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Frank and Stan Chats
By Frank Norris and Stan JohnsonEducation
Frank and Stan Chats episodes
- Frank and Stan Chat SPOTLIGHT No.11In the 11th SPOTLIGHT Edition of the Frank and Stan Chat we meet Phil Naylor, an experienced senior leader, author and advocate for working in the most challenging schools. His new book 'Some schools are harder than others' draws on the experiences of many brilliant teachers and leaders in some of the most disadvantaged communities across the country. Phil interviews these colleagues to help better understand why they are successful and what have they done that's made such a difference. Phil is honest and open about his own experiences and provides a useful insight into the qualities required to be successful in tough schools.
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35 min - Frank and Stan Chat No. 202With Stan away on other duties this week's chat is co-hosted by the amazing Kendra Allen. We are joined by a relative of hers, Alun Davies. Both colleagues have been guests on the chat many times so we venture into a host of issues including the need for young people to be given the chance to lead on major global issues such as the use and disposal of plastics, why its not worth anyone's time to consider whether chimps might (or might not) be able to write the works of Shakespeare given enough time and why we all need to consider whether the governance arrangements for inspectorates and regulators are sufficiently robust and independent. It's a belting chat. We hope you enjoy it. There are many upbeat elements to it, so it's not all doom and gloom.
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43 min - Frank and Stan Chat SPOTLIGHT No.10The latest Spotlight edition of the Frank and Stan Chat focuses fully on how to encourage more music, including singing in our schools. Today's guest is Charlotte Wicks, an opera singer who has sung around the world in some of the most prestigious venues, who's now turning her attention to encouraging children and adults of all ages to perform and sing together. As co-founder of Intergenerational Opera, a community based organisation, she has led the development of a programme that brings pupils/students of all ages together through music with older members of society. Charlotte talks openly about the challenges she faced in performing regularly at the highest level and why this forced her to reflect on what she wanted to do with the musical talent she possesses. Reaching out to smaller community groups led to a shift in her career which has seen the establishment of Intergenerational Opera and a Silver Award winner for this year's Pearson Awards. She has her fingers crossed for a Gold Award at the final event in November. The chat is wholesome, thought provoking and ultimately uplifting. If you want to know more about her work just go to www.intergenerationalopera.com.
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41 min - Frank and Stan Chat No. 201This week the gents are joined by Kathryn Loftus, Director of Education Alliance for Life Chances, a locally led initiative in Bradford that flowed from the work involved in the city's Opportunity Area. Kathryn explains how the alliance has brought together willing supporters of key service providers delivering for children, young people and families. The alliance understands the complex nature of children's services and how best they are delivered. This has led to a number of fascinating projects including three place-based programmes and a continuing focus on data analysis to ensure services are what the community wants and needs. Kathryn is a strongly committed and principled leader and provides a very reason for greater investment in community programmes. We have limited time for the 'what caught your eye this week?' section but Stan covers the crazy suggestion that young children should not be writing words that they have not yet been formally introduced to. Kathryn references research that links premature death to weak education outcomes while Frank finishes off the chat by covering the government's attempts to strengthen online safety for children and young people. Great chat. We hope you enjoy it as much as we did.
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40 min - Frank and Stan Chat SPOTLIGHT No.9
The Teachertoolkit website is one of the most visited teacher development websites in the world with over 20 million hits. Ross began teaching in 1991 and taught for 26 years in London's national-challenge (secondary) schools; 20 years as a school leader. Today, he works with teachers and schools worldwide, enhancing teaching and learning, reducing workload and improving teacher mental health. A multiple award-winning teacher, in 2015, The Sunday Times featured Ross as one of the ‘500 Most Influential People in Britain’. He remains the only classroom teacher to feature to this day, and is the author of 11 teaching books.
We reached out to Ross and he was keen to chat about his work, why he decided to move from teaching into blogging, writing books and offering keynotes to schools around the world.
Our chat covers a lot of ground but focuses on being an entrepreneur, taking the plunge away from a settled career into an unknown future, what shapes his current thinking and how he sees teaching in the future.
It's a friendly, relaxed and informed chat and we hope you enjoy it.
www.teachertoolkit.co.uk
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44 min - Frank and Stan Chat No. 200
In May 2020, Frank Norris and Stan Johnson met online. Frank decided to press a button on the Zoom link and a recording had been made. He then decided to post to Youtube so that there could be a permanent record of the chat. Over four years have passed and in this 200th edition the gents are joined by Sir Michael Wilshaw, the former HMCI between 2012 and late 2016. The chat covers a host of issues including Michael's relationship with Michael Gove and Dominic Cummings, his reaction to the Trojan Horse events shortly after his appointment, the shift in emphasis to regional delivery of inspection and his current concerns about the inspection Framework. Michael is honest, direct and reflective. If you are interested in the development of children and young people's services by Ofsted and where it might go in the future then this chat provides some important insights.
It's been a treat having weekly chats with a host of amazing guests. The Frank and Stan Chat is not about viewing or listening figures. It is about the relaxed nature of the chat. Invariably our guests tell us they enjoy the experience and many want to come back for a return visit.
We have guests lined up into the middle of 2025 but are still keen to hear from colleagues who may bring a different or fresh insight. You can contact Frank and Stan Chat by commenting on the most recent chat. We will then reach out.
A big thank you to our supporters and followers, our guests, Kendra Allen and Susan Breckell for standing in for Stan when he's been away and to Rick Dawson and Paul Johnson who produced two amazing theme tunes.
Best wishes
Frank and Stan
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47 min - Frank and Stan Chat No. 199
This week the two gents are joined by Chaelsea Slater, CEO and co-founder of the social enterprise organisation called InnovateHer. Chelsea found herself working on marketing within a male dominated tech business and decided to do something about it. She joined forces with Jo Morfee and created Liverpool Girl Geeks. They both left their jobs when they realised the work required their full commitment and began the arduous task of securing funding from business to support their drive to get more females into the tech world and those businesses ready for more female employees. InnovateHer has some impressive businesses backing them but the challenge remains significant both in terms of increasing the reach of InnovateHer and ensuring there is a secure funding base to underpin their work. Chelsea reflects on the ups and downs of being a CEO but she remains committed to the original goal of improving female opportunities.
As we chat about recent events Stan considers the wisdom of a Trust CEO considering whether teaching staff should abandon the 1265 contractual hours they are contracted to work. We all add that most teachers we know far exceed those hours at the moment. Chelsea reflects positively on the PM's comments about the power and benefit of the creative arts. She welcomes any move that extends opportunities for pupils. Finally, Frank is heartened by the heavy emphasis placed on digital skills in the recently published Skills England paper. Stan enquires whether InnovateHer would be open to working with Primary aged pupils. They would but, not just yet.
It's a great chat. We will definitely invite Chelsea back to provide an update on InnovateHer and whether the renewed commitment to the creative arts has been maintained.
Enjoy.
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46 min - Frank and Stan Chat No. 198
We've always been interested in chatting with teachers who have undertaken research into areas we have not chatted about. This week Caroline Popplewell, a Primary School teacher from the North West joins the gents to discuss her school based Masters research into the introduction of the Eco-School programme. She explains the challenges she faced in balancing her other school commitments but ultimately was pleased to see such a positive response from the children. We then considered how best to spread the practice so that more children could benefit.
Stan reflected on some of the leadership issues that have appeared within the new government and whether they could or should have been avoided. We shifted these issues into school scenarios where it is relatively easy to be conflicted through receiving a small gift or a favour. Caroline then praises the efforts of a local business that supplied fans of Morecambe FC ear defenders and spinning widgets for those that might be anxious about the noise and hustle and bustle during the game. Frank then reflects on a wonderful session provided by Everton Nursery at a major Liverpool Education conference today. The emphasis was on the meaning of education and it aligned so neatly with many of our videocast and podcast chats. An uplifting and positive experience.
Highly enjoyable chatting with Caroline and we hope you gain some important insights and areas to reflect upon to improve your teaching and leadership. If that's the case (or not) then please let us know.
Until next week when we are joined by Chelsea Slater, CEO and joint Founder of InnovateHer.
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40 min - Frank and Stan Chat No. 197
This week the gents are delighted to welcome Prof Mel Ainscow back as a guest. Mel is Emeritus Professor of Education, and an internationally recognized authority on the promotion of inclusion and equity in education. Previously a head teacher, local education authority adviser and lecturer at the University of Cambridge, he's also a long-term consultant to UNESCO. He
led the Greater Manchester Challenge a three-year project that involved a partnership between national government, ten local authorities, 1,150 schools and many other stakeholders, and had a government investment of around £50 million. He went on to lead Schools Challenge Cymru, the Welsh Government’s multi-million pound flagship programme to accelerate the rate of improvement across the country’s schools. He is currently steering an inclusive cross schools project for the city of Dundee.
Mel has a new book out called 'Developing Inclusive Schools' and this dominates, in a pleasant way, the discussion. We dropped the usual 'what's caught your eye this week?' slot due to the genuine interest in Mel's contribution to the discussion. It is a wide ranging chat but offers hope for a better future if local, regional and national leaders are willing to grasp the nettle.
Sit back and enjoy what Mel has to say. It will probably change your view on SEND, behaviour, attendance, culture and collaboration.
Enjoy.
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42 min - Frank and Stan Chat No. 196The two gents are back for another academic year. The seven week break they have had has recharged the batteries and much has happened in education, especially in the past week. Fortuitously, they are joined by John Malynn, a long serving senior Civil Servant at the DfE and for four years at Ofsted. Frank and John would meet regularly to discuss developments such as new Frameworks when Frank was responsible for such matters as a senior HMI. The publication of the Big Listen including the report from Dame Christine Gilbert this week means that John has a rather unique perspective on such issues. Stan reflects on the announcement but lack of detail on how regional school improvement teams will work. John then considers the insight provided by Rory Stewart in his book 'Politics on the Edge' with Frank trying to get out of his Ofsted 'rabbit hole' by considering how realistic is the timetable for a new inspection framework with surrounding other issues to be delivered by September 2025. It is a fascinating insight into how the relationship between Ofsted and the DfE has changed over time and how important it is to get the next phase of development right.
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48 min
About Frank and Stan Chats
From the publisher's feed
Frank Norris and Stan Johnson have been friends since 1995. Both have had successful and lengthy careers in education. Frank was a very senior HMI with Ofsted for 11 years and was the CEO of the Coop…
Academies Trust for 6 years. Stan was seconded to Ofsted for a year and then returned to headship before working as a senior adviser with Lancashire LA. He has latterly led a successful education consultancy in the North West. Prior to Covid-19, the two gents would meet in Manchester for a pint or two but the pandemic put an end to that. On 1 May 2020, they recorded their first video chat as a way of recording their emotions and reactions to the pandemic. After putting the video on Youtube as a safe place to store it they realised that some followers began to appear. Now, with nearly 180 episodes and having chatted to Professors, CEOs, journalists, teachers, former HMI, education thinkers and Frank's Key Stage 1 leading daughter they have a loyal following and a rapidly increasing number of viewers. The reach of the Frank and Stan Chat stretches from Bogota to Ottawa to Greece and their first Live Edition was recorded in front of nearly 200 Headteachers in York. The Chats are not undertaken to attract followers or for financial reward (nothing is received and nothing will be received). It is a way of airing views on education matters between two professional friends with a focus on leadership. We are honoured to be invited to host the weekly chats on the Leader-connect website www.leader-connect.co.uk. The chats helped the gents get through the pandemic and they are delighted that they have been enjoyed by others and appear to have helped in developing leadership thought and actions. If you fancy being a guest then just reach out. We never post a video unless the guest is comfortable with it. So, it is a relatively risk-free environment. Thank you. Frank and Stan. PS. We were honoured to be identified as one of the Top 50 education and leadership podcasts in THE WORLD!!! We can't believe it, but it appears to be true.
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