FrontStage BackStage with Jason Daye - Healthy Leadership for Life and Ministry

Before you feed others, are you being fed by Christ? Hannah Miller King shares how communion reframes grief, hunger, and the tension ministry leaders carry.

Ministry leaders spend their lives feeding others.

Preaching. Counseling. Leading. Serving.

But who is feeding you?

In this thoughtful and theologically rich conversation, host Jason Daye sits down with Anglican priest and author Hannah Miller King to explore what it means to receive from Christ before attempting to serve others.

Drawing from her book Feasting on Hope, Hannah reflects on how the Lord’s Table has shaped her through profound loss, unanswered questions, and the ongoing tensions of ministry. Together, they discuss how communion reframes hunger, how some longings remain unsatisfied in this life, and why that is not a flaw in the Christian story.

• The difference between functioning in ministry and being truly formed
• Why ministry must flow from overflow, not exhaustion
• The temptation to feed on ministry success instead of being fed by Christ
• How communion reminds leaders they are hungry children before they are shepherds
• Why some hungers remain unsatisfied — and why that’s part of the Christian story
• Sitting with unanswered questions without rushing to a silver lining
• Receiving from God for your own soul, not just for your next sermon

This episode is not about tidy resolutions. It is about faithfulness in the tension.
This conversation is helpful and encouraging for every pastor or ministry leader who desires to  bring their hunger to Jesus, not to their sheep.

receiving before serving

ministry burnout

spiritual health for pastors

communion and ministry

how pastors avoid burnout

being fed by Christ

ministry leaders spiritual formation

pastor spiritual renewal

Christian leadership and identity

Feasting on Hope Hannah Miller King

Looking to dig more deeply into this topic and conversation? FrontStage BackStage is much more than another church leadership show, it is a complete resource to help you and your ministry leaders grow. Every week we go the extra mile and create a free toolkit so you and your ministry team can dive deeper into the topic that is discussed.

Visit http://PastorServe.org/network to find the Weekly Toolkit, including the Ministry Leaders Growth Guide. Our team pulls key insights and quotes from every conversation with our guests. We also create engaging questions for you and your team to consider and process, providing space for you to reflect on how each episode's topic relates to your unique church context. Use these questions in your staff meetings, or other settings, to guide your conversation as you invest in the growth of your ministry leaders.

Love well, live well, & lead well

Complimentary Coaching Session for Pastors http://PastorServe.org/freesession

Follow PastorServe LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram | Facebook

Connect with Jason Daye LinkedIn | Instagram

In a divided and contentious world, pastors and ministry leaders are called to lead as peacemakers. Mark DeYmaz joins Jason Daye to explore how Jesus-shaped faithfulness builds trust and witness over time.

What does it look like for pastors and ministry leaders to lead as peacemakers in a divided world while remaining faithful to who God has called them to be?

In this episode of FrontStage BackStage, host Jason Daye sits down with Mark DeYmaz, pastor, author, and longtime leader in the multiethnic church movement. Drawing from his latest book, Make Me an Instrument of Your Peace, Mark reflects on how ministry leaders can lean into peacemaking with clarity, courage, and compassion in contentious times.

Mark challenges pastors to resist the temptation to become politicians or pundits and instead remain faithful shepherds who care deeply for their people and communities. He shares why chasing likes, views, or applause can undermine trust, and why consistent and faithful obedience over time ultimately strengthens a ministry leader’s witness. Together, they explore how the Church’s credibility today is shaped less by what people say and more by what others see through faithful presence and loving action.

They discuss:

• What it means to lead as a peacemaker rather than a cultural combatant
• Why faithfulness over time builds trust in polarized contexts
• The danger of chasing visibility instead of pastoral integrity
• How Matthew 5:16 shapes Christian witness in the 21st century
• Practical and often overlooked ways pastors can lead in peacemaking

This conversation invites pastors and ministry leaders to embrace a Jesus-shaped vision of leadership marked by humility, trustworthiness, and quiet faithfulness, offering hope for how the Church can reflect the beauty and love of Christ in a divided world.

leading as peacemakers, peacemaking in ministry, pastoral leadership, Christian leadership in divided times, faithful ministry leadership, trust in leadership, Matthew 5:16, FrontStage BackStage, Mark DeYmaz, peacemaking and faithfulness, St. Francis, Peace Prayer

Looking to dig more deeply into this topic and conversation? FrontStage BackStage is much more than another church leadership show, it is a complete resource to help you and your ministry leaders grow. Every week we go the extra mile and create a free toolkit so you and your ministry team can dive deeper into the topic that is discussed.

Visit http://PastorServe.org/network to find the Weekly Toolkit, including the Ministry Leaders Growth Guide. Our team pulls key insights and quotes from every conversation with our guests. We also create engaging questions for you and your team to consider and process, providing space for you to reflect on how each episode's topic relates to your unique church context. Use these questions in your staff meetings, or other settings, to guide your conversation as you invest in the growth of your ministry leaders.

Love well, live well, & lead well

Complimentary Coaching Session for Pastors http://PastorServe.org/freesession

Follow PastorServe LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram | Facebook

Connect with Jason Daye LinkedIn | Instagram

Change is inevitable in ministry. How leaders navigate it shapes both mission and people. Aaron Abramson shares wisdom on leading organizational and cultural change with clarity, faithfulness, and care.

Drawing from his experience helping guide a global ministry through transition, Aaron reflects on how design thinking can serve mission rather than replace it. He shares how intentional design, clarity of purpose, and faith-centered leadership can help ministries adapt wisely in changing contexts without drifting from what matters most.

They discuss:

• Why change is a normal and necessary part of ministry life
• How design thinking can support faithful mission and strategy
• Leading organizational and cultural change with wisdom and intentionality
• The importance of clarity, communication, and care during transition
• Encouragement for leaders navigating uncertainty and complexity

This conversation offers steady guidance for pastors and ministry leaders who are navigating change and seeking to do so in ways that honor God, serve people well, and strengthen the long-term health of their ministries.

how to lead ministry through change, ministry leadership, organizational change in ministry, church leadership, mission design, design thinking in ministry, adaptive leadership, ministry transition, leading change faithfully, FrontStage BackStage

Looking to dig more deeply into this topic and conversation? FrontStage BackStage is much more than another church leadership show, it is a complete resource to help you and your ministry leaders grow. Every week we go the extra mile and create a free toolkit so you and your ministry team can dive deeper into the topic that is discussed.

Visit http://PastorServe.org/network to find the Weekly Toolkit, including the Ministry Leaders Growth Guide. Our team pulls key insights and quotes from every conversation with our guests. We also create engaging questions for you and your team to consider and process, providing space for you to reflect on how each episode's topic relates to your unique church context. Use these questions in your staff meetings, or other settings, to guide your conversation as you invest in the growth of your ministry leaders.

Love well, live well, & lead well

Complimentary Coaching Session for Pastors http://PastorServe.org/freesession

Follow PastorServe LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram | Facebook

Connect with Jason Daye LinkedIn | Instagram

Ministry can feel heavy even when you love Jesus deeply. In this episode of FrontStage BackStage, Bob Goff joins Jason Daye for an honest, encouraging conversation about staying close to Jesus when the work of ministry becomes weighty.

Ministry can be meaningful and heavy at the same time.

In this episode of FrontStage BackStage, Jason Daye sits down with Bob Goff for a deeply honest, pastoral conversation about what it means to walk with Jesus when ministry feels heavy.

Rather than focusing on performance, platforms, or productivity, Bob invites pastors and ministry leaders to return to closeness with Jesus, formation over information, and practices that keep faith grounded in real life.

Together, they explore:

• Why ministry often crowds out intimacy with Jesus
• How insecurity and pressure quietly shape leaders
• The difference between agreeing with Jesus and actually following Him
• Why formation matters more than more content
• How small, faithful practices can reshape the way we live and lead
• What encouragement pastors need when they feel tired, discouraged, or uncertain

Bob Goff is a New York Times bestselling author, speaker, and longtime advocate for living out a practical, love fueled faith. He is the author of several books, including his latest release, A Journey with Jesus, an interactive guide that invites readers to experience the life and teachings of Jesus through Scripture, story, and filmed experiences from the Holy Land.

This conversation is especially for pastors and ministry leaders who:

• Love Jesus deeply but feel stretched thin
• Are navigating pressure, expectations, and constant noise
• Long to stay spiritually grounded without burning out
• Want to lead from authenticity rather than obligation

FrontStage BackStage exists to care for the whole life of ministry leaders, both the public FrontStage and the personal BackStage, because healthy ministry flows from a healthy, well tended soul.

If ministry feels heavy right now, this conversation is for you.

Looking to dig more deeply into this topic and conversation? FrontStage BackStage is much more than another church leadership show, it is a complete resource to help you and your ministry leaders grow. Every week we go the extra mile and create a free toolkit so you and your ministry team can dive deeper into the topic that is discussed.

Visit http://PastorServe.org/network to find the Weekly Toolkit, including the Ministry Leaders Growth Guide. Our team pulls key insights and quotes from every conversation with our guests. We also create engaging questions for you and your team to consider and process, providing space for you to reflect on how each episode's topic relates to your unique church context. Use these questions in your staff meetings, or other settings, to guide your conversation as you invest in the growth of your ministry leaders.

Love well, live well, & lead well

Complimentary Coaching Session for Pastors http://PastorServe.org/freesession

Follow PastorServe LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram | Facebook

Connect with Jason Daye LinkedIn | Instagram

Many pastors faithfully proclaim the gospel—yet quietly wrestle with a growing gap between what they believe about God and what they actually experience with God. In this honest and searching highlight from our longer conversation, Steve Cuss joins host Jason Daye to name a tension many ministry leaders feel but rarely articulate: the disconnect between preaching faith and living it from the inside out.

Steve reflects on a season where he began to wonder whether being a pastor itself had complicated his ability to experience God. He explores two powerful dynamics that often shape pastoral life—confusing our identity as God’s beloved children with our role as God’s employees, and neglecting our own inner lives in the name of mission, vision, and service to others. What can look like selfless devotion, Steve suggests, can sometimes mask anxiety, avoidance, and emotional disconnection.

Together, Steve and Jason unpack how pastors can become highly “others-focused” while remaining unaware of what’s happening within themselves. Steve vulnerably shares how a moment of “blind spot awareness” revealed this gap in his own life—realizing that while his head affirmed core truths of the faith, his body and daily experience did not. Rather than hiding this struggle, he chose to steward it openly, inviting his congregation into a shared conversation about doubt, freedom, and what it means to actually live the promises of the gospel.

This conversation is a must-watch for:

• Pastors and ministry leaders experiencing spiritual or emotional disconnect
  Leaders carrying anxiety, performance pressure, or inner exhaustion
• Those questioning why faith feels true but not transformative
• Churches longing for honest, embodied discipleship

Key Topics Discussed:

• The hidden disconnect between belief and experience in ministry
• Neglecting the self in the name of serving others
• Blind spots, self-awareness, and spiritual awakening
• Why many believers proclaim truths they don’t yet live

👉 Watch the full episode for deeper insight into how pastors and ministry leaders can move from merely preaching the gospel to actually experiencing the peace, freedom, and love it promises: https://youtu.be/EKHZrI39J5w?si=UOk25Z1jl5UWSVia&t=199

Looking to dig more deeply into this topic and conversation? FrontStage BackStage is much more than another church leadership show, it is a complete resource to help you and your ministry leaders grow. Every week we go the extra mile and create a free toolkit so you and your ministry team can dive deeper into the topic that is discussed.

Visit http://PastorServe.org/network to find the Weekly Toolkit, including the Ministry Leaders Growth Guide. Our team pulls key insights and quotes from every conversation with our guests. We also create engaging questions for you and your team to consider and process, providing space for you to reflect on how each episode's topic relates to your unique church context. Use these questions in your staff meetings, or other settings, to guide your conversation as you invest in the growth of your ministry leaders.

Love well, live well, & lead well

Complimentary Coaching Session for Pastors http://PastorServe.org/freesession

Follow PastorServe LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram | Facebook

Connect with Jason Daye LinkedIn | Instagram

Pastors and ministry leaders often carry more than they realize. As they walk alongside people facing addiction, grief, trauma, and loss, the weight of those stories can quietly accumulate—leading to exhaustion, blurred boundaries, and burnout. In this compelling highlight from our longer conversation, guest Bethany Dearborn Hiser joins host Jason Daye to explore the often-overlooked reality of secondary trauma in ministry and the healing that begins when leaders finally acknowledge its impact.

Bethany shares from her own journey of recovery, naming how codependency, workaholism, and misplaced responsibility for others’ wellbeing can entangle a leader’s identity and health. Drawing on insights from recovery communities and her book From Burned Out to Beloved, she explains why the first step toward healing is a courageous admission: we’re not okay—and we can’t do this alone.

Together, Bethany and Jason unpack how ministry leaders can engage people with empathy without becoming consumed by their pain. They discuss the importance of healthy separation, examining inner motivations, and building intentional networks of support through spiritual direction, therapy, and trusted community.

The conversation also addresses the deep identity struggle many pastors face—when worth and value become tied to productivity, success, or helping others. Bethany offers a different vision: rooting identity in being beloved, not useful. Through spiritual practices like welcoming prayer, slowing down, and cultivating rhythms of rest, leaders can reconnect with God’s love and serve from a grounded, healthy place rather than guilt, shame, or the need to be needed.

This conversation is a must-watch for:

• Pastors and ministry leaders carrying the emotional weight of others’ trauma
• Leaders experiencing burnout, compassion fatigue, or blurred boundaries
• Those serving in recovery, care, or crisis-centered ministries
• Anyone seeking healthier, Christ-centered rhythms of leadership and rest

Key Topics Discussed:

• What secondary trauma looks like in pastoral ministry
• Recovery as a framework for healing ministry leaders
• Workaholism and unhealthy motivations in service
• Why identity rooted in “what we do” leads to burnout
• Being grounded as God’s beloved, not defined by outcomes
• Spiritual practices that foster healing, rest, and resilience

Looking to dig more deeply into this topic and conversation? FrontStage BackStage is much more than another church leadership show, it is a complete resource to help you and your ministry leaders grow. Every week we go the extra mile and create a free toolkit so you and your ministry team can dive deeper into the topic that is discussed.

Visit http://PastorServe.org/network to find the Weekly Toolkit, including the Ministry Leaders Growth Guide. Our team pulls key insights and quotes from every conversation with our guests. We also create engaging questions for you and your team to consider and process, providing space for you to reflect on how each episode's topic relates to your unique church context. Use these questions in your staff meetings, or other settings, to guide your conversation as you invest in the growth of your ministry leaders.

Love well, live well, & lead well

Complimentary Coaching Session for Pastors http://PastorServe.org/freesession

Follow PastorServe LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram | Facebook

Connect with Jason Daye LinkedIn | Instagram

Emerging generations are asking hard questions of the church—and many aren’t finding the answers they’re looking for. In this compelling highlight from our longer conversation, guest Efrem Smith joins host Jason Daye to explore what younger generations often find missing in the American church and why those gaps matter for the future of faith communities.

Efrem unpacks how a lack of visible diversity, limited use of modern communication tools, and minimal social or civic engagement can create distance between churches and the multicultural, justice-oriented world younger generations navigate every day. He explains why churches that fail to reflect the diversity of God’s kingdom—or to embody the good news of Jesus in both word and action— often struggle to connect with emerging generations.

Together, Efrem and Jason address the deep skepticism many young adults carry, shaped by constant exposure to broken systems, public failures, and nonstop media. Rather than responding defensively, this conversation invites church leaders into a hopeful, self-reflective posture rooted in the incarnational way of Jesus—one that practices humility, proximity, and embodied love in the neighborhood.

Drawing from the Gospels and the story of Jesus and the Samaritan woman at the well, Efrem highlights the need for “embodied apologetics”—not just declaring truth, but demonstrating it through compassion, justice, and authentic engagement with the vulnerable.

This conversation is a must-watch for:
Pastors and church leaders seeking to reach emerging generations
Ministry leaders navigating cultural change and generational disconnect
Churches wrestling with diversity, justice, and community impact
Christians longing for a faith that is both proclaimed and practiced

Key Topics Discussed:
What younger generations feel is missing in many churches
Diversity, technology, and relevance in a multicultural world
Why skepticism toward the church is growing
Incarnational ministry and Jesus’ posture toward culture
Embodied apologetics: practicing the gospel, not just preaching it
Engaging neighborhoods through humility, justice, and love

👉 Watch the full episode for deeper insight into how the church can faithfully reflect Jesus in today’s rapidly changing world.

Looking to dig more deeply into this topic and conversation? FrontStage BackStage is much more than another church leadership show, it is a complete resource to help you and your ministry leaders grow. Every week we go the extra mile and create a free toolkit so you and your ministry team can dive deeper into the topic that is discussed.

Visit http://PastorServe.org/network to find the Weekly Toolkit, including the Ministry Leaders Growth Guide. Our team pulls key insights and quotes from every conversation with our guests. We also create engaging questions for you and your team to consider and process, providing space for you to reflect on how each episode's topic relates to your unique church context. Use these questions in your staff meetings, or other settings, to guide your conversation as you invest in the growth of your ministry leaders.

Love well, live well, & lead well

Complimentary Coaching Session for Pastors http://PastorServe.org/freesession

Follow PastorServe LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram | Facebook

Connect with Jason Daye LinkedIn | Instagram

Isolation is one of the greatest dangers facing pastors today—especially in an age of celebrity church culture. In this powerful highlight from our longer conversation (which can be found here: https://youtu.be/_xbTZPOMaM4?si=OmYzWzA7EnEcQfRJ) , Diane Langberg unpacks why pastoral isolation quietly increases vulnerability, how “celebrity pastor” models distance leaders from their congregations, and why Jesus’ example offers a healthier, safer way to lead.

Joined by host Jason Daye, Diane explains how isolation often creeps in with good intentions—and why unchecked isolation can become spiritually and emotionally dangerous. She also contrasts harmful isolation with healthy solitude, emphasizing the importance of safe community, accountability, and intentional rest for a pastor’s soul.

This conversation is a must-watch for:

-Pastors and church leaders

-Ministry leaders navigating burnout or pressure

-Anyone concerned about church leadership health

-Christians wrestling with celebrity culture in the church

Key Topics Discussed:

-The danger of celebrity pastors and distance from “the sheep”

-Why isolation makes leaders more vulnerable

-Healthy vs. unhealthy isolation in ministry

-Jesus’ model of close relationships and intentional solitude

-Accountability, safe community, and soul care for pastors

👉 Watch the full episode for deeper insight into leadership, faith, and emotional health in ministry.

Looking to dig more deeply into this topic and conversation? FrontStage BackStage is much more than another church leadership show, it is a complete resource to help you and your ministry leaders grow. Every week we go the extra mile and create a free toolkit so you and your ministry team can dive deeper into the topic that is discussed.

Visit http://PastorServe.org/network to find the Weekly Toolkit, including the Ministry Leaders Growth Guide. Our team pulls key insights and quotes from every conversation with our guests. We also create engaging questions for you and your team to consider and process, providing space for you to reflect on how each episode's topic relates to your unique church context. Use these questions in your staff meetings, or other settings, to guide your conversation as you invest in the growth of your ministry leaders.

Love well, live well, & lead well

Complimentary Coaching Session for Pastors http://PastorServe.org/freesession

Follow PastorServe LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram | Facebook

Connect with Jason Daye LinkedIn | Instagram

In this highlight from our longer conversation with Andy Crouch (which can be found here: Flourishing in Ministry: Taking Action & Taking Risks - Andy Crouch - 125 - FrontStage BackStage , we explore what happens when suffering feels unmanageable and why so many leaders respond by pulling back, disengaging, or shutting down.

Andy introduces his framework of authority and vulnerability, explaining the four “quadrants” of human experience: flourishing, suffering, withdrawal (safety), and control. He shows how leaders often move from suffering into withdrawal when pain is not brought honestly before God through lament.

Drawing from the Psalms—especially Psalm 88, Andy explains why Scripture gives leaders permission to bring their complaints to God, even when hope feels distant. He also highlights the critical role of priestly presence—the kind of support leaders need when they lack the capacity to act but still need someone to walk with them.

This conversation is especially relevant for pastors, ministry leaders, and anyone navigating burnout, trauma, or prolonged seasons of suffering.

In this highlight, you’ll discover:

-Why leaders withdraw when pain feels unmanageable

-The difference between suffering and withdrawal

-How neglecting lament leads to disengagement and burnout

-Why Psalm 88 matters for leaders in dark seasons

-The role of priests, prophets, and kings in healing leadership wounds

-How leaders can begin moving back toward flourishing

Looking to dig more deeply into this topic and conversation? FrontStage BackStage is much more than another church leadership show, it is a complete resource to help you and your ministry leaders grow. Every week we go the extra mile and create a free toolkit so you and your ministry team can dive deeper into the topic that is discussed.

Visit http://PastorServe.org/network to find the Weekly Toolkit, including the Ministry Leaders Growth Guide. Our team pulls key insights and quotes from every conversation with our guests. We also create engaging questions for you and your team to consider and process, providing space for you to reflect on how each episode's topic relates to your unique church context. Use these questions in your staff meetings, or other settings, to guide your conversation as you invest in the growth of your ministry leaders.

Love well, live well, & lead well

Complimentary Coaching Session for Pastors http://PastorServe.org/freesession

Follow PastorServe LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram | Facebook

Connect with Jason Daye LinkedIn | Instagram

Top of 2025 // One of Our Most Engaged Episodes of 2025

How can the Church live out the hope of heaven on earth? N.T. Wright joins Jason Daye to explore the powerful, unifying vision of Ephesians and what it means for ministry and life today.

How can the Church embody biblical unity in a divided world and reflect heaven on earth by participating in God’s redemptive plan?

In this episode of FrontStage BackStage, host Jason Daye welcomes Dr. N. T. Wright, one of the world’s foremost New Testament scholars and author of The Vision of Ephesians. Together they explore how Paul’s letter calls believers to a renewed imagination of heaven and earth united in Christ, and how that vision shapes both our present mission and future hope.

Dr. Wright shares practical ways he seeks personal refreshment, offers insights on the temptation to treat heaven as escapism, and reflects on how the Church can embody God’s reconciling work in divisive times.

They discuss:

• Why Ephesians offers a “visionary letter” for the Church today
• How heaven and earth unite in God’s redemptive plan
• The difference between escapism and participation in God’s renewal
• What true biblical unity looks like in a divided world
• How Scripture shapes leaders who live out the gospel in daily ministry

This conversation invites pastors, ministry leaders, and believers alike to see Ephesians not as distant theology but as a living invitation to join God’s ongoing work of renewal, reflect His unity, and live faithfully in anticipation of heaven and earth made one in Christ.

Dig deeper into this conversation: Find the free Weekly Toolkit, including the Ministry Leaders Growth Guide, all resource links, and more at http://PastorServe.org/network

Some key takeaways from this conversation:

N.T. Wright on the importance of understanding God’s grand story: "God's plan from the start was to sum up in the Messiah everything in heaven and on earth."

N.T. Wright on the significance of understanding the Church as God’s multicultural family: "The Church, from the beginning, was the original multicultural project."

N.T. Wright on the importance of developing authentic, contextually grounded expressions of faith: "We need to develop styles of ministry, styles of worship, styles of prayer, lament, and praise, which enable us to take the whole armor of God."
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Looking to dig more deeply into this topic and conversation? FrontStage BackStage is much more than another church leadership show, it is a complete resource to help you and your ministry leaders grow. Every week we go the extra mile and create a free toolkit so you and your ministry team can dive deeper into the topic that is discussed.

Visit http://PastorServe.org/network to find the Weekly Toolkit, including the Ministry Leaders Growth Guide. Our team pulls key insights and quotes from every conversation with our guests. We also create engaging questions for you and your team to consider and process, providing space for you to reflect on how each episode's topic relates to your unique church context. Use these questions in your staff meetings, or other settings, to guide your conversation as you invest in the growth of your ministry leaders.

Love well, live well, & lead well

Complimentary Coaching Session for Pastors http://PastorServe.org/freesession

Follow PastorServe LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram | Facebook

Connect with Jason Daye LinkedIn | Instagram