In this episode, retired Intelligence Unit detective Gary Jenkins talks with Eric Dezenhall, an author and former Reagan's White House aide, about his new book, Wiseguys and the White House. Eric shares his unique perspective on the fascinating and often overlooked intersection of organized crime and American politics. His curiosity on the subject began with a seemingly casual remark from a colleague about mafia influence in his hometown of Cherry Hill, New Jersey. As a young aide in the Reagan administration, that moment set him on a path to explore how deeply organized crime has intertwined itself with the fabric of American society and government.

Throughout the conversation, Eric discusses how perceptions of mobsters have shifted over the decades. In the early 20th century, gangsters were often seen as vital community figures. They provided services like gambling and liquor during Prohibition—illegal but in high demand—and were viewed as filling a societal need. By the 1970s, however, that image began to unravel. Organized crime became a symbol of decay, corruption, and violence, far removed from the Robin Hood-like aura it once carried.

Eric brings to life the stories of legendary mob figures like Meyer Lansky, detailing Lansky’s surprising role during World War II. Lansky, alongside other organized crime figures, worked with the U.S. Navy to prevent Nazi sabotage along the East Coast. Eric explains how this alliance complicates the narrative of mobsters as purely criminal; during wartime, they were sometimes perceived as patriotic contributors to the national effort. Their involvement underscores the ambiguity surrounding these figures, who operated in both legitimate and illegal spheres.

As the conversation moves into modern times, Eric discusses how organized crime continues to influence political and business landscapes. He points to figures like Donald Trump, who openly acknowledged the realities of navigating a business world shaped by organized crime in cities like New York. Eric also examines how presidents such as Reagan, Nixon, JFK, and Joe Biden managed relationships with organized crime—relationships that, while morally complex, often played a role in advancing their careers and shaping American politics in lasting ways.

This episode offers a compelling look at the intersection of crime, politics, and history through Eric Dezenhall’s sharp insights and years of research. By sharing stories of infamous mobsters and pivotal historical moments, Eric reveals a side of organized crime that is often forgotten: its influence on the nation’s leadership and its occasional alignment with patriotic causes. It’s a conversation that challenges our assumptions, blending history, politics, and crime into a nuanced and captivating narrative.

Ger Eric's books. See other books by clicking here.

Transcript

[0:00] Well, hey, welcome, all you wiretappers. Glad to be back here in studio of Gangland Wire. This is Gary Jenkins, retired Kansas City Police Intelligence Detective, a later sergeant, and I have in the studio today a prolific mob author and a guy that's written with, I know you guys know, Gus Russo and the outfit book in Chicago. Well, this is a contemporary of Gus Russo, Eric Dezenhall. Eric, I really appreciate you coming in and sharing your stories about the wise guys in the White House with my wiretappers here. Thanks very much for having me. And I won't say too many things about Gus, given that I talk to him every day. And I don't want to have to face him. So I'll be kind. Yeah, he's a good guy. I interviewed him once. I got to get him back on. You know, there's a lot of new books coming out all the time. But I need to get him back on because he's so knowledgeable. So we're not here to talk about Gus Russo. We're here to talk about wise guys in the White House, which is probably kind of topical right now. The White House has been more topical in the last, what, eight years or so than

Gary Jenkins tells about how the FBI recruited the man known as "The Grim Reaper." Scarpa's earliest arrests found him informing to the FBI.

Retired KCPD Intelligence Unit Detective Gary Jenkins takes listeners inside the Federal Prison Hospital at Springfield and the final days of John Gotti's life. Former inmate Mark Black wrote Black Truth: The Last Days of Gotti. He takes us back to his early days in the prison system, recounting his initial charge and transfer to the Springfield Federal Medical Center. There, he forged profound relationships with high-profile mafia members, gaining rare insights into their lives, codes, and the unspoken rules governing their world. Among these encounters, his time with Greg DePalma and John Gotti of the Gambino family stands out. Mark shares vivid stories of their mutual respect and the deep conversations that revealed Greg’s storied past, including connections to infamous figures like Tony Ducks and Fat Tony. Through these aging mobsters, Mark paints a fascinating picture of how street reputations followed them into prison, where they exchanged tales of past glories and upheld the mafia’s sacred code of honor.

The episode also explores Mark’s interactions with John Gotti, offering a unique glimpse into the infamous mob boss’s life behind bars. Mark delivered meals and kites (messages) for Gotti as a prison orderly. He tells about the stark contrast between Gotti’s outward bravado and the signs of stress and resignation from solitary confinement. Mark Black became Gotti's "eyes and ears" in the prison outside his solitary confinement.

Tensions rise as Mark delves into the story of a proposed hit on Nicky LaSorsa. He recounts the volatile dynamics of trust and betrayal, particularly involving a convicted drug kingpin, Jose Reyes, who sought to manipulate alliances and set up John Gotti Jr. and Greg DePalma for an early release from several life sentences. Mark’s role as an intermediary in these dangerous scenarios highlights the precarious balance between loyalty and treachery that defines the mafia lifestyle. Through these gripping accounts, Mark offers listeners an insider’s view of the unyielding nature of mob loyalty and the ever-present risks of living by its code.

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Transcript

[0:00] Well, hey, all you Wiretappers, welcome back here to the studio of Gangland Wire. This is Gary Jenkins, retired Kansas City Police Intelligence Unit Sergeant, and I have an interesting guy. He has a book, of course. You know, a lot of my guys have books. Where's that book? Oh, The Last Days of Gotti. You might want to check that book out. It's very well written. I'll assure you that. Mark D. Black. Mark, welcome. I really appreciate you coming on the show. Well, thank you, Gary. Now, Mark, as I've gone through this book, you you're like my friend, Steve St. John, who I have some other shows with many of my regular fans will know that name. And you were an orderly down in Springfield and the federal hospital and the prison hospital down there. Now, how did you even end up in the federal prison system? I guess is my first question.

[0:51] Well, I was charged with drugs and firearms violation, and I got seven years in state and then the feds. And then when I got done with my state sentence, I went to the feds and did some time at El Reno in Oklahoma City. And then when I was timing out, they decided to send me to Springfield Federal Medical Center to work to take care of the sick inmates.

In this episode, retired intelligence unit detective Gary Jenkins examines the life of Bobby Boriello, a key figure in the Gambino crime family and closely associated with John Gotti. I explore Boriello's beginnings in South Brooklyn and his ascent as an enforcer for the Gallo gang, detailing his numerous criminal activities and connections that allowed him to evade serious consequences.

This show covers his involvement in significant events, such as the assassination of Paul Castellano and the tensions with the Genovese family. I reflect on the violent and tumultuous nature of his life, culminating in his murder in 1991, which highlights the inherent dangers of organized crime. As Borrello's story unfolds, I delve into the themes of loyalty, betrayal, and power dynamics within the Mafia, offering personal insights and humor.

This will be the last episode until February. The next episode will host Mark Black, who tells about his life in the Federal prison hospital in Springfield and his care of John Gotti as he battled cancer and other mobster's plots.

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[0:00] A little story about Bobby Boriello, who was a Gambino soldier and a big moneymaker

[0:05] for the Gotti family and the Gambino family. You want to call it the Gotti family or the Gambino family? It never did become the Gotti family, did it? Much to John Gotti's chagrin, I'm sure. Anyhow, this is going to be the last one for the month of January. I'm going to take some time off. I'm going to take a little vacation. And I've been working pretty hard at doing my books. And I've done a couple of books, a New York book and the Chicago book. And I'm getting set for the next year, doing some other things this next year. So I'll get back to putting one out at least every week at the last of January. I know the one I've already got it set that we're going to come back into like, I think the last Monday or Sunday in January is going to be a guy named Mark Black, who was in the penitentiary in Springfield, the hospital, federal hospital down there. With John Gotti and some other guys. And he got all embroiled in some.

[1:02] Some mafia drama, carrying messages from one person to the other. And, and so anyhow, it's a really interesting story. It'll be a great one to come back to. So I hope you guys all had a Merry Christmas and a happy new year. I'm not very good at wishing people all that kind of stuff before I forget about it. I just put out podcasts. That's all I do. You know, me, I'm just a plain guys. Guys, come on back in February. Hey, all you wiretappers out there. Glad to be back here in the studio. Glad to have you in the studio with me. This is Gary Jenkins, retired Kansas City Police Intelligence Detective and now podcasters. Most of y'all know. If you don't, why keep listening. You'll learn who I am

[1:43] and what I'm about. I have a lot of fun doing this. Going back to New York today, guys, going to Bobby Borrello.

[1:50] Bobby Boriello was a gaudy guy, if you remember right. He probably is one of the trigger men on the Castellano hit. Now, going way on back, he grew up in South Brooklyn, and he grew up in a neighborhood that was dominated by several mob families, Gambino, Genovese, and the Columbo crime families. He was surrounded by mobsters from, you know, from the time he was a little kid.

In this Gangland Wire episode, host Gary Jenkins sits down with RJ Roger, Host of No Excuses with Michael DiLeonardo podcast, to delve into his fascinating book, The Don: 36 Rules of the Bosses. In this book, RJ outlines 36 leadership rules derived from effective leaders' behaviors in organized crime and corporate America. These rules, rooted in extensive historical research on the five New York mafia families, highlight universal power dynamics in all hierarchical structures, offering actionable insights for anyone striving to succeed—whether as a business executive or an everyday worker.

RJ challenges the romanticized portrayal of mob life, focusing instead on the stark realities of leadership within the mafia. Together, Gary and RJ draw parallels between the underworld and legitimate organizations. For example, RJ discusses the principle of “using skilled men to your benefit,” a lesson that applies across industries—including Gary’s experience in law enforcement. Both mafia bosses, police commanders, and corporate leaders face the challenge of navigating human dynamics, where the rules of engagement can make or break their success.

Throughout the conversation, RJ shares captivating stories of mob bosses and their relationships with underlings, shedding light on the nuances of leadership. The discussion touches on the importance of appearances, with RJ explaining how a leader’s presentation can shape perception and loyalty among followers. He emphasizes the delicate balance of being approachable and authoritative to maintain command—an insight that resonates across fields.

Please tune in to this thought-provoking episode to uncover the leadership lessons from the mafia that can inspire and guide us in our endeavors.

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Transcript

Speaker1:

[0:00] Well, hey, all you wiretappers out there. Good to be back here in studio of Gangland Wire. This is Gary Jenkins, retired Kansas City Police Intelligence Unit detective and later sergeant. I'm back here with another guest, an author and a fellow mob podcaster, RJ Roger. Welcome, RJ.

Speaker0:

[0:17] Thank you for having me, Gary. And I mean that this is not just camera stuff. I always wanted to have a discussion with you. I remember reaching out to you on Twitter once over before I even started working with Michael. And I just, as a respecter of what you do, because you have an elegant, classy podcast and in what we do, it ain't the norm. So I'm a major respecter.

Speaker1:

[0:41] Well thank you thank you i i kind of back i didn't understand that twitter thing back there but i have some vague memory that i don't know anyhow well finally we meet and we just had a nice little discussion about mutual mutual woes in the podcast industry and personal uh personal things to get to know each other a little bit and guys uh i assure you rj knows what he's talking about and he's a true gentleman and he has a great podcast you know uh you know i'm the one i have to take credit for this, RJ. I'm the one that got Mikey scars or Michael D. Leonardo on the air the very first time by happenstance and luck in a way I find out, but then I knew it was, it was just a lucky just somehow he just felt a certain way one day and he said, yeah, I'll come on your podcast. And now RJ has Mikey scars or Michael D.

In this bonus episode, retired police intelligence unit detective Gary Jenkins looks into a fascinating New York Times article from March 21, 1976, that sheds light on a pivotal moment in the Mafia's history—reopening their membership rosters after nearly two decades. This marked a significant turning point for the five Mafia families, where they were again allowed to induct new members into their ranks. I discuss how this decision was made cautiously, with each family permitted to initiate only ten new members, ensuring that those chosen were proven loyal and financially savvy operatives who could withstand the challenges of Mafia life.

As I analyze the shifts in power dynamics and the emergence of new figures, I point to key players such as Carmine Galante, whose ambitions peaked when he returned to the scene following a lengthy prison sentence. I provide insights into how the old guard of Mafia leadership began to decline, making way for fresh ambition and new strategies, particularly in narcotics. The interplay of rivalry, loyalty, and the ever-present financial machinations within the families illustrates the complexity of Mafia politics as they sought to adapt and thrive amid evolving criminal enterprises.

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To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here

To rent Brothers against Brothers, the documentary, click here. 

To rent Gangland Wire, the documentary, click here

To buy my Kindle book, Leaving Vegas: The True Story of How FBI Wiretaps Ended Mob Domination of Las Vegas Casinos.

To subscribe on iTunes click here. Please give me a review and help others find the podcast.

Donate to the podcast. Click here!

Transcript

[0:00] Well, hey, all you wiretappers out there, glad to be back here in Studio Gangland Wire. I've got a little bonus episode, I think. I don't know how long it's going to be, but not too long. Steve Popkin, the fan of the podcast, sent me a link to a New York Times article. Actually, it was out of the New York Times archives. They have an archive that you can access. It was dated March 21st, 1976, and the title was Five Mafia Families Opened Rosters to New Members. Well, this is back when they opened the books, finally. We hear a lot about that. The books were closed. The books were opened. They opened the books in 1976. There's a lot of guys who were made right after that.

[0:43] It's hard to figure out who they all are. It'll take a lot of time, but you all know who was made in 1976, 1977, during those years would have been right after the books were opened back up. They had to get the commission to approve of that, and there was five families

[1:02] on the commission at the time. I assume Chicago probably was, but since it was a New York deal, they probably just kept it within New York mob bosses to vote on whether they would open up the books again. Now, in this article, I bet when they read this, some of these guys read this article, they were about to shit because here's their business right down on the street. And I know they read those articles. I've got a wiretap where Nick Savella is reading an article or actually Tuffy DeLuna is reading an article to him where the, I believe it was the Wall Street Journal, was saying that Iupa was moving out west and moving into Las Vegas. And Nick Civella says, oh, boy.

[1:49] And anyhow, so, you know, I know they read this stuff and they pay attention to it. And to see this out on Front Street like this, I don't know. Anyhow, the article said that each family had been given permission to initiate 10 new members.

[2:04] And they were instructed that they had to get these, take these guys from proven moneymakers within their own family, people that they knew. because, you know,

In this last interview with our good friend and contributor, Camillus "Cam" Robinson, Gary and Cam discuss the infamous government informant Vincent "Vinnie" Teresa. Cam died recently and I will feel this loss for a long time. His gentle nature and prodigious work effort was always a great benfit to the podcast and to everybody around him. Rest in Peace to my friend and collaborator in this crazy world of mafia history. Camillus was a great historian and an excellent writer. Check out his book by clicking on the title, Chicago Swan Song: A Mob Wife's Story. Lisa Swan became the wife of Frank Calabrese, Jr., a collector for his father, the notorious and brutal Frank “Frankie the Breeze” Calabrese, a high-ranking member of the infamous Chinatown Crew. It’s all here. The money, the violence, the drugs, the greed, and the murders that surrounded her, as well as her deep passion to break free from a lifestyle that could change with the flash of a single bullet. Swan’s firsthand, intimate look inside the insular and secretive Chicago Outfit details her life inside the Calabrese Clan, one of the First Families of the Chicago Mob. She describes, with clarity and occasional humor, her discovery of the dark side of the Mafia and her battle to save herself, her children, and eventually her husband from the gritty realities of the Mob.

In this episode, we learn that Vinnie Teresa was an early mobster in the FBI's vaunted Top Echelon Informant program. In the end, Vinne Teresa was caught in an act of perjury when he tried to implicate Meyer Lansky in a criminal conspiracy.

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To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here

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To buy my Kindle book, Leaving Vegas: The True Story of How FBI Wiretaps Ended Mob Domination of Las Vegas Casinos.

To subscribe on iTunes click here. Please give me a review and help others find the podcast.

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Transcript

[0:00] Well, hey, all you wiretappers, good to be back here in the studio, Gangland Wire. This is Gary Jenkins, retired Kansas City Police Intelligence Detective and now podcaster, documentary filmmaker. And I am here with my good friend and periodic co-host, if you will, Amulus, Camillus Robinson. Cam, thanks a lot for coming on the show. Gary, I always have a blast. I mean, you and I, you got me started in this and anytime I can come on, we just love to. We have a good time getting together, don't we? Yeah, we do. So oh you know a little aside i was just researching some old stuff on chicago or newspaper clip and i saw there was a grand jury about gambling in gary indiana see cam used to live up by gary indiana and we did a show about the gary indiana family that's right.

[0:49] Ran by chicago of course hell chicago ran everything some people even say they ran kansas city they didn't really but they had a lot of influence down here kansas city next savella did not do much if he thought iupa wouldn't approve he wouldn't do it he he got iupa's approval on any major things outside of kansas city for sure they had a swung a big stick didn't they absolutely savella wasn't the kind of guy who answered to people but i think he was smart enough to know who were the big fish in the pond yeah he was smart anyhow we're going to talk about Vinnie Teresa. Vinnie Teresa is one of the earliest mob books I ever read. I'll never forget, Kim. I was in a library in the junior college. I must have been taking a class and I was just poking around. I found this book about the mafia. I wasn't into organized crime at the time. I started reading this book about this Vinnie Teresa and all the stuff that he talked about,

In this episode, Gary sits down with former FBI agent Mike Campi, a key figure in the investigation that led to the downfall of Vincent "Chin" Gigante and the Genovese crime family. Mike takes us inside the complex world of organized crime, explaining how Gigante, infamous for his feigned insanity, managed to evade law enforcement for years while secretly running the family’s operations from the shadows.

Mike shares the critical role of informants like Cookie D’Urso, whose cooperation provided the FBI with essential insights that brought them closer to Gigante. Together, we explore the meticulous surveillance and wiretapping methods used in the investigation, uncovering the challenges of gathering evidence against individuals skilled at evading law enforcement.

The conversation covers the evolution of the case from labor racketeering to a full-scale investigation into the Genovese family’s activities. Mike recounts the internal tensions and bureaucratic obstacles within the FBI and local law enforcement during this high-stakes operation.

We also dive into the theme of loyalty and betrayal within the mob. Mike tells stories of brutal retributions, betrayal, and hypocrisy in mob culture, where ambition and greed often overtake family loyalty. He highlights how figures like Cookie D’Urso and George Barone went from mob insiders to crucial witnesses, with their testimonies and recorded conversations playing a decisive role in bringing Gigante to justice—ultimately resulting in Gigante’s admission in court that he had faked insanity for years.

The episode wraps up with Mike’s reflections on the current state of organized crime, exploring how some tactics have evolved, yet the underlying nature of organized crime remains largely unchanged. This episode offers a gripping look into the strategy, patience, and grit it takes to tackle organized crime from the inside out.

Click here to get Mike's book, Mafia Takedown: The Incredible True Story of the FBI Agent Who Devastated the New York Mob

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To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here

To rent Brothers against Brothers, the documentary, click here. 

To rent Gangland Wire, the documentary, click here

To buy my Kindle book, Leaving Vegas: The True Story of How FBI Wiretaps Ended Mob Domination of Las Vegas Casinos.

To subscribe on iTunes click here. Please give me a review and help others find the podcast.

Donate to the podcast. Click here!

Transcript

0:00] Well, hey, all you wiretappers. Welcome back here in the studio of Gangland

[0:03] Wires. Gary Jenkins, retired Kansas City police detective from the intelligence unit. And I have a FBI agent today named Mike Camp. And Mike Campy was a case agent of a huge investigation on a Genovese family. This is the case that they turned a guy named Cookie Durso. And that guy ended up talking about Vincent the Chin Gigante. And in the end, that squad that Mike was attached to figured out how to get enough information to get Vincent Gigante to admit in open court that he had been put on an act all those years. You know, if you're not familiar with their story of Vincent the Chin Gigante, he was a boss of the Genovese family and he had put on an act and he was crazy. Wandered around Little Italy and Greenwich Village, wherever he lived,

[0:50] somewhere there in Manhattan, in a bath robe and talking to himself and all that. And he did it for years and years and really avoided a lot of a lot of heat when he was actually the boss of the genovese family and they put uh fat tony salerno out as the boss and everybody thought he was a boss and and so this is a guy that really ends up exposing that and he does this huge long investigation on the entire family so just sit back and listen to mike...

In this episode of Gangland Wire, Gary Jenkins, retired Kansas City police Intelligence Detective, is joined by Frank DiMatteo, a man deeply rooted in the Brooklyn mob scene, and his co-author, Michael Benson, a seasoned true crime writer. Frank brings a unique perspective, shaped by his years growing up under the mentorship of mob legends like the Gallo brothers. Together, we dive into the evolution of organized crime in New York, focusing on the rivalry between the Irish and Italian communities as they vied for control of Brooklyn’s Red Hook neighborhood. Frank recounts his early days in the mob, from running simple errands to taking on more significant operational roles. We discuss their latest book,  Red Hook: Brooklyn Mafia Ground Zero.

This is a look at the iconic neighborhood, treating Red Hook as a character in the story. The book highlights longstanding rivalries, including how the Irish initially ruled the docks until Italian immigrants arrived and tipped the scales—ultimately leading Frank to conclude that the Irish “lost because they drank too much.”

As we unpack Red Hook’s rich criminal history, Frank and Michael reveal how this area became a breeding ground for notorious figures like Al Capone and Machine Gun Jack McGurn. Through personal anecdotes and broader historical insights, they paint a vivid picture of life in a community that served as both a battleground and home for the mob. Join us as we explore Frank and Michael’s fascinating work, shedding light on the intricate layers of mob life and the neighborhoods that shaped these stories. This episode offers an unfiltered look at the history of organized crime in Brooklyn, revealing the tension between power, loyalty, and survival in a world in the shadows.

To get this book, click here for Red Hook: Brooklyn Mafia Ground Zero.

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To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here

To rent Brothers against Brothers, the documentary, click here. 

To rent Gangland Wire, the documentary, click here

To buy my Kindle book, Leaving Vegas: The True Story of How FBI Wiretaps Ended Mob Domination of Las Vegas Casinos.

To subscribe on iTunes click here. Please give me a review and help others find the podcast.

Donate to the podcast. Click here!

Transcript

[0:00] Welcome, wiretappers out there. I'm glad to be back here in the studio of Gangland Wire. This is a retired Kansas City Police Intelligence Unit detective, Gary Jenkins. Gangland Wire is the show, and I know a lot of you guys already knew who I am, but I get some new people every once in a while, so I have a great show for you today. One of these guys, Frank DiMatteo, grew up in the New York families in Brooklyn and around the Joey Gallo gang. He's got several books out, and Michael Benson is his co-author on this, and Michael Benson, prolific author. And between them, they've got books about the mob. I've got most of them already. I've got The Cigar. We've got The Buffy Hitman about Carmine DeBasse. He's one of the killers of Joy Gallo. A more recent one by Michael Benson and somebody else about moguls in Hollywood. And there'll be some mob connections. Oops, didn't have the mob connections to Hollywood. So I want to get Michael on to sometime in the future to talk about that book and Hollywood and the mob, which we know a lot about in Kansas City because we're so close to Chicago and Chicago are the guys out there in Hollywood and extorted the shit out of them. Anyhow, so welcome guys. Tell us a little bit. Maybe we start with Frank. Frank has this kind of colorful

[1:16] mob history and the way he was raised. Frank, tell the guys a little bit about yourself.

[1:22] Well i was born in my father you know got involved in this life about 1960 i grew up under the under t...

In this episode, retired Kansas City Police Intelligence Detective Gary jenkins welcomes John Oller, a former lawyer turned nonfiction author focusing on American history, biography, and true crime. John has authored a compelling true-crime book titled Gangster Hunters, shedding light on the often-overlooked FBI agents who pursued infamous criminals such as John Dillinger, Pretty Boy Floyd, and Bonnie and Clyde. While these gangsters are well-known in pop culture, the agents who risked their lives to bring them down—aside from figures like J. Edgar Hoover and Melvin Purvis—remain largely unsung.

John takes us through his meticulous research process, which involved interviewing descendants of these agents and combing through FBI files. He paints a vivid picture of the early days of the FBI, where many agents, expecting desk jobs, found themselves facing off against heavily armed gangsters. We explore pivotal historical events, including the capture of Alvin Karpis, Hoover’s drive to portray himself as a hands-on lawman, and notorious shootouts involving Babyface Nelson and Ma Barker.

The conversation also delves into the reality of the gangster era, revealing how criminals often had superior firepower compared to law enforcement and how the FBI eventually adapted by recruiting sharpshooters, including ex-Texas Rangers, to handle these dangerous adversaries.

Please tune in for a deep dive into the world of early FBI agents and the harrowing challenges they faced in the fight against America's most dangerous criminals.

Click here to get this remarkable book, Gangster Hunters.

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Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwire

Click here to "buy me a cup of coffee"

To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here

To rent Brothers against Brothers, the documentary, click here. 

To rent Gangland Wire, the documentary, click here

To buy my Kindle book, Leaving Vegas: The True Story of How FBI Wiretaps Ended Mob Domination of Las Vegas Casinos.

To subscribe on iTunes click here. Please give me a review and help others find the podcast.

Donate to the podcast. Click here!

Transcript

[0:00]Well, Hey, welcome all you wiretappers out there back here in the studio of gangland wire. This is retired Kansas city police intelligence unit, Sergeant Gary Jenkins with another show. We're going back into the thirties today. You know, you leave deal with these seventies gangsters a lot and, and, uh, sixties gangsters, uh, mafia, but this is going to go back to the thirties and the days of the bank robbers, the Midwest bank robbers. I mean, they, they caught out at got a wide swath across this country and we have a book by john aller gangster hunters and here it is and you'll you'll find links in the show notes to where you can find that book he does a great job of telling many of the unknown stories and the known stories in great detail of the famous bank robbers dillinger and uh pretty boy floyd and and uh the ma barker gang and and machine gun Kelly and all those great nicknames. So welcome, John. I really appreciate you coming on the show. Thanks for having me.

[1:02]John, how did you get into this? Tell us a little bit about your history. I was a lawyer for many years, and then I retired from active practice to pursue a writing career or writing avocation, I would call it. And I've concentrated on nonfiction, American history, biography and true crime I've done, this is my third true crime book which I find a genre that interests me what I found out is that while all the bank robbers Dillinger and Pretty Boy Floyd and Babyface Nelson, etc Bonnie and Clyde in particular have been written about many times over and movies made of them and everybody's heard of them very few people have heard know anything about the um kind of anonymous fbi agents who chased and captured and in some cases kil...