In this episode, I'm joined by speaker coach Jenn Espinosa, whose route into speaking was anything but obvious. Before building her business, Jenn worked as a certified fraud examiner, using data, investigations and insight into human motivation to uncover where things were going wrong. Today, she helps speakers, coaches and consultants turn their message into something the market will actually pay for.

We talk about what it really takes to build a speaking business, especially if your topic doesn't naturally fit into the obvious corporate boxes. Jenn shares how she helps clients shape their message for the right market, why so many speakers stay stuck on low fees, how to handle fee conversations more confidently, and why trying to speak on everything usually makes you harder to book, not easier.

She also talks openly about how she gets work, why she believes speakers need to learn how to sell themselves, her thoughts on bureaus, the tools she uses in her business, and why she still believes in doing some things the old-school way. There's plenty in this conversation for speakers who want to become more commercial, more focused and more bookable.