Summary

In this conversation with Patrick Kizny, Joanna Garner shares her journey with Meow Wolf, a creative company that has grown rapidly while navigating the challenges of maintaining creativity within a corporate structure. We discuss the tension between artistic freedom and business demands, the importance of creating supportive environments for artists, and the ethical dilemmas surrounding the valuation of creativity in a capitalist society. The conversation also touches on the role of art in society, the impact of technology on creativity, and the need for genuine human connection in an increasingly digital world.

Takeaways

Joanna Garner reflects on her six-year journey with Meow Wolf, a company that started as a punk art collective.

Creative businesses often struggle to balance artistic freedom with corporate demands.

The growth of a creative company can lead to a loss of its original spirit.

Creativity is often commodified and undervalued in capitalist systems.

Navigating change in large organizations can be particularly challenging for creative individuals.

The tension between chaos and order is essential for creative ventures to thrive.

Ethical dilemmas arise when valuing creativity compared to traditional business roles.

Art plays a crucial role in society, especially in times of political and social upheaval.

The future of creativity may lie in smaller, more intimate gatherings rather than large social media followings.

Sound Bites

"There is no more organic social media."

"We are screaming into the void."

"Creativity is a birthright."

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Joanna Garner and Meow Wolf

04:36 The Growth and Challenges of Meow Wolf

08:05 Creative Businesses and the Capitalist Dilemma

11:00 The Tension Between Creativity and Corporate Structure

18:43 Valuing Creativity in Corporate Environments

25:20 The Origins and Evolution of Meow Wolf

32:30 The Ethical Implications of Corporate Profit vs. Human Value

34:33 Historical Lessons and Their Relevance Today

36:33 The Role of Artists in Society

38:57 Creating from Rage and Aliveness

41:21 Art's Role in the Age of Technology

44:04 The Impact of Social Media on Art

47:45 Reclaiming Community and Connection

51:34 The Future of Creativity and Human Connection

Keywords

Meow Wolf, creativity, corporate structure, capitalism, change management, creative process, social media, censorship, ethics of creative business, late-stage capitalism

In this conversation, Patrick Kizny and Marc Morissette explore Marc's extensive journey in the VFX industry, discussing his early experiences, the transition to entrepreneurship with his studio Cluster, and the challenges faced in managing a creative team.

They explore themes of perfectionism, the impact of external factors like the pandemic and AI, and the emotional toll of closing a business. The discussion highlights the differences in how failure is perceived in the tech versus creative industries, emphasizing the need for a supportive environment for creative professionals.

In this conversation, Patrick Kizny and Marc Morissette delve into the complexities of entrepreneurship within the creative industry, discussing personal experiences with business challenges, market changes, and the impact of AI.

They reflect on the emotional toll of business failures, the importance of community, and the lessons learned from navigating crises. The dialogue emphasizes the need for resilience and adaptability in a rapidly evolving landscape, while also acknowledging the human element that drives creativity.

Takeaways

Starting a business requires wearing many hats and learning on the go.

Marc aimed to create a supportive environment for his team at Cluster.

Perfectionism can hinder the overall progress of a project.

The pandemic significantly impacted the VFX industry and small studios.

External factors like AI and economic shifts can threaten small businesses.

Marc had to make tough decisions regarding his team during challenging times.

The emotional strain of running a studio can be overwhelming.

Failure in the creative industry is often stigmatized compared to the tech industry. Building a business is akin to raising a child; it's personal.

Experiencing business failure is common and not a personal indictment.

Burnout is a real issue for entrepreneurs, often overlooked.

The market ultimately dictates success, regardless of effort.

Learning from failures can lead to personal and professional growth.

The creative industry is undergoing a hidden crisis that needs acknowledgment.

Taking time for self-care is essential for long-term success.

Sound Bites

"I love to take people under my wing."

"You need room for the people to grow."

"It's the director's show."

"People look at us like, oh, you failed."

"The entire industry just dissolved."

"A company is a party boat."

"It's a very personal adventure."

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to VFX Journey

02:55 The Transition to Entrepreneurship

05:53 Building a Creative Team

09:06 Perfectionism in VFX

11:56 The Challenges of Running a Studio

15:02 The Impact of External Factors

17:59 Navigating Closure and Personal Struggles

20:53 Reflections on Failure in the Creative Industry

30:42 Navigating Business Challenges and Personal Growth

34:15 The Impact of Market Changes on Creative Industries

39:00 Crisis in the Creative Industry: A Hidden Reality

41:24 The Role of AI in the Future of Creativity

45:49 Reflections on Burnout and Personal Resilience

51:28 Lessons Learned from Business Failures

56:18 The Importance of Community in Creative Work

In this conversation, Patrick Kizny and Chris DuBois discuss the evolving landscape of the agency space, focusing on the challenges posed by market saturation, technological advancements, and the need for agencies to adapt their strategies.

They emphasize the importance of problem-focused messaging, the role of AI in enhancing efficiency, and the necessity of defining success and value in business. The discussion also touches on the significance of building trust and differentiation in a crowded market, as well as the future of agency business models in light of these changes.

Takeaways

The agency market is experiencing significant saturation.

Agencies must adapt to technological advancements, especially AI.

A shift from service-based to consulting-based models is necessary.

Problem-focused messaging is crucial for attracting clients.

Defining success and value is essential for agency owners.

AI should be used to enhance human creativity, not replace it.

Building trust through specialization can differentiate agencies.

Agencies need to understand their unique value proposition.

Market dynamics are changing rapidly, requiring agility.

Comparing oneself to different markets can lead to misaligned strategies.

Chapters

00:00Navigating Industry Changes

02:45Service Saturation and Market Dynamics

05:45The Shift from Services to Consulting

08:22Ecosystem Partnerships and Lead Generation

11:13The Collapse of Inbound and Outbound Marketing

14:03Understanding the Problem-First Approach

16:35Building Trust in a Saturated Market

25:14Understanding Value Perception

26:43Transitioning Business Models

28:39Identifying Market Needs

30:55Leveraging AI for Efficiency

35:21Defining Success in Business

39:30Navigating Market Realities

Summary

In this conversation, Patrick Kizny and Érada Svetlana discuss the transition from corporate roles to creative positions, the implications of Web3 for businesses, and the challenges faced by creative studios in a changing landscape. Érada shares insights on the importance of business operations in creative firms, the role of advisory positions in supporting startups, and the need for education in adapting to new technologies. They also explore the significance of value chain mapping, differentiation in a saturated market, and emerging business ideas in the context of Web3 and personal data security.

Takeaways

The shift from corporate to creative roles often stems from a desire for greater impact.

Web3 presents both opportunities and challenges for businesses.

Creative studios must understand business operations to thrive.

Advisory roles can help startups establish a solid foundation.

Surviving the creative industry crisis requires adaptability and innovation.

Education is crucial for keeping up with technological advancements.

Value chain mapping helps companies understand their position in the market.

Differentiation is key in a saturated creative services market.

Emerging business ideas in Web3 and cybersecurity are promising.

Personal data security will become increasingly important in the digital age.

Chapters

00:00 Navigating Career Transitions: From Corporate to Startups

02:12 Understanding Web3: Opportunities and Challenges

04:51 The Role of Business Operations in Creative Studios

07:42 Advisory Roles: Bridging Gaps in Small Companies

10:17 The Importance of Education in Adapting to Industry Changes

12:41 Value Chain Mapping: Understanding Your Place in the Ecosystem

15:20 The Art of Selling: Connecting with Clients on a Deeper Level

17:51 Differentiation in the Creative and Digital Industries

24:59 The Maturation of the Creative Industry

30:07 Survival Strategies in a Saturated Market

34:52 Navigating Economic Downturns

40:15 The Impact of AI on Creative Services

47:15 Future Trends and Opportunities in the Creative Sector

When I met Vicente Numpaque back around 2021, Innk was at the peak with clients such as Apple and the likes. It’s not just his or my studios that were peaking. The entire industry was blooming in the post-COVID boom like no others. Little did we know about what was coming.

Around the turn of 2021/2022 Innk crashed beautifully. We met with Vicente to talk about this experience.

The battles we fought and the scars we have, are invaluable. And so are the lessons from them. Unfortunately, too often they are swept under the rug.

Time to change it.

“Scorched Wings” is my attempt to do so, unearthing the stories of studio and agency owners that closed, crashed or sunsetted their business amid the current tumultuous times.

It’s an effort to reframe personal failure into lessons of resilience, life chapters or whatever that is for you.

Enjoy the episode.Patrick

Summary

In this conversation Patrick Kizny's guest Vicente Numpaque shares his journey through the ups and downs of running Innk, the challenges he faced during the pandemic, and the lessons learned from failure. He discusses the importance of mentorship, the need for artists to embrace business knowledge, and the evolving landscape of the animation industry. Vicente reflects on his personal growth and the shift in his career focus towards visual development in animation, emphasizing the need for adaptability in a changing world.

Takeaways

Stabilizing can signify the beginning of a new chapter.

Navigating the business side of creativity can be challenging.

Failure is a part of the learning process.

Mentorship can provide invaluable guidance and perspective.

Artists must embrace business knowledge to thrive.

The animation industry is undergoing significant changes.

Rebuilding after a setback can lead to new opportunities.

Self-reflection is crucial for personal and professional growth.

Networking and marketing are essential for artists.

Adaptability is key in a rapidly changing industry.

Chapters

00:00 The Roller Coaster of Business

02:06 Navigating Success and Challenges

04:00 The Impact of COVID-19

06:31 The Downfall Begins

08:57 Facing Tough Decisions

11:14 Rebuilding After Closure

13:12 Reflections on Failure and Growth

15:29 Finding Clarity Post-Crisis

18:00 Lessons Learned from the Journey

19:46 The Future Ahead

22:57 Rebuilding After the Crash

26:10 Navigating the Animation Industry

28:55 The Value of Mentorship

33:01 Understanding Failure in Creative Industries

38:32 Advice for Aspiring Animators

42:37 The Future of Animation and Entertainment

We met with Bobby Gilespie of Propr to discuss how to, and how is it, to join the “Early Abandoners Club”. Now I got you curious…

Summary

In this conversation, Patrick Kizny and Bobby Gillespie explore the evolution of marketing and agency models, emphasizing the importance of adapting to change and focusing on strategy over mere execution. They discuss the challenges of client relationships, the shift towards instant gratification in the industry, and the necessity of defining personal success.

Bobby shares his journey from being a creative director to a strategic consultant, highlighting the significance of understanding client needs and the value of personal fulfillment in entrepreneurship.

Highlights

"Technology changes all the time. People don't."

"I always believed in doing what's best for the customer."

"It's not like 20 years down the line, you're getting a 4x return."

Takeaways

Technology changes, but people often resist change.

Strategy work yields higher profit margins than project work.

Clients often seek instant results without investing in strategy.

Defining personal success is crucial for fulfillment in business.

Entrepreneurship is a journey of continuous learning and growth.

It's important to prioritize self-care to serve others effectively.

The agency model must evolve to meet changing market demands.

Building relationships is key to successful client interactions.

Regularly updating your vision of success can prevent burnout.

The journey of entrepreneurship is as valuable as the destination.

Chapters

00:00 The Early Abandoners Club

02:27 Transitioning from Doing to Thinking

04:35 The Value of Strategy in Business

07:26 The Shift in Client Expectations Post-COVID

09:56 Defining Success and Personal Values

12:20 The Importance of Self-Care in Business

14:30 Pivots and Learning from Experience

17:01 The Hero's Journey of Entrepreneurship

19:06 Updating Your Vision of Success

The fastest way to lose your agency’s edge is to try to be everything to everyone.

The host, Patrick Kizny and Jeff Meade (Creative Friction) discuss the critical role of positioning and accountability in creative agencies, breaking down the most pressing challenges for agencies today and offering actionable advice on how to create long-term value for clients.

Questions we sparred over:

⇀ How can creative agencies design a positioning strategy that naturally draws clients to them instead of constantly chasing leads?

⇀ What are the dangers of offering too many services, and how can narrowing focus improve an agency’s market position?

⇀ What shifts can agencies make to transition from being service providers to becoming strategic partners who deliver real outcomes?

⇀ How can agencies position themselves as visionary leaders, guiding clients toward strategic goals rather than just fulfilling requests?

⇀ How can improving your own accountability unlock your agency growth?

⇀ What to expect of working with a coach, consultant and advisor?

Key Takeaways:

⇀ Positioning Matters: Agencies struggle not because of a lack of clients but because of unclear positioning.

⇀ Accountability Boosts Growth: Jeff shares how holding clients accountable can unlock their potential and ensure lasting results.

⇀ From Service to Outcomes: Transitioning from selling services to delivering outcomes can help agencies avoid commoditization.

⇀ Avoid Overextension: Agencies offering too many services dilute their value. Focus on 2-3 core offerings to strengthen your market position.

⇀ The Role of Visionary Leadership: Patrick and Jeff highlight how leadership and forward-thinking strategies can elevate your agency from a mere service provider to a trusted advisor.

#positioning #creativeagencies #leadership #branding #agencygrowth #valuecreation #coaching #accountability #visionaryleadership

Summary

What does it really mean to be a strategist in today's business landscape? In this conversation Patrick Kizny and Rob Estreitinho, the founder of Salmon Labs and former global strategy director at VCCP, explore the world of practicing and selling strategy. Together, they challenge traditional notions, discussing why the era of hefty decks and rigid methodologies is fading and how a more conversational, adaptable approach is taking center stage. From the art of balancing thinking and doing to the power of genuine relationships over transactional interactions, Patrick and Rob explore how flexibility and a multifaceted skill set can be game-changers. Whether you're a creative professional, an independent consultant, or simply curious about redefining strategy in the modern world, this episode is packed with insights and revelations you won't want to miss.

Takeaways

Strategy is an informed way to win.

The agency world views strategy as important but often undervalued.

Communication in strategy should be simplified; less is more.

Experience allows for quicker, informed decision-making.

Active listening is crucial in understanding client needs.

Cultural context influences how strategy is communicated.

Self-employment offers freedom and variety in work.

Positioning oneself flexibly can unlock new opportunities.

Sales can be approached without feeling sleazy.

Personal growth comes from embracing a multifaceted identity. Persistence leads to rewarding entrepreneurial experiences.

Creative entrepreneurs often wear many hats.

Specialization can enhance market positioning.

The future of work may focus on relationships.

A modular approach can optimize project execution.

Market fluctuations influence work diversification.

Learning from diverse experiences is valuable.

Strategy should inform practical execution.

The perception of value can affect pricing.

The market demands faster, actionable strategies.

Chapters

00:00 Defining Strategy: An Informed Way to Win

02:51 The Evolution of Strategy in Agencies vs. Independent Consulting

06:11 The Shift from Decks to Conversations

08:57 Navigating Agency Payroll and the Value of Strategy

12:09 The Importance of Active Listening in Strategy

15:01 Cultural Context and the Shift Towards Conversational Approaches

18:06 Finding Value in Strategy: Avoiding Missed Opportunities

21:02 Self-Employment: Growth and Identity as a Solo Entrepreneur

29:09 Chasing the Highs of Entrepreneurship

30:59 The Many Hats of Creative Entrepreneurs

32:29 The Importance of Specialization

34:16 The Shift Towards Relationship-Based Work

36:13 The Modular Approach to Work

38:01 Navigating Market Changes

40:17 Learning Through Diverse Experiences

42:26 The Dichotomy of Strategy and Execution

44:21 The Challenge of Selling Strategy

49:12 The Need for Practical Application of Strategy

54:44 Embracing a Fast-Paced Market

Are you relying on trust to close deals or understanding the real driver behind decision-making?

Join Patrick Kizny as he shares insight into why trust might not be as crucial as you think for business growth and how risk management can be the secret engine of success.

Key Takeaways:

Trust vs. Risk: Discover why trust is often an illusion and how risk assessment plays a more significant role in business decisions.

Binary Trust: Understand why trust is a binary gateway, not a continuum, and what this means for your client relationships.

Risk Management: Learn the importance of effective risk management over traditional trust-building.

Market Dynamics: Explore how changing B2B buyer behavior impacts the reliance on trust in sales processes.

Practical Strategies: Gain actionable strategies for leveraging risk management to streamline sales and reduce dependency on trust.

Questions for Further Reflection:

⇀ How might shifting focus from trust to risk management transform your business approach?

⇀ What are the key elements of an effective risk mitigation process in your industry?

⇀ How can you integrate risk management into your marketing and sales strategies?

⇀ What are the potential downsides of over-relying on trust in business relationships?

⇀ How can understanding the distinction between trust and risk change your client engagement tactics?

Patrick Kizny shares insight on how creative firms can navigate uncertain times by embracing visionary leadership. Instead of fearing market fluctuations, learn how to leverage uncertainty to make bold, strategic moves that resonate with clients and secure your firm's future.

𝗞𝗲𝘆 𝗧𝗮𝗸𝗲𝗮𝘄𝗮𝘆𝘀:

𝗘𝗺𝗯𝗿𝗮𝗰𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗨𝗻𝗰𝗲𝗿𝘁𝗮𝗶𝗻𝘁𝘆: Understand the true challenge isn't uncertainty itself but our reaction to it. Learn how to use uncertainty as a strategic advantage.

𝗩𝗶𝘀𝗶𝗼𝗻𝗮𝗿𝘆 𝗟𝗲𝗮𝗱𝗲𝗿𝘀𝗵𝗶𝗽: Explore the importance of leading with vision and confidence, and how it can attract and retain clients even during market downturns.

𝗖𝗹𝗶𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝗥𝗲𝗹𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻𝘀𝗵𝗶𝗽𝘀: Discover how focusing on deeper, strategic client relationships can be more beneficial than merely seeking better-paying clients.

𝗖𝗼𝗻𝗳𝗶𝗱𝗲𝗻𝗰𝗲 𝗶𝗻 𝗟𝗲𝗮𝗱𝗲𝗿𝘀𝗵𝗶𝗽: Gain insights into bolstering your leadership confidence and navigating your firm through volatile periods.

𝗣𝗿𝗼𝗮𝗰𝘁𝗶𝘃𝗲 𝗦𝘁𝗿𝗮𝘁𝗲𝗴𝘆: Learn practical steps to implement visionary leadership and turn market volatility into opportunities.

𝗤𝘂𝗲𝘀𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻𝘀 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝗥𝗲𝗳𝗹𝗲𝗰𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻:

⇀ How does our current approach to uncertainty impact our firm's success?

⇀ What can we do to bolster confidence in our leadership style during challenging periods?

⇀ What underlying factors contribute to our lack of confidence in our leadership during uncertain times?

⇀ What unspoken fears might stop us from leading boldly in uncertain times?

⇀ How can we practically implement visionary leadership in our firm and client engagements?