Gateway to the Smokies

In this episode, our special guest is Dale Stewart, Award-winning media host, solo explorer, naturalist, ethnologist, author, and natural sound recorder, he has lived and learned from indigenous tribes on six continents while establishing his stellar reputation as one of the foremost solo explorers in the world today. Stewart is the host of a radio show – Nature’s Edge – and has been featured on numerous national television shows on the History Channel, Discovery Channel, and Animal Planet.

Stewart has crossed the Bering Strait in a kayak, traversed the Amazon River in a canoe, and retraced the infamous Cherokee Trail of Tears by kayak—a 60-day, 1,300-mile trip from Chattanooga, Tennessee to Fort Gibson Oklahoma.

Tune in for this fun conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.

Introduces today’s topic: the sights & sounds of the wilderness and today’s special guest: Dale Stewart. Stewart explains how he came to learn to love and embrace new cultures and people on his trips across the world and how amazing and unique each location he has visited is. Each place has become a memorable trip and the reason why is more often than not, the hospitality of the people. This conversation leads to Stewart’s Cherokee Trail of Tears trip by kayak, which sparked a lot of interest from the public.

Coming back from the break, the conversation about the Cherokee and the Trail of Tears continues. There is a story that is different from what is taught in schools during the removal of many native tribes. Cherokees had a bit of a unique experience with their removal and the Trail of Tears that Stewart goes into during this conversation. The conversation shifts to Stewart’s favorite Smoky Mountains trips, where he plans to travel next, and his recommendations for great hiking trails.

Introduces the topic of sounds of the wilderness. Stewart talks about how sound can be used to see in the wild and talks more about soundscaping. With his audio documentaries, he found himself to be able to immerse others into these stories with his audio recordings of where he’s been, as he does with his works with channels, such as the Discovery Channel.

Coming back from the break, Stewart talks about what he looks for when recording audio in the wilderness. Stewart talks about where to find more information on his current and future projects that people can look forward to.

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00:00:32.730 –> 00:00:33.330 Joseph McElroy: hey.

00:00:33.540 –> 00:00:36.330 Joseph McElroy: Thanks for joining us on this week’s episode of

00:00:36.360 –> 00:00:45.660 Joseph McElroy: gateway to the smokies this podcast is about America’s most visited National Park, the great smoky mountains National Park, and the surrounding area.

00:00:46.290 –> 00:00:54.780 Joseph McElroy: This area is filled with ancient natural beauty deep storied history and rich mountain cultures that we explore weekly episodes.

00:00:55.140 –> 00:01:06.930 Joseph McElroy: I’m Joseph Franklyn McElroy a man of the world, but also with deep roots in these mountains and my family’s lived in great smokies for over 200 years my business is in travel, but my heart is in culture.

00:01:07.740 –> 00:01:13.380 Joseph McElroy: And today’s episode we’re going to learn about the sites and, more importantly, about the sounds of the wilderness.

00:01:14.280 –> 00:01:23.640 Joseph McElroy: But first we’ll give you a little bit of news, more than 6 million people have witnessed the heart-wrenching action soaring triumph of unto these hills.

00:01:23.940 –> 00:01:30.450 Joseph McElroy: For over 70 years and, after being canceled in 2020 the legacy lives on in 2021.

00:01:30.960 –> 00:01:41.550 Joseph McElroy: The iconic dread drama stage in a large outdoor amphitheater debuted for the season over memorable Memorial Day weekend and we’ll run through August 14.

00:01:42.120 –> 00:01:48.960 Joseph McElroy: This show in Cherokee chronicles the tales of Cherokee from 1782 to the 21st century.

00:01:49.350 –> 00:02:00.270 Joseph McElroy: The show includes action film fight scenes reenactments of cultural events historical events grief of Cherokee removal and resilience of the Cherokee people and culture.

00:02:00.780 –> 00:02:07.500 Joseph McElroy: shows run every night except Sundays and Mondays on Saturdays you can find out more visit CherokeeNC.com.

00:02:08.250 –> 00:02:21.570 Joseph McElroy: Also, promoting a couple of events at the Meadowlark Motel in Maggie Valley there’s going to be on July 7 or eighth there’s gonna be a PlottFest reunion weekend where they’re going to talk about the Plott how which is the same dog of North Carolina.

00:02:22.200 –> 00:02:30.390 Joseph McElroy: And plans to get a festival started and it’s going to include all sorts of celebrities and historians like Bob Plott who’s.

00:02:30.870 –> 00:02:39.360 Joseph McElroy: You know acclaimed historian of the Plott hound and you’re gonna see family guns and accouterments and hunting displays and pedigree displays.

00:02:39.960 –> 00:02:44.940 Joseph McElroy: mechanical bear baby bear bait DEMO you have a meet and greet you have food.

00:02:45.240 –> 00:02:54.750 Joseph McElroy: is going to be a wonderful time so come and see the show come to experience the event, there can be raffle items donated by Gary Bady have GT hunting supplies.

00:02:55.020 –> 00:03:01.980 Joseph McElroy: A book signing with Bob Plott and Jacob Block and there are old-time haunting tunes and balance with William Ritter.

00:03:02.430 –> 00:03:07.800 Joseph McElroy: And then there’s a fire and a pavilion and bonfires and all sorts of fun things to do.

00:03:08.250 –> 00:03:15.480 Joseph McElroy: That, on July 17 Darren Nicholson of Balsam range fame is going to have a bluegrass band camp and concert.

00:03:15.960 –> 00:03:26.010 Joseph McElroy: On Saturday, July 17 and it’s going to be a band workshop with the dead air and Nicholson ADI play lock Eric Ellis and Read Jones there’ll be songwriting.

00:03:26.520 –> 00:03:43.980 Joseph McElroy: workshop with Darren and his friends there’s going to be instrumental workshops, with the Read and mainland base with reading mandolin with their and banjo with Eric and guitar dog maybe an all-star content concert that night, so what you can get separate tickets to.

00:03:45.870 –> 00:03:56.430 Joseph McElroy: So, today I have an award-winning media host, solo explorer, naturalist, Ethnologist, Author, and Natural Sound Recorder Dale Stewart.

00:03:56.790 –> 00:04:08.070 Joseph McElroy: Who has lived and learned from indigenous tribes on six continents, while establishing his stellar reputation as one of the top solo explorers in the world today how you doing Dale.

00:04:08.520 –> 00:04:10.170 Dale Stewart: I’m great Joseph how are you, my friend.

00:04:10.470 –> 00:04:15.270 Joseph McElroy: Fine, fine the weather cleared up down to Maggie I mean down in the Asheville area.

00:04:15.660 –> 00:04:16.170 Dale Stewart: It has.

00:04:16.470 –> 00:04:27.330 Joseph McElroy: yeah good, so I understand and I did a little research you started your career as a firefighter and commercial diver but now you’re an accomplished scientist and media personality, with a.

00:04:27.600 –> 00:04:40.980 Joseph McElroy: Radio show called nature’s edge and a host of features on national TV like the animal planet and history channel discovery channel so tell me how did that amazing journey happen well.

00:04:41.010 –> 00:04:50.280 Dale Stewart: You know I grew up in Louisiana South Louisiana and Central Louisiana and kind of grew up as an outdoors person I mean my whole family.

00:04:51.090 –> 00:05:00.630 Dale Stewart: love the outdoors and we spent a great deal of time there, and so we just sort of an evolution, I was one of those guys that never really wanted to.

00:05:01.410 –> 00:05:19.620 Dale Stewart: To have a real job I guess that you know sitting behind a desk I could never visualize myself for when that eight to five rolled so it did you sort of morphed into me seeking to go other places and learn how other people lived and about their culture.

00:05:20.610 –> 00:05:26.880 Joseph McElroy: I find an inquisitive mind seems to be a necessary part of what you do so.

00:05:28.500 –> 00:05:41.520 Joseph McElroy: So you’ve led this incredible life and they’re still going strong and you always seem to be looking for new challenges and you’ve crossed the Bering strait and I think kayak and you traverse the Amazon river that canoe.

00:05:41.790 –> 00:05:45.450 Joseph McElroy: So are those your favorite solo trips are there, others.

00:05:46.110 –> 00:05:59.520 Dale Stewart: You know I really and I get asked this question a lot, you know about picking a favorite and I, you know I really don’t have a favorite you know I’ve been to some amazing places and every place that I’ve gone to.

00:06:00.240 –> 00:06:10.230 Dale Stewart: I selected for a specific reason, whether it was you know the environment, whether it was the culture of the people that were there, whether it was the wildlife that was there, so.

00:06:10.590 –> 00:06:22.020 Dale Stewart: Every place I’ve gone has had a uniqueness to it that I find exhilarating and as a solo explore, I mean one of the reasons I think anyone gets into exploration is.

00:06:22.470 –> 00:06:36.210 Dale Stewart: is to gain knowledge and to learn, and then the two I think it’s also important to come back and share that knowledge so picking one spot would be extremely difficult because they all have their uniqueness about them.

00:06:36.930 –> 00:06:37.740 Joseph McElroy: Well, is.

00:06:38.820 –> 00:06:42.000 Joseph McElroy: You know I am a travel marketer right.

00:06:42.180 –> 00:06:47.160 Joseph McElroy: And yeah and I did research into what people you know what makes travel.

00:06:47.730 –> 00:06:53.850 Joseph McElroy: You know what will get people to do to revisit things like that and go back to something else and it’s.

00:06:54.180 –> 00:07:12.540 Joseph McElroy: And it’s there’s a concept called memorable travel and tourism experiences that in academia they’ve invented but I’ve sort of taken it and made it into the practical approach and but basically there’s that there’s you have experiences that become flashbulb memories in your head right.

00:07:12.930 –> 00:07:22.110 Joseph McElroy: yeah that you just remember vividly and it’s really if you experience some several one at one or two or three of several emotions like.

00:07:22.410 –> 00:07:34.770 Joseph McElroy: You know you got to have the immersion into a local culture yeah and that that sort of feeling of belonging or new knowledge that you got her hedonism you know, food and drink or.

00:07:35.100 –> 00:07:47.070 Joseph McElroy: or refreshment like a feeling of so what would make what makes him a solo exploring trip very memorable that you have these flashbulb memories and do you have any that you can mention.

00:07:48.270 –> 00:07:51.030 Dale Stewart: Well sure I mean, I have a lot of them and.

00:07:52.830 –> 00:08:00.120 Dale Stewart: because every time I do an expedition whether it’s solo or whether I’m just traveling.

00:08:00.930 –> 00:08:12.420 Dale Stewart: You know there, there are always things that I’m looking forward to trying together, I think you know, one of the things about traveling around the world that I’ve been fortunate to do that, that probably made the largest impression on me.

00:08:13.620 –> 00:08:15.150 Dale Stewart: Was the hospitality of the people.

00:08:16.800 –> 00:08:18.870 Dale Stewart: Whether it was a hospitality of the people.

00:08:20.250 –> 00:08:30.960 Dale Stewart: In a remote tribal village in the Amazon, or whether it was the hospitality of other people in a larger city that the way people treat one another.

00:08:32.910 –> 00:08:50.820 Dale Stewart: One on one to me has always been one of the things that sort of stood out for me and then, of course, you know the, you have the scenery and and and the sounds and learning to use your other senses and everything else that makes each individual place unique with Anton right.

00:08:51.720 –> 00:08:56.850 Joseph McElroy: You know is that it, you know isn’t that interesting it’s like you go to these faraway places.

00:08:57.450 –> 00:09:07.980 Joseph McElroy: And you know, to see a giant mountain or long river or some animal or something like that you know, but then you come away with a deep memory of the people.

00:09:08.430 –> 00:09:18.060 Joseph McElroy: Right and the interactions with the local culture and that really is what sets these trips apart yeah and a lot of ways, you know, in that, in that, like.

00:09:18.960 –> 00:09:32.010 Joseph McElroy: Traditionally, what do you live in the by you, but we’re talking about the smoky mountains you’re living in really strong cultural traditions in that white people come back and a lot of ways to those cultures to go visit.

00:09:32.910 –> 00:09:43.440 Dale Stewart: Well, I think, so you know growing up in Louisiana certainly I was surrounded by a lot of different various cultures, you know from the Korean culture to the cajun call her the home, I Indian culture.

00:09:44.850 –> 00:10:00.150 Dale Stewart: And, and the various unique cultures, and I think that was really one of the things that made me want to get out there and see what the rest of the world was like and look and really study these other cultures and and and try to learn as much as I could about them.

00:10:00.750 –> 00:10:08.730 Joseph McElroy: You know I am I’m married my wife, you know and in 2017 I met her in 2014 and.

00:10:09.120 –> 00:10:21.870 Joseph McElroy: You know, one of the things that sealed the deal with me is she actually took me to Trinidad’s earlier relationship and I got to experience actually doing their version of mardi gras was called playing master you know.

00:10:23.130 –> 00:10:34.770 Joseph McElroy: carnival and it was just such a deep enriching experience I just love being part of that family experience, I think that she sent me up the way.

00:10:36.720 –> 00:10:48.900 Dale Stewart: You know it’s like a drink like and you mentioned this and travel, I mean every time I speak to someone that that’s been to a location, particularly out of the United States, they always say Max I can’t wait to go back there.

00:10:49.860 –> 00:11:06.570 Dale Stewart: So it does you know, and I think at heart we’re all explorers and we all like to do that, you know when I leave a place I’m looking for that next adventure that next location, but I find that most people want to go back to where they just returned from for one reason or not.

00:11:07.140 –> 00:11:13.590 Joseph McElroy: yeah yeah yeah the marketing industry in the hospitality industry to talents on that, frankly.

00:11:13.950 –> 00:11:25.260 Joseph McElroy: yeah it’s called revisit intention and brand loyalty and all that sort of stuff and we essentially business couldn’t really survive if you didn’t have that so you know, the vast majority of people.

00:11:25.620 –> 00:11:41.070 Joseph McElroy: You know our love to go back to the comfort of what they know because they have that that warm memory, but there are others yeah I’m a big you know I love to go exploring as well, I do it in different ways, you know I’m not the adventure that you are.

00:11:42.540 –> 00:11:51.930 Joseph McElroy: But I understand the drive of it, you know I come up more of an outdoorsman I probably wouldn’t be the following a path similar to yours.

00:11:52.920 –> 00:11:59.790 Dale Stewart: You know, you can explore anywhere, you can explore your own backyard or in your own community you live in.

00:11:59.820 –> 00:12:01.710 Dale Stewart: So there’s always a villain.

00:12:02.100 –> 00:12:04.560 Joseph McElroy: I like to explore the big cities, I.

00:12:04.560 –> 00:12:12.060 Joseph McElroy: Like or other culture and the depths of it and that sort of stuff but I love I also love to go to a small town too I love.

00:12:12.510 –> 00:12:19.290 Joseph McElroy: Where people congregate and commerce and living and understand the pathways that are happening there.

00:12:19.920 –> 00:12:29.490 Joseph McElroy: But anyway, let’s back to the smokies because I do that’s where my heritage and what I grew up with, and you know, being a self-centered guy that it is I got to celebrate the culture that produces me.

00:12:33.180 –> 00:12:37.470 Joseph McElroy: So let me hear they’re the smokies you know people are very.

00:12:38.520 –> 00:12:43.590 Joseph McElroy: I mean I’ve seen some articles that people are very intrigued by your chair key trail of tears trip.

00:12:44.280 –> 00:12:56.760 Joseph McElroy: yeah you retrace the infamous tale of two years by kayak a 60 day 1300 mile trip from Chattanooga to Fort gifts in Oklahoma, can you tell us a little bit about how it came about.

00:12:57.390 –> 00:13:06.870 Dale Stewart: Well, absolutely you know, I was looking for something to do here in the United States, most of my explanations had been overseas, or in other locales.

00:13:08.220 –> 00:13:13.530 Dale Stewart: Although I had paddled some of the major rivers here in the United States, like the Mississippi in Missouri and then oh wow.

00:13:14.040 –> 00:13:27.840 Dale Stewart: And so I was looking around and I had a lot of good friends over in Cherokee with each and bear the Cherokee Indian and also because I’m somewhat of a historian was aware that 170 fifth anniversary of the trail of tears was coming up.

00:13:28.950 –> 00:13:39.600 Dale Stewart: Back in 2012 and when I did this, and so I began to look around and decided was over talking to some of the elders in Cherokee.

00:13:40.050 –> 00:13:45.900 Dale Stewart: And they asked me about the water route they knew I paddled and they said, what do you know about the water route and I said nothing.

00:13:46.500 –> 00:13:51.510 Dale Stewart: I didn’t even know, there was a water route at that time and I found that most people did not know that.

00:13:51.840 –> 00:13:57.720 Dale Stewart: So I started looking around and decided hey you know, this is something that I need to do both to bring attention.

00:13:58.110 –> 00:14:04.980 Dale Stewart: To the trail of tears and something and to bring attention to the fact that there was a water route and.

00:14:05.520 –> 00:14:16.740 Dale Stewart: What many people don’t know the trail of tears also as you’re probably aware of not only include the Cherokee but also the Chickasaw the chalk call the creek and the Seminole the FAB.

00:14:17.070 –> 00:14:18.570 Joseph McElroy: Five civilized tribes.

00:14:19.320 –> 00:14:22.140 Dale Stewart: All of them were removed by water at some point.

00:14:22.200 –> 00:14:32.190 Dale Stewart: Some portion of them a seminar will remove one simple water, so I decided to retrace the water route and started in Chattanooga on the Tennessee River.

00:14:32.580 –> 00:14:41.700 Dale Stewart: paddled it up to Ohio and then turn left on the Ohio river to the Mississippian turn South on Mississippi to the Arkansas Reverend and paddle the Arkansas river Oklahoma.

00:14:42.150 –> 00:14:47.850 Joseph McElroy: wow well when we come back, I want to talk a little bit more about that and then find out some of the other ventures that you’ve had.

00:14:48.270 –> 00:14:48.990 Absolutely.

00:16:48.390 –> 00:16:49.710 educating our.

00:17:21.750 –> 00:17:29.160 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklyn McElroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcasts and my guest Dale Stewart.

00:17:29.490 –> 00:17:39.390 Joseph McElroy: So Dale I was researching around reading a little bit about you and so on interviewing you did in the sylvan have a newspaper about the about your chair key trip.

00:17:39.900 –> 00:17:48.480 Joseph McElroy: And you said, one can say the Cherokee nation is one of the most successful nations or tracks or tribes around and I don’t mean in the casino business, what did you mean.

00:17:49.530 –> 00:17:51.060 Dale Stewart: Well, they have a.

00:17:52.080 –> 00:17:53.670 Dale Stewart: Not only a great culture.

00:17:54.960 –> 00:17:59.670 Dale Stewart: But they’re survivors, I mean you know a lot of most of the.

00:18:00.720 –> 00:18:09.120 Dale Stewart: Indian nation chip van their growth drivers, I mean if you look at what they went through with the what’s around a product of the trail of tears.

00:18:09.600 –> 00:18:17.670 Dale Stewart: And you look at the division, if you will, of the Cherokee, of course, you have the Cherokee Eastern bound the Cherokee.

00:18:17.970 –> 00:18:28.230 Dale Stewart: located in western North Carolina on the quad boundary he has a Cherokee nation now, which is in Tahlequah Oklahoma and then you have the Dubai on a tear key, which is also headquartered toe.

00:18:28.590 –> 00:18:38.460 Dale Stewart: And so, even though they’ve had a separation of in many ways they’re still very successful as a tribe in.

00:18:39.060 –> 00:18:53.820 Dale Stewart: In everything they do yeah not just a casino but in other endeavors that they have done and keeping their language alive and continuing to keep their culture and just the way they celebrate their lifestyle.

00:18:54.540 –> 00:19:11.760 Joseph McElroy: Well, I read and I read it, you were talking about how this water voyage was the when they did it, they were surprising organized about it right or unexpected not from maybe at the time, but from our perception of what the trail of tears is.

00:19:12.630 –> 00:19:22.350 Dale Stewart: yeah you know, one of the things that the Cherokee were actually one of the last tribes removed if not the Left rob removed a lot of that had to do with their they had good.

00:19:23.850 –> 00:19:36.990 Dale Stewart: Political insight and Washington DC and were able to through a number of legal maneuvers and other things we’re able to kind of delay the inevitable which, which was the removal.

00:19:38.250 –> 00:19:46.620 Dale Stewart: But one of the things I negotiated where they actually were able to organize and do a lot of the removal themselves.

00:19:47.790 –> 00:20:00.060 Dale Stewart: Were yes, I had they still had military escorts and such but, for the most part, they were able to to do it themselves, and even the even on the water route.

00:20:00.780 –> 00:20:09.540 Dale Stewart: You have to understand that early on all of the tribes, the Federal Government really wanted to remove all the crowd by water they thought it would be faster quicker and easier.

00:20:10.470 –> 00:20:21.600 Dale Stewart: found out that it was not the case, it might have been quicker, but it was certainly the rivers were certainly not what they are today and they pretty much just packed them on barges.

00:20:23.070 –> 00:20:41.400 Dale Stewart: shoulder to shoulder, and in the heat and you know dysentery and other diseases became very commonplace on that and I know when I paddle in the water route, the summer that I found it in 2012 I paddled, for I think it was 20 something days with a temperature in excess of 100 degrees.

00:20:41.490 –> 00:20:42.090 Joseph McElroy: or your.

00:20:43.530 –> 00:20:51.450 Dale Stewart: manager imagine what you know, and I had pretty sophisticated gear with me, so I could just imagine what.

00:20:52.650 –> 00:20:57.450 Dale Stewart: The these the removal Indians had to suffer just being packed.

00:20:58.470 –> 00:21:02.910 Dale Stewart: like sardines on a barge of some kind.

00:21:03.570 –> 00:21:08.400 Joseph McElroy: You know I complain about having to walk to the coffee shop on a 100-degree day in New York City.

00:21:11.370 –> 00:21:17.430 Joseph McElroy: So I heard, there was a documentary and a book about that trip that you were working on is that we have become available.

00:21:17.940 –> 00:21:21.780 Dale Stewart: Well, not yeah and you know, and I get asked that question a lot.

00:21:22.830 –> 00:21:25.500 Dale Stewart: The book is probably 98% finished.

00:21:26.940 –> 00:21:29.280 Dale Stewart: What happens is life gets in the way.

00:21:29.430 –> 00:21:31.230 Joseph McElroy: Oh, always always always.

00:21:31.740 –> 00:21:41.610 Dale Stewart: Things and so it’s just a matter of me finding a little opportunity to finish the book up and get it out there which I want to do, I mean.

00:21:42.810 –> 00:21:52.950 Dale Stewart: As I said, I’m a big believer in sharing knowledge and what we found out and I’ve been very lucky, I still to this day, get asked to speak, a lot about the trail of tears and.

00:21:53.550 –> 00:22:01.080 Dale Stewart: about other things and people always asked me the other question are you Cherokee or do you have it, no I’m Scottish I’m pretty much.

00:22:02.340 –> 00:22:03.810 Dale Stewart: As far as I know, have had.

00:22:05.010 –> 00:22:07.860 Dale Stewart: No Indian heritage in my background.

00:22:09.150 –> 00:22:19.080 Dale Stewart: But having said that, I always think it’s important to share this kind of historical event so that we don’t repeat them, and so that we don’t forget about them.

00:22:19.170 –> 00:22:22.770 Joseph McElroy: yeah are these as well, I really admired you for doing that.

00:22:24.390 –> 00:22:30.720 Joseph McElroy: So you have literally explored and live for weeks and months, at a time on six continents.

00:22:31.140 –> 00:22:37.860 Joseph McElroy: yeah very interesting days at a time and 100-degree temperature and swapping waters let’s not mention that.

00:22:39.180 –> 00:22:53.430 Joseph McElroy: So you have experienced some of the most amazing places in the world, it could live anywhere, you wish that you chose the national and made it your own for years, what makes Asheville the surrounding region so special, why did you choose to make your hope there.

00:22:55.110 –> 00:23:00.060 Dale Stewart: The smoky mountains, the miles, and miles of hiking trails the

00:23:01.170 –> 00:23:04.560 Dale Stewart: placid lakes, the streams of water, the whitewater.

00:23:06.060 –> 00:23:22.740 Dale Stewart: pretty much anything that I want to do I’ve got and we have available to us here in Western North Carolina as well as a lot of people may not know or forgot the highest mountains on the eastern coast of the United States are located in western North Carolina.

00:23:24.240 –> 00:23:25.740 Joseph McElroy: mount Mitchell right now.

00:23:26.640 –> 00:23:28.830 Dale Stewart: I’m Michel is the tallest we have other mountains.

00:23:29.130 –> 00:23:29.640 Dale Stewart: You know there.

00:23:29.970 –> 00:23:31.500 Dale Stewart: Are thousand feet and so.

00:23:33.090 –> 00:23:35.190 Dale Stewart: You know I I love those mountains.

00:23:35.850 –> 00:23:40.230 Joseph McElroy: I do, too, I like skyscrapers on the top of mountains and.

00:23:41.880 –> 00:23:42.270 Dale Stewart: I like.

00:23:42.420 –> 00:23:44.070 Joseph McElroy: To view yeah.

00:23:45.120 –> 00:23:50.160 Dale Stewart: Like climbing up on the top of a mountain tonight and being up there when the sun comes up.

00:23:50.550 –> 00:24:01.830 Joseph McElroy: yeah I was a kid my brother and I used to go to the top of the property where we lived and had a great view to build ourselves for it up there, we go sleep but there’s just the way go.

00:24:02.640 –> 00:24:02.880 yeah.

00:24:04.110 –> 00:24:11.130 Dale Stewart: Haywood county has some of the best hiking trails and Western North Carolina around the valley and areas that you’re very familiar with.

00:24:11.310 –> 00:24:14.130 Joseph McElroy: yeah they’re great they’re all there are dependence trails.

00:24:14.520 –> 00:24:18.810 Joseph McElroy: Absolutely know what are your favorites, what is your favorite smoky mountain adventure.

00:24:19.980 –> 00:24:20.790 Dale Stewart: Oh, goodness.

00:24:22.680 –> 00:24:26.070 Dale Stewart: You know, again it’s kind of like asking me worth my favorite place.

00:24:27.300 –> 00:24:41.640 Dale Stewart: name and I, you know I wake up on any given morning and I kind of decide if, when I want to get outside where I want to go hiking or what I want to grab one of my books and go paddle or are do I want to combine the two which I, which I often do.

00:24:42.270 –> 00:24:42.870 Dale Stewart: But I.

00:24:43.290 –> 00:24:54.180 Dale Stewart: You know, again I’m still exploring these mountains I’ve lived here now for nearly 20 years and they are still many places that I have yet to try and.

00:24:54.840 –> 00:25:07.380 Dale Stewart: And until I don’t really I’m not one to sort of following the trails that are already that people know out there, I tend to go make my own path, mainly because when I’m out there, I don’t want to see other people.

00:25:08.760 –> 00:25:15.810 Joseph McElroy: We know the in the art world, they want to ask him if he was because of the teeth what his favorite painting, he was.

00:25:16.020 –> 00:25:19.320 Joseph McElroy: yeah he said, the next one, so what’s your next adventure.

00:25:20.910 –> 00:25:22.230 Dale Stewart: You know that’s

00:25:24.090 –> 00:25:29.070 Dale Stewart: And we can talk about this a little later, but you know I’ve really got into recording nature sounds.

00:25:30.870 –> 00:25:35.250 Dale Stewart: And so pretty much what I’m doing now, or a year around that.

00:25:36.330 –> 00:25:46.140 Dale Stewart: And the probably been my next out-of-country trip will be back to back to East Africa Kilimanjaro cool.

00:25:46.830 –> 00:25:58.440 Joseph McElroy: Well, is there any favorite hiking or canoeing or you don’t say my favorite what immediately comes to mind of a good hiking spot and canoeing sparked you to recommend some people go visit when they come there.

00:25:59.220 –> 00:26:07.290 Dale Stewart: Well, of course, the Appalachian trail comes through here and people can take different walks on it.

00:26:08.580 –> 00:26:13.680 Dale Stewart: let’s see the black balsam trail is a good trail.

00:26:14.940 –> 00:26:32.550 Dale Stewart: Deep creek trail is another trail that I like a cold mountain has some great trails that you can walk and then, of course, I really like I’m a big fan of Horrace Kephart and I really like to get park prom trail over in the smoky mountain National Park.

00:26:33.030 –> 00:26:39.300 Joseph McElroy: Oh cool Those are all really great ones and the stream it’s great for canoeing.

00:26:40.440 –> 00:26:46.920 Dale Stewart: Oh, am if there’s enough water for me to get get my boat in I’m all for it because I don’t live very.

00:26:47.490 –> 00:26:56.670 Dale Stewart: Lacking I’m almost to rock because the french broad river, from where I live, so I spent a lot of time on the French broad and it’s just kind of it can be a nice easy.

00:26:57.660 –> 00:27:07.170 Dale Stewart: river to be on or if it’s heavy rain, it can be something else if I want a little more excitement I can head over to the Navajo young and getting a little white water and.

00:27:08.400 –> 00:27:19.710 Dale Stewart: get up there, but in the summertime, these rivers, like the trails can get awfully busy so I’m looking for that that next little creek drag gets on it doesn’t have a lot of people on.

00:27:21.480 –> 00:27:25.890 Joseph McElroy: So so let’s talk food you’re a Louisiana native and we know that.

00:27:25.950 –> 00:27:39.450 Joseph McElroy: yeah yeah you know that there’s some great food in Louisiana so I’m sure you have a good appreciation of various cuisine especially southern cuisines tell me about your favorite place in the smokies around national that we want.

00:27:40.050 –> 00:27:40.590 Dale Stewart: Oh man.

00:27:42.180 –> 00:27:48.480 Dale Stewart: Again, there are a lot of great little small restaurants in the Asheville area in Western North Carolina.

00:27:49.230 –> 00:28:01.350 Dale Stewart: one place, that I find going to quite a bit just because I like sitting outside is the Hemingway CAFE and downtown nicely like got a great rooftop area place to sit.

00:28:01.920 –> 00:28:13.920 Dale Stewart: And you were mentioned, I was from Louisiana when I get a hankering for benny’s there’s a great little New Orleans CAFE and the growth park in those sales beanies and that great Louisiana coffee Community coffee.

00:28:14.250 –> 00:28:14.970 Joseph McElroy: Oh wow.

00:28:15.570 –> 00:28:29.580 Dale Stewart: So it’s there, so you know but, just like exploring I my wife and I like to seek out little sort of out of the way restaurants, that that have great food and they’re sort of scattered around everywhere.

00:28:30.060 –> 00:28:38.520 Joseph McElroy: yeah it’s really surprising how you can just you know stop and look for a hole in the wall and go in there and just really have a great meal yeah.

00:28:39.660 –> 00:28:40.020 Dale Stewart: Totally.

00:28:40.260 –> 00:28:45.630 Joseph McElroy: yeah so people get very clear to the actual areas become a foodie haven.

00:28:46.920 –> 00:28:47.190 Dale Stewart: yeah.

00:28:47.340 –> 00:28:49.530 Dale Stewart: All right, and that in and beer.

00:28:49.920 –> 00:28:57.060 Joseph McElroy: That in beer you definitely get a good gain your the weights, you need to stock up for your adventures.

00:28:57.660 –> 00:28:58.050 yeah.

00:28:59.550 –> 00:29:07.380 Dale Stewart: Well, you know craft beer I’m begging Western North Carolina, and I just actually but it almost any of the old times you go into he’s got a craft beer placement.

00:29:08.010 –> 00:29:11.160 Joseph McElroy: Now you also know a little bit about Highlands ever cabin out there right.

00:29:11.640 –> 00:29:12.300 Dale Stewart: What do you like yeah.

00:29:14.730 –> 00:29:22.260 Dale Stewart: yeah well, of course, in a Holland catchers area is just another one of those great little places that.

00:29:22.830 –> 00:29:30.630 Dale Stewart: You started gotta be wanting to go there to get there, but you know how long’s North Carolina it’s just an amazing little town.

00:29:31.020 –> 00:29:34.890 Dale Stewart: You know, in the wintertime I think there are less than 900 people there and then it.

00:29:35.370 –> 00:29:44.010 Dale Stewart: sort of exploded in the summer, because a lot of people have second homes they’re particularly Atlanta corralled tends to come up there, but again, this great.

00:29:44.460 –> 00:29:58.530 Dale Stewart: outdoor areas great hiking areas great restaurants in that in that area and great people, one of the things that I find surprising is I’m always excited when I find somebody that’s an ad from look there.

00:30:00.690 –> 00:30:02.070 Dale Stewart: there’s not many of them it’s saying.

00:30:02.730 –> 00:30:07.830 Joseph McElroy: Well yeah there was never a big it was like when I was going to Maggie Valley hundred people now.

00:30:08.010 –> 00:30:10.830 Joseph McElroy: yeah claim to him yeah lots more.

00:30:13.260 –> 00:30:18.330 Joseph McElroy: So when we come back we’re talking about your sounds of the wilderness sounds very interesting.

00:30:18.930 –> 00:30:19.680 Absolutely.

00:33:08.760 –> 00:33:21.060 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklyn McElroy back with a gateway to the smokies podcasts in my guest Dale Stewart’s and Dale you know I’m also an artist.

00:33:21.480 –> 00:33:26.070 Joseph McElroy: And some of my actually some of the most profound artistic experiences I’ve had.

00:33:26.430 –> 00:33:32.130 Joseph McElroy: going to show their museums, have been sound installations, where people will do slices of life or.

00:33:32.400 –> 00:33:46.170 Joseph McElroy: You know, or the nature or whatever I remember also as a kid here hearing for the first time this sounds of a way along recording it just blew me away because I didn’t know they could do that sort of thing, so you have.

00:33:46.860 –> 00:33:53.820 Joseph McElroy: Well, you know you’ve been doing this thing of you know, the sounds of the wilderness, and you have this recording career and you’ve been.

00:33:54.810 –> 00:34:04.680 Joseph McElroy: you’ve done some incorporating natural sounds and some records by country artists correct right so, can you count to get some of that and what you’ve done and who you’ve worked with.

00:34:05.670 –> 00:34:17.550 Dale Stewart: Well yeah I mean sound is is something that I really developed as a solo explore, I mean one of them as humans sound is one of those things that keeps us safe.

00:34:18.780 –> 00:34:30.930 Dale Stewart: And so, when I was out there in the middle of nowhere by myself, not only was I using my vision to see what was going on, I was using my ears and Emma other senses, you know the smell and.

00:34:31.650 –> 00:34:38.160 Dale Stewart: All of those things that go into analyzing what’s going on in an environment.

00:34:38.610 –> 00:34:51.300 Dale Stewart: And certainly if you’re in if you’re deep in the jungle and you’re you hear a lot of animals and you hear a lot of things going on and then all of a sudden everything just shuts down that’s that’s can be a warning sign that.

00:34:52.080 –> 00:34:52.440 Dale Stewart: might be.

00:34:52.740 –> 00:34:59.550 Dale Stewart: Something else out there, that you need to be aware of, but one of the great regrets I have is that early on.

00:35:01.470 –> 00:35:10.770 Dale Stewart: Going back gosh nearly 40 years now that I didn’t have my recorder with me on many of the TRIPS and many of the places I’ve gone it.

00:35:11.400 –> 00:35:17.550 Dale Stewart: it’s one of the things that makes me want to go back and record those sounds again, but I guess.

00:35:18.330 –> 00:35:35.430 Dale Stewart: You know, probably the last 10 or 12 years I’ve gotten very involved with recording what we call soundscapes and soundscape is sort of the sounds of a given environment, so I could have my equipment and record a sound in downtown New York City or downtown Asheville.

00:35:36.510 –> 00:35:45.180 Dale Stewart: And also take those recordings and go high into the mountains of Western North Carolina and record the sounds that.

00:35:45.750 –> 00:35:53.100 Dale Stewart: Have a brook of a waterfall of birds, is it landed trees and also learned that.

00:35:53.730 –> 00:36:03.180 Dale Stewart: The sounds change to write it right at dusk and write it daylight you go from sort of the daytime sounds to the nighttime sounds and that was that’s become.

00:36:03.630 –> 00:36:16.200 Dale Stewart: Pretty pretty interesting to me and I built a pretty large library, if you will, of these sounds one of the things that I’ve been doing for a number of years now, is doing by narrow or immersive sounds and.

00:36:17.430 –> 00:36:23.070 Dale Stewart: venereal sound recording is the way we here as humans, we have two ears that we herein.

00:36:24.630 –> 00:36:34.920 Dale Stewart: When I’m looking ahead on to you and I’m talking you’re hearing me in both of your ears, but if you turn one way or the other you’re going to pick up the sound and that here first is going to travel through.

00:36:35.340 –> 00:36:45.930 Dale Stewart: To the other year and so bonnier recording really record sounds the way the human actually hears them so I’ve gotten to do that and, as I developed.

00:36:45.960 –> 00:36:49.110 Joseph McElroy: a documentary that doesn’t require special equipment or.

00:36:49.350 –> 00:36:59.910 Dale Stewart: It does require special microphones and and and and a little knowledge is a little more to it than just sticking a microphone out there and recording something.

00:37:01.230 –> 00:37:14.730 Dale Stewart: But yeah so I kind of got known for doing that and emerging and also consider myself a storyteller so in doing documentaries or auto documentaries, I was looking for some way to integrate this sound.

00:37:15.270 –> 00:37:25.740 Dale Stewart: That could actually pull you into the to what I was doing or into the environment that the story was taking place and a found immersive sound or 3D sound or by an aerial sound.

00:37:26.400 –> 00:37:39.360 Dale Stewart: actually did that, because now, the sound is coming from you in all directions and not just in a mono or stereotype thing you were talking about the music industry and some things.

00:37:40.170 –> 00:37:48.000 Dale Stewart: A number of years ago, and most of this has been with producers buying the sounds more so than working specifically with given artists so.

00:37:48.870 –> 00:37:57.930 Dale Stewart: A producer, excuse me make purchase a sound of have running water or birds, or something else, and they may use it that sound in.

00:37:58.710 –> 00:38:05.850 Dale Stewart: Two or three different recordings with two or three different artists so it’s kind of all over the place, and then, of course, I work a lot with.

00:38:06.480 –> 00:38:14.430 Dale Stewart: With nature documentary people that are doing things for National Geographic discovery channel history channel travel channel.

00:38:15.150 –> 00:38:25.170 Dale Stewart: Where again we’re starting to use more and more immersive sound in those documentaries, to help pull the people and not just visually but with Sound

00:38:25.710 –> 00:38:41.010 Dale Stewart: You were talking about artists, I have, I have worked with a couple now, while I photographers who have had had shows of their work and they asked me to attach a sound card to their picture.

00:38:42.120 –> 00:38:45.420 Dale Stewart: And that’s been interesting and I’ve really enjoyed doing that.

00:38:46.200 –> 00:38:58.530 Joseph McElroy: That is cool I mean you know all of a sudden my mind is going a lot of different ways, and this is what triggers me this kind of things you know content is king I got another podcast called wise content yeah.

00:38:58.560 –> 00:39:05.910 Joseph McElroy: Creative writing content is king, but wise content rules, the world, and you know it’s about having more than just.

00:39:06.240 –> 00:39:24.480 Joseph McElroy: written word it’s yeah it’s all sorts of stuff It strikes me is especially in a travel destination, especially something like the smokies it’d be interesting to have certain articles that also have a sound right of the areas that would be sort of cool right you.

00:39:24.480 –> 00:39:39.780 Joseph McElroy: can actually you can hear the sound of the waterfall or you could hear the sound of the night when the fireflies are out and that sort of thing that that’s actually artistic romantic and interesting all it’s the same time.

00:39:40.890 –> 00:39:48.960 Dale Stewart: Yeah and you know it’s funny you mentioned fireflies I mean one of the other things that great in which you know about I’m sure, but you know we have a.

00:39:49.890 –> 00:40:01.260 Dale Stewart: synchronous firefly exhibit in the smoky mountains, this time of year, you know first of my first again over in the smoky mountain national park and.

00:40:02.340 –> 00:40:10.170 Dale Stewart: I mean it’s just worth millions and millions of these firefighters come together during a mating season and it’s truly a psycho.

00:40:10.920 –> 00:40:12.780 Joseph McElroy: I do they have a sound too.

00:40:13.710 –> 00:40:23.040 Dale Stewart: They do somewhat yeah I’ve ordered it’s not it’s almost like recording a bunch of mosquitoes but not quite this.

00:40:24.930 –> 00:40:25.560 Joseph McElroy: buzz.

00:40:26.010 –> 00:40:26.490 Dale Stewart: yeah but.

00:40:26.910 –> 00:40:39.390 Dale Stewart: yeah but I, you know I’m always looking at ways to record things I mean I’ve taken a little lapel microphone, if you will, and stuck them up and rotting logs and trees, just to record the insects that are in there.

00:40:40.620 –> 00:40:41.820 Dale Stewart: it’s it’s quite unusual.

00:40:42.480 –> 00:40:49.500 Joseph McElroy: Do you find it do you mean I’m assuming that there’s some importance there, but do you find it.

00:40:50.520 –> 00:40:59.490 Joseph McElroy: You know that it’s important for us to totally immerse ourselves in true wilderness experiences on that you know and through media.

00:41:00.510 –> 00:41:02.700 Dale Stewart: Well, absolutely I, you know that that’s.

00:41:03.900 –> 00:41:20.640 Dale Stewart: I think it’s not only healthy for us, but I think it’s necessary to get out there to really just sit and listen, one of the things that I often do when I’m hiking if I do come across people always ask you, what do you see, I always ask them what they heard and that.

00:41:22.560 –> 00:41:37.290 Dale Stewart: kind of throws them off, but you know if you go into any environment and just sit down and close your eyes and listen, you will come away from that environment with a different appreciation, then you have just if you look at it visually.

00:41:38.160 –> 00:41:47.490 Joseph McElroy: wow no, I see that again you stimulated the whole you know that creative.

00:41:48.510 –> 00:41:53.100 Joseph McElroy: the context in my mind is I can’t imagine having a.

00:41:55.080 –> 00:41:56.460 Joseph McElroy: Whatever you call them.

00:41:58.290 –> 00:42:01.980 Joseph McElroy: say a Pole, with the South headphones on it in the middle of the New York City street.

00:42:02.370 –> 00:42:13.410 Joseph McElroy: Where you put it on in to hear the sounds in their mountains, but then you can also have a poll on a hiking trail in the mountains, where that sound comes from and then he listened and put it on and you here in New York city streets.

00:42:15.810 –> 00:42:16.410 Dale Stewart: All the F.

00:42:17.700 –> 00:42:19.740 Dale Stewart: word in downtown New York City so.

00:42:21.120 –> 00:42:23.730 Joseph McElroy: that’s another kind of wilderness there.

00:42:23.730 –> 00:42:33.270 Dale Stewart: Right it is absolutely and takes a different mindset to survive there, but I did want to say, I mean I love using the sound of the soundscape.

00:42:33.690 –> 00:42:43.770 Dale Stewart: Not only in my radio show and podcast but, because it draws people in you know, for a long time, we would pull out ambient sounds and we didn’t want to hear them.

00:42:44.370 –> 00:42:52.020 Dale Stewart: You know if I’m interviewing someone on the street in downtown Asheville I want them, I want the people to hear the cars going by I want them.

00:42:52.380 –> 00:43:00.420 Dale Stewart: To hear the the the the different sounds to the city, because that helps place the listener in the location that you’re actually recording in.

00:43:01.020 –> 00:43:16.710 Joseph McElroy: Why would you come over to the Villa because, let me do a little bit recording there because people talk about how the confluence of recruits there plus there’s a little bit of traffic but it’s muffled by the buildings, this really sensor you know.

00:43:18.030 –> 00:43:27.960 Joseph McElroy: nostalgia, but without being nonmodern and it’s really relaxing but you’re still I’d love to see what that sounds like in a recording so that’s kind of.

00:43:29.070 –> 00:43:35.580 Dale Stewart: this day and age, if, when I show up somewhere mostly leather camera bag, I have my recording bag so.

00:43:36.150 –> 00:43:37.320 Dale Stewart: We can show you that.

00:43:37.620 –> 00:43:46.260 Joseph McElroy: Right alright, so we come back we’ll finish up talking about some of your favorite places that are unique in the mountains, to go do some sound recordings.

00:43:46.620 –> 00:43:47.040 Dale Stewart: All right.

00:46:05.340 –> 00:46:12.900 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklyn McElroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcasts and I guess Dale Stewart and Dale.

00:46:14.310 –> 00:46:23.820 Joseph McElroy: You were talking about sounds were beside the fireflies where there are some unique sounds in the smokies wilderness to have adventures.

00:46:24.720 –> 00:46:28.620 Dale Stewart: Well, you know kind of bend a while I’m looking to record, or what I’m looking for.

00:46:30.360 –> 00:46:50.280 Dale Stewart: For us, this is gators cicada bugs are out now and are coming out after 17 years and that’s something that I absolutely want to on a record, so I seek out locations that might have a specific sound that I’m I’m wanting to to to go after the record.

00:46:51.300 –> 00:46:55.050 Dale Stewart: Of course, I have hours and hours of waterfalls and water sounds and.

00:46:55.110 –> 00:47:06.870 Dale Stewart: and different things, but I’m going over it, and the color boundary and Cherokee and recording the elk sounds you know the bugle of the elk a lot of people don’t realize it doesn’t live here, but we have a.

00:47:07.260 –> 00:47:14.430 Dale Stewart: fairly large jail Kurt now establish in particularly around Cherokee and then and Maggie valley there’s some of the.

00:47:15.000 –> 00:47:26.040 Dale Stewart: TIM to move into that area but they’re out of there, so I love to go there and record them I enjoy going on top of mountains, as we said, you talked about mount nature on some of the others because you get a.

00:47:26.550 –> 00:47:34.500 Dale Stewart: Not only a different environment but a different sound up there it’s a great place to go record, we also love to go in caves.

00:47:35.130 –> 00:47:43.230 Dale Stewart: And there are a number of caves scattered around Western North Carolina that I can go in and record everything from BAP sounds to

00:47:43.740 –> 00:47:53.760 Dale Stewart: The other critters that I might locate in there, so it really almost any place you go, including your backyard, you can get some great sounds.

00:47:54.480 –> 00:48:01.590 Dale Stewart: often have people ask me about gosh I wish I had all that fancy equipment, you have but look if you got if you’ve got a smartphone.

00:48:02.100 –> 00:48:09.810 Dale Stewart: you’ve got a pretty good tool to record with and it’s a great way just to start and it’s a great way I tell hikers.

00:48:10.500 –> 00:48:16.680 Dale Stewart: You know when you’re out there, taking pictures turn on a smartphone and record the same environment that you took the picture in.

00:48:16.950 –> 00:48:24.480 Dale Stewart: And when you get back not only look at the photograph but listen to the sounds that were going on around you at that time so it’s.

00:48:25.110 –> 00:48:38.700 Dale Stewart: something that did you can do almost anywhere to do that, I will say, one of the things that also got me into the sound recording I’ve been called an ethnologist just quite a bit and it’s a title that I.

00:48:39.750 –> 00:48:49.230 Dale Stewart: Take take on and ethnologist studies, different cultures, and societies, and I was mentioning other when I’m recording.

00:48:50.160 –> 00:48:57.480 Dale Stewart: an interview with someone from a specific culture, I also want to get the sounds of that culture if I’m recording in.

00:48:57.780 –> 00:49:06.120 Dale Stewart: South Louisiana shrimp boat I’ve got microphone set up so I can hear the sound of the boat, I want to hear the sound of that clicking sound at the front make.

00:49:06.450 –> 00:49:20.760 Dale Stewart: I want to hear the people on the boat is a is they do their thing at the same time I’m talking to a cajun shrimper about his life and about his culture so the sound is an important thing.

00:49:21.420 –> 00:49:31.020 Joseph McElroy: Where do you do, you have do you have any places that people can hear your sounds is there any is there anything online or their album or something like that.

00:49:31.650 –> 00:49:40.560 Dale Stewart: Well, not too much, I mean I do post sounds from time to time on my social media pages and I’m all you know the facebook’s the Twitter the.

00:49:40.890 –> 00:49:59.280 Dale Stewart: Instagram the Linkedin all that so from time to time I post things on there, I will say this because I get asked more and more and more about them, we are developing a new website, which hopefully will be up in the next 30 days and people will be able to go there and actually download.

00:50:00.540 –> 00:50:08.760 Dale Stewart: Some of the sounds that I have out there, and also, if they want to purchase them they’ll be able to purchase from the library there as well.

00:50:09.180 –> 00:50:19.860 Joseph McElroy: wow why invite you to have we can have an exhibitor a Smoky mountain Heritage Center where we can have some earphones and people can put it on here some of those sounds a.

00:50:20.850 –> 00:50:24.810 Dale Stewart: Little yeah you need to hit you really need headphones to listen to the immersive stuff.

00:50:24.900 –> 00:50:39.420 Dale Stewart: yeah and but otherwise you really don’t and I, you know I invite people to go out there and you know listen I think people forget to listen unless they’re listening to somebody talk on their iPad or their iPhone or something.

00:50:40.890 –> 00:50:52.380 Joseph McElroy: So you’ve worked on a lot of stuff all right you’ve got an A to z podcast you got a radio you’ve been working you’ve worked on documentary films, who works with country artists on their songs or whatever the sounds on their songs and.

00:50:52.380 –> 00:50:57.060 Joseph McElroy: Recording, can you tell us what’s going on, currently, and what you have planned for the future.

00:50:57.630 –> 00:51:05.910 Dale Stewart: Absolutely, one of the exciting things that I’m working on right now I mentioned earlier Horrace Kephart who a lot of people in Western North Carolina certainly know.

00:51:06.420 –> 00:51:18.600 Dale Stewart: One of the fathers of the great smoky mountains and an author, who has written many books, but he has his children were also quite remarkable and one of them Leonard Kephart

00:51:19.620 –> 00:51:34.230 Dale Stewart: was the first American to climb Kilimanjaro in East Africa and Leonard was sent over there actually by the Department US Department of Agriculture to look for seeds and grasses that could be used in the United States and.

00:51:35.610 –> 00:51:40.530 Dale Stewart: I felt that this was a story that needed to be told and I’m friends with Libby get part who.

00:51:41.610 –> 00:51:46.590 Dale Stewart: Leonard is are on call and Horrace’s great grandfather and being able to.

00:51:48.150 –> 00:51:55.080 Dale Stewart: Libby I started talking and I found out he found the journals of Leonard.

00:51:56.190 –> 00:52:04.770 Dale Stewart: And was kind enough to share those with man, I said, this is a story that needs to be tail cold and I love telling stories about people who.

00:52:05.610 –> 00:52:14.460 Dale Stewart: really have kind of been lost to history and let it get part is one of those people if you ask most people who were the first American to climb Kilimanjaro they wouldn’t have a clue.

00:52:14.820 –> 00:52:15.000 What.

00:52:17.220 –> 00:52:25.260 Dale Stewart: we’re working on that and that will be that should be finished by late summer early fall and I’m looking forward to getting it out there and.

00:52:25.590 –> 00:52:35.730 Dale Stewart: you’re it’s a different kind of documentary because it’s purely an auto documentary but we’re life we’re utilizing immersive sounds of East Africa.

00:52:35.760 –> 00:52:36.750 In that documentary.

00:52:38.340 –> 00:52:39.570 Dale Stewart: has ever been done before.

00:52:40.290 –> 00:52:46.680 Joseph McElroy: Well, that sounds fantastic I mean I’ve gotten big into audible lately so I’m looking forward to

00:52:47.880 –> 00:52:53.430 Joseph McElroy: hear that that’s great so and you’re going to finish that Cherokee trails book right.

00:52:54.720 –> 00:52:59.610 Dale Stewart: yeah that’s one of the things that you know what I’m doing here I’m also involved with doing some.

00:52:59.610 –> 00:53:15.480 Dale Stewart: things for the Smithsonian folkways with recording different cultures and different things and right behind finished novel Leonard I’ve already got two or three other projects that I’ve been asked to do and I’m also doing sound on a new.

00:53:17.070 –> 00:53:22.590 Dale Stewart: Teddy Roosevelt documentary that that’ll be coming out probably late next year.

00:53:23.610 –> 00:53:34.260 Dale Stewart: And a lot of the sounds of his expeditions at Africa and South America they’re using me to put those together for them.

00:53:35.130 –> 00:53:38.460 Joseph McElroy: So how do people reach out to follow you.

00:53:39.600 –> 00:53:42.360 Dale Stewart: Well, again, the Facebook.

00:53:43.590 –> 00:54:01.050 Dale Stewart: Page you know if you go to Dale Stewart also you can go in and type in nature’s edge, you can also go to if you really want to know a lot about me go to Google and type in my name Dale Stewart and put explore afterward and you’ll probably learn more about me than you ever wonder, no.

00:54:01.440 –> 00:54:08.700 Joseph McElroy: fabulous well Thank you so much, I understand you might be speaking at the Meadowlark Smoky Heritage Center later this year so.

00:54:08.790 –> 00:54:10.380 Joseph McElroy: A couple of you hear that that sounds.

00:54:10.590 –> 00:54:20.880 Joseph McElroy: Great and I appreciate you for being on the show now, I have to do my get night my shout-outs now, this is the awkward moment where I have to talk about things.

00:54:22.110 –> 00:54:31.590 Joseph McElroy: But you can get to find out more about this podcast at the gatewaytothesmokies. fun and you can subscribe to our newsletter to get updates on upcoming episodes.

00:54:32.910 –> 00:54:43.050 Joseph McElroy: I want you to imagine a place evocative of motor courts of the past, it modern and vibrant with a Chic Appalachian feel a place for adventure and for relaxation.

00:54:43.500 –> 00:54:51.840 Joseph McElroy: Imagine a place where you can fish in a mountain heritage trout stream grill the catch on fire at neat accompanied by fine wine or craft beers.

00:54:52.200 –> 00:55:05.730 Joseph McElroy: Imagine a place for the old-time music and world cultural sounds, there is no other place like the Meadowlark Motel in Maggie valley North Carolina your smoky mountain adventure starts with where you stay.

00:55:07.050 –> 00:55:13.140 Joseph McElroy: smokiesadventure.com and smokies plural adventure singular.com.

00:55:13.620 –> 00:55:26.130 Joseph McElroy: infinite information and listings about the smokies it’s got hiking wedding venues books trail maps resources to experience the smokies, the emphasis is on outdoor recreation.

00:55:26.520 –> 00:55:41.910 Joseph McElroy: outdoor life events like weddings and adventures, along with providing information on lodging family entertainment events conventions honeymoons and more is the goal of this site is to become the leading information on a portal on the smoky mountains.

00:55:43.980 –> 00:55:57.090 Joseph McElroy: I remind you that next week, we are going to have Lisa McBride owner of NYC farm to table and online local mark food market manager Jackson.

00:55:57.360 –> 00:56:11.040 Joseph McElroy: county farmers market and founder of from the ground up a local food collaborative and Silva calorie that should be a very interesting discussion on the farm to table food in the mountains of North Carolina smoky mountains area.

00:56:12.990 –> 00:56:20.160 Joseph McElroy: You could catch this podcast always I forgot to mention on Facebook.coms/ gatewaytothesmokiespodcast where you can see the zoom feed live.

00:56:20.430 –> 00:56:31.230 Joseph McElroy: Every week on Tuesdays from six to seven and I remind you that we’re on the talkradio.NYC network, where you can see lots of great podcasts.

00:56:31.860 –> 00:56:48.930 Joseph McElroy: Every day, live the one after this is about New York, so you can go from the mountains of North Carolina to the urban landscapes of New York City and find out about the history and culture here, so thank you for joining me see you next week on the gateway to the smokies podcast.

In this episode, our special guest is Leslie Hartley, she enjoyed more than 10 years in professional marketing and communications leadership roles, including six years serving as the online content manager/editor at Biltmore. Leslie has spent most of her career in the tourism and non-profit fields in Western North Carolina.

She is the communications manager at Blue Ridge National Heritage Area, an Asheville-based non-profit that serves as a steward of Western North Carolina’s natural and cultural treasures.

‍

Tune in for this fun conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.

To start today’s episode off, Joseph introduces the topic of the episode, the Blue Ridge National Heritage Area. He shares some exciting news, the Great Smoky Mountains National Park was once again the most visited national park in 2020. The Great Smoky Mountains Association is creating a podcast discussing the intersection between black history and Appalachian music. Joseph goes on to discuss more of the contents of this upcoming podcast such as guests and topics. Joseph introduces today’s guest, Leslie Hart, the communications manager at the Blue Ridge National Heritage Area. Leslie grew up in North Carolina, moving around during and post-college, but making her way back home afterward. She started her career in radio, getting her first job in radio during college. At one point she even worked at a radio station back in Asheville. Leslie talks a little about her time working at Biltmore. She talks about working in Kanuga when the remake of dirty dancing was shot there. Leslie discusses how she came to work for the Blue Ridge National Heritage Area, citing her love of their mission, preserving the area. Their non-profit helps to take care of the Western North Carolina region. The foundation is partially funded by the federal government, but they also match every dollar donated through grants and partnerships.

Coming back from the break Joseph asks the question of why the Blue Ridge National Heritage Area exists. On top of its national beauty, this area has its own cultures which are preserved by the foundation Leslie works with. Much of this distinction comes from the fact that this area is the ancestral home of the Cherokee. Through its grants program, the Blue Ridge National Heritage Area helps fund projects in the area. Leslie provides examples of some of these projects. In addition to funding local projects, they host cultural programs. Joseph talks about a project the GSMA is working on and asks if it's the kind of thing Leslie’s organization would take on. The two discuss some of the cultural programs the Blue Ridge National Heritage Area puts on. There are also lots of farmers' markets all throughout the area. The two talk a little about a shared love of theirs, beekeeping. Leslie talks about some of the itineraries they make, such as the blue ridge craft trails, that lead visitors to artists in the region. Other itineraries include experiences leading to things such as wineries and craft beers. In addition to having pre-made itineraries, their website has an itinerary builder. The pre-made itineraries start with conversations with the community, helping to find artists to be included. After doing research, site visits are done.

Next, the two move on to music trails. These trails lead visitors to live music in the mountains. Leslie talks about foundations that have supported the craft trails. Leslie talks more about the mission of these trails, helping to connect with these artists and helping the communities connect with the artists. She moves on to discuss the challenges they faced in working on this project during the pandemic but making it on zoom. She talks about meeting the artists, on their website and gives details on the artists, noting details such as whether their hours are open or if you need an appointment to visit. She talks a little more in-depth about the variety of art that can be found on these trails. Not only are the trails in the bigger towns such as Asheville, but they are in smaller towns too. She talks about business getting involved in these trails, reaching out to her specifically. Joseph discusses the art at the Meadowlark Motel.

Coming into the last segment, Joseph asks how the Blue Ridge National Heritage Area promotes the Smokies. On their website, they promote the park, with some of the itineraries leading visitors through the park. Moving on, she discusses the future of the Blue Ridge National Heritage Area. Much of the near future pertains to finishing the craft trails project. Leslie shouts out supporters of the foundation. To end the episode, Joseph talks about some of the projects he is working on.

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00:00:27.120 –> 00:00:32.160 Joseph McElroy: howdy thanks for joining us on this week’s episode of gateway to the smokies.

00:00:33.210 –> 00:00:41.010 Joseph McElroy: This podcast is about America’s most visited National Park, the great smoky mountains national park, and surrounding towns.

00:00:41.490 –> 00:00:50.430 Joseph McElroy: This area is filled with ancient natural beauty a deep storied in history and rich mountain culture that we explore weekly episodes.

00:00:50.940 –> 00:01:03.990 Joseph McElroy: I am Joseph Franklin McElroy a man of the world, but also with deep roots in these mountains my family is living the great smokies for over 200 years my business is in travel, but my heart is in culture.

00:01:04.800 –> 00:01:11.730 Joseph McElroy: today’s episode we’re going to learn about the blue Ridge national heritage area and the blue Ridge craft trails.

00:01:12.360 –> 00:01:35.760 Joseph McElroy: But first little news and in my intro I’m always mentioning that it’s the most visited National Park well in 2020 it is again the great smoky mountain National Park, is the most visited National Park in the nation with over 12.1 million visits and that’s quadruple.

00:01:37.110 –> 00:01:43.080 Joseph McElroy: The number of visits in the second place Yellowstone National Park that had 3.8 million visitors.

00:01:43.620 –> 00:01:59.250 Joseph McElroy: however there’s another National Park park service unit in the smoky mountain area that is the number one of all the national park service units it’s not a national park, but is part of the national park service.

00:02:00.630 –> 00:02:01.350 Joseph McElroy: Operating.

00:02:02.490 –> 00:02:15.390 Joseph McElroy: domain and that is the Blue Ridge Parkway and it’s number one it recorded 14.1 million visits, making it the most popular National Park service unit.

00:02:17.250 –> 00:02:25.530 Joseph McElroy: You know the smokies superintendent is very proud of these accomplishments and we had a couple of bad months there, but that it boom it really exploded.

00:02:26.460 –> 00:02:43.110 Joseph McElroy: big concerns we got to work at worry about is that people you know, are not necessarily taking care when their parking and things like that it’s been a little bit more full of litter and damage roadside so people out there yeah pay attention to parking and do it in a responsible manner.

00:02:45.300 –> 00:02:58.080 Joseph McElroy: So pretty proud of that also I want to talk about but there’s a great smoky mountains association has a new podcast exclusive series which I think is pretty society.

00:02:58.500 –> 00:03:10.680 Joseph McElroy: they’re going to explore black Appalachian music it’s a six-part podcast miniseries exploring the intersection of black history and Southern Appalachian music.

00:03:12.000 –> 00:03:20.670 Joseph McElroy: The first one is going to be called CPA cons I think it’s already launched exploring black Appalachian music is hosted by Dr. William Turner.

00:03:20.970 –> 00:03:33.750 Joseph McElroy: and told Ted Olson surveying the many black roots and branches of southern Appalachian music by sharing research listening to recordings of interviewing contemporary black musicians and experts in music history.

00:03:34.890 –> 00:03:35.190 Joseph McElroy:

00:03:36.330 –> 00:03:44.160 Joseph McElroy: It is available it’s now it’s called smoky mountain air and it’s on GSMA’s existing podcast.

00:03:45.330 –> 00:03:56.550 Joseph McElroy: And it’s actually premiered just about the beginning of April, and it will it’ll be focused on the neglected emphasis contributions to their country and blues.

00:03:56.910 –> 00:04:05.070 Joseph McElroy: And I’ll have some featured guests include loyal Jones Jane Liga and sparky record and then the remaining five episodes are released through.

00:04:06.990 –> 00:04:19.110 Joseph McElroy: And will cover topics such as the complex history of black music in East Tennessee black sacred music black women musician and the diverse landscape of music communities in southern Appalachian.

00:04:19.740 –> 00:04:26.550 Joseph McElroy: And one of our early podcasts on the gateway to the smokies podcasts we talked about various contributions to.

00:04:27.780 –> 00:04:45.720 Joseph McElroy: Music in the smokies and we talked about West African contribution, especially with the banjo which came from West Africa and how that introduced a sort of a rhythm to the music that you know, made it, you know much more popular.

00:04:47.490 –> 00:04:55.020 Joseph McElroy: So anyway I’m pretty happy about that and be sure to listen to it like a great podcast premiering in the area.

00:04:56.160 –> 00:05:05.130 Joseph McElroy: So our guest today is Leslie Hartly she is the Communications Manager of the Blue Ridge National Heritage Area based in Ashville.

00:05:05.820 –> 00:05:11.460 Joseph McElroy: She has spent most of her career in tourism and nonprofit fields in Western North Carolina.

00:05:11.880 –> 00:05:20.760 Joseph McElroy: She is enjoying more than 10 years and professional marketing and communications leadership roles, she is the Communications Manager at the Blue Ridge National.

00:05:21.300 –> 00:05:33.450 Joseph McElroy: Heritage area, which is an actual-based nonprofit that serves as a steward of Western North Carolina’s natural and cultural treasures so hi Leslie so how are you doing.

00:05:35.010 –> 00:05:36.990 Leslie Hartley: How are you doing good to see you.

00:05:37.140 –> 00:05:41.580 Joseph McElroy: it’s good to see you too, so did you grow up in Western North Carolina.

00:05:42.180 –> 00:05:52.530 Leslie Hartley: You know, actually, I was born in western North Carolina in Hickory which is at least used to be known as the furniture capital of the world and.

00:05:53.640 –> 00:05:59.280 Leslie Hartley: I did grow up in Western North Carolina and a black town right outside of Asheville.

00:05:59.700 –> 00:06:02.880 Joseph McElroy: So then, you went all the way to Minnesota three masters.

00:06:03.810 –> 00:06:08.100 Leslie Hartley: that’s true scholarships can be a strong pole.

00:06:08.310 –> 00:06:10.860 Leslie Hartley: And also wanted to experience a completely different.

00:06:11.640 –> 00:06:23.550 Leslie Hartley: Environment and I sure did so I got to travel around some and then I was ready to call North Carolina home again I missed the green trees and.

00:06:25.380 –> 00:06:29.880 Leslie Hartley: just the beauty of Western North Carolina called me home.

00:06:30.420 –> 00:06:34.620 Joseph McElroy: So you ended up working in radio for a little while when you came back right.

00:06:35.100 –> 00:06:46.740 Leslie Hartley: I did actually I started in radio public radio in College as an internship and then moved on to have a job in that and was fortunate enough to work at.

00:06:48.210 –> 00:06:54.900 Leslie Hartley: A WCUS which now is blue Ridge public radio in Asheville for a few years, as their morning edition host.

00:06:55.620 –> 00:06:59.460 Joseph McElroy: Was that a news sort of a program or was it.

00:07:00.090 –> 00:07:12.150 Leslie Hartley: that’s their morning edition is the national news for public radio and I handled the local hosting of that yeah that’s great.

00:07:12.360 –> 00:07:16.320 Joseph McElroy: cool I think I listened to that station that they have some music programs on there right also.

00:07:16.710 –> 00:07:17.340 Leslie Hartley: They do.

00:07:17.610 –> 00:07:19.350 Joseph McElroy: I think I think there’s an article.

00:07:19.350 –> 00:07:19.680 Leslie Hartley: That.

00:07:19.980 –> 00:07:29.430 Joseph McElroy: They had some cool music there, I think I liked the music that in western North Carolina public station there are a couple of different ones, and now they are really.

00:07:30.510 –> 00:07:32.100 Joseph McElroy: eclectic I thought yeah.

00:07:32.430 –> 00:07:38.430 Joseph McElroy: Yes, so, then you were built more states that must be a challenging job you were there, six years?

00:07:39.300 –> 00:07:50.040 Leslie Hartley: um I love that job was it was a really good experience um yeah I was there for six years, I felt I felt really fortunate to be a part of the marketing team there and.

00:07:51.360 –> 00:08:00.510 Leslie Hartley: I focused on online content, which was a new term back then now everyone, everyone is wanting content.

00:08:00.900 –> 00:08:01.230 Because.

00:08:02.790 –> 00:08:04.800 Leslie Hartley: content is king that’s right.

00:08:04.980 –> 00:08:12.180 Joseph McElroy: I wrote, I wrote another podcast called wise content in my line is content is king, but why is content rules, the world.

00:08:15.510 –> 00:08:27.180 Joseph McElroy: yeah well Bill Moore does a pretty good job I guess you would help set all that up and they really you know saturate the Internet with good content about what they do my thing.

00:08:27.810 –> 00:08:35.190 Leslie Hartley: Right yeah they’re a top-notch group there’s no doubt about it, and they have an excellent mission to really.

00:08:36.450 –> 00:08:43.560 Leslie Hartley: protect that place of it’s still the largest America’s largest home.

00:08:44.760 –> 00:08:47.070 Leslie Hartley: So it’s a beautiful place if you haven’t been there.

00:08:47.400 –> 00:08:53.670 Joseph McElroy: Oh I’ve been there, love the place, and then yeah they have all those gardens and have noticed the most visited winery in the world.

00:08:53.970 –> 00:08:54.660 Yes.

00:08:55.860 –> 00:08:56.250 Joseph McElroy: Right.

00:08:58.350 –> 00:09:04.830 Joseph McElroy: So, then, I saw this is an interesting thing you are working, I think, for connoting Cayuga conferences.

00:09:06.600 –> 00:09:11.160 Joseph McElroy: And when they came and rebuild dirty dancing there was that fun.

00:09:12.360 –> 00:09:28.920 Leslie Hartley: that’s true I’m Jennifer Lopez, and others were in the remake of dirty dancing and iconic film and canoe that has these wonderful little cottages that were.

00:09:29.700 –> 00:09:45.870 Leslie Hartley: designed and built in the early 1900s and has a lake it was just the perfect setting to recreate the movie if you’re familiar with the movie it’s set in a New York, I want to say the Catskills maybe.

00:09:47.550 –> 00:09:48.930 Leslie Hartley: yeah and.

00:09:49.470 –> 00:09:57.210 Leslie Hartley: Anyway, it was interesting to have the full crew, the whole place was basically taken.

00:09:57.540 –> 00:10:03.240 Leslie Hartley: For by the film crew and everyone was very gracious it was a good experience.

00:10:03.600 –> 00:10:16.500 Joseph McElroy: Well, Western North Carolina is a great as a great place for doing a lot of films, they do a lot of fields out there, so that’s not surprised I think they actually did the original film at like lower area.

00:10:16.890 –> 00:10:32.730 Leslie Hartley: Some parts of it were def yeah that’s right you’re exactly right the thing that the very well known and often imitated lift seen in the lake I believe was filmed in.

00:10:34.020 –> 00:10:34.890 Leslie Hartley: In lake lower.

00:10:35.220 –> 00:10:40.380 Joseph McElroy: yeah cool so how did you end up at the Blue Ridge National Heritage Area?

00:10:41.130 –> 00:10:49.500 Leslie Hartley: Well um I really love their mission of wanting to protect and preserve this region that I love.

00:10:50.580 –> 00:11:03.780 Leslie Hartley: And the natural resources, the cultural treasures are important to them, and I really loved the idea of being a part of a nonprofit that had a passionate mission and something that I believed in.

00:11:04.800 –> 00:11:13.740 Leslie Hartley: So I joined them on a contract basis, a few years ago and I’ve been in this role for about two years and.

00:11:13.770 –> 00:11:18.210 Joseph McElroy: Can you tell us tell the listeners, what is the Blue Ridge National Heritage Area.

00:11:18.720 –> 00:11:28.890 Leslie Hartley: yeah that’s a great question um about 17 years ago the Western North Carolina region was designated a place of.

00:11:29.880 –> 00:11:44.850 Leslie Hartley: National significance or region of national significance because of the distinct character, culture, and the natural beauty, that you can only find the mountains and foothills of North Carolina and so that’s.

00:11:46.410 –> 00:11:57.480 Leslie Hartley: Our nonprofit organization, the Blue Ridge national heritage area partnership we take help take care of Western North Carolina this region.

00:11:57.690 –> 00:11:59.520 Joseph McElroy: hmm and that was.

00:12:00.540 –> 00:12:03.960 Joseph McElroy: That was by the Congress yeah that was at the national level right.

00:12:04.440 –> 00:12:07.800 Leslie Hartley: that’s correct yeah at the federal level.

00:12:08.640 –> 00:12:13.440 Joseph McElroy: And that is, it is significant funding that you get every year from the United government.

00:12:14.880 –> 00:12:18.570 Leslie Hartley: We are very grateful to receive

00:12:20.190 –> 00:12:24.000 Leslie Hartley: the foundation of funds from the Federal Government and

00:12:25.200 –> 00:12:33.630 Leslie Hartley: it is how we are funded partially we but I’ll tell you that every dollar we receive we

00:12:36.300 –> 00:12:47.250 Leslie Hartley: have to match one to one but we often go to the one at the very least in our matching and we do that through grants and partnerships.

00:12:48.090 –> 00:12:56.520 Joseph McElroy: Alright cool well when we come back, I want to talk more about why it exists and what makes it the state all right.

00:12:56.850 –> 00:12:58.410 Leslie Hartley: Okay sounds good, thank you.

00:15:58.290 –> 00:16:12.450 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklyn McElroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcasts and My guest Leslie Hartly so Leslie so we’re talking about the Blue Ridge National Heritage Area and it’s 25.

00:16:13.050 –> 00:16:22.140 Joseph McElroy: counties in Western North Carolina, why does it exist in that form, why those 25 characters counties, why was it created.

00:16:23.940 –> 00:16:26.640 Leslie Hartley: yeah that’s a great question um.

00:16:27.960 –> 00:16:35.910 Leslie Hartley: we’re talking about the mountains in the foothills that you find in the western part of North Carolina and it was deemed.

00:16:36.240 –> 00:16:48.600 Leslie Hartley: As it is an area that’s distinct with natural beauty cultural traditions that you only find in this area, and those are living traditions that have been passed on from generation to generation.

00:16:49.050 –> 00:17:00.450 Leslie Hartley: And our nonprofit the Blue Ridge National Heritage Area partnership serves as the steward of that footprint, we have the mission of.

00:17:02.820 –> 00:17:10.470 Leslie Hartley: protecting, preserving, and thoughtfully promoting the natural and cultural resources here in our region.

00:17:11.070 –> 00:17:21.240 Leslie Hartley: um you know, and you can ask you know why is it distinct and when you think about it, Joseph it’s we’ve got the highest mountain East of the Mississippi with Mount Mitchell.

00:17:21.810 –> 00:17:34.020 Leslie Hartley: The oldest river in North America, with the new river, you had mentioned at the top of your show the most visited national parklands in the country with the great smokies and now the Blue Ridge parkway.

00:17:36.390 –> 00:17:47.850 Leslie Hartley: itself getting over 14 million visitors last year, and also importantly, where the ancestral home of the Cherokee and Western North Carolina.

00:17:48.540 –> 00:17:52.290 Joseph McElroy: So that’s what I guess that might make the difference, I was trying to figure out why.

00:17:52.770 –> 00:18:06.210 Joseph McElroy: it’s not also cleaning say East Tennessee some counties there as well as some counties in Virginia, but I guess the Cherokee cultural tradition is also and critically important to make a distinct right.

00:18:07.860 –> 00:18:08.370 Leslie Hartley: True.

00:18:08.760 –> 00:18:10.230 Leslie Hartley: yeah yeah.

00:18:10.590 –> 00:18:15.360 Joseph McElroy: Alright cool um So what do you do to serve the Western North Carolina.

00:18:16.440 –> 00:18:18.000 Leslie Hartley: Well, we um.

00:18:19.830 –> 00:18:25.770 Leslie Hartley: We do this, we serve as a steward through, we have a grants program where we support.

00:18:26.820 –> 00:18:34.200 Leslie Hartley: organizations in our region with projects that will help further the traditions or.

00:18:36.510 –> 00:18:40.110 Leslie Hartley: Not just the traditions but also may enhance.

00:18:41.520 –> 00:18:52.890 Leslie Hartley: The cultural assets as well, I mean, excuse me, the Ashville natural assets as well say for exists example we just provided a grant to help.

00:18:54.480 –> 00:19:08.850 Leslie Hartley: The Cherokee in the quality boundary create an aviary for eagles for injured eagles and we have provided that grant for them to do the research to make that happen.

00:19:10.050 –> 00:19:25.680 Leslie Hartley: Of course, the eagle feathers would be used ceremonially and the eagles will be taken care of now it’ll be the first one, on the whole, east coast that exists that kind of gives you an idea of one of the things we’ve done, we also.

00:19:26.730 –> 00:19:31.350 Leslie Hartley: Recently, helped fund the Nina Simone.

00:19:34.530 –> 00:19:50.790 Leslie Hartley: park in Tryon North Carolina, which is the side of where she grew up a good part of her where she grew up was right here in Western North Carolina and Nina Simone, of course, being the iconic jazz singer jazz and blues singer.

00:19:52.470 –> 00:19:55.890 Leslie Hartley: And um anyway sorry.

00:19:57.330 –> 00:19:57.630 Leslie Hartley: yeah.

00:19:57.660 –> 00:19:58.410 Joseph McElroy: yeah yeah.

00:19:58.770 –> 00:20:02.730 Leslie Hartley: samples that are trying to give you a sense of the flavor where we’re coming from.

00:20:03.690 –> 00:20:09.240 Leslie Hartley: We do this grants program we also have the training and we have cultural programming as well.

00:20:10.320 –> 00:20:17.940 Joseph McElroy: of us, you know you said, we often think is I didn’t even discover that you know, I was in one of.

00:20:19.200 –> 00:20:25.470 Joseph McElroy: One of my early projects was I worked with Nina Simone, young daughter, to create.

00:20:26.070 –> 00:20:27.450 Joseph McElroy: Their website.

00:20:27.450 –> 00:20:29.850 Joseph McElroy: For the Nina Simone foundation, the first website.

00:20:31.110 –> 00:20:31.530 Joseph McElroy: So.

00:20:32.910 –> 00:20:39.450 Joseph McElroy: yeah so you caught me off guard because I missed that little tidbit of trivia that been great to know.

00:20:40.560 –> 00:20:47.880 Joseph McElroy: So, but I knew that there was some relevance to this area for Nina Simone I love Nina Simone that’s fantastic.

00:20:49.740 –> 00:21:00.570 Joseph McElroy: And the eagle you know the thing is pretty good, you know that I just had Frances Figart here on from the great smoky mountains, associations and they’re trying to get.

00:21:01.590 –> 00:21:14.310 Joseph McElroy: Yes, you know the talking about the issues here talking about books, but the big ones are about you know the problem with the interstates and not having put bridges for animals to go across.

00:21:14.790 –> 00:21:21.390 Joseph McElroy: Right is that something that you guys might also get involved with I mean I’m not asking for promise anything

00:21:21.390 –> 00:21:39.120 Leslie Hartley: Because you do not know yeah I can’t promise that um you know that sounds like a Department of Transportation potential project but I’m not sure we just haven’t been I’m familiar with what you’re talking about and to me personally, they sound like a great idea.

00:21:39.690 –> 00:21:42.720 Leslie Hartley: And I think they’re doing that in California now right.

00:21:43.470 –> 00:21:45.570 Joseph McElroy: I that I don’t know.

00:21:45.870 –> 00:21:46.350 Joseph McElroy: yeah.

00:21:47.190 –> 00:22:00.900 Leslie Hartley: There is one, at least in California, that I saw the other day on the news but I’m sorry sounds like a great idea might be something that we would be interested in learning more about.

00:22:02.340 –> 00:22:19.830 Joseph McElroy: It so he said he said I just looking at the cultural programs you offer and they look pretty extensive the Cherokee history and heritage Appalachian craft heritage traditional music heritage historic North Carolina agricultural here’s, what do you guys do with that?

00:22:21.030 –> 00:22:30.030 Leslie Hartley: Well, we really help spread the word about the agricultural traditions, through our website at blueridgeheritage.com

00:22:31.020 –> 00:22:43.230 Leslie Hartley: you know we have a rich obviously a rich agricultural heritage here and that continues today not only with what you would think of as traditional farming, but we have.

00:22:44.880 –> 00:22:49.170 Leslie Hartley: An ever-growing amount of farmer’s markets in the local towns.

00:22:51.720 –> 00:22:51.930 Joseph McElroy: fee.

00:22:52.080 –> 00:22:55.050 Leslie Hartley: waivers wineries now it’s expanded.

00:22:55.080 –> 00:22:55.560 Leslie Hartley: Even.

00:22:55.620 –> 00:23:06.120 Leslie Hartley: We have a vehicle, we have two viticulture areas in western North Carolina in the Henderson County area and then up in the Yakima Valley area as well wow.

00:23:06.330 –> 00:23:14.970 Joseph McElroy: You know, ways well, what has the Waynesville in the county that I have my business in his garden what the one that historic farmers markets.

00:23:15.480 –> 00:23:22.080 Joseph McElroy: And yes, it’s kind of cute and you know, I was a beekeeper back and they said when seeing your Beekeeper

00:23:22.740 –> 00:23:26.100 Leslie Hartley: Oh Okay, yes that’s great yeah this.

00:23:27.660 –> 00:23:44.040 Leslie Hartley: I think it’s very much alive and well, and you see younger people taking that on and finding new ways to connect with the potential market or potential customers through the farmer’s markets and through the offering.

00:23:45.720 –> 00:23:50.940 Leslie Hartley: CSA is or where you can purchase your vegetables.

00:23:51.870 –> 00:23:53.340 Leslie Hartley: So yeah.

00:23:53.700 –> 00:23:55.860 Joseph McElroy: So I had some questions about.

00:23:57.000 –> 00:24:00.870 Joseph McElroy: You know, really interesting you offer extensive services online.

00:24:01.350 –> 00:24:15.660 Joseph McElroy: And it seems really ambitious and I just wanted to you know little bit more about that so, for example, you guys have these wonderful itineraries, how do you get those built and you accept them from partners and what what What do you know.

00:24:16.140 –> 00:24:26.040 Leslie Hartley: Well, for example, we have the Blue Ridge craft trails that we’re developing and I’d love to talk about that and talk about those itineraries and how we create them.

00:24:27.000 –> 00:24:27.330 Joseph McElroy: First.

00:24:27.510 –> 00:24:40.770 Leslie Hartley: The blue Ridge craft trails is a new initiative of ours, where we’re going through the North Carolina mountains and foothills and curating kind of a drivable trail that you can follow.

00:24:41.850 –> 00:24:56.490 Leslie Hartley: to discover these artists and studios artists galleries and studios and those 25 counties and we are creating itineraries we have a team that literally goes out visits.

00:24:57.150 –> 00:25:14.910 Leslie Hartley: these sites take in what’s going on in that region or what’s going on in that county and put together a suggested itinerary to not only visit with the artists but also what’s going on with the outdoor recreation.

00:25:16.140 –> 00:25:26.430 Leslie Hartley: What kind of small-town experience can you have to connect with the community whether that’s the craft beer, as I mentioned the wineries and distilleries that we have.

00:25:27.570 –> 00:25:32.280 Leslie Hartley: So we try and give you a 360 experience at least an option

00:25:33.780 –> 00:25:43.920 Leslie Hartley: to have a wonderful time it’s a great idea to a great time to get outside and kind of explore and have one on one experiences with artists.

00:25:44.010 –> 00:25:50.340 Joseph McElroy: So is that those itinerary is going to be available separately or they part of the itinerary isn’t already offered.

00:25:51.660 –> 00:25:52.320 Leslie Hartley: They are.

00:25:53.370 –> 00:26:03.270 Leslie Hartley: You can find those blue Ridge craft trails itineraries at blueridgecrafttrails.com, as well as maps and artists profiles.

00:26:04.740 –> 00:26:12.660 Leslie Hartley: But we have that’s a really good question if you go to the website you’ll see that we have suggested itineraries.

00:26:13.380 –> 00:26:29.250 Leslie Hartley: But then, Joseph we also have this itinerary builder where you can actually choose the different towns, the different types of artists, you want to visit and put it all together, we have a tool that helps put together your own customized itinerary.

00:26:29.640 –> 00:26:30.750 Joseph McElroy: Well that’s kind of cool.

00:26:30.870 –> 00:26:31.560 Leslie Hartley: It is.

00:26:32.310 –> 00:26:45.420 Joseph McElroy: yeah but again that’s you know that’s ambitious, so I mean you do, you get do you get partners and all the areas to help you or do you go out and do that you get all those little information yourself how do you find the artists.

00:26:46.470 –> 00:26:57.870 Leslie Hartley: Oh OK that’s a great question um we start with having Community input sessions and we go to the community leaders, the artist’s arts council’s of that area.

00:26:58.770 –> 00:27:13.290 Leslie Hartley: and ask for recommendations and then we have a team that’s focused right now on pulling together the blue Ridge craft drills itineraries and profiles, but and also curating that.

00:27:15.300 –> 00:27:17.250 Leslie Hartley: That trail down to.

00:27:19.260 –> 00:27:27.570 Leslie Hartley: We did that, through our own research we do research and then we do site visits and those who.

00:27:28.140 –> 00:27:45.510 Leslie Hartley: bubble up to to the top through that process or then selected to be on the trails so we, that is, we do that through partnerships in the communities as well as, then the boots on the ground is our own team.

00:27:45.780 –> 00:27:57.840 Joseph McElroy: All right, well cool, and then we come back we’ll talk more about this craft trails and I’m also hit a little bit on some music trails and some other cool stuff so we’ll talk about that later come back.

00:27:58.650 –> 00:27:59.430 Leslie Hartley: sounds good.

00:30:49.110 –> 00:30:59.760 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklyn McElroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcasts with my guest Leslie Hartley hey Leslie so

00:31:00.420 –> 00:31:14.400 Joseph McElroy: we’re talking about Mountain Blue Ridge trails and we were specifically talking about the craft trail, but you had a heritage partnership had a music trail before that right.

00:31:15.090 –> 00:31:23.550 Leslie Hartley: yeah we still have a very lively music trail at Blueridgemusicnc.com and really that’s a.

00:31:25.680 –> 00:31:40.620 Leslie Hartley: it’s still very much alive at celebrating so traditional music bluegrass blues and Gospel you can find in North Carolina has mountains and foothills and I tell you, Joseph music is back live music is back our.

00:31:41.070 –> 00:31:42.270 Leslie Hartley: Yes, yeah.

00:31:43.380 –> 00:32:04.440 Leslie Hartley: Our website, we really try our best to keep up with all the live music offerings in Western North Carolina and keep that up and updated so you can find from the bluff mountain festival that’s coming up to the Earl Scruggs Center picking on the square and of course merle fest.

00:32:05.580 –> 00:32:09.330 Leslie Hartley: Looking forward to that coming back in September.

00:32:09.630 –> 00:32:20.760 Joseph McElroy: I saw that I just saw online balsam range, which had one I had TIM CERT here on the show I just announced they’re gonna be part of that, so it looks pretty exciting.

00:32:20.820 –> 00:32:22.620 Leslie Hartley: yeah saw that today too.

00:32:22.710 –> 00:32:25.860 Leslie Hartley: yeah yeah it should be really good hoping to get tickets.

00:32:26.280 –> 00:32:37.050 Joseph McElroy: Oh, I hope so too, so people can go to that site you mentioned to actually find music events and festivals, and individual artists that you visit as well right.

00:32:37.290 –> 00:32:41.760 Leslie Hartley: that’s right blueridgemusicnc.com.

00:32:41.910 –> 00:32:46.950 Joseph McElroy: cool So what are the blue Ridge craft trails mirrored after that.

00:32:47.730 –> 00:32:49.620 Leslie Hartley: Well, I think i’m.

00:32:51.330 –> 00:33:01.980 Leslie Hartley: In a way, in that we’ve had the experience of putting together a trail that focuses on the cultural heritage of our region.

00:33:02.850 –> 00:33:13.140 Leslie Hartley: Otherwise it’s been a new experience we actually had we’ve been fortunate to have the Appalachian regional commission.

00:33:13.590 –> 00:33:23.520 Leslie Hartley: And the Cherokee preservation foundation, just to mention a few come on board and support this effort we’re very appreciative to that and.

00:33:24.270 –> 00:33:29.430 Leslie Hartley: The blue Ridge craft trails is it’s a new initiative and we.

00:33:30.390 –> 00:33:48.210 Leslie Hartley: were getting close to completing the development of the project, you can certainly find over 150 artists right now on the website, as well as suggested itineraries of blueridgecrafttrails.com but we know just that’s a lot of ground to cover 25 counties.

00:33:48.750 –> 00:33:50.040 Leslie Hartley: Mountains you’ve got.

00:33:50.340 –> 00:33:58.740 Leslie Hartley: you’ve got mountains and valleys and rivers and it’s a lot of trails to cover but it’s a wonderful job to have.

00:33:58.950 –> 00:34:08.880 Joseph McElroy: Well there’s a lot of crafts that have been going on in the Blue Ridge area for ya for centuries now and so there’s a lot of history there to cover I.

00:34:09.090 –> 00:34:16.620 Joseph McElroy: mean I read a quote by Angie Chandler I think the Executive Director of the Blue Ridge.

00:34:17.550 –> 00:34:19.560 Joseph McElroy: National Heritage and she said, our goal is to.

00:34:19.560 –> 00:34:27.690 Joseph McElroy: increase income for traditional and contemporary artisans enhance culture tourism and improve local economies.

00:34:27.990 –> 00:34:40.260 Joseph McElroy: We are building on Western North Carolina’s history is a leading Center for craft production and education, the United States, I think this was early in your announcement is that still generally the purpose on the intent.

00:34:40.890 –> 00:34:41.880 Absolutely.

00:34:43.110 –> 00:34:46.020 Leslie Hartley: That is definitely it, we are looking to bring.

00:34:47.610 –> 00:34:58.980 Leslie Hartley: folks who are interested in craft to the actual makers and spend time with them and learn what inspires them what’s the history of what they’re doing and.

00:35:00.150 –> 00:35:10.080 Leslie Hartley: Just connect with these artists connect with the community that they’re in and have a one on one with them and really a one of a kind.

00:35:10.530 –> 00:35:18.300 Leslie Hartley: Experience where you can bring home a piece that’s been it’s one of a kind to say again, the piece of art that.

00:35:18.720 –> 00:35:36.390 Leslie Hartley: You can get directly from the maker and we’re seeing this have to make a difference, already one of the first two counties to the first two counties that we completed this project in was clay in Cherokee counties out in the Far West region.

00:35:37.560 –> 00:35:45.540 Leslie Hartley: And we have gotten positive feedback we had an exhibit and one of the visits to North Carolina.

00:35:46.200 –> 00:36:00.660 Leslie Hartley: Excuse me, one of the North Carolina visit visitor centers and an exhibit on the Blue Ridge craft trails and people actually sought out some of the artists who were exhibited from seeing it in the Visitor Center and told them so when they went out there.

00:36:01.020 –> 00:36:07.080 Joseph McElroy: Oh really that’s fabulous to have some success stories, people are getting great reviews back.

00:36:07.470 –> 00:36:31.320 Leslie Hartley: yeah exactly, even with the challenge of the past year with the covered precautions um we’re still seeing we’ve still gone out there very safely and through zoom often continue to develop this trail, but we didn’t give up, and we are persevering and making.

00:36:32.820 –> 00:36:38.550 Leslie Hartley: Making quite a dent in the project like I said we already have about 150 artists on the trail.

00:36:39.270 –> 00:36:39.780 wow.

00:36:42.840 –> 00:36:55.110 Joseph McElroy: Do you how somebody can go to the website and get an itinerary travel then go travel to like craftsmen, is that they can actually have visited him to call ahead or what are they, what are the what do they do.

00:36:55.590 –> 00:37:05.670 Leslie Hartley: yeah I’m going to blueridgecrafttrails.com, we have some suggested itineraries or you can build your own itinerary with the itinerary tool that we have.

00:37:06.210 –> 00:37:23.520 Leslie Hartley: And you can find Google maps on our website, we have a Google map for each one of the artists, if you want to go visit them as far as you know, some of the artists who are in their own home studio they do like folks to come by appointment.

00:37:24.390 –> 00:37:26.220 Joseph McElroy: And then some you have held.

00:37:26.220 –> 00:37:36.420 Leslie Hartley: Regular hours, but we note that on each one of the profiles that we have on the website so you won’t be caught surprised you’ll be able to plan your trip.

00:37:37.140 –> 00:37:44.610 Joseph McElroy: And can people find the do you also make suggestions on like places to eat places to stay things to do.

00:37:45.330 –> 00:37:51.510 Leslie Hartley: Yes, yeah we do our research and have.

00:37:52.920 –> 00:38:08.040 Leslie Hartley: places you don’t want to miss whether it’s rafting in that area that’s really good rafting or Great little hikes to go on mountain biking craft brewery or wineries we also have distilleries.

00:38:09.330 –> 00:38:10.110 Leslie Hartley: Carolina.

00:38:11.160 –> 00:38:13.860 Joseph McElroy: distillery shouts out yeah that’s right.

00:38:14.100 –> 00:38:22.170 Leslie Hartley: So it’s we do have recommendations, not only on the artists visiting them but kind of.

00:38:23.250 –> 00:38:33.990 Leslie Hartley: A full experience what would you like to do, in addition to visiting with craft artists, so you get some really good information from those itineraries on our website.

00:38:34.320 –> 00:38:39.720 Joseph McElroy: You get to see do you have pictures of the craft so that people can get an idea of what they’re going to see.

00:38:40.260 –> 00:38:58.170 Leslie Hartley: yeah we do that’s a great question, we do have images of usually of the artist, or at least of the artists, most importantly, not, most importantly, but importantly, of the artist’s works, you get an idea, and you know we’re talking about jewelers Woodworkers weaver’s potters.

00:39:00.450 –> 00:39:03.420 Leslie Hartley: I just visited, with someone last Friday.

00:39:05.730 –> 00:39:14.370 Leslie Hartley: has created I don’t know if your listeners will know this, the barn quilt squares that go on horns.

00:39:14.730 –> 00:39:18.840 Leslie Hartley: On frequently in western North Carolina and I think it started in.

00:39:19.080 –> 00:39:34.650 Leslie Hartley: want to say it started in Ohio but it’s really been adopted adopt adopted here in Western North Carolina and she had created over 3000 of these in the past few years and that kind of blew my mind, because she does it by hand.

00:39:35.580 –> 00:39:50.940 Leslie Hartley: wow yeah and she was inspired by the quilts that she grew up with she said when she grew up she didn’t know about blankets, going to the store and buy blankets, you slept on to your grandmother’s quilts and.

00:39:54.450 –> 00:39:58.560 Joseph McElroy: My mother is still a quilt her she’s going to be at this year so.

00:39:58.560 –> 00:40:02.130 Joseph McElroy: he’s still a quilt yeah it’s serious.

00:40:03.630 –> 00:40:04.290 Joseph McElroy: Oh yeah.

00:40:05.400 –> 00:40:06.540 Joseph McElroy: together so.

00:40:07.980 –> 00:40:16.050 Joseph McElroy: So do I guess it’s not just the bigger towns you taking them into the really small towns too right.

00:40:16.650 –> 00:40:32.310 Leslie Hartley: yeah definitely we want folks to get out into the small towns and find those hidden gems that are you know in these picturesque truly scenically beautiful towns and what beautiful drives to get there.

00:40:33.330 –> 00:40:42.600 Leslie Hartley: really nice road trip to take in western North Carolina whether you’re going along the ribbon of road that runs through it, which is the blue Ridge parkway.

00:40:43.020 –> 00:40:45.120 Leslie Hartley: or on some of the other.

00:40:45.180 –> 00:40:45.960 roads.

00:40:47.490 –> 00:40:50.130 Leslie Hartley: yeah it’s not just the large towns like Asheville.

00:40:51.660 –> 00:41:10.860 Leslie Hartley: it’s smaller little towns like a brass town in Far West, North Carolina that has the John C Campbell folks school that’s well known for a place to you can take workshops there on everything from blacksmithing to basket tree.

00:41:12.630 –> 00:41:12.870 Joseph McElroy: that’s.

00:41:13.500 –> 00:41:14.250 Leslie Hartley: An idea.

00:41:14.700 –> 00:41:18.480 Joseph McElroy: and places like you include also things like the folk art Center on the Blue Ridge Parkway.

00:41:19.410 –> 00:41:22.170 Leslie Hartley: Yes, they’re one of our anchor sites actually.

00:41:22.710 –> 00:41:24.090 Leslie Hartley: cool yeah.

00:41:24.870 –> 00:41:30.630 Joseph McElroy: So it sounds like this is a great resource for visitors coming to North Carolina.

00:41:32.220 –> 00:41:37.350 Joseph McElroy: I look forward I’m gonna look forward to it, how does how to businesses.

00:41:38.580 –> 00:41:55.080 Joseph McElroy: That, for example, I own a lodging facility and we’re going to have some music we’re doing a smoky mountain heritage Center and we’re also going to feature crafts and things, how would a business get the application to be part of your ear trails.

00:41:55.800 –> 00:42:05.280 Leslie Hartley: yeah it’s good to be aware if you wanted to get in touch with me at [email protected].

00:42:06.900 –> 00:42:10.770 Leslie Hartley: I could, I could pass it along definitely I am.

00:42:13.050 –> 00:42:17.580 Leslie Hartley: I can see your place definitely being on the Blue Ridge music trails as a venue.

00:42:18.120 –> 00:42:18.630 Joseph McElroy: yeah.

00:42:18.690 –> 00:42:28.020 Leslie Hartley: For the music and we would also want to talk with you about the craft trails and how that could work out um tell me about your craft.

00:42:29.580 –> 00:42:32.520 Joseph McElroy: Well, you know I have an artistic background.

00:42:33.540 –> 00:42:42.180 Joseph McElroy: So I have actually so personally I’ve been putting some of my own craft art into some of the rooms, but we’ve also been putting handmade quilts.

00:42:42.570 –> 00:42:54.240 Joseph McElroy: And now we’re starting to do things like sculptures that we find and have craft people so throughout the area we’re starting to put them into the rooms.

00:42:55.410 –> 00:42:56.460 Joseph McElroy: And plans to.

00:42:56.490 –> 00:43:04.920 Joseph McElroy: You know, to you know to develop in the smoky mountain heritage Center whole area for crafts and things like that so.

00:43:04.950 –> 00:43:08.460 Leslie Hartley: yeah it’s a good partnership that could really come around.

00:43:08.490 –> 00:43:08.670 that’s.

00:43:09.720 –> 00:43:10.140 Joseph McElroy: cool.

00:43:10.800 –> 00:43:11.760 Joseph McElroy: Already so.

00:43:12.420 –> 00:43:19.620 Joseph McElroy: we’re gonna take a break, right now, we come back you’ll give some any shout out you want to it to people who helped you along the way here and.

00:43:20.670 –> 00:43:22.290 Joseph McElroy: Then what the future holds.

00:45:41.460 –> 00:45:57.930 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin McElroy and back with the gateway to the smokies podcast with my guest Leslie Hartley so we’ve been talking about the Blue Ridge, and the craft trails and music trails the heritage area.

00:45:59.040 –> 00:46:01.590 Joseph McElroy: And all that and it’s all really wonderful.

00:46:02.760 –> 00:46:12.060 Joseph McElroy: You know the title of this podcast is the gateway to the smoky so I was just wondering, you know, do you guys, promote the smokies as part of what you do.

00:46:13.110 –> 00:46:14.400 Leslie Hartley: yeah absolutely.

00:46:15.480 –> 00:46:16.350 Leslie Hartley: You know it’s.

00:46:18.390 –> 00:46:27.030 Leslie Hartley: it’s this remarkable is fear in the mountains and part of it is here in North Carolina.

00:46:28.290 –> 00:46:35.580 Leslie Hartley: wouldn’t be right if we didn’t mention that on our website yeah and whenever we can.

00:46:37.650 –> 00:46:52.050 Leslie Hartley: it’s amazing if someone hasn’t visited yet I think it’s definitely worth make putting that on your bucket list because it’s amazing I mean from whether you’re into birding or.

00:46:54.180 –> 00:46:56.490 Leslie Hartley: leaf-peeping in the fall.

00:46:57.510 –> 00:47:04.230 Leslie Hartley: Seen wildlife and just gorgeous beauty I don’t have to tell you that Joseph how beautiful, it is.

00:47:04.560 –> 00:47:08.580 Joseph McElroy: I imagine, some of your itineraries take you through that great smoky mountain

00:47:08.700 –> 00:47:24.120 Leslie Hartley: Right yeah we actually have the main part of the website BlueRidgeheritage.com on that website you’ll find an itinerary that suggests that cherry for driving through the great smoky mountains National Park so.

00:47:25.470 –> 00:47:27.690 Joseph McElroy: there’s a couple of great drive through there right.

00:47:27.720 –> 00:47:30.990 Joseph McElroy: For 41 you also got the Blue Ridge parkway.

00:47:32.100 –> 00:47:35.970 Joseph McElroy: And maybe people can even go hiking on the Appalachian trail is something that.

00:47:36.990 –> 00:47:40.440 Leslie Hartley: yeah yeah you don’t have to do the whole thing just get.

00:47:43.050 –> 00:47:48.900 Joseph McElroy: Part of it yeah but our you go through this go through the smokies on the Blue Ridge.

00:47:48.930 –> 00:47:57.660 Joseph McElroy: Go then go from Cherokee to balsam which is near Wayne’s old silver just some great chance of lots of arch Maggie Valley.

00:47:58.020 –> 00:47:59.700 Joseph McElroy: And all asheville right.

00:47:59.970 –> 00:48:01.440 Leslie Hartley: Right exactly.

00:48:01.530 –> 00:48:03.570 Joseph McElroy: Okay, great itinerary right there.

00:48:03.870 –> 00:48:14.970 Joseph McElroy: yeah so what’s the future for the Blue Ridge heritage area, the craft trails and music trails me this stuff, what do you guys got planned coming down the pipe.

00:48:15.630 –> 00:48:31.740 Leslie Hartley: yeah well, a lot of our energy is focused on the blue Ridge craft girls right now, and getting that completed it’s always going to be a work in progress, because it’s digital lives on blueridgecrafts.com and, as you can imagine.

00:48:32.880 –> 00:48:40.470 Leslie Hartley: We will always be looking for artists who want to be a part of it and who fit the criteria.

00:48:40.890 –> 00:48:58.770 Leslie Hartley: But anyway, so, but right now we’re working on developing it as fully as we can and we’re having each one of the counties of the 25 counties represented on the website with profiles of those artists and galleries and suggested itineraries.

00:48:59.790 –> 00:49:09.360 Joseph McElroy: that’s fabulous yeah well besides so let’s give let’s you have any anybody want to thank for helping do this along the way, and he.

00:49:09.360 –> 00:49:10.050 Leslie Hartley: Oh wow.

00:49:10.290 –> 00:49:10.920 Joseph McElroy: You did mention.

00:49:12.330 –> 00:49:12.810 Leslie Hartley: So many.

00:49:14.040 –> 00:49:15.990 Leslie Hartley: Yes, so many good partners.

00:49:17.070 –> 00:49:35.220 Leslie Hartley: First, starting with the Appalachian Regional Commission, which has been a major funder of this program and the Cherokee preservation foundation Community foundation Western North Carolina and I probably can’t list think of everyone, thank all of them.

00:49:36.450 –> 00:49:39.750 Leslie Hartley: Two, to all of the arts council’s you know.

00:49:40.770 –> 00:49:52.080 Leslie Hartley: In the tourism development authorities and the chamber of commerce that has really helped us find these wonderful hidden gems in the small towns of Western North Carolina.

00:49:52.530 –> 00:49:59.100 Joseph McElroy: cool I know you mentioned some websites, but you also have Facebook and Instagram account right.

00:49:59.280 –> 00:50:00.180 Joseph McElroy: that’s true.

00:50:00.570 –> 00:50:12.300 Leslie Hartley: yeah yeah that’s true you can find us on Facebook under the Blue Ridge National Heritage Area, as well as on Instagram Blue Ridge National heritage area if you search for that.

00:50:12.960 –> 00:50:23.760 Leslie Hartley: you’ll find us we keep we have some beautiful images, as you can imagine that we get to share on our Instagram account it’s worth following definitely.

00:50:24.000 –> 00:50:33.210 Joseph McElroy: looks fabulous well, I thank you very much for being on this show it’s been wonderful find out about this it’s a great resource, I look forward to seeing it.

00:50:33.900 –> 00:50:45.480 Joseph McElroy: continue to develop I think it’d be great for people wanting to visit the area, to use your websites and accounts and itineraries to make things a wonderful experience for them.

00:50:46.410 –> 00:50:55.710 Leslie Hartley: Thank you, Joseph, and thanks for all you do and helping get the word out about our area and the valuable work that you do get to come to visit your placing.

00:50:55.980 –> 00:51:03.570 Joseph McElroy: You do I’ve got an I got a couple to shout out to my own do.

00:51:04.440 –> 00:51:14.070 Joseph McElroy: So, and then I’m going to talk about a couple of things to come to see so I want you to imagine a place that’s evocative motor courts in the past and modern environment.

00:51:14.490 –> 00:51:22.320 Joseph McElroy: The Chic Appalachian feel a place for adventure and for relaxation imagine a place where you can fish in a mountain heritage trout stream.

00:51:22.770 –> 00:51:38.640 Joseph McElroy: grill the catch on fire and need a company by fine wine or craft beers imagine in place with old-time music world cultural sounds imagine a place with smoky mountain heritage events there is no other place like the Meadowlark Motel in Maggie Valley

00:51:40.950 –> 00:51:43.830 Joseph McElroy: Your smoky mountain adventure starts, with where you stay

00:51:45.150 –> 00:51:47.760 Joseph McElroy: that’s my place the Meadowlarkmotel.com.

00:51:48.810 –> 00:51:53.010 Joseph McElroy: We announced that we have the Meadowlark smoky mountain heritage Center.

00:51:53.610 –> 00:52:03.480 Joseph McElroy: we’re building out with Bob Plott, you know historian, and you know a family who brought the Plott hound American roots in the state of dog of North Carolina.

00:52:03.990 –> 00:52:19.050 Joseph McElroy: And so, our first event is going to be a Plottfest reunion weekend July 7 or the eighth and it’s the weekend the heritage steam activities pertaining to the Plott Pal the state of North Carolina and the plans to get the plot hound festival started again.

00:52:20.280 –> 00:52:30.810 Joseph McElroy: It will be there’ll be a Friday night meet and greet with you know, music and bonfire and hosted by Bob Plott who regale you with lots of stories than the Saturday.

00:52:31.170 –> 00:52:44.070 Joseph McElroy: And you’ll see things like the original pot family gun and accouterments and headed doing spoken display there’ll be a plot dog program that will be a mechanical pair bear bait DEMO with Gary Bowen.

00:52:44.460 –> 00:52:53.610 Joseph McElroy: there’ll be a bench show DEMO with Eugene Walker Gary baby and Gary Bowen there’ll be a present presentation awards and.

00:52:54.270 –> 00:53:05.610 Joseph McElroy: And, with a special more than one by winners designed by Cory Plott and Shane Plott and there’ll be conversations with legends and then there’ll be raffle items.

00:53:06.360 –> 00:53:12.330 Joseph McElroy: donated by Gary baby in GTA hunting supplies and a book signing the bar plot and Jacob about and.

00:53:12.900 –> 00:53:25.560 Joseph McElroy: Then a whole time planning tunes in balance with William runner and there’ll be a separate break and then there’ll be fellowship and brainstorm as well into the evening, and then you might do some karaoke if somebody wants to.

00:53:26.550 –> 00:53:31.290 Joseph McElroy: So should be a nice event, if you stay at the Motel you get in for free.

00:53:32.610 –> 00:53:43.170 Joseph McElroy: Then there’s going to be on the 17th this is exciting talking about balsam range there and Nicholson of balsam range will be having a bluegrass band camp and concert.

00:53:44.700 –> 00:53:50.310 Joseph McElroy: So it’s an exclusive event for aspiring musicians to learn and interact with some of the best artists in the business.

00:53:50.790 –> 00:53:57.690 Joseph McElroy: culminating in an all-star concert so it’d be banned workshops with their Nicholson ADI but boy a lot.

00:53:58.020 –> 00:54:10.680 Joseph McElroy: Eric Ellison read Jones assigning songwriting workshop with their Nicholson and friends and then they’ll be an instrumental workshop with me the mandolin with the dare advantage over their guitar with.

00:54:11.550 –> 00:54:16.320 Joseph McElroy: dinner break and then there’ll be an all-star concert that sounds fantastic no too late.

00:54:18.150 –> 00:54:32.910 Joseph McElroy: So please reach up Meadowlarkmoted.com to experience those things, I also have another sponsor smokiesadventure.com smokies is plural and it’s information and listings about the smokies focused on outdoor recreation.

00:54:33.960 –> 00:54:46.050 Joseph McElroy: With and outdoor life events like weddings and adventures, along with providing similar information about lodging and entertainment and events and conventions and how he moves and stuff like that.

00:54:46.830 –> 00:54:55.560 Joseph McElroy: It has a lot of books and maps available for purchase or download to help you experience your smoky mountain adventure.

00:54:56.580 –> 00:55:00.930 Joseph McElroy: This podcast you can find out more information on.

00:55:02.190 –> 00:55:05.190 Joseph McElroy: On the gatewaytothesmokies.fun.

00:55:06.600 –> 00:55:15.810 Joseph McElroy: And it’s parked in the podcast can be seen the line on WWW.Facebook/gateway tothesmokiespodcasts.

00:55:19.530 –> 00:55:41.220 Joseph McElroy: See it’s also available on talkradio.NYC and the podcast you hear live on talk radio.nyc and they also have a Facebook page where they’re streaming live so look for talkradio on Facebook talkradio.NYC on Facebook and you’ll be able to see it live there.

00:55:43.230 –> 00:55:53.850 Joseph McElroy: And next week we’re going to have a guest named Dale Stewart is a known nationally, known as a naturalist and solo explorer ethnologist just a natural sounding board.

00:55:54.240 –> 00:56:02.280 Joseph McElroy: And syndicated radio program nature beds aims to immerse the listener in the wonderful surprise and importance that is nature.

00:56:04.020 –> 00:56:14.880 Joseph McElroy: So, and again I want to mention talk radio.NYC and network we air on live and as a lot of wonderful shows try listening to the one after this about New York City the.

00:56:17.160 –> 00:56:21.150 Joseph McElroy: And I look forward to seeing you next week same time same that channel.

Our guest in this episode is Janet McCue, she enjoyed a great career as former Director of the Mann Library at Cornell University while earning a stellar reputation as an award-winning independent writer and researcher. She is an avid hiker and naturalist who often visits and writes about the Great Smokies.

She has collaborated with renowned local naturalist, George Ellison on several literary projects -most notably, “Back Of Beyond --A Horace Kephart Biography,” a winner of the prestigious Thomas Wolfe Literary Award. The book has received rave reviews across the United States. She is currently working on a documentary film on another interesting artist of the Smokies, George Masa.

Tune in for this fun conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.

Joseph starts today’s episode by introducing today’s topic, the role of photography in the creation of the national park. He just got back from the Smokies and was excited by the bewilderment his family found in the mountains. He discusses the coming group of cicadas that only come out every 13-17 years, and are present in huge numbers. He discusses a man helping to discover butterflies in the mountains, and a funny quote from him. On Friday, May 21, he is speaking to educate the public on butterflies. He introduces the annual speaker series coming up and talks about the wildflower season in the mountains. He talks about a website that does daily haiku, which had a very fitting one for this conversation as it related to wildflowers. Joseph introduces today’s guest, Janet McCue, and her expansive career. Even though she lives in New York, Janet has contributed much to the mountains, working on projects relating to some of its founders, Horace Kephart and George Masa. Janet discusses some of her accomplishments working at Cornell University as a librarian, comparing her job to that of Horace Kephart. She talks about creating a flexible library that blended digital and print in a space made in the 1930s. Joseph actually works in the library Janet worked in and the two share a laugh about this. Joseph highlights two of Janet’s big accomplishments from her time at the library.

Coming back from the break, Janet and Joseph joke about sharing a drink at the Cornell Club, and Joseph asks how Janet got into writing her book about Horace Kephart. While she may not have had many connections to Horace or his life, Janet’s husband owned a book by him, and the bigger draw to his stories for Janet was the affinity she found for the mountains after backpacking in the Smokies. After learning that Horace had been a librarian, she wrote a paper about him, doing a lot of research about him and becoming even more interested in his life. Both Janet and Horace’s careers actually began at Cornell. After having kids and a busy career in which she put Horace on the back burner, Janet realized that doing something with her Kephart research was on her bucket list. She applied for research leave, traveled to collections in different libraries, and meeting people with ties to his life. This led to a collaboration with another writer in which she helped to write an introduction which ended up turning into her biography of Horace. She discusses memories she has of falling in love with the Smokies when she was young. The two share stories of food and hiking spots in the mountains.

Next Janet discusses the motivation for publishing the book with the Great Smoky Mountains Associations, wanting to make sure that the profits from the book were given back to the park, something that reflected Kephart’s own life as he gave a lot to the park. Joseph talks about his own experience with the GSMA, also wanting to support the park. The two move on to George Masa, another interesting artist of the Smokies. Janet looks at the photos of Masa and the words of Kephart together as good partners in helping the nation get to know the Smokies. Their art helped to reach the nation and inform it of why the park needed protection. She reads a quote from Kephart detailing the uniqueness and exceptionality of Masa’s photography. Joseph discusses Rockefeller contributing to the park as a result of Masa’s photos and Janet talks about this as well as Masa’s photos being sent to other important figures of that time. Masa came to the US from Japan, never becoming a citizen, and even though there is much documentation of his life in the US, there is little known of his early life. Janet discusses documentaries on Masa as well as some of his work in the early development of Asheville.

Moving into the last segment of the day, Joseph introduces an anecdote about Masa’s burial. He died during the depression and was unable to afford to be buried next to Kephart, which was his wish. Neither were buried in the Smokies though. Horace was buried in Bryson City but has a tombstone in Ithaca as his wife was buried there. Although he may have died poor, many cared for Masa, getting money together to erect a tombstone in his honor. Janet talks about her upcoming book, and the difficulty she has found doing research on his early life as Japan is having a resurgence in COVID-19 cases. Janet talks about other things going on in her life, such as being a grandparent with another grandchild on the way. She moves on to talk about dedications for her book on Kephart and people who helped her with different parts of the book. On top of having many people who helped her with her book on Kephart, she has similar stories for her upcoming book on Masa. Joseph ends tonight’s episode by sharing resources of his where he can be reached and where he has materials related to the podcast as well as a preview of next week’s episode’s guest.

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00:00:37.980 –> 00:00:38.520 Joseph McElroy: howdy.

00:00:38.670 –> 00:00:43.260 Joseph McElroy: Thanks for joining us on this week’s episode of gateway to the smokies.

00:00:44.070 –> 00:00:52.500 Joseph McElroy: This podcast is about America’s most visited National Park, the great smoky mountains national park, and the surrounding towns.

00:00:52.950 –> 00:01:05.580 Joseph McElroy: This area’s filled with ancient natural beauty a deep storied history and rich mountain cultures that we explore with weekly episodes I am Joseph Franklin McElroy.

00:01:05.910 –> 00:01:17.280 Joseph McElroy: A man of the world, but also with deep roots in these mountains. My family has lived in the great smokies for over 200 years my business is in travel, but my heart is in smoky mountain culture.

00:01:18.240 –> 00:01:28.500 Joseph McElroy: today’s episode we’ll continue our understanding of the founding of the great smoky mountains national park and how photography was instrumental in its creation.

00:01:29.310 –> 00:01:38.490 Joseph McElroy: But first I’m going to tell you that I just got back from the smokies and there are beautiful and the new york’s like a fake background if you’re watching on zoom but.

00:01:38.820 –> 00:01:43.320 Joseph McElroy: I’m down there all the time we were just down there for two weeks, me and my family.

00:01:43.680 –> 00:01:57.780 Joseph McElroy: And there were wonderful and all our families were there, the grandmothers on both sides aunts and uncles my grown son Ethan and my grandma and grandpa McElroy boy my toddler twins just love him.

00:01:59.010 –> 00:02:05.250 Joseph McElroy: And they were also overwhelmed just by the experience they haven’t been there in a year because we’ve been stuck in New York because of a quarantine.

00:02:05.670 –> 00:02:13.110 Joseph McElroy: And they got to see groundhogs and rabbits and squirrels and trout and all sorts of birds,

00:02:13.380 –> 00:02:23.400 Joseph McElroy: I mean we missed the scene red birds and yellow blurred the birds and bluebirds and robbins and they wanted to know all about every one of them, and it was just fantastic giving that spirit that experience.

00:02:23.730 –> 00:02:29.730 Joseph McElroy: And this was all just in the backyard the back, recreation area of the Meadowlark motel, which is our mountain resort.

00:02:30.930 –> 00:02:39.480 Joseph McElroy: And they have just tickled my wife, she got the plant a lot of flowers, including a new wildflower bed at the motel.

00:02:40.230 –> 00:02:42.180 Joseph McElroy: It was absolutely refreshing I’m telling you.

00:02:42.660 –> 00:02:52.680 Joseph McElroy: And we got to go to one of the top barbecue joints in America, the hazelwood smokehouse I recommend it highly they have eight different sauces and everyone is better than the previous one.

00:02:53.040 –> 00:03:03.870 Joseph McElroy: And an actual I took my wife on a birthday dinner outing to a great foodie joint called jargon, it had great food, I had a smoked trout dip.

00:03:04.230 –> 00:03:09.960 Joseph McElroy: And then I had this trout dish I went all trout that night, and it was just unbelievably good.

00:03:10.830 –> 00:03:22.950 Joseph McElroy: But they have these incredible cocktails made one out of a ball of ice that was hollow and they actually poured the mixed mixture into the hollow ice that has a sort of a mix between old fashioned a Manhattan.

00:03:23.460 –> 00:03:27.390 Joseph McElroy: And then, when they served it to you, they took out a little hammer and busted the ball.

00:03:28.920 –> 00:03:35.610 Joseph McElroy: It was a dramatic presentation, so I tell you the smoky mountain is a great place to go.

00:03:36.810 –> 00:03:40.170 Joseph McElroy: it’s also about to have a lot of.

00:03:43.650 –> 00:03:51.150 Joseph McElroy: kickoff I just lost the name I just lost them the name it’s the SCOTUS it’s a staccato apocalypse about is about to happen.

00:03:51.900 –> 00:04:01.950 Joseph McElroy: it’d be on the lookout it’s a rare natural phenomenon historical event that’s unfolding right now and you’ll go through mid-July that’s getting billions of.

00:04:03.150 –> 00:04:13.410 Joseph McElroy: these the 17-year periodical staccato is and they’re going to emerge across a wide swath of these United States, including the great smoky mountains.

00:04:13.890 –> 00:04:22.260 Joseph McElroy: And it’s going to be loud they’re very loud and this periodical SCOTUS comprise a group of species that don’t emerge yearly but.

00:04:22.890 –> 00:04:32.250 Joseph McElroy: Like every 13 or 17 years cycles, and this is the 17-year cycles and they’re already getting reports of them emerging near Knoxville.

00:04:32.670 –> 00:04:45.510 Joseph McElroy: And we expect them to be all across the bit basically the western part of the mountains, the smokies so from looking rock decades cove area so it’s a historical event, you should go see it.

00:04:46.710 –> 00:04:58.140 Joseph McElroy: I also wanted to mention that there’s a there’s smoky science series that’s returning to do with and it’s gonna start with a spotlight on butterflies.

00:04:59.610 –> 00:05:10.050 Joseph McElroy: So the first one is with Warren Bilderberg he spends a lot of time photographing southern Appalachian butterflies in the great smoky mountains, National Park.

00:05:11.250 –> 00:05:21.240 Joseph McElroy: And they might it might you’ll find out why we talked about for emphasizing photography but he willingly admits that he is.

00:05:22.020 –> 00:05:32.610 Joseph McElroy: Did he didn’t really start this journey of butterfly discovery in earnest until retired, but now he’s doing it wholeheartedly and he’s been volunteering caves code.

00:05:32.940 –> 00:05:41.940 Joseph McElroy: I read a quote for him, one day, there was a family of three, with a little girl, maybe 11 or 12 years old, near a group of the blue like butterflies along the road.

00:05:42.240 –> 00:05:53.250 Joseph McElroy: He said I went over and said they look like pipeline swallowtails but then the little girl immediately corrected me and said no, those are spice Bush swallowtails.

00:05:55.140 –> 00:06:00.420 Joseph McElroy: I never heard of them, but she pointed out a very subtle difference between the two, so he had to learn.

00:06:02.640 –> 00:06:11.460 Joseph McElroy: So he’s gonna help other you guys up everybody dive into the world of these southern Appalachian butterflies on Friday may 21 let’s coming up.

00:06:11.850 –> 00:06:25.080 Joseph McElroy: And it’s being organized by discovering life in America and it’s got a free science it’s Sugarland speaker series and sugar land is the gateway to the Smokies in Gatlinburg.

00:06:25.470 –> 00:06:31.380 Joseph McElroy: And they have a whole science Center and things like that and there’s going to be a six-part education series.

00:06:32.610 –> 00:06:34.650 Joseph McElroy: And it should be, it should be very nice.

00:06:35.580 –> 00:06:43.740 Joseph McElroy: It was, it was the series is created in 2017 I think it took a break last year, but it gives regional sciences scientists a chance.

00:06:43.920 –> 00:06:54.780 Joseph McElroy: to share their research with a general audience and answer questions and discuss the latest issues affecting regional biodiversity and concern for conservation and.

00:06:55.290 –> 00:07:00.600 Joseph McElroy: This year will be there will be an annual the annual speaker series start goes from.

00:07:01.200 –> 00:07:09.270 Joseph McElroy: will also be online from one to three on the third Friday of every month and it’s read it is free registration at D Li a.org.

00:07:09.960 –> 00:07:17.460 Joseph McElroy: I want to remind you that wildflowers are always a big thing in the spring and it’s still happening, it goes through June.

00:07:18.150 –> 00:07:24.480 Joseph McElroy: The great year because you know you think there’s a small short season for wildflowers, but in the mountains, what happens is.

00:07:24.900 –> 00:07:28.170 Joseph McElroy: The wildfire start in the lower elevation and then, as the.

00:07:28.650 –> 00:07:39.540 Joseph McElroy: As the season gets warmer it’s warmer and warmer up the mountain so different parts of the mountain start having wildfires later in the season, so we haven’t actually along wild.

00:07:40.320 –> 00:07:47.070 Joseph McElroy: flower season in the smoky mountains and it makes for great hiking and different hiking experience every time you go.

00:07:47.430 –> 00:07:53.430 Joseph McElroy: You know it’s blackberries are blooming now and I love blue blackberries and they’ll bloom through June.

00:07:53.790 –> 00:08:07.200 Joseph McElroy: And then they’ll start having blackberries in July and making the bears happy and making me happy because I love Blackberry cobbler I grew up eating Blackberry color I remember going to pick them that and I’ll probably have all podcasts just about blackberries and August.

00:08:10.470 –> 00:08:20.760 Joseph McElroy: Now, speaking of wildflowers my guest is has a connection to the canal library, so I was pursuing the Cornell library website.

00:08:21.300 –> 00:08:33.000 Joseph McElroy: And, and I found that they do a daily haiku and the days were about wow flower, so I had just done this, you know thinking about what the podcast was I said Well, this is really.

00:08:34.260 –> 00:08:58.230 Joseph McElroy: You know opportunistic for me to take them and talk about this, but you can find it at haiku.manlive.cornell.edu and this one is by an author named cat Lehman and it’s all these haikus are simple but beautiful just another anonymous kindness wildflowers.

00:08:59.340 –> 00:09:01.800 Joseph McElroy: And then another by Carol Pickerington.

00:09:02.880 –> 00:09:08.880 Joseph McElroy: Wildflower field, the colors that don’t get go together do.

00:09:10.860 –> 00:09:12.870 Joseph McElroy: And then Tom painting wrote.

00:09:13.980 –> 00:09:18.450 Joseph McElroy: ending in wildflowers the logging road.

00:09:19.620 –> 00:09:28.470 Joseph McElroy: And for those of you not into hiking you can also ride around in the mountains so don’t forget that especially a motorcycle so I found this haiku as well.

00:09:30.120 –> 00:09:36.030 Joseph McElroy: bikers headlights threading down the mountains moonless night.

00:09:37.470 –> 00:09:47.790 Joseph McElroy: So my guest today is Janet McCue who enjoyed a great career as the former Director of the Mann Library at Cornell University.

00:09:48.180 –> 00:09:58.950 Joseph McElroy: While earning a Stellar reputation as an award-winning Independent Writer and research, she is an avid hiker and naturalist who often visits and writes about the great smokies.

00:09:59.700 –> 00:10:10.230 Joseph McElroy: She has collaborated with a renowned local naturalist George Ellison on several literary projects, most notably backup beyond a horoscope heart biography.

00:10:11.040 –> 00:10:24.510 Joseph McElroy: And it was the winner of the prestigious Thomas Wolfe literary award is received rave reviews and now she’s also currently working I think on a book and a documentary film on another important founder of the smokies George masa.

00:10:25.320 –> 00:10:34.320 Joseph McElroy: She and her husband actually live in the up in New York area, and I think near new Rochelle we were just talking about that so welcome Janet.

00:10:34.740 –> 00:10:43.980 Janet McCue: Well, thank you for that Nice introduction and you started with some poetry, because I hear you two are a poet, so what.

00:10:44.340 –> 00:10:47.910 Joseph McElroy: Was devil the been my biggest claim to.

00:10:47.910 –> 00:10:56.640 Joseph McElroy: fame in terms of poetry, is, I had a poem published on the Jumbotron and Times Square on valentine’s day yeah.

00:10:57.540 –> 00:10:59.850 Janet McCue: that’s almost as good as man library’s website.

00:11:02.160 –> 00:11:15.990 Joseph McElroy: So, so you had a great career at Cornell and you have this stellar reputation can tell you, can you tell some about your proudest accomplishment prior to this new journey of historic mountain lore.

00:11:17.160 –> 00:11:27.390 Janet McCue: Well, I did have a wonderful career Mann library when I think about how that career changed, and when I started as a librarian in 1979.

00:11:28.590 –> 00:11:38.460 Janet McCue: My career looked a lot like what course kept parts career did and 1890 he wrote an article on being a librarian and it starts with.

00:11:38.970 –> 00:11:47.640 Janet McCue: You know he’s trying to do some work and a bevy of sophomores come at the desk a flurry of different kinds of questions.

00:11:47.940 –> 00:11:56.550 Janet McCue: And that’s exactly what the reference desk was like when I started my career when I ended my career, though it was very much a digital world and.

00:11:57.120 –> 00:12:15.810 Janet McCue: I loved being able to grow up as a librarian within that very dynamic world, but you know, a couple of things that I’m really proud of in terms of my career one we built and we took a building that was designed in the 1930s.

00:12:16.980 –> 00:12:29.640 Janet McCue: But not built until the 1950s and created a library that was so flexible that you could move through different periods of digital and print information.

00:12:30.120 –> 00:12:40.920 Janet McCue: Ahead of a very collaborative style to it so students, could you know work in groups of two working groups of five it was no longer than the hushing kind of library.

00:12:41.640 –> 00:13:01.980 Janet McCue: But it was very much a vibrant place The other thing I loved and I alluded to this in your own poetry we tried to blend science and art, we had a gallery in our library, we have haiku that was presented every morning and subscribers from all over the world.

00:13:02.250 –> 00:13:04.560 Joseph McElroy: You know I’m in your library, by the way, you.

00:13:05.550 –> 00:13:08.700 Joseph McElroy: know that I actually have work in your library.

00:13:09.030 –> 00:13:09.900 Janet McCue: Oh come on JESSICA.

00:13:10.740 –> 00:13:15.510 Joseph McElroy: Do you have the Rose gold and archive of new media art.

00:13:16.350 –> 00:13:21.510 Joseph McElroy: In, there is the computer Fine Arts COM and I have two pieces in that collection.

00:13:21.930 –> 00:13:29.190 Janet McCue: Oh, my gosh that’s amazing I mean that we do I mean rose gold sweets collection is extraordinary.

00:13:29.400 –> 00:13:43.530 Janet McCue: yeah that is in the special collections and I was in more the science and for now, but, at the last five years of my career, I was in the same library that held the Rose gold, so we did we were in the same library.

00:13:44.160 –> 00:13:45.960 Joseph McElroy: Well, I have to go look in the cabinet.

00:13:46.710 –> 00:13:47.190 Janet McCue: In there.

00:13:47.550 –> 00:13:52.980 Joseph McElroy: I imagine it’s probably not working right now, you have to go back to the library because flashes are no longer working

00:13:53.640 –> 00:14:02.430 Joseph McElroy: On most people’s computers, these days, I have to figure out how to that’s something that Librarians need to figure out how to do is what are you gonna do about technologies that ages out.

00:14:02.640 –> 00:14:02.970 that’s.

00:14:04.110 –> 00:14:10.350 Janet McCue: What one of the major I mean you, I mean I retired seven years ago, and that was still one of the things that.

00:14:10.440 –> 00:14:11.280 Janet McCue: You know that.

00:14:11.490 –> 00:14:13.590 Janet McCue: puzzling us and it’s still puzzling us so.

00:14:14.040 –> 00:14:22.500 Joseph McElroy: you’re right well I’m about to go to break, but I don’t want to, I want to mention two things I really was impressed by you hired the first Metadata library.

00:14:23.880 –> 00:14:34.560 Joseph McElroy: And I’m big on Metadata has become part of the underlying infrastructure of the Internet and you also led the renovation of the modern library, to make it happen to create a sustainable CAFE.

00:14:34.980 –> 00:14:40.380 Joseph McElroy: which you know I’m big into state sustainability and Meadowlark is three pints sustainable designated.

00:14:41.400 –> 00:14:49.800 Joseph McElroy: lodging and only one west of Asheville so anyway, when we come back we’re gonna talk more about your research into Horace and George.

00:14:50.400 –> 00:14:53.010 Janet McCue: Okay we’ll look forward to it, thank you, Joseph.

00:17:50.610 –> 00:18:04.500 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin McElroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcast and my guest Janet McCue so Janet you know I forgot to mention you come to the Cornell Club in New York City.

00:18:05.460 –> 00:18:16.200 Janet McCue: Occasionally, when I take the bus from campus to campus to campus bus is a godsend for linking upstate New York Ithaca

00:18:17.550 –> 00:18:23.280 Janet McCue: to Manhattan yes, when the Cornell club is our destination.

00:18:23.580 –> 00:18:31.410 Joseph McElroy: Well, you know I ask is because we actually Duke does not have a club, but the Duke made a deal with Cornell and I’m able to go that Club too.

00:18:37.980 –> 00:18:39.000 Joseph McElroy: all over the place here.

00:18:39.780 –> 00:18:42.810 Janet McCue: Well, we can we’ll have to have a drink sometime at one of the.

00:18:44.700 –> 00:18:45.270 Janet McCue: spots that.

00:18:45.300 –> 00:18:49.830 Joseph McElroy: Maybe they’ll have one of those ice balls and they’ll crack it in front of me that’d be great.

00:18:51.600 –> 00:19:01.740 Joseph McElroy: So you had a great career at Cornell so how did you get into writing a book about Horrace Kephart the founder of the great smoky mountains co-founder.

00:19:02.490 –> 00:19:06.120 Janet McCue: yeah, it is a bit, it is a bit odd that a woman who I’m

00:19:07.260 –> 00:19:08.010 Janet McCue: a

00:19:09.690 –> 00:19:23.970 Janet McCue: Movement of work sick right now lives in upstate New York would delve into for the last 40 years about a man who, who was born in Iowa and spent the last you know 30 years of his life in.

00:19:24.930 –> 00:19:41.100 Janet McCue: In the smokies but you know there were lots of intersections which I, you know people are often surprised at the intersections I mean my first one was my husband had a copy of Khepart camping and woodcraft a copy of his book on his bookshelf and.

00:19:42.150 –> 00:19:49.920 Janet McCue: He in many respects, taught us how to build a campfire I mean we were both city kids I grew up in Pittsburgh he grew up in cities, all over the world.

00:19:51.270 –> 00:19:58.380 Janet McCue: Neither of our parents taught us how to build a campfire so we learned a lot from Horrace Kephart’s book.

00:19:59.280 –> 00:20:13.590 Janet McCue: We also were avid backpack backpackers and one of our first trips was into the smokies and we had several subsequent trips to the smokies, including one when we went to brace in place which was Cornell’s which was counterparts.

00:20:16.590 –> 00:20:21.810 Janet McCue: A favorite spot that he had spent a great deal of time in, particularly in the summers.

00:20:22.860 –> 00:20:42.750 Janet McCue: So the smokies and the beauty of the smokies were really what drew me to Kephart’s story, because as far as I knew, you know Kephart played an instrumental role in the establishment Smokies I would learn that you know little tidbits of the story, as on these backpacking trips.

00:20:43.980 –> 00:20:45.360 Janet McCue: And when I came to.

00:20:46.380 –> 00:20:49.590 Janet McCue: I came to Grad school at the University of Michigan.

00:20:50.580 –> 00:21:10.020 Janet McCue: I had learned from my husband Kephart had been a librarian and I decided to do a research paper at some point for our research methods class on Kephart and discovered his career as a librarian discovered George Ellison’s introduction to our Southern highlanders read Kephart’s books.

00:21:11.310 –> 00:21:22.110 Janet McCue: And you know became even more interested in the man and as luck would have it, my first job was at Cornell and Cornell’s career as a librarian started.

00:21:23.370 –> 00:21:24.750 Janet McCue: At Cornell.

00:21:25.080 –> 00:21:27.060 Janet McCue: marks efforts career started.

00:21:27.450 –> 00:21:28.980 Joseph McElroy: I didn’t know that wow.

00:21:29.670 –> 00:21:34.380 Janet McCue: So he came to Cornell as a Grad student and history and in.

00:21:36.090 –> 00:21:39.120 Janet McCue: Political science and he.

00:21:41.370 –> 00:21:54.120 Janet McCue: began working in the libraries and was hired by the first by Cornell’s first library and will learn Fisk and, in fact, went to Italy with Fisk and.

00:21:55.110 –> 00:22:06.600 Janet McCue: and help collect and help catalog the Petrarch and Dante collection which Cornell has so you had lots of connections into Cornell and I was at Cornell.

00:22:07.380 –> 00:22:20.100 Janet McCue: I used to do research on Saturday mornings in the archives and you know learn again learn more about kept part but then you know I had kids I had a busy career and I put them on the back burner for many years.

00:22:21.210 –> 00:22:30.210 Janet McCue: And then I was doing a cross country ski trip with a group of friends and one of my friends asked me what I wanted to do before I died and.

00:22:31.170 –> 00:22:40.590 Janet McCue: I listed a couple of things one was taking dance lessons with my husband, which I think because it was on that death list he actually did it with making.

00:22:42.900 –> 00:22:51.150 Janet McCue: but also on that list was do something with my Kephart research and she asked me a very important question she said what’s stopping you and.

00:22:51.810 –> 00:23:00.690 Janet McCue: So I had to answer that question that nothing is stopping me, so I am I applied for research leave and went to St Louis went to.

00:23:01.200 –> 00:23:15.480 Janet McCue: Western North Carolina archives went to brown university and various archival collections that filled in more gaps on you know, on Kephart story, and then in 2009 I met George Ellison.

00:23:16.800 –> 00:23:21.450 Janet McCue: Libby Kephart Hargrave is the great-granddaughter of Horrace

00:23:21.930 –> 00:23:24.720 Joseph McElroy: Kephart in his famous he was just on our show.

00:23:24.930 –> 00:23:34.950 Janet McCue: Right right, so you know all your listeners know all of us apart, but Libby established something called Kephart days and a librarian from.

00:23:36.720 –> 00:23:47.430 Janet McCue: Alaska, believe it or not, told me about Kephart’s days and because he knew of my interest in Kephart and so I decided to go down and that’s where I met George that’s where I met Libby.

00:23:48.420 –> 00:24:02.310 Janet McCue: I had you know, a group of friends and colleagues that I am honored to have in my life today who have helped me tremendously so at that point, George was writing an introduction to.

00:24:02.940 –> 00:24:09.090 Janet McCue: A new edition of camping and woodcraft and he asked me to collaborate with him because he knew that I had done.

00:24:10.320 –> 00:24:16.290 Janet McCue: Research on care products early career on his break down the whole.

00:24:18.930 –> 00:24:26.100 Janet McCue: trauma that actually led Kephart to the smokies, and so we had a great collaboration and.

00:24:27.540 –> 00:24:30.720 Joseph McElroy: that’s the one that ended up being like an 80-page introduction right.

00:24:30.750 –> 00:24:31.470 Janet McCue: Yes, it was.

00:24:33.300 –> 00:24:44.040 Joseph McElroy: I just do my research, I saw it, and I didn’t get a chance to read it, because it wasn’t a bit usually I tried to find everything online, but this isn’t available online so.

00:24:45.120 –> 00:24:46.380 Joseph McElroy: What was the.

00:24:46.680 –> 00:24:48.300 Joseph McElroy: What was the gist of your introduction.

00:24:49.020 –> 00:24:51.210 Janet McCue: Well, you know we have is pretty much a biography.

00:24:51.240 –> 00:24:55.530 Janet McCue: In the making right in fact after we read that introduction.

00:24:56.970 –> 00:25:10.170 Janet McCue: The great smoky mountains association Steve camp was the publication’s director at the time, he asked us if we can expand it into a full-length biography, and so it was really.

00:25:11.160 –> 00:25:18.060 Janet McCue: From my perspective is the start of my collaboration with George which was you know just pure pleasure.

00:25:18.810 –> 00:25:35.880 Janet McCue: he’s a wonderful writer, and you know his knowledge of the lived in the smokies I didn’t live in the smokies and you know we could blend our both our voices, as well as our knowledge base and be able to you know to write a full-length biography.

00:25:36.720 –> 00:25:45.780 Joseph McElroy: So you so do you in your do you do, you get to come down, did you get to come down quite a bit for the smoke in the smokies when you were doing that book.

00:25:46.770 –> 00:25:50.040 Janet McCue: I did, yes, I spent a good portion of.

00:25:51.210 –> 00:25:54.780 Janet McCue: I would try and come down, just like you say come down in the spring and we’re just.

00:25:56.160 –> 00:26:12.180 Janet McCue: You know I fell in love with the smokies as a young person, and you know so coming back to see yellow trillium are painted trillium or you know mine has a vivid memory of of of a hike when we were at the top of.

00:26:13.350 –> 00:26:23.100 Janet McCue: The top of the trail and we read treetop level and tool of popularly tool popular land and just being able to smell, a tool of popular blossom.

00:26:24.570 –> 00:26:37.230 Janet McCue: In on a trail and a hiking trail is this just an incredible yeah I had my first taste of ramps in the smokies you know I I became aware of the beauties of nature.

00:26:38.670 –> 00:26:41.790 Joseph McElroy: So weird to me that ramps have become so popular I.

00:26:41.790 –> 00:26:43.170 Joseph McElroy: Know whole foods.

00:26:43.440 –> 00:26:56.190 Joseph McElroy: Yes, like I grew up and I, you know I used to distinguish myself by telling people yeah yeah why ramps whenever you’re what’s ramps and get to tell them all about it now it’s like they already know it’s took it away, one of my standards.

00:26:59.910 –> 00:27:01.350 Janet McCue: Were you know some fisherman.

00:27:02.430 –> 00:27:11.280 Janet McCue: You know, we thought we were in the middle of a wilderness because we had been hiking for in our hiking trips for like a week to 10 days we hadn’t seen anybody.

00:27:11.640 –> 00:27:20.250 Janet McCue: And then we ran across these fishermen, one day, who offered us bacon and ramps and something else I can’t remember, but you.

00:27:20.250 –> 00:27:20.370 know.

00:27:21.810 –> 00:27:23.280 Janet McCue: In the middle of a hiking trip was.

00:27:23.400 –> 00:27:36.120 Joseph McElroy: scrambled eggs, what do you know, one of the great dishes for the ramps is to do scrambled eggs and bacon grease with a side of given ramps and scrambled eggs it’s just unbelievably good.

00:27:36.390 –> 00:27:37.680 Joseph McElroy: You know Waynesville.

00:27:37.860 –> 00:27:56.190 Joseph McElroy: In Haywood county near Maggie Valley, where I have my motel has the long I think it’s one of the longest-running natural foods festivals in the nation is called the ways will ramp this every August, I think that even a resume that this year that’s a worthwhile coronary.

00:27:56.190 –> 00:27:57.390 Janet McCue: expand that good.

00:27:57.510 –> 00:27:57.870 Janet McCue: yeah.

00:27:57.960 –> 00:28:06.090 Joseph McElroy: We all the different kinds of food, you can get from this mountain delicacy that’s now become somewhat in thing and.

00:28:07.710 –> 00:28:10.440 Joseph McElroy: restaurant menus I see it, all over the place.

00:28:11.400 –> 00:28:14.490 Joseph McElroy: Do you have any other favorite hiking spots before we go to the break.

00:28:14.910 –> 00:28:24.480 Janet McCue: Well I’m gonna mention one because I got an email message from a colleague of mine called Ken wise and I actually lost my wedding ring and the smokies we had.

00:28:24.720 –> 00:28:25.860 Joseph McElroy: married he was smoking they’re.

00:28:27.960 –> 00:28:38.070 Janet McCue: looking for a fisherman find my wedding ring on it was a day, where it, you know torrential rain, we had maybe 15 stream crossings.

00:28:38.610 –> 00:28:51.990 Janet McCue: And at some point, I slipped on a rock I was like a turtle in the water, with my backpack pulling me down and before my brain could tell my finger to curl the current just pulled the.

00:28:52.020 –> 00:28:54.510 Janet McCue: wedding ring off of my fingers, so it was.

00:28:55.770 –> 00:29:09.000 Janet McCue: I think of the lowland creek area as being you know both a dramatic spot, but certainly a memorable spot in my friend, Ken said that he says.

00:29:10.560 –> 00:29:17.850 Janet McCue: He was recently backpacking there, and he scanned the creek a bit to see if I can find your missing ring your ring is somewhere in the creek.

00:29:18.690 –> 00:29:28.860 Janet McCue: But then he couldn’t help but look up and down any of the creeks to see if they could find it and he said, of course, when the water flows over a rock the water sparkles just like a diamond.

00:29:30.720 –> 00:29:34.380 Joseph McElroy: So now we’re going to crowdsource everybody’s crowdsources finding her.

00:29:34.560 –> 00:29:34.740 way.

00:29:36.360 –> 00:29:37.500 Joseph McElroy: So you come back to.

00:29:38.460 –> 00:29:44.520 Joseph McElroy: The from the break we’ll talk more about the books and your new books coming out okay.

00:29:44.670 –> 00:29:45.120 Janet McCue: Thank you.

00:32:34.170 –> 00:32:42.960 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin McElroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcasts and my guest Janet McCue.

00:32:43.500 –> 00:32:55.380 Joseph McElroy: So Janet you, you have it, you have a collaboration out already a nice book that is actually considered one of the most definitive works or bios on Kephart ever written is called back and beyond.

00:32:56.160 –> 00:33:03.300 Joseph McElroy: it’s received rave reviews so So this was published by the great smoky mountains associations right.

00:33:04.290 –> 00:33:11.070 Joseph McElroy: Yes, the other Francis figure and Libby Kephart Hargrave have both been guests there.

00:33:12.930 –> 00:33:14.250 Janet McCue: Bombing good company, then.

00:33:14.280 –> 00:33:19.260 Joseph McElroy: During good What was it like to work with the great smoky mountain association or good company right.

00:33:19.620 –> 00:33:34.290 Janet McCue: Oh, it was wonderful I mean you know I think both George and I felt it was important to publish through the smokies because we wanted profits from the book to to to go to support this monkeys programs and display the smokies park.

00:33:35.460 –> 00:33:43.470 Janet McCue: kept parts story is so much about the protection of the great smoky mountain National Park.

00:33:45.030 –> 00:33:57.120 Janet McCue: He said that you know he felt that the mountains and saved his life, and that was you know the last 10 years of his life we’re very focused on making sure that the park was established.

00:33:57.810 –> 00:34:12.150 Janet McCue: So George and I felt that same commitment but you know, Francis was my editor we’ve worked with Steve kemp core camping and woodcraft introduction, but Steve retired and Francis was hired and she was absolute.

00:34:12.720 –> 00:34:13.350 Joseph McElroy: pleasure to.

00:34:14.400 –> 00:34:22.980 Janet McCue: she’s a wonderful editor and incredible storyteller and she never lost her temper at me and my use of commerce, you know

00:34:24.420 –> 00:34:29.520 Janet McCue: I know she kept trying to teach me but I didn’t have time to learn all the rules of commas, and she knew them all.

00:34:30.780 –> 00:34:38.730 Janet McCue: No truly I was reading a book, the other night, and I finished it, I said to my husband this person needed Francis.

00:34:38.820 –> 00:34:39.450 This person.

00:34:42.120 –> 00:34:43.800 Joseph McElroy: is very, very, very confident.

00:34:44.040 –> 00:34:50.760 Joseph McElroy: You know I I really liked the great smoky mountain sessions, because, again, all the proceeds go to help.

00:34:51.120 –> 00:34:58.800 Joseph McElroy: The support that the great smoky mountain Park, because you know, there is no entrance fee to the park, so it has the way I the way support you know, and I.

00:34:59.490 –> 00:35:07.620 Joseph McElroy: I created my storefronts and everything for this, I made the decision to go for the most part, instead of through Amazon to go through the group.

00:35:07.620 –> 00:35:13.620 Joseph McElroy: GSA and that means I have to do, shipping, but you know we are books are also GS ma what we sell.

00:35:14.700 –> 00:35:18.780 Joseph McElroy: And it goes directly to support the great smoky mountains and national and you know.

00:35:19.380 –> 00:35:33.240 Joseph McElroy: we’re going to be doing a lot of stuff about CAP hard at the metal Arc we launched the middle like smoky mountain heritage Center hope you can that we’re gonna be doing a number of programs on care part over the next year I joined us.

00:35:35.790 –> 00:35:47.280 Janet McCue: archives have been closed for such a long time, so you know, in the past year I haven’t been able to do any research in you know, in a remote location, other than my own personal library, or what I can find.

00:35:47.670 –> 00:35:58.800 Janet McCue: in a digital world but I’m looking forward to being done both that in western North Carolina and Tennessee because of their radar couch and blitz places.

00:35:59.730 –> 00:36:09.240 Joseph McElroy: So, in the meantime, this is what I want to, I want to learn more about I don’t know a lot about George masa and you will you bought the book and a documentary film about him.

00:36:09.360 –> 00:36:27.930 Janet McCue: Not not a documentary film I’m not a filmmaker but I’m collaborating with steel and Paul did an absolutely wonderful film on George masa in which you can find online through then mo so um I definitely recommend.

00:36:30.300 –> 00:36:34.680 Janet McCue: Watch his film if you’re at all interested in George masa.

00:36:35.970 –> 00:36:47.250 Janet McCue: Georgian and kept part I like to think of kept our words and and and mosses photos being you know just this dynamic collaboration.

00:36:48.270 –> 00:37:10.950 Janet McCue: For inviting people to get to know these monkeys to appreciate the beauty that was there, I mean that there weren’t you know the nation didn’t really know the smokies and in 1920 1930 they were a terra incognita and I think it was through carrots words and George mosses.

00:37:13.110 –> 00:37:20.160 Janet McCue: photos that people got to know, an area that you know became so beloved we, I mean.

00:37:20.190 –> 00:37:20.730 Joseph McElroy: This book.

00:37:20.850 –> 00:37:29.220 Janet McCue: As you mentioned it doesn’t have an entrance fee, but it has it’s the most heavily used National Park in the National Park system so.

00:37:29.910 –> 00:37:40.290 Janet McCue: People did discover it, but those early years people needed to know why it was worth being you know it, why it was worth protecting and that’s what I think both.

00:37:41.310 –> 00:37:43.560 Janet McCue: kept part and masa did.

00:37:43.800 –> 00:37:46.800 Joseph McElroy: Well wasn’t masa considered Angela Adam of the.

00:37:46.800 –> 00:37:47.490 Janet McCue: East yes.

00:37:47.850 –> 00:37:50.580 Janet McCue: Yes, he was, I mean he’s you know that.

00:37:50.880 –> 00:37:55.080 Janet McCue: and his photography is exquisite I mean he.

00:37:56.160 –> 00:38:01.890 Janet McCue: You know I actually pulled out a couple of quotes that I thought I might I might read.

00:38:04.080 –> 00:38:05.490 Janet McCue: Kephart himself said.

00:38:06.690 –> 00:38:07.110 That.

00:38:09.030 –> 00:38:16.110 Janet McCue: By judicious use of various Ray filters and an uncanny skill and time exposures he must.

00:38:16.380 –> 00:38:22.620 Janet McCue: has overcome the difficulties of haze and cloudy weather, which often Bach an amateur photographer and the smokies.

00:38:22.890 –> 00:38:35.370 Janet McCue: The result is a series of about 50 views of wild mountains and gorgeous deep forest naked crags trout streams and waterfalls camp scenes close-ups and blooming shrubs and wilderness wildflowers.

00:38:35.850 –> 00:38:44.940 Janet McCue: The like of which is not to be fun elsewhere in masses collection, you know I mean he is photography the so far above you know, a.

00:38:45.990 –> 00:38:47.850 Janet McCue: North Bay in our regular.

00:38:49.050 –> 00:38:50.460 Janet McCue: photographer that.

00:38:52.170 –> 00:39:05.640 Janet McCue: The head of the National Park association all kinds of people who had seen many, many photos of the smokies praised losses as being far and above any of those other.

00:39:06.270 –> 00:39:13.140 Joseph McElroy: didn’t hit what didn’t gem Carnegie see his photos and decided to give $5 million to the effort to create that.

00:39:13.200 –> 00:39:13.530 well.

00:39:15.300 –> 00:39:27.840 Janet McCue: You know I went to the Rockefeller aka archives and sleepy hollow and we couldn’t locate any of masses photos there, so he also had photos from Jim Thompson who was in Knoxville.

00:39:28.440 –> 00:39:35.970 Janet McCue: That um and you know Steve Camp is actually working on a book on Rockefeller now and maybe he’ll be able to.

00:39:36.210 –> 00:39:36.630 Take.

00:39:37.980 –> 00:39:38.850 Janet McCue: awesome photos but.

00:39:40.230 –> 00:39:54.450 Janet McCue: You know the camera, who was the associate director of the National Park Service at the time gathered all the photos that he could and took them to Rockefeller but we don’t know exactly which photos he took to John D Rockefeller jr.

00:39:54.720 –> 00:39:54.990 Janet McCue: But.

00:39:55.440 –> 00:39:58.950 Janet McCue: I think that was certainly an important element.

00:39:59.160 –> 00:40:01.200 Joseph McElroy: motors, or there.

00:40:01.560 –> 00:40:01.830 Janet McCue: yeah.

00:40:01.860 –> 00:40:13.170 Janet McCue: Masa did send a photo album to Coolidge he sent one to each of them to the Governor of North Carolina and the Governor of Tennessee so he can he did send Rockefellers photo we do have.

00:40:13.530 –> 00:40:27.570 Janet McCue: evidence that he sent a picture of Rockefeller to Rockefeller and we have Rockefellers’ response to him, so he was not shy about sharing the beauty of his photography so.

00:40:28.590 –> 00:40:39.300 Joseph McElroy: This is so interesting he was coming from Japan, and he never became an American citizen, but I guess, just as love this this this wilderness drove him to become such a.

00:40:39.660 –> 00:40:43.080 Janet McCue: Well, he wouldn’t have been allowed to be a citizen.

00:40:43.470 –> 00:40:44.010 Joseph McElroy: Right.

00:40:44.160 –> 00:40:46.020 Janet McCue: You know, and that time.

00:40:47.280 –> 00:41:00.210 Janet McCue: So he was an extraordinary amount of discrimination that and legislation that you know limited the number of people coming from Asian countries at that time.

00:41:00.930 –> 00:41:13.650 Janet McCue: So we don’t we know there’s a lot we don’t know about mouse’s early life we have pretty good documentation from 1915 to 1933 when he died.

00:41:14.970 –> 00:41:16.740 Janet McCue: But we know very little.

00:41:18.060 –> 00:41:19.320 Janet McCue: Yet about.

00:41:20.370 –> 00:41:34.950 Janet McCue: His early life, I mean we know he came to this country, you know, maybe and the 1910s maybe earlier, I mean we have some different information and different documents, where he lived where his family lived.

00:41:36.090 –> 00:41:42.210 Janet McCue: You know we’re still researching that area, Paul Paul bones still is, who.

00:41:43.980 –> 00:41:56.400 Janet McCue: I’m working with and in his film that his film which he did you know more than 15 years ago was on was called the mystery of George masa and.

00:41:56.910 –> 00:42:08.730 Janet McCue: The mysteries surrounding his his his early life, but he was remarkable to me, he was hired to work in the laundry room at the grove park in.

00:42:09.540 –> 00:42:29.370 Janet McCue: In 1915 five years later he established his own photography studio in Nashville and you know, he was photographing the Biltmore estates, he was all you know the Asheville City Hall high school, I mean all the important buildings.

00:42:30.840 –> 00:42:44.640 Janet McCue: That and all the important infrastructure that was being you know created and those boom years of Asheville some history, you know masa was the man on the spot, I actually watched a.

00:42:46.350 –> 00:42:56.370 Janet McCue: A Ripley’s, believe it or not, that that masa had done the I was you know was fun to see that I think was Warren or.

00:42:57.870 –> 00:42:58.710 Janet McCue: brothers that.

00:42:59.970 –> 00:43:00.630 Janet McCue: That had.

00:43:02.010 –> 00:43:08.310 Janet McCue: reissued the these these these old Ripley’s, believe it or not, one of them was.

00:43:08.490 –> 00:43:09.120 Joseph McElroy: The best your.

00:43:09.540 –> 00:43:10.080 Janet McCue: yeah yeah.

00:43:10.260 –> 00:43:17.940 Joseph McElroy: I love that they started in the hospitality industry in the mountains yeah yeah yeah the growth market is I mean that’s the.

00:43:18.240 –> 00:43:24.210 Joseph McElroy: that’s the premiere That was the premier place for presidents and a beautiful place.

00:43:25.050 –> 00:43:26.730 Joseph McElroy: Oh it’s absolutely gorgeous I.

00:43:27.210 –> 00:43:32.040 Janet McCue: know that my husband and I when we publish the book that was the first place, we went for dinner.

00:43:33.600 –> 00:43:43.440 Janet McCue: party and we did a tour of the girl parking and had dinner out in you know out on the patio was just absolutely beautiful.

00:43:43.710 –> 00:43:48.480 Joseph McElroy: Well, I look forward to taking the kids to see the gingerbread houses and Christmas.

00:43:50.280 –> 00:43:50.790 Beautiful.

00:43:54.270 –> 00:44:06.030 Janet McCue: On the third, I think it’s on the third floor they have a TV set up around you know digital box set up and they run continuously paul’s documentary so you can watch it up there.

00:44:06.060 –> 00:44:07.680 Janet McCue: Okay, take the girls.

00:44:08.640 –> 00:44:17.520 Joseph McElroy: There we go, so I when we come back you’ll tell us about a little bit more about your book and yeah what’s your future plans are okay.

00:44:17.730 –> 00:44:18.150 Janet McCue: Thank you.

00:44:25.980 –> 00:44:26.130 In.

00:46:02.370 –> 00:46:02.790 Unless.

00:46:36.630 –> 00:46:47.310 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin McElroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcasts and my guest Janet McCue and we’ve been talking about George masa you know.

00:46:47.910 –> 00:46:59.130 Joseph McElroy: When I was reading about George one of the stories of me tearing up was he you know he died at 45 and he could basically catch the flu right and.

00:46:59.850 –> 00:47:13.590 Joseph McElroy: And he couldn’t afford anything and they really get treated in the sanitarium where he died and in the great tragedies he really wanted to be buried next to kept part and he couldn’t afford it that’s sort of like sort of say.

00:47:14.880 –> 00:47:18.360 Janet McCue: yeah well you know, it was the middle of the depression, I mean.

00:47:18.990 –> 00:47:26.760 Janet McCue: You know photographer I’m trying to eke out a living in the middle of oppression can’t have been easy and.

00:47:28.290 –> 00:47:41.040 Janet McCue: You know, as it, as it turned out, I mean Kephart himself wasn’t buried in the smokies Kephart’s tombstone is embracing the city and he was also in a borrowed

00:47:41.790 –> 00:47:52.560 Janet McCue: lot I mean no one expected that he would die a car accident and also he was not a wealthy man and certainly neither was George Masa.

00:47:53.610 –> 00:48:10.920 Janet McCue: So it’s neither of them were actually buried in the smokies and in fact, the smokies policy was to you know, rightly so, was not to have only if you were a family member of an original family who lived in the smokies

00:48:11.280 –> 00:48:12.480 Janet McCue: Could you read their

00:48:14.400 –> 00:48:16.380 Joseph McElroy: Cities is a gateway to the smoky so.

00:48:17.130 –> 00:48:17.640 Janet McCue: that’s true.

00:48:18.060 –> 00:48:19.170 Joseph McElroy: That whole area is actually.

00:48:19.170 –> 00:48:22.680 Joseph McElroy: smoky mountains, I consider Haywood county smokey.

00:48:23.940 –> 00:48:25.230 Joseph McElroy: got the park me love it.

00:48:25.230 –> 00:48:38.790 Janet McCue: yeah well, while we’re talking about tombstones people were surprised to hear that in Ithaca and the ethic of city cemetery there’s a tombstone for Horace Kephart and for Laura his wife.

00:48:39.270 –> 00:48:44.310 Janet McCue: And there you know George is Kephart is buried embracing city, but.

00:48:45.390 –> 00:48:50.160 Janet McCue: Laura and in Horace, although they never lived together after 1908.

00:48:51.270 –> 00:49:02.580 Janet McCue: They remained married and Laura always said she wanted to be buried by Kephart two, so, in addition to George masa wanting to be buried by her.

00:49:04.050 –> 00:49:19.020 Janet McCue: LIFE to do so, it turns out, you know George George masa is part of the riverside’s cemetery has a walking tour and oh Henry is there, Thomas Wolfe is there on this walking tour, but so is George masa.

00:49:19.290 –> 00:49:19.860 Joseph McElroy: And you know.

00:49:21.480 –> 00:49:44.430 Janet McCue: Even, even though you know his the hiking club actually raised money to bury him and the hiking club raised money to erect a stone, this is the Carolina mountain club they raised the money to erect a stone in his honor and 20 years later, the petition, the government to name.

00:49:45.480 –> 00:49:54.750 Janet McCue: A peak after George masa you know so he like to think that, although he may have died penniless who did not die friendless he had.

00:49:55.260 –> 00:49:55.710 Joseph McElroy: And he didn’t.

00:49:56.430 –> 00:50:03.870 Joseph McElroy: He didn’t die for this guy anybody yeah that’s that sounds like you lived incredible wife, so what is your book about him coming out.

00:50:04.770 –> 00:50:20.340 Janet McCue: Well, we think 2023 we’ve had a big delay this past year because of our inability to do research but we’ve been working hard on all the parts that we could do research on Japan right now is having a bit of a.

00:50:21.840 –> 00:50:24.150 Janet McCue: the resurgence of code and you.

00:50:24.930 –> 00:50:34.320 Janet McCue: Know it’s difficult to do research in Japan as well, and the end that both Paul and I are committed to you know uncovering anything we can about his early life.

00:50:34.890 –> 00:50:35.790 Joseph McElroy: that’s a great thing.

00:50:37.590 –> 00:50:41.760 Janet McCue: So, but we’re hoping 2023 or the smokies thanks, for them.

00:50:42.330 –> 00:50:44.190 Joseph McElroy: Can I get a copy when it comes out.

00:50:44.250 –> 00:50:47.400 Joseph McElroy: Maybe maybe a debuted on my podcast.

00:50:52.140 –> 00:50:56.010 Joseph McElroy: cool and then I guess it could be sold through the great smoky mountains association.

00:50:57.810 –> 00:51:04.200 Joseph McElroy: Eventually Amazon so we’ll look for it I’ll be sure to mention it when it comes out and hopefully you’ll actually come on tell me about it.

00:51:05.070 –> 00:51:08.820 Joseph McElroy: So any other projects you’re working on that you’d like to share with us.

00:51:09.570 –> 00:51:14.340 Janet McCue: Well, the only project right now I’m working on is being a grandparent and waiting.

00:51:15.540 –> 00:51:26.130 Janet McCue: My son and daughter in law expecting a new child and the next week so I’m actually not in the finger Lakes area I’m in new Rochelle right now.

00:51:26.580 –> 00:51:38.160 Janet McCue: And I’m enjoying getting to know my 20-month-old grandson whom we haven’t seen for a long time so we’re trying to read learn our skills for babysitting so.

00:51:39.720 –> 00:51:40.680 Janet McCue: A real pleasure.

00:51:40.950 –> 00:51:44.820 Joseph McElroy: that’s good yeah I know I’m over the age of maybe.

00:51:45.900 –> 00:51:48.720 Joseph McElroy: I have almost three-year-old twins so.

00:51:49.890 –> 00:51:53.580 Joseph McElroy: I can give you some insights from daily interaction.

00:51:55.590 –> 00:51:58.080 Janet McCue: Well, even getting up at six o’clock is a challenge for me.

00:51:58.830 –> 00:52:02.850 Joseph McElroy: So, are there any people you want to mention to help you along the way, and your research or anything like that.

00:52:02.910 –> 00:52:19.260 Janet McCue: yeah that’s it that’s a really good start that’s a really good question Joseph because it’s you know we dedicated I dedicated this book to all the Librarians and archivists who have helped me along the way with my research, but then there is a countless number of people who.

00:52:21.000 –> 00:52:26.460 Janet McCue: You know who read the manuscript can wise and George Brazil.

00:52:27.180 –> 00:52:50.100 Janet McCue: John White who’s a filmmaker you know when you do a book, you know you know X, Y, and Z you don’t know a B and C very well so Raymond been I’m not a gun Smith I’m not I know very little about guns, but Raymond been helped us with that chapter, he was terrific john white who’s a.

00:52:51.330 –> 00:52:56.970 Janet McCue: filmmaker and has studied them stark love which cares part was a.

00:52:58.230 –> 00:53:00.900 Janet McCue: consultant on you know he read the chapter on.

00:53:02.040 –> 00:53:02.370 Janet McCue: On.

00:53:03.930 –> 00:53:15.840 Janet McCue: You know, on-camera work and start gloves so there were numerous people put me up for me, people who I didn’t even know, would you know, let me live with them for a month Chester and and and.

00:53:16.860 –> 00:53:35.010 Janet McCue: In his wife just you know to open their house to me, and it was you know extraordinary Bill Hart and Alice Heart, though one my heart because Bill has written the first article on George masa and he.

00:53:36.480 –> 00:53:51.300 Janet McCue: opened up his you know his collection of material to allow me to use it and they opened up a bedroom Alice you know, has a room that she’s designated Janet’s bedroom and you know, so there are.

00:53:52.620 –> 00:53:55.800 Joseph McElroy: A lot of people, so I want to thank you for being on my show.

00:53:56.580 –> 00:53:58.470 Joseph McElroy: You a real pleasure and.

00:53:58.770 –> 00:54:00.000 Having a conversation.

00:54:01.380 –> 00:54:06.330 Joseph McElroy: and we look forward to promoting your books and.

00:54:07.380 –> 00:54:10.230 Joseph McElroy: Things that you’re doing the future that I have to do my shoutouts.

00:54:12.720 –> 00:54:13.290 Janet McCue: To being here.

00:54:14.130 –> 00:54:17.070 Janet McCue: pleasure to talk with you and I’m gonna have to go look in the Rose gold some.

00:54:17.400 –> 00:54:19.020 Joseph McElroy: archive and find go.

00:54:20.700 –> 00:54:21.750 Janet McCue: For now, libraries.

00:54:23.100 –> 00:54:30.300 Joseph McElroy: So this podcast you can find gateways to the smokies dot five where you can find a newsletter you can subscribe to, to find out.

00:54:31.020 –> 00:54:43.950 Joseph McElroy: What upcoming events and podcasts are coming down the Pike and we will also feature their various books and things like that relevant to our guests.

00:54:44.400 –> 00:54:53.280 Joseph McElroy: Now I want you to imagine a place evocative of moodle course of the past, the modern environment, but the sheep Appalachian people place.

00:54:54.150 –> 00:55:05.700 Joseph McElroy: For adventure and for relaxation imagine a place, we can fish in the mountain heritage trout stream grill the catch on fire, accompanied by fine wine and craft beers.

00:55:06.090 –> 00:55:19.590 Joseph McElroy: Imagine a place where the old-time music and world cultures, so there is no other place like the Meadowlark motel in Maggie North Carolina your smoky mountain adventure starts, where you stay.

00:55:20.760 –> 00:55:30.540 Joseph McElroy: To find out about the smokies go to smokiesadventure.com which is an information resource

00:55:31.230 –> 00:55:46.110 Joseph McElroy: listing adventure outdoor activities that you can experience them our next week on this podcast we have been Leslie Hartley communications director, the Blue Ridge heritage area who talk about Blue Ridge culture which the smoky mountains, as part of.

00:55:47.130 –> 00:55:52.110 Joseph McElroy: I want to give a shout-out to this network that we are part of talkradio. nyc

00:55:53.130 –> 00:56:07.590 Joseph McElroy: It is a podcast network with lots of shows live shows the one after this is about New York, so you can go from the mountains to most urban areas in the country and get really wonderful.

00:56:08.070 –> 00:56:26.520 Joseph McElroy: Broad experience of life in the United States as talk-radio. nyc and I look forward to talking to you next week on it’s always on Tuesdays from 6 to 7 pm and I want to thank my guests again with you and we’ll see you next time.

Our guest in this episode is David Brewin, his career path took him towards the academic world where he worked for several years as a teacher and counselor while learning metalwork and playing music in his spare time. 

Brewin lived in challenging conditions while further honing his skills apprenticing under some of the most iconic metal works in the southern Appalachians. But his hard work paid off and resulted in a successful career of more than four decades that continues still today. He found immediate success and further enhanced his career by creating functional custom metal artwork for scores of wealthy clients throughout WNC. 

His client list includes a former member of the legendary rock band AC/DC. Today Brewin continues his award-winning work with a younger business partner whose skills complement each other perfectly.

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Tune in for this fun conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.

Joseph begins today’s episode by talking to Mike Ogletree about all their new work at the Meadowlark Smoky Mountain Heritage Center. Bob talks about events coming up that will display and celebrate the different cultures in the mountains. Such as the upcoming one where a musician will be coming in for the day, seminars will be given throughout the day, and there will be a concert at night. Joseph introduces today’s guest, David Brewin, and David discusses his upbringing. The two discuss David’s experience going to college with a baseball hall of Famer. The two continue sharing anecdotes about their college experiences and connections to baseball players. David talks about how he started his career in counseling and his journey into blacksmithing and metalwork. Not only is David an accomplished blacksmith, but he also plays guitar. He discusses the initiative he took in learning classical guitar, seeking out an instructor. He eventually dropped the classical genre though, realizing it was not for him, but he continues to play jazz guitar.

Coming back from the break, Joseph shares his experience of transitioning from his successful career to something he enjoyed more, relating it to David’s experience. David discusses the inspiration behind leaving a successful job to pursue metalwork, citing experiences he had talking to residents throughout the mountains. Unhappy with the direction of education at the time, David decided to educate himself more and request a position as a blacksmith teacher at a school in the mountains. He shares a funny anecdote in which he was in a gallery talking about blacksmithing and was asked if he knew who David Brewin was. The man who asked had not met him directly, but this man, Earl, eventually helped him in his career. He took a workshop with Frances Whitaker, an accomplished blacksmith. After this first workshop, he went to another, eventually befriending Frances and apprenticing for him. He leveraged this opportunity and experience he gained by bringing top blacksmiths into his class to give lectures. These guest lecturers were big influences on David and helped him get better at his craft. He continues on to discuss experiences he’s had jamming with mountain musicians. While the two may seem unrelated, he brings them together through the lens of the influence they’ve had on his life and the view of the mountains he has. Joseph brings all of this together, asking what is the best advice David feels he has taken from these mentors. In discussing advice he’s been given, David relates it to his career and talks about learning from those around him regardless of age. More specifically, an apprentice he has taken recently. He sees passing his knowledge on as his duty as he gained all of it from those before him who were kind enough to impart their wisdom to him.

Joseph asks David to talk about some of the famous schools he has worked at. David starts off by talking about a folk school in the mountains that used a Danish model of teaching. He talks more about these schools, discussing a blacksmith who moved down from New York to teach at the folk school and how eventually David taught blacksmithing there. After the folk school, David moved on to the Foxfire school, starting their blacksmithing program. The two discuss Brasstown and a story of how it almost flooded. Joseph talks about the local feelings in towns like this, sharing a story where he heard live music at a flea market. David credits much of his skill and his craft to the people he met throughout his life and educational journey. He discusses his experience working at the Western North Carolina University, taking on many roles in their museum. He worked there for many years until during the 90s he returned to blacksmithing. He talks about coordinating part of the mountain heritage festival, sharing stories about some of the people he had come to the festival.

Moving into the final segment, Joseph directs the conversation toward David’s metalwork. David talks about some of the more famous clients he has had and the work he has done for them. After discussing these clients, David talks about ideas he has for his future work, seeking to continue his metalwork and working with his apprentice. Joseph ends the episode by sharing resources and thanking David for joining him on today’s episode.

Our guest in this episode is Libby Kephart Hargrave, she is an accomplished musician as well as a film documentarian. Her primary focus in recent years has been perpetuating the legacy of her great-grandfather Horace Kephart whose story still pulls an undercurrent through the Smoky Mountains. Kephart is acclaimed as the father of the Great Smoky Mountains National Park, an outdoorsman gifted with an adventurous soul, and the author of such staples of regional literature as Our Southern Highlanders and Camping and Woodcraft.

‍

Tune in for this fun conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.

Joseph starts tonight’s episode by introducing today's topic, the legacy of Horace Kephart. Joseph shares some exciting news, the park is working to reopen much of its operations in the near future. He introduces today’s guest, Libby Kephart Hargrave, great-granddaughter of Horace Kephart. Libby talks about her experience in music and theater. She sings a song she wrote about Horace for a documentary she did. Horace worked tirelessly to keep the library in shape while also maintaining his family life. Libby shares an anecdote about an experience Horace had in a cyclone. This led him to write a suicide note, but he was saved by a policeman. This led to him going to the Smokies to heal. He separated from his wife, but never legally divorced. Libby talks about the importance Horace has to her. Joseph and Libby move on to discussing the freshness they feel in the mountains.

Coming back from the break, Joseph asks Libby to talk about an unlikely friendship Horace had. Libby talks about the lasting impact his writing has had and the lessons she has taken from him. These lessons are international, with much of her website's audience coming from Japan. His influence in helping to create the national park lies mainly in his passion, his desire to save the land came through in his writing and he visited Washington to advocate for it. Libby made a book from manuscripts passed down in the family and published it with the Great Smoky Mountains Association. To celebrate her great-grandfather, Libby started Horace Kephart Day which is an annual event she holds. She discusses speakers she has had come to the event throughout the year. Moving on she talks about experiences hiking and camping with her family in sites with Kephart history. She talks about the healing powers of the mountains and the idea that the element that heals can be different for everyone. Joseph recounts an experience where he felt healed and happy because of the mountains.

Joseph talks about the donations the Kephart family has made. Libby discusses letters Horace wrote that are displayed at Western Carolina University. On top of letters, things such as Horace’s wife’s wedding ensemble were donated. Libby talks about a knife she received as a gift. She discusses the documentary she made with Ken Burns about Horace’s life and story. Celebrating his 150th birthday Libby made a play about Horace’s story and got in touch with Ken to help with that before reaching out to get him involved in the documentary. The documentary discusses him from both a family and a historic point of view. The two discuss more the reasons why his writing is still prevalent today. A lot of this is due to the humor he incorporated. Libby talks about other books written by and about Horace.

Horace wasn’t the only explorer in the family though. Libby’s uncle Leonard was also a great explorer, he was in fact the first American to hike Mount Kilimanjaro. Libby talks about the people she surrounds herself with in preserving her family’s legacy. Looking through Leonard’s stuff that her aunt gave her, Libby found some journals of his. She talks about going through these journals in order to help with an upcoming documentary about Leonard. She moves on to share resources where the audience can reach her as well as upcoming projects she has, such as her return to singing.

Our guest is Butch Mcdade, he is a retired Ranger with the National Park Service who now lives in East Tennessee. He has worked all over the nation at some of the most beautiful National Parks in America but finished up his career working in the GSMNP where his Field School Programs have been extremely popular. He still conducts them as a part-time employee in retirement. He is an avid hiker and knows the park like the back of his hand and is an accomplished guide. Butch is also a fine writer, having written multiple feature articles for well-known magazines.

The Smoky Mountain Field School enhances appreciation, understanding, and stewardship of Great Smoky Mountains National Park and the natural world while promoting the idea of learning as a joyful and enriching part of life. From indoor workshops to outdoor field adventures, there are over 80 workshops and programs covering topics such as wildlife, wildflowers, forests, history, and hiking to name just a few!

‍

Tune in for this fun conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.

Joseph starts the episode off by discussing children’s literacy. He discusses two programs, one of which is the storybook trail of the Smokies, which allows visitors to experience a Smokies-themed book while on trails. It allows young readers to bring the book to life by experiencing the book in the mountains. The other program is Dolly Parton’s Imagination Library. She started the program after being inspired by her childhood. Joseph introduces today’s guest, Butch Mcdade, a retired park ranger. Butch talks about the parks in which he worked throughout his over 30-year-long career. Living in Chattanooga Butch applied for his first full-time job in a park at the Chattanooga Military Park. Butch continues on, walking the audience through more of his career and more parks he has worked in both in and outside the Smokies. He always saw the Smokies as his mountains though, so they were where he ended up. The two discuss the trails in the Smokies, expounding on the wide varieties of trails in the park, with something for everyone. Butch worked in a visitor center just outside of Gatlinburg for his whole time working in the Smokies.

Coming back from the break, Butch talks about the reason why he ended up back in the Smokies. Besides having been where he grew up, he likes that there is always something new to learn and see in the Smokies. Joseph asks Butch to discuss some of his favorite trails and hikes in the mountains. After discussing his favorite trails, Butch gives his best recommendations for tourists if they only have one day in the park. The two dive further into these locations, discussing the differences between some of the spots on weekdays versus weekends. Butch discusses his involvement with the Smoky Mountains Field School. The goal of the school is to bring people into the park and teach them the history of the park, science, and more. Butch discusses hikes he has and will lead with the school.

Butch discusses some of the areas and mountains surrounding the Smokies. The pair move on to discuss preparation for the park. Joseph talks about one of his favorite places in the park, slide rock. Joseph asks Butch to talk about some of his favorite things to do in the park outside of hiking as well as some of his favorite towns. Butch enjoys biking but warns to stay off main roads as this can be dangerous. Butch has written many books and articles, many of which are about the Smokies. He discusses the content of these books, one of which is about artists in the mountains. He dives deeper into these artists and recommends some of their work. Not only are his books about the Smokies, but he contributed to one about the Appalachians.

Moving into the last section of today’s episode, Joseph asks Butch about an article he was a part of. Butch describes this article which discusses a missing child and the rangers who helped her sister find his grave. Butch discusses some of his other experiences, both hikes and other articles he has written. He is a contributing writer to many different magazines and publishers. Butch shares resources he has and places where people can find his books. Joseph ends the episode by thanking Butch for coming on today and sharing his own resources and sponsors.

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00:00:32.760 –> 00:00:38.100 Joseph McElroy: howdy thanks for joining us on this week’s episode of gateway to the smokies.

00:00:38.580 –> 00:00:46.560 Joseph McElroy: This podcast is about America’s most visited National Park, the great smoky mountains national park, and surrounding towns.

00:00:46.890 –> 00:00:57.000 Joseph McElroy: This area’s filled with ancient natural beauty a deep storied history and rich mountain cultures that we explore with weekly episodes.

00:00:57.390 –> 00:01:07.830 Joseph McElroy: I am Joseph Franklin McElroy man of the world, but also the deep roots in these mountains My family has lived in the great smokies for over 200 years.

00:01:08.220 –> 00:01:14.460 Joseph McElroy: My business is in travel, but my heart is in the mountains of smoky mountains of North Carolina.

00:01:15.180 –> 00:01:24.060 Joseph McElroy: Today we’re going to learn about the National Park from an actual park ranger but first I will give you a little insight and some children that you see here in the mountains.

00:01:24.900 –> 00:01:29.100 Joseph McElroy: So some of you might know that I have two-year-old twins I think I mentioned that last week.

00:01:29.490 –> 00:01:37.770 Joseph McElroy: And, but this is my second rodeo so I also have a 28-year-old son so I’ve you know, had a little bit of experience of bringing kids in the smoky mountains.

00:01:38.550 –> 00:01:48.960 Joseph McElroy: But that’s another story right now for my twins I’m looking for interesting programs to have fun and educate them as well you know a lot of things were closed last year, but things are starting to.

00:01:49.950 –> 00:01:57.540 Joseph McElroy: Open up and that spirit, I have two programs to tell you about and one of them was already experienced and what I’m anticipating the experience.

00:01:58.620 –> 00:02:05.760 Joseph McElroy: The great smoky mountains National Park in partnership with the University of Tennessee extension Institute of agriculture.

00:02:06.120 –> 00:02:14.310 Joseph McElroy: And, as well as the great smoky mountains association is pleased to invite visitors to experience this story book trail of the smokies.

00:02:15.150 –> 00:02:25.560 Joseph McElroy: it’s an addition of an initiative dedicated to promoting literacy in nature, visitors will have the opportunity to experience the smokies theme book.

00:02:26.100 –> 00:02:35.250 Joseph McElroy: To trail size activities and on the trail story pages to read along the one mile cosby nature trail near the cosmic CAFE.

00:02:36.090 –> 00:02:41.880 Joseph McElroy: It began April 3 but it goes through may 30 and it also comes back in the fall.

00:02:42.870 –> 00:02:58.710 Joseph McElroy: or attended caches cast as an it’s an immersive pro approach for young readers to experience the stories of the smokies in a way that brings them to life on the trail over the this eight week period for different books will be highlighted, for two weeks two week periods.

00:02:59.070 –> 00:03:00.300 Joseph McElroy: Long the nature trail.

00:03:00.540 –> 00:03:07.680 Joseph McElroy: Each of the books aimed at various reading levels will be accompanied by educational prompts to encourage interaction with the trail.

00:03:08.370 –> 00:03:12.510 Joseph McElroy: The storybook trails free to the public and accessible, seven days a week.

00:03:13.230 –> 00:03:25.470 Joseph McElroy: The Spring books lineups include seeing creek by Morgan simmons which is may 1 the 14th and the troublesome cub by Lisa Lisa horseman which is forced to man, which is may 15 through 30th.

00:03:25.860 –> 00:03:32.520 Joseph McElroy: On the first Saturday of each books rotation, the author will be President at the trailhead interact with the participants.

00:03:32.940 –> 00:03:47.940 Joseph McElroy: We are going to be here in North Carolina at that time and i’m going to take my kids to one of those I think, as long as my wife agrees, I think she will another great program we participate in for a couple years is Dolly parton’s imagination library.

00:03:49.230 –> 00:03:57.570 Joseph McElroy: And it’s dedicated to inspire love of reading by gifting books, free of charge the children’s from bit birthday from birth to age five.

00:03:58.590 –> 00:04:07.290 Joseph McElroy: Inspired by her father’s inability to read and write Donna started her imagination library in 1995 for the children within the smoky mountain region.

00:04:07.890 –> 00:04:15.780 Joseph McElroy: To pay her program spans five country and gifts over 1 million free books each month of children around the world.

00:04:16.350 –> 00:04:24.720 Joseph McElroy: Dolly said she was inspired by our childhood, she said when I was growing up in the hills of East Tennessee I knew my dreams my dreams have come true.

00:04:25.230 –> 00:04:36.300 Joseph McElroy: I know there are children in their community with their own dreams, they dream of becoming a doctor or adventure or minister who knows, maybe there’s a little girl, whose dream is to be a writer and singer.

00:04:36.960 –> 00:04:45.870 Joseph McElroy: The seeds of these dreams are often thousand books and those seeds can help you plant in your community that you helped plant in your community can grow across the world.

00:04:46.320 –> 00:04:50.430 Joseph McElroy: They are fine books they’re beautiful we get them and then we give them to.

00:04:50.850 –> 00:05:01.260 Joseph McElroy: After our kids are looked at in and we’ve made sure, make sure they keep them in pristine shape we give them to other children who pass them around it’s a wonderful Program.

00:05:02.220 –> 00:05:09.300 Joseph McElroy: So somebody knows about wonderful programs is my guest today author Arthur books mcdaid.

00:05:09.930 –> 00:05:21.720 Joseph McElroy: The day he’s known as books, I think, and he’s a retired park a park ranger with the national park service is worked at many of our national parks and finished up his career working at the.

00:05:22.350 –> 00:05:30.930 Joseph McElroy: Great smoky National Park where’s field school programs have been extremely popular he still connects them as a part time employee employee in retirement.

00:05:31.380 –> 00:05:39.810 Joseph McElroy: He is an author and he’s an avid hiker who knows the heart and Park, like the back of his hand and he is an accomplished guy Hello butch.

00:05:40.500 –> 00:05:42.180 Butch Mcdade: hello, Joseph are you doing today.

00:05:42.780 –> 00:05:43.830 Joseph McElroy: i’m doing pretty good.

00:05:44.850 –> 00:05:52.590 Joseph McElroy: it’s a beautiful day out there, that I have, I have a beautiful backdrop of mine is as a as an image yours is live.

00:05:54.240 –> 00:05:55.290 Joseph McElroy: that’s pretty Nice.

00:05:55.740 –> 00:05:58.530 Butch Mcdade: yeah the smokies way out there, the foothills I guess you’d say.

00:06:00.060 –> 00:06:09.750 Joseph McElroy: To me this book is it’s a beautiful view, though, so you’re retired ranger the park service, can you tell us what’s park for you work where you work for how long.

00:06:10.350 –> 00:06:18.180 Butch Mcdade: yeah yeah I started I got 30 years and they’re used to not have this Gray beard but after 30 years I got a great beer.

00:06:18.180 –> 00:06:18.780 Butch Mcdade: So I guess there.

00:06:19.140 –> 00:06:28.290 Butch Mcdade: are no ranger but I started Joseph down around chattanooga Tennessee have a permanent job i’m a native of nashville Tennessee over there and middle Tennessee.

00:06:29.250 –> 00:06:35.340 Butch Mcdade: And my parents had taken me to the smokies a number of times and we’d also gone to mammoth cave I think Kentucky.

00:06:35.820 –> 00:06:47.250 Butch Mcdade: And there was a civil war battlefields around nashville so I kind of grew up with go into these places, often with my parents on special occasions, so I got a chance, when I was living in chattanooga.

00:06:48.450 –> 00:06:58.260 Butch Mcdade: To apply for a job down at a battlefield called chicken maga and chattanooga national military park it’s a civil war battlefield big place.

00:06:58.860 –> 00:07:04.440 Butch Mcdade: And I spent five years there another five years up on lookout mountain, which is a part of that battlefield.

00:07:04.740 –> 00:07:13.770 Butch Mcdade: and actually before that, before I got that permanent job I worked one summer out in glacier National Park in Montana, which was incredible.

00:07:14.340 –> 00:07:25.140 Butch Mcdade: Here I am a Tennessee boy i’ve only seen the smoky which are great i’ve only seen black bears which are great, but you ought to Montana, you got the by God rocky mountains and you have grizzly bears.

00:07:27.000 –> 00:07:37.950 Butch Mcdade: I mean certainly different and, of course, when you get out there, they look nice Rangers you know give you some safety information and they stress on now, this is grizzly country you know you gotta be careful and i’m a solo hiker.

00:07:39.090 –> 00:07:50.280 Butch Mcdade: hike most of the time alone, probably shouldn’t, but I do, and so I was alone, a glacier for much of the time and but never had a problem be honest with you, and so I kind of dispel that image that.

00:07:50.760 –> 00:07:59.760 Butch Mcdade: there’s a big bad grizzly bear waiting to kill every every tourist it comes to glacier yellowstone doesn’t happen very, very rarely.

00:08:02.370 –> 00:08:03.270 Joseph McElroy: Very rarely.

00:08:03.570 –> 00:08:03.990 Rarely.

00:08:05.010 –> 00:08:16.680 Butch Mcdade: But anyway, I did started chicken maga down in chattanooga area North Georgia and chattanooga and enjoy talking about history, I think, history will be here in college so.

00:08:17.370 –> 00:08:29.340 Butch Mcdade: I enjoy that but my heart was really in some of the green areas I did spend another couple of years over at shiloh battlefield, which is in West of nashville and from there.

00:08:29.940 –> 00:08:46.560 Butch Mcdade: I went up to a place Joseph on the Cumberland plateau of Tennessee and Kentucky a place called the big South fork national river and recreation area, it is a national park service side, but it was a recreation area and rick.

00:08:53.370 –> 00:08:54.480 Joseph McElroy: you’re coming through.

00:08:58.680 –> 00:09:10.350 Butch Mcdade: yeah so this place was is part of the national park service and Rangers and other people staff it just like to do in the smokies, but it is a recreation area, which means they allow hunting and fishing.

00:09:10.590 –> 00:09:15.390 Butch Mcdade: And off road vehicles which aren’t allowed in the smokies but other than that it was a lovely area undeveloped.

00:09:16.800 –> 00:09:31.860 Butch Mcdade: got about 900,000 visitors a year versus not 12 million to come to the smoky so there was a lot of solitude up there, and while there, I wrote a book about that area for the University of Tennessee press if you don’t mind me showing it.

00:09:31.920 –> 00:09:32.820 Joseph McElroy: Though before.

00:09:33.210 –> 00:09:45.960 Butch Mcdade: The national natural arches of the big South fourth they mounted about 20 years ago on the natural features, the sandstone Archer that was fun to do on my own time and.

00:09:46.740 –> 00:09:54.570 Butch Mcdade: I got University of Tennessee press to publish that and so that was that’s an area that’s dear to my heart that area up on the cover photo it’s so different than the.

00:09:55.230 –> 00:10:07.710 Butch Mcdade: appalachian mountains coming plateau is a land of plateaus and and gorgeous or the smokies you have a land of valleys and mountains so they’re.

00:10:08.160 –> 00:10:18.690 Butch Mcdade: Saying and then from there from the big South fork I went down to a place still in Tennessee called the old bed wild and scenic river, which is north of knoxville I don’t know.

00:10:19.800 –> 00:10:31.680 Butch Mcdade: Again, near the Kentucky border generally and from there after about five or six years, I have to go to the smokies which one it was my destination park being a Tennessee and i’ve always thought the smokies where my mountains.

00:10:32.010 –> 00:10:32.490 Butch Mcdade: I spent.

00:10:32.820 –> 00:10:44.100 Butch Mcdade: My near my parents brought me here and I live here now, I am a Tennessee, and so this is my these are my home mountains and i’m married to a girl for lady from knoxville, and so we love it here.

00:10:44.670 –> 00:10:49.140 Joseph McElroy: And that was the smokies your favorite place to work, why do you why is it decide to be in your hometown.

00:10:49.680 –> 00:10:57.930 Butch Mcdade: yeah yeah so it was a great place, I always wanted it because you can get everything you got the different country attractions, you know, if you like, to the.

00:10:58.260 –> 00:11:06.900 Butch Mcdade: places to go to to eat and have residences and lodging, but you can find wilderness to other people say oh you can’t find wilderness in the smoky So yes, you can.

00:11:07.110 –> 00:11:14.430 Butch Mcdade: Just don’t go right to the Center of it go the edges go to the periphery lot of back country there and I like that back conquer and even if you’re not a.

00:11:15.030 –> 00:11:24.480 Butch Mcdade: aggressive hiker there are a lot of little small heights you can take any hike you can only you can make it as hard as you want, you can go in and a hard hike for amount turn back, are you going on a hard.

00:11:25.080 –> 00:11:38.340 Butch Mcdade: trail for 10 miles people can find their own niche in our national parks in the smokies even with all the people still has a lot of solitude in addition to all the other elements that we want in life or need in life.

00:11:38.850 –> 00:11:45.000 Joseph McElroy: Right, there is a lot of back countries still in the back country capital campaign and things like that right, the smokies.

00:11:45.240 –> 00:11:56.310 Butch Mcdade: Oh yeah yeah yeah that about 150 trails 900 miles you count everything, including and maintain trails lots of stuff some some of the trails are flat.

00:11:56.820 –> 00:12:02.820 Butch Mcdade: Like the little river trail for a while, you can go in, as far as you want to when he starts going up he’ll turn back on your own niche.

00:12:03.240 –> 00:12:09.330 Butch Mcdade: will be in shape I always tell people to be in shape hike with other people don’t go alone or let somebody know where you’re going.

00:12:09.780 –> 00:12:19.530 Butch Mcdade: But if you if you follow those few safety rules which are common sense, let somebody know where you’re going to be in shape, have the right equipment you’ll love it and that’s why.

00:12:20.550 –> 00:12:21.240 Butch Mcdade: it’s free.

00:12:21.480 –> 00:12:21.810 Butch Mcdade: there’s no.

00:12:22.860 –> 00:12:26.070 Joseph McElroy: I feel like the only national park that doesn’t charge admission right.

00:12:26.430 –> 00:12:39.360 Butch Mcdade: Right yeah it’s a full scale National Park very rare no admission fee and that that’s been that’s been with the smokies ever since its inception in 1934.

00:12:39.870 –> 00:12:41.940 Joseph McElroy: And how long did you work for the great smoky.

00:12:43.530 –> 00:12:44.760 Butch Mcdade: Five years of my career.

00:12:45.240 –> 00:12:58.080 Butch Mcdade: yeah five years yeah yeah i’m 2005 up to 2010 but I hadn’t visited here, of course, since the 1950s my parents, I have pictures of us being.

00:12:58.560 –> 00:13:10.530 Butch Mcdade: up with a picture of the chimney tops behind us in about 1955 or six somebody coming up here for decades, but made it unfortunately to my last stop on a 30 year career.

00:13:11.190 –> 00:13:18.810 Joseph McElroy: Now there’s multiple you know facilities in the park right did you work at all of them or did you have one that you were associated with.

00:13:19.410 –> 00:13:24.570 Butch Mcdade: Now I say you pretty much at the sugar land visitor Center which is right there outside of not gatlinburg.

00:13:25.740 –> 00:13:30.240 Butch Mcdade: south of gatlinburg to me we call it, you know there’s no one main visitor Center, but it certainly was.

00:13:31.170 –> 00:13:45.960 Butch Mcdade: Had the biggest visitation there’s another one over it, oh con lefty and a smaller one out in kate’s co but I was at your sugars visitor Center my whole time which gets a lot of us, you know it gets a lot of us me and your gatlinburg.

00:13:46.380 –> 00:13:51.750 Joseph McElroy: So we will be a great smokies National Park, made the mistake of making gatlinburg the main entrance.

00:13:51.750 –> 00:13:54.270 Joseph McElroy: Right, it should have been in near Maggie Valley, I think, but.

00:13:57.180 –> 00:13:59.610 Butch Mcdade: i’ll let you i’ll let you have that comment.

00:14:00.600 –> 00:14:02.520 Joseph McElroy: That would be my argument to win right.

00:14:05.610 –> 00:14:12.450 Joseph McElroy: Well, we come back we’ll talk about more about the national parks and what you’ve done there what you know all right.

00:14:12.780 –> 00:14:14.730 Butch Mcdade: every section of the park is fabulous.

00:17:13.920 –> 00:17:25.650 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin McElroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcast and my guest butch mcdade Hello books so.

00:17:26.820 –> 00:17:36.180 Joseph McElroy: I wanted to ask you, after you spent 30 years in the park service last five of this was with the great smoky mountains National Park.

00:17:36.630 –> 00:17:46.440 Joseph McElroy: So you decided to retire, and you decided to live in East Tennessee but you could have been anywhere because he’d been traveling around a lot, why did you decide to stay in East Tennessee near the smoke you.

00:17:47.610 –> 00:17:55.620 Butch Mcdade: Know it’s so great it’s someplace I want to write about what I still you know I always tell people, you can learn something about the smokies.

00:17:56.070 –> 00:18:01.620 Butch Mcdade: All the time you never find out everything so having an interest in the smokies way back.

00:18:02.220 –> 00:18:08.670 Butch Mcdade: You think, by now, you know it all are kind of have a grasp, but every time you find something to like they find new species.

00:18:09.510 –> 00:18:18.840 Butch Mcdade: You find new historical facts but it’s home, I have a tendency and by birth, then, as I said earlier, i’ve always thought the smoky mountains.

00:18:19.410 –> 00:18:33.210 Butch Mcdade: or my balance my mountains, I love the Rockies gotcha nothing more spectacular than the Rockies or the Sierra Nevada it’s out West but these are home mounts I think everybody has to have a home range, and this is my home range.

00:18:33.810 –> 00:18:36.930 Joseph McElroy: There you go that’s my home range too, so we got something in common.

00:18:39.270 –> 00:18:50.580 Joseph McElroy: So um you know we I had a section on hiking, but I want to know from manage lived there, what are some of your favorite trails and places in the great smoky mountains National Park.

00:18:51.420 –> 00:19:02.430 Butch Mcdade: Now hello, the appalachian trail I, like any of the high country mount look on chimneys clemens Dome anything along the high country I love.

00:19:02.820 –> 00:19:11.220 Butch Mcdade: I love all the park, so you have to start out sometimes the low country to get up there, but boy once you get to 5000 foot level and above.

00:19:11.790 –> 00:19:31.200 Butch Mcdade: Joe says it’s so different person record a lot cooler up there’s hardly gets over about 8 million in December, when was 95 down here and edge of the smokers, you might be, you know upper 70s, or low 80s, I was in high cost of smoking so i’m really prone to love the high country.

00:19:32.220 –> 00:19:42.420 Butch Mcdade: Fortunately, the smokies you know there’s a couple sheet routes or you can grow right up the newfound gap and be at 5000 feet you don’t have to slug up at a valley and you can grab up to clean was.

00:19:43.440 –> 00:19:44.700 Butch Mcdade: She kind of parsing start on.

00:19:45.720 –> 00:19:48.660 Butch Mcdade: A weekend and you’re already hi there still.

00:19:50.070 –> 00:19:52.110 Butch Mcdade: People I say once you get up there is a flat.

00:19:55.350 –> 00:20:04.920 Butch Mcdade: top of the mountain there’s undulations nothing yeah nothing there’s no real plants that stretch to go run very far in the smokies unless its way down and then.

00:20:05.280 –> 00:20:14.820 Butch Mcdade: The lower elevations so i’m prone to the appalachian trail with trail up, to say the chimney the trailer all the five trails up the mountain because.

00:20:15.870 –> 00:20:21.000 Butch Mcdade: growing up to cleveland’s going out on the appalachian trail either West or.

00:20:22.320 –> 00:20:34.170 Butch Mcdade: East you just can’t beat the high country plus I love kate’s go the beauty of that valley What a beautiful place and cat lucci on your side of the mountain to that beautiful Valley.

00:20:35.280 –> 00:20:35.700 Butch Mcdade: catalog.

00:20:36.780 –> 00:20:42.660 Joseph McElroy: If you had if you had advice for a tourist This shows you know also trying to attract tourists.

00:20:43.980 –> 00:20:50.220 Joseph McElroy: And they were wanting to have, and they were in for a weekend and they had one day what would you recommend they do.

00:20:51.660 –> 00:20:57.300 Butch Mcdade: Well, in the old days arrangers where I sell people you got to see a claim as Dome you gotta see canes Co.

00:20:57.840 –> 00:21:08.940 Butch Mcdade: And in the old days I need y’all to go over to the cherokee Indian reservation all those are great ideas and great destinations I would tell people, those are great destinations don’t go on a weekend.

00:21:09.390 –> 00:21:14.520 Butch Mcdade: don’t go on Saturday and Sunday, to be a lot of people there, try to get a Tuesday trip into.

00:21:15.000 –> 00:21:26.820 Butch Mcdade: Kato try to get a Tuesday drive up to cleveland’s Dome and get early to and you’ll enjoy it, so I still like those big destination places, even though they every lots of people go there.

00:21:27.240 –> 00:21:32.820 Butch Mcdade: Why not why wouldn’t we why why wouldn’t we tell a visitor go to the to get the great view at the top of.

00:21:33.930 –> 00:21:39.540 Butch Mcdade: A milestone, why not tell us in on the case co you just have to plan that some days are going to be busy.

00:21:40.020 –> 00:21:48.360 Butch Mcdade: The way to talk like noon is always going to be busy you get out there right when you know daybreak when they open up kate’s glow cold, except on the days when they close it for bikes.

00:21:49.980 –> 00:21:59.430 Butch Mcdade: And do a week day trip you’ll find that, with a little patience and that’s one thing about all of our national parks i’ve been to the grand tetons i’ve been to yellowstone and they were.

00:22:00.690 –> 00:22:02.220 Butch Mcdade: backed up cars.

00:22:02.460 –> 00:22:02.880 Butch Mcdade: it’s not.

00:22:03.240 –> 00:22:13.770 Butch Mcdade: too big to the smokies these basically places are our national traders sure people are going to come there just try to play in it on a day when they be less people and get an early start.

00:22:14.250 –> 00:22:18.210 Joseph McElroy: Is there any is there anything on a Saturday that you think would be.

00:22:20.220 –> 00:22:23.700 Joseph McElroy: Less traveled it’d be worthwhile with you and say go see this.

00:22:24.300 –> 00:22:34.200 Butch Mcdade: yeah there’s still some place i’d go to cause beyond the Tennessee side cosby facility or cosby there’s some trails are like the hidden waterfalls and and other trails.

00:22:34.740 –> 00:22:46.560 Butch Mcdade: And i’d go over to big creek on your side, I take a trip into cattle Luciano on maybe on a Saturday that road that grandma rogen there doesn’t get as crowded, but even then get an early start.

00:22:47.730 –> 00:22:55.020 Butch Mcdade: i’d go into places like if you make it go all the way over to 20 mile My point is go to the periphery of the park.

00:22:55.440 –> 00:23:05.400 Butch Mcdade: Right ages and do a little map study it’s your facts, you know learn your routes and go with a group of people, but i’d never shy away from saying don’t come there on a Saturday.

00:23:05.880 –> 00:23:14.760 Butch Mcdade: I wouldn’t do to some of the more popular spots on a Saturday, because there’d be lots more people and the quality of visit might suffer.

00:23:15.420 –> 00:23:29.490 Butch Mcdade: But, are you can do if that’s all you can do a Saturday to go to where you want to go just be patient always come to the smokies and all our national parks with patients on your side and you’ll enjoy it so.

00:23:29.550 –> 00:23:30.060 You.

00:23:31.110 –> 00:23:37.080 Joseph McElroy: You have been involved with a smoky mountain field school field, sport, so you can you tell us about that.

00:23:37.680 –> 00:23:50.310 Butch Mcdade: yeah yeah sure yeah probably had about a 12 year relationship with the University of tennessee’s smoky mountain fields go they started that school back in 1975 so that’s been around a while.

00:23:51.030 –> 00:24:00.270 Butch Mcdade: and its goal is to bring people into the smokies with knowledgeable guides who would discuss the history of the of the smokies and the southern appalachian.

00:24:01.620 –> 00:24:13.950 Butch Mcdade: They will discuss the natural history in the human history they’ll discover some places of historic value and scenic views talk about science in the park, it is very.

00:24:14.850 –> 00:24:25.950 Butch Mcdade: It is a classroom and assets, a field school and they’ve been true to that ever since they started I got involved by be invited my wife and I, like the Wilson, we were invited.

00:24:26.460 –> 00:24:41.670 Butch Mcdade: Oh, eight years ago 10 almost to read for five years we led a smoky mountain field school October hike up to the lodge a top look mount like on the can’t live.

00:24:42.270 –> 00:24:52.830 Butch Mcdade: And it was great we usually had about 20 people who had signed up through the smoky mountain field schools web page, which is again, you can Google it by just doing.

00:24:53.580 –> 00:25:10.620 Butch Mcdade: smoky mountain field school and they do have a agenda that we’re classes that are available, and you can online register, so I was doing one with my wife for five years or so, going up to malecon in October, which is fantastic we’ve got snowed snowed in a couple times.

00:25:12.390 –> 00:25:15.930 Butch Mcdade: October, and then I also do a an annual.

00:25:17.010 –> 00:25:23.520 Butch Mcdade: Alkmaar tour the historic elk my district for the smoking minefield school i’ve been doing that for over a decade.

00:25:24.180 –> 00:25:28.230 Butch Mcdade: Now, which is always exciting because I love that history i’m a historian history.

00:25:29.220 –> 00:25:35.790 Butch Mcdade: Major and a historian, is my ilk and also, I do i’m going to have another one coming up this year in September.

00:25:36.450 –> 00:25:55.200 Butch Mcdade: For the smoky mountain field school, which is a hike out to the Walker sisters home site in little greenbrier section of the park and that’s all i’ve been doing that for about a decade also so basically out my hike every every year, five years leading the overnight hike up to.

00:25:56.220 –> 00:25:59.580 Butch Mcdade: mount work on to the account lodge with my wife and then doing.

00:26:00.660 –> 00:26:07.620 Butch Mcdade: The Walker sister several times, including this coming Sep tember and everybody can join in, by going to.

00:26:08.760 –> 00:26:18.870 Butch Mcdade: I think it’s like www smoke SF s.org just do a search and you can register online and see the schedule see what’s coming up.

00:26:19.290 –> 00:26:21.420 Joseph McElroy: What are the kinds of topics, what kind of topics.

00:26:21.900 –> 00:26:26.850 Butch Mcdade: which I have things on bear bear management bears deer management.

00:26:28.350 –> 00:26:33.870 Butch Mcdade: The geography, the geology of the part of the biodiversity.

00:26:34.950 –> 00:26:51.900 Butch Mcdade: There must be probably Joseph in there before coven last year we really the smoking map fields go ahead and stop most of their outings until I think probably the latter part of the year, but there’s probably i’m going to guess 60 different topics, ranging from salamanders to.

00:26:53.670 –> 00:27:11.550 Butch Mcdade: Biology botany cultural history architectural history and even hiking this recreational opportunities, how to hike safely, the whole range of activities in the smokies a whole range of topics are covered by that Program.

00:27:11.850 –> 00:27:13.080 Joseph McElroy: what’s your favorite topic.

00:27:13.950 –> 00:27:22.170 Butch Mcdade: Well imma imma imma i’m i’m pretty much a mountain icon guys I said earlier, I gave up that high to a younger person my buddy of mine.

00:27:22.680 –> 00:27:28.200 Butch Mcdade: But if I could do it over again if I was younger I would continue to do that math work on overnight here, which I think they.

00:27:28.530 –> 00:27:35.610 Butch Mcdade: During Kobe they may have canceled that temporarily so again, I would caution people to check with their website, but also like elfman.

00:27:36.240 –> 00:27:46.080 Butch Mcdade: And i’ve also done one other favorite topic of mine, Joseph he is a hike in a talk about homeless kept part.

00:27:47.040 –> 00:27:53.070 Butch Mcdade: One of the great writers, of the smokies who wrote a number of good books and I might just show one I have it here how.

00:27:53.490 –> 00:28:00.060 Butch Mcdade: Our southern Highlands if anybody wants to read a great book on the smokies written in 1913 and still in print the day.

00:28:00.360 –> 00:28:14.070 Butch Mcdade: Read hordes kept ours, our southern highlanders read his camping and woodcraft which came out in 1906 and still in print i’ve had the occasion of taking numbers of people in on hikes in deep creek and other places where kephart had.

00:28:15.390 –> 00:28:20.070 Butch Mcdade: Somebody who’s activities as he lived in and around this area proud of the National Park i’ve even had the.

00:28:20.310 –> 00:28:35.850 Butch Mcdade: Great honor of going into some of those places which are today inside the park with his great grand daughter named libby kephart hargrave got to explore, a number of places with her and she is one of the great biographers and documentarians of her.

00:28:36.660 –> 00:28:45.420 Butch Mcdade: ancestor and it’s kept that horse kept our tradition alive and there are quite a few people out there who really admire Horace kept.

00:28:45.930 –> 00:28:55.260 Butch Mcdade: In his life and his work for the smoky so he did a lot to help protect this part, even though he was an outsider he was not from here so it’s a fascinating topic that’s one of my favorites too.

00:28:55.350 –> 00:28:57.060 Joseph McElroy: he’s he’s like considered like the.

00:28:57.090 –> 00:29:01.590 Joseph McElroy: grandfather or something of the smoky mountain Parker is some sort of thing like that he’s like the.

00:29:02.220 –> 00:29:02.640 Joseph McElroy: Is one.

00:29:03.000 –> 00:29:08.820 Butch Mcdade: yeah i’d say he’s one of the beacons one of those grand figures in the early days prior to the park actually he died in 1931.

00:29:09.060 –> 00:29:14.580 Butch Mcdade: So he the park was established in 34 but he knew that was kind of my day was authorized he saw it was coming.

00:29:14.970 –> 00:29:26.700 Butch Mcdade: And he spent his whole life here, he he lived in the smokies in places like hazel Cree in bryce and city and in the deep creek area, the north Carolina side, particularly was he has a the week.

00:29:27.210 –> 00:29:35.790 Butch Mcdade: And he gave us these early books that talked about the pre National Park people that’s the value and addition to that he was a fascinating outdoorsman.

00:29:36.120 –> 00:29:45.480 Butch Mcdade: He was a master of equipment and how to handle it and how to use it that’s his book here can’t begin with craft which, even though it’s printed in 1906.

00:29:46.110 –> 00:29:54.750 Butch Mcdade: And some of it is outdated as far as the modernity, of the new equipment, this is a Bible for the outdoors people ought to read it, they sell these books.

00:29:55.530 –> 00:30:03.960 Butch Mcdade: caving in woodcraft our southern highlanders and even a new biography on Horace kat bar and even libby kept arts documentary on.

00:30:04.530 –> 00:30:07.650 Butch Mcdade: Our ancestor they sell those items in our visitor centers.

00:30:08.040 –> 00:30:21.720 Butch Mcdade: In the park so go by the visitor Center so people, what do you have on horse gephardt you’ll find there’s some great stuff and it’s well worth reading and watching in any purchases you make help the national park, to the great smoky mountains association like you had.

00:30:22.650 –> 00:30:26.700 Butch Mcdade: Francis fighter on last week, you did a great job of explaining fine agency.

00:30:27.270 –> 00:30:34.860 Joseph McElroy: So when we come back i’m going to talk we’re going to talk more about your literary literary ventures, as well as your knowledge of just the area in general.

00:33:25.410 –> 00:33:32.640 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin McElroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcast with my guest.

00:33:33.300 –> 00:33:38.310 Joseph McElroy: which make baby, who is a retired park ranger and expert on the smoking out narrative.

00:33:38.820 –> 00:33:51.660 Joseph McElroy: So butch you know we’ve talked that we talked about the great smoky mountains, but you know I like a lot of other places, you know, in the mountains like I like the pisco national forest and I like to go over the nano hail and do some wrapped and.

00:33:52.050 –> 00:33:53.910 Joseph McElroy: What are some of the other places, do you like in the.

00:33:53.910 –> 00:33:56.820 Joseph McElroy: Smoke here in terms of natural wonders.

00:33:57.420 –> 00:34:00.600 Butch Mcdade: Well, you just hit upon to there are some great places, you know the smokies has.

00:34:01.590 –> 00:34:05.940 Butch Mcdade: 500,000 acres over that and then we’ve got the pisco national forest nearby.

00:34:06.360 –> 00:34:14.190 Butch Mcdade: we’ve got the NASA HALO national forest nearby and we got the cherokee nation, of course, all adjacent to the smoky so like you’re just alluding to.

00:34:14.490 –> 00:34:21.300 Butch Mcdade: My goodness that’s that’s a couple of million acres of public land, so, in addition to the smoky.

00:34:21.570 –> 00:34:30.720 Butch Mcdade: You can go to places like your own mountain up here in East Tennessee above Johnson city to these to Johnson city and you’re on the west of boone and fabulous area.

00:34:31.080 –> 00:34:40.020 Butch Mcdade: You can go paddling in different places like South of US there’s the old Cooley river down and polk county Tennessee I was just a couple of seasons as a guy they’re.

00:34:40.290 –> 00:34:46.290 Butch Mcdade: lovely stuff you got the digital river here got the ninja HALO river, we got the how Rossi river down below we got.

00:34:46.650 –> 00:34:54.000 Butch Mcdade: The various other refunds north of us like a not like chucky in the old bed wild and scenic rivers, a big South horse with this is.

00:34:54.540 –> 00:35:05.610 Butch Mcdade: Like you’re alluding to Joseph we’re in a Mecca of outdoor activities here with several million acres, and I mean million acres of public lands available to the public.

00:35:06.360 –> 00:35:14.760 Butch Mcdade: For mountain biking for fishing for hunting for hiking so my favorites again, as you just said, are some of the high country like it over there round grandfather mountain.

00:35:15.420 –> 00:35:22.890 Butch Mcdade: Like it over there by mount Mitchell state parks, well, I get off the blue Ridge parkway in places like shining rocks wilderness.

00:35:23.280 –> 00:35:38.550 Butch Mcdade: Like it down south of us at a place called the big fall big frog name wilderness area city code wilderness area south of the smokies it’s it’s it’s a lifetime of activity, I mean if you want to get into the outdoors.

00:35:40.650 –> 00:35:48.690 Butch Mcdade: You can find it here your guide books read those books go with getting get in touch with people in hiking club, they can get you started.

00:35:50.190 –> 00:35:54.630 Butch Mcdade: He might hiking club out in knoxville the asheville hiking club.

00:35:56.130 –> 00:35:57.720 Butch Mcdade: The high country around here lovely.

00:35:58.260 –> 00:36:02.820 Butch Mcdade: yeah so much of it is free the national forest lands usually are free.

00:36:03.840 –> 00:36:09.750 Butch Mcdade: In a park in the smokies is free, except for overnight backpack and all you have news and invest in some good equipment.

00:36:11.880 –> 00:36:15.810 Butch Mcdade: or it’s kept would tell us go to the mountains, but also have some good equipment.

00:36:15.960 –> 00:36:17.970 Joseph McElroy: And know has a good a good shoes.

00:36:20.040 –> 00:36:21.330 Joseph McElroy: Plenty of water yeah.

00:36:22.140 –> 00:36:26.280 Butch Mcdade: Actual waters extra food and some rain here.

00:36:26.790 –> 00:36:31.530 Joseph McElroy: yeah oh yeah that’s a that’s a that’s a feat, you know why it’s called the smokies because.

00:36:31.650 –> 00:36:33.600 Joseph McElroy: ability and why we don’t.

00:36:33.630 –> 00:36:44.490 Joseph McElroy: Rain all day, every day, many days I mean it’s very seldom that we get a day, where you run rain all day long but to us, it will get during the summer special you usually get an hour break.

00:36:46.050 –> 00:36:55.950 Butch Mcdade: 8580 inches of rain up on the high country like a clean mother don’t know the valley and I get cherokee you might get 45 inches so it does get more.

00:36:56.490 –> 00:37:04.650 Butch Mcdade: snow in precipitation and rain up there, but just be prepared for my little boy scout girl scout slogan be prepared that’s that’s good stuff.

00:37:05.160 –> 00:37:12.960 Joseph McElroy: And I know one of my favorite places to take kids to speaking of scouts I remember this is is to go up to slide rock right.

00:37:14.070 –> 00:37:18.060 Joseph McElroy: It is like what is it like 100 feet of a waterfall it’s not like a.

00:37:18.120 –> 00:37:31.110 Joseph McElroy: Direct drop it’s like 100 feet slanted drop and it’s been worn so slits so smooth, as you can just get on it in the water i’ll just take you on a slide into a deep pool and the kids just love it.

00:37:31.530 –> 00:37:38.280 Butch Mcdade: I think we have not gone over there, but I understand it’s very crowded on weekends, but it looks like a heck of a lot.

00:37:39.030 –> 00:37:44.070 Joseph McElroy: Well, you go up that I think it’s 276 from waynesville all the way to hendersonville.

00:37:44.310 –> 00:37:58.800 Joseph McElroy: And it goes up this little winding road through for us it’s very backwoods and then you go I think there’s a couple places along the way, but slide rock is one so there’s like all these hidden gems little waterfalls things like that, but to.

00:38:00.180 –> 00:38:15.840 Butch Mcdade: be safe around those places, you know you can get hurt sliding off rocks and stuff and most waterfall areas are pretty prone to getting hurt, but I know I know the forest service, I think, allows that that use there so as long as you’re in harmony with all the the land agency management.

00:38:16.710 –> 00:38:18.030 Butch Mcdade: and be careful enjoy.

00:38:18.450 –> 00:38:22.290 Joseph McElroy: I think slide rock is designated as being something that people can do, and they.

00:38:22.740 –> 00:38:23.790 Joseph McElroy: made it pretty safe.

00:38:24.060 –> 00:38:24.270 Joseph McElroy: yeah.

00:38:24.750 –> 00:38:32.370 Joseph McElroy: Well, besides that the wilderness word of your fleet, what are your favorite towns to go visit, what are your favorite things not in the wilderness to go doing the smoke here.

00:38:33.000 –> 00:38:38.700 Butch Mcdade: So we like Townsend over here my wife and I we go over there, like a bicycle ride on that about 11 mile.

00:38:39.210 –> 00:38:47.880 Butch Mcdade: Road I should say pay path I don’t get much on the main road leads with like such a dangerous, but it is lovely over towns in area.

00:38:48.390 –> 00:38:56.610 Butch Mcdade: I like the area around a real you guys are in a show having a great town, we like boone North Carolina.

00:38:57.000 –> 00:39:04.080 Butch Mcdade: I like up there at hot springs North Carolina off the appalachian trail that’s a nice little town we’re like the Nana hey la area.

00:39:04.380 –> 00:39:22.860 Butch Mcdade: I do a lot of used to do a heck of a lot of bodie she’ll do some canoe trips and do some rafi creates a beat the Nana HALO in the net then he’ll national course a bunch of outfitters there you can get a trip on so anywhere that’s not too crowded but scenic and that you can come on.

00:39:24.540 –> 00:39:31.980 Butch Mcdade: Every day of the week, not just on weekends, again I try to stay away from weekends for much of a our destination, because of the crowd.

00:39:32.430 –> 00:39:41.430 Butch Mcdade: But boy Tuesday and Wednesday and Thursday where everybody arrived, so we can you can have in you can enjoy the heck out of these guys just be safe in anything in the background.

00:39:42.000 –> 00:39:56.400 Butch Mcdade: Let people know where you are you careful watch her dangers and take that extra food an extra clothing, if you go into the wilderness and just be safe area or say get learn how to use it and be prudent.

00:39:58.830 –> 00:40:08.460 Joseph McElroy: So you are a good writer you’ve already mentioned the book right you mentioned one book but you’ve written quite a number of books and articles what God.

00:40:08.550 –> 00:40:09.930 Joseph McElroy: tell us a little bit about those.

00:40:10.770 –> 00:40:17.490 Butch Mcdade: yeah Thank you Joe I did this first book oh way back in the 90s it’s called old smokey mountain days.

00:40:18.150 –> 00:40:27.090 Butch Mcdade: And it’s an anthology little survey varieties of a guy just mentioned a moment ago, or skatepark who wrote those find early books about outdoor life and the smokies.

00:40:27.810 –> 00:40:36.810 Butch Mcdade: profile him and his fascinating not only the smokies but in the wilderness of other places, and also profile in this little book.

00:40:37.320 –> 00:40:54.030 Butch Mcdade: The great work of a man named Joseph sergeant all i’ve read some articles about him here’s an article over the picture of go heart, he was he came here in the 1930s and a temporary employee during the Great Depression and he started to.

00:40:55.470 –> 00:41:03.060 Butch Mcdade: interview the mountain people, some of the people that were still in this in the smokies before they were moved out and some that had just been moved out.

00:41:03.570 –> 00:41:11.250 Butch Mcdade: and his goal was to interview these mountains smoky mountain peak on both the north Carolina and the north and the tenancy side.

00:41:12.090 –> 00:41:17.280 Butch Mcdade: and get their stories and let them talk and hear their voices he actually recorded these people.

00:41:17.730 –> 00:41:22.950 Butch Mcdade: On portable tape recorders that he took into the back into the into the back roads of the smokies.

00:41:23.370 –> 00:41:30.390 Butch Mcdade: And we have those recordings still today here in the park in the archives and the REP at the smithsonian institution and in the library Congress.

00:41:30.780 –> 00:41:40.620 Butch Mcdade: So we have real smoking amount people on tape from the 1940s, particularly done by this man named Joseph saw your House I profiled him because he is really.

00:41:40.980 –> 00:41:48.870 Butch Mcdade: A pioneer linguist and folklorist of the smokies and he was doing this work way back in the 30s and he kept coming back here, even though he lived.

00:41:49.320 –> 00:41:56.100 Butch Mcdade: Much of his life in California as a college Professor who kept coming back you’re fascinated by the mountain people in their language.

00:41:56.670 –> 00:42:02.880 Butch Mcdade: And then I profound and, lastly, but not least in this book a man from knoxville Tennessee I lawyer.

00:42:03.750 –> 00:42:10.920 Butch Mcdade: University of Tennessee graduate became a lawyer, but who became a great leader in wilderness conservation I got him Harvey burnham.

00:42:11.370 –> 00:42:18.840 Butch Mcdade: Our brains, not that well known, sadly, I think he merits more consideration from our our readership and our readership.

00:42:19.230 –> 00:42:28.320 Butch Mcdade: But he was a fascinating fellow who helped found the wilderness society, which is a major national conservation outfit he helped found the.

00:42:29.010 –> 00:42:38.760 Butch Mcdade: smoky mountain hiking club, he was an inveterate hiker along with his wife and and they love the smokies and he wrote some fabulous books that were published after his his dad.

00:42:39.090 –> 00:42:49.590 Butch Mcdade: mainly from his notes and from his journal, which I recommend to everybody, in addition to reading the books of course gephardt I recommend a book called out under the sky of the great smokies.

00:42:50.070 –> 00:43:00.330 Butch Mcdade: Which is a mountain journal published after the authors death and the author was none other than Harvey brew be our own.

00:43:00.840 –> 00:43:09.660 Butch Mcdade: Oh me and it’s a fascinating personal perspective on the smoky so check yeah people should check the literature, the smokies out there’s a lot of books out there.

00:43:10.410 –> 00:43:23.130 Butch Mcdade: plethora of them, but you can’t go wrong by reading horoscope arts works Harvey brooms works and Laura thornburg and many others, though 30 books, give us a flavor for what smokies were like.

00:43:24.810 –> 00:43:29.730 Butch Mcdade: say in the 40s and 50s and how we interpreted them at that time.

00:43:30.360 –> 00:43:33.900 Joseph McElroy: Now, you also have contributed to a book about the appalachians right.

00:43:34.860 –> 00:43:37.470 Butch Mcdade: Yes, Sir, I did I I hadn’t have it right here.

00:43:37.770 –> 00:43:38.340 Joseph McElroy: alright.

00:43:38.730 –> 00:43:46.560 Butch Mcdade: The encyclopedia of appalachia big thick tone put out by the University of Tennessee so I didn’t write all of this, Joe I just run the part of it.

00:43:48.540 –> 00:43:57.870 Butch Mcdade: But there were a number of collaborators or contributing writers, I was invited to participate, that on this APP in the early 2000s and I wrote several.

00:43:58.290 –> 00:44:07.170 Butch Mcdade: A handful of entries on this tome and it is a tone which is a real comprehensive guide to the history of the southern appalachian.

00:44:07.620 –> 00:44:20.790 Butch Mcdade: And the literature, the smell of the southern appalachian region and the recreational activities my contributions were mainly on the recreational themes of mountain biking hunting and fishing and whitewater so.

00:44:21.240 –> 00:44:26.070 Butch Mcdade: that’s Those are my interest I, my main interest is conservation history i’m fascinated by what.

00:44:26.550 –> 00:44:37.320 Butch Mcdade: happened here in the smokies how we got a National Park, mainly because North Carolina people and mainly because Tennessee people wanted apart, not some federal bureaucrats.

00:44:37.650 –> 00:44:43.350 Butch Mcdade: In Washington local people wanted this part local people put up much of the money.

00:44:44.070 –> 00:44:48.510 Butch Mcdade: Local people states bought the land North Carolina Tennessee bought a lot of the land.

00:44:48.810 –> 00:44:57.480 Butch Mcdade: And the feds came in and managed it so it’s a great conservation victory, I also always say to this, even though we got a National Park, which is the most visit in the nation Joseph.

00:44:58.140 –> 00:45:05.490 Butch Mcdade: We all, also have to always take our head off and i’m doing it right now to the mountaineers of North Carolina and Tennessee you had to leave.

00:45:06.120 –> 00:45:17.610 Butch Mcdade: When the park was established, we owe those people a lot they had to give up their phone, I think you would agree as a local person North carolinians gave up a lot kind of seems gave up a lot to move up.

00:45:18.240 –> 00:45:20.700 Joseph McElroy: And don’t forget the cherokee had to give up as well.

00:45:20.760 –> 00:45:27.810 Joseph McElroy: You know they and then they had to they had to lead lands and things like that, and they also had to contribute to it as well.

00:45:28.290 –> 00:45:29.670 Butch Mcdade: In my head.

00:45:30.600 –> 00:45:33.930 Joseph McElroy: So when we come back we’ll talk about the future.

00:45:34.170 –> 00:45:36.300 Joseph McElroy: And what’s coming up for you in the park.

00:47:54.960 –> 00:48:02.580 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin mcilroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcast and my guest glitch mcdaid of.

00:48:03.180 –> 00:48:12.540 Joseph McElroy: Part of the entire park ranger with the great smoky mountains national park and also author of many great books and articles so.

00:48:13.020 –> 00:48:19.350 Joseph McElroy: Books before we get into the future, I was quickly that was doing some research on you and came across an article that couldn’t read it really.

00:48:19.920 –> 00:48:29.610 Joseph McElroy: It was interesting to me it looked like you were done something cleaning the marker marker of the wandering boy, and I was wondering what that was.

00:48:30.570 –> 00:48:43.800 Butch Mcdade: yeah yeah that was an interesting i’ve been fascinated by that young man named ED mckinley it’s one of those sad stories of the smokies of a young boy band is basically died trying to go over the mountains.

00:48:44.910 –> 00:48:52.830 Butch Mcdade: And in the early 1900s and he got caught in a snowstorm and died and nobody could identify this kid.

00:48:53.640 –> 00:49:02.040 Butch Mcdade: Until about 1975 when his sister younger sister made an inquiry to the park ranger buddy of mine and mine I knew for a guy.

00:49:02.550 –> 00:49:14.460 Butch Mcdade: named Glenn cardwell at trivalent visitor Center 1975 this young lady comes in, or this one young man she’s middle 80s and she asked the Rangers there did they have any records of her or other.

00:49:15.180 –> 00:49:22.740 Butch Mcdade: And the Rangers at that time said well when did it occur, and I said what’s in the early 90s about 1912 to 15 that’s what you told them.

00:49:23.310 –> 00:49:36.000 Butch Mcdade: And they said, well, we don’t have those records here, because the park and come into being, until 1934 so that young lady was about ready to leave or that lady, but one of the Rangers said hold on a minute, let me check her one of the long.

00:49:37.440 –> 00:49:49.830 Butch Mcdade: Standing Rangers here, who was a man a gland cardwell and Glenn was from this year Glenn has worked his whole career 34 years in the trigger and visitor Center and make a long story short.

00:49:50.910 –> 00:49:51.330 Butch Mcdade: This woman.

00:49:52.530 –> 00:50:02.640 Butch Mcdade: articulate what happened to her brother, for what she knew and that led Lynn cardwell this ranger to call around some of the people, he knew.

00:50:03.300 –> 00:50:08.160 Butch Mcdade: Particularly a lady named Lou Center oval and Gavin and you make a long story short.

00:50:08.610 –> 00:50:28.290 Butch Mcdade: by getting together with her sisters and getting together with these people in gatlinburg who were from that Community of the sugar land they finally resolved that this young man who had been buried in unmarked grave for 660 years was indeed the brother, the one that came in.

00:50:29.100 –> 00:50:42.000 Joseph McElroy: was a great coach that’s a great story i’d also I I think you I don’t want it, we can’t get into we don’t have time, but I think that ranger you actually wrote about and he’s the man that never got mad right, I thought that was a beautiful Testaments.

00:50:42.690 –> 00:50:47.340 Joseph McElroy: Fine, so people can look online to find out more about that yeah.

00:50:48.690 –> 00:50:52.140 Joseph McElroy: So do you have any upcoming literary projects you’d like to tell us about.

00:50:52.980 –> 00:50:59.970 Butch Mcdade: Well yeah Thank you, I do have a great a help contribute to a great smoky mountain association.

00:51:00.930 –> 00:51:13.920 Butch Mcdade: blog that Francis fired puts out called smokies live like I got one that she had are good people put out today article short article I wrote about john viewer and his conservation legacy people can find that.

00:51:14.340 –> 00:51:20.790 Butch Mcdade: On the great smoky mountains association web page under the heading of smokies live, which is a online.

00:51:21.390 –> 00:51:28.050 Butch Mcdade: magazine for articles, so I work with Francis on on a monthly blog a monthly posts.

00:51:28.380 –> 00:51:33.030 Butch Mcdade: Also, by the way, if I mention one other thing about the great smoky mountain association, in addition to working with.

00:51:33.330 –> 00:51:41.100 Butch Mcdade: The smoky mountain field school i’ve done a number of hikes over the years, with great smoky mountain association taking their members in two.

00:51:41.370 –> 00:51:51.690 Butch Mcdade: backs and precise and on historical to her, so I want to mention that about having worked with a number of people in great smoky mountain association on getting their members out then always those alignment fun to.

00:51:51.750 –> 00:52:01.050 Joseph McElroy: Well that’s one of the benefits of membership, I don’t think we even talked about that so, but the benefit of membership is to get those tours and high so it’s a very experienced guys like yourself so.

00:52:01.050 –> 00:52:02.160 Joseph McElroy: I think that’s fabulous.

00:52:02.730 –> 00:52:04.230 Butch Mcdade: Now, also I also work.

00:52:04.470 –> 00:52:12.270 Butch Mcdade: do a number of articles for my i’m a contributing writer to a magazine in your backyard over there and wayne’s nail called smoky mountain liddy.

00:52:13.680 –> 00:52:23.010 Butch Mcdade: yeah Jonathan Austin and his good folks they put out a great magazine every every two months, and it is time it’s got features on the cultural heritage.

00:52:23.820 –> 00:52:32.130 Butch Mcdade: shopping places to go to my my contributions have been mostly in the historical Ram on the history of this area i’m going to be doing one.

00:52:32.550 –> 00:52:37.950 Butch Mcdade: just got a project from them about the Frederick law olmsted in his work on the biltmore.

00:52:38.520 –> 00:52:52.530 Butch Mcdade: estate in asheville that’s going to be a fine project so i’ll work with that magazine quite a bit and also a contributing writer pretty regularly to a magazine called the tenancy concert vacation is out of nashville so I stayed relatively busy so i’m working.

00:52:52.530 –> 00:52:53.730 Joseph McElroy: On yeah.

00:52:54.120 –> 00:52:58.050 Joseph McElroy: yeah if people want to get Ahold of your books, they go to Amazon right.

00:52:58.410 –> 00:53:04.710 Butch Mcdade: yeah most of my Amazon that’s the best way you can go to university of Tennessee CREST or Amazon or eight books and get that.

00:53:05.400 –> 00:53:08.190 Joseph McElroy: National and then they’re under your formal name, which is.

00:53:08.400 –> 00:53:12.000 Joseph McElroy: which took me a second figure out it’s not much mcdade it’s off the author.

00:53:12.030 –> 00:53:12.960 Joseph McElroy: Arthur mcdade.

00:53:14.160 –> 00:53:14.700 Butch Mcdade: i’m an artist.

00:53:17.430 –> 00:53:19.890 Butch Mcdade: But it is Arthur mcdade ar Th you are.

00:53:20.400 –> 00:53:24.090 Joseph McElroy: Now, do you have a website or a white people can reach out and say hey.

00:53:24.750 –> 00:53:43.770 Butch Mcdade: I do not have a website per se, I do a post a or I have a page called smokies guide smokies guide, which people can comment on, I even posted this podcast today, so if anybody has any concerns or questions, please post on a comment and and i’ll be glad to get up with them.

00:53:44.040 –> 00:53:46.680 Joseph McElroy: that’s hokies guide COM or is that Facebook page.

00:53:46.890 –> 00:53:48.840 Butch Mcdade: The Facebook yeah it’s a Facebook page.

00:53:48.930 –> 00:54:01.710 Joseph McElroy: Right great well we brought in time I mentioned a few other sponsors that I really appreciated you coming on today it’s been wonderful your books will be up also with Amazon links on our website.

00:54:02.130 –> 00:54:08.040 Joseph McElroy: Which i’ll mention just a second and and I hope to meet you and maybe meet you when I come down there all right.

00:54:08.250 –> 00:54:10.020 Butch Mcdade: let’s do that another good Irishman.

00:54:10.140 –> 00:54:11.070 Joseph McElroy: mcilroy yo.

00:54:14.400 –> 00:54:21.900 Joseph McElroy: So this this podcast is on the talk radio dot nyc network there’s a lot of great.

00:54:23.430 –> 00:54:24.330 Joseph McElroy: A lot of great.

00:54:26.010 –> 00:54:27.780 Joseph McElroy: podcasts on this network I would.

00:54:28.980 –> 00:54:38.910 Joseph McElroy: I would appreciate, if you go and listen to one there’s one after this program that explores New York City, so you can go from the urban from the rural to the URBAN.

00:54:39.660 –> 00:54:47.880 Joseph McElroy: To find out wonderful things to do this podcast you can find out more information about this podcast by going gateway to the to the smokies Doc fun.

00:54:48.630 –> 00:54:59.730 Joseph McElroy: which has a subscription to our newsletter will allow you know when new things are coming up, and when new episodes are coming up and where we also have links to various books of our guests and things like that.

00:55:01.320 –> 00:55:11.790 Joseph McElroy: I want you to imagine a place evocative of the motor courts in the past, yet modern and vibrant with the chic appalachian feel a place for adventure and for relaxation.

00:55:12.300 –> 00:55:21.660 Joseph McElroy: Imagine a place where you can fish in a mountain heritage trout streams grill the catch on fire and eat accompanied by fine wine or craft beers imagine.

00:55:22.170 –> 00:55:29.550 Joseph McElroy: place of the old time music and world cultural sounds there’s no other place like the metal lark motel in Maggie valley North Carolina.

00:55:30.030 –> 00:55:39.570 Joseph McElroy: And it’s in the gateway to the smokies we are the spark that we are the starting point for all your smoky mountain adventures, and your smoky mountain adventure starts with where you stay.

00:55:40.980 –> 00:55:53.940 Joseph McElroy: And then another sponsor is smokies adventure calm, which is a vent information listing site for the smokies where you can find information about hiking and weddings venues and other great things to do.

00:55:55.170 –> 00:56:06.090 Joseph McElroy: And it’s smokies plural adventure calm and you can go there and also sign up for a newsletter and find places to stay and places and things to do.

00:56:06.570 –> 00:56:20.310 Joseph McElroy: I want to thank you, we haven’t we’re having a great guest next week on this podcast it’s the same time Tuesdays from six to seven and we’ll be exploring other aspects of the great smoky mountains and it’s been good talking to you today.

Our special guest in this episode is Frances Figart. She directs the Creative Services department at the Great Smoky Mountains Association and edits Smokies Life magazine, the premier benefit for GSMA members. She is the editor of the 2019 GSMA title, Back of Beyond: A Horace Kephart Biography, which won the Thomas Wolfe Memorial Literary Award that same year. 

Her background includes editing the monthly magazine for the National Tour Association, editing popular arts and culture monthly The Laurel of Asheville, and providing marketing and communications for a kayak ecotour operator in Canada and Costa Rica.

‍Tune in for this fun conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.

Joseph discusses a personal anecdote about the experience he went through after the passing of his wife. He transitions into the topic of today’s episode, journeys in life. Joseph introduces today’s guest, Frances Figart, and discusses some of her careers. Frances discusses the experiences that led her to Asheville and her journey into the ecotourism industry. Moving to Asheville, Frances knew almost no one, but quickly found her way in the mountains. Frances discusses getting involved with journalism in the Smokies, and how she became interested in the park.

Coming back from the break, Frances describes what ecotourism actually is and how she got involved with it. Frances talks about the GSMA and what her position in it is. The GSMA is an educational park partner, with the revenue from their books, magazines, and other products helping to support the park.

Frances has written two books, one called Seasons of Letting go, which encapsulates the experience of her mother’s passing. Frances discusses how this book came about when she was home taking care of her mother. She hadn’t planned to write a book, but she wrote a blog during and in the year after her mother’s passing, which eventually was put together to become the book. She discusses what the book means to her, and how it helped her reinvent herself yet still honor and remember her mother. Joseph shares the similarities he has found in his experiences with what Frances has talked about. Frances found that in letting go of her mother, she found herself and aligned with her destiny. Her second book, which was recently released, is very difficult to her first, being a children’s book about the Smokies. Frances talks about a project she has been working on helping to bring down the animal deaths in crossing roads in the mountains. This inspired the children’s book as they will soon be inheriting the park and will be the ones taking care of it. Not only is the book fun for children, but it is educating, helping to make complex topics about these animals simple for children.

Coming back from the break, Joseph asks Frances about the impact Covid has had on the park. Early on in the pandemic, the park, visitor centers, and warehouses for online orders all needed to close. A challenge the GSMA faced was keeping parkgoers involved virtually. Frances combatted this issue by starting a blog called Smokies Live, sharing stories that act almost as a more up-to-date version of the magazine. In addition to the blog, the GSMA hosts zoom meetings and use slack in order to keep connected. As much as she loves her job, Frances says that she would be doing many of the obligations of her job in her daily life regardless, making it even more enjoyable for her. She discusses future plans for the sequel to her children’s book.

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00:00:36.150 –> 00:00:42.000 Joseph McElroy: howdy thanks for joining us on this week’s episode of gateway to the smokies.

00:00:42.510 –> 00:00:50.670 Joseph McElroy: This podcast is about America’s most visited National Park, the great smoky mountains national park, and surrounding towns.

00:00:51.090 –> 00:01:01.170 Joseph McElroy: This area is filled with ancient natural beauty a deep story history and a rich mountain culture that we will explore with weekly episodes.

00:01:01.770 –> 00:01:16.170 Joseph McElroy: I’m Joseph Franklin McElroy a man of the world, but also with deep roots in these mountains My family has lived in the great smokies for over 200 years my businesses in travel, but my heart is in mountain culture.

00:01:17.310 –> 00:01:36.810 Joseph McElroy: Now this episode is entitled ecotourism and safe passage is for wildlife in the smokies but it’s really about journeys to help conservation efforts, the journeys to life that lead to transitions and journeys that wildlife has to make to ensure their species survival.

00:01:38.280 –> 00:01:47.610 Joseph McElroy: You know that journeys are something that I talked about every day my profession has been marketing and, in that we always talk about the customer journey.

00:01:48.060 –> 00:02:08.190 Joseph McElroy: The path they follow and the transitions they make to become paying customers now, this is not a profound journey but it illustrates that even the smallest parts of our lives, we are on journeys the profound journeys create transitions that can be life-changing and even world-changing.

00:02:09.600 –> 00:02:20.610 Joseph McElroy: we’re going to talk some about death, I know this is not expected, but when you travel and celebrate life you’re also preparing for a good death without regrets.

00:02:22.620 –> 00:02:28.830 Joseph McElroy: And my family place that I now own the middle or motel there was an old couple who’d been coming there for years.

00:02:29.760 –> 00:02:37.800 Joseph McElroy: And they called one day and talk to my parents and honestly told them that the woman was dying and wanted to come to stay in the Cabinet and die by the river.

00:02:38.520 –> 00:02:51.900 Joseph McElroy: And the sides of the mountains that had brought such joy her whole life and she did they let her come and she eventually died in peace in the cabin and it was as much as as a celebration, as it was an occasion for SAR.

00:02:53.430 –> 00:03:10.920 Joseph McElroy: And this is one of the reasons I bought the motel from my parents, three years ago, because the profound meeting I found in hospitality that creates memorable moments in people’s lives and their journeys and that make those journeys more beautiful and hopefully without regrets.

00:03:12.090 –> 00:03:19.530 Joseph McElroy: Some of you know, the in 2014 my wife of 20 years died of rare cancer, and I was her caregiver for two years.

00:03:20.280 –> 00:03:29.460 Joseph McElroy: My guest today has a book on life’s lessons learned from helping her mother die, and then it she writes about the hero’s journey by Joseph Campbell.

00:03:30.120 –> 00:03:45.000 Joseph McElroy: How facing obstacles and fighting dragons leads to transformation at first her mother’s death seemed to her to be the end of the journey until she went through her grief and realized her mother was still on a journey for me.

00:03:46.260 –> 00:03:55.800 Joseph McElroy: This brought back memories, because I attended a workshop after my wife’s death in the mountains, called the hero’s journey by just the Joseph Campbell foundation.

00:03:56.610 –> 00:04:11.250 Joseph McElroy: There they led me through an exercise, where I had to write on a gravestone something that I needed to see buried now having just buried my wife, this was something of a challenge for me.

00:04:12.180 –> 00:04:23.940 Joseph McElroy: But through some deep reflection, I wrote on the gravestone Mr and Mrs Joseph mcilroy and laid it down in the ceremony on the mountain side and had my transformational moment.

00:04:24.600 –> 00:04:37.320 Joseph McElroy: Because I realized that I was still thinking of myself, as Mr Mrs Joseph mcilroy and I realized that identity, no longer existed, I was grieving as much.

00:04:38.040 –> 00:04:58.410 Joseph McElroy: For her as for my my identity as as I was, for my late wife and I didn’t need to grieve for that identity, I needed to process the grief for my late wife and then I was no longer Mr Mrs Joseph McElroy I had to proceed as Joseph I had to reinvent a new life.

00:04:59.580 –> 00:05:09.990 Joseph McElroy: Now I still remember today that life and wife, but I am married again I have given life to twins who are two years old and i’ve recovered and refurbish my family’s homestead.

00:05:10.950 –> 00:05:20.940 Joseph McElroy: So I started a brand new journey through that transition, so this so this episode is not about me it’s about journeys.

00:05:21.570 –> 00:05:28.050 Joseph McElroy: And we’re also going to be considering the life and journeys that wildlife has to make because of human civilization.

00:05:28.800 –> 00:05:38.160 Joseph McElroy: And how we can make those journeys safer and life more fulfilling and how we can do conservation efforts and with ecotourism and things like that.

00:05:38.910 –> 00:05:42.750 Joseph McElroy: So, to help us explore this I invited My guess Francis fiber.

00:05:43.410 –> 00:05:53.940 Joseph McElroy: Who directs the creative service department at the great smoky mountains, associations and edits the fabulous smokies life magazine is one of the most beautiful magazines i’ve ever seen.

00:05:54.690 –> 00:06:04.980 Joseph McElroy: She is a Thomas Wolfe memorial literary award winner she has edited edited several magazines, she has led marketing for eco tour operators in Canada and Costa Rica.

00:06:05.520 –> 00:06:15.000 Joseph McElroy: she’s the author of several books, including the seasons of letting go, which is the book I just referenced and has a new children’s book a search for safe passage.

00:06:15.450 –> 00:06:29.520 Joseph McElroy: which was just published by the great smoky mountains, associations and it follows a group of animal friends friends in a smoky mountains board brant banding together to find a safe way across the major highway hello, Francis.

00:06:30.150 –> 00:06:32.160 Frances Figart: haters of thanks for having me.

00:06:32.430 –> 00:06:34.470 Joseph McElroy: Oh sure how are you doing today.

00:06:35.190 –> 00:06:41.550 Frances Figart: Doing really well it’s wonderful to be here and i’d like to thank our mutual friend Bob plot for introducing us.

00:06:42.000 –> 00:06:50.910 Joseph McElroy: he’s is, do you know I danced last week we’re actually creating the smoky mountain meadowlark smoky mountain heritage Center and we’re doing.

00:06:51.390 –> 00:06:57.570 Joseph McElroy: Working together to create lots of heritage events and bring lots of awareness of what’s happening in these mountains.

00:06:58.020 –> 00:07:11.490 Joseph McElroy: So you have had a remarkably diverse career and live everywhere from Costa Rica and Canada, yet now live north of actual right and with your life has been on a six acre property near the appalachian trail.

00:07:11.850 –> 00:07:14.100 Joseph McElroy: Yes, how did you end up working in the great smoky.

00:07:14.820 –> 00:07:31.860 Frances Figart: So very interesting, so I as you were talking about went through an experience, where I helped my mother passed away in 2012 she died and that next year, I moved to the asheville area and I met my husband and I.

00:07:32.940 –> 00:07:44.430 Frances Figart: moved to a place that’s just about 40 minutes north of asheville called flag pond Tennessee which there’s not very much here and that’s why we’re here, there are a lot of cool animals and not very many people.

00:07:45.270 –> 00:07:52.920 Frances Figart: But when I first moved to asheville I had put my career in ecotourism on hold to help my mother passed away.

00:07:53.370 –> 00:07:58.890 Frances Figart: And so I really was starting over you know it’s very much like you were talking about you kind of reinvented your life.

00:07:59.400 –> 00:08:04.140 Frances Figart: And I went to asheville I didn’t know anyone I knew to people.

00:08:04.590 –> 00:08:12.540 Frances Figart: And, but i’m a great networker so I stormed into town and said i’m going to become a magazine editor i’m going to be the editor of the Laurel of asheville which I did that.

00:08:13.020 –> 00:08:27.120 Frances Figart: And I also did some pro bono work for another part partner in the smokies called discover life in America, and they do the all tax of biodiversity inventory, which is a Count of all the species in the park.

00:08:27.720 –> 00:08:39.510 Frances Figart: And so I did some pro bono editing and writing for them and years later, in 2017 the executive director Todd witcher of discover life in America called me one day and said.

00:08:39.990 –> 00:08:43.890 Frances Figart: there’s a job, opening up in the smokies that has your name written all over it.

00:08:44.310 –> 00:08:53.430 Frances Figart: And I said well that’s wonderful, but my husband built our cabin and there’s no way that i’m going to be able to move to the smokies I couldn’t move to gatlinburg.

00:08:53.790 –> 00:08:58.710 Frances Figart: And he said, well, I think you need to have a talk with the executive director I don’t think he would have to move there.

00:08:59.490 –> 00:09:06.930 Frances Figart: Because you know when you work in publishing it can be pretty remote, these days, and so I did have that conversation with.

00:09:07.530 –> 00:09:16.800 Frances Figart: them the executive director and now the CEO Laurel repertory who is my boss, and we decided that if I were the right person for the job that I wouldn’t have to move away so I.

00:09:17.370 –> 00:09:30.720 Frances Figart: I went through all the processes I didn’t expect to get the job, and yet here I am and so all day long I work from home in flight on Tennessee but my mind is two hours away in great smoky mountain National Park.

00:09:31.470 –> 00:09:38.130 Joseph McElroy: cool I knew, you had plenty of experience in the area yeah like me i’m doing this podcast from New York City.

00:09:38.880 –> 00:09:46.920 Joseph McElroy: But you know I grew up there, and you know and i’ve always been there and I have my business interests there, and you know so.

00:09:47.520 –> 00:10:03.540 Joseph McElroy: You know well, of course I business interest in New York, so, but you can you can you can love multiple places in your life, and I think actually having the experience of loving two places really prepares you to talk about it in the travel sets right yeah.

00:10:03.690 –> 00:10:17.100 Frances Figart: yeah like I love I love, where I live, so much, and I have trail cams around my property and at night, especially at night there are bobcats that come through that’s my spirit animal and I love them, but we have bear and deer and Turkey and.

00:10:18.180 –> 00:10:24.210 Frances Figart: opossum and skunk and would check and all these wonderful animals that are on this property, so I love it here.

00:10:24.600 –> 00:10:35.460 Frances Figart: But I also love, Costa Rica and that would be a place that we’re I to have an opportunity to can to live there, I might do so, but I don’t think I can pull my husband away.

00:10:35.760 –> 00:10:46.380 Frances Figart: From the appalachian trail region he’s hiked it four times, he was here and and I love it here as well, so yeah but I know what you mean you can love to places that’s for sure.

00:10:46.560 –> 00:10:56.550 Joseph McElroy: yeah well, I mean you can you can love several places my wife loves New York City and she’s learning to love the the smoky mountains and she she loves a.

00:10:58.950 –> 00:11:00.360 Joseph McElroy: place in Mexico.

00:11:01.680 –> 00:11:04.650 Joseph McElroy: i’m drawing a blank on and she’s gonna get mad at me she’s probably listening.

00:11:05.730 –> 00:11:14.010 Joseph McElroy: San Miguel San Miguel and the mountains in which is sort of a mountainous region in the in the in the.

00:11:14.370 –> 00:11:30.060 Joseph McElroy: Mexico and she’s originally from Trinidad and grew up on a mountain in Trinidad you know everything so true that’d be in this Caribbean island but it’s actually a mountainous Caribbean island and so she’s she’s I tell her we’re just we’re just mountain people.

00:11:32.490 –> 00:11:37.170 Joseph McElroy: So, and so, what do you, what do you love most about the smoky mountains region.

00:11:38.250 –> 00:11:47.250 Frances Figart: Well, I tell you it’s um it’s a very diverse place and that’s part of the reason why I love, Costa Rica, was the diversity and you know the smokies has been studied.

00:11:47.580 –> 00:11:59.820 Frances Figart: by scientists all over the world as a biodiversity hotspot and so that’s why I really got interested in the job because it was a place that I could put my ecotourism background to work if you will.

00:12:00.210 –> 00:12:13.800 Frances Figart: And I manage the creative team they’re a great smoky mountains, association and we create all kinds of books and magazines and projects like we did we actually do a podcast to that’s called smoky mountain air.

00:12:14.820 –> 00:12:28.980 Frances Figart: So there are so many ways to lend you know the creative forces to the smokies because they’re just so many stories to be told we’re helping to tell ancient stories of the peoples who were here before it was even a park.

00:12:29.010 –> 00:12:29.700 Joseph McElroy: You know the Chair.

00:12:29.880 –> 00:12:36.660 Frances Figart: In the African American people that were here before, so we help the park in so many different ways to do that interpretive work.

00:12:37.470 –> 00:12:49.350 Joseph McElroy: Well that’s Nice, you know I I was reading about that you know the cherokee you know claim anywhere from 3000 to 15,000 years ago of culture in this area yeah and so.

00:12:50.040 –> 00:13:01.290 Joseph McElroy: I find that very interesting and, of course, the West African influence on music here is tremendous, especially the banjo I mean our first episode, we talked a lot about that.

00:13:01.890 –> 00:13:18.420 Joseph McElroy: I have a friend of mine who is both Scotch Irish and West African descent all right, and he was the drummer for simple minds at one point he’s artists in residence at the middle Arc motel and he’s exploring all those sorts of aspects of the Culture here.

00:13:18.900 –> 00:13:30.390 Frances Figart: Well, you mentioned that because we just created a new podcast series that’s called sepia tones and it’s about African American music in appalachia.

00:13:30.960 –> 00:13:47.070 Frances Figart: And the influence that that’s had on the smokies region, in particular, and the co host of that Ted olson and bill Turner are just amazing so it’s under the smoky mountain air podcast series and really worth listening to i’m very excited that we’re.

00:13:47.070 –> 00:13:49.080 Frances Figart: Creating we’re creating that right now.

00:13:49.320 –> 00:13:54.720 Joseph McElroy: Well, I should talk to Mike and see if there’s any synergies and what he’s doing yeah so cool.

00:13:56.040 –> 00:14:02.610 Joseph McElroy: So we’re back, we have taken a break now we’ll talk more about articles and publications and books.

00:17:01.980 –> 00:17:09.990 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin mcilroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcast with my guest Francis fiber.

00:17:12.060 –> 00:17:25.500 Joseph McElroy: So, before I get into you know more about the the great smoky areas specifically you know we talked about ECO tourism, you talked about it briefly, can you just tell us what that means you really.

00:17:26.670 –> 00:17:42.150 Frances Figart: yeah a lot of times people describe it as sustainable tourism and really if you think about it, those two things are a bit of a misnomer right because it’s hard to travel sustainably when you’re traveling you’re you’re using fuel and.

00:17:43.380 –> 00:17:51.360 Frances Figart: Lots of our resources but there’s a movement in the travel industry to try to do it that in such a way that it’s light on the land.

00:17:51.810 –> 00:18:03.630 Frances Figart: And a lot of times ECO tourism is focused around very small group travel so, for instance, I worked with a kayak ECO tour operator in both Canada and Costa Rica, we would go back and forth.

00:18:03.930 –> 00:18:11.700 Frances Figart: Depending on the season, because you don’t want to be paddling in Canada when it’s October so that’s when you’d get a Costa Rica and.

00:18:12.690 –> 00:18:20.040 Frances Figart: You know the focus was on small groups that would not make a big impact in the areas that we were paddling.

00:18:20.430 –> 00:18:30.030 Frances Figart: So that’s that’s kind of how I got involved before that I was a magazine editor for the national tour Association, which was more of a motor coach across the US.

00:18:30.540 –> 00:18:44.670 Frances Figart: and Canada type of organization for tour operators and I learned about ECO tourism and natural tourism through that experience and so that is kind of what I gravitated to because I liked the conservation aspect of that work.

00:18:45.270 –> 00:18:47.910 Joseph McElroy: So, and then your podcast you mentioned, with the.

00:18:49.170 –> 00:18:50.130 Joseph McElroy: GS ma.

00:18:51.450 –> 00:18:55.080 Joseph McElroy: talks about ECO ECO tourism experiences of people could have.

00:18:56.070 –> 00:19:07.380 Frances Figart: We haven’t gotten into that topic yet, but that’s a really good idea and I think we should have been focusing recently on, as I mentioned the sepia tones the black appalachian music.

00:19:08.400 –> 00:19:19.320 Frances Figart: Focus but we’ve also had podcasts that have been readings by some of our smokies life magazine authors and you know we’ve explored other programs in the park but.

00:19:19.770 –> 00:19:30.840 Frances Figart: You know, eco tourism has not been mentioned a lot in my job, yet, but it’s something that’s always in the back of my mind, because we do have a lot of congestion and a lot of visitors in the park, you know, we had.

00:19:31.230 –> 00:19:40.920 Frances Figart: 12.5 million visitors in 2019 and then of course last year it fell a little bit because of coven and we were closed part of the year.

00:19:42.120 –> 00:19:55.710 Frances Figart: But this year people feel like parks are the place to be and so each month this year we’ve had some numbers already and we expect to probably tip over that 12.5 million mark during 21.

00:19:56.250 –> 00:19:58.560 Joseph McElroy: Do you if you if somebody wanted to.

00:19:59.790 –> 00:20:00.390 Joseph McElroy: You know.

00:20:01.440 –> 00:20:12.330 Joseph McElroy: engage in ecotourism experience and then the smoky mountains, do you know of any providers or resources or even you know publications that might give them information.

00:20:13.800 –> 00:20:23.250 Frances Figart: Absolutely, there are a lot of great ecotourism operators out there, and one in particular that I think of right off the BAT is Tara in Terra.

00:20:23.790 –> 00:20:36.720 Frances Figart: incognita ECO tours and that’s run by Judd katich and he’s a friend longtime friend and he does skirt trips to all kinds of wonderful places where ECO tourism, tourism has done.

00:20:37.470 –> 00:20:38.400 Joseph McElroy: fabulous i’m.

00:20:40.080 –> 00:20:45.750 Joseph McElroy: glad about that i’m wanting you know where we are at the motel where the only we’re actually the only.

00:20:46.350 –> 00:21:05.550 Joseph McElroy: Three pine lodging facility west of asheville and three partners graded by the Sydney according to you know North Carolina sustainable ECO ECO friendly and so we’ve taken a lot of effort to be and so we’re looking at how to develop more eco tour, so I guess.

00:21:06.240 –> 00:21:07.230 Joseph McElroy: So anyway right I.

00:21:07.830 –> 00:21:09.390 Frances Figart: connect you with some people.

00:21:09.480 –> 00:21:23.550 Joseph McElroy: cool that’d be fabulous so you’ve written scores of articles for well known publications around the region and now you’re the creative service director, the GA s ma so tell us a little bit about this organization and what what that job means.

00:21:24.810 –> 00:21:31.860 Frances Figart: Right well so great smoky mountains association is one of several part partners and we’re an educational park partner.

00:21:32.220 –> 00:21:47.040 Frances Figart: So we support the park through creating products and selling them and Joseph you probably know that you know the park in the smokies doesn’t charge an entrance fee like some parks and so there’s always that challenge of how do they.

00:21:48.090 –> 00:21:54.240 Frances Figart: generate the income to take care of the backlog of maintenance and all the different things that need to be done for the park.

00:21:54.660 –> 00:22:03.870 Frances Figart: So we create books and magazines and other products, and we also sell other books in our bookstores that are run by great smoky mountains association.

00:22:04.320 –> 00:22:12.840 Frances Figart: And those funds come together to help support the park to do many different things like we talked about earlier telling the stories.

00:22:13.260 –> 00:22:18.390 Frances Figart: Of the peoples who were here before or preserving the historic buildings in the park.

00:22:19.080 –> 00:22:28.950 Frances Figart: Just things like utilities for visitors we help to provide that, so there are so many things that go into how we support our our park and as a partner.

00:22:29.520 –> 00:22:37.200 Frances Figart: And we, you know, there are other partners like discover life in America that I mentioned, and they have other projects that they work on but we’re.

00:22:38.070 –> 00:22:47.610 Frances Figart: serving in a way that that we sell our products in the bookstore so anytime you visit the park and you go into one of the bookstores that’s great smoky mountains association.

00:22:48.030 –> 00:22:55.560 Joseph McElroy: You also I know this for a fact, because I am one you’ve developed a pretty large network of resellers right that actually.

00:22:55.860 –> 00:22:57.930 Joseph McElroy: support you and selling those.

00:22:58.590 –> 00:23:08.100 Joseph McElroy: Are smokies adventure COM site actually sells the DSM a products and we you know we try to package, a little different and things like that, but.

00:23:09.210 –> 00:23:11.730 Joseph McElroy: we’re we’re an avid supporter of that.

00:23:12.090 –> 00:23:18.450 Frances Figart: Well that’s great and we welcome you and you know it’s interesting because we are basically a very boutique publisher.

00:23:19.380 –> 00:23:29.100 Frances Figart: of books, you know it’s something that we we don’t do that publishing exclusively we do so many other things in running our bookstores and our retail is really our bread and butter.

00:23:29.910 –> 00:23:37.860 Frances Figart: But we create a couple of books every year and this year, the new book from gma is the one that I wrote called a search for safe passage.

00:23:38.250 –> 00:23:44.670 Joseph McElroy: cool well, I know I will talk about that in just a second I think it’s a great book, but I think another big thing that you guys do.

00:23:45.090 –> 00:23:54.540 Joseph McElroy: Is that you create maps and guides right, not just the books, I mean the books are great I mean you talk about like moonshine you talking about women in the appalachian you talk about.

00:23:54.870 –> 00:24:01.380 Joseph McElroy: You know all sorts of different cultural aspects that people don’t necessarily think of, and then you get into herbal medicine and.

00:24:01.920 –> 00:24:16.530 Joseph McElroy: You know and wildlife and many things you just the selection is is great, but you do wonderful guides and great maps and hiking hiking trail maps and things like that you just released the hundred trails that is a.

00:24:16.680 –> 00:24:17.280 classic.

00:24:18.450 –> 00:24:23.790 Joseph McElroy: classic classic and an updated and everything and that’s that’s a good seller.

00:24:25.500 –> 00:24:34.200 Frances Figart: Sales map which was originally a partnership between gma and the Carolina mountain club and we’ve just revitalized it and brought it up to date.

00:24:34.590 –> 00:24:43.140 Frances Figart: Which is very exciting and there’s a new challenge from cmc Carolina mountain club for people to hike all of those 100 favorite trails so that’s pretty neat.

00:24:43.500 –> 00:24:50.220 Frances Figart: And we do have a lot of guidebooks and you know people who are not watching this can’t see it but behind me there’s a poster.

00:24:50.520 –> 00:24:55.920 Frances Figart: That shows 100 different butterflies and Moss and they’re all in our butterflies and months field guide.

00:24:56.340 –> 00:25:08.820 Frances Figart: Which is just one of many field guides right now we’re creating a new one that’s all about just insects and that’s being written by James Costa of the Highlands biological station which is in color we.

00:25:09.540 –> 00:25:18.360 Joseph McElroy: yeah well that’s great I mean I think these are wonderful assets and you also the editor of smokies life magazine what is that what is the purpose of that magazine.

00:25:18.990 –> 00:25:31.710 Frances Figart: That magazine is the main benefit that are members of gma get in the mail twice a year, and thank goodness it’s twice a year because i’ve worked on a lot of monthly magazines and you really can’t do anything else.

00:25:32.460 –> 00:25:42.660 Frances Figart: One time I was like Conference, and when I was with the national tour association, so people came up to my booth at a conference and they said we’re just curious What do you do in between issues.

00:25:45.090 –> 00:25:49.380 Joseph McElroy: But now you look at it it’s so beautiful right it’s such a beautiful magazine.

00:25:49.860 –> 00:25:52.920 Frances Figart: It really is and that’s thanks to my staff, I have an.

00:25:52.920 –> 00:26:03.090 Frances Figart: amazing on staff that Lisa horseman is the lead designer on that magazine she’s also a famous children’s author and we sell her books, you might have some of her books.

00:26:03.720 –> 00:26:16.290 Frances Figart: The great smoky mountain salamander ball is one that you probably have, and you know that that magazine is just a lot of fun, but yeah it takes the full six months because you are doing a lot of things to make it happen.

00:26:18.300 –> 00:26:32.520 Joseph McElroy: So, and you know the you know the the things that are the contents are like bike days in caves cove park faces up faces up to over tourism twin creek science, education, a lot of wonderful stuff there.

00:26:34.020 –> 00:26:49.080 Frances Figart: Paul has an article in this one I don’t know if you notice that, but he wrote a story about two of the heroes of the smokies Georgian Elizabeth ellison and so Bob and Janet mckee read that together, and it was a great story.

00:26:49.380 –> 00:26:56.940 Joseph McElroy: Oh that’s great oh yeah Well, no, I think it’s and it’s and it’s so that’s mostly I said you don’t distribute it anywhere else right.

00:26:57.540 –> 00:27:09.060 Frances Figart: it’s in our book stores, and you can buy it at smokies information.org so if you’re not a Member, you can go online it’s smokies information to Oregon by it, but we encourage you to be a Member for just 30 bucks a year.

00:27:10.170 –> 00:27:11.160 Joseph McElroy: Okay cool.

00:27:12.420 –> 00:27:12.870 Joseph McElroy: So.

00:27:13.950 –> 00:27:21.480 Joseph McElroy: You when you talk about the DSM maybe an educational park partner Besides supporting it with money, what does that mean.

00:27:22.620 –> 00:27:31.830 Frances Figart: um so you know, like, I mentioned the proceeds from our books and products provide services for visitors and we fund resource management of the park.

00:27:32.700 –> 00:27:42.030 Frances Figart: We make it possible for the park to preserve his historic structures and tell those older stories of the cherokee and the African Americans who were here before.

00:27:42.510 –> 00:27:51.030 Frances Figart: We help educate our members and part visitors about natural and cultural heritage of the smokies through those projects okay.

00:27:51.810 –> 00:27:52.170 well.

00:27:53.610 –> 00:28:04.200 Joseph McElroy: When we get back you have you have a new book called this, you will be have two books that we wanted to talk about briefly seasons of letting go, which I mentioned, and then I think, a very important one now.

00:28:04.800 –> 00:28:10.170 Joseph McElroy: search for safe passage which was a children’s book has got a pretty important message to talk about.

00:28:11.220 –> 00:28:14.820 Joseph McElroy: And so let’s dig into the meat of that when we get back.

00:28:15.540 –> 00:28:16.200 Frances Figart: sounds good.

00:28:24.420 –> 00:28:24.630 and

00:31:05.970 –> 00:31:14.640 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin McElroy and i’m back with the gateway to the smokies podcasts and My guess Francis.

00:31:16.320 –> 00:31:17.550 Joseph McElroy: Francis you know we.

00:31:18.720 –> 00:31:29.730 Joseph McElroy: been talking about you know your job and let’s talk about your creativity all right, which is even your job demonstrates your creativity you’re the author of two books.

00:31:30.240 –> 00:31:39.510 Joseph McElroy: And the first one, I got to read a little bit of and because it was formatted as a series of poignant collection of essays.

00:31:40.380 –> 00:31:48.120 Joseph McElroy: I was able to actually get her, I think a little bit of an understanding and it’s called seasons of letting go, which was about helping your mother die.

00:31:48.600 –> 00:32:03.300 Joseph McElroy: A dignified death and how you learn from that your mother was a ruthie, I think, and she was a baseball fan, and she sounds like a tremendous woman, and so, can you tell us a little bit of that book came about.

00:32:03.720 –> 00:32:07.830 Frances Figart: Sure thing so her name is Ruth and that he is silent.

00:32:08.160 –> 00:32:08.760 Okay.

00:32:09.900 –> 00:32:16.740 Frances Figart: When she was born, she was named just the normal, are you Th but she’d like to be different so she wanted to put a silent E on it.

00:32:17.700 –> 00:32:18.660 Joseph McElroy: Okay, great.

00:32:18.900 –> 00:32:22.680 Frances Figart: My middle name is free to so I have the silent E as well.

00:32:22.920 –> 00:32:23.940 Joseph McElroy: Can I call you ruthie.

00:32:27.960 –> 00:32:28.290 Frances Figart: But.

00:32:28.590 –> 00:32:35.910 Frances Figart: The book, you know I I tell people I kind of tricked myself into writing a book, because what happened was in 2010.

00:32:36.390 –> 00:32:45.690 Frances Figart: I put my career on hold and I went home and I realized, I was going to need to be with my mom for as long as it was going to take, and it was about two years, just like your experience.

00:32:46.380 –> 00:32:55.740 Frances Figart: And so I didn’t know really how to cope with you know how this is your your loving this person, but you also have this big job.

00:32:56.640 –> 00:33:04.410 Frances Figart: You know it’s like you’re you’re doing the caregiving thing and so it’s 24 seven you don’t get a break there’s really no escape from the stress of it.

00:33:04.740 –> 00:33:15.510 Frances Figart: So I think to process that stress I started a blog and I started writing essays just about coping with the fact that i’m going to lose my mother and i’m the sole caregiver, and this was really hard.

00:33:16.890 –> 00:33:29.040 Frances Figart: And it wasn’t until several years after she was gone that I realized that some of my best writing had been done, both during the time she was dying and also my processing the first year of grief.

00:33:29.790 –> 00:33:38.850 Frances Figart: Especially that first year, and so in 2015 I realized that I had a group of essays that I really just wanted to put together as a book.

00:33:39.240 –> 00:33:43.380 Frances Figart: And in really for me my audience was the people who knew my mother.

00:33:43.680 –> 00:33:53.310 Frances Figart: That probably would not go look at my blog site and look up all these essays on there, because they were older people, they were in her age group, so I wanted to present them with something.

00:33:53.610 –> 00:34:00.780 Frances Figart: And i’m holding the book up right now it’s got a scene that’s much like your background Joseph and you know I.

00:34:02.430 –> 00:34:12.960 Frances Figart: yeah I wanted it to be something that people could hold in their hand and have a good feeling about her life so it’s a tribute to her, but it’s also a tribute to what you were talking about earlier, which is that we.

00:34:13.230 –> 00:34:25.530 Frances Figart: have to reinvent ourselves, and we have to disassociate our identity as being with that person it, you know, even though I really felt strongly that my end identity was wrapped up with being Ruth fibroids daughter.

00:34:26.070 –> 00:34:31.140 Frances Figart: I had to go on and say I can be more than that, I can be different from that and still honor her.

00:34:32.160 –> 00:34:36.720 Joseph McElroy: That is a that is a, that is, I think that’s important for a lot of people to.

00:34:37.410 –> 00:34:47.580 Joseph McElroy: To to understand that you know, I think that I, you know I had some friends that actually it was kind of odd, but at the same time they’d lost their lives, maybe one of the year before.

00:34:47.970 –> 00:35:05.970 Joseph McElroy: And then never you know when I saw them they had they hadn’t progressed in their lives, and some of them still haven’t and they haven’t lost that and that they haven’t realized that they got to bury their identity, their grieving their identity as much as they’re grieving the person.

00:35:06.330 –> 00:35:13.890 Frances Figart: yeah and I think, as you continue to read that book you’re going to see that there’s a place where I went through that that same thing, where you know you just.

00:35:14.220 –> 00:35:21.900 Frances Figart: You finally let go and the experience of caregiving, I think, is one that you that’s where I really learned that I wasn’t in control.

00:35:22.500 –> 00:35:31.620 Frances Figart: Because you know I am kind of a control freak and that helps me to be successful and things like building production schedules for magazines or setting a time limit, you know to do a book.

00:35:31.950 –> 00:35:39.390 Frances Figart: And that type of thing, but ultimately we have no control and when you’re a caregiver and someone’s dying that’s when you really learn that lesson.

00:35:39.780 –> 00:35:41.880 Frances Figart: And then, when you start to let go.

00:35:42.060 –> 00:35:48.690 Frances Figart: For me it is if you’re really able to realize your destiny, because you don’t push so hard for what you want.

00:35:49.110 –> 00:35:58.080 Frances Figart: You don’t get that friction anymore you just align with destiny and then the two of you can just sore out into space and that’s really what’s happened for me since I lost my mom.

00:35:58.500 –> 00:35:58.770 Frances Figart: And I.

00:35:58.920 –> 00:36:04.470 Frances Figart: said I could show her that I finally got it but it’s Okay, I think she knows.

00:36:05.250 –> 00:36:14.640 Joseph McElroy: I you know the same way, I feel like I have guardian angels that I didn’t have before things have gone in surprising ways for me in my life, since then, so.

00:36:15.840 –> 00:36:18.780 Joseph McElroy: it’s, it is a carpet experience right.

00:36:19.590 –> 00:36:23.670 Frances Figart: yeah it’s cathartic and you know you probably have had the same feeling too, but.

00:36:24.090 –> 00:36:37.440 Frances Figart: i’ve been a little sad that my husband didn’t get to meet my parents, but then, in some ways it’s almost as if his energy continues their own and it’s almost like it doesn’t matter because it feels like he was a part of them, and they were part of him.

00:36:37.800 –> 00:36:55.500 Joseph McElroy: yeah you know I have, I have a wife and two the two twin children now yeah I have an older son, but but it definitely feels like this, this long journey that just changed, but you know there’s a similar similar there’s a sort of energy that goes through.

00:36:57.120 –> 00:37:01.500 Joseph McElroy: So now you got a second book come it’s got a completely different direction.

00:37:01.950 –> 00:37:03.900 Joseph McElroy: That just came out last month.

00:37:04.950 –> 00:37:16.200 Joseph McElroy: it’s a children’s book and with a special cause pertaining to the smokies is search for say passions and can you tell me two things, what is it about why came about and why did you make it a children’s.

00:37:16.920 –> 00:37:19.530 Frances Figart: Okay that’s you know it’s going to take me a second so.

00:37:21.120 –> 00:37:28.020 Frances Figart: When I first moved from asheville up to the area where I live in now the closest highway here is I 26.

00:37:28.590 –> 00:37:34.890 Frances Figart: And I was disturbed to see a lot of our iconic black bears getting killed on this highway.

00:37:35.580 –> 00:37:44.850 Frances Figart: And so, when I got my job in the smokies I was able to connect with some people who were having a discussion about a similar problem just outside the park boundary.

00:37:45.570 –> 00:37:54.120 Frances Figart: And it’s an area, called the pigeon river gorge it’s a 28 mile stretch of road that’s really twisty if you’ve ever driven between asheville and knoxville.

00:37:54.900 –> 00:38:02.430 Frances Figart: been on this really curvy section of road and eight miles is in Tennessee and 20 miles is in western North Carolina.

00:38:02.820 –> 00:38:09.180 Frances Figart: And way too many bear and deer and elk and other smaller animals are killed there every year.

00:38:09.420 –> 00:38:17.280 Frances Figart: Now there’s a lot of statistics rolling around, but the data hasn’t all been crunched yet some people say as many as 70 bears have been killed there in one year.

00:38:17.580 –> 00:38:24.390 Frances Figart: We don’t really know those things, yet the research is still being completed, but what we know is that there are way too many.

00:38:24.750 –> 00:38:32.880 Frances Figart: And so I became a part of this group, and at that time it wasn’t called anything, it was just several organizations working together.

00:38:33.510 –> 00:38:42.600 Frances Figart: To try to find a solution, and now there are as many as 20 organizations, some of them governmental some of them non governmental some of them tribal.

00:38:43.020 –> 00:38:51.540 Frances Figart: All kinds of agencies working together to try to solve the problem and six of those have created a safe passage fund coalition.

00:38:51.810 –> 00:39:02.700 Frances Figart: And we’ve branded the project as the safe passage I 40 pigeon river gorge wildlife crossing project now we’re working towards getting some wildlife crossings to.

00:39:03.090 –> 00:39:07.890 Frances Figart: Be in that region but that’s something that takes years sometimes to accomplish.

00:39:08.400 –> 00:39:16.050 Frances Figart: And so, why a children’s book to me i’m thinking of 11 and 12 year olds who are reading this book now.

00:39:16.470 –> 00:39:22.770 Frances Figart: are going to inherit the problems that we have with our roads needing to consider wildlife and how they need to cross.

00:39:23.190 –> 00:39:33.060 Frances Figart: And so, in 12 more years those kids reading it will be the new road ecologist they will be the highway engineers that will help to solve these problems.

00:39:33.750 –> 00:39:47.070 Frances Figart: Because we’re networking with people who have been working on these problems for a decade and they still have a broken ground because it takes that long to get it all together so that’s why the kids book concept really works.

00:39:48.330 –> 00:39:56.490 Joseph McElroy: I read it a little bit of it, I love the way you’ve sort of made it into an adventure story for the kids right.

00:39:57.540 –> 00:40:11.880 Joseph McElroy: it’s sort of an adventure the animals are you know they they they they all have their own personalities and they meet together, you know they have you have different groups that come together and have to know who they are, and there’s also a sort of a almost.

00:40:13.020 –> 00:40:17.370 Joseph McElroy: A mythological element to it yeah it’s got a little bit of magic in it.

00:40:17.850 –> 00:40:29.310 Frances Figart: yeah I am I was really inspired by the cherokee writings of the myths where they would talk about animals as just bear or deer or firefly.

00:40:30.060 –> 00:40:36.660 Frances Figart: They would just have the animals name, and so the animals in this book just have that that very simple mythological name.

00:40:37.500 –> 00:40:47.160 Frances Figart: But there’s a band of animals that join together in this cause to try to find safe passage and they meet some new friends, and they have some adventures, and some of its kind of scary.

00:40:48.030 –> 00:40:56.730 Frances Figart: But it’s not in your face graphic you know, there are some animals in it that have been killed on the human highway but we don’t see that happen it’s more of a memory.

00:40:56.970 –> 00:41:03.270 Frances Figart: That an animal has of their parent who has been killed, their or their brother or sister or friend who’s been killed on the human highway.

00:41:03.750 –> 00:41:13.950 Frances Figart: And they have a law called turtles law that prevents them from crossing anymore, and that illustrates a concept and wrote ecology that’s called the barrier effect.

00:41:14.340 –> 00:41:21.510 Frances Figart: And so, when animals decide not to try to cross anymore that’s actually even worse than when you’re seeing individual animals get hit.

00:41:21.840 –> 00:41:36.600 Frances Figart: Because the species is then in under threat and it’s not getting what it needs to thrive and species, you know diversity can’t happen animals interbreed and, eventually, they could be come extinct or be extirpated.

00:41:37.200 –> 00:41:45.300 Joseph McElroy: yeah you know I also think that about half the book is about the story, but then I think the other half is you have.

00:41:46.080 –> 00:41:53.250 Joseph McElroy: yeah a lot of information, like almost like a little bit like encyclopedia but you know approachable encyclopedia information about the types of.

00:41:53.550 –> 00:41:56.940 Joseph McElroy: crossings, I mean there’s incredible amount there’s there’s culverts there’s.

00:41:57.270 –> 00:42:09.030 Joseph McElroy: You know the square openings there’s bridges there’s you know there’s grass things over the top, I thought that was really sort of you know, actually fascinating that you put all that additional information in there.

00:42:09.510 –> 00:42:16.140 Joseph McElroy: yeah it’s a thorough education and fun book for children so i’m gonna get it for my children at the appropriate age.

00:42:16.740 –> 00:42:20.970 Frances Figart: I appreciate that, and you know I worked with a lot of scientists who know.

00:42:21.450 –> 00:42:33.720 Frances Figart: How to build these structures and and it’s just kind of distilling the information that they have down to the most basic level so that someone like a fifth grader can understand it, but that’s also the level that a lot of us need we don’t.

00:42:33.960 –> 00:42:44.100 Frances Figart: We don’t know how to build these box culverts and bridge extensions and things either, so I think it’s very accessible for adults that are just becoming acquainted with the road ecology concepts to.

00:42:44.400 –> 00:42:54.990 Joseph McElroy: yeah I think it’s an easy read for an adult to just sort of get the story, but then there’s the information that actually makes it yeah you get adult information in a in a digestible form.

00:42:55.530 –> 00:43:03.390 Joseph McElroy: For the second half of that book, I was, I was pleasantly you know excited so it’s very beautifully illustrated, who did your illustrations.

00:43:03.780 –> 00:43:17.040 Frances Figart: So the illustrator is named Emma do for and she’s on my staff at great smoky mountains association she’s a publication specialist who came to the smokies a lot as a child and then was determined to move to the smokies and work there.

00:43:17.790 –> 00:43:29.400 Frances Figart: her story is a brilliant one, but this was her first book to design and illustrate and she’s done a remarkable job and Did it really rapidly, we did all of this during coven you know the book.

00:43:30.030 –> 00:43:38.070 Frances Figart: I wrote the book from March to May last year and then mo worked on the illustration, and we basically got it published within about a nine month window.

00:43:38.700 –> 00:43:49.020 Joseph McElroy: Okay fabulous well when we come back we’ll talk a little bit more about you know aspects of your job, and you know, and then you know other things that people can find out about you.

00:43:50.880 –> 00:43:52.650 Frances Figart: Okay, thank you know.

00:46:08.430 –> 00:46:29.190 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin mcilroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcast and my guest Francis fight guy so Francis you mentioned coven giving you the time to actually write this new book, but how is coven impact your world and the park itself.

00:46:30.390 –> 00:46:43.350 Frances Figart: very good question you know the park went through some really scary times when coven first started and we found that not only did the park need to close, but we gma needed to close our visitor centers.

00:46:43.770 –> 00:46:54.120 Frances Figart: To be able to keep our staff, safe and then we actually even had to close our warehouse where the online orders are filled and we do large online business.

00:46:54.690 –> 00:46:58.770 Frances Figart: But it wasn’t safe, and so we we lost some ground, it was a little scary.

00:46:59.430 –> 00:47:08.940 Frances Figart: But we went into the year in a really good place financially, and so one of the things that happened that was very interesting was we had this challenge and figuring out How can people.

00:47:09.420 –> 00:47:18.900 Frances Figart: Stay connected to the park virtually since they can’t come there that’s really what our members and the people that follow Jesus, and they wanted was to be able to feel connected.

00:47:19.320 –> 00:47:25.050 Frances Figart: And so my staff had all these wonderful creative ideas, because they’re such innovators, you know they’re like we can do.

00:47:25.380 –> 00:47:32.130 Frances Figart: All these different things, and so I decided to channel all of their ideas through a blog called smokies live.

00:47:32.520 –> 00:47:43.110 Frances Figart: And smokies live can be found at smokies information.org as soon as you go to our website at pops up and it’s basically a blog that we started during coven.

00:47:43.590 –> 00:47:55.860 Frances Figart: And we’ve been able to maintain it and we post almost daily, if not four or five times a week we have stories coming up on smokies live that make it like a sister publication, to the magazine smokies life.

00:47:56.400 –> 00:48:00.600 Frances Figart: And we have many people that write for it, much of it is contributed.

00:48:01.200 –> 00:48:08.670 Frances Figart: If there are people out there listening he loved to write about the smokies they could even contact me and write for smokies live and it’s a communal effort.

00:48:08.910 –> 00:48:20.130 Frances Figart: So that’s been a really great way that we’ve survived the pandemic, because we really help people to connect with the park seeing videos and learning about the natural, cultural history through smokies live.

00:48:20.790 –> 00:48:35.310 Frances Figart: has really been an amazing part of it, and then also we’ve developed a lot of tools that have helped us with staying in close touch, as you have to do remotely so zoom meetings are one tool we use a program called slack that is.

00:48:35.730 –> 00:48:48.450 Frances Figart: A way to have conversations about all the different projects and in a very much real time, so my team of six we’ve really stayed very, very close and even become more efficient and effective during the pandemic.

00:48:49.080 –> 00:48:51.420 Joseph McElroy: You mentioned the tools of mine in life right now.

00:48:54.210 –> 00:49:02.520 Joseph McElroy: So, you know as an aside, I have you know, I have a bunch of travel writers, because of my business, so I will get some of them to send you some stuff.

00:49:03.000 –> 00:49:11.610 Joseph McElroy: And if you need the promotion of your blog we can I have some pretty good blogs and good good you know you probably know, this word by now seo position.

00:49:12.630 –> 00:49:18.600 Joseph McElroy: And we could give you a little authority to some of the articles, if you want to reach out and particularly promote one or two of them.

00:49:19.050 –> 00:49:21.570 Frances Figart: So this is a fortuitous partnership.

00:49:21.570 –> 00:49:23.220 Joseph McElroy: yeah definitely.

00:49:25.590 –> 00:49:33.600 Joseph McElroy: So, other than the writing part which i’m assuming you love, what are the other favorite aspects of the job helping preserve and protect the smoke.

00:49:34.440 –> 00:49:46.200 Frances Figart: Well, you know I just think about the things I get to do every day are things that I would do whether I had this job or not like I spent today listening to the audio version of a search for safe passage.

00:49:46.500 –> 00:49:59.580 Frances Figart: Which is being read by a wonderful author and audio expert named rose help and she’s out in scottsdale and she recorded my book, and so my job today was really largely.

00:50:00.060 –> 00:50:16.260 Frances Figart: surrounding listening to my book read by her and just making a few little tweaks of where I wanted her to read like the firefly voice a little differently or you know, whatever was you know I wanted elke says, I am L and I wanted that to be really low, and you know.

00:50:17.070 –> 00:50:18.360 Frances Figart: Things like that, where I would like.

00:50:18.450 –> 00:50:27.090 Frances Figart: adjust the way she said something and but it’s a beautiful reading of my book, she is not native American but her voice sounds native.

00:50:27.540 –> 00:50:36.480 Frances Figart: And I love that aspect of it so i’m so excited so I get to do things in my job that just feel like creative projects, they don’t feel like work to me.

00:50:36.930 –> 00:50:47.520 Frances Figart: And I love writing and editing and i’ve often felt like I would, if I if someone said, you could only write or you could only edit I would pick editing because i’m love it and i’m really good at it.

00:50:47.970 –> 00:50:59.070 Frances Figart: But i’ve become more of a writer throughout the last few years and I don’t think I could stand to have that go away, so I think I have to keep both writing and editing as part of what I do.

00:50:59.400 –> 00:51:10.620 Joseph McElroy: that’s fabulous you know they I was persuaded to get into podcasting my some of my marketing people said I had the perfect voice for day with the smokies now i’ve got another podcast and I love the creative aspect.

00:51:11.280 –> 00:51:11.520 Frances Figart: Well, I.

00:51:11.820 –> 00:51:14.820 Frances Figart: wish everyone could see your shirt because it’s so bright.

00:51:14.820 –> 00:51:19.020 Frances Figart: And cool, so this is great that you have some people that are able to view this.

00:51:19.650 –> 00:51:21.330 Joseph McElroy: So you got any books in the plans.

00:51:22.170 –> 00:51:27.900 Frances Figart: Well, actually it’s funny that you should ask that, because one of the things I really want to get working on here soon.

00:51:28.230 –> 00:51:41.040 Frances Figart: After I added about seven more smokies life stories for fall, is that I have a sequel plan to a search for safe passage and the working title is zoe’s gift to the gorge.

00:51:41.610 –> 00:51:53.100 Frances Figart: And it’s going to be in the end of a search for safe passage the elk tells the animals, what we have to do now is communicate to the humans what it is that we need in terms of wildlife crossings.

00:51:53.460 –> 00:52:00.270 Frances Figart: And so the next book is going to have the central figure Zoe, who is a girl that has some very special gifts.

00:52:00.600 –> 00:52:10.650 Frances Figart: And she’s going to get to spend some time up in the gorge with the animals on her own and learn from them what they need, and then she’ll be able to communicate that out to the others.

00:52:10.950 –> 00:52:22.710 Joseph McElroy: Oh fabulous so you can find your new book safe search for safe passage of smokies information.org I, we will probably also soon have it on smokies adventure COM.

00:52:24.570 –> 00:52:38.550 Joseph McElroy: You can also become a member of the great smoky mountains association at smokies information.org and it’s a great way to support and protect the park park her first book Francis first book is seasons of letting goes available on Amazon.

00:52:40.110 –> 00:52:50.850 Joseph McElroy: And spunky safe passions.org is where you can go to learn all about safe passage the I 40 pigeon river gorge wildlife crossing project.

00:52:51.480 –> 00:52:59.370 Joseph McElroy: yeah and then you can go to Francis fig art.com to find out more about Francis and you have some social media to write.

00:52:59.910 –> 00:53:06.120 Frances Figart: i’m on Facebook, mostly i’m on linkedin a little bit, but find me on Facebook i’d love to have some new friends.

00:53:06.630 –> 00:53:14.250 Joseph McElroy: And we’ll put all this information up on the gateway to the smoky so fun so you’ll be able to find it there.

00:53:15.510 –> 00:53:25.440 Joseph McElroy: And that is the gateway to swell and Francis I want to thank you for being a part of the show i’m gonna do a little close out now my stuff but I appreciate very much talking to you.

00:53:27.210 –> 00:53:40.290 Joseph McElroy: Thank you, so you can you can go to gateways to the smokies fun to find all sorts of information about this podcast when we post things that our guests, have mentioned and and want to promote.

00:53:41.520 –> 00:53:48.420 Joseph McElroy: And, and you can also subscribe to a newsletter that will let you know about upcoming events and podcasts.

00:53:48.900 –> 00:53:56.610 Joseph McElroy: Now I want you to imagine a place evocative motor cortex of the past yeah modern and vibrant with a chic appalachian field.

00:53:57.090 –> 00:54:06.810 Joseph McElroy: a place for adventure and full relaxation imagine a place where you can fish and a mountain heritage trout scream grill the catch on fire.

00:54:07.230 –> 00:54:20.580 Joseph McElroy: and eat accompanied by fine wine or craft beers imagine a place of the old time music and world cultural sounds, there is no other place like the middle Arc motel and Maggie valley North Carolina.

00:54:21.600 –> 00:54:28.170 Joseph McElroy: and part of the great smoky mountains National Park your smoky mountain adventure starts with where you stay.

00:54:29.610 –> 00:54:47.610 Joseph McElroy: I want to mention, we are part of the talk radio nyc network, it is a great network of podcasts focused on the New York area, but it also syndicated out to a lot of other places around.

00:54:48.870 –> 00:54:55.620 Joseph McElroy: I think, right after this podcast live on Tuesday nights is a podcast exploring New York.

00:54:56.760 –> 00:55:03.330 Joseph McElroy: And I think it’s a really nice episode, so you go from a rural environment to urban environment.

00:55:04.470 –> 00:55:09.360 Joseph McElroy: So please stick around listen to everything on this network.

00:55:10.770 –> 00:55:26.250 Joseph McElroy: Next week we’re going to have MC butch McCain, who is a retired ranger from the park service, and he has a lot of experience in the smoky mountains, I think it’ll be a great show, and you can come by and visit same time from.

00:55:26.910 –> 00:55:32.970 Joseph McElroy: from six to seven on Tuesday night next week and we also have a Facebook page.

00:55:33.480 –> 00:55:50.340 Joseph McElroy: Also facebook.com slash gateway to the smokies podcast where we stream the video live, so you can see the video live on Tuesdays as well, so you’ll see my shirt and my background and my beautiful guests, so thank you again and i’ll see you next time.

Our guest is Teresa Smith, Executive Director at Maggie Valley Chamber & Area Visitors Bureau. They will be discussing Maggie Valley in the Smokies.

‍

Tune in for this fun conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.

Joseph starts today’s episode off by introducing the topic of the episode, Maggie Valley. Joseph makes a big announcement about the future of the Meadowlark Motel, they will be opening a heritage center! The previous guest Bob Plott will be running this project with Joseph. Moving on from the project, Joseph introduces the guest for today’s episode, Teresa Smith. Teresa discusses how she began her involvement with the Maggie Valley Chamber of Commerce & Area Visitors Bureau. Teresa continues by talking about her love for Maggie Valley. Joseph shares this love of Maggie Valley and gives an anecdote explaining the feeling of the area. Along with the business side of her job, Teresa loves interacting with people. Joseph shares a story showing Teresa’s love for the people and the mountain charm of the people in the area. Teresa discusses some of the services and programs the chamber offers guests of the park.

Coming back from the break, Joseph asks Teresa to talk about the origin of the name Maggie Valley. Teresa tells the story of a man who opened a post office and when asked for the name of the town, gave his daughter’s name. There is a Miss Maggie, who previously has walked around town picking up trash, but now, May through October walks around waving to guests and residents alike. The mascot of Miss Maggie sets Maggie Valley apart from other towns as their mascots are often animals. Teresa describes the growth of the town, which coincided with the opening of Ghost Town. Ghost Town is a theme park on top of a mountain, which brought tourists and residents to the area. In the ’90s though, Ghost Town started fading out of the mainstream. Teresa often receives calls asking about a ghost town, reminiscing fond memories of it before its closing in 2012. There are plans for Ghost Town though as it recently transferred owners.

Joseph discusses the revival of the town of Maggie Valley beyond Ghost Town and asks Teresa why she thinks this is going on. Teresa sees the boom going on in the town as a result of the calming feel of the town as opposed to some other parts of the park. The two discuss activities to do within the town. Moving on, the two discuss motorcycles in the town. The traffic they have brought with festivals and museums has helped the town. Moving on from motorcycles, Teresa and Joseph discuss the presence of breweries in the town. Teresa goes on to share info about upcoming events at the festival grounds such as drive-in movies and car shows. There have also been drive-in concerts at the festival grounds, which have been very popular. The people of Maggie Valley love their biking, taking advantage of the bike trails in the park. Joseph makes a note of the interesting fact that “ATV” is the most searched term on his website with resources about the park.

Joseph introduces the last segment of the episode by introducing the topic of safety in the town. Teresa continues on the topic by sharing how safe she feels in the town, with Joseph joking that he would feel ok leaving his car unlocked with the keys in it. Teresa has been very impressed with the businesses in the town’s reaction to the COVID pandemic, staying very safe and following guidelines. Tourism in Maggie Valley has increased since the town opened back up, likely as a result of the town being so remote. The two discuss the locations most tourists come from, citing New York and Florida as big contributors. Moving on, Teresa talks about the future for Maggie Valley, noting that tourism will likely remain busy, with hotels preparing for a busy summer. Teresa shares resources for listeners to find upcoming events in the Valley and details about them. Joseph ends the episode by sharing his own resources.

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00:00:36.150 –> 00:00:42.000 Joseph McElroy: howdy thanks for joining us on this week’s episode of gateway to the smokies.

00:00:42.510 –> 00:00:50.670 Joseph McElroy: This podcast is about America’s most visited National Park, the great smoky mountains national park, and surrounding towns.

00:00:51.090 –> 00:01:01.170 Joseph McElroy: This area is filled with ancient natural beauty a deep story history and a rich mountain culture that we will explore with weekly episodes.

00:01:01.770 –> 00:01:16.170 Joseph McElroy: I’m Joseph Franklin McElroy a man of the world, but also with deep roots in these mountains My family has lived in the great smokies for over 200 years my businesses in travel, but my heart is in mountain culture.

00:01:17.310 –> 00:01:36.810 Joseph McElroy: Now this episode is entitled ecotourism and safe passage is for wildlife in the smokies but it’s really about journeys to help conservation efforts, the journeys to life that lead to transitions and journeys that wildlife has to make to ensure their species survival.

00:01:38.280 –> 00:01:47.610 Joseph McElroy: You know that journeys are something that I talked about every day my profession has been marketing and, in that we always talk about the customer journey.

00:01:48.060 –> 00:02:08.190 Joseph McElroy: The path they follow and the transitions they make to become paying customers now, this is not a profound journey but it illustrates that even the smallest parts of our lives, we are on journeys the profound journeys create transitions that can be life-changing and even world-changing.

00:02:09.600 –> 00:02:20.610 Joseph McElroy: we’re going to talk some about death, I know this is not expected, but when you travel and celebrate life you’re also preparing for a good death without regrets.

00:02:22.620 –> 00:02:28.830 Joseph McElroy: And my family place that I now own the middle or motel there was an old couple who’d been coming there for years.

00:02:29.760 –> 00:02:37.800 Joseph McElroy: And they called one day and talk to my parents and honestly told them that the woman was dying and wanted to come to stay in the Cabinet and die by the river.

00:02:38.520 –> 00:02:51.900 Joseph McElroy: And the sides of the mountains that had brought such joy her whole life and she did they let her come and she eventually died in peace in the cabin and it was as much as as a celebration, as it was an occasion for SAR.

00:02:53.430 –> 00:03:10.920 Joseph McElroy: And this is one of the reasons I bought the motel from my parents, three years ago, because the profound meeting I found in hospitality that creates memorable moments in people’s lives and their journeys and that make those journeys more beautiful and hopefully without regrets.

00:03:12.090 –> 00:03:19.530 Joseph McElroy: Some of you know, the in 2014 my wife of 20 years died of rare cancer, and I was her caregiver for two years.

00:03:20.280 –> 00:03:29.460 Joseph McElroy: My guest today has a book on life’s lessons learned from helping her mother die, and then it she writes about the hero’s journey by Joseph Campbell.

00:03:30.120 –> 00:03:45.000 Joseph McElroy: How facing obstacles and fighting dragons leads to transformation at first her mother’s death seemed to her to be the end of the journey until she went through her grief and realized her mother was still on a journey for me.

00:03:46.260 –> 00:03:55.800 Joseph McElroy: This brought back memories, because I attended a workshop after my wife’s death in the mountains, called the hero’s journey by just the Joseph Campbell foundation.

00:03:56.610 –> 00:04:11.250 Joseph McElroy: There they led me through an exercise, where I had to write on a gravestone something that I needed to see buried now having just buried my wife, this was something of a challenge for me.

00:04:12.180 –> 00:04:23.940 Joseph McElroy: But through some deep reflection, I wrote on the gravestone Mr and Mrs Joseph mcilroy and laid it down in the ceremony on the mountain side and had my transformational moment.

00:04:24.600 –> 00:04:37.320 Joseph McElroy: Because I realized that I was still thinking of myself, as Mr Mrs Joseph mcilroy and I realized that identity, no longer existed, I was grieving as much.

00:04:38.040 –> 00:04:58.410 Joseph McElroy: For her as for my my identity as as I was, for my late wife and I didn’t need to grieve for that identity, I needed to process the grief for my late wife and then I was no longer Mr Mrs Joseph McElroy I had to proceed as Joseph I had to reinvent a new life.

00:04:59.580 –> 00:05:09.990 Joseph McElroy: Now I still remember today that life and wife, but I am married again I have given life to twins who are two years old and i’ve recovered and refurbish my family’s homestead.

00:05:10.950 –> 00:05:20.940 Joseph McElroy: So I started a brand new journey through that transition, so this so this episode is not about me it’s about journeys.

00:05:21.570 –> 00:05:28.050 Joseph McElroy: And we’re also going to be considering the life and journeys that wildlife has to make because of human civilization.

00:05:28.800 –> 00:05:38.160 Joseph McElroy: And how we can make those journeys safer and life more fulfilling and how we can do conservation efforts and with ecotourism and things like that.

00:05:38.910 –> 00:05:42.750 Joseph McElroy: So, to help us explore this I invited My guess Francis fiber.

00:05:43.410 –> 00:05:53.940 Joseph McElroy: Who directs the creative service department at the great smoky mountains, associations and edits the fabulous smokies life magazine is one of the most beautiful magazines i’ve ever seen.

00:05:54.690 –> 00:06:04.980 Joseph McElroy: She is a Thomas Wolfe memorial literary award winner she has edited edited several magazines, she has led marketing for eco tour operators in Canada and Costa Rica.

00:06:05.520 –> 00:06:15.000 Joseph McElroy: she’s the author of several books, including the seasons of letting go, which is the book I just referenced, and has a new children’s book a search for safe passage.

00:06:15.450 –> 00:06:29.520 Joseph McElroy: which was just published by the great smoky mountains, associations and it follows a group of animal friends in a smoky mountains board brant banding together to find a safe way across the major highway hello, Francis.

00:06:30.150 –> 00:06:32.160 Frances Figart: haters of thanks for having me.

00:06:32.430 –> 00:06:34.470 Joseph McElroy: Oh sure how are you doing today?

00:06:35.190 –> 00:06:41.550 Frances Figart: Doing really well it’s wonderful to be here and I’d like to thank our mutual friend Bob plot for introducing us.

00:06:42.000 –> 00:06:50.910 Joseph McElroy: he’s is, do you know I danced last week we’re actually creating the smoky mountain meadowlark smoky mountain heritage Center and we’re doing.

00:06:51.390 –> 00:06:57.570 Joseph McElroy: Working together to create lots of heritage events and bring lots of awareness of what’s happening in these mountains.

00:06:58.020 –> 00:07:11.490 Joseph McElroy: So you have had a remarkably diverse career and live everywhere from Costa Rica and Canada, yet now live north of actual right and with your life has been on a six-acre property near the Appalachian trail.

00:07:11.850 –> 00:07:14.100 Joseph McElroy: Yes, how did you end up working in the great smoky?

00:07:14.820 –> 00:07:31.860 Frances Figart: So very interesting, so I as you were talking about went through an experience, where I helped my mother passed away in 2012 she died and that next year, I moved to the Asheville area and I met my husband and I.

00:07:32.940 –> 00:07:44.430 Frances Figart: moved to a place that’s just about 40 minutes north of Asheville called flag pond Tennessee which there’s not very much here and that’s why we’re here, there are a lot of cool animals and not very many people.

00:07:45.270 –> 00:07:52.920 Frances Figart: But when I first moved to Asheville I had put my career in ecotourism on hold to help my mother passed away.

00:07:53.370 –> 00:07:58.890 Frances Figart: And so I really was starting over you know it’s very much like you were talking about you kind of reinvented your life.

00:07:59.400 –> 00:08:04.140 Frances Figart: And I went to Asheville I didn’t know anyone I knew to people.

00:08:04.590 –> 00:08:12.540 Frances Figart: And, but i’m a great networker so I stormed into town and said I’m going to become a magazine editor i’m going to be the editor of the Laurel of Asheville which I did that.

00:08:13.020 –> 00:08:27.120 Frances Figart: And I also did some pro bono work for another part partner in the smokies called discover life in America, and they do the all tax of biodiversity inventory, which is a Count of all the species in the park.

00:08:27.720 –> 00:08:39.510 Frances Figart: And so I did some pro bono editing and writing for them and years later, in 2017 the executive director Todd witcher of discover life in America called me one day and said.

00:08:39.990 –> 00:08:43.890 Frances Figart: there’s a job, opening up in the smokies that has your name written all over it.

00:08:44.310 –> 00:08:53.430 Frances Figart: And I said well that’s wonderful, but my husband built our cabin and there’s no way that i’m going to be able to move to the smokies I couldn’t move to gatlinburg.

00:08:53.790 –> 00:08:58.710 Frances Figart: And he said, well, I think you need to have a talk with the executive director I don’t think he would have to move there.

00:08:59.490 –> 00:09:06.930 Frances Figart: Because you know when you work in publishing it can be pretty remote, these days, and so I did have that conversation with.

00:09:07.530 –> 00:09:16.800 Frances Figart: them the executive director and now the CEO Laurel repertory who is my boss, and we decided that if I were the right person for the job that I wouldn’t have to move away so I.

00:09:17.370 –> 00:09:30.720 Frances Figart: I went through all the processes I didn’t expect to get the job, and yet here I am and so all day long I work from home in flight on Tennessee but my mind is two hours away in great smoky mountain National Park.

00:09:31.470 –> 00:09:38.130 Joseph McElroy: cool I knew, you had plenty of experience in the area yeah like me i’m doing this podcast from New York City.

00:09:38.880 –> 00:09:46.920 Joseph McElroy: But you know I grew up there, and you know and i’ve always been there and I have my business interests there, and you know so.

00:09:47.520 –> 00:10:03.540 Joseph McElroy: You know well, of course I business interest in New York, so, but you can you can you can love multiple places in your life, and I think actually having the experience of loving two places really prepares you to talk about it in the travel sets right yeah.

00:10:03.690 –> 00:10:17.100 Frances Figart: yeah like I love I love, where I live, so much, and I have trail cams around my property and at night, especially at night there are bobcats that come through that’s my spirit animal and I love them, but we have bear and deer and Turkey and.

00:10:18.180 –> 00:10:24.210 Frances Figart: opossum and skunk and would check and all these wonderful animals that are on this property, so I love it here.

00:10:24.600 –> 00:10:35.460 Frances Figart: But I also love, Costa Rica and that would be a place that we’re I to have an opportunity to can to live there, I might do so, but I don’t think I can pull my husband away.

00:10:35.760 –> 00:10:46.380 Frances Figart: From the appalachian trail region he’s hiked it four times, he was here and and I love it here as well, so yeah but I know what you mean you can love to places that’s for sure.

00:10:46.560 –> 00:10:56.550 Joseph McElroy: yeah well, I mean you can you can love several places my wife loves New York City and she’s learning to love the the smoky mountains and she she loves a.

00:10:58.950 –> 00:11:00.360 Joseph McElroy: place in Mexico.

00:11:01.680 –> 00:11:04.650 Joseph McElroy: i’m drawing a blank on and she’s gonna get mad at me she’s probably listening.

00:11:05.730 –> 00:11:14.010 Joseph McElroy: San Miguel San Miguel and the mountains in which is sort of a mountainous region in the in the in the.

00:11:14.370 –> 00:11:30.060 Joseph McElroy: Mexico and she’s originally from Trinidad and grew up on a mountain in Trinidad you know everything so true that’d be in this Caribbean island but it’s actually a mountainous Caribbean island and so she’s she’s I tell her we’re just we’re just mountain people.

00:11:32.490 –> 00:11:37.170 Joseph McElroy: So, and so, what do you, what do you love most about the smoky mountains region.

00:11:38.250 –> 00:11:47.250 Frances Figart: Well, I tell you it’s um it’s a very diverse place and that’s part of the reason why I love, Costa Rica, was the diversity and you know the smokies has been studied.

00:11:47.580 –> 00:11:59.820 Frances Figart: by scientists all over the world as a biodiversity hotspot and so that’s why I really got interested in the job because it was a place that I could put my ecotourism background to work if you will.

00:12:00.210 –> 00:12:13.800 Frances Figart: And I manage the creative team they’re a great smoky mountains, association and we create all kinds of books and magazines and projects like we did we actually do a podcast to that’s called smoky mountain air.

00:12:14.820 –> 00:12:28.980 Frances Figart: So there are so many ways to lend you know the creative forces to the smokies because they’re just so many stories to be told we’re helping to tell ancient stories of the peoples who were here before it was even a park.

00:12:29.010 –> 00:12:29.700 Joseph McElroy: You know the Chair.

00:12:29.880 –> 00:12:36.660 Frances Figart: In the African American people that were here before, so we help the park in so many different ways to do that interpretive work.

00:12:37.470 –> 00:12:49.350 Joseph McElroy: Well that’s Nice, you know I I was reading about that you know the cherokee you know claim anywhere from 3000 to 15,000 years ago of culture in this area yeah and so.

00:12:50.040 –> 00:13:01.290 Joseph McElroy: I find that very interesting and, of course, the West African influence on music here is tremendous, especially the banjo I mean our first episode, we talked a lot about that.

00:13:01.890 –> 00:13:18.420 Joseph McElroy: I have a friend of mine who is both Scotch Irish and West African descent all right, and he was the drummer for simple minds at one point he’s artists in residence at the middle Arc motel and he’s exploring all those sorts of aspects of the Culture here.

00:13:18.900 –> 00:13:30.390 Frances Figart: Well, you mentioned that because we just created a new podcast series that’s called sepia tones and it’s about African American music in appalachia.

00:13:30.960 –> 00:13:47.070 Frances Figart: And the influence that that’s had on the smokies region, in particular, and the co host of that Ted olson and bill Turner are just amazing so it’s under the smoky mountain air podcast series and really worth listening to i’m very excited that we’re.

00:13:47.070 –> 00:13:49.080 Frances Figart: Creating we’re creating that right now.

00:13:49.320 –> 00:13:54.720 Joseph McElroy: Well, I should talk to Mike and see if there’s any synergies and what he’s doing yeah so cool.

00:13:56.040 –> 00:14:02.610 Joseph McElroy: So we’re back, we have taken a break now we’ll talk more about articles and publications and books.

00:17:01.980 –> 00:17:09.990 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin mcilroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcast with my guest Francis fiber.

00:17:12.060 –> 00:17:25.500 Joseph McElroy: So, before I get into you know more about the the great smoky areas specifically you know we talked about ECO tourism, you talked about it briefly, can you just tell us what that means you really.

00:17:26.670 –> 00:17:42.150 Frances Figart: yeah a lot of times people describe it as sustainable tourism and really if you think about it, those two things are a bit of a misnomer right because it’s hard to travel sustainably when you’re traveling you’re you’re using fuel and.

00:17:43.380 –> 00:17:51.360 Frances Figart: Lots of our resources but there’s a movement in the travel industry to try to do it that in such a way that it’s light on the land.

00:17:51.810 –> 00:18:03.630 Frances Figart: And a lot of times ECO tourism is focused around very small group travel so, for instance, I worked with a kayak ECO tour operator in both Canada and Costa Rica, we would go back and forth.

00:18:03.930 –> 00:18:11.700 Frances Figart: Depending on the season, because you don’t want to be paddling in Canada when it’s October so that’s when you’d get a Costa Rica and.

00:18:12.690 –> 00:18:20.040 Frances Figart: You know the focus was on small groups that would not make a big impact in the areas that we were paddling.

00:18:20.430 –> 00:18:30.030 Frances Figart: So that’s that’s kind of how I got involved before that I was a magazine editor for the national tour Association, which was more of a motor coach across the US.

00:18:30.540 –> 00:18:44.670 Frances Figart: and Canada type of organization for tour operators and I learned about ECO tourism and natural tourism through that experience and so that is kind of what I gravitated to because I liked the conservation aspect of that work.

00:18:45.270 –> 00:18:47.910 Joseph McElroy: So, and then your podcast you mentioned, with the.

00:18:49.170 –> 00:18:50.130 Joseph McElroy: GS ma.

00:18:51.450 –> 00:18:55.080 Joseph McElroy: talks about ECO ECO tourism experiences of people could have.

00:18:56.070 –> 00:19:07.380 Frances Figart: We haven’t gotten into that topic yet, but that’s a really good idea and I think we should have been focusing recently on, as I mentioned the sepia tones the black appalachian music.

00:19:08.400 –> 00:19:19.320 Frances Figart: Focus but we’ve also had podcasts that have been readings by some of our smokies life magazine authors and you know we’ve explored other programs in the park but.

00:19:19.770 –> 00:19:30.840 Frances Figart: You know, eco tourism has not been mentioned a lot in my job, yet, but it’s something that’s always in the back of my mind, because we do have a lot of congestion and a lot of visitors in the park, you know, we had.

00:19:31.230 –> 00:19:40.920 Frances Figart: 12.5 million visitors in 2019 and then of course last year it fell a little bit because of coven and we were closed part of the year.

00:19:42.120 –> 00:19:55.710 Frances Figart: But this year people feel like parks are the place to be and so each month this year we’ve had some numbers already and we expect to probably tip over that 12.5 million mark during 21.

00:19:56.250 –> 00:19:58.560 Joseph McElroy: Do you if you if somebody wanted to.

00:19:59.790 –> 00:20:00.390 Joseph McElroy: You know.

00:20:01.440 –> 00:20:12.330 Joseph McElroy: engage in ecotourism experience and then the smoky mountains, do you know of any providers or resources or even you know publications that might give them information.

00:20:13.800 –> 00:20:23.250 Frances Figart: Absolutely, there are a lot of great ecotourism operators out there, and one in particular that I think of right off the BAT is Tara in Terra.

00:20:23.790 –> 00:20:36.720 Frances Figart: incognita ECO tours and that’s run by Judd katich and he’s a friend longtime friend and he does skirt trips to all kinds of wonderful places where ECO tourism, tourism has done.

00:20:37.470 –> 00:20:38.400 Joseph McElroy: fabulous i’m.

00:20:40.080 –> 00:20:45.750 Joseph McElroy: glad about that i’m wanting you know where we are at the motel where the only we’re actually the only.

00:20:46.350 –> 00:21:05.550 Joseph McElroy: Three pine lodging facility west of asheville and three partners graded by the Sydney according to you know North Carolina sustainable ECO ECO friendly and so we’ve taken a lot of effort to be and so we’re looking at how to develop more eco tour, so I guess.

00:21:06.240 –> 00:21:07.230 Joseph McElroy: So anyway right I.

00:21:07.830 –> 00:21:09.390 Frances Figart: connect you with some people.

00:21:09.480 –> 00:21:23.550 Joseph McElroy: cool that’d be fabulous so you’ve written scores of articles for well known publications around the region and now you’re the creative service director, the GA s ma so tell us a little bit about this organization and what what that job means.

00:21:24.810 –> 00:21:31.860 Frances Figart: Right well so great smoky mountains association is one of several part partners and we’re an educational park partner.

00:21:32.220 –> 00:21:47.040 Frances Figart: So we support the park through creating products and selling them and Joseph you probably know that you know the park in the smokies doesn’t charge an entrance fee like some parks and so there’s always that challenge of how do they.

00:21:48.090 –> 00:21:54.240 Frances Figart: generate the income to take care of the backlog of maintenance and all the different things that need to be done for the park.

00:21:54.660 –> 00:22:03.870 Frances Figart: So we create books and magazines and other products, and we also sell other books in our bookstores that are run by great smoky mountains association.

00:22:04.320 –> 00:22:12.840 Frances Figart: And those funds come together to help support the park to do many different things like we talked about earlier telling the stories.

00:22:13.260 –> 00:22:18.390 Frances Figart: Of the peoples who were here before or preserving the historic buildings in the park.

00:22:19.080 –> 00:22:28.950 Frances Figart: Just things like utilities for visitors we help to provide that, so there are so many things that go into how we support our our park and as a partner.

00:22:29.520 –> 00:22:37.200 Frances Figart: And we, you know, there are other partners like discover life in America that I mentioned, and they have other projects that they work on but we’re.

00:22:38.070 –> 00:22:47.610 Frances Figart: serving in a way that that we sell our products in the bookstore so anytime you visit the park and you go into one of the bookstores that’s great smoky mountains association.

00:22:48.030 –> 00:22:55.560 Joseph McElroy: You also I know this for a fact, because I am one you’ve developed a pretty large network of resellers right that actually.

00:22:55.860 –> 00:22:57.930 Joseph McElroy: support you and selling those.

00:22:58.590 –> 00:23:08.100 Joseph McElroy: Are smokies adventure COM site actually sells the DSM a products and we you know we try to package, a little different and things like that, but.

00:23:09.210 –> 00:23:11.730 Joseph McElroy: we’re we’re an avid supporter of that.

00:23:12.090 –> 00:23:18.450 Frances Figart: Well that’s great and we welcome you and you know it’s interesting because we are basically a very boutique publisher.

00:23:19.380 –> 00:23:29.100 Frances Figart: of books, you know it’s something that we we don’t do that publishing exclusively we do so many other things in running our bookstores and our retail is really our bread and butter.

00:23:29.910 –> 00:23:37.860 Frances Figart: But we create a couple of books every year and this year, the new book from gma is the one that I wrote called a search for safe passage.

00:23:38.250 –> 00:23:44.670 Joseph McElroy: cool well, I know I will talk about that in just a second I think it’s a great book, but I think another big thing that you guys do.

00:23:45.090 –> 00:23:54.540 Joseph McElroy: Is that you create maps and guides right, not just the books, I mean the books are great I mean you talk about like moonshine you talking about women in the appalachian you talk about.

00:23:54.870 –> 00:24:01.380 Joseph McElroy: You know all sorts of different cultural aspects that people don’t necessarily think of, and then you get into herbal medicine and.

00:24:01.920 –> 00:24:16.530 Joseph McElroy: You know and wildlife and many things you just the selection is is great, but you do wonderful guides and great maps and hiking hiking trail maps and things like that you just released the hundred trails that is a.

00:24:16.680 –> 00:24:17.280 classic.

00:24:18.450 –> 00:24:23.790 Joseph McElroy: classic classic and an updated and everything and that’s that’s a good seller.

00:24:25.500 –> 00:24:34.200 Frances Figart: Sales map which was originally a partnership between gma and the Carolina mountain club and we’ve just revitalized it and brought it up to date.

00:24:34.590 –> 00:24:43.140 Frances Figart: Which is very exciting and there’s a new challenge from cmc Carolina mountain club for people to hike all of those 100 favorite trails so that’s pretty neat.

00:24:43.500 –> 00:24:50.220 Frances Figart: And we do have a lot of guidebooks and you know people who are not watching this can’t see it but behind me there’s a poster.

00:24:50.520 –> 00:24:55.920 Frances Figart: That shows 100 different butterflies and Moss and they’re all in our butterflies and months field guide.

00:24:56.340 –> 00:25:08.820 Frances Figart: Which is just one of many field guides right now we’re creating a new one that’s all about just insects and that’s being written by James Costa of the Highlands biological station which is in color we.

00:25:09.540 –> 00:25:18.360 Joseph McElroy: yeah well that’s great I mean I think these are wonderful assets and you also the editor of smokies life magazine what is that what is the purpose of that magazine.

00:25:18.990 –> 00:25:31.710 Frances Figart: That magazine is the main benefit that are members of gma get in the mail twice a year, and thank goodness it’s twice a year because i’ve worked on a lot of monthly magazines and you really can’t do anything else.

00:25:32.460 –> 00:25:42.660 Frances Figart: One time I was like Conference, and when I was with the national tour association, so people came up to my booth at a conference and they said we’re just curious What do you do in between issues.

00:25:45.090 –> 00:25:49.380 Joseph McElroy: But now you look at it it’s so beautiful right it’s such a beautiful magazine.

00:25:49.860 –> 00:25:52.920 Frances Figart: It really is and that’s thanks to my staff, I have an.

00:25:52.920 –> 00:26:03.090 Frances Figart: amazing on staff that Lisa horseman is the lead designer on that magazine she’s also a famous children’s author and we sell her books, you might have some of her books.

00:26:03.720 –> 00:26:16.290 Frances Figart: The great smoky mountain salamander ball is one that you probably have, and you know that that magazine is just a lot of fun, but yeah it takes the full six months because you are doing a lot of things to make it happen.

00:26:18.300 –> 00:26:32.520 Joseph McElroy: So, and you know the you know the the things that are the contents are like bike days in caves cove park faces up faces up to over tourism twin creek science, education, a lot of wonderful stuff there.

00:26:34.020 –> 00:26:49.080 Frances Figart: Paul has an article in this one I don’t know if you notice that, but he wrote a story about two of the heroes of the smokies Georgian Elizabeth ellison and so Bob and Janet mckee read that together, and it was a great story.

00:26:49.380 –> 00:26:56.940 Joseph McElroy: Oh that’s great oh yeah Well, no, I think it’s and it’s and it’s so that’s mostly I said you don’t distribute it anywhere else right.

00:26:57.540 –> 00:27:09.060 Frances Figart: it’s in our book stores, and you can buy it at smokies information.org so if you’re not a Member, you can go online it’s smokies information to Oregon by it, but we encourage you to be a Member for just 30 bucks a year.

00:27:10.170 –> 00:27:11.160 Joseph McElroy: Okay cool.

00:27:12.420 –> 00:27:12.870 Joseph McElroy: So.

00:27:13.950 –> 00:27:21.480 Joseph McElroy: You when you talk about the DSM maybe an educational park partner Besides supporting it with money, what does that mean.

00:27:22.620 –> 00:27:31.830 Frances Figart: um so you know, like, I mentioned the proceeds from our books and products provide services for visitors and we fund resource management of the park.

00:27:32.700 –> 00:27:42.030 Frances Figart: We make it possible for the park to preserve his historic structures and tell those older stories of the cherokee and the African Americans who were here before.

00:27:42.510 –> 00:27:51.030 Frances Figart: We help educate our members and part visitors about natural and cultural heritage of the smokies through those projects okay.

00:27:51.810 –> 00:27:52.170 well.

00:27:53.610 –> 00:28:04.200 Joseph McElroy: When we get back you have you have a new book called this, you will be have two books that we wanted to talk about briefly seasons of letting go, which I mentioned, and then I think, a very important one now.

00:28:04.800 –> 00:28:10.170 Joseph McElroy: search for safe passage which was a children’s book has got a pretty important message to talk about.

00:28:11.220 –> 00:28:14.820 Joseph McElroy: And so let’s dig into the meat of that when we get back.

00:28:15.540 –> 00:28:16.200 Frances Figart: sounds good.

00:28:24.420 –> 00:28:24.630 and

00:31:05.970 –> 00:31:14.640 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin McElroy and i’m back with the gateway to the smokies podcasts and My guess Francis.

00:31:16.320 –> 00:31:17.550 Joseph McElroy: Francis you know we.

00:31:18.720 –> 00:31:29.730 Joseph McElroy: been talking about you know your job and let’s talk about your creativity all right, which is even your job demonstrates your creativity you’re the author of two books.

00:31:30.240 –> 00:31:39.510 Joseph McElroy: And the first one, I got to read a little bit of and because it was formatted as a series of poignant collection of essays.

00:31:40.380 –> 00:31:48.120 Joseph McElroy: I was able to actually get her, I think a little bit of an understanding and it’s called seasons of letting go, which was about helping your mother die.

00:31:48.600 –> 00:32:03.300 Joseph McElroy: A dignified death and how you learn from that your mother was a ruthie, I think, and she was a baseball fan, and she sounds like a tremendous woman, and so, can you tell us a little bit of that book came about.

00:32:03.720 –> 00:32:07.830 Frances Figart: Sure thing so her name is Ruth and that he is silent.

00:32:08.160 –> 00:32:08.760 Okay.

00:32:09.900 –> 00:32:16.740 Frances Figart: When she was born, she was named just the normal, are you Th but she’d like to be different so she wanted to put a silent E on it.

00:32:17.700 –> 00:32:18.660 Joseph McElroy: Okay, great.

00:32:18.900 –> 00:32:22.680 Frances Figart: My middle name is free to so I have the silent E as well.

00:32:22.920 –> 00:32:23.940 Joseph McElroy: Can I call you ruthie.

00:32:27.960 –> 00:32:28.290 Frances Figart: But.

00:32:28.590 –> 00:32:35.910 Frances Figart: The book, you know I I tell people I kind of tricked myself into writing a book, because what happened was in 2010.

00:32:36.390 –> 00:32:45.690 Frances Figart: I put my career on hold and I went home and I realized, I was going to need to be with my mom for as long as it was going to take, and it was about two years, just like your experience.

00:32:46.380 –> 00:32:55.740 Frances Figart: And so I didn’t know really how to cope with you know how this is your your loving this person, but you also have this big job.

00:32:56.640 –> 00:33:04.410 Frances Figart: You know it’s like you’re you’re doing the caregiving thing and so it’s 24 seven you don’t get a break there’s really no escape from the stress of it.

00:33:04.740 –> 00:33:15.510 Frances Figart: So I think to process that stress I started a blog and I started writing essays just about coping with the fact that i’m going to lose my mother and i’m the sole caregiver, and this was really hard.

00:33:16.890 –> 00:33:29.040 Frances Figart: And it wasn’t until several years after she was gone that I realized that some of my best writing had been done, both during the time she was dying and also my processing the first year of grief.

00:33:29.790 –> 00:33:38.850 Frances Figart: Especially that first year, and so in 2015 I realized that I had a group of essays that I really just wanted to put together as a book.

00:33:39.240 –> 00:33:43.380 Frances Figart: And in really for me my audience was the people who knew my mother.

00:33:43.680 –> 00:33:53.310 Frances Figart: That probably would not go look at my blog site and look up all these essays on there, because they were older people, they were in her age group, so I wanted to present them with something.

00:33:53.610 –> 00:34:00.780 Frances Figart: And i’m holding the book up right now it’s got a scene that’s much like your background Joseph and you know I.

00:34:02.430 –> 00:34:12.960 Frances Figart: yeah I wanted it to be something that people could hold in their hand and have a good feeling about her life so it’s a tribute to her, but it’s also a tribute to what you were talking about earlier, which is that we.

00:34:13.230 –> 00:34:25.530 Frances Figart: have to reinvent ourselves, and we have to disassociate our identity as being with that person it, you know, even though I really felt strongly that my end identity was wrapped up with being Ruth fibroids daughter.

00:34:26.070 –> 00:34:31.140 Frances Figart: I had to go on and say I can be more than that, I can be different from that and still honor her.

00:34:32.160 –> 00:34:36.720 Joseph McElroy: That is a that is a, that is, I think that’s important for a lot of people to.

00:34:37.410 –> 00:34:47.580 Joseph McElroy: To to understand that you know, I think that I, you know I had some friends that actually it was kind of odd, but at the same time they’d lost their lives, maybe one of the year before.

00:34:47.970 –> 00:35:05.970 Joseph McElroy: And then never you know when I saw them they had they hadn’t progressed in their lives, and some of them still haven’t and they haven’t lost that and that they haven’t realized that they got to bury their identity, their grieving their identity as much as they’re grieving the person.

00:35:06.330 –> 00:35:13.890 Frances Figart: yeah and I think, as you continue to read that book you’re going to see that there’s a place where I went through that that same thing, where you know you just.

00:35:14.220 –> 00:35:21.900 Frances Figart: You finally let go and the experience of caregiving, I think, is one that you that’s where I really learned that I wasn’t in control.

00:35:22.500 –> 00:35:31.620 Frances Figart: Because you know I am kind of a control freak and that helps me to be successful and things like building production schedules for magazines or setting a time limit, you know to do a book.

00:35:31.950 –> 00:35:39.390 Frances Figart: And that type of thing, but ultimately we have no control and when you’re a caregiver and someone’s dying that’s when you really learn that lesson.

00:35:39.780 –> 00:35:41.880 Frances Figart: And then, when you start to let go.

00:35:42.060 –> 00:35:48.690 Frances Figart: For me it is if you’re really able to realize your destiny, because you don’t push so hard for what you want.

00:35:49.110 –> 00:35:58.080 Frances Figart: You don’t get that friction anymore you just align with destiny and then the two of you can just sore out into space and that’s really what’s happened for me since I lost my mom.

00:35:58.500 –> 00:35:58.770 Frances Figart: And I.

00:35:58.920 –> 00:36:04.470 Frances Figart: said I could show her that I finally got it but it’s Okay, I think she knows.

00:36:05.250 –> 00:36:14.640 Joseph McElroy: I you know the same way, I feel like I have guardian angels that I didn’t have before things have gone in surprising ways for me in my life, since then, so.

00:36:15.840 –> 00:36:18.780 Joseph McElroy: it’s, it is a carpet experience right.

00:36:19.590 –> 00:36:23.670 Frances Figart: yeah it’s cathartic and you know you probably have had the same feeling too, but.

00:36:24.090 –> 00:36:37.440 Frances Figart: i’ve been a little sad that my husband didn’t get to meet my parents, but then, in some ways it’s almost as if his energy continues their own and it’s almost like it doesn’t matter because it feels like he was a part of them, and they were part of him.

00:36:37.800 –> 00:36:55.500 Joseph McElroy: yeah you know I have, I have a wife and two the two twin children now yeah I have an older son, but but it definitely feels like this, this long journey that just changed, but you know there’s a similar similar there’s a sort of energy that goes through.

00:36:57.120 –> 00:37:01.500 Joseph McElroy: So now you got a second book come it’s got a completely different direction.

00:37:01.950 –> 00:37:03.900 Joseph McElroy: That just came out last month.

00:37:04.950 –> 00:37:16.200 Joseph McElroy: it’s a children’s book and with a special cause pertaining to the smokies is search for say passions and can you tell me two things, what is it about why came about and why did you make it a children’s.

00:37:16.920 –> 00:37:19.530 Frances Figart: Okay that’s you know it’s going to take me a second so.

00:37:21.120 –> 00:37:28.020 Frances Figart: When I first moved from asheville up to the area where I live in now the closest highway here is I 26.

00:37:28.590 –> 00:37:34.890 Frances Figart: And I was disturbed to see a lot of our iconic black bears getting killed on this highway.

00:37:35.580 –> 00:37:44.850 Frances Figart: And so, when I got my job in the smokies I was able to connect with some people who were having a discussion about a similar problem just outside the park boundary.

00:37:45.570 –> 00:37:54.120 Frances Figart: And it’s an area, called the pigeon river gorge it’s a 28 mile stretch of road that’s really twisty if you’ve ever driven between asheville and knoxville.

00:37:54.900 –> 00:38:02.430 Frances Figart: been on this really curvy section of road and eight miles is in Tennessee and 20 miles is in western North Carolina.

00:38:02.820 –> 00:38:09.180 Frances Figart: And way too many bear and deer and elk and other smaller animals are killed there every year.

00:38:09.420 –> 00:38:17.280 Frances Figart: Now there’s a lot of statistics rolling around, but the data hasn’t all been crunched yet some people say as many as 70 bears have been killed there in one year.

00:38:17.580 –> 00:38:24.390 Frances Figart: We don’t really know those things, yet the research is still being completed, but what we know is that there are way too many.

00:38:24.750 –> 00:38:32.880 Frances Figart: And so I became a part of this group, and at that time it wasn’t called anything, it was just several organizations working together.

00:38:33.510 –> 00:38:42.600 Frances Figart: To try to find a solution, and now there are as many as 20 organizations, some of them governmental some of them non governmental some of them tribal.

00:38:43.020 –> 00:38:51.540 Frances Figart: All kinds of agencies working together to try to solve the problem and six of those have created a safe passage fund coalition.

00:38:51.810 –> 00:39:02.700 Frances Figart: And we’ve branded the project as the safe passage I 40 pigeon river gorge wildlife crossing project now we’re working towards getting some wildlife crossings to.

00:39:03.090 –> 00:39:07.890 Frances Figart: Be in that region but that’s something that takes years sometimes to accomplish.

00:39:08.400 –> 00:39:16.050 Frances Figart: And so, why a children’s book to me i’m thinking of 11 and 12 year olds who are reading this book now.

00:39:16.470 –> 00:39:22.770 Frances Figart: are going to inherit the problems that we have with our roads needing to consider wildlife and how they need to cross.

00:39:23.190 –> 00:39:33.060 Frances Figart: And so, in 12 more years those kids reading it will be the new road ecologist they will be the highway engineers that will help to solve these problems.

00:39:33.750 –> 00:39:47.070 Frances Figart: Because we’re networking with people who have been working on these problems for a decade and they still have a broken ground because it takes that long to get it all together so that’s why the kids book concept really works.

00:39:48.330 –> 00:39:56.490 Joseph McElroy: I read it a little bit of it, I love the way you’ve sort of made it into an adventure story for the kids right.

00:39:57.540 –> 00:40:11.880 Joseph McElroy: it’s sort of an adventure the animals are you know they they they they all have their own personalities and they meet together, you know they have you have different groups that come together and have to know who they are, and there’s also a sort of a almost.

00:40:13.020 –> 00:40:17.370 Joseph McElroy: A mythological element to it yeah it’s got a little bit of magic in it.

00:40:17.850 –> 00:40:29.310 Frances Figart: yeah I am I was really inspired by the cherokee writings of the myths where they would talk about animals as just bear or deer or firefly.

00:40:30.060 –> 00:40:36.660 Frances Figart: They would just have the animals name, and so the animals in this book just have that that very simple mythological name.

00:40:37.500 –> 00:40:47.160 Frances Figart: But there’s a band of animals that join together in this cause to try to find safe passage and they meet some new friends, and they have some adventures, and some of its kind of scary.

00:40:48.030 –> 00:40:56.730 Frances Figart: But it’s not in your face graphic you know, there are some animals in it that have been killed on the human highway but we don’t see that happen it’s more of a memory.

00:40:56.970 –> 00:41:03.270 Frances Figart: That an animal has of their parent who has been killed, their or their brother or sister or friend who’s been killed on the human highway.

00:41:03.750 –> 00:41:13.950 Frances Figart: And they have a law called turtles law that prevents them from crossing anymore, and that illustrates a concept and wrote ecology that’s called the barrier effect.

00:41:14.340 –> 00:41:21.510 Frances Figart: And so, when animals decide not to try to cross anymore that’s actually even worse than when you’re seeing individual animals get hit.

00:41:21.840 –> 00:41:36.600 Frances Figart: Because the species is then in under threat and it’s not getting what it needs to thrive and species, you know diversity can’t happen animals interbreed and, eventually, they could be come extinct or be extirpated.

00:41:37.200 –> 00:41:45.300 Joseph McElroy: yeah you know I also think that about half the book is about the story, but then I think the other half is you have.

00:41:46.080 –> 00:41:53.250 Joseph McElroy: yeah a lot of information, like almost like a little bit like encyclopedia but you know approachable encyclopedia information about the types of.

00:41:53.550 –> 00:41:56.940 Joseph McElroy: crossings, I mean there’s incredible amount there’s there’s culverts there’s.

00:41:57.270 –> 00:42:09.030 Joseph McElroy: You know the square openings there’s bridges there’s you know there’s grass things over the top, I thought that was really sort of you know, actually fascinating that you put all that additional information in there.

00:42:09.510 –> 00:42:16.140 Joseph McElroy: yeah it’s a thorough education and fun book for children so i’m gonna get it for my children at the appropriate age.

00:42:16.740 –> 00:42:20.970 Frances Figart: I appreciate that, and you know I worked with a lot of scientists who know.

00:42:21.450 –> 00:42:33.720 Frances Figart: How to build these structures and and it’s just kind of distilling the information that they have down to the most basic level so that someone like a fifth grader can understand it, but that’s also the level that a lot of us need we don’t.

00:42:33.960 –> 00:42:44.100 Frances Figart: We don’t know how to build these box culverts and bridge extensions and things either, so I think it’s very accessible for adults that are just becoming acquainted with the road ecology concepts to.

00:42:44.400 –> 00:42:54.990 Joseph McElroy: yeah I think it’s an easy read for an adult to just sort of get the story, but then there’s the information that actually makes it yeah you get adult information in a in a digestible form.

00:42:55.530 –> 00:43:03.390 Joseph McElroy: For the second half of that book, I was, I was pleasantly you know excited so it’s very beautifully illustrated, who did your illustrations.

00:43:03.780 –> 00:43:17.040 Frances Figart: So the illustrator is named Emma do for and she’s on my staff at great smoky mountains association she’s a publication specialist who came to the smokies a lot as a child and then was determined to move to the smokies and work there.

00:43:17.790 –> 00:43:29.400 Frances Figart: her story is a brilliant one, but this was her first book to design and illustrate and she’s done a remarkable job and Did it really rapidly, we did all of this during coven you know the book.

00:43:30.030 –> 00:43:38.070 Frances Figart: I wrote the book from March to May last year and then mo worked on the illustration, and we basically got it published within about a nine month window.

00:43:38.700 –> 00:43:49.020 Joseph McElroy: Okay fabulous well when we come back we’ll talk a little bit more about you know aspects of your job, and you know, and then you know other things that people can find out about you.

00:43:50.880 –> 00:43:52.650 Frances Figart: Okay, thank you know.

00:46:08.430 –> 00:46:29.190 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin mcilroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcast and my guest Francis fight guy so Francis you mentioned coven giving you the time to actually write this new book, but how is coven impact your world and the park itself.

00:46:30.390 –> 00:46:43.350 Frances Figart: very good question you know the park went through some really scary times when coven first started and we found that not only did the park need to close, but we gma needed to close our visitor centers.

00:46:43.770 –> 00:46:54.120 Frances Figart: To be able to keep our staff, safe and then we actually even had to close our warehouse where the online orders are filled and we do large online business.

00:46:54.690 –> 00:46:58.770 Frances Figart: But it wasn’t safe, and so we we lost some ground, it was a little scary.

00:46:59.430 –> 00:47:08.940 Frances Figart: But we went into the year in a really good place financially, and so one of the things that happened that was very interesting was we had this challenge and figuring out How can people.

00:47:09.420 –> 00:47:18.900 Frances Figart: Stay connected to the park virtually since they can’t come there that’s really what our members and the people that follow Jesus, and they wanted was to be able to feel connected.

00:47:19.320 –> 00:47:25.050 Frances Figart: And so my staff had all these wonderful creative ideas, because they’re such innovators, you know they’re like we can do.

00:47:25.380 –> 00:47:32.130 Frances Figart: All these different things, and so I decided to channel all of their ideas through a blog called smokies live.

00:47:32.520 –> 00:47:43.110 Frances Figart: And smokies live can be found at smokies information.org as soon as you go to our website at pops up and it’s basically a blog that we started during coven.

00:47:43.590 –> 00:47:55.860 Frances Figart: And we’ve been able to maintain it and we post almost daily, if not four or five times a week we have stories coming up on smokies live that make it like a sister publication, to the magazine smokies life.

00:47:56.400 –> 00:48:00.600 Frances Figart: And we have many people that write for it, much of it is contributed.

00:48:01.200 –> 00:48:08.670 Frances Figart: If there are people out there listening he loved to write about the smokies they could even contact me and write for smokies live and it’s a communal effort.

00:48:08.910 –> 00:48:20.130 Frances Figart: So that’s been a really great way that we’ve survived the pandemic, because we really help people to connect with the park seeing videos and learning about the natural, cultural history through smokies live.

00:48:20.790 –> 00:48:35.310 Frances Figart: has really been an amazing part of it, and then also we’ve developed a lot of tools that have helped us with staying in close touch, as you have to do remotely so zoom meetings are one tool we use a program called slack that is.

00:48:35.730 –> 00:48:48.450 Frances Figart: A way to have conversations about all the different projects and in a very much real time, so my team of six we’ve really stayed very, very close and even become more efficient and effective during the pandemic.

00:48:49.080 –> 00:48:51.420 Joseph McElroy: You mentioned the tools of mine in life right now.

00:48:54.210 –> 00:49:02.520 Joseph McElroy: So, you know as an aside, I have you know, I have a bunch of travel writers, because of my business, so I will get some of them to send you some stuff.

00:49:03.000 –> 00:49:11.610 Joseph McElroy: And if you need the promotion of your blog we can I have some pretty good blogs and good good you know you probably know, this word by now seo position.

00:49:12.630 –> 00:49:18.600 Joseph McElroy: And we could give you a little authority to some of the articles, if you want to reach out and particularly promote one or two of them.

00:49:19.050 –> 00:49:21.570 Frances Figart: So this is a fortuitous partnership.

00:49:21.570 –> 00:49:23.220 Joseph McElroy: yeah definitely.

00:49:25.590 –> 00:49:33.600 Joseph McElroy: So, other than the writing part which i’m assuming you love, what are the other favorite aspects of the job helping preserve and protect the smoke.

00:49:34.440 –> 00:49:46.200 Frances Figart: Well, you know I just think about the things I get to do every day are things that I would do whether I had this job or not like I spent today listening to the audio version of a search for safe passage.

00:49:46.500 –> 00:49:59.580 Frances Figart: Which is being read by a wonderful author and audio expert named rose help and she’s out in scottsdale and she recorded my book, and so my job today was really largely.

00:50:00.060 –> 00:50:16.260 Frances Figart: surrounding listening to my book read by her and just making a few little tweaks of where I wanted her to read like the firefly voice a little differently or you know, whatever was you know I wanted elke says, I am L and I wanted that to be really low, and you know.

00:50:17.070 –> 00:50:18.360 Frances Figart: Things like that, where I would like.

00:50:18.450 –> 00:50:27.090 Frances Figart: adjust the way she said something and but it’s a beautiful reading of my book, she is not native American but her voice sounds native.

00:50:27.540 –> 00:50:36.480 Frances Figart: And I love that aspect of it so i’m so excited so I get to do things in my job that just feel like creative projects, they don’t feel like work to me.

00:50:36.930 –> 00:50:47.520 Frances Figart: And I love writing and editing and i’ve often felt like I would, if I if someone said, you could only write or you could only edit I would pick editing because i’m love it and i’m really good at it.

00:50:47.970 –> 00:50:59.070 Frances Figart: But i’ve become more of a writer throughout the last few years and I don’t think I could stand to have that go away, so I think I have to keep both writing and editing as part of what I do.

00:50:59.400 –> 00:51:10.620 Joseph McElroy: that’s fabulous you know they I was persuaded to get into podcasting my some of my marketing people said I had the perfect voice for day with the smokies now i’ve got another podcast and I love the creative aspect.

00:51:11.280 –> 00:51:11.520 Frances Figart: Well, I.

00:51:11.820 –> 00:51:14.820 Frances Figart: wish everyone could see your shirt because it’s so bright.

00:51:14.820 –> 00:51:19.020 Frances Figart: And cool, so this is great that you have some people that are able to view this.

00:51:19.650 –> 00:51:21.330 Joseph McElroy: So you got any books in the plans.

00:51:22.170 –> 00:51:27.900 Frances Figart: Well, actually it’s funny that you should ask that, because one of the things I really want to get working on here soon.

00:51:28.230 –> 00:51:41.040 Frances Figart: After I added about seven more smokies life stories for fall, is that I have a sequel plan to a search for safe passage and the working title is zoe’s gift to the gorge.

00:51:41.610 –> 00:51:53.100 Frances Figart: And it’s going to be in the end of a search for safe passage the elk tells the animals, what we have to do now is communicate to the humans what it is that we need in terms of wildlife crossings.

00:51:53.460 –> 00:52:00.270 Frances Figart: And so the next book is going to have the central figure Zoe, who is a girl that has some very special gifts.

00:52:00.600 –> 00:52:10.650 Frances Figart: And she’s going to get to spend some time up in the gorge with the animals on her own and learn from them what they need, and then she’ll be able to communicate that out to the others.

00:52:10.950 –> 00:52:22.710 Joseph McElroy: Oh fabulous so you can find your new book safe search for safe passage of smokies information.org I, we will probably also soon have it on smokies adventure COM.

00:52:24.570 –> 00:52:38.550 Joseph McElroy: You can also become a member of the great smoky mountains association at smokies information.org and it’s a great way to support and protect the park park her first book Francis first book is seasons of letting goes available on Amazon.

00:52:40.110 –> 00:52:50.850 Joseph McElroy: And spunky safe passions.org is where you can go to learn all about safe passage the I 40 pigeon river gorge wildlife crossing project.

00:52:51.480 –> 00:52:59.370 Joseph McElroy: yeah and then you can go to Francis fig art.com to find out more about Francis and you have some social media to write.

00:52:59.910 –> 00:53:06.120 Frances Figart: i’m on Facebook, mostly i’m on linkedin a little bit, but find me on Facebook i’d love to have some new friends.

00:53:06.630 –> 00:53:14.250 Joseph McElroy: And we’ll put all this information up on the gateway to the smoky so fun so you’ll be able to find it there.

00:53:15.510 –> 00:53:25.440 Joseph McElroy: And that is the gateway to swell and Francis I want to thank you for being a part of the show i’m gonna do a little close out now my stuff but I appreciate very much talking to you.

00:53:27.210 –> 00:53:40.290 Joseph McElroy: Thank you, so you can you can go to gateways to the smokies fun to find all sorts of information about this podcast when we post things that our guests, have mentioned and and want to promote.

00:53:41.520 –> 00:53:48.420 Joseph McElroy: And, and you can also subscribe to a newsletter that will let you know about upcoming events and podcasts.

00:53:48.900 –> 00:53:56.610 Joseph McElroy: Now I want you to imagine a place evocative motor cortex of the past yeah modern and vibrant with a chic appalachian field.

00:53:57.090 –> 00:54:06.810 Joseph McElroy: a place for adventure and full relaxation imagine a place where you can fish and a mountain heritage trout scream grill the catch on fire.

00:54:07.230 –> 00:54:20.580 Joseph McElroy: and eat accompanied by fine wine or craft beers imagine a place of the old time music and world cultural sounds, there is no other place like the middle Arc motel and Maggie valley North Carolina.

00:54:21.600 –> 00:54:28.170 Joseph McElroy: and part of the great smoky mountains National Park your smoky mountain adventure starts with where you stay.

00:54:29.610 –> 00:54:47.610 Joseph McElroy: I want to mention, we are part of the talk radio nyc network, it is a great network of podcasts focused on the New York area, but it also syndicated out to a lot of other places around.

00:54:48.870 –> 00:54:55.620 Joseph McElroy: I think, right after this podcast live on Tuesday nights is a podcast exploring New York.

00:54:56.760 –> 00:55:03.330 Joseph McElroy: And I think it’s a really nice episode, so you go from a rural environment to urban environment.

00:55:04.470 –> 00:55:09.360 Joseph McElroy: So please stick around listen to everything on this network.

00:55:10.770 –> 00:55:26.250 Joseph McElroy: Next week we’re going to have MC butch McCain, who is a retired ranger from the park service, and he has a lot of experience in the smoky mountains, I think it’ll be a great show, and you can come by and visit same time from.

00:55:26.910 –> 00:55:32.970 Joseph McElroy: from six to seven on Tuesday night next week and we also have a Facebook page.

00:55:33.480 –> 00:55:50.340 Joseph McElroy: Also facebook.com slash gateway to the smokies podcast where we stream the video live, so you can see the video live on Tuesdays as well, so you’ll see my shirt and my background and my beautiful guests, so thank you again and i’ll see you next time.

Joseph Franklyn McElroy talks about events and festivals that celebrate the food that can be foraged, the wildflowers that bloom, and fireflies that light the night as well as other natural wonders of the Smoky Mountains.

Tune in for this fun conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.

Joseph starts off today’s episode by introducing today’s topic, and starting to dive further into the Smokies’ biodiversity. Over 19,000 individual species have been found in the park, with scientists estimating that there may be thousands, potentially even hundreds of thousands more. The large biodiversity in the park is largely due to the huge range of elevation in the park, with climates similar to that of both the North and South of the east coast of the United States. This diversity is not unique to animals, there are also a wide variety of plants. The high rainfall in the park provides excellent growing conditions for the plants in the mountains. Joseph goes on to discuss the weather in the mountains and how quickly it can change. Research is being done on how the biodiversity in the mountains can be maintained. Joseph discusses the Spring Festival, which celebrates Spring in the mountains and the greening of the environment. The festival takes place in Silva. Joseph shares some of his favorite places and things to do in SIlva. Another town Joseph enjoys and expounds upon is Andrews, NC.

Coming back from the break, Joseph moves on to wildflowers. There are over 16,000 species of wildflowers in the park, and between March and May, they start to bloom. Joseph dives deeper into the specific varieties of flowers seen in the mountains. Joseph recommends bringing a wildflower field guide when walking in the mountains. He then suggests wildflower walks for listeners to check out. A premier wildflower event is the spring wildflower pilgrimage, which aims to bring people together through the appreciation of nature. The annual event provides attendees with programs educating them on all types of animals, plants, park history, and much more.

With Spring in the mountains comes fireflies, more specifically, synchronous fireflies. Thousands of fireflies gather in swarms and light up in harmony. The Smokies house the largest population of synchronous fireflies in the western hemisphere. Joseph describes the process of capturing fireflies he used as a child. As he often enjoys doing on the podcast, Joseph shares a poem about fireflies. He then shares ways for tourists to see the fireflies. Moving on, Joseph begins to discuss the topic of foraging. He shares a variety of plants one can forage for, and warns listeners to be careful of what they find.

Joseph continues to dive into foraging, discussing a wild onion that grows in the mountains. Another festival in the mountains Joseph enjoys is the herb festival in Asheville. As with the other festivals, the herb festival has many opportunities for education. Joseph also enjoys the Montford Garden Tour, which is running this year for the first time in 17 years. He goes on to discuss motorcycle rallies and car festivals in the mountains. There is also a drive-in concert upcoming. Finishing up the show, Joseph discusses the meadowlark motel and his website.

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00:00:26.670 –> 00:00:27.450 Joseph McElroy: howdy.

00:00:28.050 –> 00:00:32.670 Joseph McElroy: Thanks for joining us on this week’s episode of gateways to the smoke.

00:00:33.930 –> 00:00:42.000 Joseph McElroy: This podcast is about america’s most visited National Park, the great smoky mountains national park and the surrounding towns.

00:00:42.330 –> 00:00:52.290 Joseph McElroy: there’s areas filled with ancient natural beauty deep storied history and a rich mountain culture that we will explore with weekly episodes.

00:00:53.160 –> 00:01:06.480 Joseph McElroy: I am Joseph Franklin mcilroy amanda the world, but also with deep roots in these mountains my family is living the great smokies for over 200 years my businesses in travel, but my heart is in culture.

00:01:07.830 –> 00:01:23.310 Joseph McElroy: Now this episode is a dedicated little bit to environmental tourism that you can experience in the most smoky mountains so we’ll explore some festivals foraging for food wildflowers and and fireflies there’s a lot going on.

00:01:24.330 –> 00:01:30.330 Joseph McElroy: The great smoky mountains, is the most biodiverse park in the National Park system.

00:01:31.290 –> 00:01:44.250 Joseph McElroy: Biological diversity or biodiversity means the number and variety of different types of animals, plants fungi and other organs organisms organisms and location or habitat.

00:01:44.730 –> 00:01:58.320 Joseph McElroy: And with the smoke the with the southern appalachian mountains and comes in over 100 square miles, no other area of equal size and temporary client that can match the parks amazing diversity.

00:01:59.700 –> 00:02:18.960 Joseph McElroy: Over 19,000 species have been documented in the park and scientists believe there’s an additional 80,000 100,000 species that may live here, this means that there is an incredible diversity, food and medicinal herbs that can be forged from this smoky mountain area.

00:02:20.670 –> 00:02:24.000 Joseph McElroy: The reason is that mountain mountains climates and whether.

00:02:25.560 –> 00:02:33.750 Joseph McElroy: That park is dominated by plant covered gently contoured mountains that are formed that were performed perhaps 300 million years ago.

00:02:34.230 –> 00:02:45.150 Joseph McElroy: In fact, they might the smokies are among the oldest mountain ranges in the world and the elevations in the park range from 850 feet to 6643 feet.

00:02:45.960 –> 00:02:55.770 Joseph McElroy: This rage at altitude mimics the client habitat changes, you would experience driving north or south across the eastern United States say from Georgia to maine.

00:02:56.580 –> 00:03:08.700 Joseph McElroy: So plants and animals common in the southern United States thrive in the low end of the smokies while species common in the northern States find suitable habitat in the higher elevations.

00:03:09.390 –> 00:03:22.050 Joseph McElroy: Some hundred species of native trees find homes in the smokies more than any other net North American National Park, I think there’s more species of trees in this park than there is in all of your.

00:03:23.580 –> 00:03:33.030 Joseph McElroy: Almost 95% of the park park is forward and supported in about 25% of that areas old growth forest there’s over 1500.

00:03:33.870 –> 00:03:44.460 Joseph McElroy: flat flowering plant species that have been identified in the park and and in terms of animals, the park is also as a Center of diversity for salamanders.

00:03:44.790 –> 00:04:02.550 Joseph McElroy: is home to more than 200 species of birds 68 species of mammals 67 native fish species 39 species of reptiles and 43 species of amphibians mahler’s millipedes and mushrooms each record diversity here.

00:04:03.720 –> 00:04:19.380 Joseph McElroy: The north, south or South orientation of the appalachian chain allows the smokies to become a refuge for many species and plant plants and animals that were displaced from the northern homes by glaciers, and the last eight Ice Age around 10,000 years ago.

00:04:20.820 –> 00:04:28.740 Joseph McElroy: In terms of whether the parks abundant rainfall and high summertime humidity provides excellent growing conditions.

00:04:30.300 –> 00:04:38.430 Joseph McElroy: And the smokies the average annual rainfall varies from approximately 55 inches in the valley to over 85 inches on some of the peaks.

00:04:38.880 –> 00:04:51.360 Joseph McElroy: And the relative humidity in the peak during the gross seasons about the twice that of the rocky mountain region that’s why it’s called the smokies we get a fairly human environment and a lot of that turns into fog and mist.

00:04:52.860 –> 00:05:04.470 Joseph McElroy: it’s not unusual for us to get rainfall about every day but it’s not one of those long term drizzling every day all day long time rainfall we get.

00:05:04.890 –> 00:05:16.530 Joseph McElroy: These sort of clouds come over the mountain jump a bunch of water, and then it clears right back up so you know you’ll have a day sunshine, then you have an hour to have a rain and then boy sunshine all over again.

00:05:17.820 –> 00:05:33.960 Joseph McElroy: Extensive work and research has been done to preserve the bio diversity of the smokies and there’s environmental factors such as air quality water quality and non native species that are being monitored and fires are being used as tools to maintain a healthy healthy ecosystem.

00:05:36.990 –> 00:05:52.170 Joseph McElroy: The they used to have a real problem with air quality and the fall mixing the mist actually you know start creating some small like conditions but it’s actually been dramatically improved I was reading that the world.

00:05:53.100 –> 00:06:09.660 Joseph McElroy: The world organization, for you know the the the environmental work being done around the world has given the what’s the what’s been done in the smoky mountains great great marks and and thinks that the things are being done really properly.

00:06:11.250 –> 00:06:17.940 Joseph McElroy: So how do we celebrate this sort of thing and and you know and develop upon that, and you know and we talked about ECO tourism.

00:06:18.840 –> 00:06:26.970 Joseph McElroy: One of the things that’s a pretty pretty special I think is every year there’s a spring festival called the greening up the mountains and Silva North Carolina.

00:06:27.720 –> 00:06:33.840 Joseph McElroy: it’s a free festival that celebrates spring in the mountains, where there’s the greening of the liens that.

00:06:34.320 –> 00:06:50.250 Joseph McElroy: The greening of the leaves that work their way up the great smokies but it’s also celebrates the greening of the environment, with him, and it has lots of info about sustainable living and presentations by environmental growth, growth groups silver is just a beautiful destination.

00:06:51.690 –> 00:07:01.710 Joseph McElroy: downtown is just your really quaint lovely downtown and has lots of I think we counted, there was three bookstores on Main Street in a town that’s.

00:07:02.220 –> 00:07:18.930 Joseph McElroy: Maybe not for two people and so it’s a good place for getaway that it was incorporated in 1889 and it’s begun to attract many new residents, because of there’s a lot of rich local soil, which is perfect for farming agriculture so there’s a lot of local farming there.

00:07:20.670 –> 00:07:22.740 Joseph McElroy: And it’s a it’s a.

00:07:25.260 –> 00:07:33.450 Joseph McElroy: Beginning it started growing fairly rapidly rapidly and it had quickly got a post office, the school or train depot and a town Center.

00:07:33.810 –> 00:07:45.990 Joseph McElroy: And it became the county seat of Jackson county into 1913 and it’s got this most beautiful courthouse that was constructed around that time upon a time, upon a hill and it became a Center of commerce.

00:07:46.680 –> 00:07:54.810 Joseph McElroy: Now it’s just over 2000 residents and there’s became a haven for tourists because it’s got a lot of southern charm it’s got a lot of great activities.

00:07:55.260 –> 00:08:05.640 Joseph McElroy: And it’s a stunning natural surroundings when they had the eclipse that you can see in the southern parts of the of the United States and in the mountains, we were able to get a.

00:08:06.060 –> 00:08:14.970 Joseph McElroy: silver was right in the epicenter you get 100% view of the eclipse and they did this wonderful program we went there you were able to set out arm chairs on the streets.

00:08:15.300 –> 00:08:30.660 Joseph McElroy: They had a presentation by local professors at Western Carolina that actually knew about this stuff about what it meant, then they had music it’s just they do things right so and it has a lot of natural course natural outdoor things to do there lots of water sports.

00:08:32.160 –> 00:08:47.520 Joseph McElroy: And there’s a lot of guys in town natalie hail natural forces, full of things to do there it’s right near there and has a lot of unique shops and there’s a lot of bargain shops, as well as the the the bookstores and touristy sort of shops.

00:08:48.930 –> 00:08:58.500 Joseph McElroy: it’s got lots of music and entertainment it’s got several I think I consider them world class little restaurants there I do farm to table food.

00:08:59.280 –> 00:09:10.680 Joseph McElroy: is really delicious when we’re down in that area was silva’s always stopped my wife just goes goes crazy about a place called it’s called Guadalupe which does really interesting Mexican.

00:09:11.700 –> 00:09:18.210 Joseph McElroy: Inspired food, it also has some local wineries and breweries, and it has lots of tasting detours.

00:09:18.660 –> 00:09:24.600 Joseph McElroy: And it has a lot of local events and festivals, and that, like the highly anticipated greening up in the mountains.

00:09:24.960 –> 00:09:35.640 Joseph McElroy: Which is usually held at the end of April, but this year is going to be in August, so, while I was trying to focus on the Spring things I just found out the coven has made it being August event.

00:09:37.500 –> 00:09:46.320 Joseph McElroy: it’s been throwing thousands of people to the to silver for over 20 years it’s free and it’s ideal for families and groups of fan and it’s a.

00:09:46.590 –> 00:09:55.140 Joseph McElroy: it’s really a celebration, the right revitalization growth of spring and of the smoky mountains in general, the environmental ISM that’s been going on for a long time.

00:09:55.680 –> 00:10:00.900 Joseph McElroy: And you’ll meet new people there’s lots of people that you can become friends with and there’s all sorts of games and.

00:10:01.230 –> 00:10:09.210 Joseph McElroy: vendors and artists and live entertainment’s and there’s plenty of food, you can definitely get some great competent conversations local they’re very friendly.

00:10:09.990 –> 00:10:19.770 Joseph McElroy: there’s an opportunity to learn about the region’s about what’s being done about outdoor activities it’s it’s a really it’s I would say it’s a great place to start learning about the mountains.

00:10:20.490 –> 00:10:29.040 Joseph McElroy: From you know from my mental perspective, so you can go to greening up the mountains calm to find more information about that event.

00:10:31.140 –> 00:10:36.240 Joseph McElroy: Also in another little town in the mountains, is a little town called Andrews North Carolina.

00:10:36.900 –> 00:10:45.540 Joseph McElroy: And it has a wealth of his history, along with the interesting turn of the century architecture for such a little out of the way town it’s a little out of the way mountain town.

00:10:46.320 –> 00:10:54.420 Joseph McElroy: It wasn’t a corporate till 1905 and it didn’t get it start it didn’t really get to start until 1891 railroad was completed.

00:10:57.780 –> 00:11:17.610 Joseph McElroy: It it’s it’s a has a nice laid backfield now right it’s got a real small town, a good smoky mountain town atmosphere and, but it has an outstanding backdrop there’s a valley river that borders on the North side of town and beyond that valley flows flows.

00:11:19.170 –> 00:11:37.260 Joseph McElroy: flows towards the slopes of this snowbird mountains it’s Andrews, like in this valley that’s really vastly flat surrounded by all the smoky mountains and has a rolling hills and spacious hideaways and things like that it has a store downtown.

00:11:38.550 –> 00:11:50.970 Joseph McElroy: With brick buildings and store bronk front that during the turnaround to the early 20th century it’s got a lot of historic homes in the downtown district and minus two times you know when it was a.

00:11:51.720 –> 00:12:02.790 Joseph McElroy: Really, prosperous and that sort of early American way of being prosperous, so it on April 24 has a street fair and nature Expo and it celebrates.

00:12:04.020 –> 00:12:12.030 Joseph McElroy: Earth Day and it sweeps out the winter cobwebs and it opens up the downtown to vendors and nature lovers.

00:12:12.450 –> 00:12:18.720 Joseph McElroy: And you learn about gardening and the butterflies and water conservation local history, much more.

00:12:18.990 –> 00:12:30.570 Joseph McElroy: And while you shop there’s a lot of great stuff at the numerous local vendors, so you can go to visit Andrews North Carolina nc visit Andrews nc COM slash spring dash fling.

00:12:30.960 –> 00:12:42.210 Joseph McElroy: To find out more about that, and they have that every year and they’ve been having it for a while and it’s a worthwhile to get sort of that a real in the middle of the smoky mountain areas it’s it’s I think it’s in between Murphy and.

00:12:43.140 –> 00:12:51.990 Joseph McElroy: And I mean in between bryson city and cherokee around that area and it’s it gives you a real taste of old time.

00:12:53.640 –> 00:13:00.390 Joseph McElroy: smoky mountain America so when we come back we’ll be talking about wild flowers.

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00:15:59.400 –> 00:16:13.140 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin mcilroy back, but the gateway to the smokies podcast and i’m now talking about wild flowers so every spring, there is an explosion of these.

00:16:13.860 –> 00:16:17.610 Joseph McElroy: I mean they’re just spectacular wild flowers in the great smoky mountains.

00:16:18.480 –> 00:16:33.090 Joseph McElroy: With over 1600 species of flowering plants, there are certainly no shortage of opportunity to discover why the great smoky mountains National Park is called the wildflower national park and there’s I like to say wildflower.

00:16:34.620 –> 00:16:39.540 Joseph McElroy: it’s wild thing and a wildflower I want to sing that song right.

00:16:40.890 –> 00:16:48.600 Joseph McElroy: But from late March until early May there’s just a flush of the spring wallflowers that live in the ground cover and.

00:16:49.380 –> 00:17:04.350 Joseph McElroy: Because the hardwood you know trees are still without leaves they’re taking advantage of all that sunlight, so you know you have sort of a bloodied trees, but not particularly dense and all these wildflowers just everywhere blooming.

00:17:05.850 –> 00:17:16.200 Joseph McElroy: And they basically track upslope upslope as the season proceeds because it gets warmer so you get there’s a lot you get a lot of window.

00:17:17.070 –> 00:17:25.740 Joseph McElroy: The sea wildfires it just goes higher up the mountain as it gets warmer up the mountain, so it goes march through may, and then they basically ended June.

00:17:26.580 –> 00:17:39.420 Joseph McElroy: A little bit and these flowers include like little white or pink blossoms of spring beauties the the you know the bigger and show your blooms and things like bear if trilliums.

00:17:40.440 –> 00:17:52.200 Joseph McElroy: there’s level white pedals and golden stamens of blubbery there’s there feathery white plains dripping tipping the drooping frons or false Solomon CEO.

00:17:52.650 –> 00:18:01.050 Joseph McElroy: And there’s the dainty or white flour Spikes have a phone flower and the little white bells hugging the stems of Bishops caps and there’s just a lot of different things.

00:18:03.120 –> 00:18:13.500 Joseph McElroy: I striking early wildfire they can clone cluster in great numbers is the trial lily which brand is is an ornate yellow flower and multiple green leaves suggestive a trout pattern.

00:18:14.370 –> 00:18:26.850 Joseph McElroy: Which is another you know signature of the mountains is trial and then another show is spring wildfire common in the lower middle elevations is the Columbine which is hanging red and yellow blooms.

00:18:28.320 –> 00:18:47.250 Joseph McElroy: To similar looking and colorful name flowers that are overlapping their spring emergence are Dutchman breaches and squirrel cones which both have white logo blooms and intricate foliage and another eyecatching snow you’d flowers the fringe felicia felicia felicia.

00:18:48.360 –> 00:18:56.970 Joseph McElroy: And sort of look that up how to pronounce I just now realized that but it’s called is pha le CIA which tends to grow up higher in the mountain forest.

00:18:58.860 –> 00:19:04.440 Joseph McElroy: And then, why there’s a lot there’s a really widespread and very arresting flowers is the jack in the.

00:19:04.980 –> 00:19:12.060 Joseph McElroy: pulpit which has you know those large striped phone over sheath and it’s called the space that forms the pulpit.

00:19:12.600 –> 00:19:21.570 Joseph McElroy: And then there’s lots of violence and wild strawberries and bleeding hearts there’s a there’s a lot of spring blooms interrupt or up from the dust in the.

00:19:21.960 –> 00:19:32.340 Joseph McElroy: Great smokies and it’s it’s almost mind boggling the variety and profusion and it definitely pays to bring a wildfire field guide along to on your moseys.

00:19:33.480 –> 00:19:40.560 Joseph McElroy: And I think we will have on our website link to some books that you can go and find out.

00:19:42.180 –> 00:19:49.290 Joseph McElroy: And then you can also check out the National Park service site for specifics on looming patterns for different flowers species.

00:19:51.510 –> 00:19:59.400 Joseph McElroy: And so many of these lower and middle vision trails on the smoky mountains will have these great outstanding wildflower show so.

00:19:59.700 –> 00:20:03.060 Joseph McElroy: there’s a lot of great walks you can take in the spring to see these.

00:20:03.420 –> 00:20:16.710 Joseph McElroy: And then later in the spring and early in the summer, you can get on the higher outs and see it, yet again, but it, you know was slightly different so that it can go for a long time so i’ve got some suggested wildflower walks for you.

00:20:18.090 –> 00:20:27.180 Joseph McElroy: there’s the kind of luckily river trail that which is an easy Three Mile round trip riverside rock that begins at the article oh kind of lefty.

00:20:27.570 –> 00:20:34.830 Joseph McElroy: visitor Center which is located two miles north of cherokee North Carolina and us for for one another great.

00:20:35.550 –> 00:20:43.500 Joseph McElroy: trail is the deep creek trail and that’s an easy walk that begins at the end of deep creek road, which is about a half mile beyond the deep cream.

00:20:44.100 –> 00:20:52.350 Joseph McElroy: Deep creek campground turn off and it’s this deep creek area is located in north of bryson city, so you go through the town of bryson.

00:20:52.800 –> 00:21:01.170 Joseph McElroy: You can see to waterfalls Indian creek town branch and by walking on this two mile round trip I think i’ve mentioned that that.

00:21:01.620 –> 00:21:09.840 Joseph McElroy: That trail before but it’s worth it for the for the wild flowers the Gregory rich trail is is the first the first two miles of this.

00:21:10.320 –> 00:21:21.360 Joseph McElroy: trail offer some really great wildfire viewing you take the caves cade’s cove loop road just past the cable mill area, and then you turn on to forge creek road and follow it to the end.

00:21:22.800 –> 00:21:39.120 Joseph McElroy: There is the canal it for trail and it’s the climbs free it climbs for three miles to intersect with the Thomas divide trail on Thomas rich you don’t need to go the whole way to see some really great wildfires the first mile or two of the best display, especially in the spring.

00:21:40.380 –> 00:21:41.490 Joseph McElroy: And then you have the.

00:21:43.080 –> 00:21:56.250 Joseph McElroy: It begins about an eighth of a mile north of the kept part from prong footbridge on the new foundling gap row which is known as us for for one and it’s eight miles north to kind of lift the visitor Center.

00:21:57.150 –> 00:22:07.410 Joseph McElroy: there’s the school has schoolhouse gap trail it’s an easy trail that climbs about 2.2 miles from Laurel creek road to schoolhouse gas gap this.

00:22:07.740 –> 00:22:20.430 Joseph McElroy: route includes a wide array of spring and summer flowers, including some very unusual species it’s about the trail is about 3.99 miles west of the Townsend why on the road to get caves code.

00:22:21.480 –> 00:22:30.600 Joseph McElroy: there’s little river trail it’s a relatively wide and level footprint put path which follows the scenic little river towards headwaters.

00:22:31.170 –> 00:22:47.820 Joseph McElroy: it’s located on the side road which begins, just before you enter elk mock camp road and then there’s the first two miles of the bad trail, is it is, it provides a good wildfire good wildflower viewing and from mid March, April.

00:22:49.380 –> 00:23:07.470 Joseph McElroy: If you add in the camera camera gap and Jay tree trails jake creek trails you can make a pleasant five mile loop hike then there’s the middle prom trail and so Walker all rodeo you’re the writer hiker with flowers, as well as waterfalls.

00:23:09.090 –> 00:23:15.420 Joseph McElroy: And again it’s it’s not it starts at the end of treatment row row which begins just west of the towns and wide.

00:23:18.060 –> 00:23:35.970 Joseph McElroy: There is a few other trails i’ll put i’ll be putting this information up on our website, but I wanted to mention some of the events and festivals to celebrate the wildflowers that smokies you know the premier event is the spring wild flower flower pilgrimage.

00:23:37.710 –> 00:23:38.460 Joseph McElroy: That is.

00:23:39.630 –> 00:23:46.440 Joseph McElroy: yeah it’s it’s been around for quite a long time and has, I think it started in 1950.

00:23:48.000 –> 00:24:05.610 Joseph McElroy: and its underlying mission and philosophy is simply to bring people together to fellowship form connections bonds and friendships their common interests on focus on spreading curiosity knowledge appreciation education of natural history biology ecology conservation land management.

00:24:07.110 –> 00:24:15.660 Joseph McElroy: And they’ve always you know, been very open and educational for anybody that wants to come and to learn from experts in the field.

00:24:16.320 –> 00:24:27.240 Joseph McElroy: it’s an annual event and then features professionally guided walks exhibits and many other learning opportunity to explore the regions rich natural and cultural research resources.

00:24:28.680 –> 00:24:37.170 Joseph McElroy: it’s had an I think in the Latin and very recently over the last few years has had over 900 pilgrims from 32 streets 32 states.

00:24:37.470 –> 00:24:50.010 Joseph McElroy: And several countries that join them and includes programs on Sunday ferns wild flowers trees and shrubs shrubs medicinal plants insects salamanders and snakes birds mammals mammals.

00:24:50.340 –> 00:24:58.440 Joseph McElroy: and generally are in photography and park history, I think that is going to be virtual this year, but there are some associated programs that you could take.

00:24:59.100 –> 00:25:12.090 Joseph McElroy: But it’s it’s going to be I don’t I anticipated going every year from now until i’m no longer here, because it’s going on for a long time, and you can go to wildflower pilgrimage.org to find out more.

00:25:14.700 –> 00:25:29.550 Joseph McElroy: Another big place to go see flowers in the mountains, is the biltmore state and national North Carolina it has more than 110,000 flowers blooming the gardens fit for vanderbilt.

00:25:31.170 –> 00:25:38.910 Joseph McElroy: it’s an annual festival flowers with and the color and fragrance and orchids and thousands of spring bulbs steal the show.

00:25:39.900 –> 00:25:45.810 Joseph McElroy: You know the biltmore estate was built by George vanderbilt when he decided he needed a 250 room house.

00:25:46.170 –> 00:25:57.180 Joseph McElroy: In the mountains of Western North Carolina and he hired a renowned landscape architect or Frederick law olmsted who designed central park in New York City to help the state, make a statement.

00:25:57.510 –> 00:26:09.480 Joseph McElroy: So bill more bloom celebrates this natural progression of balloons balloons dictated by Mother Nature and arranged by olmsted in the States current team of expert gardeners.

00:26:11.010 –> 00:26:23.370 Joseph McElroy: So right now that says is getting spring is underway there’s a bright see of yellow daffodils that brighten a walled garden and then there’s pansies of every color you can imagine, it creates a.

00:26:23.790 –> 00:26:33.000 Joseph McElroy: gorgeous feast for the eyes and then you can experience nearly 1000 orchids in full bloom showing off their tropical colors and exotic looks.

00:26:33.360 –> 00:26:45.570 Joseph McElroy: And then there’s a conservatory with lots of lots of different varieties of species, and then you can also view visit the biltmore house, which is a spectacular mansion I think it’s the largest private residence in the United States.

00:26:46.920 –> 00:26:55.620 Joseph McElroy: As the season goes along there’s going to be 80,000 to lips, and then it it’ll transform that wall garden into a floral paradise.

00:26:56.760 –> 00:27:04.830 Joseph McElroy: And they bloom and purple and pink and white and last three to four weeks before making way for later season looms in the shrub and is alien gardens.

00:27:06.000 –> 00:27:15.900 Joseph McElroy: So it’s running right now from the April to the end of May, you can go more to find more about it at built more calm things to do events.

00:27:16.890 –> 00:27:30.270 Joseph McElroy: bill more comm slash things to do things dash to dash do slash events slash spring, though, I suppose, if you just going a bit longer commune just look up events and figure out.

00:27:31.320 –> 00:27:33.030 Joseph McElroy: what’s going on.

00:27:34.200 –> 00:27:51.330 Joseph McElroy: And you know the biltmore house is just a spectacular event, a place to go all around and and they have a winery there it’s I think it’s one of the most I think it’s actually the most visited winery in the world if i’m correct and some of the wines are actually pretty decent.

00:27:52.920 –> 00:28:00.750 Joseph McElroy: And it has you know yeah there’s shops that are associated with it it’s really a one or two day have.

00:28:01.620 –> 00:28:13.260 Joseph McElroy: Experienced to explore and your stuff lots of arts and beautiful artwork some sculptures so I recommend visiting that it’s only about a half away half hour away from Maggie Valley, so if you want to.

00:28:14.160 –> 00:28:30.270 Joseph McElroy: Have a Center place to stay go to the middle or motel calm there and then you can go quickly to things like that the the spring fling then go to the flower, and then you can go to the smokies and see the wild flowers, so when we come back i’m gonna talk about fireflies.

00:28:31.980 –> 00:28:34.950 Joseph McElroy: Listening to talk radio nyc.

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00:31:19.020 –> 00:31:27.780 Joseph McElroy: Oh God, this is Joseph Franklin mcilroy back with the gateway to the smokies pox cash so we’re talking firefly flies.

00:31:29.130 –> 00:31:36.570 Joseph McElroy: yeah so spring also brings that an incredible an incredible natural phenomenon, known as synchronous fireflies.

00:31:37.200 –> 00:31:47.070 Joseph McElroy: And it’s a breathtaking show put on by the nature that resembles the psychedelic combination of stars falling and fireworks works exploding.

00:31:47.520 –> 00:31:59.160 Joseph McElroy: It is an immersive experience you will never forget 10s of thousands of lightning lightning bugs gather and swarms and flash in harmony in harmony they’re synchronized.

00:31:59.490 –> 00:32:13.230 Joseph McElroy: As the entire for for us alternates between light and darkness and it’s right here in the smoky mountains, is the largest population of synchronous fireplace fireflies in the western hemisphere.

00:32:13.800 –> 00:32:22.560 Joseph McElroy: Now growing up in the mountains, I didn’t know all this to me it was fireflies lightning bugs and we all knew how to hunt for them.

00:32:23.190 –> 00:32:40.050 Joseph McElroy: The chase the capture the release of the lightning bugs it was all very exciting, I remember spending hours in my grandma’s backyard chasing flower flower fireflies and later in the backyard area of the Middle Arc motel which is got a lot of these beautiful fireflies it come there.

00:32:41.430 –> 00:32:52.530 Joseph McElroy: and which be you know the metal art became our family home as well as our business our booth a mason jar with a live carefully poked with ice pick holes it’s important let them breathe.

00:32:53.730 –> 00:33:09.330 Joseph McElroy: Which my dad would put in my sister and brother, and I would chase lightning bugs from dusk until bedtime which can be three or four hours, and I was going up, thank you, my bed I get my babies now to bed at eight to nine o’clock I remember raises to have 11 so different world now.

00:33:11.310 –> 00:33:20.370 Joseph McElroy: But we competed for most of the most the most competed for the most fireflies the brightest jar and the biggest of all the bugs and then and.

00:33:21.180 –> 00:33:37.620 Joseph McElroy: I know this is not what you should do now, but then, when we were you know early teens we also used to smear the poor souls on our arms and our White T shirt so that we could live sort of glow in the dark don’t let your kids know about that now.

00:33:38.880 –> 00:33:46.740 Joseph McElroy: You know it’s probably not the right thing to do, but it was something in my childhood, which was a good, you know for 50 years ago.

00:33:48.240 –> 00:33:58.200 Joseph McElroy: I doubt we ever considered that we were probably interfering with their meetings, either because all this is part of that meeting type hopefully we haven’t diminished that diminish the population too much because of that.

00:34:00.720 –> 00:34:12.180 Joseph McElroy: So you know, and if you’re gonna if you come if you come to the middle market, you want to do it in ecologically you know benign faster bring yourself a mason jar.

00:34:13.560 –> 00:34:22.650 Joseph McElroy: dampened it a paper down places inside the JAR and then place a piece of burlap over the Ram or use an ice ice ice pick to poke holes in the middle.

00:34:23.280 –> 00:34:34.950 Joseph McElroy: disk and then lock into the place and catch the fellas gently, the fire the fargo should actually last the evening, but then release them after they’ve done.

00:34:35.820 –> 00:34:50.490 Joseph McElroy: Now for the adults real which, at this point we most of us listening probably are I would recommend you serve some firefly sweet tea vodka over ice or the lemon wedge in this sprint of sprig of mint.

00:34:51.630 –> 00:34:53.250 Joseph McElroy: We have we have our own.

00:34:54.540 –> 00:35:01.050 Joseph McElroy: recipe at the at the middle Arc that includes berries and things like that in the sweet tea it’s really great so.

00:35:02.280 –> 00:35:14.940 Joseph McElroy: it’s what you can see i’m sort of waxing poetic on this memories, because that was that was one of the one of the things we did all summer long I remember very fondly it’s it’s a mountain.

00:35:15.300 –> 00:35:24.360 Joseph McElroy: Tradition I think it’s a southern tradition in general, so I found you know i’d like to bring poet poetry into some of the things I do in these podcasts and I found this.

00:35:24.750 –> 00:35:32.400 Joseph McElroy: poem to commemorate commemorate my firefighter memories, it has a sort of implemented it, which I think is not as applicable anymore.

00:35:33.270 –> 00:35:50.970 Joseph McElroy: But it’s still very nice it’s by Cynthia blue HALO it’s called firefly mystified by a tiny firefly I gazed and childlike trance the magical flickering lights, to the carry it in its hands.

00:35:52.560 –> 00:36:03.480 Joseph McElroy: And then came some more like earthly stars they twinkle around the tree trunks core fairies dancing in a circle.

00:36:05.220 –> 00:36:14.040 Joseph McElroy: fireflies are slowly fading and I rarely see them now our air suffocating.

00:36:15.210 –> 00:36:21.090 Joseph McElroy: That is killing them somehow will future children, see the magic of their beauty.

00:36:22.110 –> 00:36:26.340 Joseph McElroy: or see them in the pictures and no lights that flicker brightly.

00:36:27.900 –> 00:36:40.110 Joseph McElroy: I think that you know we have to be careful, the environmental factors in the where we live in our parks and just everywhere in the world attack and so that these childhood memories don’t disappear.

00:36:41.520 –> 00:36:55.020 Joseph McElroy: And that our children, our future children can experience them so anyway significant synchronous fireflies are one of the least 19 species, a fireplace that live in the great smoky mountain National Park.

00:36:55.740 –> 00:37:06.240 Joseph McElroy: And they’re the only species in America whoo hoo can can as individuals synchronize their flashing light patterns, with the rest of their tribe.

00:37:08.160 –> 00:37:15.360 Joseph McElroy: So the there there we won’t know that there’s there is a national park has a.

00:37:16.500 –> 00:37:17.100 Joseph McElroy: Viewing.

00:37:18.210 –> 00:37:20.520 Joseph McElroy: schedule that’s usually a couple weeks.

00:37:21.690 –> 00:37:33.210 Joseph McElroy: in late April and May through early June, and they will announce that scheduled towards the late part latter part of April now we’re not sure if code is going to affect that or not.

00:37:33.870 –> 00:37:45.750 Joseph McElroy: But I think there’s some rumors that there will be maybe not as dense not as many people loud, but there will be a lottery all right to be able to.

00:37:46.320 –> 00:37:56.820 Joseph McElroy: Get tickets, and you can get that you can enter the lottery on the because you have to basically it’s a lot harder to be in the show is a shuttle takes you around the view this.

00:37:58.080 –> 00:38:08.490 Joseph McElroy: Is near mount count it’s near elmont campground in smoky mountains National Park, and so you can go in late April [email protected].

00:38:08.910 –> 00:38:16.530 Joseph McElroy: and get yourself some tickets that includes parking at the sugarland visitor Center, which is in gatlinburg and then see to board the shuttle.

00:38:17.010 –> 00:38:22.410 Joseph McElroy: And their outbound therapy Rangers to answer questions and number of paved areas and trails you can.

00:38:23.010 –> 00:38:29.550 Joseph McElroy: You can take the watch the fire alarm slide up at night it’s spectacular I would definitely recommend it, you know.

00:38:30.120 –> 00:38:41.610 Joseph McElroy: there’s there’s a lot of miniature shows all over the smoky mountains and do firefighters, you know fireflies or feature the middle or motel all summer long and and Maggie Valley, we have a lot of fireflies.

00:38:42.210 –> 00:38:52.440 Joseph McElroy: We we have some we have some of the synchronized fireplaces we get some pretty decent show sometimes ourselves so you can come and chance it to see it there as well.

00:38:54.030 –> 00:39:00.780 Joseph McElroy: So i’m going to talk about foraging for food now in the mountains, because there’s a lot of festivals, and things going on around that.

00:39:01.680 –> 00:39:18.270 Joseph McElroy: we’re in when the smoky mountains we’re we’re blessed with an abundance of natural products products forged from our own backyards including ramps and morals and chanterelle mushrooms calif are mushrooms and wild berries.

00:39:19.800 –> 00:39:26.430 Joseph McElroy: yeah know deep in our woods in for the grass begins to green our our colors adventures can begin.

00:39:28.080 –> 00:39:47.340 Joseph McElroy: You know, you can collect Morel mushrooms from understands of conifers and in the hollows and even in the first first spring rains ramp so one of the first patches agreed on the mountain side it’s an animal Member member of the onion family it’s been alternatively called a wild leak.

00:39:48.780 –> 00:39:52.320 Joseph McElroy: and takes its name from a similar plant, the ramping.

00:39:54.330 –> 00:40:05.280 Joseph McElroy: it’s actually sort of believed to have the spring tonic you know sort of a magical potion so mountain fox us to look forward to the return of the.

00:40:06.270 –> 00:40:12.810 Joseph McElroy: Of the ramp after winter of eating mostly dried foods, I remember it was a big thing growing up in the mountains.

00:40:13.200 –> 00:40:28.440 Joseph McElroy: You have to have the spring ramps The thing is, you have to be careful mean in school because of you ate too many of them, the day before, when you came in the smell would come through your pores and instincts are bad, they actually send you home from school.

00:40:29.700 –> 00:40:41.190 Joseph McElroy: So it’s a delicacy, but it has a older and so you have to balance, how much you eat or just not care about it, it has a hint of garlic but it’s sweet.

00:40:42.780 –> 00:40:58.080 Joseph McElroy: And it works it’s really nice with home cured bake and in the morning, eggs and you know i’m lately, in the last couple years i’ve actually seen some ramps and whole foods and now had it with morning eggs and man made omelets and stuff with them surprise people with a really nice flavor.

00:40:59.730 –> 00:41:09.930 Joseph McElroy: You know that later in the summary or things come out like the chanterelles the blank trumpets and make lots of crap varieties and bullet abilities and.

00:41:11.190 –> 00:41:12.150 Joseph McElroy: And you can.

00:41:13.200 –> 00:41:24.420 Joseph McElroy: You can find hedgehog mushrooms and watering pause pause and persimmons and wild crab crab apples and Alaska dimes and Huckleberry is and on and on.

00:41:26.010 –> 00:41:36.750 Joseph McElroy: But remember that you have to be careful picking plants in the smoky mountains, because it’s prohibited, but there are some rules allow you to pick fruits and berries and nuts and mushrooms.

00:41:37.440 –> 00:41:47.490 Joseph McElroy: You shouldn’t eat the mushrooms, and things and you don’t know what they are, because they can be deadly, but there are plenty of tours and festivals and events to scratch it forging itch.

00:41:49.470 –> 00:41:50.340 Joseph McElroy: There is.

00:41:52.050 –> 00:41:54.150 Joseph McElroy: You can there’s some tours you can take.

00:41:55.350 –> 00:42:03.810 Joseph McElroy: In asheville North Carolina you can take forage tours and right now there’s some bunch of tours going on until June 13.

00:42:05.190 –> 00:42:11.280 Joseph McElroy: And you can pick foods and herbs and it’s usually like a three hour off the beaten path.

00:42:13.110 –> 00:42:23.670 Joseph McElroy: tour and where you can discover animal Greens berries, mushrooms flowers and that’s the rooms you never know what you might not know monitored with the group and the force and then you will.

00:42:25.020 –> 00:42:39.810 Joseph McElroy: You will find 10 to 20 wild foods, focusing on ones that you could possibly find it or woods in the background, if you the mountains and you make them in the meal, you have a chef show you how to do it you’ll get a book on you know, on on.

00:42:40.830 –> 00:42:43.710 Joseph McElroy: How you how you cook it and then.

00:42:44.850 –> 00:42:57.150 Joseph McElroy: Then you can you know have wine and great food and experience it’s a really sort of a great experience of being a modern hundred gather so you can go to no taste like home.org.

00:42:57.510 –> 00:43:12.450 Joseph McElroy: To find out more about that sort of experience to figure to experience foraging and I think that you will enjoy it when we come back i’m going to talk about a little bit of things local to the haywood county things that you can do, including the winds will ramp festival.

00:43:14.100 –> 00:43:15.000 you’re listening to.

00:43:30.420 –> 00:43:41.190 www.TalkRadio.NYC: Small Business trying to navigate the coven 19 related employment laws Hello i’m Eric savoured climate log business law attorney and host of the new radio show employment law today.

00:43:41.880 –> 00:43:54.540 www.TalkRadio.NYC: On my show who have guests, to discuss the common employment law challenges business owners are facing during these trying times tune in on to the things from 5pm to 6pm Eastern time on talk radio dot nyc.

00:44:01.890 –> 00:44:09.090 www.TalkRadio.NYC: host of the new podcast gateway to the smokies it airs on talk radio dot nyc every Tuesday night from 6pm.

00:44:10.050 –> 00:44:16.350 www.TalkRadio.NYC: Every episode is dedicated to memorable experiences in the great smoky mountain national park and surrounding areas.

00:44:16.710 –> 00:44:27.660 www.TalkRadio.NYC: This shadow features experts and locals will expound upon the richness of culture, history and and adventure that a way to in the smoking tune in every Tuesday from 6pm to seven on talk radio dot nyc.

00:44:32.580 –> 00:44:43.560 www.TalkRadio.NYC: Do you love, or are you intrigued about New York City and its neighborhoods i’m Jeff Goodman host of rediscovering New York weekly show that showcases New York sister and it’s extraordinary neighborhoods.

00:44:44.340 –> 00:44:57.030 www.TalkRadio.NYC: Every Tuesday live at 7pm we focus on a particular neighborhood and explore its history, its vibe its field and its energy tune in live every Tuesday at 7pm on talk radio dot nyc.

00:44:59.040 –> 00:45:05.520 www.TalkRadio.NYC: To talk radio nyc at www talk radio dot nyc now broadcasting.

00:45:30.840 –> 00:45:36.750 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin mcilroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcast.

00:45:38.130 –> 00:45:45.330 Joseph McElroy: So I was talking about foraging for food and one of the most well known locally anyway.

00:45:47.280 –> 00:45:57.330 Joseph McElroy: natural food that we have in the mountains, is the ramps and I mentioned that before their natural their native wild again and their harvest in the spring, for the mountain sides.

00:45:57.870 –> 00:46:12.360 Joseph McElroy: Every year for 80 plus years wayne’s little North Carolina has had the waynesville North Carolina ramp buzz and it’s a pretty spectacular event for the mountains it’s it has.

00:46:14.160 –> 00:46:29.010 Joseph McElroy: It highlights the ramps it’s a native wild and and they basically make all sorts of coronary delicious delicacy dishes to celebrate the ramps.

00:46:30.210 –> 00:46:37.950 Joseph McElroy: And off ramps are so chairs, they were actually finished featured in garden and guns celebrate the south Oracle magazine.

00:46:38.880 –> 00:47:00.630 Joseph McElroy: So you want you, they also have music and vendors and all sorts of stuff it’s just a large tradition that is it’s worth the temps spending time to go to it on this year I think it’s gonna be it’s gonna be held on may 1 and second you’ll be able to get more information that visit.

00:47:02.100 –> 00:47:06.000 Joseph McElroy: nyc visit nc smokies COM.

00:47:08.070 –> 00:47:16.920 Joseph McElroy: And and winslow’s near Maggie balance so be sure to stay at the metal Arc and will help you get to wherever you’re going another.

00:47:18.450 –> 00:47:28.710 Joseph McElroy: vessel celebrating the foil forging and things that you can found them mountains, is the national spring festival it’s in his fourth decade.

00:47:29.340 –> 00:47:35.940 Joseph McElroy: And it’s from April 30 to may 2 is the largest herb festival in the United States.

00:47:36.510 –> 00:47:51.840 Joseph McElroy: And this event showcases over 60 vendors with products like herbal medicines holistic treatments herbal soaps and shampoos gourmet cooking herbs cookbooks etc and usually have lots of educational opportunities, you know.

00:47:53.460 –> 00:47:56.250 Joseph McElroy: Various kinds of courses going on.

00:47:57.360 –> 00:48:04.200 Joseph McElroy: it’s a very popular event, and you can find more about that at the asheville herb festival.org.

00:48:07.500 –> 00:48:08.250 Joseph McElroy: Another.

00:48:09.420 –> 00:48:16.680 Joseph McElroy: event celebrating you know the the the the.

00:48:18.270 –> 00:48:27.210 Joseph McElroy: The foil edge of the the bounds, and this is what I could have mentioned earlier, is the Montfort montford garden tour.

00:48:27.780 –> 00:48:37.620 Joseph McElroy: And it is a historic tour, but it hasn’t been held in 17 years and this year they’re having it on June 5 from 10am to 5pm.

00:48:38.250 –> 00:48:47.340 Joseph McElroy: And it is featuring 12 distinct distinctive montford gardens, and it really is raising funds for Community initiatives.

00:48:47.700 –> 00:49:01.500 Joseph McElroy: And there’s there’s this their gardens are pretty spectacular have a variety of landscapes and they and several the gardens are in homes that are over 120 years old and, while others are some that are recently bit built.

00:49:02.520 –> 00:49:13.560 Joseph McElroy: There will also be live there will also be some some new greetings mixer be live musicians will be performing at many of the gardens and coding boot bluegrass jazz.

00:49:14.190 –> 00:49:24.240 Joseph McElroy: folk and classical styles and there’ll be a commemorative oil painting that will be available through silent auctions the artists own garden.

00:49:25.800 –> 00:49:31.770 Joseph McElroy: And you can find out more about [email protected] slash garden tour.

00:49:33.630 –> 00:49:39.450 Joseph McElroy: So I just wanted to highlight a few things going on Maggie valley next week we’ll be talking about Maggie Valley.

00:49:40.530 –> 00:49:53.550 Joseph McElroy: But on April April 23 to the 25th we’re going to be doing the annual southeastern mini trucking national it’s an open car and truck show and actually have.

00:49:54.030 –> 00:50:07.410 Joseph McElroy: Food vendors and music and part vendors these, we have a lot of car and motorcycle shows in Maggie now because we have a nice festival grounds, but these are all these all these.

00:50:08.340 –> 00:50:15.450 Joseph McElroy: shows are actually family friendly they usually have all sorts of vendor setup with different kinds of mountain foods.

00:50:16.500 –> 00:50:29.250 Joseph McElroy: and other kinds of culinary delights and vendor selling crafts and and other unique items some of the more unique and others there’s always something new to discover so they’re all fun.

00:50:29.970 –> 00:50:42.060 Joseph McElroy: The big one is April 30 through may 2 that’s thunder in the smoky spring motorcycle rally it’s the largest and oldest rally in Maggie Valley, and it goes like three days.

00:50:42.690 –> 00:50:53.100 Joseph McElroy: And it has has to arises got lots of vendors as a bike shows got games prizes concerts fire dancers, the latest pilots and products on the.

00:50:53.790 –> 00:51:09.900 Joseph McElroy: display it’s got he has his church service does, I think it does something where celebrates the veterans it has upgraded, you know a lot of the motels that’s included your own little you know best in show type thing so it’s pretty fun it’s.

00:51:11.040 –> 00:51:19.680 Joseph McElroy: worthwhile to go to the Cape may 14 and 15th is the kk O a I kite icons of hot rodding festival.

00:51:20.220 –> 00:51:32.040 Joseph McElroy: And these are 1950s and 1960s hot Rod and custom car truck truck advancements for 1969 older models and it will feature 50s and 60s music.

00:51:32.370 –> 00:51:44.910 Joseph McElroy: vintage vendors of all sorts of stuff from that era, including automotive and things like that pinstripe or food vendors are judging awards and trophy and it’s a family affair, you bet.

00:51:46.500 –> 00:51:54.900 Joseph McElroy: What i’m excited about is a may 28 we’re going to have a drive in concert started last year yeah when people come in, like a drive in theater.

00:51:55.560 –> 00:52:02.760 Joseph McElroy: With the things that you can put on their on their window to have the music and there’s a live stage but they’re in their cars.

00:52:03.420 –> 00:52:20.190 Joseph McElroy: And so it was code friendly and then they they have a able to set up a picnic chairs in your own little space have an event and have their own picnic tailgating and it’s going to be on may 28 the band or too many zoos and big something.

00:52:21.630 –> 00:52:37.230 Joseph McElroy: randomly generally run it’s on a Friday may 28 opens at six shows a 730 tickets very you can contact the Gray eagle at a two a three to 5800 or the Gray eagle calm to get ticket information.

00:52:38.970 –> 00:52:58.200 Joseph McElroy: So you can find out more about this podcast and gateways to the smokies fun and be sure to go there and subscribe to our newsletter so you can be aware of upcoming events and and information about this podcast or the coming upcoming episodes.

00:52:59.730 –> 00:53:10.410 Joseph McElroy: Now I want you to imagine a place evocative emotive courts of the past, yet modern and vibrant with a cheek appalachian feel.

00:53:11.010 –> 00:53:18.060 Joseph McElroy: a place for adventure and for relaxation imagine a place where you can finish it a mountain heritage trout stream.

00:53:18.420 –> 00:53:27.750 Joseph McElroy: grill the catch on fire and eat accompanied by fine wine or craft beers imagine a place with old time music and world cultural sounds.

00:53:28.110 –> 00:53:42.450 Joseph McElroy: There is no other place like the middle earth motel motel and Maggie valley North Carolina we are the starting point for all the adventures and studies, the mountain mountains have to offer your smoky mountain adventure starts with where you stay.

00:53:43.980 –> 00:54:02.190 Joseph McElroy: I own another site, called the smoky adventure smokies adventure calm smokies is plural adventure calm sm Okay, ie s adventure calm and we have they’re all sorts of information and lists listings about the smokies and books and guides and maps that you can buy or download.

00:54:03.570 –> 00:54:18.210 Joseph McElroy: We also feature venues and resources it’s an APP it focuses on outdoor recreation outdoor life and also things like weddings and adventures, and also highlights of the places to stay where to eat all that sort of stuff.

00:54:18.660 –> 00:54:36.600 Joseph McElroy: it’s going to be deleting information portal for those smoky mountains next week we’re going to have Theresa Smith director of the Maggie valley Chamber commerce on the gateway to the smokies podcast we will be talking about the history of Maggie valley and and how it.

00:54:37.650 –> 00:54:47.040 Joseph McElroy: How it is origin and the period of when ghost town was the main thing in the whole area and then how things are going now and there’s a rumor.

00:54:47.430 –> 00:55:05.250 Joseph McElroy: That ghost town might be opening again so maybe we’ll get some insight into that I look forward to talking to her, we are part of the talk radio dot nyc network on this network or many podcasts live podcast every day.

00:55:06.270 –> 00:55:12.030 Joseph McElroy: there’s a good one, I believe, after this about New York, you should stick around and listen to if you’re listening live.

00:55:12.630 –> 00:55:25.170 Joseph McElroy: I have enjoyed it so if you’ve had the mountains now, you can have the ultimate urban experience listening to about New York, where I where I live, though i’m down in North Carolina all the time.

00:55:26.700 –> 00:55:37.230 Joseph McElroy: I appreciate everybody for being here tune in next week same time you know it’s every to every Tuesday from six to 7pm on talk radio dot nyc.

00:55:37.500 –> 00:55:56.370 Joseph McElroy: You can also catch us on Facebook COM slash gateway to the smoke is podcast where you will see the streaming zoom live and you’ll see my our faces, my face or and my guest faces when I have guests and enjoy the experience, so thank you for listening and we’ll see you next week.

Our guest in this episode is Terrance and Caden Painter - Terrance is a member of the Piedmont Craftsmen, has won many awards, and has worked in collections all over the world. He has been a full-time potter for more than 38 years. He combines his first love of drawing and painting to execute detailed landscape scenes on clay forms. 

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Tune in for this fun conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.

Today’s topic will be pottery in the mountains, but first Joseph talks about crafts. Joseph reminisces about creating pottery in grade school. He dives further into the history of crafts in the mountains, starting with weaving and moving into more recent developments such as craft competitions. Eventually, craft guilds developed, turning into craft shops that became tourist attractions. Joseph introduces today’s guest, Terrance Painter, who is also joined by his son Caden. Terrance and Joseph talk about their experiences growing up by the Meadowlark Motel. Terance goes on to talk about how he went from being an engineering major to an artist. Next Kaiden discusses his journey from a successful IT career into art.

Terance talks more about how he made his decision to become a full-time artist and the struggles he faced along the way. For a long time, Terrance was one of the few artists in the area, but the culture has really developed, with art, and pottery specifically becoming more popular. Terrance talks a little about the clays used and the characteristics of the pottery in the mountains. He discusses the variety of potteries from around the world from which he has taken inspiration.

Terance talks about the variety of pottery he makes, from plates to tile wall hangings, to jars, etc. For the landscape drawings in some of his works, Terrance often takes inspiration from the trees in the mountains. He goes on to discuss the changes he’s seen in his art since his son joined him, focusing on the drums they are making. Kaiden and Terrance are interrupted by their dog and talk a little about how well having a dog around pottery works. Caden discusses their process of creating a drum, from sound to look. Terrance discusses the origin of his shop’s name. Joseph asks him to talk a little about potters who influenced him.

Terance talks about the inspiration for the book he wrote with his wife. Caden and Terrance joke about how guests in the shop often assume that a career in pottery is relaxing, but it really is a job for them. They enjoy being able to make a variety of pottery, creating work that speaks to them.

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00:00:34.620 –> 00:00:40.470 Joseph McElroy: howdy thanks for joining us on this week’s episode of gateway to the smokies.

00:00:40.950 –> 00:00:47.520 Joseph McElroy: This podcast is about America’s most visited National Park, the great smoky mountains National Park.

00:00:47.850 –> 00:00:57.480 Joseph McElroy: and the surrounding towns. this area’s filled with ancient natural beauty a deep story history and rich mountain culture that we explore with weekly episodes.

00:00:57.960 –> 00:01:09.360 Joseph McElroy: I am Joseph Franklin McElroy man of the world, but also a deep root in these mountains my family is living the great smokies for over 200 years my businesses and travel, but my heart is in culture.

00:01:10.080 –> 00:01:28.380 Joseph McElroy: Now today we’re talking about pottery in the smoky mountains, with a very well known pottery otters artists, but I’m a first let’s talk a little bit about crafts in the mountains, I was a grown-up craft art were an important part of smoky mountain living now I remember.

00:01:29.460 –> 00:01:37.380 Joseph McElroy: I will, one of the things that everybody, I think, did I don’t know if this happened over the States, but it happened, the mountains, we all had to learn how to make pottery and in grade school.

00:01:38.880 –> 00:01:52.410 Joseph McElroy: And I came home with these wild interpretations of candle holders and ashtray as and sort of reinvented the definition of what they were my brothers and sisters would be more.

00:01:53.430 –> 00:02:03.360 Joseph McElroy: You know originalist in their intent and came back with stuff that functional mind wasn’t done, but I am the one that still has some of my original artwork in the potteries phase.

00:02:04.530 –> 00:02:11.910 Joseph McElroy: I think there’s all disappeared, over time, I also remember, making the dolls how to record shucks that’s pretty big.

00:02:12.360 –> 00:02:21.480 Joseph McElroy: that’s a pretty big craft in the mountains, as well as I also made a little mice people out of marbles with glue them together and make a little felt clothing and.

00:02:21.870 –> 00:02:39.390 Joseph McElroy: And I remember painting on saw blades so there’s a whole lot of tradition of craft-type activities in the mountains and as a part of the fabric of life from quilt making the chainsaw sculptures you can’t drive a mile without seeing some crass.

00:02:40.800 –> 00:02:46.710 Joseph McElroy: But, and there is this long history, but you know, there was a time when the crafts are dying out because of poverty.

00:02:48.390 –> 00:02:56.640 Joseph McElroy: And then in 1890 a Presbyterian missionary named Francis l Goodrich arrived in western North Carolina near Asheville and she

00:02:57.720 –> 00:03:05.760 Joseph McElroy: And a lot of the traditional crafts, like weaving and spinning and blacksmith thing we’re not doing too well, because it was an impoverished area.

00:03:06.360 –> 00:03:19.560 Joseph McElroy: But she got this cover lit that was woven in what was called a double bock bow not pattern, where the golden brown on a cream-colored background and it had been dyed with chestnut okay and.

00:03:20.130 –> 00:03:25.200 Joseph McElroy: it was a revelation to her, she never really seen anything you know coming, for I think.

00:03:25.770 –> 00:03:33.030 Joseph McElroy: You know Baltimore or somewhere like that, and it really opened our eyes to the craft movement crafts, to you know the craft.

00:03:33.450 –> 00:03:42.840 Joseph McElroy: available in the mountains and she’s there she found that these mountain neighbor women, many of them still had the skills of hand skills of doing this, so she would their encouragement.

00:03:43.890 –> 00:03:51.000 Joseph McElroy: would encourage them to start weaving colorless and then she did made a northern market for those crafts, she ended up creating.

00:03:52.200 –> 00:04:04.260 Joseph McElroy: A craft business that was eventually rolled into the southern Highland craft Guild in night when she retired in 1930 she was very much the succession she retired asheville.

00:04:06.030 –> 00:04:14.280 Joseph McElroy: And she was a lot of several other mountain crafts leading crafts people organize the southern highlands.

00:04:14.850 –> 00:04:22.620 Joseph McElroy: Any graphic it was still exists, to this day, and it was it was instrumental in launching the southern appalachian handy gaffer handicraft revival.

00:04:23.100 –> 00:04:29.940 Joseph McElroy: And is considered one of the oldest craft gills in the country, second only to the Boston society of arts and culture.

00:04:30.390 –> 00:04:39.900 Joseph McElroy: And participants today are active active and educator she mission of the Gill, taking parts and crafts and demonstrations fairs and special events and things like that.

00:04:40.350 –> 00:04:46.530 Joseph McElroy: Now for the tourists they hold a I have a couple of big events, each year, they have a heritage weekend in.

00:04:47.460 –> 00:05:06.870 Joseph McElroy: In in September around the second or third week weekend in September and its traditional music dancing stairs storytelling and lots of heritage craft demonstration and they have a 30th and they have this year I think i’m the 30th annual we jaw how women digital competition.

00:05:08.370 –> 00:05:13.410 Joseph McElroy: that’s a mouthful a women did is an appalachian mountain toy made from two sticks of wood.

00:05:13.770 –> 00:05:24.060 Joseph McElroy: knocks as a carbon one piece and a propellers attached to the other and rubbing the stick with the propeller against the not the not stick makes it G spin to the right or hot turned to the left.

00:05:24.510 –> 00:05:34.260 Joseph McElroy: So it’s a it’s a it’s a fun it’s a fun event to go to and you see a lot of traditional arts and crafts and it’s a national North Carolina the folk art Center, then the.

00:05:35.400 –> 00:05:43.680 Joseph McElroy: The southern graph can also holds one of the oldest since 1948 laws and largest juried craft fairs and it’s a major.

00:05:44.640 –> 00:05:52.170 Joseph McElroy: exposition Peter featuring the latest work of crafts, crafts people all around the area and it’s at the actual civic Center in October.

00:05:53.070 –> 00:06:05.130 Joseph McElroy: So please go to craft guild.org to find out more about that now I don’t want to only talk about smokies also includes Tennessee and gatlinburg is also a big area for crafts.

00:06:06.120 –> 00:06:17.790 Joseph McElroy: And it’s and it actually has one of the largest organizations have independent artisans in North America and it’s in gatlinburg is called the smoky mountains arts and crafts community and they.

00:06:18.600 –> 00:06:23.370 Joseph McElroy: They they make lots of beautiful and wonderful crafts, as well known, and it was.

00:06:24.210 –> 00:06:30.870 Joseph McElroy: It was created in 1937 seem the 30s was a big time for creating all these craft gills and colleges and things.

00:06:31.170 –> 00:06:39.210 Joseph McElroy: So it was there was a word Karma named john Calvin who decided that they didn’t just want to sell the stores in gatlinburg.

00:06:39.480 –> 00:06:49.800 Joseph McElroy: They wanted to sell directly to the client so he organized the community of classroom so people can build visit their studios and things like that, and so it became this thing this Community.

00:06:50.340 –> 00:06:55.050 Joseph McElroy: crafts going let’s now a big tourist attraction and go there, look around.

00:06:55.800 –> 00:07:11.430 Joseph McElroy: there’s just three miles out of gatlinburg and it’s an eight mile loop on route 321 bucks Warren glades road and there’s over 100 shops featuring craft, ranging from elaborate crypt crips to brooms to handles pottery and all sorts of stuff.

00:07:12.780 –> 00:07:20.790 Joseph McElroy: And it’s got and you can actually see people working on their craft while it’s going out there’s also they also have.

00:07:21.480 –> 00:07:32.220 Joseph McElroy: A gatlinburg art tour and a trolley going through gatlinburg that will reach a lot of the arts and crafts so it’s the whole area of the whole smoky mountains area has a lot of.

00:07:32.910 –> 00:07:44.760 Joseph McElroy: Wonderful crafts and a lot of features pottery and that’s what we’re going to be talking about for the rest of the show my guest today is Terrence painter he’s here with his son kayden painter.

00:07:45.090 –> 00:07:52.020 Joseph McElroy: And he is a member and Terrence is a member of the Piedmont craftsman craftsman another organization formed in the 30s.

00:07:53.670 –> 00:07:58.230 Joseph McElroy: And he was won many awards and has and has worked in collections all the War world he has been a.

00:07:58.440 –> 00:08:05.040 Joseph McElroy: full time part of potter for more than 38 years he combines his first love of drawing and painting texts to detail landscape scenes.

00:08:05.310 –> 00:08:16.830 Joseph McElroy: On clay forms kayden left is successful, it career in 2018 to apprentice with his father and now has become a successful potter himself Hello Terry and caden.

00:08:18.930 –> 00:08:21.450 Caden Painter: hey Joe how are you good to see you.

00:08:21.630 –> 00:08:27.600 Joseph McElroy: good to see you so so one of the one of those little things that that’s that’s a.

00:08:28.920 –> 00:08:44.010 Joseph McElroy: real joy for me is that that your studio is located, very close to my motel and Maggie value the metal or motel and what what little piece of trivia here is that your dad actually built the metal Arc motel and you, like me, spent our.

00:08:44.730 –> 00:08:50.700 Joseph McElroy: Our part and part or all of our childhood growing up at the middle or motel how you like those days.

00:08:51.450 –> 00:09:03.960 Caden Painter: yeah it was a great place to grow up it really was you know I met people from from all over the country, and it was a fabulous place to be a kid really was.

00:09:04.170 –> 00:09:09.600 Joseph McElroy: yeah right do you, what do you remember your favorite thing to do and Maggie valley those days was.

00:09:10.170 –> 00:09:13.020 Caden Painter: I couldn’t keep my feet out of Johnson creek.

00:09:14.370 –> 00:09:23.910 Caden Painter: Johnson creek large large stream runs right to the backyard of the metal art and gee whiz I spent.

00:09:25.170 –> 00:09:28.410 Caden Painter: hours and days and weeks in Johnson creek.

00:09:29.250 –> 00:09:29.940 Joseph McElroy: Listen, I use.

00:09:30.510 –> 00:09:33.210 Caden Painter: it’s part of the State trout waters so.

00:09:33.270 –> 00:09:34.320 Joseph McElroy: yeah there’s a lot.

00:09:34.320 –> 00:09:40.170 Joseph McElroy: of very active about fishing now Jonathan green yeah I used to tubing that quite a bit yeah when.

00:09:40.200 –> 00:09:42.120 Joseph McElroy: Especially when you had a little bit of Ram.

00:09:42.180 –> 00:09:52.440 Joseph McElroy: You in there to go tubing and everything else now, it was a it was it has this huge recreation area, so it was really a really great place so.

00:09:54.030 –> 00:09:56.940 Joseph McElroy: When did you get interested arts and pottery.

00:09:59.070 –> 00:10:01.890 Caden Painter: Well, when I was a kid.

00:10:03.300 –> 00:10:18.900 Caden Painter: I was about 12 years old, and there was a lady Helen Sylvia that had a painting studio just diagonally across the street here and started painting with her and I had some success added a soul painting at the middle Arc.

00:10:19.260 –> 00:10:19.740 yeah.

00:10:21.060 –> 00:10:22.590 motel and.

00:10:24.450 –> 00:10:26.610 Caden Painter: Are we still come in through the frozen up.

00:10:26.670 –> 00:10:30.630 Joseph McElroy: We can we can see you freeze up, but your voice is coming through five yeah.

00:10:31.980 –> 00:10:34.020 Caden Painter: Okay, go all right and.

00:10:35.100 –> 00:10:38.790 Caden Painter: My parents both school teachers, as well as motel operators.

00:10:39.900 –> 00:10:45.150 Caden Painter: made it clear career and art was not going to be a possibility for me and.

00:10:46.440 –> 00:10:56.610 Caden Painter: They they sent me off to a well known school of engineering, to try to become an engineer, I was very, very unhappy in that pursuit.

00:10:57.270 –> 00:11:06.780 Caden Painter: dropped out of college for a semester, and they decided at the end of that that may be coming in art major wouldn’t be the worst thing.

00:11:07.500 –> 00:11:15.360 Caden Painter: That happened to their son so went to Western Carolina university as a painting and making major.

00:11:16.050 –> 00:11:31.890 Caden Painter: And pottery looked very unappealing to me, I put it off put it off, I had to take one required course in pottery finally caved in took that course and within two weeks felt like this is why i’m here.

00:11:32.910 –> 00:11:40.710 Caden Painter: Well, ironically, my great great granddad Joseph painter i’m episodes of pilling i’m sorry.

00:11:43.020 –> 00:11:51.000 Caden Painter: was a potter in candler that’s about halfway between here in asheville he was a potter there in the late 1800s.

00:11:52.290 –> 00:11:56.730 Caden Painter: You son carried on the pottery up into the 1920s.

00:11:57.750 –> 00:12:02.940 Caden Painter: They were not artists, they were craftsman potter’s making strictly functional where.

00:12:04.080 –> 00:12:20.190 Caden Painter: my grandmother who had worked in the pottery as a child always felt like it was genetic it was it was in my blood just resurfaced after a couple of generations dormant for a while, but, but the love of pottery came back in me so maybe she was driving I don’t know.

00:12:21.270 –> 00:12:28.770 Joseph McElroy: Well, I guess that runs into blood kayden have come you decide to come, become the potter after having a successful I seeker well.

00:12:28.800 –> 00:12:35.880 Caden Painter: I I grew up here in the pottery studio with my dad and every summer.

00:12:37.650 –> 00:12:50.400 during school we you know when school’s out the summer I would come and work here with him in the studio and and make things with them and I just I had that memory and I.

00:12:52.350 –> 00:12:54.780 I went off to study.

00:12:55.860 –> 00:13:08.010 It and got a master’s from an engineering school and project management and thought that that was really going to be my my pursuit.

00:13:09.510 –> 00:13:19.650 But I just always had this kind of nagging feeling like I missed making things I had this drive to to make things and.

00:13:21.060 –> 00:13:29.640 I was, I was not getting that that need met and what I was doing and so yeah and.

00:13:31.020 –> 00:13:37.260 took my dad and my mom out to dinner and made this proposition.

00:13:39.000 –> 00:13:44.790 Caden Painter: I become his apprentice, and they all thought I was crazy.

00:13:46.770 –> 00:13:51.990 Joseph McElroy: Really crazy right it’s a it’s a mountain tradition for a person’s default.

00:13:53.190 –> 00:13:55.590 Caden Painter: We are having the time of our life.

00:13:56.700 –> 00:14:00.210 Caden Painter: we’re having having the best time working together yeah yeah.

00:14:00.330 –> 00:14:08.400 Joseph McElroy: All right, well, when we come back from the break we’ll find out a little bit more about your history as a potter and then we’ll get into the art of okay.

00:17:07.980 –> 00:17:16.860 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin McElroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcasts and my guest parents whiteness white like.

00:17:17.610 –> 00:17:37.560 Joseph McElroy: The tears painter with his son kayden painter and so Terrence you know jumping into the arts was one thing, but inside they make a full time career of a potter is another and how did you decide to do that, well, I was young and naive and.

00:17:39.300 –> 00:17:39.960 and

00:17:42.360 –> 00:17:51.570 Caden Painter: owned nothing and had no other responsibilities and was able to really dive into it and just devote myself heart and soul.

00:17:52.260 –> 00:18:04.560 Caden Painter: To it I think that’s that the real hard part of becoming a successful artists or craftsman is to get past those first three to five years.

00:18:05.310 –> 00:18:19.470 Caden Painter: In there and it’s really, really a huge huge challenge and those things just kind of happened at a time in my life when when I could accommodate those challenges and survive the first three.

00:18:19.620 –> 00:18:25.410 Joseph McElroy: First, until the business kind of began to take hold and yeah.

00:18:26.550 –> 00:18:37.320 Joseph McElroy: So you you studied in school, and then you came he did you study anywhere else or did you come back to the area yeah came back to Western Western Carolina universities right.

00:18:38.490 –> 00:18:44.340 And, and we searched for a good while for a studio space.

00:18:46.560 –> 00:18:57.630 That we could move into, and this place just kind of fell in our in our lap when I was growing up normal rodgers he was the principal of Maggie valley school.

00:18:58.020 –> 00:19:07.410 This was his home this all log cabin he built his cat and with his bare hands, you know back in the 1930s and it’s just been a great studio.

00:19:08.010 –> 00:19:19.620 For us, I was in graduate school because still no one in the family, thought that I could make a living doing this and this building came available to us.

00:19:20.700 –> 00:19:24.810 Joseph McElroy: And I left graduate school, I saw temporarily.

00:19:25.980 –> 00:19:36.150 Joseph McElroy: To get the business off the ground, well, that was 1980 and i’ve been making pots full time ever since I never went back yeah finished the masters, I remember, I remember, I remember.

00:19:36.780 –> 00:19:50.850 Joseph McElroy: I remember the opening of you, opening up and that was like a potter it was like the different the different drummer now it’s like you know Maggie valley at the time was still a very much.

00:19:52.200 –> 00:20:05.250 Joseph McElroy: You know ghost town town right, it was a it was a ghost towns amusement Park, and it was you know families coming in, on mass to go to ghost town and that’s what it was for so opening up an art studio.

00:20:07.470 –> 00:20:15.810 Joseph McElroy: i’m sorry go ahead yeah yeah here here’s here’s the thing, though, that we that we have discovered about Maggie valley in this area.

00:20:17.220 –> 00:20:18.210 We have.

00:20:19.530 –> 00:20:30.870 Joseph McElroy: So many beautiful inspiring natural resources, right here in our backyard of course smoky mountains National Park there’s the blue Ridge parkway is only five miles away.

00:20:31.890 –> 00:20:33.480 we’re surrounded by.

00:20:34.500 –> 00:20:44.820 Caden Painter: The pisco national forest, we have the shining rock wilderness area just right here in our back door, and we literally see people from all over the world.

00:20:45.750 –> 00:20:57.510 Caden Painter: On highway 19 passing by in front of our shop here so, even though it seems like it would be just a ghost town town a ghost town, being a theme park.

00:20:57.690 –> 00:20:59.940 Joseph McElroy: yeah that was here in Maggie.

00:21:01.140 –> 00:21:06.630 Joseph McElroy: It really is a lot more than that because of, I think, because of the geographic location.

00:21:07.500 –> 00:21:19.950 Joseph McElroy: No, I you know I you know I think he proved it right yeah but you know superficially if you’d looked at it, you know it was you know it was there wasn’t a lot of art compared to say waynesville or silver.

00:21:20.370 –> 00:21:26.730 Joseph McElroy: You know, or even national there you know there wasn’t a lot of art and going on going on, you know one point my dad.

00:21:27.330 –> 00:21:41.790 Joseph McElroy: My dad was mayor, you know and one point he tried to you know that little motel beside the festival grounds right that that’s been empty for years he tried to hit the town to buy that and make it into an artist Community right, but that was like a no go.

00:21:43.470 –> 00:21:47.790 Joseph McElroy: Right so but I see, I think, several attempts at.

00:21:48.810 –> 00:22:06.930 Joseph McElroy: trying to get an artist Community going here, you know we were we were all alone, for a long, long time any other craftsman to speak up in a wood county but that’s really changed always change this change, a lot of people have grown into in the in the in the area, so.

00:22:08.160 –> 00:22:14.910 Joseph McElroy: yeah North I think North Carolina has a reputation of being a pottery state, probably the best pottery state why do you think that is.

00:22:18.270 –> 00:22:21.210 Some of it, I guess is just happenstance.

00:22:22.980 –> 00:22:33.450 There are three major pottery areas in North Carolina there’s of course seagrove down in the eastern part of the state of widely widely recognized unknown pottery Center.

00:22:34.890 –> 00:22:52.770 And then there’s the top of valley pottery tradition down around hickory and then of course there’s this asheville kind of kind of within the orbit of asheville and I really mean the whole appalachian range from from boon to Murphy.

00:22:53.940 –> 00:22:56.340 Joseph McElroy: has drawn has drawn artists.

00:22:57.750 –> 00:23:12.720 from all over the country they’ve moved here kayden tell them some why you think they’ve come to us here yeah I mean I think a lot of it, and I have no data necessarily to back this up, but it seems to me that we see a lot of artists here.

00:23:14.250 –> 00:23:16.440 Because of the the aesthetics.

00:23:17.940 –> 00:23:21.450 Of the region that there’s a lot of.

00:23:24.330 –> 00:23:40.380 there’s there’s a lot of inspirational resource here and all year long you know whether it’s you know that that neon green fresh spring the lush summer, of course, the colors of fall and.

00:23:40.800 –> 00:23:56.340 And then kind of the starkness of winter, even when you know all the underbrush dies back, and you can really see deep into the forest there’s just a lot there’s a lot there, and of course there’s you know the grand scale of you know, the long views.

00:23:57.420 –> 00:24:00.690 You know the high mountain views, but also on kind of a macro level.

00:24:02.460 –> 00:24:06.180 there’s just a lot there’s a lot of inspiration to pull from.

00:24:07.290 –> 00:24:20.070 Joseph McElroy: Would you also say that now it’s it’s it’s enhanced because you can sell your pottery online you don’t have to go to go to places is that is that a benefit is that something that’s helpful.

00:24:23.430 –> 00:24:30.390 Joseph McElroy: Yes, I would say, I would say that, certainly, you know that that’s certainly an extra tool that, yes, but.

00:24:32.850 –> 00:24:33.720 You know I.

00:24:34.860 –> 00:24:43.380 Joseph McElroy: We sell most everything we can make right out the front door here yeah so cool well you’re you’re you’re on a highway that gets a million people and you’re coming.

00:24:46.170 –> 00:24:48.180 Joseph McElroy: Not everybody has that sort of day.

00:24:50.760 –> 00:25:12.570 Joseph McElroy: Something that Internet exposure has really done for us the it draws even more people to us right, no, we find that when people are visiting the southern appalachian region, whether they’re in nashville or over in Tennessee for boom blowing rock.

00:25:13.740 –> 00:25:25.830 Joseph McElroy: They they find us online and they might not have driven by the front door of the shop in the past, now they can they can locate is really, really easily with a couple of clicks.

00:25:26.430 –> 00:25:36.330 Joseph McElroy: Their cell phone give them directions about how to drive straight to our shop so yeah we’re seeing a big impact on that and other you know some other mediums might certainly.

00:25:36.870 –> 00:25:50.460 Joseph McElroy: They may see a lot more, you know business through in a website and, of course, you know, like I said, our websites a great tool for us but there’s something about pottery that oh you gotta touch it yeah especially good stuff i’ve seen it it’s.

00:25:52.710 –> 00:26:03.930 Joseph McElroy: Now you is there, do you get materials from the mountains, you get materials to make any of your work or is that too specialized yeah there really aren’t.

00:26:06.210 –> 00:26:21.180 Many at all of commercially mind materials in the mountains now you know there’s certainly play deposits and the old timers dug their clay locally, obviously we did not.

00:26:23.190 –> 00:26:25.770 Like in our stone where it plays.

00:26:26.910 –> 00:26:35.100 Caden Painter: The fire clay comes from Missouri the ballclub comes from Kentucky we use a kale and from a North Florida so.

00:26:35.610 –> 00:26:53.340 Caden Painter: It it tends to be regional in in that sense there’s kind of a just kind of an East West divide Potters who tend to be on the west coast, they have their own sources out there potter’s who are on the east coast these plays that are their mind out this direction.

00:26:54.120 –> 00:27:06.000 Joseph McElroy: Well, if you if you had to give you one statement about what would be characteristic of the pottery and the smoky mountains, what would be that characteristic well that’s.

00:27:06.780 –> 00:27:17.100 Joseph McElroy: that’s a tough question because we, we are not traditional Potters, even though I have traditional pottery in my family heritage.

00:27:19.200 –> 00:27:34.080 Our influences are much, much broader than that you know i’ve i’ve studied everything from and I draw a lot of inspiration, not just from pottery but i’ve looked at everything from.

00:27:35.910 –> 00:27:39.600 song dynasty Chinese pottery porcelain.

00:27:41.010 –> 00:27:59.130 He dynasty Korean bronze castings i’ve studied the architectural border patterns in Angkor Wat in Cambodia, you know I haven’t been there, personally, but I, but I have collected many, many books and resources on these things.

00:28:00.360 –> 00:28:15.300 But even looked at pre Columbian South American very interested in in architectural motifs and I look at a lot of my pot architecturally I feel like I feel like it’s it’s almost like a.

00:28:16.530 –> 00:28:18.390 Like a dwelling like a structure.

00:28:19.530 –> 00:28:38.160 Caden Painter: When I make it i’m thinking in those terms of a foundation of walls of a crown or or eve of the piece yeah that’s just kind of the way I look at it, so my personal inspirations come literally from from all over the world, now I will tell you.

00:28:39.570 –> 00:28:56.280 Joseph McElroy: The reason that I think pottery is so resonant with people is because it is a piece of personal functional art most crafts gills craft show organizers even gallery owners will tell you.

00:28:56.670 –> 00:29:15.450 Joseph McElroy: The two things that make the craft world go around pottery in jewelry hmm those are always the two biggest sellers the items that are your typical craft fair both of those are personal art.

00:29:16.860 –> 00:29:32.880 it’s not it’s not our that’s on a law somewhere for public viewing it’s art that you use personally you wear that piece of jewelry you you hold that mug you cradle that mug in your hand and I think that speaks to people on a level.

00:29:34.350 –> 00:29:36.000 That that.

00:29:37.080 –> 00:29:49.500 Joseph McElroy: that’s hard to achieve in other art forms cool well when we come back we’ll talk more about your specific the details of your work and some of the kinds of things that you may.

00:29:51.810 –> 00:29:52.350 Okay, great.

00:29:53.610 –> 00:29:55.410 Caden Painter: Talk radio nyc.

00:32:39.480 –> 00:32:57.780 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin McElroy back with a gateway to the smokies podcasts, then I guess Terry painter and the sun kayden painter both master craftsman and Potters and Maggie valley North Carolina and they have a they have a wonderful shop called the different drummer.

00:32:59.460 –> 00:33:02.340 Joseph McElroy: Not right near my place and then Lord motel and Maggie Valley.

00:33:03.540 –> 00:33:18.810 Joseph McElroy: So Terry and why don’t you talk about some of the things you make you got a lot of beautiful things in the background, there, what kind of a what kind of things do you make yeah we’re we’re set up in one of our showrooms here to studio.

00:33:20.040 –> 00:33:34.500 And we we cover a pretty wide gamut of the things that we make, I do have a love for functional pottery, and so we we make a lot of straight ahead functional work.

00:33:35.850 –> 00:33:44.160 We we do a lot of dinner where there’s a whole wall over here covered with dinner plates and bowls and salad plates and.

00:33:44.910 –> 00:33:51.210 So that’s an important part of what we do, but you know I backed into this from a fine art background.

00:33:51.690 –> 00:34:03.600 So I couldn’t leave my landscapes behind when I left painting behind I had to find a way to keep expressing the landscapes, and so we have a series of.

00:34:04.500 –> 00:34:17.820 tile wall hangings and covered jars that that have Bob relief landscapes on them, the landscape of course i’m taking inspiration from the surrounding area, the smokies where we are.

00:34:18.240 –> 00:34:27.330 Almost all of them are tree oriented love trees of all kinds, and you know we have many, many, many kinds of trees here in the smokies to draw.

00:34:29.970 –> 00:34:50.970 Joseph McElroy: Do you draw those the do draw those designs yourself before you put on them, are you taking traditional emblems or anything like that, no, no it’s all 100% original, I will start with a pencil drawing very frequently converted into a pen and a drawing to flesh out the design and then.

00:34:53.580 –> 00:35:01.170 Joseph McElroy: We will convert it into a Barber leaf sculpture yeah i’m looking here in the steps.

00:35:02.460 –> 00:35:20.550 Joseph McElroy: what’s that many steps yeah everything yeah I don’t know I like process, you know I like I like a lot of steps to things and this really this really satisfies that because there’s there’s many, many steps you have to go through to bring one of these pieces off very involved.

00:35:21.780 –> 00:35:35.160 Joseph McElroy: So I see on your side that you know I saw I saw things like a cutout tree GEO landscape and hardwood tree inlay landscape so you’re you’re you are extending their skills into other areas besides just pottery.

00:35:37.350 –> 00:35:38.220 yeah we are.

00:35:39.630 –> 00:35:45.960 Joseph McElroy: One of the things i’ve discovered, you know I spent most of my career working in solitude here at the shop.

00:35:46.500 –> 00:35:57.660 Joseph McElroy: And there are advantages to that there are disadvantages to it, since cade came on board the collaboration between the two of us has created some new.

00:35:58.470 –> 00:36:09.630 Joseph McElroy: directions for us it’s really, really nice to have another creative person typically someone you’re on the same wavelength with yeah here in the studio to make and bounce ideas off of each other and.

00:36:10.320 –> 00:36:21.690 Joseph McElroy: We have a line, in particular, a lot of drums that we’re producing hand drums it’s a stoneware base but we’re doing a laminated wood.

00:36:22.290 –> 00:36:41.640 Joseph McElroy: mahogany or birch top to the drums and then we’re taking our pin and eat drawings and using a laser to burn so so we’re real 21st century there were using a cnc laser to burn our drawings into the top, this is one right over my shoulder.

00:36:42.750 –> 00:36:43.230 So this.

00:36:44.250 –> 00:36:52.230 Joseph McElroy: idea of one of the cotton drones were there, and you say you were inspired by some Brazilian drums you but you made some right.

00:36:53.580 –> 00:36:55.710 yeah yeah tell me about yeah we.

00:36:57.090 –> 00:36:57.810 got a visitor.

00:36:59.010 –> 00:36:59.790 From our dog.

00:37:04.620 –> 00:37:07.980 had to come check out what was going on here, let me go put her back, but.

00:37:10.470 –> 00:37:10.710 Caden Painter: yeah.

00:37:11.760 –> 00:37:12.210 Joseph McElroy: there.

00:37:13.320 –> 00:37:17.280 Caden Painter: Were yeah we always have to have a pottery shop dog, you know.

00:37:18.450 –> 00:37:25.080 Joseph McElroy: Not the same without a without a dog oh that’s kind of interesting they’re sort of bounding around right.

00:37:26.700 –> 00:37:34.950 Joseph McElroy: yeah you know say we’ve we’ve had a series of dogs here in the shop over the years, and you know they.

00:37:35.400 –> 00:37:44.430 Joseph McElroy: don’t know they understand they work really well around around the pottery so we don’t have any trouble Oh, I thought that might be a test if it can withstand a dog can withstand the thirst.

00:37:47.280 –> 00:37:57.600 Joseph McElroy: yeah you’re going to tell about the home oh yeah yeah yeah so we’re both musicians and we play a variety of instruments would, of course.

00:37:58.170 –> 00:38:10.080 Joseph McElroy: What we’ve always enjoyed is to come home and so Brazilian box drawing the wouldn’t face on it is just it’s a really great tactile experience.

00:38:10.560 –> 00:38:21.060 Joseph McElroy: And, and so that was definitely something that was important to us, we when we were thinking and planning, you know how’s this going to look how’s it going to feel what’s it going to look like.

00:38:22.500 –> 00:38:22.980 We.

00:38:24.540 –> 00:38:32.160 Of course, the sound is very important to us, but also the tactile experience was very important as well we wanted something that that felt good to play and so.

00:38:33.300 –> 00:38:34.680 The kahan was was.

00:38:35.850 –> 00:38:46.200 Right up front for foremost in our our mind when we were thinking going on man, you know doing a wooden head like that would be would be really, really nice on.

00:38:48.990 –> 00:38:53.610 Joseph McElroy: But it’s fabulous you know my I was telling you that my wife is a Brazilian percussionist.

00:38:55.440 –> 00:38:59.760 Joseph McElroy: she’s she’s actually a member of a 70 or 70 women band.

00:39:00.780 –> 00:39:03.360 Joseph McElroy: that’s actually a worldwide band called box.

00:39:05.940 –> 00:39:07.380 Joseph McElroy: One to call back to La.

00:39:08.760 –> 00:39:25.470 Joseph McElroy: And she is she’s the one of the elite members and so there’s a 10 Member group and she’s gotten to do things like you know play Brazilian drums on Saturday night live open for the Rolling Stones that so we’re gonna come by check out your drums they look fabulous they look like collectors.

00:39:26.580 –> 00:39:34.740 Joseph McElroy: We also we’re also hosting at the middle Arc a monthly drum circle when it’s when it’s more right a lot of people coming from asheville you might.

00:39:35.430 –> 00:39:51.510 Joseph McElroy: You might stop over there it’d be great I love these these look that they play they said they play well right yeah yeah yeah yeah it’s kind of cool you know you never you don’t think of drums have been part of pottery, but these are these are.

00:39:52.740 –> 00:39:53.130 Joseph McElroy: yeah.

00:39:53.190 –> 00:39:57.570 Caden Painter: Let me throw one thing out there, of course, the shop is called the different drummer.

00:39:57.810 –> 00:40:10.110 Joseph McElroy: yeah I know that yeah for the last few years we’ve had a lot of people come in the door and see the drums and say okay now I see where the name comes from, no, no, no, that the main came like.

00:40:10.740 –> 00:40:21.960 Caden Painter: 38 years before the drums the name is philosophical and in Ted it comes from the passage by Henry David thoreau and Walden.

00:40:22.410 –> 00:40:31.770 Joseph McElroy: yeah beat of a different drummer and so back when I was leaving engineering behind and all my high school friends were becoming doctors, lawyers, engineers.

00:40:32.190 –> 00:40:46.800 Joseph McElroy: And I was becoming a potter well Henry David thoreau and helped me feel a little bit better about the path, I was on so that’s why the shop is you know, I was, I was working a full time job was on the fast track that IBM and I had that experience to.

00:40:47.880 –> 00:41:05.970 Joseph McElroy: So I get it, I just walked out yeah so I started a different path so what you know what Terrence What would you say, are the major you know you’ve mentioned a bunch of worldwide influence and things are there, specific people specific specific styles that have influenced your pottery.

00:41:07.980 –> 00:41:16.230 um yeah there was a there was a connection made again I guess it was back in the.

00:41:17.340 –> 00:41:22.680 1950s and 60s a potter in England called Bernard leach.

00:41:24.000 –> 00:41:46.200 made a connection with a Japanese potter and I really don’t know the correct pronunciation of his name Sochi hamada or hamada i’m not sure how his name is pronounced, but they together kind of revived the crafts or studio pottery movement in England.

00:41:47.340 –> 00:42:06.330 Joseph McElroy: hmm and in Japan as well posting those rules yeah rah rah right post war yeah Japan they helped to revive that tradition there as well, and a lot of people, a lot of Americans apprentice with Bernard leach and.

00:42:08.010 –> 00:42:17.490 A professor of one of my professors actually studied in England was leech and I became very, very influenced by.

00:42:19.320 –> 00:42:24.870 Caden Painter: The Asian techniques of making pottery so so that the techniques that we employ here.

00:42:26.430 –> 00:42:38.610 are not even really mainstream European they are Asian pottery forming techniques and it’s a little different it’s a little looser little more relaxed.

00:42:39.630 –> 00:42:48.510 Joseph McElroy: than than like the northern European style of, and this is i’m talking about working on a potter’s wheel style of throwing.

00:42:49.320 –> 00:43:09.510 Joseph McElroy: So that lends itself very well to the other organic designs and features that the trees and things that we take inspiration from from our surrounding and you know apply and incorporating into the pot that I think those those two approaches go really well together, plus.

00:43:10.740 –> 00:43:29.460 Joseph McElroy: they’re the Asian approach to the potter’s wheel I find to be very musical and it’s very much like playing a musical instrument, I find it to be internally kind of the same thing.

00:43:30.360 –> 00:43:39.780 Joseph McElroy: At least a very similar now my hands are doing different things when i’m throwing a pot versus playing a guitar or a drum but.

00:43:40.260 –> 00:43:46.350 Joseph McElroy: The the gears that are turning inside your head, I think, are about the same cool.

00:43:47.100 –> 00:43:59.220 Joseph McElroy: All right, well, we would we gotta go to break when we come back we’ll finish up with a little bit more about what inspires you and then how people find more information and find things to look at it Pottering the carolinas.

00:44:00.270 –> 00:44:00.600 Great.

00:44:02.490 –> 00:44:04.020 Talk radio and my.

00:44:06.210 –> 00:44:07.110 Key in.

00:46:17.490 –> 00:46:24.630 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin McElroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcast my guest Terry.

00:46:25.290 –> 00:46:42.600 Joseph McElroy: Terry painter and the sun kayden painter of the different drummer pottery and Maggie valley North Carolina so Tara you and your wife wife wrote a book called centered inspiration from the hands of a potter what was the inspiration for that and what’s it about well.

00:46:43.020 –> 00:46:43.560 yeah.

00:46:45.150 –> 00:46:46.290 I have a.

00:46:47.370 –> 00:47:04.710 Talk that idea of a a spiritual inspirational talk that I gave with my potter’s wheel began as many, many years ago and that just kind of grew organically I don’t know, I was invited.

00:47:06.000 –> 00:47:08.790 Actually, to illustrate a.

00:47:10.500 –> 00:47:18.810 Our pastors message at our church with the potter’s wheel, and one thing led to another, and before long, I was, I was illustrating my own.

00:47:19.500 –> 00:47:37.380 talk with the potter’s wheel and people wanted something tangible that they could take away from that so at that time my wife had been a professional photographer for many years and we thought this was something that we could do completely in house and she did all the photography.

00:47:39.180 –> 00:47:52.770 For this thing and we basically what’s funny is when I sat down and tried to ride out what what I said i’d completely what I said, and one of the.

00:47:54.090 –> 00:47:59.190 Joseph McElroy: Blank so we had to contact some places where I had spoken before.

00:47:59.190 –> 00:48:01.470 Caden Painter: and get tapes from.

00:48:03.000 –> 00:48:22.560 So different you know, being in from an audience having that feedback the the atmosphere and everything it was all different, and I found out that I did it different every time it was just very off the cuff and spontaneous so we kind of tried to take the best of.

00:48:23.850 –> 00:48:41.220 Joseph McElroy: Several talks that I had given and condense it down into a book and I need to photographed it and yeah it’s something that we self published, we have copies available here in the shop, so I found that I believe I found I found a link an Amazon link for it on on Amazon.

00:48:41.610 –> 00:48:42.960 Joseph McElroy: So I.

00:48:43.890 –> 00:48:53.520 Joseph McElroy: was good, so I put the link up on our website so if people want to find the get that book, I recommend going to the website and getting that link and go buy that book.

00:48:55.140 –> 00:49:00.150 Joseph McElroy: So, so do you find there’s something spiritual about making pottery.

00:49:01.260 –> 00:49:03.600 Joseph McElroy: and your approach well you do yeah.

00:49:04.710 –> 00:49:12.240 yeah certainly meditative if, if nothing else, we laugh about it a lot because.

00:49:13.980 –> 00:49:27.330 Often, often I will have people come in the shop and they say oh you’re so you’re so lucky, you know I just love to bake pottery and you get to make pottery every day and relax, it must be so relaxing.

00:49:28.380 –> 00:49:29.520 Joseph McElroy: I always tell them.

00:49:30.390 –> 00:49:33.750 Joseph McElroy: Try paying your mortgage little balls play.

00:49:34.620 –> 00:49:37.710 Caden Painter: making things out of it see how relaxing that is so.

00:49:37.800 –> 00:49:58.620 Joseph McElroy: yeah I will say i’ve been doing this soon will be 41 years full time and I still look forward to coming to work every single day it’s the kind of proceed that I would never stop it was something I would never retire from so long as i’m able.

00:49:59.700 –> 00:50:05.040 Joseph McElroy: To keep looks good I mean you know I I was you know it’s interesting to me about how much.

00:50:05.460 –> 00:50:15.540 Joseph McElroy: You know practicality and spirituality go into making art it’s always a question I you know i’ve done a little heart in my in my time and i’m actually in a museum for some some some work.

00:50:15.990 –> 00:50:24.180 Joseph McElroy: yeah so in my studies of it, you know it was funny I saw a quote, I think it was Henry Mathias his son and so who’s been to a lot of events with his father.

00:50:24.390 –> 00:50:34.800 Joseph McElroy: You know, and things like that and people mash them once or you know what’s it like when all those poets and artists to get together, he said, we know the funny thing is when artists and poets get together at all, they talk about is money.

00:50:40.470 –> 00:50:41.280 Joseph McElroy: So.

00:50:42.390 –> 00:50:57.840 Joseph McElroy: A lot though yeah yeah we we also we’ve talked a lot about how so much of what we make, is what we think it’s important for and, and this is one of the reasons why we make so many different things is.

00:50:58.920 –> 00:51:13.290 Joseph McElroy: We want to make things that are interesting to us yeah and and and pursue those ideas and passions and when when when something comes along that you lose sleep over.

00:51:15.630 –> 00:51:16.830 you chase that.

00:51:18.240 –> 00:51:20.880 Joseph McElroy: Well it’s uh yeah we we really have a.

00:51:22.860 –> 00:51:37.650 Joseph McElroy: Sorry, we really have a theory about about making things to sell to other people, that if we satisfy ourselves first if we make work that we genuinely like.

00:51:38.280 –> 00:51:42.780 Joseph McElroy: That there’s a percentage of the population out there that’s going to be on the same wavelength.

00:51:43.590 –> 00:51:59.190 Joseph McElroy: That we’re on and that work will speak to them as it speaks to us so so we don’t go off trying to chase other other paths we we make work that we like and just speaks.

00:52:00.030 –> 00:52:13.530 Joseph McElroy: It speaks to us, we have well it’s a it’s a gift it’s a gift in life to have that happen so is there a besides your place which is Maggie Valley, and I think you can find out about a different drummer pottery calm right.

00:52:15.000 –> 00:52:24.360 Joseph McElroy: Is there other pottery places you recommend people to visit in the mountains, a couple you know, two or three we only have a couple minutes but yeah ah yeah my devers.

00:52:25.410 –> 00:52:26.100 Over.

00:52:27.720 –> 00:52:34.050 Caden Painter: balsam gap there on the other side of the balsam range from my shop.

00:52:34.620 –> 00:52:36.930 Joseph McElroy: My dad was definitely worth checking out.

00:52:37.980 –> 00:52:38.850 And then.

00:52:40.620 –> 00:52:43.950 The River would shops over in hillsboro.

00:52:47.010 –> 00:52:52.410 A couple of long time good potter’s there in hillsborough and then, of course.

00:52:53.520 –> 00:52:57.510 A lot potter’s that I know are now in the River arts district.

00:52:58.800 –> 00:53:00.120 Over in asheville.

00:53:01.980 –> 00:53:07.710 Joseph McElroy: A lot of people, a lot of people who used to be kind of out in the country, somewhere, have now.

00:53:08.820 –> 00:53:17.610 Joseph McElroy: moved their studios to the River arts district for for that exposure, so any other shout out you want to make a name for social media, you want to mention anything.

00:53:18.630 –> 00:53:29.130 yeah so you mentioned the different drummer pottery.com also crop drum.com that will take you it’s a sub page of different term pottery.

00:53:29.400 –> 00:53:39.060 But it’s specific to the drums and we have DEMO videos and some tutorials for our personal playing style that we that we’ve come up with.

00:53:39.990 –> 00:53:57.240 As well as follow us on Facebook and instagram the different underscore drummer underscore pottery and we often make updates there anything we’re working on anything new we’re going to talk about it there first and.

00:53:58.770 –> 00:54:13.590 And if a new firing is out, what will we always announce whenever a new work is out there yeah we fired the kill about every three to four weeks so we want to get the message out when there’s a new batch of pots.

00:54:15.300 –> 00:54:25.500 Joseph McElroy: Well, thank you very much for being on my show and be sure to let us know we’ll we’ll put you out there every time we get a chance, and I will promote it as if even out there.

00:54:25.890 –> 00:54:32.250 Joseph McElroy: You know, everybody that’s listening, you can go to gateway to the smokies dot fun to find out more about this podcast.

00:54:32.610 –> 00:54:45.480 Joseph McElroy: I have some links up there, I got the like I said I have terry’s book up, there are a couple other books related to the show about the original a woman that founded the southern appalachian Guild.

00:54:46.920 –> 00:54:59.580 Joseph McElroy: And now I you know, we want to I want you to imagine something imagine a place evocative evocative of motor cortex of the past, the modern and vibrant within seek appalachian feel.

00:55:00.000 –> 00:55:06.360 Joseph McElroy: a place for adventure and for relaxation imagine a place where you can fish in a mountain heritage trout stream.

00:55:06.720 –> 00:55:15.960 Joseph McElroy: grill the catch on the fire and need accompanied by fine wind or craft beers imagine a place of the old time music and world cultural sounds.

00:55:16.260 –> 00:55:25.380 Joseph McElroy: There is no other place like the metal art motel in Maggie valley North Carolina nestled in the great smoky mountains National Park Area.

00:55:25.920 –> 00:55:40.140 Joseph McElroy: We are the starting point for all your adventures, in fact, your smoky adventure mountain adventure starts with where you stay the middle earth motel so I want you to remember that take away, if nothing else, no i’m kidding.

00:55:42.570 –> 00:55:53.040 Joseph McElroy: i’m really promoting the gate with the smokies is a place to come and I actually have a site called smokies adventure that’s plural smokies is adventure calm.

00:55:53.430 –> 00:56:01.950 Joseph McElroy: which is dedicated to publishing all sorts of information and listings about the smokies and that’s both Western North Carolina East Tennessee.

00:56:02.280 –> 00:56:08.730 Joseph McElroy: We have an emphasis on outdoor recreation outdoor life cultural events you know, crafts arts.

00:56:09.510 –> 00:56:21.990 Joseph McElroy: weddings adventures, and then we provide information about lodging and entertainment and events and conventions and honeymoons and things like that, and the goal is to become the leading information portal for the smoky mountains.

00:56:23.280 –> 00:56:30.570 Joseph McElroy: We also have a Facebook page, you can get to a Facebook COM slash gateway to the smokies podcast.

00:56:31.680 –> 00:56:41.640 Joseph McElroy: i’m also a part of the where traveler network, we have a we have a hub they’re called great smoky mountains, where travelers and a two year old magazine here.

00:56:42.090 –> 00:56:48.480 Joseph McElroy: And we’re very proud to be on there, and I want to mention that we’re on talk radio dot nyc.

00:56:49.260 –> 00:57:00.660 Joseph McElroy: pod podcasts live podcast station, with many programs on here, I recommend you sticking around and listening to them they’re great shows there’s one after this about New York.

00:57:01.230 –> 00:57:11.790 Joseph McElroy: Visiting New York so stick around and listen to that one I appreciate it’s been a great guy a great podcast Thank you guys and see it and see you next time can listen to us next week.