Adrian Goldberg hears from former US congressman Joe Walsh, once a member of the low tax, socially conservative Tea Party faction of the Republican party, who supported Donald Trump's presidential campaign in 2016. Joe has since been on a remarkable political journey that led him to challenging Trump for the 2020 presidential nomination.

He now calls himself 'woke' and is on a mission to heal the divides caused by populism through his White Flag podcast. He warns that the US needs "marriage therapy" to avoid a violent divorce.

Produced in Birmingham by Adrian Goldberg.

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