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Gary and Leon are joined this week by Rachel Laser, president and CEO of Americans United for Separation of Church.
Americans United (AU) is the only organization dedicated solely to defending the separation of church and state. We are the shield protecting the foundational American principle of freedom of religion — including the right to believe or not believe — for all.
Rachel became president and CEO of AU in February 2018. She is the organization’s first non-Christian and female leader in its 78-year history. Rachel is a lawyer, advocate and strategist who has dedicated her career to making our country more inclusive. In her position at Americans United, Rachel oversees the organization’s work to protect freedom of conscience for all and ensure religion is not used to justify discrimination. In 2025, she was appointed to serve on the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom.
Rachel joins Freedom of Thought to explain what white Christian nationalism really is, how it differs from religious extremism (and why the terms are used interchangeably), and why AU fights it every day in the courts, in Congress, and in the public square.
She also addresses the anti-Christian bias task force's April 2026 report, Pete Hegseth's Pentagon prayer services, the billions flowing to discriminatory private schools through voucher programmes, and what the LGBTQ crackdown has to do with all of it. The episode closes with Rachel's sources of hope and the annual Summit for Religious Freedom — and an open invitation to listeners to join AU at au.org.
In this episode we cover
- What white Christian nationalism is and why it's the defining threat to church-state separation in America today
- School vouchers: billions in public money flowing to religious schools that can legally discriminate against LGBTQ students, women, and disabled children
- Maddonna v. HHS: the case of a Catholic mother turned away from a taxpayer-funded foster care agency for being the wrong type of Christian
- The anti-Christian bias task force, Pete Hegseth's Pentagon prayer services, and the LGBTQ crackdown
- What gives Rachel hope — and how to join Americans United at au.org
Further reading and references
- Americans United for Separation of Church and State: https://www.au.org/
- Rachel Laser — AU profile: https://www.au.org/about-au/people/rachel-laser/
- Case: Maddonna v. HHS: https://www.au.org/how-we-protect-religious-freedom/legal-cases/cases/maddonna-v-department-of-health-and-human-services/
- Case: Clergy challenging Missouri abortion ban (Rev. Blackmon v. Missouri): https://www.au.org/how-we-protect-religious-freedom/legal-cases/cases/rev-blackmon-v-missouri/
- PRRI Christian nationalism research: https://www.prri.org/research/a-christian-nation-understanding-the-threat-of-christian-nationalism-to-american-democracy-and-culture/
- USCIRF — Rachel Laser commissioner page: https://www.uscirf.gov/about-uscirf/commissioners/rachel-laser
- Summit for Religious Freedom: https://thesrf.org/
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🎶Music: Horizon by Simon Folwar
Podcast transcripts are AI-generated and may contain errors or omissions. They are provided to make our content more accessible, but should not be considered a fully accurate record of the conversation.
