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Frank and Stan Chats
By Frank Norris and Stan JohnsonEducation
Frank and Stan Chats episodes
- Frank and Stan Chat No.163The two gents are joined by three senior education leaders from the south coast. Shelley Baker, Will Baldwin and Grainne Byrd share a strong commitment to the importance of citizenship and use it to drive school improvement through engagement and connection. An interesting week for the chat with the Prime Minister announcing a number of education and infrastructure decisions. The chat considers many of these and reflects on how open and transparent the decision-making process was and how it contrasts with the way the education leaders would have made important decisions. If you fancy an insight into the Post 16 exam reforms, cancellation of HS2, the persistent problem of poor attendance, schools as a sanctuary and the use of the word 'I' then this chat is for you.
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32 min - Frank and Stan Chat SPOTLIGHT with Dr Rebecca LawtonA few months ago Dr Rebecca Lawton was a guest on the weekly Frank and Stan Chat. During the discussion, she mentioned a number of initiatives she had introduced to improve teacher workload, recruitment and retention. We invited Rebecca back to focus fully on her initiatives including the introduction of a 4 day week for staff. It is an amazing chat that captures innovation, leadership and a real commitment to the wellbeing of staff and pupils.
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25 min - Frank and Stan Chat No. 162It is an absolute pleasure to spend an hour each week chatting formally (while recording) and informally (prior to and after the recording) with our guests. This week Aelwyn Pugh, a former longstanding HMI, joined our chat and provided real food for thought around what a broad and balanced curriculum looks like and whether it is actually available for all pupils. Stan considers a new approach for the DfE where they announce that they are addressing workload issues by in effect stopping things that teaching staff don't actually do. Frank makes clear why Ofsted subject reports should be all about what inspectors found. It is a really interesting chat and throughout Aelwyn offers his great sense of humour and incredible insight.
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38 min - Frank and Stan Chat No.161Timing is very important in ensuring we get the right guest at the right time. In the world of Frank and Stan Chat much of this is down to luck. Today's edition is a good example because the night before this edition Co-operative UK, the organisation that Rose Marley is CEO won the Business of the Year Award at a glitzy Manchester venue. Rose is a great guest because she raises important points for education drawn from non-education events. A good example is the way she considered the apology from the Police regarding the arrest of protestors at the Sarah Everard vigil. She explains how protest is important, how various governments have tried to restrict it and how this approach leans into education. The chat rolls on to school uniform, the place of cooperatives in academic studies at school, the place of the MBacc, the need for a wide experience for students including skills, the importance of whistleblowing and why it should be encouraged, why the death of BTECs is a crime for some poorer and lower attaining students and a host of other things. It's a cracking chat. Frank and Stan are lucky to know these wonderful guests who add so much to our weekly discussions. Enjoy.
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41 min - Frank and Stan Chat No. 160After a break of five weeks to recharge the batteries the two long time friends are back for their 5th academic year. This week's chat focuses on the problems some schools and the government have encountered regarding aerated concrete. A week when the Secretary of State for Education swore during an interview with ITV, when some schools returned their building survey questionnaires to find the DfE didn't have an accurate list and Sir Martyn Oliver was interviewed by the Education Select Committee. In addition, the gents chat about their journey as inspectors and why having a Chief Inspector who understands inspection is an important attribute. Also Frank reflects on his support for Southend United and why, during a period of immense uncertainty Kevin Maher, their manager, has managed to encourage the team to play for the fans, the town and their own self respect. He is showing some outstanding leadership. And finally, Stan makes public his gratitude for what Frank does!!!! Enjoy.
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41 min - Frank and Stan Chat No. 159: The Chris Murphy EditionA rather personal Frank and Stan Chat for Frank this week as he has invited a good friend of his son, Chris Murphy, as the guest. Chris chose not to follow the path many of his friends followed when they left secondary school and College finally ending up at university. Chris chose an apprenticeship through a sprinkler installation business and this has enabled him to progress to be a Director of the business. He also identified a problem in how businesses order and quote for work so he has developed an app called ONSO, which enables greater control of the process and enables users to investigate the data more accurately. Stan kicks off by questioning The Express newspaper and the PM and Chancellor's basic understanding of mathematics, before Chris considers whether footballers should have a higher moral benchmark than others and Frank congratulates Ofsted for his insightful report on T Levels. It's the final chat of the academic year and a great one to sign off for five weeks. Enjoy.
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39 min - Frank and Stan Chat No.158: The Nihad Cehic EditionAnother great guest this week as Frank and Stan Chat about Artificial Intelligence (or at least Nihad Celic does), the Secretary of State believes headteachers should provide one of the most expensive taxi services in the country and the honesty of a footballer revealing his mental health challenges. The section on AI is worth watching alone as Nihad explains how the emphasis on knowledge is currently misplaced and why we need to develop greater appreciation of human contact and expression for our youngest pupils as teaching and learning morphs into something never seen before. Fascinating. Nihad also explains how he has developed a digital product that reduces workload and improved feedback to pupils. You can find out more at https://vibbl.co.uk
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36 min - Frank and Stan Chat No. 157: The Dr Gill L'Anson EditionThis week Frank and Stan Chat with clinical psychologist Dr Gill L'Anson about her work on leadership and how the pandemic has affected the wellbeing of senior leaders. Gill brings her research and insight to bear on the issues of the week. She stresses the need to draw on 'the best psychological knowledge we have to help improve things..... and we need to be much less polarised'. Stan chats about a tweet he had read about not hugging a child, then Gill considers the considered nature of a letter that a group of female students sent to Rishi Sunak about single sex toilets and Frank reflects on teachers' strike and lack of information for every school to be able to set a budget all of which boil down to the government's unwillingness to be open. One of the most enjoyable chats of the year. let us know what you think.
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35 min - Frank and Stan Chat No. 156: The James Eldon EditionThis week the two gents chat to James Eldon, Principal at Manchester Academy, a member of the Headteachers' Roundtable and advocate for the thinking around the recently announced MBacc. The chat begins with Stan reflecting on the power of Ministers in ordering or demanding that Ofsted inspects a school where a story about a student identifying as a Cat ran wild in newspapers recently. James considers the implications of this event on the most senior leader in the school and why these issues hinder colleagues from taking the most senior position in our schools. He then looks at the retention of staff in general and explains why change in complex schools is often not in line with the regularity of Ofsted inspections. Frank then applauds the latest report on EDI from the English and Wales Cricket Board. he draws attention to the challenges faced by those wanting to progress in the sport from poorer communities. James concludes the chat by explaining why he got involved in the MBacc and why it is an attempt to try and offer a more meaningful route for those not wanting a purely academic one. Great chat, even if we say so ourselves. Hope you enjoy.
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48 min - Frank and Stan Chat No. 155: The Lucy Truman Returns again editionThis week our chat needed a quick change of plan. The planned guest was unable to join us but fortunately, Lucy Trueman Founder and CEO of TruemanChange Ltd was available. Having been a guest three times previously Lucy knew the ropes so we just ploughed into the weekly education chat. Stan considered the events in parliament and how he felt that a clearer sign of collective responsibility across the House would have been helpful. He related the issue to governing bodies formally agreeing to a decision made by one of the sub-committees. Frank then asked Lucy to explain whether local authorities had, on the whole, reverted back to pre-pandemic working practices or whether some had taken the decision to work differently? The answer was encouraging. Lucy then discussed how recruitment practices had developed a risk averse approach which sometimes meant that potentially strong candidates did not shine through. She also offered insight into how some were using a more varied assessment approach. Frank then shared the findings of a recent research paper into regional inequalities and how it emphasised the need for education but also some important macro factors to be included. The link to the report is at the end of the video. Another enjoyable discussion with Lucy. She now holds the record number of appearances as a guest on the chat. Enjoy.
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34 min
About Frank and Stan Chats
From the publisher's feed
Frank Norris and Stan Johnson have been friends since 1995. Both have had successful and lengthy careers in education. Frank was a very senior HMI with Ofsted for 11 years and was the CEO of the Coop…
Academies Trust for 6 years. Stan was seconded to Ofsted for a year and then returned to headship before working as a senior adviser with Lancashire LA. He has latterly led a successful education consultancy in the North West. Prior to Covid-19, the two gents would meet in Manchester for a pint or two but the pandemic put an end to that. On 1 May 2020, they recorded their first video chat as a way of recording their emotions and reactions to the pandemic. After putting the video on Youtube as a safe place to store it they realised that some followers began to appear. Now, with nearly 180 episodes and having chatted to Professors, CEOs, journalists, teachers, former HMI, education thinkers and Frank's Key Stage 1 leading daughter they have a loyal following and a rapidly increasing number of viewers. The reach of the Frank and Stan Chat stretches from Bogota to Ottawa to Greece and their first Live Edition was recorded in front of nearly 200 Headteachers in York. The Chats are not undertaken to attract followers or for financial reward (nothing is received and nothing will be received). It is a way of airing views on education matters between two professional friends with a focus on leadership. We are honoured to be invited to host the weekly chats on the Leader-connect website www.leader-connect.co.uk. The chats helped the gents get through the pandemic and they are delighted that they have been enjoyed by others and appear to have helped in developing leadership thought and actions. If you fancy being a guest then just reach out. We never post a video unless the guest is comfortable with it. So, it is a relatively risk-free environment. Thank you. Frank and Stan. PS. We were honoured to be identified as one of the Top 50 education and leadership podcasts in THE WORLD!!! We can't believe it, but it appears to be true.
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