From Hollow to Holy

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How do you know which voice to trust when they all sound reasonable?

After starting Serpents & Doves, Justin expected to keep creating.

Instead, he stopped.

The microphone stayed off. Weeks passed. And eventually the questions started piling up.

Maybe I need a break.

Maybe I’m just procrastinating.

Maybe God is telling me to slow down.

Or maybe I’m using that as an excuse because moving forward feels uncomfortable.

In this episode of From Hollow to Holy, Justin reflects on the difficulty of discernment when the choices in front of us aren’t obviously good or evil—and when the voices competing for our attention can all sound convincing.

Jesus told His disciples to be “wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.” That strange combination becomes the foundation for a much bigger question:

How do I become harder to deceive without becoming harder as a person?

This isn’t an episode about learning a formula for hearing God perfectly.

It’s about uncertainty.

About the difference between discernment and certainty.

About recognizing that fear, pride, experience, desire, wisdom, and faith can sometimes become tangled together.

And sometimes, instead of receiving the entire answer, we may simply receive enough light to take the next faithful step.

For Justin, this time that step was simple:

Turn the microphone back on.

This series isn’t about identifying who everyone else should trust or distrust. It’s an invitation to turn the questions inward:

Why do I believe this?

Why do I want this to be true?

Am I searching for truth—or simply looking for confirmation?

And perhaps one of the most important questions of all:

Can I be humble enough to say, “I don’t know”?

Welcome back to Serpents & Doves.

Not preaching.
Not claiming certainty.

Just honest reflection while trying to follow Jesus Christ through the questions.

References

• Matthew 10:16 — Jesus instructs His disciples to be “wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.”
• Genesis 12:1–4 — Abraham leaves his homeland after being called by God, beginning a journey without knowing everything that would follow.
• 1 Nephi 3–4 — Nephi returns to Jerusalem for the brass plates and moves forward before knowing exactly how the Lord will provide a way.
• Matthew 14:28–31 — Peter steps out of the boat toward Jesus Christ before knowing how the experience will unfold.

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How do I become harder to deceive without becoming harder as a person?

Over the last couple of years, I’ve spent a lot of time trying to improve my health. That journey led me through fitness trends, natural-health claims, quick fixes, social-media rabbit holes, and more than a few promises that sounded a lot better than they actually held up.

But somewhere along the way, something changed.

I stopped only questioning the claims—and started questioning myself.

Why wasn’t this working for me? Why wasn’t I seeing the results I had been promised? Was I doing something wrong?

Eventually, that frustration led me toward a much bigger question: How do I learn to recognize what is true without becoming suspicious of everything and everyone around me?

That question is the beginning of Serpents & Doves.

In Matthew 10:16, Jesus tells His disciples to be “wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.” I’ve been sitting with both sides of that invitation.

I want wisdom. I want to look closer. I don’t want to believe something just because somebody says it confidently.

But I also don’t want skepticism to turn me cynical, defensive, or constantly looking for someone to fight.

And apparently, I didn’t have to wait long to have that tested.

After releasing the trailer for this series, criticism showed up almost immediately. My first instinct was to respond, defend myself, and prove my point. A conversation with my wife made me stop and ask a different question:

What happens to me if I keep taking the bait?

That question eventually brought me back to the way Jesus used His words, His time, and His attention—and to another teaching of Christ:

“By their fruits ye shall know them.”

Maybe discernment isn’t only about identifying when somebody else is wrong.

Maybe it’s also asking:

What fruit is this producing in me?

The voices I listen to.
The content I consume.
The arguments I participate in.
The things I believe, repeat, and defend.

What are they turning me into?

I don’t have discernment figured out.

That’s why this isn’t a lesson.

It’s a reflection.

I’m trying to become wiser without becoming colder, more discerning without losing charity, and more committed to truth without turning truth into a weapon.

Wise as serpents. Harmless as doves.

Scripture References

• Matthew 10:16 — Wise as serpents and harmless as doves
• Matthew 7:16–20 — “By their fruits ye shall know them”
• John 13:35 — Christ’s disciples known by their love
• Luke 23:8–9 — Jesus before Herod
• John 18:33–38 — Jesus before Pilate

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When did disagreement start feeling like war?

Contention rarely begins with something enormous. Sometimes it starts with irritation. A disagreement at work. Someone cutting you off in traffic. A comment that hits wrong. A family member asking a question when you're already carrying more frustration than you know what to do with.

Then something shifts.

Anger starts looking for another offense. Retaliation promises that we'll feel better if we just hit back. Concern can sound like criticism. Kindness becomes suspicious. And before long, we may stop seeing the person in front of us and start seeing only what they've done wrong.

In the final episode of Shadows, Justin reflects honestly on his own struggle with anger and contention—including road rage, frustration at work, and a painful moment when his daughter simply asked, “Dad, why are you so angry?”

Through the words of Jesus Christ in 3 Nephi, James's warning about the tongue becoming a fire, the wisdom of Proverbs, and Mormon's description of charity, this episode explores a difficult question:

What happens when anger stops being something we feel and becomes something we allow to drive?

This isn't a story about conquering anger.

The struggle isn't neatly finished. The conversations haven't all been repaired. There isn't a perfect success story waiting at the end.

Instead, it's a reflection on learning to pause before the fuse burns, hearing another side before assuming we already understand it, and remembering that the Savior sees more in us than our worst moments.

Because contention says, Remember what they did.

Christ invites us to remember who they are.

And maybe one of the most important questions we can ask when anger begins to take over is:

Am I seeing this person… or am I only seeing the offense?

This is the final chapter of Shadows.

Twelve episodes. Twelve different lies, patterns, and distractions.

And through every one of them, the answer keeps leading back to the same place:

Jesus Christ.

References

• 3 Nephi 11:28–30 — Jesus Christ teaches concerning contention and being stirred to contend with anger.
• James 3:5–10 — James compares the tongue to a small fire capable of creating tremendous damage.
• Proverbs 18:13, 17 — The danger of responding before hearing and assuming we understand a matter before hearing another side.
• Moroni 7:45–48 — Charity, the pure love of Christ, is patient, not easily provoked, and seeks to see others through Christlike love.
• James 1:19–20 — “Swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath.”
• Russell M. Nelson, “Peacemakers Needed,” April 2023 General Conference — President Nelson taught that disciples of Jesus Christ are called to choose reconciliation and peacemaking over contention. 

Read “Peacemakers Needed” on ChurchofJesusChrist.org

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“I’ve still got time.”

It sounds harmless.

A week becomes a few days. A few days become tomorrow. Tomorrow becomes a few hours. And before long, something important has been pushed aside simply because we assumed there would always be more time.

In Episode 11 of Shadows, I’m reflecting on complacency—not as laziness or not caring, but as the quiet habit of postponing the things that matter most.

I see it at work when small tasks pile up. I see it in scripture study when something less important grabs my attention first. And I’ve seen it in some of the moments I regret most as a dad—times when my kids asked me to be present and I thought, “In a minute.”

Sometimes the adversary doesn’t have to convince us that something important doesn’t matter.

Maybe he only has to convince us:

“It can wait.”

Through 2 Nephi 28, Haggai, Luke 10, Doctrine and Covenants 64, and James 4, this episode explores what it means to become aware of the drift—and how sometimes coming back doesn’t require a dramatic overhaul.

Sometimes it starts with one small choice.

One prayer.

One conversation.

One moment of putting the phone down and simply saying:

“I’m here.”

Scriptures & References

2 Nephi 28:21 — “Pacify, and lull them away into carnal security” and the warning that “all is well.”
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/28?lang=eng

Haggai 1 — “Consider your ways,” and the danger of continually postponing what matters.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/ot/hag/1?lang=eng

Luke 10:38–42 — Mary and Martha; being “careful and troubled about many things” while overlooking the “one thing” that is needful.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/nt/luke/10?lang=eng

Doctrine and Covenants 64:33 — “Be not weary in well-doing” and “out of small things proceedeth that which is great.”
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/64?lang=eng

James 4:13–14 — “Ye know not what shall be on the morrow.”
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/nt/james/4?lang=eng

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We like to think that if we plan carefully enough, work hard enough, make the right choices, and do everything we’re supposed to do, life will eventually go according to plan.

But what happens when it doesn’t?

In this episode of From Hollow to Holy, we talk about control—the things we desperately try to hold onto, the expectations we place on ourselves and on God, and what happens when life reminds us just how little we actually control.

Faith doesn’t always mean knowing what comes next. Sometimes it means moving forward without the answers, trusting that God can see farther down the road than we can.

Maybe peace doesn’t come from finally getting everything under control.

Maybe it comes from learning who we can trust when it isn’t.

Scripture References:

• Proverbs 3:5–6
• Matthew 6:25–34
• Psalm 46:10
• James 4:13–15

From Hollow to Holy is a podcast about faith, hope, doubt, struggle, and the everyday experiences that can quietly lead us closer to Jesus Christ.

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Have you ever stopped listening to someone because you were already too busy figuring out why they were wrong?

I have.

In this episode of Shadows, I’m looking at a form of pride that doesn’t always look like arrogance. Sometimes it looks like defensiveness. Sometimes it looks like needing to be heard. Sometimes it’s the satisfaction of being proven right—or the frustration of being right and never getting credit for it.

A simple conversation with my teenage son about his résumé forced me to look at how quickly disagreement can feel like disrespect. And the more I reflected on it, the more I began recognizing the same pattern in my marriage, my parenting, my work, and even the way I respond when someone challenges something I’m certain about.

Through the Old Testament story of Naaman, we’ll explore what can happen when we leave enough room in our certainty to ask one uncomfortable question:

What if I’m wrong?

Humility doesn’t mean abandoning everything we know or assuming everyone else is right. Sometimes it simply means becoming willing to listen long enough to discover what we might not be seeing.

And maybe one of the hardest questions we can ask ourselves isn’t, “Why won’t they listen to me?”

Maybe it’s:

“Lord…is it I?”

Scriptures & References

2 Kings 5:1–14 — Naaman and Elisha
Naaman initially rejects Elisha’s instruction in anger, but after listening to the counsel of his servants, he washes seven times in the Jordan and is healed.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints — 2 Kings 5

Proverbs 12:15 — Receiving Counsel
“The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.”
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints — Proverbs 12

President Dieter F. Uchtdorf — “Lord, Is It I?”
October 2014 General Conference. President Uchtdorf teaches about looking inward, setting aside pride, and humbly asking whether we ourselves need to change.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints — “Lord, Is It I?”

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Have you ever believed something about yourself for so long that you stopped questioning whether it was true?

Maybe the sentence sounds like:

I’m not smart enough.
I’ll never change.
I’m just a failure.
This is simply who I am.

In this episode of Shadows, I share how repeated struggles with college slowly became something more than disappointment. Failure became evidence, and eventually I accepted the identity of someone who simply wasn’t capable of moving forward.

For years, I worked, supported my family, and lived an ordinary life—but beneath it all, I had stopped asking what I might still become. That false identity eventually spread beyond education and contributed to a difficult season of depression, anxiety, and suicidal thoughts.

Through therapy, renewed effort, scripture, and the tender mercies of God, I began learning an important truth:

Using the story of Gideon and Mormon’s teachings in Moroni 7, we explore the difference between spiritual correction that invites us toward Christ and shame that tells us there is no reason to keep trying.

This episode is for anyone who has ever allowed a failure, weakness, label, or difficult season to become a verdict about who they are.

Your story is not finished.

Content note: This episode includes a personal discussion of depression and past suicidal thoughts.

Scriptures and references

Judges 6:11–16 — Gideon sees himself as insignificant and unqualified, while the Lord calls him a “mighty man of valour” and promises to be with him. 

Moroni 7:16–17 — Mormon teaches that the Spirit of Christ helps us discern good from evil and that influences which invite us to do good and believe in Christ come from God. 

Additional study note: The “Spirit of Christ” referenced in Moroni 7 is also called the Light of Christ and is distinct from the gift of the Holy Ghost. 

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Have you ever worked hard at something good and quietly wondered, "Is any of this actually making a difference?"

Discouragement rarely tells us to quit overnight. Instead, it whispers that our efforts don't matter, that progress should be happening faster, or that we're wasting our time.

In this episode of From Hollow to Holy, Justin shares a personal struggle he is still walking through—not a story with a perfect ending, but one that explores what it means to keep moving forward when the outcome is still uncertain.

Through Galatians 6:9, we'll discover that weariness isn't always a sign we're on the wrong path. Sometimes it's simply part of faithfully walking the right one.

Because faith isn't believing the harvest is already here. Faith is planting another seed while the field still looks empty.

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In Episode 6 of Shadows, Justin reflects on one of the quietest tactics we often fail to recognize: isolation.

Not the kind of isolation where we disappear from everyone around us—but the kind where we continue showing up, smiling, working, providing, and saying, "I'm fine," while quietly carrying burdens no one else can see.

Through personal experiences, honest reflection, and Christ's invitation in Matthew 11, this episode explores how isolation often begins with good intentions, but can slowly become a place where our burdens grow heavier than they were ever meant to be.

Maybe strength isn't carrying everything alone.

Maybe strength is trusting God—and the right people—with the weight you've been hiding.

Scripture referenced:

• Matthew 11:28–30

Reflection Question:

When did carrying it alone start feeling like strength?

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In Episode 5 of Shadows, Justin reflects on the labels we carry — especially the ones that stop sounding like accusations and start sounding like our own voice.

This episode explores the tactic of false identity: how Satan can use labels, assumptions, comparison, public perception, shame, and insecurity to reduce us to something smaller than what God has already called us.

Through personal reflections on working as a pharmacy technician, wrestling with the label “not legitimate,” living with an invisible health struggle, and learning to recognize God’s voice, this episode asks a simple but powerful question:

Who told you that?

And maybe the deeper question:

Does God call you that?

Scripture referenced:

• Moses 1