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Frank and Stan Chats
By Frank Norris and Stan JohnsonEducation
Frank and Stan Chats episodes
- Frank and Stan Chat No. 211The two gents are delighted to be able to welcome back Sarah Davies, an Assistant Headteacher, keynote speaker and author with a keen interest in oracy. Sarah provides an interesting update on where the oracy issue is at the moment and provides some underlying principles for how it should or could be introduced into every teacher's classroom. Stan considers what he's gained from a garage clearance and reflects on how useful it is for all in education to just reflect on what is useful and what is not. Sarah considers changes to the AQA syllabus for GCSE and how they will impact on what students learn and how they express themselves. Frank closes off the chat with a reflection on some CEO salaries and how excessive they are, in his view. It's another great chat. We hope you enjoy it as much as we did recording it. Until next week.
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41 min - Frank and Stan Chat No. 212The two gents are delighted to be able to welcome back Sarah Davies, an Assistant Headteacher, keynote speaker and author with a keen interest in oracy. Sarah provides an interesting update on where the oracy issue is at the moment and provides some underlying principles for how it should or could be introduced into every teacher's classroom. Stan considers what he's gained from a garage clearance and reflects on how useful it is for all in education to just reflect on what is useful and what is not. Sarah considers changes to the AQA syllabus for GCSE and how they will impact on what students learn and how they express themselves. Frank closes off the chat with a reflection on some CEO salaries and how excessive they are, in his view. It's another great chat. We hope you enjoy it as much as we did recording it. Until next week.
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38 min - Frank and Stan Chat No. 210Life is full of contradictions and this week's chat is no exception. The two gents reflect on the knowledge, skills, understanding, attitudes and behaviours necessary for living in today's world and the one that is coming. Stan considers the challenges he has faced in rebuilding a family member's bathroom. It has been a journey of discovery both for him and for those he has sought help from during the past three weeks. Frank reflects on the PM's speech about AI and considers whether all of the connections have been made in terms of what is taught in schools and whether there is clarity on how to achieve this. The government wants growth and it will need to do more to ensure education delivers what the economy needs moving forward. So, the chat highlights a possible contradiction or does it?. Stan wants more traditional life skills so that young people can make the most of their lives as well as supporting the drive for economic growth whereas Frank wants to focus fully on the future where AI will be a key feature. But, all of these aspects are central to successful personal and national futures. We definitely need greater clarity on all of this and a shift away from viewing the academic route as the preferred route. This is where the PM missed a trick, in our opinion. We hope you enjoy the chat.
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38 min - Frank and Stan Chat No. 209Frank and Stan are delighted to welcome back Lisa Fathers. Lisa was a guest in Edition 164 just over a year ago. During that time she's been promoted to Deputy CEO of the trust. The start of 2025 has seen a very cold spell and no let up on the education news front. This week Stan considers the power of AL and the somewhat circular nature of some of its insight. Lisa then picks up the baton to consider the Schools Bill that passed its Second Reading this week as well as the impact of the various news stories around child exploitation. Frank then considers the data on GCSE resits and how the current approach blocks pathways for too many young people. We also have time to reflect on the various tricky decisions school leaders have had to make this week about whether to open or close due to the cold weather conditions. For every parent/carer who agrees with the decision there is likely to be just as many dumbfounded by it. Enjoy.
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32 min - Frank and Stan Chat No. 208
The final chat of 2024 sees Eric Craven 'The Scouse Poet' return for his fourth appearance as a guest on the chat. He reads some of his whimsical poems and Stan offers one to him! We also reflect on five chats drawn from the year that made an impression long after they were broadcast. We have been fortunate to have so many colleagues willing to join our chats each week and as we always say these are the real stars. We have noticed that some very high profile guests often receive correspondingly high viewing and listening figures. We have tried here to highlight guests with a lesser profile but who offer fascinating insights. The chats that are specifically covered in this edition are:
Aelwyn Pugh Edition 187
Emma Ainsworth Edition 195
Dr Vic Carr Edition 207
Neil Sheldon Edition 184
Lisa Lea Weston Edition 176
Have a happy Christmas and a great New Year. We are back on 10th January with guests already lined up into the second half of 2025.
Best wishes
Frank and Stan
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43 min - Frank and Stan Chat No. 207
Dr Vic Carr was a popular and insightful guest back on our chat in April so we decided to invite her back again. She is a mum to two young adults, the school dog, primary school Headteacher, Reserve Officer in the British Army Intelligence Corps, Chartered Manager, 'CollectivED' Fellow at Carnegie School of Education, Leeds Beckett University, Fellow of the Chartered College of Teaching, Senior Research Fellow at the Centre for Army Leadership, author and TEDx speaker who focuses on leadership, the power of language and how we all have the power to change lives.
This chat opens with Stan again reflecting on how the lack of a clear national education strategy is preventing many who want to drive change and improvement from engaging in a meaningful way. Vic explains how she is managing this period of uncertainty and is trying to hold back from a feeling of disappointment, through having a belief that things will improve eventually. She considers the points made by Sam Freedman in his recent book 'Failed State' that explain the inner workings of the previous government wanting a catchy news item for the weekend newspapers. Frank then gets around his 'no Ofsted pledge' by reading a recent Linkedin article from Adrian Gray on the 'non-event' that was the annual Ofsted report. https://www.linkedin.com/in/adrian-gray-23642442/
Another amazing chat with a committed school leader. We are the lucky colleagues who have the privilege to chat with so many brilliant people involved in education. Enjoy.
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38 min - Frank and Stan Chat No. 206
This week the gents are joined by Emma Knights, the former CEO of the National Governors Association (NGA) and someone who was last on the chat as a guest in May 2021 (our 55th edition of the chat). Emma led the NGA for 15 years and transformed it into a more robust, open-facing member organisation. She stood down from the CEO this summer and has begun to carve out a different role that includes writing insightful pieces for Schools Week on Report Cards as well as enjoying more cultural experiences in the Midlands and further afield.
The chat starts by discussing how Emma has felt moving away from a high-profile role and how the NGA successfully managed the transition to the new CEO. We discuss the changes and developments in governance structures and how they need to continue to move with the times and the demands on the sector.
Stan raises concerns about the Australian government's plans to ban Under 16s from using some (not all) social media platforms. he has concerns on how this will be policed. Emma then reflects on the recent COP in Baku and how it didn't really consider the education angle. This was in stark contrast to the Glasgow COP event. We then consider whether sustainability ought to be a Report Card indicator.
Frank completes the chat by reflecting on a recent meeting he had with two former colleagues who have stepped away from their trust roles. He considers their honesty, sensitivity, professionalism and kindness. Major qualities, he believes in a sector concerned with children and young people's development.
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48 min - Frank and Stan Chat No. 205
It dawned on us as we were planning for this week's chat that we had never really covered the area of Youth Work in any depth. Well, we managed to put that straight this week through chatting with Owen Sedgwick-Jell, the Head of Membership and Programmes at the Woodcraft Folk. Woodcraft Folk is a charity that works with young people across the country offering a place where children can grow in confidence, learn about the world and start to understand how to value our planet and each other. It is celebrating its Centenary in 2025 and is keen to increase awareness of its work. Owen explains its connection with the cooperative movement and why it's different to other youth organisations. Woodcraft Folk is run entirely by voluntary donations so if you feel able to support they'd welcome the help. https://woodcraft.org.uk/donate/friends/
Stan considers the lack of an education strategy at the moment and its impact on a range of issues. Owen then reflects on the increase in suspensions and exclusions and the possible reasons for this. Frank then points to a recent evaluation of the Behaviour Hub initiative that suggested pupils felt that standards of behaviour had deteriorated slightly whereas staff thought it had improved slightly.
It's a great chat and ventures into new territory for the Frank and Stan Chat.
Before we reach the closing credits Frank promotes the work of Russell Harvey, the Resilience Coach, who has been a guest on the chat many times. Russell has taken a short break but is now back and available for work. His details are [email protected].
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36 min - Frank and Stan Chat No. 204
A regular guest to the chat returns this week as we welcome Carolyn Eyre to discuss developments, insights and future changes to safeguarding arrangements. Carolyn worked in the Local Authority safeguarding arena for many years, first in Education Welfare services before becoming Child Protection coordinator for a large local authority. More recently, she was Head of Health, Safety & Wellbeing for the authority - combining also the roles of Senior Allegations Manager and Safer Recruitment lead officer. Carolyn is well known for her work with FE colleges and is regularly invited to speak at national conferences on topics ranging from 'partnership working' through 'creating a safe school culture' to the 'preventive curriculum'. Carolyn has a particular interest in the protection of children and young adults with disabilities; her knowledge and understanding of the complexities of safeguarding vulnerable groups has won her many friends in the special school sector nationally. She has been the safeguarding adviser to NASS and its members for more than 12 years. As a member of the Safer Recruitment Consortium task group, Carolyn was heavily involved in re-writing the national Safer Recruitment training materials launched in September 2014 and delivers T4T events nationally. So, she knows her stuff!
The chat starts with Stan considering the reliability of Ofsted subject reviews which have been heavily criticised this week for the way research evidence appears to have been manipulated to offer a preferred view on pedagogy., Carolyn then explains the significant changes to the VAT arrangements for Independent Special Schools, many of which are not-for-profit organisations and support some of the most vulnerable young people. She then considers the many changes to safeguarding arrangements that are going to be introduced for Early Years settings next year. Frank then reflects on a chat he had with a prominent CEO of a charity where it became clear that more needed to be done to support the literacy and numeracy skills of adults.
It's an enjoyable chat. We have already booked Carolyn for this time next year for another chat.
Enjoy!
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41 min - Frank and Stan Chat No. 203This week the two gents chat with Maxine O'Neill, a Headteacher of a special school in Liverpool and her brother Prof Adam Boddison. They are co-authors of the book 'The Secret Life of SENCOs' and provide a clear insight into the practical and strategic challenges faced by school leaders and the government in improving SEND provision. The chat covers several themes from their book as well as the attention given to SEND by the Secretary of State this week and as Adam points out the focus on SEND funding in the recent Chancellor's budget statement. Stan reflects on the ability of academies to revert back to LA control. He believes it would be very difficult and challenging. Adam considers the National Audit Office report on SEND funding and how it is leading government thinking. Maxine brings us all down to earth by explaining the varied jobs she has had to undertake this week due to some severe staff shortages due to illness at her school. It's an illuminating chat and we believe will offer insight and a high degree of optimism for the future. Enjoy.
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35 min
About Frank and Stan Chats
From the publisher's feed
Frank Norris and Stan Johnson have been friends since 1995. Both have had successful and lengthy careers in education. Frank was a very senior HMI with Ofsted for 11 years and was the CEO of the Coop…
Academies Trust for 6 years. Stan was seconded to Ofsted for a year and then returned to headship before working as a senior adviser with Lancashire LA. He has latterly led a successful education consultancy in the North West. Prior to Covid-19, the two gents would meet in Manchester for a pint or two but the pandemic put an end to that. On 1 May 2020, they recorded their first video chat as a way of recording their emotions and reactions to the pandemic. After putting the video on Youtube as a safe place to store it they realised that some followers began to appear. Now, with nearly 180 episodes and having chatted to Professors, CEOs, journalists, teachers, former HMI, education thinkers and Frank's Key Stage 1 leading daughter they have a loyal following and a rapidly increasing number of viewers. The reach of the Frank and Stan Chat stretches from Bogota to Ottawa to Greece and their first Live Edition was recorded in front of nearly 200 Headteachers in York. The Chats are not undertaken to attract followers or for financial reward (nothing is received and nothing will be received). It is a way of airing views on education matters between two professional friends with a focus on leadership. We are honoured to be invited to host the weekly chats on the Leader-connect website www.leader-connect.co.uk. The chats helped the gents get through the pandemic and they are delighted that they have been enjoyed by others and appear to have helped in developing leadership thought and actions. If you fancy being a guest then just reach out. We never post a video unless the guest is comfortable with it. So, it is a relatively risk-free environment. Thank you. Frank and Stan. PS. We were honoured to be identified as one of the Top 50 education and leadership podcasts in THE WORLD!!! We can't believe it, but it appears to be true.
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