before Congress and training law enforcement across the world, Jerome’s story is a powerful journey of resilience, transformation, and radical purpose. Part 1 dives into Jerome’s early life, the trauma he endured, the systemic failures, and the importance of trauma-informed leadership. 🎧 Part 2 coming next Wednesday. 

⚠️ Content Warning: This episode discusses child abuse, and self harm. Listener discretion is advised.

🔑 Key Takeaways:

• Trauma doesn’t end when it’s over—it echoes until it's witnessed, processed, and healed.
• Vulnerability is not weakness—it's the foundation of true leadership.
• Every survivor needs a lifeline 
• Reclaiming your story is a radical act of power.
• Breaking intergenerational trauma requires therapy, accountability, and immense courage.
• Public perception of trafficking is still catching up to its modern realities 
• Every person has a role to play in protecting the vulnerable 

🎤 Compelling Quotes:

• “I’ve turned my trauma into something beautiful.” – Jerome Elam
• “You don’t heal in spite of your trauma. You lead through it.” — Mary Schaub
• “It only takes one person to make a difference.” – Jerome Elam
• “We underestimate how a single act of kindness might be someone’s lifeline.” – Mary Schaub

💡Keywords: child trafficking survivor, male survivor of abuse, breaking generational trauma, trauma-informed leadership, trauma healing podcast, podcast on trauma, healing from abuse, leadership after trauma, trauma-informed coaching

#JeromeElam #TraumaInformedLeadership #HumanTraffickingAwareness #MaleSurvivor #TraumaHealing #PodcastOnTrauma #SurvivorVoices 

🔗Links Mentioned in this Episode:

• National Center for Missing and Exploited Children: 1-800-THE-LOST (1-800-843-5678
• Trafficking in America Task Force
• Clown and the Candyman documentary
• App Store Accountability Act

Disclaimer:

***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.***

Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub

Contact: [email protected]  

Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)

In this heartfelt follow-up to "The Well-Gardened Self," Mary reads and reflects on powerful listener stories about how nature has supported their personal transformations. From fire escape herb gardens to grief walks through the woods, these stories reveal nature as a quiet but potent ally in healing, connection, and growth.

Topics Covered:

🎯Nature and grief processing

🎯Everyday rituals of reconnection

🎯Community through gardening

🎯Intergenerational healing through outdoor time

🎯Why we’re not machines—we’re ecosystems

🎯Nature as metaphor for identity, care, and change

Key Takeaways:

💡Transformation is less about doing and more about becoming—like seasons, slowly and cyclically.

💡Engaging with nature can help us process grief.

💡Rituals in nature ground us and create stability.

💡Change is a natural part of life, as reflected in nature.

💡Caring for plants can awaken our desire to care for ourselves.

💡Nature fosters community and connection among people.

💡Silent companionship with nature can be deeply healing.

💡We are part of nature, not separate from it.

💡Nature invites us to return to our true selves.

💡Transformation often begins with small, intentional actions.

Compelling Quotes:

🎤“The forest held my grief in a way people couldn’t.”  

🎤“Nature doesn’t care about your resume. It cares about rhythm, effort, and patience.”  

🎤“You are not a machine. You are an ecosystem.” 

🎤“Nature doesn't care about your resume."

🎤"Nature is always inviting us to return."

Keywords: 

✅nature ✅healing stories ✅transformation and nature ✅grief and the outdoors, ✅mindfulness through gardening ✅ecosystem self-care ✅listener story episode ✅Shobukai Shift podcast ✅Mary Schaub ✅personal transformation stories ✅community gardens healing

#NatureHealing #TransformationJourney #GriefAndGrowth #MindfulGardening #ShobukaiShift #ListenerVoices #UrbanNature #EcosystemSelf #CommunityHealing #BeingBecoming

Disclaimer:

***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.***

Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub

Contact: [email protected]  

Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)

What if the key to navigating chaos isn’t more control—but more connection to nature?

In this episode, Mary explores how the natural world—gardening, birdwatching, even groundhogs—can heal us, grow us, and guide us through personal, organizational, and societal transformation. Drawing from Sue Stuart-Smith’s The Well-Gardened Mind, neuroscience, client stories, and her own pandemic experience, Mary unearths a simple but powerful truth: transformation is our nature.

Whether you're planting tomatoes, battling burnout, or feeding the birds, this episode will remind you:  Growth is messy. Nature is wise. And healing starts where you are.

Topics:

🎯Nature as a metaphor for personal evolution

🎯The neuroscience of growth and pruning

🎯Grounding, mindfulness, and biophilia

🎯Client stories of finding connection through nature

🎯Carl Jung, Erich Fromm, and the psychology of being

Key Takeaways:

💡Nature provides a living metaphor for change: cycles of death, renewal, and intention.

💡Engaging with nature activates right-brain attention and reduces stress.

💡You don’t have to escape to the woods to experience the healing power of nature—it starts with awareness.

💡Tending to a garden, or even a houseplant, can cultivate mindfulness, purpose, and connection.

Quotes:

🎤“When we sow a seed, we plant a narrative of future possibility. It is an action of hope.” – Sue Stuart-Smith

🎤“You are not a machine. You are an ecosystem.” - Mary Schaub

🎤“Nature meets us where we are—and grows us from there.”

🎤“Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.” – Carl Jung

Keywords:

✅nature and healing, ✅the well-gardened mind, ✅Sue Stuart-Smith, ✅gardening and mental health, ✅transformation through nature, ✅grounding, ✅burnout recovery, ✅biophilia, ✅mindfulness and nature, ✅Jung transformation ✅ Fractals of Change

#NatureHeals #TransformationPodcast #MentalHealthMatters #ShobukaiShift #Biophilia #MindfulLiving #PersonalGrowth #SlowLiving #GroundedLeadership #WellGardenedMind #JungianPsychology

Links:

🔗The Well Gardened Mind: Rediscovering Nature in the Modern World, by Sue Stuart-Smith. 

🔗Earthing documentary

Disclaimer:

***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.***

Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub

Contact: [email protected]  

Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)

In this engaging conversation, Mary Schaub speaks with Penny Cottrell and Ria Glenn DeMay about their journey from working in law and education to creating the Rewrite Workshops, a platform designed to help individuals explore their personal narratives and reclaim their power through writing. They discuss the transformative power of storytelling, the importance of community and connection in healing, and practical writing prompts for self-discovery. The conversation emphasizes the hero's journey in writing, the ripple effect of personal growth, and the significance of human connection in a digital age.

Takeaways:

💡Rewrite your story to reclaim your power.

💡Writing serves as a mirror and doorway to self-discovery.

💡Hurt people hurt people; heal people heal people.

💡You cannot use someone else's fire; you must find your own.

💡Life is too short to not pursue your passions.

💡Everyone is a natural storyteller, regardless of writing skills.

💡Healing is relational; we need each other.

💡Small changes can lead to significant transformations over time.

💡Community outreach is essential for supporting others.

💡Personal growth often comes from unexpected places.

Compelling Quotes:

🎤 "Each of us is both the writer and the protagonist of the story we're writing for ourselves.” — Mary Schaub

🎤“The power of rewriting your story isn’t just in the words—it’s in reclaiming your voice.” — Ria Penny

🎤“Writing gives us a mirror and a doorway. We see ourselves more clearly, and we step into a version of ourselves that is just a little bit more whole.” — Rewrite Workshops Blog

🎤“Healing is relational. Transformation is relational. We need each other for the real work to take root.” — Mary Schaub

🎤“I want to know who I am without the trauma, without the pressure to be perfect—just Ria, as she is.” — Ria Penny

🎤“We’re trying to bring back the fire—to be the mentors we needed when we were lost.” — Penny Cottrell

Show Links:

🔥The Rewrite Workshops 🔥

🌟The Rewrite Workshops (Substack) 🌟

Keywords:

✅ Rewrite Workshops, ✅ writing and healing, ✅ personal transformation, ✅ hero’s journey, ✅ shadow work, ✅ creative healing, ✅ journaling, ✅ storytelling for growth, ✅ trauma recovery, ✅ women’s empowerment, ✅ mindfulness, ✅ Joseph Campbell, ✅ narrative therapy, ✅ self-discovery, ✅ purpose-driven change, ✅ relational healing, ✅ raising strong boys ✅ Fractals of Change 

Disclaimer:

***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.***

Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub

Contact: [email protected]  

Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)