Gateway to the Smokies

Our guest in this episode is William Ritter he is a musician, farmer, western North Carolina native, and lover of southern Appalachia. He holds an MA in Appalachian Studies from Appalachian State University, and he’s been saving seeds for a long time. They will be talking about heirloom seeds and growing traditional foods and agriculture's relationship to traditional music.‍

Tune in for this fun conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.

Before introducing today’s guest, Joseph discusses heirloom seeds and plants in his family. Joseph reads a poem about memories tied to seeds. Joseph introduces William Ritter, today’s guest, and William talks a little about his background. William discusses how the mountains feel like home to him. William describes seed saving and how it started.

Joseph talks about his interest in music and asks William where his interest stemmed from. William discusses how he built and learned to play the fiddle, comparing the traditions of old-time music to seed saving. Joseph and William talk about farmers' markets in the Smokies where heirloom vegetables can be found.

William discusses the types and properties of heirloom vegetables, from candy roasters to beans to tomatoes, etc. As someone who doesn't cook much, William knows many restaurants that serve dishes with heirloom vegetables. William goes on to describe how to make leather britches out of beans. Joseph and William discuss the wide variety of places where one can find heirloom seeds.

William describes a project he is working on, Song to Seeds. The project is about more than songs and seeds though, working to bring communities together and share traditions.

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00:00:37.980 –> 00:00:38.520 Joseph McElroy: howdy.

00:00:38.970 –> 00:00:43.170 Joseph McElroy: Thanks for joining us on this week’s episode of gateway to the smokies.

00:00:43.770 –> 00:00:50.070 Joseph McElroy: This podcast is about America’s most visited National Park, the great smoky mountains National Park.

00:00:50.430 –> 00:01:02.160 Joseph McElroy: and the surrounding town. this area’s filled with ancient natural beauty a deep-storied history and rich mountain cultures that we will explore with weekly episodes.

00:01:03.150 –> 00:01:17.610 Joseph McElroy: I am Joseph Franklin McElroy a man of the world, but also deep roots and these mountains My family has lived in the great smoky mountains, for over 200 years my business is in travel, but my heart is in culture.

00:01:18.390 –> 00:01:24.570 Joseph McElroy: Today we’re talking about seeds and sounds and heirloom agritourism in the smoky mountains.

00:01:24.960 –> 00:01:37.920 Joseph McElroy: With a dash of old-time music, I will introduce you to my guest’s scholar and farmer William Ritter, very soon, but first, I’m going to tell you a little bit of a story about my experience with seeds and heirloom.

00:01:38.310 –> 00:01:43.770 Joseph McElroy: Agriculture in the mountains and then maybe a little poetry So when I was growing up.

00:01:45.240 –> 00:01:56.910 Joseph McElroy: my grandparents had a farm in Ireland, which is a part of Haywood county it’s very rural, and then, and then it might end up is McElroy co which is my family’s lived in for a little while.

00:01:58.470 –> 00:02:05.370 Joseph McElroy: And then, and then they lived in a farmhouse it was just a plain old farmhouse nothing particularly fancy but it raised a bunch of kids.

00:02:07.020 –> 00:02:15.960 Joseph McElroy: But they, but they did have a nice running creek in the front yard and then and then around that creek and the front of your old place where these beautiful orange irises.

00:02:16.800 –> 00:02:24.720 Joseph McElroy: Now I remember seeing those irises in the spring and they were just glorious and come to find out that my grandmother.

00:02:25.620 –> 00:02:37.110 Joseph McElroy: told me once that she’d got those bulbs from her from her family, where they’ve been around for a while my event and eventually told me in several years later, that those items have been growing our family land for over 100 years.

00:02:37.860 –> 00:02:48.360 Joseph McElroy: And, and then people you know different family members will just get a bunch of the bulbs, you know from wherever the original place was and then eventually in some of those new places.

00:02:48.720 –> 00:02:56.040 Joseph McElroy: And they would transfer those bulbs to their new land or their new house whatever and then let them grow there so.

00:02:57.090 –> 00:03:09.630 Joseph McElroy: These bulbs turn out to have been around, probably for over 100 years and at this point as well over 100 years because I’m talking about four years ago I don’t wanna I don’t want to mention my age, but it’s definitely been a while.

00:03:10.860 –> 00:03:18.570 Joseph McElroy: And so, when I got the family farm about 10 years ago were part of it, my my my brothers and sisters got the other part, and.

00:03:19.050 –> 00:03:36.480 Joseph McElroy: And, and I got this House on the land that I made into a into a vacation cabin because I go down a lot, and then I like to have I like to have my own place with me my wife at the time and I made sure to get some of those irises and put them on my yard there.

00:03:37.620 –> 00:03:44.670 Joseph McElroy: And so it was in the farm, it was in my own place on the farm and it was the iris is, I felt like a family tradition had been completed.

00:03:45.120 –> 00:03:57.870 Joseph McElroy: You know, it made me feel part of a long running community on a long tradition, you know I i’m living this life around the world, but you know I can’t I can’t leave behind.

00:03:58.230 –> 00:04:07.230 Joseph McElroy: That it’s it’s important right I think it’s important to have that sense of community, you know not only locally, but I think that we need to think about it on a.

00:04:07.860 –> 00:04:23.190 Joseph McElroy: National and global scale these these traditions in this these communities, we can’t always just be inventing the new we also got to be involved in the old, and I think that’s especially one of the beauties of rural life and the amount of life that sharing and communal living.

00:04:24.420 –> 00:04:35.160 Joseph McElroy: we’re going to get into talking into seeds and my guests are going to tell us a lot about it, but I remember set of seeds to from my growing up for that were called their candy roasters seeds.

00:04:35.880 –> 00:04:43.920 Joseph McElroy: Right now candy roasters are these great big squash now, some of them are really long and orange and some of them are like more round and.

00:04:44.280 –> 00:04:56.910 Joseph McElroy: And and green but I mean, some of them are the size of you know, a pig I mean they get big and they grow very they’re very sweet and they grow mostly I think in the mountains.

00:04:57.300 –> 00:05:04.590 Joseph McElroy: And oftentimes we will use them instead of pumpkins and pies and breads and such.

00:05:04.950 –> 00:05:19.410 Joseph McElroy: And there’s a lot of varieties I think there’s like over 40 varieties and people pass down the seeds of their favorite variety, like their family heirlooms and I also got some of those and planted them on my farm and I, for a number of years I grew grew.

00:05:20.580 –> 00:05:22.050 Joseph McElroy: Those Kenny Rogers now.

00:05:23.250 –> 00:05:35.970 Joseph McElroy: One of the tragedies in my life is my my wife died, my second wife died and I sort of lost interest in things for a little bit and I lost those seeds all right and that’s one of the you know, one of the sorrows of my.

00:05:36.720 –> 00:05:48.630 Joseph McElroy: You know communal living is I ended a tradition so i’m gonna be talking to William here soon and see if I can get me some new of candy roaster seeds, so I can reinvent the tradition, because now i’ve got two year old kids.

00:05:49.140 –> 00:06:00.600 Joseph McElroy: And I am really looking forward to teaching them about these traditions, and I think they loved or the prance around in a candy roaster from patch and find pumpkins and you know find squash bigger than they are.

00:06:02.640 –> 00:06:09.270 Joseph McElroy: Right and and you know and i’ve done poetry a few times on this on this this.

00:06:09.810 –> 00:06:28.080 Joseph McElroy: This show, and you know telling the stories makes me a little bit wispy and I like to you know deal with emotions and poetry, so I found this this this poem called the stack behind the barn by Sir Charles George Douglas Roberts I would love to have for first names is my name.

00:06:30.510 –> 00:06:40.200 Joseph McElroy: But he is a Canadian potent died in 43 and he did I don’t think he was ever in the smokies but it speaks to.

00:06:41.550 –> 00:06:55.470 Joseph McElroy: September, is here with the ripen the seeds and homely smell of the autumn weeds my heart goes back to the finished day and i’m again a boy at play in the stack behind the barn.

00:06:56.700 –> 00:07:11.130 Joseph McElroy: Dear memory of the old home farm the hedge rows fencing the crops from harm the cows too heavy with milk for haste, the yard barnyard yellow with the harvest waste and the stack behind the barn.

00:07:12.240 –> 00:07:28.200 Joseph McElroy: dear dear dear the old garden smell sweet million flocks that I love so well and the seating mint and the sage turn Gray, the deer the smell of the tumbled hey in the stack behind the barn.

00:07:29.610 –> 00:07:43.620 Joseph McElroy: In the side of the stack we made our nest and there was the playhouse we love the best a thicket of golden rod bending and bright fill this with glory and hid for us from site in the set stack behind the barn.

00:07:44.640 –> 00:07:58.860 Joseph McElroy: Then, when the stack with a year ran low and our frosty morning cheeks were a glow when time and forgotten the dropping leaves what joy to drop from the barns wide eve’s to the stack behind the barn.

00:08:00.000 –> 00:08:19.230 Joseph McElroy: Oh childhood years your heedless feet have slipped away with how much that sweet dreams and memory master you to the make believe lot make believe of life is through I still may play as the children do in the stack behind the barn.

00:08:22.830 –> 00:08:27.300 Joseph McElroy: So, especially my position in life that’s really you know.

00:08:28.200 –> 00:08:39.450 Joseph McElroy: Great i’m you know it’s a it spoke to me so William is a i’m here is an old time fiddler and a seed saver from baker Seville North Carolina.

00:08:39.870 –> 00:08:47.850 Joseph McElroy: is spent most of his adult life studying and sharing appalachian culture last year he loves the song the seed project which curates.

00:08:48.210 –> 00:08:58.830 Joseph McElroy: Educational programs that combined old time music stories without telling seed saving another sample of southern appalachian traditions now i’ve had conversations with William.

00:08:59.190 –> 00:09:12.030 Joseph McElroy: And you know, I was expecting this older guy and he’s a young guy but he’s got an old soul and lots of information, and I really wanted to have him on the show so William first thing you have a master’s degree.

00:09:12.390 –> 00:09:14.640 Joseph McElroy: and probably got a few places.

00:09:15.030 –> 00:09:20.910 Joseph McElroy: So tell me why is the mountain so attractive for you build your career there and your life.

00:09:21.360 –> 00:09:25.980 William Ritter: Well, first of all i’m still gathering myself, because that poem really hit me hard.

00:09:30.270 –> 00:09:30.780 Joseph McElroy: To make it.

00:09:32.310 –> 00:09:32.880 Joseph McElroy: As well as.

00:09:32.940 –> 00:09:36.240 William Ritter: Intellectual yeah so I wasn’t prepared I wasn’t prepared.

00:09:36.270 –> 00:09:44.670 William Ritter: For that that was beautiful um yeah so I I grew up in Mitchell county bakers hill North Carolina and.

00:09:45.810 –> 00:09:52.380 William Ritter: I was born and raised in Mitchell county and I did Finally, you know go off for college at Western.

00:09:53.550 –> 00:10:06.000 William Ritter: I got a theater degree there and and then I went to upstate and that’s where I got my degree in appalachian studies, with a an emphasis on roots music.

00:10:07.650 –> 00:10:16.350 William Ritter: I i’ve never been able to go very far from the mountains honestly it’s very, very hard for me, even as a kid we would go to the beach.

00:10:17.220 –> 00:10:30.300 William Ritter: or or go on a mean really want family vacation so much, but my my parents are glass artists and so they would have shows that they had that when they go to and sometimes it takes us along and that kind of counted as the family, they.

00:10:31.710 –> 00:10:42.150 William Ritter: But I never you know anyone, I think this really either lived in the mountains long time or is from the mountains can relate to that feeling of like when you’re in a very flat.

00:10:42.810 –> 00:10:52.440 William Ritter: plane and you’re going along and all sudden in the distance she says blue mountains and you’re like Ah yes, yes i’m home oh i’m back, I feel like we’re a.

00:10:53.010 –> 00:11:04.650 William Ritter: Or, I need to be at least that’s how I would feel for me and sometimes it wasn’t even close we were like hours and hours and hours away from Mitchell county but you know we were in the mountain it really it really felt like home.

00:11:05.610 –> 00:11:22.110 Joseph McElroy: Or, or you know I get it, I I know my business with technology which is big when I was coming out of college and then and then marketing and all those you know, nowadays, you can be anywhere but then you have to be in the city is really to make a big living out of it right so.

00:11:22.170 –> 00:11:22.620 William Ritter: Right.

00:11:22.680 –> 00:11:23.280 William Ritter: And I did.

00:11:23.400 –> 00:11:40.710 William Ritter: live in Winston Salem for a few years, which I met some wonderful folks there and I could see I could see a mountain from my part, which was like a godsend for me, but, but that was that was a little even the foothills were a little little far out of the mountains for me.

00:11:41.490 –> 00:11:54.600 Joseph McElroy: So you know we’re going to talk about seed saving and I think i’m some fundamental level, we all know what seed saving is but can you give us a bigger picture of what’s seed saving isn’t isn’t it sort of a big cultural part of a cultural mix now and.

00:11:54.600 –> 00:12:13.680 William Ritter: Say yeah, so there is like this, a modern kind of phenomena of people really getting into seed saving which a lot of that really developed came into I think everyone’s kind of the popular conscience with the use of GMOs and that you know kind of scared a lot of people.

00:12:14.910 –> 00:12:25.650 William Ritter: To the point that that they decided they want in control of their own seed supply, which I totally totally get that’s not really how I got into it, but that’s the big part I think of what.

00:12:25.980 –> 00:12:33.810 William Ritter: created that but then there also was the DIY movement, I think the do it yourself movement that really combined with with that.

00:12:34.230 –> 00:12:42.060 William Ritter: Those and and that a lot of people wanted to have their own little garden there, so you start to see more urban gardening more rooftop gardening and that all kind of came together.

00:12:43.710 –> 00:12:45.330 William Ritter: I think, to really encourage people to.

00:12:46.350 –> 00:12:50.220 William Ritter: be in control of their own own seed sources is.

00:12:52.620 –> 00:13:00.540 William Ritter: You know, really there’s a very few companies in the world that own a lot of the seeds so that’s certainly a concern, and if you were paying you know if you.

00:13:01.530 –> 00:13:08.700 William Ritter: Think about that every family had maybe their own heirloom and most communities had certain heirlooms that were in other places.

00:13:09.360 –> 00:13:20.250 William Ritter: If you think about how maybe we had 95% of people were farmers 100 years ago fast forward to today 5% of people are so our farmers, so you can just see how naturally.

00:13:21.030 –> 00:13:29.310 William Ritter: Those all those different airlines and just drop off the mass so he’s precipitously lost all the so many airlines, I mean just they’ve.

00:13:30.210 –> 00:13:38.220 William Ritter: gone by the wayside, honestly, for me, though I think of seed saving as as a Community act.

00:13:38.820 –> 00:13:51.480 William Ritter: So it’s not just something where you’re taking the seeds you grow your tomato plant from a seed and then you got your tomato and you cut it open and you keep the season you dry them out in the plan for next year, that is, seed saving but.

00:13:52.200 –> 00:14:02.700 William Ritter: The way that i’m looking at it it’s kind of like the older older kind of seed saving the real heirlooms in capital H kind of a way you know know seed catalog or anything, not that i’m against those but.

00:14:03.150 –> 00:14:06.630 William Ritter: that a person would go to their neighbor or.

00:14:07.080 –> 00:14:18.930 William Ritter: Something the Community, and they would exchange them with warm hands, as we say so that was like person to person and that’s a real Community act, I mean you can tell, and you can see that still a lot of appalachian heirlooms they’ll it’ll be like.

00:14:20.310 –> 00:14:26.340 William Ritter: they’ll have a person’s name in them of the variety don’t just call it candy roast your seeds.

00:14:26.490 –> 00:14:29.040 William Ritter: They might call that like uncle jimmy’s candy roaster.

00:14:29.400 –> 00:14:31.710 William Ritter: And so it really underscores.

00:14:32.010 –> 00:14:40.710 Joseph McElroy: That okay cool well when we come back we’re gonna talk more about what sparked your interest in old time music and seed saving.

00:17:41.220 –> 00:17:51.360 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin mcilroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcasts and my guest William richer, so I.

00:17:52.560 –> 00:18:00.030 Joseph McElroy: I grew up you know, in a strong musical tradition around me in the haywood county and.

00:18:01.260 –> 00:18:03.840 Joseph McElroy: At the time we lived in Jonathan creek.

00:18:05.190 –> 00:18:14.040 Joseph McElroy: And you know I got interested in one brief period and learning banjo and other things, and like to start me out.

00:18:14.730 –> 00:18:23.160 Joseph McElroy: I wanted to Dan banjo but my dad got started wanting to start me simpler, I think, of whatever he got me a guitar right and instead of lessons.

00:18:23.790 –> 00:18:34.530 Joseph McElroy: To go with some local well known teacher, I can’t remember the name, right now, but loser, you know played all sorts of instruments and focus in traditional mountain music.

00:18:35.010 –> 00:18:44.670 Joseph McElroy: And, and I had to go to school in the morning, carrying that guitar because I don’t know, right after school to the to the to the teacher who live near.

00:18:45.240 –> 00:18:49.500 Joseph McElroy: And, as I got to the car and was walking walking up the.

00:18:50.190 –> 00:19:06.360 Joseph McElroy: Steps there was a high steps for the school because it was rock hill school, which is a one world schoolhouse essentially it was like an old rock building these high steps like sort of bounded up them because it did it I fell I fell right on top of the guitar and crush the thing.

00:19:07.590 –> 00:19:13.770 Joseph McElroy: Right and all the kids around I was a sort of a chevy though kid had a real self conscious problem anyway.

00:19:14.220 –> 00:19:30.900 Joseph McElroy: I felt they all started, how would laughter and I turned red I started crying I you know I I just threw it away and I wouldn’t touch an instrument again for years, I really affect me that badly, so I missed my chance to get to to to.

00:19:31.470 –> 00:19:40.740 Joseph McElroy: to explore my interest in mountain music, so what sparked your interest in appalachian traditions, like old time music and seed saving.

00:19:41.580 –> 00:19:44.790 William Ritter: Well, well, I mean I gotta say first it’s never too.

00:19:44.850 –> 00:19:45.120 late.

00:19:47.790 –> 00:19:51.270 William Ritter: it’s never too late um but for me.

00:19:53.070 –> 00:20:00.570 William Ritter: I don’t know I think I was kind of surprised that I ended up picking up the fiddle and and other string instruments.

00:20:01.710 –> 00:20:11.040 William Ritter: You know i’d always been told that you pretty much needed to be born like with a fiddle in your hands like you’d never really amounted to anything if you didn’t start very young and that’s really not.

00:20:11.640 –> 00:20:19.800 William Ritter: Not necessarily true um so I didn’t really in earnest start playing the fiddle until I was in.

00:20:21.930 –> 00:20:23.820 William Ritter: High School kind of going on college.

00:20:25.980 –> 00:20:37.170 William Ritter: And I got this precocious idea that I would make my own fiddle because I was a handy type of person I grew up in a family of artists and we just made stuff when we needed it.

00:20:37.560 –> 00:20:56.460 William Ritter: So I didn’t think anything of it, I I, so I am I ordered some bits and parts and I kind of borrowed some tools, and so I started working on this, putting the spittle together in my in my dad who’s an artist, he said, you know you really need to talk to someone who knows what 30 who.

00:20:57.690 –> 00:21:03.690 William Ritter: can really show you there’s actually there’s this old man that you should go to meetings really interesting guy.

00:21:04.110 –> 00:21:15.450 William Ritter: And so I said all right all right, so I went up there and I met that’s where i’m at right del injure and rate past earlier this year, but he really just.

00:21:15.960 –> 00:21:24.660 William Ritter: He really guarded I mean in the beginning it was just me going, and he showed me how to make a little tool, or he showed me how to do a certain thing or he.

00:21:26.280 –> 00:21:40.080 William Ritter: He basically would just help me and all these different ways, and I remember when I brought my fiddle after i’d put it together there’s this particular part called a sound post that’s loose really in the fiddle it just held in by by tension barely and.

00:21:41.160 –> 00:21:51.960 William Ritter: That I was having a really hard time getting in there, because you put the film together and then you prop it up it’s it’s best thing best left to experts, but anyway, so I took it to him and he said it up and.

00:21:52.710 –> 00:22:03.300 William Ritter: He said he’ll never he never forget the the look in my face when he bowed across the strings and it it made us, you know it sounded like a fiddle maybe not a violin playing the fiddle.

00:22:04.500 –> 00:22:17.520 William Ritter: And so you know I just kept visiting Ray and I would help them a little something instruments, sometimes, and as I went to visit him more it was less about making fiddles or guitars and more about playing music, I mean he basically be like.

00:22:18.180 –> 00:22:28.080 William Ritter: To get the fiddle out and start playing, and you know I couldn’t play to save my life, but he would encourage me just non stop, and let me just make mistakes and I worked my way along and.

00:22:28.530 –> 00:22:40.200 William Ritter: he’d say, do you know how to play, you know certain tune, and I said never heard it before and helmet for me I go home and learn it, so I had this really I mean I didn’t even know but a really traditional way to learn to play.

00:22:41.820 –> 00:22:42.450 William Ritter: And I.

00:22:43.560 –> 00:22:53.670 William Ritter: You know kind of went out to the broader world and I started to meet other people that were like really interested in an old time music, but they didn’t really know any old timers.

00:22:53.970 –> 00:23:00.210 William Ritter: So that was kind of bizarre to me that they were like into the music, but they were listening to like recordings and I was.

00:23:01.530 –> 00:23:06.240 William Ritter: I was doing that, too, but I also felt like there was a big disconnect when they weren’t.

00:23:06.360 –> 00:23:08.940 Joseph McElroy: kind of there’s still a lot of old timers and.

00:23:09.330 –> 00:23:13.020 William Ritter: Learning and there were more than that was about 15 years ago.

00:23:14.070 –> 00:23:19.140 William Ritter: And, and so I was, and in fact someone did come up to me and it changed my life.

00:23:19.530 –> 00:23:27.150 William Ritter: She said, you know I think it’s a shame that you’re learning from recordings when there’s so many musicians around here, I was like oh my gosh you know my my head like I.

00:23:28.110 –> 00:23:41.220 William Ritter: know in and I realized when she said that that yeah I mean that’s what I had been doing with Ray but I needed to think about them seriously and then over time I realized, you know, there are songs I learned from Ray that I didn’t even like.

00:23:42.630 –> 00:23:51.270 William Ritter: But now they’re like they’re precious to me and I wouldn’t give them up for anything and I love them but it’s like a different relationship than just something you look like what’s cool.

00:23:51.510 –> 00:23:54.420 William Ritter: is like something you like, because of that human connection and.

00:23:55.050 –> 00:24:01.320 William Ritter: And I really just basically found the same thing with seeds, you know, like I didn’t even really like tomatoes that much when I started.

00:24:03.150 –> 00:24:03.630 William Ritter: Saving.

00:24:03.930 –> 00:24:10.590 William Ritter: that’s changed but also they’re just sweater tomatoes, then like what you get at a store like a hybrid tomato it’s just it’s just better I mean.

00:24:10.650 –> 00:24:16.020 Joseph McElroy: So you find you find the traditions of old time music and seed saving or are similar.

00:24:16.380 –> 00:24:20.700 William Ritter: Oh they’re incredibly similar I mean you know they’re handed down like.

00:24:21.240 –> 00:24:30.120 William Ritter: The hand first you know, usually with family members and a Community go to different communities, and they have different songs different seeds than other communities.

00:24:30.720 –> 00:24:45.360 William Ritter: And sometimes you’ll have all these songs that have the same name but in different communities different tune so it’s like you’d be like hey you know, a kitty push and then the other person yeah I know katie person you start to play and they’re not the same.

00:24:46.650 –> 00:24:54.060 William Ritter: But that happens with with seeds to you’ll you’ll you know you see a lot of seeds have the same name and they aren’t that’s not the same seed.

00:24:55.290 –> 00:25:00.150 William Ritter: So there’s really just there’s a lot in common, they go really, really well well together.

00:25:00.690 –> 00:25:04.440 Joseph McElroy: Oh wow well that’s cool do you um you know I had.

00:25:06.660 –> 00:25:11.280 Joseph McElroy: I was thinking, do you have a farm right, I have a farmer says like yeah.

00:25:11.460 –> 00:25:12.210 William Ritter: We farm.

00:25:12.870 –> 00:25:17.130 Joseph McElroy: Farm so you you do produce some heirloom crops right.

00:25:17.550 –> 00:25:25.110 William Ritter: i’m a little bit not so I mean mostly what I do is earned over into seeds and I eat it.

00:25:25.680 –> 00:25:34.980 William Ritter: The the plant itself, but some i’m and i’m also trying to transition out of what’s very natural for me is, if I have access, that I grew.

00:25:35.430 –> 00:25:45.690 William Ritter: To like give it to other people is like is ingrained in me in a way, I didn’t even realize until I started trying to sell you know some of the produce and and I really just wanted to give it to.

00:25:46.590 –> 00:25:48.480 William Ritter: me, I mean that’s what we always did we had a.

00:25:48.540 –> 00:25:57.450 William Ritter: Huge garden growing up, if you had more than you need it, you took it to neighbors and friends and arrows are likely to have it unless they had a garden too and they’re like Oh well, we’ll we’ll get this to.

00:25:58.170 –> 00:25:58.500 Oh.

00:25:59.670 –> 00:26:04.080 Joseph McElroy: So you’re trying to start selling a little bit though you’ve got a little bit.

00:26:04.110 –> 00:26:04.410 Joseph McElroy: I mean.

00:26:04.680 –> 00:26:08.400 William Ritter: A little bit still a big part of what i’m trying to do is is create.

00:26:09.420 –> 00:26:13.140 William Ritter: create these public events and.

00:26:13.410 –> 00:26:14.730 William Ritter: Educational events.

00:26:16.170 –> 00:26:18.690 William Ritter: That all got shot to you know to heck.

00:26:20.160 –> 00:26:23.970 Joseph McElroy: we’ll be bringing that back you can you can do those at the battle Arc motel, by the way.

00:26:24.330 –> 00:26:25.260 William Ritter: Oh yeah I.

00:26:25.290 –> 00:26:26.970 William Ritter: would love to yeah.

00:26:28.740 –> 00:26:39.150 Joseph McElroy: What so you know let’s let’s say for people out there, listening to this to find out where that what they how they can participate in this other than growing their own produce.

00:26:39.780 –> 00:26:53.160 Joseph McElroy: You know in in the mountains, you can go to farm stands and things like that to find heirloom prudent produce you know it’s a big thing I think mountains to you know, to go to that sort of thing what are some of the good places, you know.

00:26:53.700 –> 00:27:04.650 William Ritter: Well, well real quick um there are some great farmers markets in western North Carolina East Tennessee to, though not as familiar there but i’m Silva has a great farmers market.

00:27:05.430 –> 00:27:16.500 William Ritter: waynesville has a great farmers market at both of those just to say real quick i’ve seen beautiful heirlooms particularly candy roasters just some to die for candy roasters but all up and down North Carolina.

00:27:17.310 –> 00:27:24.480 William Ritter: Western Carolina towns of any size i’m have farmers markets and you’ll really find traditional heirloom vegetables there.

00:27:26.100 –> 00:27:30.300 William Ritter: So that’s that’s a great place to go almost every time every town has one or two.

00:27:30.960 –> 00:27:37.650 Joseph McElroy: yeah I think the you know the one in haywood county that’s one angel is a historic farmers markets been going on for a long time.

00:27:38.460 –> 00:27:38.880 William Ritter: Yes.

00:27:38.910 –> 00:27:57.090 Joseph McElroy: it’s a pretty classic one you know something else I mentioned, you know, since i’m yeah i’m talking about you know places I like I like barbers orchard orchard in their ways and they have a fruit stand them is just to die for, and they have heirloom apples right.

00:27:57.240 –> 00:28:10.830 Joseph McElroy: So yes, people definitely should look that up so when we come back we’ll talk about more more about the you know heirloom seeds and and all sorts of things to do in the mountains.

00:31:00.060 –> 00:31:09.090 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin mcilroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcast and my guest William Richard so William.

00:31:09.630 –> 00:31:18.300 Joseph McElroy: you’ve already named a few varieties of heirlooms but you know if someone goes to a protest and are farmers farmers market in the smokies what are they looking for.

00:31:19.290 –> 00:31:28.050 William Ritter: Okay, so we talked a little bit about candy register so that’s a big one, and like he’s mentioned, they can come and all different sorts of shapes and sizes.

00:31:29.460 –> 00:31:38.490 William Ritter: Often they’re pretty big it could be intimidatingly large like if you’re on vacation and you’re like i’m gonna make some pies you probably don’t need one the size of a coffee table.

00:31:38.880 –> 00:31:42.420 Joseph McElroy: If you look if you see something looks like a pod from those bodysnatchers.

00:31:42.420 –> 00:31:43.620 Joseph McElroy: you’re probably getting close.

00:31:44.820 –> 00:31:45.360 William Ritter: yeah.

00:31:46.800 –> 00:31:51.090 William Ritter: Oh, but, but essentially it’s a winter squash sometimes it look kind of like what’s called a banana squash.

00:31:51.690 –> 00:31:55.440 William Ritter: And, just to be clear, a winter squash is not grown in the winter unless you’re like in Florida.

00:31:56.160 –> 00:32:08.160 William Ritter: It just keeps really well it’ll it’ll hold over the winter, I actually had a candy roaster last like a year and a half once for went bad it was it started it wasn’t an experiment at first, but then it really turned into an experiment.

00:32:09.660 –> 00:32:21.060 William Ritter: But so so that’s one thing is the candy roasters that’s a big you know squash to be around in the fall, just like when people are put pumpkins out and there are some candy roasters that are shaped like a pumpkin.

00:32:21.810 –> 00:32:27.150 William Ritter: too, and so that’d be a just a thing, where you know me is that when you have any candy roasters or.

00:32:28.800 –> 00:32:36.780 William Ritter: And that So hopefully you find some there, but then in terms, beans one real good indicator of an heirloom being.

00:32:37.830 –> 00:32:47.760 William Ritter: Is that they’re really full So if you were to go get like a beans at the grocery store they’re like round, all the way around and thin mom and kind of look like.

00:32:48.090 –> 00:33:02.640 William Ritter: A stick or a cylinder well old timey beans were like big fat things i’m you you’d know Joseph but but they they have what what a big seed and then in there when they’re in the in the been we call them a bullet.

00:33:03.690 –> 00:33:11.280 William Ritter: Point of trivia but those beans, a real fat they look like they’re about to pop they’ve almost got such a big seed in it and.

00:33:12.150 –> 00:33:19.770 William Ritter: At that stage there’s a lot of flavor there’s a lot of nutrition, particularly so if you’re thinking about in the old days you’re trying to you know not.

00:33:20.490 –> 00:33:32.490 William Ritter: Your subsisting on cornbread and and grits and and make some kind of animal you know what kind of meat, you can come by that’s probably really heavily salted and smoked.

00:33:33.450 –> 00:33:37.650 William Ritter: And then their genes, but they’d have all this nutrition that’s not in.

00:33:38.400 –> 00:33:42.750 William Ritter: A modern grocery store of being it’s real thin that the seeds, not even developed it’s.

00:33:43.050 –> 00:33:53.610 William Ritter: Like a green thing and we should eat green things but it’s not as healthy for us, the big beans, but those my attorneys they get tough, so they can’t grow that big because he wouldn’t be able to eat them.

00:33:53.760 –> 00:34:01.590 William Ritter: Right so that’s that’s one thing to look for us as bigger beans and so there’s a lot of different kinds and there’s October beans and there’s also.

00:34:02.160 –> 00:34:13.380 William Ritter: Which are kind of in a late summer early fall they start coming on and they’re usually kind of speckled and then sometimes there’s so it’s called shelly beans and shelley’s are just.

00:34:14.070 –> 00:34:29.190 William Ritter: it’s like a bean seed that’s almost like so right, this is going to start drying to become dormant and it’s right before that’s like as big as the seeds going to get any they take that out of the pod and then you cook that and, like in a soup soup beams or whatever.

00:34:30.630 –> 00:34:42.090 William Ritter: You know it’s nothing like a any you’ve been you’ve ever had if you’ve not had shall always be cook those down there they’re so good, I think, someone like call them like mountain into mommy or something.

00:34:44.310 –> 00:34:50.040 William Ritter: But so that’s one thing to keep an eye out for and when it comes to tomatoes you’re looking for.

00:34:51.000 –> 00:35:01.680 William Ritter: an ugly duckling you know you’re looking for like a something that’s kind of got cracks all over it, and it’s got green on the top but it’s but it’s like it’s not all the way right, so it looks like.

00:35:01.800 –> 00:35:02.670 William Ritter: And that’s true.

00:35:02.970 –> 00:35:13.230 Joseph McElroy: And it’s not like we get grocery stores here and whole foods up here if they got tomatoes and they look they look like they’re both hair color and everything but he’s not talking about those and even.

00:35:13.230 –> 00:35:14.520 Joseph McElroy: Though even uglier.

00:35:14.640 –> 00:35:18.570 William Ritter: And yes, yes yeah and probably not grown in a greenhouse in Canada.

00:35:19.920 –> 00:35:28.680 William Ritter: And so yeah they’re they’re really they they’re sometimes you’ll get one that’s like pristine but that’s not average and also not important.

00:35:29.520 –> 00:35:36.600 William Ritter: But they’re they’re thin is Skinner their their thing is scanner to scan is thinner, that is why they they split you kind of like that.

00:35:37.590 –> 00:35:51.630 William Ritter: And there’ll be usually kind of soft and they can come in different colors so you know yellows you’ll see a lot you’ll see like a pinkish red color and a lot of them are big so they’re like big enough you’d slice them and put them on a sandwich or.

00:35:52.440 –> 00:36:01.500 William Ritter: A tomato biscuit which is never had a tomato biscuit it’s just manet’s and a biscuit and tomato and if that doesn’t sound good you haven’t tried it.

00:36:02.880 –> 00:36:04.230 Joseph McElroy: I wouldn’t have thought that was good.

00:36:04.260 –> 00:36:07.140 William Ritter: Until I had it to made a biscuit in my young life.

00:36:07.170 –> 00:36:11.760 Joseph McElroy: I grew up eating tomato tomato sandwich is that was just saying oh my God.

00:36:11.850 –> 00:36:13.470 William Ritter: Man is right, and so in.

00:36:13.980 –> 00:36:16.200 Joseph McElroy: Real Daddy hellman’s man is.

00:36:17.580 –> 00:36:19.770 William Ritter: Well, you know down here a lot, a lot of dukes.

00:36:20.280 –> 00:36:21.090 Joseph McElroy: Do Sir yeah.

00:36:21.150 –> 00:36:30.720 William Ritter: yeah we’ve got a lot a lot like a Duke Duke fans sometimes basketball and manet’s and sometimes just the manet’s.

00:36:31.800 –> 00:36:32.250 William Ritter: But.

00:36:33.780 –> 00:36:45.480 William Ritter: So so there’s that there’s also what’s called a Mr stripy and I have to mention that that is like a it’s like read on the bottom and yellow on the top and if you cut it open it looks like a sunrise.

00:36:45.930 –> 00:36:51.990 William Ritter: And that’s like one of the quintessential mountain heirlooms and it’s killing me to even think about eating one right now.

00:36:52.140 –> 00:36:52.830 Joseph McElroy: they’re really good.

00:36:53.100 –> 00:36:56.550 William Ritter: they’re really good and then there’s Tommy toes which are like a cherry tomato.

00:36:57.900 –> 00:36:58.920 William Ritter: is another one.

00:37:00.840 –> 00:37:01.950 Joseph McElroy: Where there’s heirloom.

00:37:02.310 –> 00:37:07.200 Joseph McElroy: Fruit right we talked about heirloom apples all these things are a little bit ugly but they’re.

00:37:07.650 –> 00:37:11.640 William Ritter: Often yeah yeah heritage tomatoes, I mean our.

00:37:12.180 –> 00:37:15.450 William Ritter: heritage apples, we could talk all day about.

00:37:16.080 –> 00:37:22.020 William Ritter: But yeah but again I mean again you’re hearing that like a russet sometimes they’re all kind of scarred looking on top those.

00:37:24.990 –> 00:37:36.330 William Ritter: Are the apples, but yeah they’re about a lot of it’s just asking to at the farmers market, I mean but there’s heirlooms and then there’s like other heirlooms but ugly is is the tape.

00:37:38.790 –> 00:37:51.150 Joseph McElroy: So if cooking isn’t your thing right, so you never go to farmer thing then let’s just go eat it why you get it, but we’re What would you say where you can work in the spirit some traditional appalachian foodways.

00:37:51.570 –> 00:38:01.740 William Ritter: Well um I off the top of my head, I mean i’d love to have a real complete list of there should be a good listing for that i’m honestly.

00:38:02.010 –> 00:38:03.240 Joseph McElroy: To tell people about a listing.

00:38:03.750 –> 00:38:15.270 William Ritter: yeah right um well, but I do know in asheville there’s that benny on eagle I don’t know if i’m saying that right, but they have a lot of appalachian and Afro Latin.

00:38:16.410 –> 00:38:29.820 William Ritter: Foods there so that’s that places is really, really good there’s books and hall Barbecue sometimes they have leather riches I don’t know if they might get the health inspector told them they couldn’t do letter bridges anymore, which is a crying shame.

00:38:29.850 –> 00:38:30.870 Joseph McElroy: What is leather britches.

00:38:30.990 –> 00:38:35.970 William Ritter: So a leather britches well i’ll talk about other races in a second.

00:38:36.000 –> 00:38:52.170 William Ritter: But before that there’s the the blind blind pig supper club that’s a charity kind of pop up restaurant farm to table thing really need to go to cherokee there’s paul’s restaurant, which is very famous for really traditional fair.

00:38:53.910 –> 00:39:03.810 William Ritter: You can eat like rabbit and things like that there and then grand kitchen is over in cherokee, and that is a lot of traditional stuff they might not have like green beans and stuff like that, but it’s it’s pretty traditional appalachian food.

00:39:03.870 –> 00:39:08.520 Joseph McElroy: Well there’s I think I heard that bear water grill some good traditional food and.

00:39:08.970 –> 00:39:10.830 Joseph McElroy: They might be doing that and Maggie Valley.

00:39:11.250 –> 00:39:16.830 Joseph McElroy: yeah sweet onion in waynesville those will do some farm to table heirloom stuff as well.

00:39:16.890 –> 00:39:18.930 William Ritter: Oh sure sure yeah well yeah.

00:39:20.340 –> 00:39:25.620 William Ritter: I don’t know frog sleeps still there in waynesville but they have some wonderful farm to.

00:39:25.710 –> 00:39:31.200 Joseph McElroy: table so there’s lots of there’s you know there’s there i’ll be giving a resource at the end on how to find some of this stuff.

00:39:32.430 –> 00:39:34.920 Joseph McElroy: But there is quite a bit of places to visit.

00:39:35.910 –> 00:39:37.890 Joseph McElroy: You mentioned Linda britches i’m dying to know what the heck.

00:39:38.580 –> 00:39:38.910 Joseph McElroy: yeah.

00:39:39.360 –> 00:39:41.940 William Ritter: I know I didn’t know that this was going to be like.

00:39:42.660 –> 00:39:52.770 William Ritter: On zoom video or I would have I would have held up some leather wretches but um maybe you might have heard them called chef beans or szaky beans, possibly.

00:39:53.820 –> 00:40:03.360 William Ritter: But all that is is that back before or new fangled canning technology, where you could preserve your your stuff by canning it.

00:40:04.530 –> 00:40:06.780 William Ritter: And even before you know pickling it.

00:40:08.250 –> 00:40:20.550 William Ritter: People would take their beans still in the hall in in the in the green bean hole, and they would either put it on a piece of twine I use a guitar string.

00:40:21.210 –> 00:40:32.190 William Ritter: But on a or a real waxy strong thread, or sometimes they just put it out over a screen or on a tin roof or in an old car that drives them out real good.

00:40:33.300 –> 00:40:38.790 William Ritter: And then, what happens is they dry up and they turn time it kind of brownish sometimes it look a little green still.

00:40:40.200 –> 00:40:50.730 William Ritter: And, and they look a lot like leather and you can only use certain types of beans for this, by the way, because they have to be like a tender hold to being and you couldn’t use you couldn’t go to the grocery store again.

00:40:51.090 –> 00:40:57.240 William Ritter: and get some of those modern beans and put a string through, it would be like leather because they get tough.

00:40:57.600 –> 00:40:59.220 William Ritter: But, but what you do is.

00:40:59.670 –> 00:41:12.330 William Ritter: Sad those and you they dry and then you can eat them later in the year when you no longer have beans, you know, so you can keep you all through the winter, but what you do is you just cook them you basically not been cooked but you just you know you take that string off that’s important.

00:41:13.650 –> 00:41:21.060 William Ritter: And you put them down in water, and you know big piece of fat pack or something in there, and you just cook it for a good while.

00:41:21.330 –> 00:41:32.760 William Ritter: And it turns into this like completely different thing it’s not like green beans, but it is, and anyone that really grew up on leather britches usually it mentioned it, they just like salivate and they’re.

00:41:32.760 –> 00:41:35.820 William Ritter: Like also frustrated because they’re like I can’t have that.

00:41:37.200 –> 00:41:38.700 William Ritter: Where do you go for leather riches.

00:41:38.790 –> 00:41:41.670 Joseph McElroy: wow I didn’t have that part of my tradition.

00:41:41.670 –> 00:41:43.500 Joseph McElroy: So interesting there’s lots of there’s.

00:41:43.530 –> 00:41:50.340 Joseph McElroy: lots of things in the mountains that are very specific to a particular communities and don’t necessarily translate the other ones right.

00:41:50.370 –> 00:41:55.470 William Ritter: Sure well any you never know when Maybe someone in your family might have had a bad experience so that.

00:41:57.210 –> 00:42:00.060 William Ritter: i’m not doing that anymore canning is much easier.

00:42:00.540 –> 00:42:03.030 William Ritter: I don’t want ugly things all over my torch.

00:42:03.870 –> 00:42:10.470 Joseph McElroy: So if somebody wanted to grow some of this stuff and get some seeds are heirloom seeds to grow in their gardens were being a good place.

00:42:11.280 –> 00:42:34.410 William Ritter: uh well, one that I talked about a lot, because I think they do a really big job is and it’s I think it’s heirlooms.org but that’s the sustainable mountain agriculture farm, it was in berea Kentucky but, but now it’s moved to somewhere in Tennessee to to near another university there.

00:42:35.880 –> 00:42:42.360 William Ritter: And you can go on their website and they have a great selection of just I mean honest to goodness heirloom seeds, I mean they’re the stuff that were.

00:42:42.540 –> 00:42:55.290 William Ritter: passed down and people’s families and and all the different kinds, you can be so educated by going there and look up pink tips and October beans and Greens, the beans and cut shorts, and I mean it just there’s all these kinds of beans it’s incredible.

00:42:56.430 –> 00:43:07.920 William Ritter: Southern appalachian the richest seed shed most most different kinds of seeds in North America right in central Mexico which, to be second to central Mexico and seeds is is incredible.

00:43:09.120 –> 00:43:12.570 William Ritter: So that that’s an important.

00:43:15.360 –> 00:43:17.130 William Ritter: that’s an important place to go.

00:43:18.390 –> 00:43:23.460 William Ritter: there’s also so true seeds just talking about regionally in asheville.

00:43:24.450 –> 00:43:32.070 William Ritter: There you can they have a catalog you can also go to the actual store that’s really nice and they have their seeds, you know a little little farmers.

00:43:32.610 –> 00:43:44.220 William Ritter: markets and and places there’s also also going to feed and seeds, those are huge bryson city farm supply has great seeds, but you know that for me is like tourism, like, I want to go to the feed and see.

00:43:45.120 –> 00:43:56.040 William Ritter: If I see an old hardware store my Ah yes i’m there that’s that wasn’t for me, but also very brief self promotion, I do have some seeds for adoption on my website.

00:43:56.430 –> 00:44:06.660 Joseph McElroy: cool so when we come back we’ll finish up with you tell us a little bit about what you’re doing and resources and I will also tell you some resources to do some agricultural tourism in about.

00:46:25.290 –> 00:46:39.780 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin back holroyd back with the gateway to the smokies podcast with my guest William Ritter, so William you have a you have a organization called song to see, can you tell us about that.

00:46:41.340 –> 00:46:43.890 William Ritter: Well organization makes it sound bigger than it is.

00:46:45.270 –> 00:46:47.310 Joseph McElroy: Always always dressed for what you want to be.

00:46:48.630 –> 00:46:49.230 William Ritter: i’m wearing.

00:46:49.440 –> 00:46:51.810 William Ritter: wearing a flannel Plaid so I guess.

00:46:56.010 –> 00:46:58.110 William Ritter: um yeah so some good seed.

00:46:59.310 –> 00:47:07.740 William Ritter: is something it’s been a little hard for me to actually have a elevator speech for for a while, because it’s not just an organization or a project to.

00:47:09.060 –> 00:47:15.690 William Ritter: kind of share and spread seeds, which is part of it, but really kind of zooming out from that to think about.

00:47:17.610 –> 00:47:27.690 William Ritter: Really, how this can be like a metaphorical seed for all kinds of different appalachian folkways what I am trying to do with my work is to.

00:47:28.530 –> 00:47:44.820 William Ritter: is to a highlight people that I don’t think maybe as our that I want to give credit to people who I don’t think get credit, whether they’re older story to tell us, or just people that are like really you know living there appalachian life but but.

00:47:45.960 –> 00:47:48.030 William Ritter: You know, maybe they’re not getting half credit for that.

00:47:49.080 –> 00:47:57.000 William Ritter: But also, you know i’m really thinking about these folk ways, whether it’s it’s dance Community dances all playing for dances and organizing them.

00:47:57.780 –> 00:48:10.350 William Ritter: Whether it’s a you know getting together these old tile old style working bees, which is like a been stringing or corn shucking where people get together and all you get big crowd to get a big job done quickly it’s like a barn raising that’s.

00:48:10.560 –> 00:48:11.910 William Ritter: thankful working be.

00:48:12.120 –> 00:48:23.400 William Ritter: i’d like to see that kind of stuff come back and within those reconnect all these different folkways together, where they used to be and where I think they held each other up better.

00:48:24.420 –> 00:48:36.270 William Ritter: Rather than kind of separating them into their their little idols I don’t think they’re they stand as well without the context, like the context is is key, I mean like the joke for old time music is it’s better than it sounds.

00:48:38.340 –> 00:48:47.070 William Ritter: So I mean there’s there’s that but that’s really what what i’m aiming to do is is is yes to share seeds, but also to really encourage.

00:48:47.580 –> 00:48:56.400 William Ritter: You know people to pick up music and and end it and to really get their name or their neighbor like I talked about seed saving as a Community act old time music is a Community at dancing is.

00:48:56.880 –> 00:49:05.850 William Ritter: The Act, these are all Community building things that these rural communities used to really rely on me if you think that couldn’t figure that like you know you worked on your.

00:49:06.780 –> 00:49:21.450 William Ritter: Pretty large family farm let’s say and you had like nine brothers and sisters and your parents and your grandma but you didn’t really see anybody else but them from us to the day, the place you’d go, you know it was like a dance to meet other people.

00:49:21.990 –> 00:49:22.890 William Ritter: In the Community to.

00:49:22.950 –> 00:49:38.760 William Ritter: Get that that kind of fellowship if it wasn’t a church, which you know, there was that, too, but that that those are really important when people were disconnected and I think we’re disconnected again we’re really disconnected now i’m with everything that’s going on, as they say.

00:49:38.820 –> 00:49:39.900 Joseph McElroy: yeah right now.

00:49:39.930 –> 00:49:47.700 William Ritter: yeah we are really disconnected I mean, even before the Panda and I was thinking like you know, politically, there is this golf and I, my hope and.

00:49:48.540 –> 00:50:00.750 William Ritter: and ambition is really to try to you know make better neighbors and try to get people to see and hear each other and and maybe see their fun the mental humanity other you know dancing together.

00:50:02.070 –> 00:50:11.520 William Ritter: So i’m so sorry to see it as is kind of vague in some ways it’s an official name for kind of the the entirety of all this stuff that I do, which is a lot.

00:50:11.730 –> 00:50:13.590 William Ritter: Whether it’s teaching fiddle lesson.

00:50:14.730 –> 00:50:31.680 William Ritter: Or what I do a lot of different things, but it’s all around the same kind of idea of you know enriching communities, hopefully revitalizing rural communities and you know getting people, especially young people like to buy in and again and live here so.

00:50:32.370 –> 00:50:35.760 Joseph McElroy: there’s a lot to it, so how do How do people get Ahold of you.

00:50:36.570 –> 00:50:51.030 William Ritter: Well, I do have song to see calm and so you know you can contact me there, we also have a Facebook um and we also have an instagram but that’s that’s pretty much the gist of it.

00:50:51.930 –> 00:50:53.820 Joseph McElroy: You about your your YouTube channel, I saw.

00:50:53.850 –> 00:50:56.280 William Ritter: Oh, I do yeah that’s very fresh that’s very.

00:50:56.430 –> 00:50:58.860 William Ritter: Well it’s not fresh and like a cool way it’s just very new.

00:51:00.090 –> 00:51:12.420 William Ritter: I did, I do have my own YouTube channel, but I say I need to kind of split off that because there’s a whole gaggle of things on on my regular YouTube but, but the song the seeds, where I have.

00:51:14.100 –> 00:51:25.470 William Ritter: Some of the original songs that i’ve written about heirlooms kind of my educational songs that’s also where I will be putting some more kind of like how to kind of stuff with with traditional gardening.

00:51:25.830 –> 00:51:35.700 William Ritter: And also, I have a storyteller on there so that’s another part of work, working with Bobby McMillan is one storyteller and ballad singer particularly that i’ve.

00:51:36.810 –> 00:51:42.450 William Ritter: been working with a lot as a good friend of mine, and so I have him telling an old old folk tale.

00:51:42.720 –> 00:51:43.770 Joseph McElroy: Yes, yeah.

00:51:43.830 –> 00:51:49.830 Joseph McElroy: Well, thank you for coming and being on the show we have some we had a lot of questions we didn’t get to show.

00:51:50.010 –> 00:51:50.430 William Ritter: All right.

00:51:50.910 –> 00:51:52.170 Joseph McElroy: And I think that’ll be great.

00:51:52.170 –> 00:51:52.740 So.

00:51:53.880 –> 00:52:02.850 Joseph McElroy: I want everybody to if you want to find out more about haywood county or agritourism, which is big as actually a big thing in the mountains.

00:52:03.540 –> 00:52:10.860 Joseph McElroy: You can go to gateways to the smokies dot fun, which is the site for this podcast where there’s a lot there’s a previous podcast there’s.

00:52:11.430 –> 00:52:18.600 Joseph McElroy: Articles posted different resources and right at the top on the on the on the far right is a there’s a haywood county.

00:52:19.080 –> 00:52:34.200 Joseph McElroy: agritourism map and PDF information week you can go to that and it’s got its got maps is got listings of all sorts of agritourism related businesses farms restaurants yeah you know.

00:52:35.190 –> 00:52:47.850 Joseph McElroy: You know the tree farms all sorts of wonderful experiences to have in the Near and around the smoky mountains to do outdoor experience, so please go to that site.

00:52:48.840 –> 00:53:00.600 Joseph McElroy: I got a couple other self promotion items now imagine a place evocative of motor courts of the past and modern and vibrant with a chic appalachian fee.

00:53:01.170 –> 00:53:16.560 Joseph McElroy: a place for adventure and for relaxation imagine a place where you can fish and a mountain heritage trout farm grill the catch on the fire and he accompanied by fine wine and craft beer and get it heirloom tomato made into a sandwich.

00:53:18.720 –> 00:53:27.450 Joseph McElroy: method, a place with old time music and world cultural sounds there’s no other place like the metal art motel and Maggie valley North Carolina.

00:53:27.930 –> 00:53:32.610 Joseph McElroy: We are the starting point for all the ventures and the surrounding the mountains have to offer.

00:53:33.030 –> 00:53:44.640 Joseph McElroy: Your smoky mountain adventure starts with where you stay stay at the middle or motel you know the middle of motel calm to find out, we have all sorts of events, ranging from music to.

00:53:45.270 –> 00:53:57.840 Joseph McElroy: Two tours to storytelling and and it’s only we’re developing into a mountain heritage Center over time so keep keep in the loop on that I want to mention.

00:53:58.410 –> 00:54:03.330 Joseph McElroy: This to sponsors i’m involved with both of them smokies adventure.com.

00:54:03.900 –> 00:54:12.810 Joseph McElroy: And it’s an information listings about the smokies his emphasis is on outdoor recreation outdoor life events like weddings and adventures.

00:54:13.110 –> 00:54:31.290 Joseph McElroy: Along with pride in providing information on lodging family entertainment waterfalls events conventions honeymoons and more this site is becoming the leading information for wired where to go what to do in the mountains of the smoky mountains of North Carolina and Tennessee.

00:54:33.000 –> 00:54:42.660 Joseph McElroy: i’m also part of where traveler where traveler is 80 year old magazine that you’ve probably seen in motels or hotels around the world.

00:54:43.050 –> 00:54:50.400 Joseph McElroy: has been focused on cities for this entire existence and about where to do what to do in the cities.

00:54:50.760 –> 00:54:57.570 Joseph McElroy: Well, I have convinced them to focus also on regions and one of them is the first one is the great smoky mountains region.

00:54:58.020 –> 00:55:20.910 Joseph McElroy: which encompasses Eastern Tennessee and and Western North Carolina as well as the great smoky mountains National Park, is actually the size of Massachusetts in terms of scope, scope and there’s many towns, cities and and and other and other tourist attractions, to visit in these mountains.

00:55:21.930 –> 00:55:38.130 Joseph McElroy: And we are creating a destination area where there’s going to be in depth stories about the people and events and and culture that exists in these mountains and they’re also be a listings there for the major.

00:55:39.360 –> 00:55:52.920 Joseph McElroy: Major things to be doing for waiting from the biltmore states to dollywood so please visit where traveler.com slash great smoky mountains this this this podcast is on the talk.

00:55:54.000 –> 00:56:07.920 Joseph McElroy: Talk radio dot nyc network there’s lots of great podcasts on the show, in fact, I have another one that’s business related called wise content creates wealth on Fridays from one to two after this.

00:56:08.610 –> 00:56:16.980 Joseph McElroy: This podcast today there’s one on New York City, so you could stay around your been in the small town rural area now go visit the big towns.

00:56:17.370 –> 00:56:27.000 Joseph McElroy: And so stick around and listen to that podcast it’s very great, I appreciate it next week with another great gateway the smokies podcast Thank you William and we’ll see you that.

00:56:27.210 –> 00:56:27.630 You.

Joseph and his guest Mike Ogletree talk about some of the museums that can be found in the Smoky Mountains.

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Tune in for this fun conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.

Joseph starts off by starting about the Wheels Through Time Museum in Maggie Valley. Joseph and Mike share stories about attractions near where they live that funnily enough, they haven’t visited. Joseph describes the museum and an upcoming event being held there. This is one of several museums displaying automobiles in the Smokies. Others have different focuses such as antique cars and trucks. In the Gatlinburg area, there are 3 big car museums. One such museum houses cars from movies such as the original Batman and Knight Rider. NASA has a research institute in the mountains that runs camps and programs for families. There are many science museums in the park though, such as the national museum of science.

Mike discusses Jack of the Wood, where he used to go to listen to live Celtic music. He goes on to talk about other live music venues in Asheville. Joseph shares more museums and music venues in and around Asheville. Just outside Asheville is the Black Mountain College Museum, which sits where the college once was before closing in 1957. The school focused heavily on the arts, part of the reason why music is such a large part of the culture of the area.

Mike discusses the history of the Cherokee people and his experience in their museum. Joseph goes on to share his experiences in the museum. There are hundreds, if not thousands of history museums in the Smokies, with many towns having their own. Joseph discusses other museums he thinks are worth seeing. Joseph and Mike talk about fly fishing in the mountains and the Cherokee fly fishing tournament. They dive into the Celtic culture in the mountains, with Mike diving further into the culture through his discussion of the Tartan Museum.

Mike discusses his current project, where he will be performing Irish songs for Saint Patrick's day. This show will tell stories of the Irish people through song.

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00:00:39.930 –> 00:00:40.560 Joseph McElroy: Howdy.

00:00:41.130 –> 00:00:46.200 Joseph McElroy: Thanks for setting this bell with us on this week’s episode of gateway to the smokies.

00:00:46.860 –> 00:00:54.720 Joseph McElroy: This podcast is about America’s most visited National Park, the great smoky mountain national park, and the surrounding towns.

00:00:55.350 –> 00:01:04.950 Joseph McElroy: This area’s filled with ancient natural beauty deep storied history and rich mountain culture that we will explore with weekly episodes.

00:01:05.850 –> 00:01:20.340 Joseph McElroy: I am Joseph Franklin McElroy a man of the world, but also a deep roots and these mountains my families did lived in the great smoky mountains, for over 200 years my business in travel, but my heart is in culture.

00:01:21.570 –> 00:01:29.460 Joseph McElroy: Today we’re going to talk about museums and other similar attractions in the smokies in the surrounding areas.

00:01:30.570 –> 00:01:39.090 Joseph McElroy: I’m going to talk about a bunch of my favorites and then my I have a friend here his name is Mike Ogletree he was on my first show.

00:01:39.540 –> 00:01:46.020 Joseph McElroy: And he’s the black Scotsman and he’s the resident artists at the middle Arc motel and he’s going to join me.

00:01:46.680 –> 00:01:55.110 Joseph McElroy: to comment as he will he’s been to a few of the places I mentioned, and then he’s going to tell us about a project he’s been working on at the end of this show around St Patrick’s day.

00:01:56.130 –> 00:02:13.500 Joseph McElroy: Now I had a guest that could also had a family emergency and couldn’t make it today, so this is a new podcast we put together so bear with us as we’re talking about stuff that I think you’ll still find interesting so start off, I have a little bit of a self interest.

00:02:14.760 –> 00:02:18.150 Joseph McElroy: admission to make here and we’ll talk about a museum that’s right in my backyard.

00:02:18.990 –> 00:02:31.020 Joseph McElroy: it’s the wheels through time matt matt museum and Maggie valley and it’s right behind my motel the middle art motel and Maggie bow, so I do have a little bit of knowledge about it but, and I imagine Mike Mike does to.

00:02:32.550 –> 00:02:34.260 Joseph McElroy: The are you doing Mike.

00:02:35.070 –> 00:02:37.740 Mike Ogletree: doing very well, thank you very much for having me on again.

00:02:38.070 –> 00:02:40.380 Joseph McElroy: Her how’s the how’s the weather down there.

00:02:41.670 –> 00:02:45.210 Mike Ogletree: Well it’s in the mountains so it’s.

00:02:46.290 –> 00:02:55.860 Mike Ogletree: Often oil it’s been mostly clear blue skies and crispy cool fresh here and to do just a little bit overcast.

00:02:56.310 –> 00:02:59.130 Mike Ogletree: yeah that’s what I see it in the mountains so dropping on.

00:03:00.360 –> 00:03:05.820 Mike Ogletree: That doesn’t really matter whether the weather’s offer on it’s always spectacular years but as i’m concerned.

00:03:06.510 –> 00:03:08.550 Joseph McElroy: Have you been over the wheel Sir time museum.

00:03:09.090 –> 00:03:11.640 Mike Ogletree: You know I haven’t done that one yet know.

00:03:12.720 –> 00:03:32.760 Mike Ogletree: Obviously i’ve seen know stuff that i’ve learned about it and been to the website, but haven’t haven’t done that, when I mean the thing is that you get all these bikes around here have been to the rallies and things like that, so I guess i’m just had my appetite has been created.

00:03:33.990 –> 00:03:40.890 Mike Ogletree: For vintage cars and motivates and all that because really living etc so much.

00:03:41.130 –> 00:03:43.830 Joseph McElroy: You take a lot of pictures of but you know that’s a little bit like me, I live.

00:03:45.000 –> 00:03:54.450 Joseph McElroy: Where I live in New York City I also live in full disclosure I also live in New York City, I have a marketing company here, but I spent a lot of time back in my hometown.

00:03:55.740 –> 00:04:05.550 Joseph McElroy: I live across from the empire state building, I mean i’m from the the freedom tower and I have never gone up there yet i’m sort of waiting Now for my babies to grow up and i’ll take them up there.

00:04:06.660 –> 00:04:22.110 Joseph McElroy: But you know the wheels through time museum is actually the world’s premier collection of rare American motorcycles memorabilia and it’s got a sort of a bunch of one off unique American automobiles.

00:04:22.230 –> 00:04:30.420 Mike Ogletree: yeah it’s so popular that Jason memoria is friends with the owners and goes to try it.

00:04:30.660 –> 00:04:42.510 Joseph McElroy: yeah cool man yeah so he was just he was there in October, he he he was he made the news that time I saw that that was pretty actually slept in the museum molly was there.

00:04:43.320 –> 00:04:51.840 Joseph McElroy: yeah I had a cotton the museum, but you know there’s there’s about 300 rare machines in there, and you know it would be.

00:04:52.410 –> 00:05:01.230 Joseph McElroy: The interesting thing, and I think the reason you know people like him go there it’s not just you look at this stuff all those machines actually run.

00:05:01.680 –> 00:05:18.570 Joseph McElroy: And in our operating condition, so you know the owners and the staff have had a you know, a history of enabling have a TV show about motorcycle and they fix them up and every year they actually renovate a some classic motorcycle and do a.

00:05:19.740 –> 00:05:22.230 Joseph McElroy: contest to win it.

00:05:23.280 –> 00:05:30.510 Joseph McElroy: So they will actually start these machines on a regular basis, and let the visitors coming you know, listen to them, so you get to actually see.

00:05:31.650 –> 00:05:39.510 Joseph McElroy: The you know and hear the get a real sense of these really classical and prices machines now.

00:05:41.100 –> 00:05:51.900 Joseph McElroy: For those interested opening day is always a good day and that’s April 1 this year and they’ve got a bunch of new horsepower all right they’ve got.

00:05:52.650 –> 00:06:04.290 Joseph McElroy: they’ve been adding and improving the all the exhibits there and they’ve been rebuilding and restoring a bunch of motorcycles, so they have some new some great new rare bikes there and some new.

00:06:04.950 –> 00:06:17.940 Joseph McElroy: New memorabilia to go check out in the gift shop don’t remember you can come by the the middle our motown stay right across narrow be easy to go over there one or two days so combine help kick off the museum season.

00:06:18.480 –> 00:06:20.460 Mike Ogletree: don’t we have a deal with them as well, we have a.

00:06:20.460 –> 00:06:21.660 Mike Ogletree: deal with them.

00:06:21.720 –> 00:06:32.100 Joseph McElroy: yeah I think we have a discount if you stay with us so yeah it’s a you know, so you can and we’re a motorcycle friendly place so motorcyclists love to come there.

00:06:32.730 –> 00:06:47.280 Joseph McElroy: Because you know it’s plenty of parking we have you know we have a big recreation area that sort of like clubhouse promoter cyclists and you know we have we have motorcycle rags right ready for them to us, they have to grab the towels or anything like that.

00:06:48.480 –> 00:06:58.830 Joseph McElroy: Now some other motorcycle and car related museums in the smoky mountain there there’s there several I mentioned one or two is the there’s one called the antique automobile.

00:06:59.520 –> 00:07:08.940 Joseph McElroy: automobile museum at the grove would village all right Max in here that’s that’s near that’s an actual near the omni croke park in.

00:07:09.600 –> 00:07:22.230 Joseph McElroy: And it has a on display there 18 old cars, including a 1913 model T Ford 57 cadillac Eldorado program and 59 edsel.

00:07:22.680 –> 00:07:31.320 Joseph McElroy: along a real, along with a really old the miracle of France fire truck it’s a small low key museum but it’s kind of Nice and kind of Nice, and you know the old.

00:07:31.950 –> 00:07:43.980 Joseph McElroy: Growth proc in is a premier luxury place, you can go and have got several restaurants in there and it’s got it so it’s nice to go visit the there go to a restaurant then see some of the things in that area there’s several things.

00:07:44.670 –> 00:07:50.580 Joseph McElroy: Another place another museum is the Bennett classics the antique auto museum right.

00:07:51.960 –> 00:08:08.850 Joseph McElroy: And that has more than 50 antique trucks and trucks cars on displays and it’s an actually you can also buy things so it’s a working classics museum, so you can actually buy antique automobiles there so and it’s in forest city.

00:08:10.050 –> 00:08:16.110 Joseph McElroy: Which is a nice little town and then another place to go is the Granite falls history and transportation.

00:08:16.830 –> 00:08:26.310 Joseph McElroy: CME, which is also in Granite falls and it’s located in 1790s Andrew Blair House and it has a it has a lot of.

00:08:27.090 –> 00:08:34.920 Joseph McElroy: exhibitions on the history and on transportation in that town, now the bigger there’s a there’s three big car museums.

00:08:35.550 –> 00:08:46.860 Joseph McElroy: In in the gatlinburg pigeon forward area and there’s a Hollywood stars car museum star cars museum and it’s got some of the most famous vehicles from TV and music him in movie history.

00:08:48.360 –> 00:08:49.020 Joseph McElroy: it’s got.

00:08:50.490 –> 00:09:03.000 Joseph McElroy: batmobile from the original Batman series has got dragged you law from the munsters remember that show and it’s got the jalopy from the beverly hillbillies and it’s got kitt from knight rider.

00:09:03.570 –> 00:09:09.990 Joseph McElroy: So it’s a kind of thing so it’s a it’s a pretty the These are big touristy museums, but they’re fun.

00:09:11.280 –> 00:09:19.380 Joseph McElroy: there’s another really awesome car Museum in gatlinburg is called speed works and it specializes in exotic automobiles.

00:09:19.710 –> 00:09:29.670 Joseph McElroy: which are basically European sports cars that are worth over $250,000 and basically they’re they’re left there they’re left there for cake cake care.

00:09:29.880 –> 00:09:39.240 Joseph McElroy: By the owners who are not using them, so you get to see them, and you know there’s a different roster because it owners, a different time come back and want to drive their cars, but.

00:09:39.510 –> 00:09:52.140 Joseph McElroy: it’s kind of cool and then you have the floyd garrett’s muscle car museum, which has inventory of over $8 million nine $8 million and there’s about 90 muscle cars at the museum.

00:09:52.530 –> 00:10:01.380 Joseph McElroy: Which are you know American crassness ship the innovation from the 50s and 60s and 70s and they’re beautifully maintained and displayed so.

00:10:02.250 –> 00:10:09.390 Joseph McElroy: You know, we got you know there’s also I think there’s an aviation museum around a little bit later we’re talking about railroads we got a lot of good.

00:10:09.810 –> 00:10:17.760 Joseph McElroy: People for the looking into the you know that kind of car culture, you know Rome culture was a big thing in the mountains, and still is.

00:10:19.230 –> 00:10:24.630 Joseph McElroy: Now i’m going to talk about science, a little bit, we have some great science locations in the mountains.

00:10:25.860 –> 00:10:35.190 Joseph McElroy: That one I found that was pretty cool is the pisco astronomical research institute now i’ve never been in there, but i’ve been by it.

00:10:36.570 –> 00:10:38.040 Joseph McElroy: And it’s.

00:10:39.150 –> 00:10:58.440 Joseph McElroy: it’s it was built by NASA in 1962 is the East course coast facility to track satellites and monitor manned spaceflight now Mike you live in down here I you know if you noticed that we get a lot of strange flights and objects in the skies and the in those nights in the mountains.

00:10:58.770 –> 00:10:59.460 Mike Ogletree: Definitely.

00:10:59.700 –> 00:11:08.730 Joseph McElroy: Definitely so there’s there’s been a lot of NASA related things and air force related things in the mountains, we never for sure what it is, but you know this this.

00:11:09.030 –> 00:11:23.130 Joseph McElroy: pique my interest because you know, maybe there’s something coming from there, but it is a nonprofit educational world class research Center and has a massive radio telescopes all right and it’s located in braveheart and it has.

00:11:23.250 –> 00:11:25.020 Mike Ogletree: It has space camp as well.

00:11:25.500 –> 00:11:26.760 Joseph McElroy: yeah right.

00:11:28.380 –> 00:11:45.000 Joseph McElroy: And they have you know it has it allows visitors and they can get immersed in the science and technology and they and they have some programs there that you can go to they even have some camping and some camp, if you want to do some online onsite logic.

00:11:46.290 –> 00:11:47.550 Joseph McElroy: And it’s open right now.

00:11:48.660 –> 00:12:02.550 Joseph McElroy: So it’s worthwhile taking the kids there in fact it has a may six 2021 from nine to 11 it has an evening viewing of the have a meteor shower that’s going to happen.

00:12:03.930 –> 00:12:11.730 Joseph McElroy: Because it’s a great view because we’re one of the few dark sky parks in the nation where there’s there’s no light to disturb you.

00:12:12.840 –> 00:12:25.200 Joseph McElroy: Know city lights nothing so you know you can really see it so grab a picnic basket bring along chair, you know it’s close enough the motel you can come and go there come back you know and it’s a good experience.

00:12:26.490 –> 00:12:31.920 Joseph McElroy: Others I the other science related museums in the mountains i’d like to mention is you got the.

00:12:32.370 –> 00:12:41.430 Joseph McElroy: appalachian Highland science learning at the purchase and that’s not too far from the for where we are to it’s located at 4900 feet in.

00:12:42.210 –> 00:12:57.750 Joseph McElroy: elevation the great smoky mountain mountains National Park, is actually one of the few facilities in the park and it’s a part where as part of a network of 32 research learning centers and it’s supporting research and education about science and our national parks.

00:12:59.550 –> 00:13:05.190 Joseph McElroy: And so it’s it’s dedicated to really increasing the amount and effectiveness of research in the appalachians.

00:13:06.600 –> 00:13:14.190 Joseph McElroy: it’s it’s it’s a great place to go and visit and it’s also got great hockey hiking around there so it’s a good day trip.

00:13:15.630 –> 00:13:31.050 Joseph McElroy: Other science related you know attractions in the mountains, you have the actual museum of sight science and it has interactive science experiences dealing with ecology climate weather.

00:13:31.800 –> 00:13:35.850 Joseph McElroy: So it’s a good town downtown visit they go to asheville you got.

00:13:36.660 –> 00:13:45.210 Joseph McElroy: You got wonder works which is in pigeon forwards and it’s one of the most popular attractions and it’s it’s an A humongous upside down building.

00:13:45.690 –> 00:13:53.130 Joseph McElroy: And it combines a science fair with an amusement park at a children’s museum all rolled up into one huge experience.

00:13:53.460 –> 00:14:09.720 Joseph McElroy: And it has it gives you access to over 150 active activities ranging from roller coaster simulators to black ride core broke courses, so when we come back i’m going to start talking a little bit about the art galleries and museums in the mountains.

00:14:10.770 –> 00:14:12.120 Joseph McElroy: And we’ll see when we come back.

00:17:10.920 –> 00:17:20.730 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin mcilroy back with a gateway to the smokies podcast with my guest and friend Mike ogletree hey make.

00:17:21.060 –> 00:17:24.450 Mike Ogletree: Hello there friends of gateway to the smoky.

00:17:24.990 –> 00:17:34.110 Joseph McElroy: hey Mike i’m going to talk about artists second video if you’ve been you’ve been the actual regular basis you’ve been into the art places that are good doing some good good music there.

00:17:34.950 –> 00:17:37.500 Mike Ogletree: My I used to go to the.

00:17:38.730 –> 00:17:47.970 Mike Ogletree: jack of the book, which is, I was talking to somebody about it just the other day, because I don’t think that doing any like music in nashville at the moment but.

00:17:48.480 –> 00:18:00.930 Mike Ogletree: When they did jack of the would wish, when I would go because he had something every night, they would have Monday night, they would have an open MIC Tuesday night, they would have.

00:18:02.490 –> 00:18:15.390 Mike Ogletree: An Irish jam session and then itself something in the afternoon something in the evening, and it was like that you know it’s like that seven days a week, do you really enjoy it was all Celtic or.

00:18:16.830 –> 00:18:27.600 Mike Ogletree: You know authentic American music, such as cajun used to go up kitchen band in there, then of course bluegrass music and Irish.

00:18:28.860 –> 00:18:38.160 Mike Ogletree: A ritual Irish music, then they do contemporary bluegrass as well, but it’s just unfortunate because with the virus.

00:18:39.630 –> 00:18:41.100 Mike Ogletree: I understand the asheville.

00:18:42.150 –> 00:18:54.600 Mike Ogletree: For for the good part of the year last year was closed down, and I see Unfortunately I also went to the call that the onion as a piece called the onion.

00:18:55.380 –> 00:19:07.020 Mike Ogletree: yeah I went to the great gigs here and reminds me of the 80s 70s, in the 80s in London and there are a lot of really good gigs.

00:19:07.410 –> 00:19:16.890 Mike Ogletree: That you could go to and they were all they were set up and dedicated to do in live bands, in other words data good PA system that a good lighting system.

00:19:17.460 –> 00:19:27.120 Mike Ogletree: In asheville is fortunate to to have that, as far as I, I saw has that in speech you know got a lot of good venues the onion which one.

00:19:28.020 –> 00:19:45.270 Mike Ogletree: Do you remember the other one I went to go again it was just a great venue I had a partner at a bar a good light and a good PA system and just just great great atmosphere for people wanting to go and see live music and then great opportunity for people wanting to clean like.

00:19:46.620 –> 00:19:54.090 Joseph McElroy: Oh, you know I got a couple of things for you to check out and natural wonders if you ever heard the moves it moves in.

00:19:54.840 –> 00:19:55.800 Mike Ogletree: The movie museum.

00:19:56.010 –> 00:19:56.940 Joseph McElroy: Moves in.

00:19:57.300 –> 00:20:01.980 Mike Ogletree: I mean i’ve been actually to move a factory that I didn’t know, there was a museum.

00:20:02.190 –> 00:20:12.480 Joseph McElroy: You know about movers he’d been in the moog synthesizer right now, they have they have a museum dedicated interactive music experiences.

00:20:12.750 –> 00:20:13.440 Mike Ogletree: In nashville.

00:20:13.740 –> 00:20:15.000 Joseph McElroy: And nashville yeah.

00:20:15.270 –> 00:20:25.650 Joseph McElroy: it’s more media interactive you definitely have to go see that it sounds like it’s a blast and he’s got he’s got over 700 archival bits and things like that.

00:20:27.030 –> 00:20:32.310 Joseph McElroy: And it’s a and you know and it’s also got stuff about the theremin right.

00:20:32.790 –> 00:20:33.150 Joseph McElroy: Right.

00:20:33.450 –> 00:20:34.440 precursor really.

00:20:37.080 –> 00:20:49.200 Joseph McElroy: yeah but the other thing you should know which I just found out, which is great news is the asheville museum art museum now has on second thursday’s live music.

00:20:50.130 –> 00:20:54.690 Joseph McElroy: Right, the actual art museum is open up and now in the second Thursday of the month, it has a.

00:20:55.410 –> 00:21:04.740 Joseph McElroy: Music to accomplish a couple of visits, so you can go they got limited, you know entry about the number of people, but you can go look at art and listen to tune, so I think that’s pretty good.

00:21:05.220 –> 00:21:19.350 Joseph McElroy: You know the the actual art museum just opened up after a $24 million renovation and expansion it’s now a 68,000 square foot museum featuring 20th and 21st century art American art.

00:21:19.950 –> 00:21:33.150 Joseph McElroy: Has over 5000 objects and art pieces there’s a rooftop sculpture terraces there’s a CAFE and then it’s got some real interesting lighted experiences after dark outside.

00:21:34.110 –> 00:21:36.090 Joseph McElroy: it’s got a glass interior that oh.

00:21:37.050 –> 00:21:43.440 Joseph McElroy: will eliminate it is in the Center of the town, so it illuminates the the big parks pack Square, where all the action is.

00:21:43.680 –> 00:21:57.270 Joseph McElroy: So it’s great so it’s you know it’s a great visit you go see art, you see, you know, music and then the right in the middle of all the downtown cafes and it’s a CAFE society, I would definitely not miss that.

00:21:58.800 –> 00:22:10.410 Joseph McElroy: Something that you know, for me, I remember growing up and go into the actual art museum and in my teens I saw work by Joseph l bears that impressed me.

00:22:12.390 –> 00:22:20.310 Joseph McElroy: And they have a lot of art, they have a collection of art from the what’s called the Black mountain school of modern art.

00:22:21.720 –> 00:22:34.920 Joseph McElroy: And that’s because only 20 minutes east of asheville is the black mountain college was the black mountain college, which actually closed and 57 but they now have what’s called the Black mountain college museum and art Center.

00:22:36.150 –> 00:22:43.500 Joseph McElroy: And it can it preserves and continues that legacy of educational in our artistic innovation that was at the black Martin school.

00:22:45.180 –> 00:22:50.220 Joseph McElroy: The black mountain called started actually 1933 right and it.

00:22:51.840 –> 00:22:59.790 Joseph McElroy: was born out of desire to create a new type of college based on john do is principal progressive education so.

00:23:00.060 –> 00:23:08.250 Joseph McElroy: The founders of college that believe that the study and practice of art are indispensable X for aspects of the students general liberal arts education.

00:23:08.700 –> 00:23:23.430 Joseph McElroy: And so they ended up hiring Joseph l bears and his and and and his wife Annie to be the to be the first our teachers, even though they spoke no English, they were from Germany and they were you know they were fleeing hitler’s Germany.

00:23:24.690 –> 00:23:40.770 Joseph McElroy: And then they went to this small mountain college rebellious college in the mountains of North Carolina and you know, of course, they come from the German school of art, which was really you know magnificent at the time, and it was so the blank mountain school is fundamentally different.

00:23:41.910 –> 00:23:53.520 Joseph McElroy: From the time it was owned and operated by the Faculty and was committed to democratic governance and and be the Archer central learning Center so it really attracted.

00:23:54.300 –> 00:24:03.420 Joseph McElroy: Some amazing people and who became legendary and it had it had a 20th century’s great, and this is just a partial list.

00:24:03.900 –> 00:24:07.590 Joseph McElroy: William and Alain de kooning Robert rauschenberg.

00:24:08.070 –> 00:24:21.600 Joseph McElroy: The album herbs Jacob Lawrence merce Cunningham john cage side trombley Kenneth nolan Susan well very be Williams Ben Shaw, you know and many others friends climb, you know it was just you know.

00:24:22.200 –> 00:24:40.500 Joseph McElroy: You know, for me, growing up and finding out this it existed in my little you know area of the world, you know that sort of open up my head that anything’s possible in terms of being able to leave there and do something in the world and it inspired me dramatically.

00:24:41.700 –> 00:24:53.070 Joseph McElroy: Right now, the school is open and you can actually go into her and see things, and they have lots of virtual friends, but you have to do an appointment, you can send an email to info at black mountain college or.

00:24:54.960 –> 00:24:55.860 Joseph McElroy: Another good.

00:24:57.630 –> 00:24:58.380 Joseph McElroy: school.

00:24:59.760 –> 00:25:07.200 Joseph McElroy: To mention is the arrow mount schools of arts and crafts and arts and crafts Center in the US and it’s in the city of gatlinburg Tennessee.

00:25:07.710 –> 00:25:12.270 Joseph McElroy: And it’s the oldest craft school in Tennessee and it offers a lot of workshops in arts and crafts.

00:25:12.720 –> 00:25:24.660 Joseph McElroy: And it covers the gamut of painting woodworking drawing class photography basket weaving ceramic fiber arts book arts and metal work is pretty stupendous and you’re able to go and view and see things in the galleries.

00:25:27.030 –> 00:25:27.750 Joseph McElroy: And then.

00:25:29.250 –> 00:25:37.650 Joseph McElroy: One of the we were talking about the omni grow park in earlier, where there was that car museum will adjacent to the omni growth park international.

00:25:38.040 –> 00:25:48.600 Joseph McElroy: is one of those hidden gems and it’s known as grove would village, and this is a historic site and it wants to hose the weaving and would Kirk woodworking operations have built more industries.

00:25:49.140 –> 00:26:03.060 Joseph McElroy: Now you’ll discover arts and crafts, a destination that offers a glimpse of all what arts and crafts was critical so that you know to actual story so it’s a nice place to visit and, like, I said that area is a great little.

00:26:03.690 –> 00:26:15.180 Joseph McElroy: Day trip for Maggie Valley, you know we we really say that many hours a day trip from asheville but, in this context, have been in the smoky mountains actual the day trip from the smokies.

00:26:16.710 –> 00:26:17.220 Joseph McElroy: So.

00:26:18.360 –> 00:26:24.420 Joseph McElroy: that’s I hope that’s a little bit of a story into the arts and it’s not exciting there’s a lot of great arts going on, when you say my.

00:26:25.290 –> 00:26:41.010 Mike Ogletree: Definitely, I mean that’s just I only spoke about the music but i’ve spent several times just walking down the arts I think it’s called art district returned by the River near.

00:26:41.370 –> 00:26:44.520 Joseph McElroy: The River arts district place to go.

00:26:44.610 –> 00:27:04.080 Mike Ogletree: yeah and you can you can do you can just go down there and look and be amazed, but you can also go down there and participate, because you do classes and they’ll let you blow glass and they’ll let you turn pottery and all that kind of stuff so it’s really great it’s great fun.

00:27:05.970 –> 00:27:06.810 Mike Ogletree: Paper i’m missing.

00:27:07.230 –> 00:27:17.880 Joseph McElroy: The pottery is is is a great tradition and the mountains of North Carolina and the smoky mountains, especially you know in every little town has their potter but you know that in fact right.

00:27:18.360 –> 00:27:25.140 Joseph McElroy: One point we’re gonna have a potter come in and talk have a show on the potter we have a potter that that is actually.

00:27:25.650 –> 00:27:39.840 Joseph McElroy: Has a studio a couple couple doors down from the middle Arc motel and he’s more than just to us he’s more than just a potter his dad actually built the first building of the middle Arc motel so there’s a deep connection there and they both.

00:27:40.950 –> 00:27:41.730 Joseph McElroy: In a sense.

00:27:42.150 –> 00:27:43.470 Joseph McElroy: Both of us grew up.

00:27:43.620 –> 00:27:47.040 Joseph McElroy: In the middle art motel he was just a little bit earlier generations.

00:27:47.280 –> 00:27:49.800 Mike Ogletree: By the way, is just a pity you can’t see.

00:27:50.160 –> 00:27:52.740 Mike Ogletree: His pottery because it is spectacular.

00:27:55.050 –> 00:28:05.550 Joseph McElroy: Alright, so when we come back we’re talking about some of the history museums, that we can go to in the smoky mountains and then we’ll get into talking about miscellaneous things and get into mike’s project.

00:30:55.710 –> 00:31:08.790 Joseph McElroy: This is Joseph Franklin McElroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcasts and i’m talking with Mike ogletree we’re talking about the museums and similar attractions in the mountains now Mike.

00:31:10.020 –> 00:31:15.090 Joseph McElroy: you’ve been to cherokee you went to that cherokee Indian museum dinner.

00:31:15.810 –> 00:31:28.620 Mike Ogletree: Yes, I did be Nova and I think I spend the whole afternoon now you know it’s not very big but it’s big enough to and the things that they have India.

00:31:29.340 –> 00:31:49.500 Mike Ogletree: Definitely merit reading and studying and learning about because the history of the cherokee people is it particularly connected to like right now what’s happening in the country, you know so.

00:31:50.550 –> 00:32:01.050 Mike Ogletree: go in there and just going through the museum, as I call it have a look is kind of half of the half of the visit the other half is really studying up.

00:32:01.620 –> 00:32:14.400 Mike Ogletree: and learning about what happened to you not like, specifically the trail of tears this kind of thing but it we saw it, you saw much a part of the mountain culture at the time, you know.

00:32:15.690 –> 00:32:17.550 Mike Ogletree: The involved.

00:32:19.050 –> 00:32:27.840 Mike Ogletree: Like people of all races, as it were, as a very diverse time and in American history and.

00:32:29.280 –> 00:32:46.110 Mike Ogletree: If you don’t really know about unless you do something like go to the cherokee museum and find out about the people what they were doing hows about live in her they were interacting because they were kind of a little bit, apart from the rest of.

00:32:47.130 –> 00:32:56.400 Mike Ogletree: The rest of the country so it’s not something that you, you hear talked about, very often, you know so that that was that was my deep.

00:32:57.360 –> 00:33:13.440 Mike Ogletree: My deep experiencing going there with just you know superficially and then and the sense of the beauty that that you see in terms of the art and the craft and the people and everything it’s just it’s just a wonderful.

00:33:14.040 –> 00:33:27.360 Joseph McElroy: Wonderful, what do you think of I do the thing I am you know I saw my first whole graph at the at the that Turkey museum and you know, I was it was.

00:33:27.840 –> 00:33:38.430 Joseph McElroy: It was a it was a medicine man who sort of was a virtual guide throughout the whole experience of going through the the exhibit wasn’t that that pretty amazing.

00:33:39.090 –> 00:33:42.930 Mike Ogletree: You know I don’t think I could remember not working, when I was there.

00:33:43.590 –> 00:33:46.050 Joseph McElroy: Okay well if they have.

00:33:47.580 –> 00:33:59.550 Joseph McElroy: I mean they have different exhibits but there’s one exhibit that goes there that they will have a holographic medicine man, you know, in general, the you know they have.

00:34:00.810 –> 00:34:03.030 Joseph McElroy: They the cherokee museum.

00:34:04.560 –> 00:34:05.010 Joseph McElroy: Is.

00:34:06.090 –> 00:34:17.010 Joseph McElroy: tells the story of like Mike said a lot of the the the the successes and the tragedies of the cherokee people in the in the carolinas.

00:34:18.270 –> 00:34:30.240 Joseph McElroy: And it’s actually goes back they claim 13,000 years of culture and the that when they do historical tour, they will have holograms.

00:34:30.750 –> 00:34:45.570 Joseph McElroy: because their specialty is even though it’s a it’s not a giant museum is to do an immersive experience with the digital and displays and holograms and any kind of technology and give you a real full sensory experience.

00:34:46.620 –> 00:34:55.710 Joseph McElroy: So you get to experience the check he’s put people’s inventiveness and resilience and will to survive and sort of this girl way.

00:34:56.370 –> 00:35:11.010 Joseph McElroy: And it’s very moving, you should probably bring a handkerchief because there’s some points where you’re going to actually you know, maybe have a tear in your eye and I remember it being that moving all right, and really.

00:35:13.290 –> 00:35:15.720 Joseph McElroy: Somebody I will remember, for the rest of my life.

00:35:16.890 –> 00:35:23.280 Joseph McElroy: So I consider one of the best museums i’ve ever been to and worthwhile now.

00:35:24.900 –> 00:35:28.110 Joseph McElroy: there’s a lot of history, museums in the in the mountains.

00:35:29.340 –> 00:35:39.270 Joseph McElroy: I would say, you know, probably I would when I was starting to do a little research on it, I you know I saw list was hundreds of not.

00:35:39.630 –> 00:35:48.300 Joseph McElroy: You know, several hundred on there, and if you went through the whole area that we call the smoky mountains, which is an East Tennessee in the western North Carolina area.

00:35:48.750 –> 00:36:02.790 Joseph McElroy: there’s I mean there’s hundreds, maybe over 1000 history museums and because every town has a stork house that has a museum right every hour several so and they’re all worth while going to.

00:36:04.320 –> 00:36:05.490 Joseph McElroy: Now i’m.

00:36:06.540 –> 00:36:13.320 Joseph McElroy: and other history museums, I think that are worthwhile is you got the great smoky mountains heritage Center.

00:36:13.770 –> 00:36:26.550 Joseph McElroy: And it’s open now and it’s a it’s a museum dedicated to honoring the settlers and habits of the great smoky mountain region, including the earliest centers the settlers, the native American.

00:36:27.870 –> 00:36:37.230 Joseph McElroy: And so it’s it’s a it’s it’s one of the branded museums, to go to larger than in waynesville which is close to us is the Shelton house.

00:36:37.590 –> 00:36:42.300 Joseph McElroy: Which is built in 1875 and is listed on the national register of historic places.

00:36:42.720 –> 00:36:49.770 Joseph McElroy: And it’s and it’s it’s it it’s a it’s the it’s got the Museum of natural North Carolina handicrafts.

00:36:50.130 –> 00:37:04.620 Joseph McElroy: And it’s got a comprehensive exhibits of 19th century crafts and hooting hand woven cover let’s quilt sculptured post porcelain doll summers masterpieces of pottery work in furniture and native American artifice packed.

00:37:06.060 –> 00:37:16.950 Joseph McElroy: And it also keep it’ll also have artists that had been at the New York state fair curated collection of crafts, that will also be displayed there so it’s it’s an excellent.

00:37:19.620 –> 00:37:25.710 Joseph McElroy: place to get a nice historical overview of the crafts, but.

00:37:26.820 –> 00:37:38.820 Joseph McElroy: Before I leave cherokee all right, I know we’re getting in some some of the miscellaneous museums, there is actually a fly fishing museum of the southern appalachian.

00:37:39.420 –> 00:37:43.650 Joseph McElroy: And and it’s located actually close to cherokee and bryce’s city.

00:37:44.310 –> 00:37:59.580 Joseph McElroy: And and and I like to talk about fly fishing, because we have a great fly fishing stream that part of it flows behind the smoky mountain the middle or motel and I grew up fly fishing and it’s a great place the smoky mountains, a great place for fly fishing.

00:38:00.840 –> 00:38:05.580 Mike Ogletree: I just if you know that he do official off the cherokee that.

00:38:05.730 –> 00:38:06.270 Mike Ogletree: Graham.

00:38:06.450 –> 00:38:10.650 Joseph McElroy: I will talk to you about either they’re they’re actually going to do it this year now, we give you the thing so.

00:38:11.910 –> 00:38:22.800 Joseph McElroy: it’s a you know the fly fishing is is that they have this great museum and it’s built in a old barn a big barn so and so it’s kind of real rustic.

00:38:23.370 –> 00:38:41.700 Joseph McElroy: feel to it but it’s got many exhibits and education on on on fly fishing, and so what Mike was alluding to is cherokee which is right there near bryson city is famous for its fly fishing tournament and on and this year fly fishing is opening date is march 27.

00:38:43.410 –> 00:38:47.670 Joseph McElroy: And they’re going to be doing a tournament with a $20,000.

00:38:50.070 –> 00:39:04.740 Joseph McElroy: Price okay and it’s a $15 entry fee to dollar $17 for two days, and you can you’ll be you’ll be competing in the rivers of all the cherokee Indian reservation allison well as a call to Kuala boundary.

00:39:06.120 –> 00:39:14.340 Joseph McElroy: And there will be tagged fish and some other stocks with event and there will be, you can redeem them for cash prizes.

00:39:14.670 –> 00:39:22.830 Joseph McElroy: And it’s really it’s a really great fun event we have lots of fishing tournaments in the mountains, and this is sort of usually the first one of the season.

00:39:23.610 –> 00:39:37.170 Joseph McElroy: you’ll have to have a fishing license, but you can get that pretty quick so don’t miss that you know it’s spring is he going to be here, get out fishing get out hiking you know it’s a lot of fun.

00:39:38.400 –> 00:39:39.030 Joseph McElroy: So.

00:39:40.320 –> 00:39:50.430 Joseph McElroy: Other miscellaneous museums of the smoky mountain trains museum and it’s kind of collection of 7000 Lionel engines and cars and accessory Mike you went there you were telling me I haven’t been there.

00:39:50.520 –> 00:39:52.800 Mike Ogletree: yeah I went to the miniature one.

00:39:53.760 –> 00:39:54.960 Mike Ogletree: So the one you’re talking to.

00:39:56.670 –> 00:40:02.760 Mike Ogletree: yeah you know that’s I love that because you know that appeals to the child and me and that’s.

00:40:03.750 –> 00:40:11.400 Mike Ogletree: It does anybody like that who gets excited at model trains, then that’s the place to go because they’ve got.

00:40:12.270 –> 00:40:21.570 Mike Ogletree: Think i’ve got three different skills, you know they’ve got a really small and medium, then a big one, and it’s a big big warehouse.

00:40:22.050 –> 00:40:29.940 Mike Ogletree: And these change, they just one constantly and and you can again it’s one of those things that you could just spend the afternoon and they’re just.

00:40:30.420 –> 00:40:50.610 Mike Ogletree: watching all these trains go and what they do and what they look like and because they’re going fast and they’re covering some they’re covering a lot of ground in there, so it’s it’s definitely the best model train exhibit that i’ve ever seen, and i’ve seen the one in and.

00:40:51.120 –> 00:41:00.600 Joseph McElroy: And it’s and it’s you know it’s it’s home to it’s also part of the smoky mountain railroad the right there there’s also a smoky mountain, which is a tourist railroaded old authentic.

00:41:00.870 –> 00:41:07.830 Joseph McElroy: steam car things as first class engineering get dinners I get all sorts of great experiences, and I would recommend going there.

00:41:08.400 –> 00:41:09.030 Mike Ogletree: Oh yeah.

00:41:09.330 –> 00:41:13.770 Joseph McElroy: So I want to get a little bit into Celtic culture, because it ties into what mike’s doing.

00:41:14.310 –> 00:41:15.390 Mike Ogletree: guilty guilty.

00:41:15.750 –> 00:41:18.360 Joseph McElroy: guilty sorry Celtic culture.

00:41:19.560 –> 00:41:33.420 Joseph McElroy: And you know, and you know and and what my project is you know, there is a if you go to the mountains of North Carolina would you expect to come to a giant ship well.

00:41:34.260 –> 00:41:44.040 Joseph McElroy: We have a museum for the Titanic in pigeon forge yes, the Titanic, the one that sank and it’s a one of a kind passengers experience.

00:41:44.580 –> 00:41:57.240 Joseph McElroy: and actually what it feels to walk through the hallways and powers of the grand staircase and why is it related to the Celtic because 100 and.

00:41:57.810 –> 00:42:11.910 Joseph McElroy: celebrates the the world and remembers the hundred and 87 Irish passions or crew and we were bored the Titanic, and in fact March is is tribute to Irish and it’s.

00:42:12.720 –> 00:42:24.600 Joseph McElroy: And having all sorts of events going on there, and the other Celtic experience that Mike knows a lot about is that the Scottish tartans museum and heritage Center right.

00:42:24.780 –> 00:42:33.690 Joseph McElroy: Right offers a look into the origins history and developer tartans and specifically the devil development of killed, can you tell me a little bit about that Mike.

00:42:34.230 –> 00:42:50.310 Mike Ogletree: yeah yeah and it’s in Franklin North Carolina and it’s basically run by volunteers and there’s one guy there’s one main guy and his wife, who have been keeping it alive.

00:42:50.820 –> 00:43:01.890 Mike Ogletree: And this museum is quite unique because it’s the only museum is dedicated to the top 10 yeah I think in the world, but definitely.

00:43:02.490 –> 00:43:13.740 Mike Ogletree: Definitely in the US, you know it’s a it’s a natural museum very you can go in and they’ve got a little the main part of is like a store that you go through the store and the museum’s in the back.

00:43:14.220 –> 00:43:25.410 Mike Ogletree: And it goes through the whole history of Tartan and it tells you about the origins of the kilt, for instance, which was a lot of people.

00:43:27.000 –> 00:43:34.680 Mike Ogletree: Often, think of as being the thing that you see today when you see like the bagpipers dressed up and you think why that’s why kill.

00:43:35.280 –> 00:43:50.670 Mike Ogletree: it’s like, but if you go to the tattoo museum North Carolina you’ll find a completely different history of the killed, which they have documented and you’ve actually got all that the garments and.

00:43:51.240 –> 00:44:02.040 Mike Ogletree: In some cases they’ve got the equipment that was used to make these killed because they were an essential part of of nobleman and our warriors garb.

00:44:02.850 –> 00:44:03.420 Mike Ogletree: It was you.

00:44:03.510 –> 00:44:10.200 Mike Ogletree: could serve as a piece of clothing could serve as a as a bed is attained all kinds of things.

00:44:10.590 –> 00:44:32.130 Mike Ogletree: And depending on your rank you would have a different type of kilt and it wasn’t this dress that you would around yourself, it was this huge government, in some cases, you had to lie down and roll around in a specific pattern in order to get killed on so.

00:44:32.910 –> 00:44:33.510 Mike Ogletree: High ceiling.

00:44:33.930 –> 00:44:39.180 Joseph McElroy: So we’re gonna take a break we’ll finish that after we come back and we’ll talk about your your Celtic project.

00:44:39.240 –> 00:44:41.160 For the Mr all right.

00:46:59.400 –> 00:47:13.140 Joseph McElroy: howdy is Joseph Franklin mcilroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcast with my guest Mike ogletree Mike so we we’ve worked with that we worked with a Spartan Tartan museum to do the.

00:47:15.540 –> 00:47:23.760 Joseph McElroy: event last year right dinner for Robert Burns that was pretty guy great I saw that the presentation he came in, he brought in all those.

00:47:24.300 –> 00:47:36.000 Joseph McElroy: Pictures of different kinds of tartans and is extremely knowledgeable people to go out there, they find that that that speech on are the Miller motels gate Facebook page.

00:47:36.510 –> 00:47:41.130 Joseph McElroy: But it on a new project now right for St patrick’s day why don’t you tell us about that.

00:47:41.190 –> 00:47:47.040 Mike Ogletree: yeah it’s see patrick’s day I think it’s the 17th of the month, but.

00:47:48.330 –> 00:47:58.350 Mike Ogletree: You know I love Irish music and I lived in New York for a while and I was exposed to a lot of Irish music there because you can get but.

00:47:59.430 –> 00:48:08.610 Mike Ogletree: Here in in the mountains there’s a connection to Irish culture that goes back hundreds and hundreds of years and.

00:48:09.330 –> 00:48:23.640 Mike Ogletree: So I I managed to combine my love of Irish music and find a way to incorporate it into my Sunday afternoon fire safety conscious that we do here at the motel.

00:48:24.270 –> 00:48:33.300 Mike Ogletree: And because I always do something on St patrick’s day anyway to this year, what i’m what i’m doing, and then, of course, you know St Patrick.

00:48:33.720 –> 00:48:45.900 Mike Ogletree: I you you, you pointed me in a direction and I never knew but he’s Scottish he was born in a place called dumbarton which is just about maybe 30 miles north of where I come from the enemy so.

00:48:46.320 –> 00:48:55.740 Mike Ogletree: So see magic is the ultimate Scots Irish figure to talk about in the mountains, because so many of the people in the mountains and.

00:48:56.880 –> 00:49:11.340 Mike Ogletree: Scotch Irish descent, so I figured it would be a good opportunity to do a few Irish songs this Sunday because they’ll all be dedicated to St patrick’s day.

00:49:12.480 –> 00:49:15.840 Mike Ogletree: Irish music and all that and some of the songs that i’m doing.

00:49:17.250 –> 00:49:27.600 Mike Ogletree: it’s interesting when you do these traditional Irish songs how the message at it still resonates with the temperament of.

00:49:28.320 –> 00:49:47.190 Mike Ogletree: People that eat though they don’t live in Ireland or Scotland anymore, because they have some connection and says truly to somehow they’ve inherited that attitude that independent spirit that boisterousness that love of whiskey and, all things strong and.

00:49:49.170 –> 00:50:03.570 Mike Ogletree: But you know, and then in a smoky mountain it’s no different you know and because over here I don’t like to talk about politics but it’s that kind of independent spirit that.

00:50:04.530 –> 00:50:13.440 Mike Ogletree: brought a lot of the people into the mountains and that the pioneering spirit that made it possible for them to survive harsh and.

00:50:13.860 –> 00:50:25.080 Mike Ogletree: Terrible and horrific conditions that they had to endure in order to continue to live here in the mountains well that’s the same as as the spirit and the.

00:50:25.860 –> 00:50:37.290 Mike Ogletree: need is the Scotch in the Irish rebel against the English overlords, as it were, so the songs that I sing, for instance whiskey in the JAR it’s a song about.

00:50:37.650 –> 00:50:52.710 Mike Ogletree: rebellion against rich overlords who are mistreating their subjects was they were living high on the hog with lots of money, the tenant farmers and we’re eating dirt in portage and potatoes, you know, during a famine.

00:50:53.130 –> 00:50:53.490 Joseph McElroy: So.

00:50:53.730 –> 00:51:00.720 Mike Ogletree: And I mean that literally the eaten duck to keep their stomachs filled that’s why a lot of them emigrated but you know so.

00:51:01.830 –> 00:51:27.060 Mike Ogletree: that’s that’s really what my sure will try and bring bring out and and for me personally it’s who, that is a cult is as a newbie sublimated into a cultural expression there is music is you know art is portrayed as all this kind of stuff, in other words, we can leave all that.

00:51:28.290 –> 00:51:33.330 Mike Ogletree: rebellion and the violence and all that the actual fisticuffs.

00:51:33.750 –> 00:51:51.930 Mike Ogletree: It can easily be left behind, because the music, it still carries on the message I mean the songs i’m doing some of them are three or 400 years old, you know, so we don’t forget what we what we went through in order to get where we are, but we don’t have to keep fighting.

00:51:53.670 –> 00:51:57.600 Joseph McElroy: So we’re doing online too, so people can see it where they sit alone.

00:51:58.170 –> 00:52:08.400 Mike Ogletree: Well, you know the mega lot motel Facebook page and my own Facebook page, which is the black Scotsman.

00:52:08.940 –> 00:52:10.320 Mike Ogletree: And then, on my website.

00:52:10.950 –> 00:52:11.850 Joseph McElroy: With an ex yeah.

00:52:11.910 –> 00:52:18.780 Mike Ogletree: yeah the black Scotsman with an x and then the black scotsman.com which is my website and on YouTube do.

00:52:20.190 –> 00:52:24.780 Mike Ogletree: So you know it’s yeah it’s very available it’s just you know tune in and.

00:52:25.890 –> 00:52:29.850 Mike Ogletree: And let yourself be known because I get people from all over the world.

00:52:30.180 –> 00:52:39.870 Joseph McElroy: Well, thank you Mike Thank you very much, I appreciate you coming in and being my companion along on this experiment with the designing a show on the fly.

00:52:42.690 –> 00:52:46.740 Joseph McElroy: And I enjoyed it very much and I want you know we’re going to have.

00:52:48.480 –> 00:52:54.930 Joseph McElroy: Will tomorrow we’ll put up or even today we’ll put it up on gateway to the smokies dot find a link to my.

00:52:56.190 –> 00:53:03.240 Joseph McElroy: Facebook, so that you can go and and watch the watch his show on Sunday what time Sunday.

00:53:03.510 –> 00:53:04.320 Mike Ogletree: See o’clock.

00:53:04.620 –> 00:53:06.600 Joseph McElroy: Three o’clock alright cool so.

00:53:06.660 –> 00:53:08.880 Mike Ogletree: See you have to learn, of course.

00:53:09.030 –> 00:53:13.890 Joseph McElroy: All right, yes, so now i’m going to do it my some of my promotion of course.

00:53:14.610 –> 00:53:23.760 Joseph McElroy: Imagine a place evocative of motor cortex of the past year, modern and vibrant with a chic appalachian field, a place for adventure and for relaxation.

00:53:24.210 –> 00:53:32.850 Joseph McElroy: Imagine a place where you can fish in a mountain heritage trout stream grill the catch on fire and eat accompanied by fine wine or craft beers.

00:53:33.240 –> 00:53:44.370 Joseph McElroy: Imagine a place of the old time music and world cultural sounds, there is no other place like the middle or motel and Maggie valley North Carolina or the great smoky mountains National Park.

00:53:44.700 –> 00:53:54.810 Joseph McElroy: We are the starting point for all the adventures, and some of these the mountain have to offer your smoky mountain adventure starts with where you stay middle alert motel back calm.

00:53:56.790 –> 00:54:05.490 Joseph McElroy: I thank you all for being here, I want to mention that a lot of these listings that we talked about like museums and things are found on smokies adventure that’s.

00:54:06.060 –> 00:54:19.980 Joseph McElroy: sm okay I yes adventure calm, which is a site, we run with listings of all sorts of things to do in the mountain places to stay and pieces to eat places to go visit attractions outdoor adventures.

00:54:20.730 –> 00:54:28.290 Joseph McElroy: Extensive listings from the all of the smoky mountains, and you know, including the Tennessee and then North Carolina sides.

00:54:28.710 –> 00:54:40.890 Joseph McElroy: And we cover that great, and we would cover the town small towns in gatlinburg fishing for see reveal towns of cherokee whereas valley Maggie valley and bryson city, as well as even others in the surrounding area and there’s hiking trail maps.

00:54:41.940 –> 00:54:49.800 Joseph McElroy: waterfall maps interactive map so it’s a great place to go and we are part of where traveler.

00:54:50.400 –> 00:55:00.210 Joseph McElroy: We have a We run the great smoky mountain services section on where traveler calm where traveler is the world’s premier name and travel publishing.

00:55:00.510 –> 00:55:08.550 Joseph McElroy: From magazines and books to maps and comprehensive digital content, where traveler gives travelers everything they need for a local perspective.

00:55:08.880 –> 00:55:23.160 Joseph McElroy: Each year 246 million travelers chair chest where traveler for up to date, information and where to go and what to see and nearly 100 cities worldwide and now one big geographic area, called the great smoky mountains.

00:55:23.880 –> 00:55:29.730 Joseph McElroy: We have local content local guides local concierge and there’s over 50,000 things to do.

00:55:30.960 –> 00:55:38.430 Joseph McElroy: I want to thank talk nyc talk radio dot nyc network for hosting my show.

00:55:38.850 –> 00:55:51.330 Joseph McElroy: there’s a great show after this call rediscovering New York, I would advise you, if you’re listening live to stay on to hear that show, then you have the best of both worlds, the country and then the big city that follows enjoy.

00:55:52.170 –> 00:56:05.730 Joseph McElroy: Your show next week with another great show about the smokies, I think, where we delving into more interesting music from an expert in the area, so thank you very much and bye and bye for now.

Our guest in this episode is Keith Garnes he leads hikes for Smoky Mountain Outdoors and is the hiking director for Friends of Pickett State Park in Middle Tennessee. He lives in Gatlinburg.

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Tune in for this fun conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.

Today’s focus will be hiking in the Smokies. Joseph discusses spring in the Smokies, which consists of great weather and fun activities. Wildflowers are the most iconic part of the Smokies in the spring, with the park containing a wider variety than any other national park. Surprisingly, car shows are a popular event in the park in the spring. Unsurprisingly though, fishing is a big source of entertainment, with fly fishing being a popular variant. Another activity is hiking, something today’s guest does for a living. Keith Garnes leads hikes for the Smoky Mountains Outdoors. He used to come to the Smokies during the summers and fell in love. Joseph and Keith trade hiking stories, noting the memorable wildlife in the park. Keith discusses the challenges he faces hiking in the Smokies. A recent problem is finding seclusion, as visitation has gone up recently. Next up is hike prep, on top of the essentials, prepping for rain is always necessary as a dry day in the Smokies can turn rainy out of nowhere.

Discussing the NC side of the Smokies, Keith talks about his favorite hike on this side, Andrews bald. Balds are mountain summits, a good place to go and have a picnic. On the Tennessee side, Mount Le Conte is the location of Keith’s favorite hike. On these trails, snakes and bears are common sights. The snakes are easily scared off though, nothing to be scared about. Birds are also a great sight in the Smokies. When seeking solitude in the park, Laurel falls is one to avoid, or to hike early in the morning as it is one of the more popular trails. Keith goes on to discuss more trails to avoid and also mentions how many don’t venture all the way down trails, so as you go further down you find more solitude. Keith and Joseph discuss their stealth hikes.

Joseph and Keith discuss the Appalachian trails. For many of the campgrounds in the park, visitors need permits, but some tent sites are unpermitted as they are slightly less popular. As a designated wilderness area, you are not allowed to hike with dogs on all but two trails. In the park, crime is not a worry, especially along the more popular trails. Many trails lead to old settlements and cabins, Keith discusses some of these historic sites on the Tennessee side of the park. Moving on, Keith and Joseph talk about the road to nowhere and trails to see beautiful wildflowers and waterfalls.

Keith explains Pigeon Forge and its family-oriented nature. Pigeon Forge hosts an award-winning international festival. During Wilderness Wildlife week, seminars such as bear safety are put on.

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00:00:39.210 –> 00:00:39.960 Joseph McElroy: howdy.

00:00:40.470 –> 00:00:45.780 Joseph McElroy: Thanks for joining us on this week’s episode of gateway to the smokies podcast.

00:00:46.740 –> 00:00:54.420 Joseph McElroy: This podcast is about America’s most visited National Park, the great smokies national park and the surrounding towns.

00:00:54.750 –> 00:01:03.960 Joseph McElroy: This area is filled with ancient natural beauty a deep storied history and a rich mountain culture that we will explore with weekly episodes.

00:01:04.650 –> 00:01:11.580 Joseph McElroy: I am Joseph Franklin mcilroy a man of the world, but also a deep roots and those mountains.

00:01:12.360 –> 00:01:19.920 Joseph McElroy: My family has lived in the great smokies for over 200 years my business is in travel, but my heart is in culture.

00:01:20.790 –> 00:01:35.460 Joseph McElroy: Today we’re talking about hiking in the smokies My guess is Keith guards who leads hikes for the wilderness wildlife week and is the hiking director for friends of pickett state park and middle Tennessee and he lives in gatlinburg.

00:01:36.210 –> 00:01:57.330 Joseph McElroy: But let’s first talk about spring in the smokies spring is one of the most popular times to visit the smoky mountains, when the last traces of winter get a smelter way the smokies offer and an idyllic and beautiful weather and greenery and a variety of fun seasonal events and activities.

00:01:58.590 –> 00:02:09.150 Joseph McElroy: The start of spring means at dollywood is back for another year of family fun and when it opens doors in mid march it kicks off the seasons, with its festival of nations.

00:02:09.600 –> 00:02:16.080 Joseph McElroy: This popular celebration brings entertainers from all around the world to the park for a series of free shows.

00:02:16.440 –> 00:02:29.490 Joseph McElroy: You can expect to see dancers, in Africa acrobats from act Africa, a traditional Ecuadorian band from the Andes mountains, a steel pan orchestra from the Caribbean and many more performers.

00:02:30.780 –> 00:02:36.870 Joseph McElroy: And of course dollywood has other things going on, through the spring, including their beloved Barbecue and bluegrass festival.

00:02:38.040 –> 00:02:54.000 Joseph McElroy: Wild flowers, are the most iconic part of the smokies in the spray the great smoky mountains National Park is home to over 1500 types of flowering plants, more than any other national park in the country.

00:02:54.630 –> 00:03:01.080 Joseph McElroy: And they these beautiful blooms are dazzling from March until do so something not to miss.

00:03:02.040 –> 00:03:12.060 Joseph McElroy: Car shows, believe it or not, are a big spring perdition in the smokies hundreds of classic car owners come to places like pigeon forge and Maggie Valley.

00:03:12.330 –> 00:03:19.470 Joseph McElroy: To show off their beautiful hot rods motorcycles and other vehicles it’s a lot of fun and even if you don’t have a.

00:03:20.070 –> 00:03:30.030 Joseph McElroy: Car Vo and it’s great to go to one of these events, because they have lots of booze doing all sorts of cultural artifacts and food and entertainment for the kids.

00:03:31.020 –> 00:03:41.010 Joseph McElroy: it’s a it’s a grand old time mag go the Maggie value festival grounds calm to find out about all the all the festivals coming in the spring, because we have a bunch of them coming there.

00:03:41.850 –> 00:03:50.820 Joseph McElroy: That are dealing with a lot of car show some art shows, and then spring is also an awesome time to come, fly fishing in the smoky mountains.

00:03:51.630 –> 00:04:07.440 Joseph McElroy: Every fish that swims the smokies regions will be very active, and that includes brown trout native trout and rainbow trout and everything else and fly fishing the smokies is there is is where as the best way to catch them so.

00:04:08.520 –> 00:04:09.120 Joseph McElroy: You.

00:04:10.290 –> 00:04:18.810 Joseph McElroy: it’s great in both Tennessee and North Carolina did you see the end you see the highest number of crowds cut all year round in the stream in this in the spring.

00:04:19.650 –> 00:04:32.940 Joseph McElroy: And cherokee is especially interesting because they offer a trophy fly fishing only section, which is where the where the where the trout is measured in pounds not inches it’s a it’s a different kind of.

00:04:33.390 –> 00:04:40.110 Joseph McElroy: way to catch it and it stocks basically the cherokee stocks, the Raven forward and the old code look the River river with.

00:04:40.470 –> 00:04:53.940 Joseph McElroy: rainbow Brown and brook trout and also golden trout and Donaldson strain rainbow trout that’s the hardest fighting rainbow trout in the world, so it’s a special treat in the spring and spring.

00:04:55.530 –> 00:04:59.730 Joseph McElroy: And they it’s worthwhile going there and they have they have they have a lot of different.

00:05:00.480 –> 00:05:17.940 Joseph McElroy: tournaments going on in the cherokee and the surrounding areas for fly fishing the smoke smokies and of course hiking is a huge past time in the smoky mountains, which brings me to my guest Keith Barnes our expert on hiking in the smoking is hi Keith.

00:05:18.450 –> 00:05:19.830 Keith: hello, how are you today, Joseph.

00:05:20.370 –> 00:05:26.730 Joseph McElroy: i’m doing pretty good yeah so so how did you get into hiking in the smokies.

00:05:27.690 –> 00:05:38.550 Keith: Oh, my goodness that one right off the BAT well my dad was from Cleveland Ohio and my mom was from cosby Tennessee, so I would come down and spend summers in the smokies and.

00:05:39.600 –> 00:05:56.610 Keith: It was just so different than Cleveland Okay, it was really entertaining to see the trails and the different wildlife and obviously the plant life was prolific so i’m just being here during the summers back in the from the late 60s, so I fell in love with hiking in the slums.

00:05:57.270 –> 00:06:02.310 Joseph McElroy: What was your, what do you remember your first you know height that you never left her head.

00:06:03.090 –> 00:06:10.590 Keith: Yes, I do it was in the outline section and borders flat and just an easy trail along the river and where you can.

00:06:10.890 –> 00:06:24.240 Keith: kind of leave dad mom and go over and I never forget, we saw an indigo snake of blue indigo snake, which is very rare and that kind of like set in stone my love of the outdoors and hiking spots.

00:06:24.600 –> 00:06:26.400 Joseph McElroy: Okay cool well that’s good I mean you.

00:06:27.510 –> 00:06:28.530 Joseph McElroy: know I can remember.

00:06:29.550 –> 00:06:41.970 Joseph McElroy: You know my parents taking me yeah we had a lot of hiking trails in in the in the in haywood county but there was one that would go across the mountain tops.

00:06:42.900 –> 00:06:46.800 Joseph McElroy: nearest you know I can’t i’m a hard time drawn a name but.

00:06:47.730 –> 00:06:57.570 Joseph McElroy: We would we would hike or a lot of times we’d ride horses, you know, and that was, and I can I can remember vividly this first experiences those mountains.

00:06:57.840 –> 00:07:04.110 Joseph McElroy: You know the vistas are just incredible for children, it really you know sticks in your in your memory and when you see some.

00:07:04.440 –> 00:07:18.900 Joseph McElroy: wildlife and you know just all of a sudden surprise you don’t really forget it, you remember a deer coming out the first time when you have never seen a deer and elk for the first time, and you saw an elk it’s it’s worthwhile to create those memories for children.

00:07:20.520 –> 00:07:27.270 Joseph McElroy: So you also a motorcyclist right I forgot to mention motorcycle is a big spring time they right.

00:07:27.390 –> 00:07:43.050 Keith: right next to them a little bit with the cars, so I didn’t quite chime in right, then, but definitely motorcycle touring in the peripheral of the smoky mountains is outstanding and understand over and you’re part of the world, you have the wheel street time motorcycle museum.

00:07:43.350 –> 00:07:43.920 Joseph McElroy: Oh yeah.

00:07:44.070 –> 00:07:45.450 Keith: Like the red glare and that.

00:07:45.630 –> 00:07:48.180 Keith: That should be on every motorcyclist bucket list.

00:07:48.330 –> 00:07:54.360 Joseph McElroy: I know I totally I totally dropped the ball and forgetting about motorcycling in the mountains in the spring it’s also another big thing.

00:07:54.360 –> 00:07:54.720 So.

00:07:57.060 –> 00:08:03.930 Joseph McElroy: yeah so let’s get back to hiking so tell me what do you find challenging about hiking this smokies.

00:08:06.690 –> 00:08:09.090 Keith: Well anymore it’s fine enough seclusion.

00:08:10.620 –> 00:08:11.670 Keith: rails wisely.

00:08:12.000 –> 00:08:18.000 Keith: They, for example, November the park visitation was up 14% and.

00:08:20.640 –> 00:08:30.360 Keith: So the numbers overall are our little skewed but recently finding a trail secluded trail is an art and I have some suggestions.

00:08:30.780 –> 00:08:32.190 Joseph McElroy: I was just reading.

00:08:33.270 –> 00:08:42.480 Joseph McElroy: That this year had the most visits ever like over 12 million people, visited the smoky mountains great smoky mountain National Park.

00:08:43.110 –> 00:08:54.900 Joseph McElroy: Right this year right, and you know I don’t want to scare people off because you know we’ve had that we’ve had huge amounts of visitors, for a long, long time that’s always been the most.

00:08:55.500 –> 00:09:10.680 Joseph McElroy: visited national park and you don’t understand the scale of this park it’s just it’s it’s it’s unbelievable and there’s areas are in the in the great smokies that probably have only maybe haven’t even had somebody step on the ground there.

00:09:11.850 –> 00:09:26.490 Joseph McElroy: So it is tremendously so discovering stuff if you’re of that mind is still very much possible, but there are there are the published and popular trails that are well documented things.

00:09:27.630 –> 00:09:33.960 Joseph McElroy: That during certain peak seasons, are a little bit crowded though never overwhelmingly crowded, would you say.

00:09:34.500 –> 00:09:43.830 Keith: Yes, like, for example, if you were to go to battle falls off the Roi Ford motor nature trail at the Roi for watershed few people go 100 yards passing.

00:09:44.160 –> 00:09:53.070 Keith: And same thing with Laurel falls a popular heights so popular they had to like blacktop it so you so there’s a red flag on stroke little lords right.

00:09:53.970 –> 00:10:08.040 Keith: To Laurel you go pass it and there’s a virgin for it’s just three eighths of a mile past it and total solid team so just go a little bit to the popular points and just a little bit beyond will give you give you an experience that so worthy.

00:10:08.490 –> 00:10:16.620 Joseph McElroy: yeah because most people most of the tourists are there because they don’t they don’t they don’t go off the trails they don’t go and do any kind of.

00:10:17.010 –> 00:10:29.790 Joseph McElroy: Things past the designated areas, but you know if you do a little bit of and have a little bit of adventure and your soul, you can discover wonderful new pristine areas and that’s what I really love.

00:10:31.350 –> 00:10:36.570 Joseph McElroy: yeah so what what what preparation wisdom, do you have for us.

00:10:37.260 –> 00:10:50.070 Keith: Oh there’s a lot of printed materials on how to prepare for a hike some of them go overboard like you know flashlights which i’m not against a flashlight don’t not take one, but you know if your cell phones charge you’ve got a flashlight you know but.

00:10:50.580 –> 00:10:59.130 Keith: And also another this one’s odd but spray and the smokies all the water runs downhill and there’s there’s knacks and fly in front of your face.

00:10:59.370 –> 00:11:09.240 Keith: That you can’t do anything about it, no amount of bug spray is going to keep those guys away, but the mosquitoes basically aren’t a big issue, so you don’t have to overdo the bug spray.

00:11:09.570 –> 00:11:17.730 Keith: What you do need to compensate for is that it could rain in any given moment, like if you’re looking at a knoxville forecasts are you going to nashville.

00:11:18.030 –> 00:11:29.730 Keith: You might mess lead into a dryer day, then you might find like cloud first and then sort of like Poncho or something to deal with rain and Ivan carry an umbrella.

00:11:29.850 –> 00:11:30.270 One that.

00:11:32.760 –> 00:11:35.970 Joseph McElroy: You just did, there was a conspiracy as a conspiratorial look.

00:11:39.270 –> 00:11:42.570 Keith: I had an umbrella in my pack, and then I looked pretty smart.

00:11:42.600 –> 00:11:43.020 Joseph McElroy: So that.

00:11:43.440 –> 00:11:55.800 Keith: that’s a tip there so and do carry a pack with items don’t think you can carry things in your hand extra water is also a big big item and snacks so common sense items go a long way and be ready for a clovers.

00:11:56.250 –> 00:11:58.920 Joseph McElroy: And what about fitness levels as their as.

00:12:00.300 –> 00:12:05.130 Joseph McElroy: Their different trails is there is there any recommendations like you know.

00:12:06.060 –> 00:12:14.250 Keith: i’ll tie that into the 12 and a half million people, you said, visited the part and that like 16% of them see it through the windshield of their car.

00:12:14.610 –> 00:12:30.990 Keith: that’s kind of a shame, so there are the one for 41 in little river road there are these quiet walkways which are little like third mile hikes several of them are Ada have a plan approved or what have you.

00:12:32.010 –> 00:12:43.470 Keith: And so you can do like a hike and various footwear, I mean i’m not trying to tell you to go hiking and flip flops, but they are level trails of my taking their mountain stream and they can match the whole family’s fitness level.

00:12:43.860 –> 00:12:50.730 Keith: And several have benches and chaos for information, so I would look for a quiet walkway while you’re driving through the park.

00:12:51.000 –> 00:13:01.440 Keith: And then people that want to find a challenging hike it’s no problem, a lot of times I look at a map and I always give myself two miles a two hours to do a mile in the park.

00:13:02.460 –> 00:13:02.580 Keith: or.

00:13:05.400 –> 00:13:09.660 Joseph McElroy: Is there is there measures of how challenging trails are.

00:13:09.930 –> 00:13:19.020 Keith: Yes, they do have they do have one perfect I was just looking at angie’s ball, one of my favorite hikes to recommend it was a 5.2 and rated moderate.

00:13:19.350 –> 00:13:36.060 Keith: So it must have they have a one to 10 scale and and to me that’s a difficult moderate trail so so whoever’s grading this is using a curve that’s pretty fixed, so I would always take what’s recommended and and maybe respected.

00:13:36.780 –> 00:13:43.560 Joseph McElroy: Alright, so when we come back we’ll talk more about hiking in the smokies and and what are your favorite trails.

00:13:46.530 –> 00:13:51.120 Keith: Radio nyc www talk radio dot nyc.

00:16:42.690 –> 00:17:02.940 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin mcilroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcast with my guest Keith guards so key you know I uh i’m on the North Carolina side of the smokies, and so I will start out asking you what is your favorite North Carolina hi.

00:17:03.810 –> 00:17:09.570 Keith: Oh good one good one, it would definitely be Andrews ball, which brings up balls in the smokies.

00:17:10.110 –> 00:17:27.690 Keith: lot of the balls have grown up since the 1930s, when the park was formed and there’s two balls that they maintain to the 1930 standards and one is Andrews ball, the highest ball in the park and the other is Gregory bald which is kind of a remote ball out of kate’s cove a very.

00:17:27.750 –> 00:17:31.890 Joseph McElroy: Similar to do, can I better have just asked me, can you explain what a ball is.

00:17:32.070 –> 00:17:45.240 Keith: Thank you there’s two types of balls in the market grassy ball which these Andrews and Gregory are grassy balls and then there’s like heath balls which are like low shrubbery where they.

00:17:45.840 –> 00:17:57.480 Keith: They kind of just have one type of plant that look like a model culture from a view or model type plant life, and so the grassy balls are the ones that are encroaching.

00:17:58.290 –> 00:18:06.120 Keith: They have to go up there and pull out about every five years and clear off the growth of the forest coming on them to keep them at their historical.

00:18:06.780 –> 00:18:15.720 Keith: levels and Andrews ball being the highest baldwin park has has the only carnivorous plant in the park it’s a sundin carnivorous plant.

00:18:16.020 –> 00:18:24.450 Keith: And years ago I found where they they protected it and i’ve gone back and can’t find the silly things but there’s carnivorous plants on anthony’s ball, I can.

00:18:25.050 –> 00:18:27.180 Joseph McElroy: wow how’d you get there.

00:18:27.630 –> 00:18:32.190 Keith: Well it’s up from cleveland’s Dome which takes everybody to the highest point in the park.

00:18:33.000 –> 00:18:43.650 Keith: Which payments Dome is the highest point in Tennessee and it’s on the border, which has a height deployments Dome which is famous but from from that parking lot you go down hill.

00:18:44.250 –> 00:19:02.970 Keith: towards it and it’s a battle it’s a battle 1.7 mile hike out to it and it’s it’s about 5800 foot and has a grassy view you’re totally in North Carolina at this point, and you can look into Fontana lake and off into the North Carolina that links from there.

00:19:03.690 –> 00:19:05.820 Joseph McElroy: cool and what was the other ball he mentioned he loved.

00:19:06.180 –> 00:19:08.490 Keith: A Gregory that’s famous for the zillions.

00:19:10.050 –> 00:19:12.120 Keith: yeah so uh later in the year hike.

00:19:13.320 –> 00:19:19.860 Keith: Long trails to that one that one’s more challenging Andrews is more accessible and gregory’s more remote and they’re both.

00:19:21.150 –> 00:19:31.530 Keith: Gregory being above kate’s co have had a lot of animals graze on it back in the years some other balls are spence field and silos bald in silos balls grown over for the most part, now.

00:19:32.130 –> 00:19:36.750 Joseph McElroy: So the bulls are good place to go hike to then have a picnic on the top of the mountains right.

00:19:37.110 –> 00:19:39.180 Keith: i’ll tell you what Andrews sure is.

00:19:39.210 –> 00:19:43.260 Joseph McElroy: For sure, and how do you get to the to the Gregory bold.

00:19:43.770 –> 00:19:48.180 Keith: you’ll brennan he’s advocates cove and I think it’s Hannah Ridge, a couple other.

00:19:48.480 –> 00:19:59.580 Keith: Regions to get out to it it’s I wouldn’t recommend that for a family hike that’s for your durable people it’s like a 10 mile round trip, whereas i’m going down the answers by will only be about three and a half, so.

00:19:59.640 –> 00:20:03.570 Joseph McElroy: So that’s when I take my my twins on i’m a two and a half year old.

00:20:03.570 –> 00:20:05.490 Keith: twins yeah yeah.

00:20:06.210 –> 00:20:06.960 Keith: picnic basket.

00:20:07.800 –> 00:20:09.510 Joseph McElroy: basket and gelei on a blanket a.

00:20:09.510 –> 00:20:10.470 Keith: backpack do you got.

00:20:11.460 –> 00:20:16.650 Joseph McElroy: I probably have to put one of those carry things on there and they’re not quite ready for a mile walk.

00:20:17.250 –> 00:20:24.180 Keith: yeah it’s it’s worth it, though in that out the altitude of that will get you going down to 5800 feet, so you know.

00:20:24.240 –> 00:20:36.210 Joseph McElroy: yeah cool so we talked about the north Carolina side, I give fer fer fer time to the tennessee’s i’d, what is your favorite types on the Tennessee side.

00:20:36.570 –> 00:20:39.420 Keith: Well, you know what mount look con is perhaps the most.

00:20:40.140 –> 00:20:48.330 Keith: Famous mountain in the East, I know that’s hard to say but statistically it’s the highest mountain above its base in the East because bow mitchell’s higher.

00:20:48.600 –> 00:20:58.110 Keith: But it’s not lower so so what kind of has a lot of accolades and to me the best all around trail in the state of Tennessee is alum Cape trail.

00:20:58.620 –> 00:21:08.970 Keith: which has several name features along it like it goes along the river styx, which is a great start goes to arch lock which the smokies for all its grander only has one.

00:21:09.420 –> 00:21:18.240 Keith: arch on a trail, and then the trail passes through it in fact the trails forever improve the steps through it it’s really we’re seeing if you haven’t seen a few years.

00:21:18.690 –> 00:21:27.390 Keith: And then it goes up to like inspiration point and then alum cave and then passers gracie pulpit and then you have the satellite mean has all this.

00:21:28.170 –> 00:21:35.940 Keith: history of hiking points along the double steps they took out the double steps of trails forever, but I still call it that you go.

00:21:36.300 –> 00:21:46.350 Keith: Cross a grassy slide and then below the cliff tops in the end up on because it’s the shortest child Telecom, which has a year lodge on top of it that’s a season, a lodge.

00:21:46.980 –> 00:21:57.090 Keith: And they have a winner caretaker that takes care of the lodge during the offseason which adds a glamour job now with the Internet and cell phone lots from on top of the time.

00:21:57.870 –> 00:22:09.660 Joseph McElroy: What you know you when you when you’re when you’re hiking these trails and I mentioned a little bit you see wildlife, what is the most besides, you know the standard rabbits and the Romans and things like that, what is the most common.

00:22:11.190 –> 00:22:14.880 Joseph McElroy: Bigger animals, you might see alone these trails.

00:22:15.000 –> 00:22:20.940 Keith: What from limited gatlinburg i’ve got a whole section on my phone called snakes and bears.

00:22:22.770 –> 00:22:39.180 Keith: bears can be living even up high because they’ll go up high perfect, sometimes even close close Gregory because there’s like cherry trees and things that are growing so much a blackberries along the side of the trail and they’re just just like going on in for dinner.

00:22:39.660 –> 00:22:46.110 Keith: Brain what so they’ll go up high during the summer and then come down low are there a problem with the little cabins.

00:22:46.740 –> 00:22:57.660 Keith: You know, during the the field shoulder seasons, I should say, but here’s a definitely it I you don’t see a lot of snakes eat scare them off pretty well, so I wouldn’t want to have anybody feared about a snake.

00:22:58.860 –> 00:23:00.030 Keith: birds are going to see.

00:23:00.480 –> 00:23:05.970 Keith: The Balkans, the locals call Cox and so good burning and the party with the.

00:23:06.660 –> 00:23:16.830 Joseph McElroy: Will burnings everything now in the mountains, I got I think they got more species in mountains and sort of a geographic area that anywhere in the world right close to it.

00:23:17.250 –> 00:23:22.740 Keith: Yes, it’s a smokies are a biosphere reserve it’s really a claim highly.

00:23:22.770 –> 00:23:26.130 Joseph McElroy: How do you see do you get to see the elk often on the trails.

00:23:26.280 –> 00:23:28.140 Keith: that’s a North Carolina site they.

00:23:29.820 –> 00:23:36.300 Keith: give you they haven’t we don’t quite have the cattle lucci type environment as much.

00:23:36.480 –> 00:23:39.000 Keith: yeah well so know that you got you.

00:23:39.570 –> 00:23:42.480 Joseph McElroy: Definitely on those one another time we’ll.

00:23:42.540 –> 00:23:52.380 Joseph McElroy: Get in depth into the some of the specific trail, so we have some really good wildlife, like the elk on the North Carolina so I imagine Tennessee has its own flavor that.

00:23:53.700 –> 00:24:04.710 Joseph McElroy: You know, when I was growing up, he you know you’d see Fox and you know and and mountain mountain lens, what are the bobcats you see.

00:24:04.770 –> 00:24:05.640 Keith: Oh yes, yes.

00:24:05.700 –> 00:24:06.870 Joseph McElroy: they’ll see those yeah.

00:24:08.250 –> 00:24:08.880 Keith: I love.

00:24:09.720 –> 00:24:15.690 Keith: watching my yeah i’ve got the fox stories, but no and look man this bobcats if they don’t want you to see him that.

00:24:17.100 –> 00:24:19.110 Keith: you’re lucky to see those I know.

00:24:20.130 –> 00:24:24.810 Joseph McElroy: Well, you do, you mentioned that the kids get a little bit crowded.

00:24:25.980 –> 00:24:37.440 Joseph McElroy: So you know, and while we want to emphasize it doesn’t get so crowded that you can’t go to any of these trails why don’t you just tell us which ones, to avoid if we’re wanting to just be like buyers, though.

00:24:38.430 –> 00:24:56.910 Keith: You know Laurel falls is a great destination, that has like I say that they paved it it’s you so much, so I would avoid that one or try it early in the morning, you know I mean people go to pancake pantry in the morning, and you can freeze on a trail if you’re at 7am or you know.

00:24:57.060 –> 00:24:58.440 Keith: So there are ways around it.

00:24:59.100 –> 00:25:15.210 Keith: And like I say there’s different types of trails where the trial ends at a destination or it goes beyond it in Laurel faults goes on up to code mountain and the trail leads a proud behind just past the waterfall so that’s another way bridal falls can be.

00:25:16.260 –> 00:25:22.380 Keith: busy, which is on the warrior forum know motor nature trail on another trial at The con brushing mountain.

00:25:22.830 –> 00:25:31.260 Keith: And, once again, if you go past rattle falls itself and try to get up to brush mountain or go beyond it at all you’ll find solid team.

00:25:31.560 –> 00:25:37.470 Keith: And that’s the trouble that they take the llamas up the mantle conference season, so it has its own little tourist.

00:25:38.130 –> 00:25:50.580 Keith: You know people like to take pictures of the llamas and they actually pass underneath bravo falls trail so they’re all those and proud for that they used to do every Monday Wednesday and Friday when the season is open on the pot.

00:25:51.180 –> 00:25:56.760 Joseph McElroy: My kids would love that work their current favorite is a llama llama red pajamas book.

00:26:01.710 –> 00:26:05.580 Joseph McElroy: I mean you mentioned briefly some about step spelled pipes, what does that mean.

00:26:06.030 –> 00:26:12.510 Keith: ooh Okay, the first off all the heights I recommend staying on trails i’m not trying to get anybody to go off trip.

00:26:13.200 –> 00:26:27.300 Keith: That said, that caveat there’s a trail very there’s three watersheds come off the more cycle of con and one is waiting for that I spoke with a lot about and the other one concrete but there’s the middle of called baskin pre.

00:26:27.750 –> 00:26:38.790 Keith: And, and if you go towards the Rainbow false trailhead just passed there before you get on the warning for motor nature trail there’s a way to go to baskin pre falls.

00:26:39.240 –> 00:26:55.320 Keith: And it is absolutely gorgeous it is no sun hits the bottom of it, it looks like your IRB has been Moss all around it’s been a 45 footer and is kind of in a box Canyon so it’s very photogenic in few people would be there and it’s actually a lovely height.

00:26:56.010 –> 00:26:59.400 Joseph McElroy: wow cool is there is there more of these sort of so so pikes.

00:26:59.790 –> 00:27:10.890 Keith: yeah i’m operates growth which is getting away from a waterfall but it’s man manager and ball trail, and it is a some of the largest virgin forest.

00:27:11.130 –> 00:27:17.460 Keith: area on the Tennessee side used to be an Indian PowerPoint where Indians would go and worship there because the trees were.

00:27:18.180 –> 00:27:34.710 Keith: So gigantic and is situated in like special like triangles and such so it’s a it’s a loop that’s off of an easy travel up to that point so all brights bro definitely Google that one and try to find it it’s it’s a worthy destination.

00:27:35.460 –> 00:27:43.290 Joseph McElroy: I don’t know any official North Carolina side still caught spell hikes but I know some private still hikes and you’re not.

00:27:43.290 –> 00:27:45.900 Joseph McElroy: supposed to go on that are really fantastic yeah.

00:27:46.170 –> 00:27:56.130 Joseph McElroy: Somebody can call me up and find out about it, but I promise i’ll get in North Carolina guy on here and talking about it or girl, for that matter, to talk about it, they will have you both on here to have a competition.

00:27:56.760 –> 00:28:02.010 Keith: Right okay well I can’t divulge our secret hikes like that, because I have to live with these people.

00:28:04.740 –> 00:28:06.810 Keith: These stealth about this stealth so.

00:28:06.840 –> 00:28:11.610 Joseph McElroy: Okay, so we come back we’ll talk about some of the more well known trails like the appalachian trail.

00:28:12.660 –> 00:28:13.560 Joseph McElroy: Talk to you soon.

00:31:04.380 –> 00:31:16.620 Joseph McElroy: hey it’s Joseph mcilroy from the gateway to the smokies podcast back with my guest keep bar or gardens talking about hiking in the smokies so key.

00:31:17.760 –> 00:31:31.350 Joseph McElroy: You know, you know there’s some long trails ago go through the smokies I think the Benton mackay trail the mountains, to the sea trail, but I guess the granddaddy is the appalachian trail, what do you know about these trails worth walk walking on.

00:31:32.070 –> 00:31:41.880 Keith: Oh yes, appalachian trail travels about 69 miles through the park from Fontana damn all the way to davenport gap with.

00:31:42.450 –> 00:31:51.660 Keith: Oh gosh newfound gap kind of the midpoint were for the hikers take breaks and then shuttle down to gatlinburg or cherokee you know for restock and.

00:31:52.230 –> 00:32:06.120 Keith: Definitely there’s a lot of accidents affect the cleamons Dome one of the most famous points observation points in the park is on the appalachian trail and there’s several shelters along it that that the appalachian thru hikers and call them.

00:32:07.350 –> 00:32:18.840 Keith: Now navigate to to journey through the park they’re usually about five miles apart, often hikers will skip one and do about 10 miles a day through the park and the.

00:32:19.590 –> 00:32:35.250 Keith: easiest one to actually look at is a month Collins shelter, which is on the cleamons don’t road it’s like only like three quarters of a mile off the roads in kind of like pop in there and check it out, you ever wanted to see a shelter, the rest of them are pretty remote, though.

00:32:36.150 –> 00:32:40.920 Joseph McElroy: So those are good for people that want to sort of have a camping experience and do some hiking right.

00:32:41.340 –> 00:32:49.560 Keith: They are permitted though you get a permit so so they’re kind of like spontaneous is a little difficult but definitely there.

00:32:50.610 –> 00:32:59.820 Keith: You know, like you could hit the boy scout camp or group that’s going through or you know you never know what you’re going to find a shelter and it’s always an adventure in itself.

00:32:59.940 –> 00:33:06.120 Joseph McElroy: There are other back woods camps good campgrounds right that people go through or all of them permitted.

00:33:06.600 –> 00:33:23.640 Keith: You don’t want a lot of you know, good good question on that some of the 10 sites are unpermitted because they’re just so so unpopular are not over overly us, but even the more popular 10 sites have a permit system just just because if they’re overcrowded they hurt the ecosystem.

00:33:24.210 –> 00:33:27.360 Joseph McElroy: Alright cool well it’s you know.

00:33:29.670 –> 00:33:39.420 Joseph McElroy: it’s that’s for people that though i’m way past that time of doing that Heikki but I used to do it now your kids in the family and all that sort of stuff.

00:33:41.700 –> 00:33:46.170 Joseph McElroy: You know I would I do remember that you can’t take your dog on the trail, why is that.

00:33:47.460 –> 00:33:58.260 Keith: Well, the smokies are a designated wilderness area, and so, in fact, that’s a big deterrent on hiking the at there’s people making their livelihood by.

00:33:58.830 –> 00:34:06.540 Keith: Keeping people’s dogs and driving them to one in the park from the other, because the thru hikers often will hike with dogs and cannot take them through the park.

00:34:06.810 –> 00:34:16.920 Keith: A lot of tourists will bring their dog with them and not realize until they get to a trailhead there’s two trails that they do allow dogs on and they’re they’re kind of like.

00:34:18.000 –> 00:34:24.060 Keith: The gatlinburg trail, which is a great kids trail, and you can walk a dog and even take a bicycle on on that trail.

00:34:24.360 –> 00:34:31.200 Keith: And then the kind of left the trail over on the North Carolina side has a section out of cherokee that they allow dogs on.

00:34:31.500 –> 00:34:44.760 Keith: And what’s good about both those are long rivers to where the dog can get in the stream a bit and all that, so there is one area but it’s very minute in the Grand scheme of the back country adventures, you can do none with your dog.

00:34:45.870 –> 00:34:48.030 Joseph McElroy: Why would they not like dogs in the trophy yeah.

00:34:48.150 –> 00:34:52.170 Keith: it’s a it’s a wilderness designation and they would just like Brett.

00:34:53.220 –> 00:34:59.280 Keith: First off you wouldn’t want to be below cliff talks with a 500 foot drop off and a handrail.

00:35:00.300 –> 00:35:16.140 Keith: In me, you know someone who just on safe but that eat ecology, you know the the the scat let’s say would not be you know would mess, with the system in the park it’s a real this made for coyotes and foxes and bears and not dogs aren’t native.

00:35:17.730 –> 00:35:25.740 Joseph McElroy: So you know people come in there, do they have to be concerned about their safety every now the crime of the things are problem is that.

00:35:27.360 –> 00:35:38.130 Keith: Not not a problem with common sense, like they say that you know not leave the person the front of the car, you know I mean there might be some break ins and all that, and in fact that’s the.

00:35:38.910 –> 00:35:58.230 Keith: The park having to designate law enforcement does take away from the back country money to spend on trails and upkeep but but no, I would not worry about crime in the park, if you are have common sense, with it, especially the more popular trail ads have safety in numbers.

00:35:59.940 –> 00:36:15.030 Joseph McElroy: So let’s change the subject you know I don’t think a lot of people know the love these trails go to old settlements old cabins elk one I think is one right, what do you have on the Tennessee side and that regard.

00:36:15.420 –> 00:36:23.490 Keith: Well, definitely mentioned outman which you can almost dead again oh shouted at and then another big big cultural thing kind of.

00:36:23.880 –> 00:36:40.620 Keith: In the case, so to speak, is the the old CCC era where they had a civilian conservation corps set up and they built a lot of the roadways In fact the stonework you see along some of the bridges in the park are hard to replicate today in the.

00:36:42.090 –> 00:36:54.390 Keith: kitchen cabinets of that too, for the social benefit of the country back during the depression so there’s a lot of that history in can hike along old cemeteries, like the greenbrier section of park.

00:36:55.020 –> 00:37:08.610 Keith: The minibar preservation society will give you a map in the all the all the cemeteries are very, very fascinated some people are into that there’s books dedicated to it and but elements, the biggest one where it’s an old.

00:37:09.810 –> 00:37:10.890 Keith: Oh gosh hard to explain.

00:37:12.990 –> 00:37:20.640 Keith: But it’s gone now they’re restoring some buildings and they let me in the rest of the kind of move in the history.

00:37:21.000 –> 00:37:26.130 Joseph McElroy: of you know, North Carolina has some good good settlements and old buildings to that they have on the park right.

00:37:27.180 –> 00:37:28.230 Keith: Yes, yes.

00:37:28.380 –> 00:37:31.290 Joseph McElroy: yeah like go it kind of left he has a village right.

00:37:32.070 –> 00:37:43.860 Keith: Right right the Indian village, it covers that culture, in fact, the contrast of should was visitor Center where the kind of left, he is shibboleths does one of the plant life and the the biosphere.

00:37:44.370 –> 00:37:51.030 Keith: era of the park and then kind of lefty it carries the Indian cultural heritage in some of that type of history for the park.

00:37:52.020 –> 00:38:00.600 Joseph McElroy: cool and then it’s kind of Gucci valley that has that old that old settlement to there’s a good some good hikes up there right.

00:38:01.050 –> 00:38:03.330 Keith: Yes, yes, that that’s over in your one SEC.

00:38:03.330 –> 00:38:06.720 Joseph McElroy: Oh, I know a little bit about that it’s a purchase now.

00:38:06.810 –> 00:38:13.830 Keith: i’ve not done purchase knob yet, and I want to go stand the metal Arc and go hike up there i’m gonna i’m gonna do that this year.

00:38:14.310 –> 00:38:16.560 Joseph McElroy: Well, you should you know it’s a 500 acre.

00:38:17.790 –> 00:38:29.700 Joseph McElroy: handcrafted mountain retreat the smokies yeah I really it’s it’s not too far from Maggie Valley, we send people there over all the time it’s got it’s like 5000 feet, is a pretty tall place.

00:38:29.820 –> 00:38:36.930 Joseph McElroy: right and it was it’s it’s fairly recent to be part of the National Park, it was donated in 2000.

00:38:38.640 –> 00:38:50.970 Joseph McElroy: And you know what’s great I liked it, you know I like it, because it’s family friendly you know they got the appalachian Highlands science learning Center there and they have like I don’t know thousands of students come there for a year.

00:38:52.380 –> 00:39:04.170 Joseph McElroy: And, and you know when you’re talking about wild flowers it’s a great place to see all the wild flowers and stuff in the mountains and family family friendly environment so anyway.

00:39:06.600 –> 00:39:08.220 Keith: It has a good webcam.

00:39:08.490 –> 00:39:09.720 Joseph McElroy: And as a good webcam.

00:39:12.570 –> 00:39:21.120 Joseph McElroy: So do you know I bet you know about the road to nowhere i’ve talked about it a couple times here is a you know about, but it’s not a talking head saw.

00:39:23.190 –> 00:39:24.840 Keith: wanted to clarify that for everyone.

00:39:25.500 –> 00:39:42.450 Keith: Definitely, the road and nowhere is is kind of like I guess is the Federal Government promised the state of North Carolina a tourism road in somehow the plug got pulled on it so they’ve got a bridge and a road and it just takes you somewhere and then it that’s.

00:39:42.600 –> 00:39:45.510 Joseph McElroy: What it ends of the trail right it’s a great hiking trail right.

00:39:45.540 –> 00:39:49.710 Keith: Right right, and you can travel it out of the bryson city area, the park.

00:39:50.910 –> 00:39:59.190 Joseph McElroy: So so we’ve talked about wild flowers, so why don’t we tell everybody, what are the best wildfire hikes and when when when would they peek this year.

00:39:59.580 –> 00:40:07.200 Keith: Oh good one for one thing, one of my most recommended heights for wild flowers of borders flat and ramsey’s.

00:40:07.560 –> 00:40:15.180 Keith: prong and ramsey’s cascade it’s going to have some bridge work this year so check ahead on that you might not be able to hike the ramsey’s cascade.

00:40:15.510 –> 00:40:23.400 Keith: For during the peak wildflower season Okay, but some alternatives are the little river trail, and my.

00:40:23.790 –> 00:40:32.370 Keith: Beautiful it’s like an old road bed, where you can walk side by side with people along the mountain stream and there’s several really good trail for trump trillions on that one.

00:40:32.700 –> 00:40:41.580 Keith: And there’s also middle prong of the little river, not the little pigeon but the middle brung that little river other tree month section of the park has.

00:40:42.210 –> 00:40:58.380 Keith: Excellent destinations for like spruce flat falls is there that in that area and and then the porters like done going up to linville cascade and leadville falls is a betrayal for water waterfalls and wildflower.

00:40:59.520 –> 00:41:06.630 Joseph McElroy: cool yeah and I mentioned in the north Carolina side is the is the purchase knob is a great place for.

00:41:08.040 –> 00:41:11.790 Joseph McElroy: What are the best waterfall hikes or near the top three or something like that.

00:41:12.120 –> 00:41:14.640 Keith: Okay um you know what not rainbow.

00:41:15.840 –> 00:41:18.330 Keith: everybody gets their tail kicked going to rainbow so.

00:41:18.330 –> 00:41:21.450 Keith: Give that one up, I mean you know it’s it’s nice but.

00:41:22.890 –> 00:41:36.180 Keith: let’s see the aforementioned spruce flat falls out of treatment is is short hike in a very worthy falls trial ends there so it’s just an in and out or out and back type about trail.

00:41:37.050 –> 00:41:43.860 Keith: The another abrams abrams falls, which is an cates co aprons is the largest.

00:41:44.190 –> 00:41:54.210 Keith: watershed in in the smokies that is entirely protected and what I mean by that is when it flows out of the park he goes on to Tennessee valley authority land and then flows into.

00:41:54.810 –> 00:42:05.400 Keith: Like chill how he recalled and chill housing and so anyways that’s where they introduced the elk are not the all the orders orders are the ones that swim right so.

00:42:06.180 –> 00:42:07.830 Keith: They are so therefore they could.

00:42:07.890 –> 00:42:16.260 Keith: Like they ventured out of the park they wouldn’t hit the hunter hunting zone, so to speak, so abrams is is definitely recommend a waterfall and.

00:42:17.100 –> 00:42:34.260 Keith: Smaller one that needs good volume, as far as rain and such to support it is him wallow falls out of cosby in that’s a steel pipe to not many people hike that particularly trail it’s on games mountain trail out of the cosmic campground area.

00:42:35.340 –> 00:42:40.260 Joseph McElroy: cool and you know I we talked about spring but waterfalls is a great as great.

00:42:41.280 –> 00:42:43.140 Joseph McElroy: Those are some good winter hikes are.

00:42:44.430 –> 00:42:55.260 Keith: Very much so, in fact, the lower elevation one thing about the park is that a lot of times when it snows that newfound gap about 5000 foot you can’t drive to the higher elevation heights.

00:42:55.650 –> 00:43:05.250 Keith: In so you have to use the low country and a lot of the good falls are at a low level, you know elevation wise, I mean and so.

00:43:06.090 –> 00:43:16.380 Keith: let’s see what one would I recommend, on that there’s a men’s falls that actually leads out of the saints area that goes up from there and it’s.

00:43:16.740 –> 00:43:27.210 Keith: Once you leave the sinks parking area which is popular with swimmers and everything you find a destination waterfall with with it’s also a stealth falls but that’d be a good winter, when there.

00:43:27.900 –> 00:43:31.650 Joseph McElroy: yeah and I guess you’re supposed to wear Spikes when you’re watching those mountains right.

00:43:31.860 –> 00:43:34.260 Keith: crampons that you take portable crampons.

00:43:34.710 –> 00:43:38.910 Keith: If you get a pipe like there’ll be is just for sections of the trail.

00:43:39.060 –> 00:43:52.200 Keith: yeah you get the kind of like slip on your foot walk 30 foot with them take them off, and if you need more ice apparatuses and that it’s probably a really brutal day.

00:43:52.560 –> 00:43:55.980 Joseph McElroy: So obviously people with big Spikes and also with you know.

00:43:56.310 –> 00:44:01.980 Joseph McElroy: Basically ski Poles thinking that they’re going to have to go through the tunnel or something like that.

00:44:02.250 –> 00:44:06.540 Keith: But he’s in for that, but you know not see your average height of that’s yeah.

00:44:06.600 –> 00:44:11.250 Joseph McElroy: I used to I used to this hike in the winter would just good old boots and that was about it.

00:44:13.560 –> 00:44:21.480 Joseph McElroy: You can you can figure out how to get it’s not it’s not so bad, the mountain the smokies you can figure it out, except real high elevation, then you gotta do it so stuff.

00:44:21.930 –> 00:44:22.140 Keith: Like.

00:44:22.170 –> 00:44:28.080 Joseph McElroy: All right, when we come back i’m going to ask you, can you explain pigeon forge oh.

00:44:29.430 –> 00:44:31.320 Keith: Okay okay sounds good.

00:46:49.980 –> 00:47:04.890 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin mcilroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcast with my guest Keith guards hiking expert and smoking so before the break I said you’d come back and you tell me, can you explain pigeon forge.

00:47:06.270 –> 00:47:15.990 Keith: Oh yes, let me try that one i’m pigeon forge first off i’m coming to you from pigeon forge in the financial district, which means i’m in an.

00:47:17.340 –> 00:47:32.820 Keith: Insurance Office complex Okay, but anyways I got my pigeon forge blame here, and if you think about pigeon forge being on this planet, not to put Las Vegas out of business, you get the idea, and what I mean by that is.

00:47:33.540 –> 00:47:42.840 Keith: compare and contrast Las Vegas with pigeon forge pigeon forge is a family friendly area with all kinds of things, and what I like about it, for example, there’s.

00:47:43.230 –> 00:47:54.090 Keith: indoor so to be near here there’s gravity coasters there’s miniature golf all the car shows been talking about everything to bring the family close.

00:47:54.360 –> 00:48:11.430 Keith: To where they can venture into the smokies and kind of turn our next generation on to the preservation of a national park provides and so definitely, if you like, Las Vegas has the pillars and panic at the disco pigeon forge has Dolly parton.

00:48:11.700 –> 00:48:12.090 Joseph McElroy: So we’re.

00:48:12.390 –> 00:48:21.330 Keith: All we’re all on this planet for a reason and pigeon forge is definitely family oriented and i’m proud to be part of it, one thing also bought.

00:48:21.780 –> 00:48:38.340 Keith: pigeon forge they do a very worthy international destination of for a festival it’s called a wilderness wildlife week and every year it’s been on for since 1991 and it has its won the best.

00:48:40.440 –> 00:48:55.950 Keith: international event by the International festivals and events association in 2016 and 17 so people can travel from around the world, or even New York City flying and muggy Tyson shuttle over to pigeon forge and they have a.

00:48:56.370 –> 00:49:04.320 Keith: bunch of workshops, seminars and classes that are all for free and I lead a height doing it i’ve led hikes.

00:49:04.650 –> 00:49:12.870 Keith: To Andrews ball to baskin creek falls that we spoke up and then while falls and Albright sproxil all for trails we’ve talked about.

00:49:13.140 –> 00:49:29.610 Keith: i’ve led heights to for free and shuttle you haven’t lived until you get a get a pigeon forge trolley and ride with your backpack to trailhead it just get shuttled there they pick you up it’s really luxurious which want me to focus on a few of the seminars and classes, that they have.

00:49:30.180 –> 00:49:32.130 Joseph McElroy: A couple of give us a shout outs right now.

00:49:32.730 –> 00:49:35.220 Joseph McElroy: This is not a promoted bumblebees.

00:49:36.420 –> 00:49:37.260 Keith: This right here.

00:49:37.350 –> 00:49:45.180 Keith: Is I mean this is all covered within the the event of wilderness wildlife we like camera basics carving fly fishing.

00:49:46.020 –> 00:49:54.660 Keith: Bear safety, you know that out to be required before you rent a cabin so and then they’ve got the great smoky mountain heritage.

00:49:55.080 –> 00:50:10.110 Keith: wildflower of these are all people, giving seminars, or having boost to to sell you a guidebooks and such and and so and birds and butterflies okay now notice pigeon forge a they left the bees out of it.

00:50:12.810 –> 00:50:31.590 Keith: that’s all and they have it now in the ramsey hotel and Convention Center so you could actually stay there, and have all these free events in it’s an underrated mountain old time music event to they always have some old time mountain music plan during the festival or during the event.

00:50:32.310 –> 00:50:34.260 Joseph McElroy: cool and you said, the dates were again.

00:50:34.710 –> 00:50:39.540 Keith: On you know it for next year it’s going to be January 25 to the 29th and.

00:50:41.250 –> 00:50:57.120 Keith: cool they moved it to the winter again and the mind pigeon forge.com is the one stop shop to like look up for all these car events and to to look ahead at the wilderness wildlife week and consider attending.

00:50:57.840 –> 00:51:03.120 Joseph McElroy: And then, if people want to reach you what would you how would, how would they go about that.

00:51:07.260 –> 00:51:09.270 Joseph McElroy: Your faith, you have a Facebook page or linkedin.

00:51:09.570 –> 00:51:11.550 Keith: For I do instagram I do instagram.

00:51:13.080 –> 00:51:13.860 Keith: And I will it.

00:51:14.160 –> 00:51:28.620 Keith: Right off the BAT say that a lot of i’ve got a cabin up in the big South fork area of Tennessee and Kentucky and pickett state Park, so I lot of my pictures of arches and natural bridges that are in that area I think it’s on heralded.

00:51:29.400 –> 00:51:34.770 Keith: Are underrated I should say and courses out of the scope of the smokies so.

00:51:35.280 –> 00:51:42.360 Keith: Look, for that one much, but so anyways I my instagram account I guess K gardens.

00:51:42.870 –> 00:51:58.050 Keith: instagram but I really don’t monetize a hiking I think that, like all the flavor and last week gave several great recommendations on using guided heights in the area in whitewater rafting you know the peripheral things to do, outside of the park.

00:51:58.980 –> 00:52:06.060 Keith: and also the zip lining so there’s a lot of things to do and but i’m not the guy to monetize it.

00:52:06.510 –> 00:52:16.590 Joseph McElroy: By the authentic so I appreciate your time and i’m giving now do some sponsorship stuff and then talk about what’s happening next week, oh.

00:52:17.730 –> 00:52:23.730 Joseph McElroy: I want you to you know if you want to find out more What about what’s happened to our podcast go to gateway to the smokies Doc fun.

00:52:24.690 –> 00:52:35.100 Joseph McElroy: it’s a new site, so there might be some hiccups we have all the pot, we have all the podcasts on there other articles, you can subscribe to a newsletter which will be coming out to give you.

00:52:35.640 –> 00:52:43.530 Joseph McElroy: updates on the podcast and the upcoming guests and things of interest to the audience again is gateway to the smokies calm.

00:52:44.010 –> 00:52:53.910 Joseph McElroy: Now I want you to imagine a page a place evocative of motor cortex of the past, yet modern and vibrant within chic appalachian feel.

00:52:54.480 –> 00:53:00.690 Joseph McElroy: a place for adventure and for relaxation imagine a place where you can fish them out inheritance trout stream.

00:53:01.170 –> 00:53:12.300 Joseph McElroy: grill it on the on the catch on the fire and eat accompanied by fine wine or craft beers imagine a place of the old time music and world cultural sounds.

00:53:12.630 –> 00:53:19.560 Joseph McElroy: there’s no other place like the middle Arc motel and Maggie valley North Carolina on the edge of the great smoky mountains National Park.

00:53:20.130 –> 00:53:31.350 Joseph McElroy: We are the starting point for all of your adventures and serenity that these mountains have to venture your smoky mountain adventure starts with where you stay the middle Arc motel.com.

00:53:32.880 –> 00:53:42.480 Joseph McElroy: Also, I own I own a site called smoky adventures COM and its goal is to provide as much information pertaining to the smoky mountains as possible.

00:53:42.870 –> 00:53:54.120 Joseph McElroy: While presenting that information in the best possible way it strives to give users, a positive experience of finding outdoor adventures lodgings attractions and events in around the smoky mountains.

00:53:54.630 –> 00:54:08.670 Joseph McElroy: And not only covers the great smoky mountains National Park, but also communities like gatlinburg pigeon forward sybil towns in cherokee where’s valley Maggie valley and brightest and city, as well as the big towns like asheville and national.

00:54:09.360 –> 00:54:22.800 Joseph McElroy: We have my hiking trails lots of hiking trails maps information about the most popular trails and waterfalls interactive trailhead map detailed hiking trails sections information about multi day hikes.

00:54:23.370 –> 00:54:38.820 Joseph McElroy: And you can find all that it’s smokies adventure calm I this podcast is part of where traveler comms podcast series, and I have developed the SEC, the the the regional.

00:54:41.040 –> 00:54:47.040 Joseph McElroy: Publishing part of that call where travel COM slash great smoky mountains with dashes between the words.

00:54:48.060 –> 00:54:56.220 Joseph McElroy: It world traveler where travelers the world’s premier name and travel publishing for magazines and books to maps and comprehensive digital competent content.

00:54:56.520 –> 00:55:10.770 Joseph McElroy: Where travelers gives travelers everything they need from a local perspective each year 246 million travelers trust were trial or up to date information on where to go and what to see in nearly 100 location destinations worldwide.

00:55:12.930 –> 00:55:26.220 Joseph McElroy: And then, finally, I want you to know that we’re on the talk radio dot nyc network we it’s a network of a lot of great podcasts, I think, right after ours is rediscovering New York from.

00:55:27.060 –> 00:55:37.500 Joseph McElroy: Six seven to eight it’s live on Tuesdays from seven to eight like this one’s live on, and then you can also define it on iTunes and other networks.

00:55:39.540 –> 00:55:58.650 Joseph McElroy: So don’t forget and then come back next week where our podcasts will feature another cultural and adventure in the mountains of smoky mountains of Tennessee and North Carolina, or rather the smoky mountains of North Carolina and Tennessee i’ll see you later bye.

Our guest in this episode is Olwen Claiborne - Marketing Director of Smoky Mountain Outdoors Rafting, With over 30 years in the tourism marketplace, Olwen is living her first passion and represents the leading river outfitter in the Smoky Mountains Region. She knows all about whitewater Rafting in the Smokies.

‍

Tune in for this fun conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.

Today’s episode will be all about water. Today’s guest Olwen Claiborne comes to us from Smoky Mountain Outdoors Rafting. Before discussing rafting, Joseph and Olwen discuss headwaters. The headwaters of the Smokies start in the mountains and Haywood County. In the past 20 years, Maggie Valley has started bottling the water that flows through it. Jonathan Creek flows through the back of the Meadowlark Motel property, which Joseph owns. There are many waterfalls and streams throughout the mountains, with great places to swim. Sliding Rock, about 20 miles south of Maggie Valley, is essentially a natural waterslide, with tons of water pushing you down a rock. Joseph goes on to discuss a variety of other places to swim in the Smokies. Olwen discusses her first experience with whitewater rafting. From her first experience rafting, Olwen fell in love with rivers, from tubing to rafting, becoming a river guide back in ‘92.

The Smoky Mountains Outdoors Rafting rafts on the Big Pigeon River. Years ago, pollutants from a paper processing plant flowed downstream in the pigeon river. This went on into the ’70s when a grassroots organization started a movement to lobby for cleaner water downstream. Around that time, there was a whitewater rafting team in the Olympics and recreational rafting was getting started. As the clean water act was published, Tennessee sued North Carolina as the water from the paper plant was going downstream into Tennessee from North Carolina. The paper processing plant found another way to process their paper, and the water has improved greatly as a result. With the growth of commercial rafting came regulation. The pigeon river is primarily a class 3 to 4 rapid river. Smoky Mountain Outdoor Rafting is the largest rafting company on the Pigeon River.

Olwen discusses her time as a rafting guide, noting that the Pigeon River is warmer than the river she used to guide on. Rafting is truly authentic to the mountain experience, being one of the most up close and personal perspectives you can get. In the spring, you can see the wildflowers blooming in the mountains while rafting. The water is unpredictable in the spring, with some days not having whitewater. From memorial day to labor day, the water levels are regulated and the trips are scheduled as such. As before memorial day, after labor day the water levels are unregulated, but the scenery is beautiful as the colors are changing. The upper pigeon river trip was named a top ten experience in the United States. The extreme version is a smaller boat, seating a maximum of 4 guests, compared to the usual 7. The smaller boats have larger impacts. On the lower pigeon river, trips are provided for families with younger children as the rapids are smaller, and might not be whitewater. Instead of rafting, groups can also rent kayaks. There is also a full river trip that stops for lunch in the middle.

Olwen discusses Smoky Mountain Outdoor Rafting’s partners, such as a company that offers ziplining. Olwen talks about other things to do in the park and her relationships with her guides. Surprisingly, during the days of COVID, outdoor adventures have been incredibly popular.

00:00:27.480 --> 00:00:28.140 Joseph McElroy: howdy.

00:00:28.440 --> 00:00:40.530 Joseph McElroy: Thanks for joining us on this week's episode of gateway to the smokies this podcast is about America's most visited National Park, the great smoky mountains national park, and surrounding towns.

00:00:41.190 --> 00:00:49.920 Joseph McElroy: These areas are filled with ancient natural beauty a deep storied history and a rich mountain culture that we've explored with weekly episodes.

00:00:50.490 --> 00:01:02.790 Joseph McElroy: I am Joseph Franklin McElroy man of the world, but also with deep roots in those mountains my family is living in the great smokies for over 200 years my business is travel, but my heart is in culture.

00:01:03.570 --> 00:01:09.480 Joseph McElroy: So today we're going to talk about water and I'm going to talk about headwaters and swimming holes.

00:01:09.870 --> 00:01:21.630 Joseph McElroy: And my guest Olwen Claiborne the marketing Director of smoky mountain outdoors rafting one of the premier rafting providers in the smoky mountains, is going to talk about whitewater rafting I own how you doing.

00:01:22.140 --> 00:01:23.670 Olwen Claiborne: hi Joseph,thanks for having me.

00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:30.300 Joseph McElroy: As a pleasure, so um before we get into whitewater rafting I'm gonna hit the smaller things.

00:01:31.980 --> 00:01:31.980 Joseph McElroy: I.

00:01:33.360 --> 00:01:39.540 Joseph McElroy: mentioned that we do have a lot of waterfall culture to talk about, but we don't do a whole show on waterfall through that sort of a special thing.

00:01:40.770 --> 00:01:44.040 Joseph McElroy: So I'm talking about headwaters I don't know.

00:01:45.330 --> 00:01:52.380 Joseph McElroy: it's a common saying that everyone lives downstream and Haywood county where I grew up.

00:01:53.730 --> 00:01:55.800 Joseph McElroy: But we also live upstream is.

00:01:56.880 --> 00:02:00.150 Joseph McElroy: Because the basically the headwaters.

00:02:02.880 --> 00:02:17.460 Joseph McElroy: Because we live amongst the headwaters of the lands meandering streams creeks and rivers headwaters is where the water starts it's where the River start stream starts when it comes out of the ground is not, if not from rainfall this comes right out of the mountain sides.

00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:27.810 Joseph McElroy: So, and what happens is the rainfall permeates down through the soil becomes naturally filtered and cleaned is gravity pushes it back in the cracks.

00:02:28.530 --> 00:02:45.000 Joseph McElroy: From the practice in the rock below and then it moves laterally and downhill to spouts out of the side of a mountain as headwaters and then where flows, down to the other waters to the ocean wherever its destination is.

00:02:46.320 --> 00:02:56.940 Joseph McElroy: And so every waterfall way in and Haywood county and also in much of the smoky mountains begins as headwaters originating right here, right in the mountains.

00:02:57.810 --> 00:03:09.750 Joseph McElroy: Haywood county has West and East for pigeon river the Richmond creek Johnson creek crabtree creek pines creek and then a lot of little strings and everything else so and.

00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:28.530 Joseph McElroy: So that means everything used to nurse crops brush teeth Bay the hydrate flows originally from Haywood counties headwaters from the mountains in the upside so we have incredibly clean water, when it comes out and it comes out clean it makes it a lot easier to keep it clean.

00:03:29.610 --> 00:03:32.670 Joseph McElroy: there's ways that it's got dirty and we're going to talk about that later.

00:03:34.110 --> 00:03:44.130 Joseph McElroy: haha most of the water goes to Tennessee through the pigeon river basin and then spit some of the flows over to to the Asheville area mumbling county.

00:03:45.990 --> 00:04:01.350 Joseph McElroy: And you know I when the last I don't know 20 years Maggie valley my little town and Haywood county and started bottling water believer and and you know that a bottle the from the headwaters and they've been selling it as both as a tourist thing and.

00:04:01.890 --> 00:04:06.330 Joseph McElroy: Various places that Carrie Carrie about really great.

00:04:08.670 --> 00:04:16.500 Joseph McElroy: waters and that's from the headquarters of Jonathan creek now we're talking about swimming holes and the first thing I'm talking about is Jonathan creek now.

00:04:17.640 --> 00:04:30.180 Joseph McElroy: I have somebody you know, I have a motel them and in Maggie bell called the middle art motel sort of a motel chic resort, and we have Jonathan creek, which is a mountain heritage.

00:04:30.990 --> 00:04:36.150 Joseph McElroy: trap stream going right through the back of that of that property.

00:04:36.750 --> 00:04:40.920 Joseph McElroy: Where our guests can fish can swim they can do all sorts of thing, and when I was growing up.

00:04:41.250 --> 00:04:50.160 Joseph McElroy: there's a little bridge at the end, where a bunch of water rushes into right into the bridge and right when it comes, on the other side of the bridge it's dug a hole about six eight feet.

00:04:50.430 --> 00:05:02.820 Joseph McElroy: And for me that it wasn't swimming hole, we have, we have a swimming pool at the motel but I love this secret little swimming hole at this in this clean fresh water during the summer, and I would just go jump into.

00:05:03.720 --> 00:05:13.740 Joseph McElroy: It was sort of mysterious you know it's it's outdoors it's wild and it's right there on the property and I really I really appreciate the experience of.

00:05:14.760 --> 00:05:20.400 Joseph McElroy: swimming in the mountain waters now because it was you know, in the town you couldn't do the skinny dipping part of it, but.

00:05:23.280 --> 00:05:24.990 Joseph McElroy: It was still a great fun for kids.

00:05:26.610 --> 00:05:34.200 Joseph McElroy: I will mention a few other places are great to go to doing some swimming holes and Mounds have lots of great waterfalls and streams and.

00:05:34.500 --> 00:05:42.720 Joseph McElroy: And things like that, and there are perfect places to go get your swim and experience in swimming hold on I mean there's just so many that.

00:05:43.350 --> 00:05:54.540 Joseph McElroy: You can go to that people really enjoy there's one called beneath the falls and it's a it's been it's there's a sparkling waterfall that.

00:05:55.350 --> 00:06:09.660 Joseph McElroy: goes along the graveyard fields trails about 25 miles southeast of Maggie valley and it's it's it's just about a third of a mile from the blue Ridge parkway at mile points for 118.

00:06:10.200 --> 00:06:21.750 Joseph McElroy: And you're going to go through a tunnel of rhododendrons and cross of wooden bridge and then you come to this word semi area that has an observation deck and large boulders for some something so.

00:06:22.170 --> 00:06:34.380 Joseph McElroy: there's also a lot of blackberries and grow there during the summer, so you can bring a bucket and pick blackberries and also blueberries in August and the National Park service allows you the monitors it and.

00:06:35.490 --> 00:06:48.450 Joseph McElroy: If it allows you to take a whole bucket out so it's a good way to go, have a full mountain experience you get this you get to go hiking you get to go swimming and you get to pick blackberries I can't think of anything more smoky mountain than that.

00:06:50.730 --> 00:06:58.500 Joseph McElroy: there's also some longer trails there also sliding rock that's about 30 miles miles south of Maggie valley and since long.

00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:08.880 Joseph McElroy: Smooth rock you can slide down to the slides so you go lay out sort of it's not a waterfall it's not a steep as a waterfall but it's not flat either and it's a long.

00:07:09.180 --> 00:07:12.960 Joseph McElroy: thing it's really fun in the water, just pushes you down it's like 11,000.

00:07:13.320 --> 00:07:19.080 Joseph McElroy: gallons of water wash addresses down that rock every minute so you're going into a pretty good pace pace.

00:07:19.320 --> 00:07:29.610 Joseph McElroy: And there but there's it's a it's a park there's bathrooms there and it's a great it's a great adventure for people to go go along and it's a long road that goes through the a lot of different.

00:07:30.060 --> 00:07:38.220 Joseph McElroy: it's a real nice one of those winding mountain roads, because over mountain goes on to the other side of the hendersonville area and things like that so it's a great.

00:07:38.730 --> 00:07:49.140 Joseph McElroy: drive, as well as a getting to a nice swimming goal there's the there's a in cherokee there's the acoma left the islands park all right, which is on the.

00:07:49.740 --> 00:08:07.050 Joseph McElroy: left the river and there's a couple small islands that are Jason to downtown cherokee and are accessible by footbridge and so you can spread of blank it out on the grass in Barbecue, then you can float on the top of the islands downstream with with a tuber just swing.

00:08:08.910 --> 00:08:16.740 Joseph McElroy: Other points is a bust your butt falls, it gives you that that has a really deep pool from the cliffs and there's a.

00:08:17.910 --> 00:08:31.440 Joseph McElroy: Right, there is a little more adventurous because there's a rope tied off on a on a on a tree that helps you climb up the rock face but it's got some ideal boulders for signing and you can fish above and below the halls.

00:08:32.820 --> 00:08:41.520 Joseph McElroy: and other one is the on the on the near gatlinburg a little rigid pigeon for there's something called the greenbrier swimming hole, so this is getting into Tennessee.

00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:58.290 Joseph McElroy: And it's sensible from route 322 it's in a deep part of the River so it's great for swimming is not widely known, while we've known widely known by terrorists so it's peaceful and quiet and it's great for sunbathing there's also Townsend why that's.

00:08:59.010 --> 00:09:14.610 Joseph McElroy: That it's got a lot it's good it's good it's a feud swimming pool a whole but it's also some small rapids for tubes as a jump off wrong rock it has several large pools with enough there's enough space to spread out in the water.

00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:27.390 Joseph McElroy: And it's near the near the National Park entrance and Townsend one that opened in wyoming dimension because it's become so popular is midnight hole all right and.

00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:44.220 Joseph McElroy: it's part of big creek and it's got large bottle boulders and it's got a small waterfall and it has some nearby other attractions to like the mouse friend follows and it's it's so deep that it has got a beautiful dark shimmering light into the water.

00:09:45.270 --> 00:10:00.420 Joseph McElroy: there's April and falls it's located in cage code, one of the most popular places to go visit in the smoky smoky mountain National Park, and it is it's about it takes about 2.5 mile hike to get there.

00:10:02.160 --> 00:10:13.950 Joseph McElroy: But it's got a very large swimming hole it's about 100 feet wide in all directions so, but there is a there is a pretty turbulent waterfall is you want to do don't don't assume that close to.

00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:20.670 Joseph McElroy: And then finally there's a metcalf bottom, so I mean there's a lot more I just picked out some of the highlights.

00:10:22.110 --> 00:10:33.060 Joseph McElroy: there in fact this is giving me a great idea we're going to do a blog post on one of our blogs, and really and directory listing of all these great swimming holes I think it's it's a great resource.

00:10:33.810 --> 00:10:41.910 Joseph McElroy: To have, I have a directory site for things like this called smokies adventure COM, where we have directories of all sorts of stuff.

00:10:43.110 --> 00:10:55.470 Joseph McElroy: And it's a, and so there is a picnic area located between counseling gatlinburg and offers access to the little girl little green by a river and there's there several more shallow swimming holes that are just scattered around.

00:10:55.800 --> 00:11:03.180 Joseph McElroy: And it's a place to really throw in a tube and just float and relax the sunshine So those are the swimming holes that.

00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:16.170 Joseph McElroy: And the headwaters and now we're going to talk a little bit of white white white water rafting so Oh, it has over 30 years in the tourism marketplace and she spent a little time in Mexico and New York.

00:11:16.830 --> 00:11:35.910 Joseph McElroy: She is living her first passion and represents the leading river outfitter and the smoky mountains region and that and she knows a lot about whitewater rafting in the smoky so Oh, and tell me about your passion for whitewater rafting I think you were talking about Mexico right.

00:11:37.380 --> 00:11:42.240 Olwen Claiborne: Well, first I'll tell you i'm going to query and that's the zodiac sign for water bear.

00:11:42.390 --> 00:11:47.700 Olwen Claiborne: There you go, so I think there's some h2o in my blood and you know.

00:11:48.150 --> 00:12:02.220 Olwen Claiborne: I grew up in the 70s and that's when deliverance came out and my parents loved deliverance So when I was a kid they used to talk about whitewater rafting a lot when I got to be about 14 or 15 years old.

00:12:02.670 --> 00:12:13.380 Olwen Claiborne: The family went on our first rafting trip on the man, a halo river and that black and white photo nobody's wearing helmets is still hanging on my mom's well today.

00:12:14.790 --> 00:12:20.940 Olwen Claiborne: We actually took a debt interest exchange kid on that river she freaked out because you know the Netherlands of flat.

00:12:21.240 --> 00:12:33.510 Olwen Claiborne: So that was that was quite an adventure, for her and every ever since every chance I get I go to the River there's one particular place you mentioned Mexico 19.

00:12:34.440 --> 00:12:44.310 Olwen Claiborne: Excuse me in 1991 my good friend Keith Barnes and I went to Mexico on extended road trip and one place that we went was a place, so I was.

00:12:44.970 --> 00:12:53.670 Olwen Claiborne: I was all is a very blue pristine beautiful river it's got a lot of mineral built up on it, which makes the water light blue.

00:12:54.000 --> 00:13:08.100 Olwen Claiborne: And we found our way to a place called a local area, which is the eye of the river and it was the most spectacular place I don't know if you can get there now it's kind of a treacherous trip very, very narrow path next to a massive.

00:13:08.490 --> 00:13:20.790 Olwen Claiborne: river and when you get to the mouth of the river, there is a huge cave very, very far up on the cliff side and watch the water gushing out, that is, the headwaters of all was.

00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:30.750 Olwen Claiborne: And that did it I already had gotten my toe and that just completely filled my soul, with the River ever since then.

00:13:31.410 --> 00:13:39.150 Olwen Claiborne: It was tubing as a teenager driving up from knoxville to go to the same sense of the y at several of those other places that you've mentioned.

00:13:39.690 --> 00:13:51.870 Olwen Claiborne: And then Lo and behold on that river trip I fell in love with commercial rafting and came back and checked out as a river guide on the Nana hey we're it was 92 years a long time ago.

00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:58.980 Joseph McElroy: I talked a little bit about that history when we come back there's some interesting history about these rivers and mountains, that we want to explore.

00:16:58.170 --> 00:17:09.000 Joseph McElroy: Howdy, this is Joseph Franklyn McElroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcast with my guest Olwen Clairborne.

00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:11.040 Olwen Claiborne: yeah nice break.

00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:18.540 Joseph McElroy: So I'm your company and smoky mountain outdoors is located in the pigeon Forge right?

00:17:18.600 --> 00:17:36.510 Joseph McElroy: that's right, so you did I read a little article you wrote about history raft and smokies and I thought was really interesting so at first and even you know how the pigeon river god's name they want to go into that.

00:17:37.470 --> 00:17:44.610 Olwen Claiborne: I think it's kind of ironic that there's a lot of places around the severe county did have the name pigeon in that.

00:17:45.120 --> 00:17:52.500 Olwen Claiborne: there's the middle on the West palm, and these are the little pigeon river there's pigeon forge and there is the big page and river, which is where we wrath.

00:17:53.070 --> 00:18:00.180 Olwen Claiborne: they're all named after the extinct passenger pigeon, which was a beautiful very large, and very colorful pigeon.

00:18:00.930 --> 00:18:16.140 Olwen Claiborne: That was so prolific then when flocks would fly over the sky would darken but people loved their feathers and feathers and fashion, where all the praise and the passenger pigeon was basically hunted into extinction.

00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:31.290 Olwen Claiborne: Well, once upon a time, as you know, being from Western North Carolina the pigeon river was also the recipient of discharge from a paper processing plant in came.

00:18:31.890 --> 00:18:48.990 Olwen Claiborne: And the discharge read downstream now when I did the research for this article, I learned that at the turn of the century when lumbering the mountain sides was the thing, this is why the park was establishes the Save the mountains, because they were being completely denuded.

00:18:50.100 --> 00:18:59.880 Olwen Claiborne: Western Carolina saw an opportunity to attract jobs and create some economic growth, the senators of North Carolina made it legal.

00:19:00.420 --> 00:19:07.290 Olwen Claiborne: For anyone who invested over $100,000 into a paper processing plant to waive.

00:19:08.010 --> 00:19:14.340 Olwen Claiborne: Environmental protection laws and discharge their bluetooth into the river, it was an incentive.

00:19:14.700 --> 00:19:28.140 Olwen Claiborne: And it did, create a tremendous amount of jobs can went from being basically a repressed area to a boom town, there was a lot of money and people were very happy, but, as you said earlier in the show.

00:19:29.190 --> 00:19:31.500 Olwen Claiborne: i'll water flows down hill.

00:19:31.560 --> 00:19:33.420 Joseph McElroy: yeah i'm here for.

00:19:33.840 --> 00:19:48.930 Olwen Claiborne: North Carolina pigeon section was beautiful water, but the first recipient of that water downstream was caught county, which is where we now raft and it was so heavily polluted that.

00:19:49.620 --> 00:20:00.600 Olwen Claiborne: The local school had to close, because the groundwater for the will was contaminated people lost jobs there was a very high incidence of cancer, the mountains.

00:20:01.050 --> 00:20:10.230 Olwen Claiborne: The River had really big waves really big waves and the early rafters on that side of the River will tell you the rapids were awesome.

00:20:10.740 --> 00:20:30.360 Olwen Claiborne: But they were also brown smelling and covered with this towering towering build up a phone, which was actually from the chemicals that were discharged from him now, this was all you know at the turn of the 20th century, so we're talking well over 100.

00:20:30.390 --> 00:20:41.370 Joseph McElroy: Years ago, but it was it was that way, I remember I grew up there, and I remember you know the I remember when I was growing up the smell was so bad, we were in the way as well.

00:20:42.450 --> 00:20:54.240 Joseph McElroy: We were downstream, there was a there was a part of haywood county is downstream, we were below can, and you know they we've complained about that smell and people can't just say well that's just the smell of money right and.

00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:56.100 Olwen Claiborne: He must have some people that.

00:20:56.730 --> 00:21:02.790 Joseph McElroy: know it was it was often I remember that phone and we have a farm right on that page and river below so.

00:21:03.900 --> 00:21:06.210 Joseph McElroy: I went on into the 70s didn't.

00:21:06.810 --> 00:21:11.520 Olwen Claiborne: It went well and once it once the 70s rolled around and.

00:21:12.870 --> 00:21:17.910 Olwen Claiborne: You know, it was it was kind of a granola movement, a lot of people were getting back to nature and what happy.

00:21:18.210 --> 00:21:34.950 Olwen Claiborne: There was a grassroots organization called friends the dead pigeon river society, a lot of knoxville elegance and some people from Newport and surrounding areas started, creating a grassroots movement to lobby for cleaner water downstream.

00:21:36.360 --> 00:21:44.100 Olwen Claiborne: There was a guy named Gary webb who was an environmentalist and he was sort of a spearhead of the dead pigeon river society.

00:21:44.550 --> 00:21:55.950 Olwen Claiborne: And I got to interview him for that article, and when he was trying to convince the EPA local governments, the Federal Government that something had to be done on the pitching river.

00:21:56.250 --> 00:22:10.650 Olwen Claiborne: He actually retake jars of water that was coffee colored to DC to testify and at one time once I started going okay we'll send somebody to take fish samples, or what have you they found the three is fish.

00:22:11.100 --> 00:22:12.270 Joseph McElroy: huh yeah well.

00:22:12.900 --> 00:22:21.570 Olwen Claiborne: The guy says he got a lot of a lot of mileage out of that got fish well about that time in 1982.

00:22:23.250 --> 00:22:45.150 Olwen Claiborne: In late 70s and early 80s, there was a whitewater rafting team in the Olympics and deliverance came out the stunt man from deliverance bought all the rafting equipment, all of the whitewater equipment and started the first commercial whitewater rafting outfit on the river and.

00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:52.020 Olwen Claiborne: Okay i'm having a little brain wreck there so we'll just get the proper nouns.

00:22:53.100 --> 00:23:02.190 Olwen Claiborne: But that's when whitewater rafting started, but on the page in the water was still not commercially viable, there were several different things, it is a.

00:23:03.450 --> 00:23:09.180 Olwen Claiborne: The reservoir that feeds a pigeon river is the source of hydro electric power for a power plant.

00:23:09.510 --> 00:23:18.180 Olwen Claiborne: And there was no arrangement between the power plant and anybody to regulate their discharge of the River also the water stunk and it was really nasty.

00:23:18.510 --> 00:23:26.730 Olwen Claiborne: But there were a couple of interpreted adventures he saw opportunity there one of them's name was at McKinnon.

00:23:27.300 --> 00:23:36.030 Olwen Claiborne: And he came to Gatlinburg from his years of rafting on the Kelley and tried to run whitewater rafting trips through the Center Gatlinburg.

00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:41.820 Olwen Claiborne: Well, that didn't work the waters were not deep enough and it just didn't work so then he was like okay we're going to go to the pigeon river.

00:23:42.300 --> 00:23:56.010 Olwen Claiborne: But it was polluted at that time, he would have people meet him at the river and they would take a look at the river and see if conditions were favorable and if they weren't just give them their money back, and they go back home again well.

00:23:56.820 --> 00:24:06.450 Olwen Claiborne: All of these people were coming to the area because the rabbits were so big and made it and care river, people are freedom-loving people, and it was kind of the wild Wild West of whitewater rafting.

00:24:06.900 --> 00:24:18.180 Olwen Claiborne: And our area and, over time, the founding fathers of the area started to recognize that there was a potential for money to be had if they could develop the commercial aspects of this.

00:24:18.690 --> 00:24:36.540 Olwen Claiborne: At about the same time, the clean water Protection Act was legislated at the national level and enabled states to regulate their own pollutants in the waters and less there was a dispute between the States and then the EPA would step in and that's what happened.

00:24:38.220 --> 00:24:38.910 Olwen Claiborne: So so.

00:24:40.530 --> 00:24:40.950 Joseph McElroy: So the.

00:24:41.850 --> 00:24:42.780 Olwen Claiborne: North Carolina.

00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:50.250 Joseph McElroy: Well that's what I was wondering, I remember, I remember the little bit of this or Tennessee soon North Carolina that was right yeah.

00:24:50.610 --> 00:24:55.020 Joseph McElroy: And then North Carolina did not want to have to do anything.

00:24:55.320 --> 00:25:00.630 Olwen Claiborne: At the paper plant, because it was going to affect people's jobs, the EPA stepped in they had.

00:25:01.230 --> 00:25:11.130 Olwen Claiborne: hearings in both Asheville and in Knoxville and were the most attended hearings and passions were running high, mind you, they were death threats Molotov cocktails.

00:25:11.580 --> 00:25:24.690 Olwen Claiborne: You know, under the table buyouts there was a lot of pressure on both sides to keep things the same way, they always were except the River downstream was polluted and people's lives are being destroyed well.

00:25:26.310 --> 00:25:27.390 Olwen Claiborne: The EPA.

00:25:30.630 --> 00:25:47.910 Olwen Claiborne: After they started paying attention to all of this, it just turned out that the paper processing plant which I won't name, people can look it up, if they want to discover a less expensive way to process their paper, so they cleaned up they claim that themselves.

00:25:48.360 --> 00:25:51.510 Olwen Claiborne: The river is so much improved.

00:25:52.230 --> 00:26:01.440 Joseph McElroy: it really does not you know by my farm the farm that's yeah there's no it's it's it's clear yeah it's a really beautiful say.

00:26:02.010 --> 00:26:08.970 Olwen Claiborne: Clear there's a bald eagle missing on the River I've seen otters, of course, bald eagles feed on the fish.

00:26:09.060 --> 00:26:10.350 Olwen Claiborne: And you can eat on the.

00:26:10.410 --> 00:26:10.920 Joseph McElroy: issue.

00:26:11.250 --> 00:26:21.900 Olwen Claiborne: Now right, yes, blue herons every day the wildlife is abundant and, as you know, Those are some of the steepest slopes of the smoky mountains, that the River runs right through.

00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:26.100 Olwen Claiborne: So now, the water is healthy to raft in.

00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:39.240 Olwen Claiborne: And about the same time, the founding fathers of water got cleaned up and the founding fathers started getting together and have made agreements to regulate the rafting companies and establish some safety standards because.

00:26:39.510 --> 00:26:43.710 Olwen Claiborne: They were inviting people to come to their county draft they're responsible for their safety.

00:26:44.220 --> 00:26:55.260 Olwen Claiborne: So they tapped Daniel to matt, who is the owner of smoky mountain outdoors and you had been a guide for Andy McKinnon who we could arguably call the father rafting on the pigeon river.

00:26:55.740 --> 00:27:06.270 Olwen Claiborne: There are others who would also there were there at the same time, and I don't want to take away from their work on this behalf, but these are folks I know personally they tapped them to.

00:27:07.770 --> 00:27:28.080 Olwen Claiborne: lobby with their fellow river men to start complying with the regulations and, ultimately, those that didn't we're not allowed to have permits so that's the way that the the structure for the commercial rafting community in hartford began, and that was oh gosh late 80s.

00:27:29.370 --> 00:27:45.180 Olwen Claiborne: Since that day, because the pigeon river is located in such a beautiful area and so close to so much to do between gatlinburg at Maggie Valley, it has become one of the top three rafting most popular rafting rivers in the United States.

00:27:45.450 --> 00:27:45.990 Joseph McElroy: yeah.

00:27:46.080 --> 00:27:50.850 Olwen Claiborne: that's a man, I heard a rumor that it has been the most popular river in the United States.

00:27:50.880 --> 00:28:05.760 Olwen Claiborne: on multiple occasions I do know from the American outdoors association that the O co a river in the Chattanooga area and the pigeon river in the need port knoxville Maggie valley area are two of the top three at any given time.

00:28:06.270 --> 00:28:11.490 Joseph McElroy: And then you have the French broad to add another river that people also raft on.

00:28:12.120 --> 00:28:24.030 Olwen Claiborne: it's a very popular river direct on these these these designations are based on on commercial volume yeah so the French broad river is a fantastic river, I personally love it.

00:28:24.840 --> 00:28:31.710 Olwen Claiborne: it's not really in the same category in terms of the number of outfitters and the ease of access to the river.

00:28:32.280 --> 00:28:45.180 Olwen Claiborne: So the pigeon river is a very moderate lots of fun reverts on a scale of one to five, with one big flat water and five being expert only recommended, there are no fives on the page and that we run.

00:28:45.570 --> 00:28:53.610 Olwen Claiborne: It is primarily a Class three four remember smoky mountain outdoors is the largest rafting company on the pigeon river.

00:28:53.940 --> 00:29:02.400 Olwen Claiborne: And it is the only one that has been continuously owned and operated by the guy, who was a former river guide went on to start his own company and.

00:29:02.970 --> 00:29:11.400 Olwen Claiborne: This week is currently building picnic tables and hanging out at the outpost making sure, everything is ready for opening on march six.

00:29:11.610 --> 00:29:27.000 Olwen Claiborne: And there's some real be driving the bus is he has two children have grown up there, his daughter spends her summers away from Vanderbilt guiding for us and his son aiden is about to be the first 16 year old river guide on the page and remember so it's a real family.

00:29:27.780 --> 00:29:33.270 Joseph McElroy: Tradition a family-owned recreation lodging all that sort of thing, so we come back.

00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:34.530 Olwen Claiborne: To have a campground.

00:29:35.370 --> 00:29:42.240 Joseph McElroy: When we come back we'll talk more about tourism and opportunities for fun and great smokies and rafting.

00:29:44.970 --> 00:29:47.130 Listening to talk radio.

00:32:32.190 --> 00:32:44.640 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklyn McElroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcast and I guest Olwen Claiborne um so we're talking about whitewater rafting you know.

00:32:45.330 --> 00:32:52.140 Joseph McElroy: When I was growing up, you know, I was growing up on the North Carolina side, so the place, we often into isn't that a handler.

00:32:52.620 --> 00:33:03.540 Joseph McElroy: Right and the Navajo outdoor Center How does that, how do you guys that complement each other in terms of tourism or compete or you know, are those rivers compare yeah.

00:33:04.080 --> 00:33:15.930 Olwen Claiborne: You know rivers are all different and there's great respect among the outfitters on the on the page and for the outfitters on the name of ALA no see of course for a long time has been the mothership of.

00:33:16.350 --> 00:33:26.520 Olwen Claiborne: whitewater tourism in the area and they're very different rivers, though the nano Haleigh is so beautiful, it is cold that water comes from.

00:33:26.790 --> 00:33:37.860 Olwen Claiborne: Far far beneath it comes from its pipe down from the bottom of the lake So when I was a guide on the Mahela in the late afternoon on July, you could see like.

00:33:38.310 --> 00:33:49.320 Olwen Claiborne: condensation rising up from the River on a hot hot day as the River was so cold my patent my crew used to complain that their feet were dumb and I used to say so.

00:33:50.430 --> 00:33:52.590 Olwen Claiborne: they're not me can't feel them what's the problem?

00:33:53.010 --> 00:34:08.760 Olwen Claiborne: Right that's not true, the pigeon is much warmer and at the largest rapid on the Nana Haleigh is a Class three, which is lesser it's the last one it's kind of the big grand finale on the day look for the commercial rafting.

00:34:09.510 --> 00:34:22.200 Olwen Claiborne: On the page and river almost most of the rapids or class threes with a couple of class fours thrown in so it's warmer it's broader and it's got bigger rapids.

00:34:22.530 --> 00:34:28.770 Joseph McElroy: got bigger rapids is a section of the net of hail is not allowed to the public right really that's.

00:34:28.980 --> 00:34:37.380 Olwen Claiborne: greater or lesser I you know the guys used to always talk about midnight runs on greater or lesser don't tell anybody don't try this at home.

00:34:37.830 --> 00:34:38.550 Olwen Claiborne: I don't want it.

00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:42.060 Olwen Claiborne: I don't see how they could have because they turn the water off at night.

00:34:43.410 --> 00:34:44.010 Olwen Claiborne: and cold.

00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:47.580 Olwen Claiborne: I challenged.

00:34:47.640 --> 00:34:54.210 Olwen Claiborne: The owner of my company Daniela say here's the way you did this midnight run say turn the water off and he said uh we did it.

00:34:55.980 --> 00:34:58.530 Joseph McElroy: I'll never know you know how to turn it off yeah.

00:34:59.250 --> 00:35:03.180 Olwen Claiborne: yeah the greater West or it's a spectacular rapid you can actually see it.

00:35:03.510 --> 00:35:16.650 Olwen Claiborne: When he walked across the foothill it in a seat belt footbridge it and i'll see to the farm to river left to walk downstream on the railroad tracks, you can see it, and if you just look at it marvel that anybody could ever run it that's classified.

00:35:16.980 --> 00:35:17.730 Joseph McElroy: I know I.

00:35:19.740 --> 00:35:22.950 Joseph McElroy: hear that the marines try to train on it yeah.

00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:23.820 Really.

00:35:25.080 --> 00:35:34.290 Joseph McElroy: yeah well when I was I don't know if they do now, but back then, I actually saw some guys looking like soldiers on it so yeah who knows yeah.

00:35:34.590 --> 00:35:37.800 Olwen Claiborne: it's a commercial takeout is upstream.

00:35:39.360 --> 00:35:52.230 Joseph McElroy: Now you know I wouldn't you know I I I almost I flipped off too many times i'm and that a hill class for but you know I knew that it wasn't I was a Class three I was not ready for Class by.

00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:55.260 Joseph McElroy: There was no way yeah so.

00:35:56.550 --> 00:36:03.240 Joseph McElroy: But you know, it was a good time, so how big is the tourism industry for whitewater rafting in the area?

00:36:04.890 --> 00:36:10.050 Olwen Claiborne: Well, as you know, the great smoky mountain National Park, is the most visited National Park in the country.

00:36:10.530 --> 00:36:28.320 Olwen Claiborne: So anything that has been offer something good to do when you're visiting the smoky mountains area is part of it, so we add to all the world-class activities there are to do in the mountainous region, and I feel really.

00:36:29.670 --> 00:36:35.370 Olwen Claiborne: proud about the fact that when people come to our area to vacation.

00:36:36.450 --> 00:36:45.030 Olwen Claiborne: Just like with how he just like with the sylvan hills, who were talking about earlier whitewater rafting is truly authentic to the mountains experience.

00:36:45.450 --> 00:36:50.310 Olwen Claiborne: You know, there are some fantastic wax museum, since a fantastic putt putt.

00:36:50.730 --> 00:36:57.180 Olwen Claiborne: places, and there are a lot of great brick and mortar attractions in our area for those who just want to go away and have some fun.

00:36:57.510 --> 00:37:04.380 Olwen Claiborne: But if you're like me and when you're traveling you want to get really up close and personal with the landscape that you're visiting.

00:37:04.770 --> 00:37:16.980 Olwen Claiborne: whitewater rafting is the perfect way to do it, you can't see the mountains from the kind of perspective that you can see from the surface of the rhythm I love spring rapid rafting because, in the spring.

00:37:17.370 --> 00:37:23.340 Olwen Claiborne: We recommend that you dress accordingly don't wear a Bikini lets you know 60 degrees out, but we do raft and spray.

00:37:23.790 --> 00:37:40.380 Olwen Claiborne: You can see all the wild flowers blooming at the slopes of the mountains and you can see the progression of green from the River surface to the high tops of the mountains and you can see, like the Princess trees, I believe it's a black locust we call of princess trees.

00:37:40.650 --> 00:37:41.880 Olwen Claiborne: They blue and purple.

00:37:42.060 --> 00:37:48.180 Olwen Claiborne: In the spring and you're floating along it's like we're no man, you know no car can go.

00:37:48.750 --> 00:37:53.880 Olwen Claiborne: They can see the mountains from places where only the boats can go as far as i'm concerned.

00:37:54.420 --> 00:38:02.820 Olwen Claiborne: Well, it is a very big aspect of the tourism business, and I believe the fact that the tourism business is so strong here in our mountains area.

00:38:03.450 --> 00:38:14.760 Olwen Claiborne: I believe that that contributes to the popularity of our river, it is one of those things you can do to get off the beaten path and have a truly authentic smoky mountains experience and i'm real proud of that.

00:38:15.210 --> 00:38:22.800 Joseph McElroy: So besides spring what are, what are the other seasons what's the value of the one of their uniqueness for wrath.

00:38:22.830 --> 00:38:34.680 Olwen Claiborne: Well i'll tell you just like that we actually offer two trips on the pigeon river which i'll tell you about later there's a whitewater trip and a scenic float trip there's three seasons to rafting on the pigeon river.

00:38:35.580 --> 00:38:41.730 Olwen Claiborne: there's the spring season and during the spring season, the hydro electric power plant that would work cooperatively with.

00:38:42.060 --> 00:38:54.960 Olwen Claiborne: Does not is not required to publish their water release schedule so we're operating on unpredictable water levels we don't promise whitewater in the spring, we do promise a river trip.

00:38:55.380 --> 00:39:06.780 Olwen Claiborne: That said, it is usually very rainy around here in the spring time, so I think it's safe to say that this spring water levels will be really higher than they are in the middle of the summer.

00:39:07.230 --> 00:39:16.680 Olwen Claiborne: Now for Memorial Day weekend to Labor day weekend the hydro electric power plant has a cooperative agreement with the rafting community to release water.

00:39:16.980 --> 00:39:26.100 Olwen Claiborne: on Tuesdays Wednesdays Thursdays and Saturdays from 11 o'clock to five o'clock we know it's going to happen, we can schedule trips accordingly and the water levels are regulated.

00:39:26.700 --> 00:39:37.560 Olwen Claiborne: So that isn't really good time, if you want to you want you want predictable resorts results when you're planning and nature outing that's the most predictable time.

00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:43.200 Olwen Claiborne: For rafting on the pigeon river and then we do continue to raft after Labor day that.

00:39:43.500 --> 00:39:59.580 Olwen Claiborne: Published water release schedule agreement is no longer so we are again on unpredictable water levels and, very often, as we know, living around here September can be somewhat dry, but the scenery is awesome it's a great way to see the colors change.

00:39:59.610 --> 00:40:09.450 Joseph McElroy: All the colors in the going through the forest and then was that all those colors in the mountains, is going to depend, as well as much as the spring, with a bit yeah.

00:40:10.050 --> 00:40:15.390 Olwen Claiborne: yeah and also, I will say that September and October around to your tend to be very warm yeah.

00:40:15.990 --> 00:40:21.990 Joseph McElroy: And if the doctor in October starts being wet again so you started getting seeing coming get some rain levels going yeah.

00:40:22.050 --> 00:40:28.410 Olwen Claiborne: yeah and master that most of the outfit outfitters ourselves also shut down about mid to end of October.

00:40:28.710 --> 00:40:38.100 Olwen Claiborne: yeah and that's true for a campground to so if anybody wants to just spend all of their state on the pigeon river, we do have a campground right next door.

00:40:38.460 --> 00:40:49.950 Olwen Claiborne: it's got rustic cabins tent sites are besides a swimming pool and some really pretty bathrooms and it's right on the bank of the pigeon it's right next door to our rafting company right.

00:40:50.310 --> 00:40:59.130 Joseph McElroy: So what you have you have different kinds of TRIPS, I was reading on your on your plate now once you go tell me about these different trips, if you guys provide.

00:40:59.670 --> 00:41:11.550 Olwen Claiborne: Okay, well, so our most popular upper pigeon river trip is the traditional three Fort ref and seat seven people we take ages eight and up.

00:41:12.030 --> 00:41:26.820 Olwen Claiborne: And that is what we call the upper pigeon river trip and i'm happy to tell you that Tripadvisor named the smoky mountain outdoors whitewater rafting upper river trip a top tier and experience in the United States.

00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:36.630 Olwen Claiborne: All right, this last year, I mean that ranks right up there with like a helicopter picnic on the grand Canyon rim, and was one of the other top 10 experiences so yes well.

00:41:37.290 --> 00:41:50.310 Olwen Claiborne: We call ourselves smoke it stands for smoky mountain outdoors we also offer the extreme wrap up or pigeon river rafting trip we call it smoke, for it, it is a much smaller boat.

00:41:50.820 --> 00:42:03.990 Olwen Claiborne: There are two ports in the boat minimum of three people maximum of four So the idea is that smaller boats make bigger hit so you're going through the same rapid at a smaller boat it looks bigger to you.

00:42:04.620 --> 00:42:11.970 Olwen Claiborne: And the requirements for that are aged 12 minimum minimum age of 12 and the ability to swell because you could swim.

00:42:13.410 --> 00:42:20.220 Olwen Claiborne: that's it for our upper pictured river trips is the smell for it and the traditional upper pigeon river trip.

00:42:20.670 --> 00:42:28.530 Olwen Claiborne: The lower pitching is an option for families and very young children or people who want to get on the River but they're not so sure about whitewater.

00:42:29.310 --> 00:42:38.580 Olwen Claiborne: It offers basically class one and two rapids class one is basically flat water with a current running through it to have some way of trains, there is one Class three get the end.

00:42:39.420 --> 00:42:53.370 Olwen Claiborne: would take ages three and up on that one, and it is beautiful relaxing it's a great way to see the scenery wildlife nature talk with your guides have splashed by the little kids love it.

00:42:53.910 --> 00:43:01.410 Olwen Claiborne: And for those who want to try hand it paddling their own boats, we do have some super stable inflatable kayaks we will.

00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:15.420 Olwen Claiborne: Let people take kayaks out instead of rafting they go in a group with a guide so they're not just let loose on the lower pigeon river and so that's another option so.

00:43:15.990 --> 00:43:29.340 Olwen Claiborne: Ever pigeon extreme lower pigeon kayaks and then, if you just want some more the full river, so you can wrap the upper river get out and have lunch and then raptor kayak the lower river.

00:43:29.760 --> 00:43:37.470 Joseph McElroy: That sounds fabulous okay so we're gonna take a break down we'll come back we'll finish up with some insights to help make experiences better.

00:43:38.010 --> 00:43:39.060 Olwen Claiborne: Okay fantastic.

00:43:40.980 --> 00:43:41.850 and listening to.

00:43:46.110 --> 00:43:46.590 ke.

00:45:57.390 --> 00:46:10.830 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklyn McElroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcast and we're talking whitewater rafting with Olwen Clairborne of smoky mountain outdoors so Olwen, 

00:46:12.060 --> 00:46:20.280 Joseph McElroy: If people are coming to go rafting as part of their experience in the smoky mountains What else do you recommend they experience?

00:46:20.940 --> 00:46:34.050 Olwen Claiborne: Thank you for asking we actually work with partners our partners plying works smoky mountains climbing works is a leader in zip lining they are worldwide later they.

00:46:34.500 --> 00:46:37.770 Olwen Claiborne: Have a counterpart climb works in Hawaii.

00:46:38.310 --> 00:46:51.300 Olwen Claiborne: climb work smoky mountains is about a 20-minute drive from our riverside outpost and we do offer a package if anybody wants to book both a zip line trip and rafting trip, at the same time, they get a special price.

00:46:52.170 --> 00:46:57.990 Olwen Claiborne: I love climbing works zip lining your feet never touched the ground, you are up in the mountain tops.

00:46:58.740 --> 00:47:10.890 Olwen Claiborne: Their guides are fantastic and it's about a two and a half hour to hour, depending on the trip that you take so for what we recommend to people is, if you are saying in the smoky mountains region.

00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:18.960 Olwen Claiborne: You might go zip lining in the morning and go rafting in the afternoon or zip lining one day and rafting the next day, or vice versa.

00:47:19.350 --> 00:47:29.730 Olwen Claiborne: So that's a really good combination, we have a lot of friends that offer other adventure trips i'll put in a quick plug for my friend Bestival colonists and a walk in the woods if.

00:47:30.060 --> 00:47:42.660 Olwen Claiborne: People who are nature-minded want to come and spend all their time in the mountains, they can take a guided hike with a walk in the woods i'll be happy to provide you with business contact information if you'd like to speak with your for your podcast.

00:47:43.620 --> 00:47:45.210 Joseph McElroy: I would, I would definitely love that.

00:47:46.320 --> 00:47:51.330 Joseph McElroy: Town what what what would be a good thing for people to do in the town.

00:47:52.140 --> 00:47:58.650 Olwen Claiborne: Oh gosh Gatlinburg is so full of worldwide attractions, I would get in trouble if I started.

00:48:00.360 --> 00:48:18.750 Olwen Claiborne: I didn't mention them all yeah I will say, though, that the one of the to three newest premier destinations in Gatlinburg and you're not going to find this in the other municipalities in the smoky mountain region are an akita.

00:48:19.680 --> 00:48:29.610 Olwen Claiborne: So is the Gatlinburg sky park and over Gatlinburg, all three of those destinations provide mountain top views of the surrounding area.

00:48:31.410 --> 00:48:31.860 Joseph McElroy: ski.

00:48:32.400 --> 00:48:33.360 Joseph McElroy: ski slope right.

00:48:33.420 --> 00:48:34.260 Olwen Claiborne: Yes, the only.

00:48:35.610 --> 00:48:37.980 Olwen Claiborne: that's the only one in East Tennessee.

00:48:38.280 --> 00:48:40.740 Olwen Claiborne: So, have a good day I had a good year this.

00:48:41.310 --> 00:48:46.380 Joseph McElroy: Cat the cat lucci isn't one and Maggie valley and they're like yeah for this falco and I think.

00:48:47.610 --> 00:48:54.990 Joseph McElroy: In the nation right something like that there, they are the most southern ski resorts I think they're there.

00:48:55.050 --> 00:49:01.620 Olwen Claiborne: I believe Catalooche and over Gatlinburg have claims to fame I would be remiss if I tried to say what they weren't.

00:49:05.730 --> 00:49:13.740 Joseph McElroy: we'd have to make sure we do the research on that, but they give us some interesting things about it, and they have a pretty long season from November until March.

00:49:14.250 --> 00:49:27.990 Joseph McElroy: And when it's snowing like it's been now and it's not only the main snow they have they have this natural snow cover that goes for these mountains that are just glorious but anyway that so when you can't be wrapped it wrapped in the winter you come here you go ski it.

00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:30.420 Olwen Claiborne: had all year round.

00:49:30.660 --> 00:49:31.350 Exactly.

00:49:33.150 --> 00:49:35.760 Olwen Claiborne: And I will say to about the guided heights.

00:49:36.600 --> 00:49:42.300 Olwen Claiborne: I know quite a few people who are fantastic I can guides I believe you're going to be speaking with one maybe next week.

00:49:44.250 --> 00:49:52.080 Olwen Claiborne: There is more to the forest than what meets the eye so taking a guided hike does enhance your experience.

00:49:52.320 --> 00:50:03.390 Olwen Claiborne: I used to be like, why would anybody want to guide when they can just go walk the trail which you absolutely can, but when you go with a hiking guide you've got someone that can tell you about the history of what you're seeing.

00:50:03.630 --> 00:50:04.350 Olwen Claiborne: And all these.

00:50:04.440 --> 00:50:12.510 Olwen Claiborne: All these trails were originally trade routes so there's a lot of history there, and there are a lot of stone fences and things that there's great stories behind.

00:50:12.750 --> 00:50:24.930 Olwen Claiborne: They can also name a lot of them can name the birds and the plants tell you may maybe some of the medicinal or edible components of some of the plants, so it does really enhance the experience that have a guide.

00:50:25.200 --> 00:50:27.810 Joseph McElroy: and your guide on the water doesn't same sort of thing right.

00:50:28.110 --> 00:50:29.730 Olwen Claiborne: talks about a store do.

00:50:30.090 --> 00:50:41.850 Olwen Claiborne: And our guides are my favorite part of my job they are such fascinating people they're superheroes for one I was only a rough guide for a little while it is a very, very challenging job.

00:50:42.210 --> 00:50:52.290 Olwen Claiborne: Is physical, you have to be a great people person you deal with a lot of jittery families you deal with you know scared moms you deal with a lot of sort of emotional.

00:50:53.520 --> 00:51:00.540 Olwen Claiborne: input and you've got to keep everybody calm and help them have a great time sometimes you have to deal with with them.

00:51:01.350 --> 00:51:07.560 Olwen Claiborne: things that happen people fall in occasionally we do offer some pre rafting.

00:51:08.130 --> 00:51:23.910 Olwen Claiborne: instruction as to what to do and what to expect doesn't happen very often, but it does happen and they're the ones that are ultimately responsible for the safety of our guests, and they have the best stories, a lot of them are adventure travel professionals and they.

00:51:25.530 --> 00:51:29.100 Joseph McElroy: can't get much into that, but you are known as an incubator for adventure travel.

00:51:30.630 --> 00:51:32.310 Olwen Claiborne: Training is really, really good.

00:51:32.460 --> 00:51:48.270 Joseph McElroy: I really speaks speaks greatly to your your guys professionalism as an organization, so that impresses me so um what any future plans for smoky mountain or Doris what is our what is what's going to happen rapping in general and the smokies over the next few years.

00:51:49.080 --> 00:51:52.560 Olwen Claiborne: yeah that's a really good question I wish I could easily answer it.

00:51:53.640 --> 00:52:01.230 Olwen Claiborne: We don't have something that's broke that needs to be fixed you know the old saying if it ain't broke don't make to fix it.

00:52:02.130 --> 00:52:12.750 Olwen Claiborne: What we want to do is continue offering award-winning world-class rafting trips and continue to enhance the experience with the great stories and suggestions that our guides offer.

00:52:13.050 --> 00:52:25.080 Olwen Claiborne: We do have a campground right next door, we are expanding on the capacity of that game ramp you know, during the days of covered outdoor adventures have been incredibly popular so.

00:52:26.250 --> 00:52:31.980 Olwen Claiborne: What we wanted, what we want to do in the future is keep being as good as we are right now, and never let up.

00:52:32.610 --> 00:52:35.250 Joseph McElroy: Well, thank you all for being on our podcast.

00:52:36.630 --> 00:52:40.920 Joseph McElroy: How if somebody wants to contact you to give me more information, how would they do that.

00:52:41.520 --> 00:52:46.590 Olwen Claiborne: Oh thanks for asking you can find our website is smoky mountain rafting calm.

00:52:47.520 --> 00:53:07.140 Olwen Claiborne: And through that website all kinds of contact information there's contact us there's a chat capability, you can book your trips directly through smoky mountain rafting COM, or you can call our reservations office at one 800 771 raft 107 717238.

00:53:08.280 --> 00:53:13.500 Olwen Claiborne: If you'd like to email us, you can email trips at smoky mountain rafting.com.

00:53:13.890 --> 00:53:15.570 Olwen Claiborne: There you go i'll say.

00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:25.950 Olwen Claiborne: I would be remiss if I didn't put in a plug for large groups rafting is a fantastic group activity family reunions wedding trips it's a fantastic group.

00:53:25.950 --> 00:53:27.840 Joseph McElroy: Actually training that we got.

00:53:27.870 --> 00:53:30.210 Joseph McElroy: To get more corporate training in the mountains and that's.

00:53:31.230 --> 00:53:44.490 Joseph McElroy: yeah so that's it's also a great adventure for people like that, so thank you i'm going to finish up with a little shout out, we are part of the gateway to smoke these podcasts originated where traveler magazine network.

00:53:45.870 --> 00:53:57.450 Joseph McElroy: We developed a destination, have called the great smoky mountains on where traveler America, where traveler is an 80 year old magazine that you find in many hotels around the world.

00:53:58.080 --> 00:54:08.100 Joseph McElroy: specializing things to do where to go and expert advice on what to do in town well now they're doing regions in the smoky mountain great smoky mountains National Park area is the first region.

00:54:08.640 --> 00:54:21.810 Joseph McElroy: And we will find lots of listings about things to do, as well as in depth articles from experts and locals about what to do in the mountains, and of course we will be putting these podcasts up there.

00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:31.680 Joseph McElroy: as well, I also own the middle art motel in Maggie valley North Carolina, which is a motel chic roadside.

00:54:32.190 --> 00:54:39.600 Joseph McElroy: Experience but with a large recreation area, a couple streams on the property debilitation it's close to all the things that we talked about.

00:54:39.870 --> 00:54:48.030 Joseph McElroy: it's very close to getting more probably about an hour an hour and a half drive you know you can go do everything and all the different places that we talked about.

00:54:48.930 --> 00:54:57.330 Joseph McElroy: So if you're not looking for a campground experience try a roadside motel it's also covered and friendly because you drive right up the door, we have contactless.

00:54:58.680 --> 00:54:59.250 Joseph McElroy: check in.

00:55:00.330 --> 00:55:06.930 Joseph McElroy: So we'd like to say the smoky mountains smoky mountain adventure starts with where you stay.

00:55:08.460 --> 00:55:13.890 Joseph McElroy: And it gives you the base from which to go and we are a great base to travel everywhere.

00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:33.690 Joseph McElroy: um I also own a directory site that includes not only commercial but also natural wonders, and you know and places to go that have no commercial interests and it's called smokies adventure.com it also talks about the history, the smokies and you can also get trail maps and.

00:55:35.160 --> 00:55:45.660 Joseph McElroy: books and things that will help your adventures in the smokies there, we also feature things where you have really outdoor weddings and rustic adventures and stuff.

00:55:46.320 --> 00:56:00.360 Joseph McElroy: But not necessarily dramatically commercial for the large scale endeavors are not going to do it, but it's for those things that people would love to investigate and find to complement their experiences and smoking now.

00:56:02.490 --> 00:56:03.210 Joseph McElroy: and

00:56:06.210 --> 00:56:22.260 Joseph McElroy: let's see you can find more about this podcast at gateway to the smokies fun all right, where we will feature our guests, so we will feature podcast, we will also be publishing schedules of.

00:56:23.280 --> 00:56:30.870 Joseph McElroy: Water or upcoming guests and there's A newsletter that we've started that you can subscribe to, and know about upcoming.

00:56:32.700 --> 00:56:43.110 Joseph McElroy: Events as well as the upcoming podcasts and will also be providing links to resources to help you, with your smoky mountain adventure and then finally.

00:56:43.800 --> 00:56:50.940 Joseph McElroy: This podcast is originated on the talk and talk radio dot nyc network and it's.

00:56:51.600 --> 00:57:02.850 Joseph McElroy: it's a wonderful network of podcasts related to many different evers and you should stick around for the one after this, which is about exploring nyc, which is a really great podcast if you're.

00:57:03.360 --> 00:57:09.480 Joseph McElroy: If you're listening to this live okay again thank everybody for joining us thank my guests all and clay born.

00:57:09.750 --> 00:57:20.310 Joseph McElroy: And we will see you next week, but we're gonna be talking to keep gardens and his partner Craig and Keith name has come up a couple times a day about hiking in the smokies see you there.

Our special guest in this episode is Bob Plott he is an award-winning author of four books -- that have been sold in all 50 states and 11 foreign countries -- as well as numerous magazine articles, a public speaker, and a Historian. We will be talking about the History of Plott Hounds in the Smokies.

Tune in for this fun conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.



Today’s episode will discuss hounds, more specifically, Plott Hounds, and will feature guest Bob Plott. Joseph tells stories of hounds from his childhood. Reminiscing on these stories and his family, Joseph recites a poem that reminds him of his father. Bob introduces himself and the history of his family within the mountains. He discusses realizing the significance of his family after having a son, deciding that he would make sure to tell the stories of his family. Bob’s 3rd great-grandfather traveled to America by boat, likely with nothing but his dogs.

Bob’s great grandfather supposedly brought his dogs with him to bring to a German settlement, to be used for hunting. By 1750, the Plotts were settled in North Carolina. Not long after, in 1803, Henry Plott migrated to Western North Carolina. In his first season in the Smokies, Henry nearly died of cold, crediting his dogs with saving his life. The Plott Hounds are set apart from other hounds not only by their story but by their Germanic roots as well as traits such as their intelligence and loyalty. As a pup, they can be acclimated to many sorts of lifestyles. Bob and Joseph discuss the physical appearance of the hounds. In the mountains, the hounds hunted bears primarily but would kill a wide variety of animals as their owners needed food. Living in the mountains dog food was sparsely found, so owners needed to make their own, making a special cornbread. The hounds were used for more than just hunting though, protecting their households and helping herd livestock. Joseph and Bob exchange stories of dogs protecting their owners. The Plott hounds are woven into the history not only of the Smoky Mountains but the country, with many bringing their hounds with them as they migrated across the country.

Bob discusses how the hounds have come full circle over the past 250 years as both the dogs and culture have evolved. While the dogs can serve a variety of purposes, they adapt to theirs while growing up and keep those habits throughout their lives. Bob delves further into his family history, describing how they brought these hounds to fame.

Bob has written 5 books about the hounds and is currently in Maggie Valley, surrounded by his family’s history. Parts of the park now bear the plot name. While it may be named after the Plott family, Bob credits many other families with spreading the breed and making it more than a regional name. Bob discusses his new book, coming out on March 15th, which he wrote with his son, Jacob. The book discusses the railroad, its creation, and its effect on the culture. Bob plans to continue to run programs such as PlottFest, educating people about these stories. Bob can be contacted through his website, BobPlott.com, as well as his social media channels.

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TRANSCRIPT

00:00:38.010 –> 00:00:50.070 Joseph McElroy: Thanks for joining us on this week’s episode of gateway to the smokies this podcast is about america’s most visited National Park, the great smoky mountains national park and surrounding towns.

00:00:50.610 –> 00:01:03.330 Joseph McElroy: This area is filled with ancient natural beauty a deep storied history and a rich mountain culture that we will explore weekly with episodes that you can enjoy at your leisure.

00:01:04.230 –> 00:01:17.580 Joseph McElroy: I am Joseph Franklin McElroy a man of the world, but also with deep roots in these mountains my family’s lived in the great smoky mountains, for almost 200 years my businesses and travel, but my heart isn’t kosher.

00:01:19.290 –> 00:01:22.020 Joseph McElroy: Now today we’re gonna be talking about how.

00:01:23.220 –> 00:01:31.080 Joseph McElroy: Specifically, the state dog in North Carolina the plot out my guest is Bob Plott and he is a third.

00:01:31.590 –> 00:01:45.990 Joseph McElroy: The third great grandson of George Plott first brought the Plott bear hounds to America in the mid 18th century and he’s the great great nephew of Henry Clark who introduced the breed of the great smoky mountains in the 90s, and the early 1800s.

00:01:47.070 –> 00:02:00.360 Joseph McElroy: But first I want to tell you a little bit of what pound hounds mean commitment to me growing up in the smoky mountains now is associate pounds with my grandfather mcilroy he was.

00:02:01.590 –> 00:02:07.080 Joseph McElroy: an avid hunter he hunted raccoons and fox amongst other animals.

00:02:08.640 –> 00:02:17.310 Joseph McElroy: He he was so avid he built himself a cabin on wheels, and he would pull on his old model.

00:02:17.880 –> 00:02:30.930 Joseph McElroy: To even down roads to to go to different Hutton events, I remember the remember riding with him and he would he would drive up the mountain and his team team model forward with the guests and he turned the gas off to float down.

00:02:30.990 –> 00:02:31.500 man.

00:02:32.910 –> 00:02:49.350 Joseph McElroy: So uh but he always had dogs on this farm when I visited and I always wanted to go hunting, with him, but he he sort of to sort of got sick and then he then he had died before we could, but I remember.

00:02:50.490 –> 00:03:03.540 Joseph McElroy: I remember you know I don’t remember before you know, a period of time, because my family and I lived moved down to Texas for a short two or three years, and I was like in the first through third grade first grade second grade.

00:03:04.950 –> 00:03:18.060 Joseph McElroy: But when we came back with one of the first things they do this is good as introduced back to her relatives and they send us over to my grandparents for a couple days now, he came to pick us up and his truck that T model and.

00:03:19.170 –> 00:03:26.250 Joseph McElroy: He put me in the front seat and drove us we’re driving towards the farm, but he stopped by this stone building.

00:03:27.330 –> 00:03:37.890 Joseph McElroy: And he was jumped out ran in and he came out a few minutes later with a with a bloody bag that was bolden with stuff I didn’t know what it was.

00:03:39.780 –> 00:03:49.470 Joseph McElroy: And he got in the truck and he looked at me he looked at me and stern he always had this stern look, he was an old farmer and stone mountain man he looked at me go I got a.

00:03:50.040 –> 00:03:56.880 Joseph McElroy: pig and poke photo photo right opinion about her dog no idea what he was talking about.

00:03:57.810 –> 00:04:04.200 Joseph McElroy: All right, yeah I didn’t understand it, I just come from Texas, where there was a slow southern drawl right.

00:04:04.590 –> 00:04:16.770 Joseph McElroy: He was doing that found past mountain without the constants on the end and I just I didn’t get it, and I was petrified because here’s his bag and bloody moans and I didn’t know what he wanted me to do with it, what was for.

00:04:17.790 –> 00:04:27.060 Joseph McElroy: us, so I was drunk we were driving to another 15 minutes to the farm and when I was like what’s going to happen, why do I got this what am I supposed to do.

00:04:28.920 –> 00:04:34.380 Joseph McElroy: We get to the we get to the meat we get to the farm, it is, and then he stops and it looks amazing.

00:04:35.610 –> 00:04:38.490 Joseph McElroy: Go on then, what and he said well.

00:04:41.910 –> 00:04:54.900 Joseph McElroy: Not figured out he said something like pigs for the Pope if pigs in the Pope for the dog, which was bones in the in the book he’d gotten pig bones or something bones and put them in the bag and growing from the butcher and we’re going to feed the dogs.

00:04:55.650 –> 00:04:56.010 yeah.

00:04:57.210 –> 00:05:04.500 Joseph McElroy: So that was that was a reintroduction to mountain language I quickly picked up you know, being a young kid.

00:05:05.670 –> 00:05:07.380 Joseph McElroy: But it was also about dogs.

00:05:07.410 –> 00:05:24.210 Joseph McElroy: It was about 10 pounds in the mountains, I remember, we used to have a have a one time he had he evidently Cox on fox pucks and put them in the barn and I guess he did that to train the dogs on the smell of fox right.

00:05:24.480 –> 00:05:24.870 Right.

00:05:26.040 –> 00:05:32.970 Joseph McElroy: I wanted to play within a smell the high heaven, I never I can still smell that, for as long.

00:05:33.990 –> 00:05:40.380 Joseph McElroy: As I, to this day, I can remember being just totally like I haven’t walked out there and just about throw up as I came out.

00:05:41.430 –> 00:05:46.650 Joseph McElroy: But you know he always, let us be involved, he taught me he used to talk a lot about hunting and I learned.

00:05:47.070 –> 00:05:59.400 Joseph McElroy: A lot of little things at the time and I always wanted to do, but I never got the chance, but as part of my culture, you know my dad was busy work and he never really got to go hunt and lunch after you know after he came back so.

00:06:00.960 –> 00:06:16.440 Joseph McElroy: it’s my it’s one of the intense memories of my grandfather and I found this poem that that made me really think of him, is it sort of as a thought memorable it’s called memories, just to come by by caleb spot Scott.

00:06:18.060 –> 00:06:31.170 Joseph McElroy: Many nights we chased through the woods Lazarus that in me through the hills and hollers river bottoms and mode, we talk quietly about all sorts of things life hounds and girls.

00:06:31.800 –> 00:06:45.930 Joseph McElroy: kinds of things a boy can’t say at home around mom and the girls chasing the matte black mask banded oh What a wonderful game sometimes he wins, sometimes we win the odds are about to say.

00:06:47.850 –> 00:06:56.040 Joseph McElroy: The silence is broken with allow dying ball that’s Lazarus struck, we know it won’t be long at all.

00:06:56.610 –> 00:07:03.600 Joseph McElroy: I know that is smiling as We walked slowly to the truck the odds are with us tonight and the coon was a look.

00:07:04.590 –> 00:07:25.920 Joseph McElroy: Now the hunters over as a snow begins to fall school will be out tomorrow it’s pretty heavy after all wishing grandpa could be here too, but we knew he watched it all and many nights here after through the forest and the creeks grandpa watching over us Lazarus dad and me.

00:07:28.290 –> 00:07:40.740 Joseph McElroy: As that’s that’s a pretty cool is, I think it encompasses that that sort of a time and the other family, the importance of the of the of the.

00:07:42.150 –> 00:08:02.910 Joseph McElroy: hound dogs in mountain culture and hunting to men growing up there, and the traditions pass on for in the family, you know and dogs as well you’re going to tell us Bob is pretty important into the you know into the end of the founding of the smoky mountains in the settlement of it.

00:08:04.410 –> 00:08:05.160 Joseph McElroy: So.

00:08:06.360 –> 00:08:11.550 Joseph McElroy: Why don’t you tell us a little bit about your background and your family history with the blah blah house.

00:08:12.750 –> 00:08:18.720 Bob Plott: Well, you know my background is a lot like yours, Joseph I grew up around it and my father would take me to see.

00:08:19.320 –> 00:08:25.290 Bob Plott: Are these old timers that were realities of our sometimes they were just friends, but more often than not they were relatives.

00:08:25.740 –> 00:08:31.380 Bob Plott: And I remember vividly spending time with me and like home lot of plot.

00:08:31.920 –> 00:08:43.050 Bob Plott: looks like that, and it was for me that time was a boy that was like going to a kid today going to see an nba star or nfl star or something you know you just treat these guys with such respect.

00:08:43.590 –> 00:08:46.230 Bob Plott: Of what they knew and what they had done and then, of course.

00:08:47.220 –> 00:08:54.660 Bob Plott: know that you’re even related to him in the head, you know that you might have something to do or could have something to do with perpetuating their legacy, I mean.

00:08:55.020 –> 00:09:08.940 Bob Plott: I don’t take any credit for any of it, I just tried to record it and pass it on but it’s a really remarkable to be around this type of folks and hear those type of stories because that’s I was always that weird key imagine does love to be around that sort of thing to.

00:09:09.900 –> 00:09:12.900 Joseph McElroy: yeah a little bit meteor weird tears around that time.

00:09:14.670 –> 00:09:28.380 Joseph McElroy: To hear those stories yeah so so you you found out about the history of your family history, I guess that was it was it something that was just talked about or did you find out when you were a little bit older.

00:09:29.460 –> 00:09:34.200 Joseph McElroy: And what kind of what kind of honoring of the traditions your family have.

00:09:35.040 –> 00:09:43.680 Bob Plott: Well, we knew about it from the star, but I think for me personally, it was something I kind of took for granted, initially, because when I was really young.

00:09:44.220 –> 00:09:49.200 Bob Plott: You know, everybody was still doing it, I mean there was bomb plot was still alive her plot was alive.

00:09:49.650 –> 00:09:56.340 Bob Plott: lot of the guys, who had been complete the dogs are registered back in 1946 for the first time, you know they were still around.

00:09:56.730 –> 00:10:07.470 Bob Plott: And they had sons and grandsons and healthy, just like myself and, and so there was never any doubt in my mind that was not going to be continued and perpetuated.

00:10:07.920 –> 00:10:16.830 Bob Plott: And then, when I had my own son my my first my son was born in 93 really made me realize that no one had really told these stories and.

00:10:17.490 –> 00:10:25.530 Bob Plott: Those guys were gone now and my father was call him uncle was gone volume was gone hub was gone and I really wanted to try to to honor them.

00:10:25.920 –> 00:10:32.820 Bob Plott: And let people know about what they send me misconceptions about in so many things that have been told him correctly.

00:10:33.450 –> 00:10:46.020 Bob Plott: I just really wanted to make sure the story with told correctly and to dispel some of the stereotypes, because so often you hear all these things about the mountain he’ll be liza don’t know anything, nothing could be further from the truth.

00:10:46.890 –> 00:10:59.520 Joseph McElroy: So um so the story, I read a little bit of it, George plot and his brother came started out on this journey now why did they decide decide, and how they do that and bring a bunch of dog.

00:11:00.540 –> 00:11:08.400 Bob Plott: Well there’s there’s it’s interesting there’s a couple different versions of it and I stuck with it, when I wrote my first book I stuck with the version that.

00:11:09.000 –> 00:11:21.660 Bob Plott: old people who told me now there’s other versions that say that maybe they came with their parents, but I was always led to believe that my third great grandfather came here with his brother and they.

00:11:22.740 –> 00:11:33.420 Bob Plott: their father was a gamekeeper and didn’t have a whole lot of money that he gave them the Holy possessions of real value he had, which was the plot dogs and they brought five of them with them.

00:11:33.870 –> 00:11:40.410 Bob Plott: On the ship and one of the brothers died in route was buried at sea, so he was my third great grandfather.

00:11:41.910 –> 00:11:49.440 Bob Plott: You know blown probably couldn’t speak English and just with Ian the dogs and his brother David now you know.

00:11:50.040 –> 00:11:58.650 Bob Plott: that’s one version of the story it’s a story is that he came with his parents That may be true, too, but I stuck with what i’ve been told, and either way they brought the dogs with them.

00:11:59.130 –> 00:12:06.150 Bob Plott: And supposedly five dogs and those dogs kind of became the Foundation stock for the plot home that we know today.

00:12:06.870 –> 00:12:08.640 Joseph McElroy: They came into Philadelphia right.

00:12:08.970 –> 00:12:26.940 Bob Plott: They did, and you know the the conditions on that ship were so terrible you know people glamorize romanticize the migration of immigrants to America, but it was just terrible, I mean the food was rancid water, it was terrible people are dying in beta see dislike.

00:12:28.740 –> 00:12:41.640 Bob Plott: Right great grandfather’s uncle and supposedly the ship was so stunk so badly that when he came into the harbor they wouldn’t even let them Doc they’ve started, bringing the people in the stuff in there to.

00:12:42.270 –> 00:12:47.880 Bob Plott: to just a few at a time and they assign an allegiance to the King and and then go the other way.

00:12:49.650 –> 00:12:56.100 Joseph McElroy: And where they originally those dogs originally big game Bob dogs back in back in the homeowner.

00:12:56.970 –> 00:13:08.880 Bob Plott: In Germany, yes, there was not bear in Germany, but there was bore, and so they were you generally used for that and then of course the gatekeepers were used to to be kind of guards game wardens.

00:13:10.530 –> 00:13:16.050 Bob Plott: do a little bit of everything to delete the breeding programs for the barons that they work for.

00:13:16.800 –> 00:13:24.900 Joseph McElroy: Oh well, when we come back we’re going to find out how they did it in the smoky mountains and a little bit about what makes them special reads alright.

00:13:25.320 –> 00:13:26.940 Bob Plott: Alright sounds good.

00:16:26.610 –> 00:16:41.880 Joseph McElroy: howdy is Joseph Franklin McElroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcast with my guest Bob Plott so Bob you’re great you’re great great grandfather right the third great grandfather right.

00:16:42.900 –> 00:16:58.290 Joseph McElroy: came into Philadelphia, with five with five pounds after having adventures voyage, with a bit of tragedy, and he established himself there How did the migration occurred come get those smoky mountain.

00:16:59.430 –> 00:17:06.210 Bob Plott: Well that’s another interesting story Joseph a again there’s two versions, but dispersion I was always told as a boy was.

00:17:06.660 –> 00:17:14.640 Bob Plott: That they were another reason I brought the dogs with and worth was to be contract hunters for the German settlement in new Bern North Carolina.

00:17:15.330 –> 00:17:25.080 Bob Plott: And it was the largest German settlement on the east coast, but they didn’t really have a and all sorts of craftsmen, but they didn’t have any hunters to provide food for them.

00:17:25.530 –> 00:17:38.670 Bob Plott: So supposedly the that the arts were hired to come in and provide food for now another version is that they came down the old wagon road and ended up like a lot of.

00:17:39.150 –> 00:17:53.460 Bob Plott: The German pioneers did in round Salzburg concord area either way they definitely ended up there at some point whether it came with it from new Bern or from Pennsylvania, but either way by 1750.

00:17:54.510 –> 00:18:05.370 Bob Plott: Sometime around that time they were around concord North Carolina to farm established there and Henry plot, one of my grandfather great grandfather sons, who was my great great uncle.

00:18:06.030 –> 00:18:18.150 Bob Plott: He then decided to migrate to Western North Carolina to find more land and hunting there and farmland and so he and his brother in law came to haywood county in about.

00:18:18.870 –> 00:18:30.600 Bob Plott: Probably run 1803 guess some people say a little bit earlier than that some people say 1803 and four but 1805 he’s showing up on census records and he has a farm here and.

00:18:31.320 –> 00:18:48.150 Bob Plott: He had a very industrious man help with the Community love, is he had a great week we’ll worry instructed to make sure that his wife, he also had so Randy and that his wife was made sure she inherited steel, so I thought that was kind of interested to.

00:18:48.600 –> 00:19:00.000 Joseph McElroy: Oh that’s interesting, we had a we had a show Dave angel over the elevated that mountain distillery told us about the moonshine and have brandy from you know fruits and stuff was made essentially the same way.

00:19:02.130 –> 00:19:06.870 Joseph McElroy: That was a there was a higher ticket item people be out did that quite often.

00:19:07.110 –> 00:19:15.360 Bob Plott: Absolutely, he ended receipt book with all that there but, for the first year, the first season, he was here was rough he actually ended up over near canton.

00:19:15.810 –> 00:19:24.180 Bob Plott: And just about froze to death, that winner and accredited the dogs will save any cross over the page and gap and went down to the confluence of dicks creek.

00:19:24.750 –> 00:19:33.180 Bob Plott: In Richmond Greek and that’s where a plot creek is today, and where the plot blossoms and valleys and that’s kind of where the breed became famous.

00:19:33.990 –> 00:19:38.760 Joseph McElroy: So what sets the plot bound breed apart from other purebred dog.

00:19:39.870 –> 00:19:49.950 Bob Plott: Well, one thing if, from a bloodline standpoint is there Germanic groups in that most of your American purebred dogs were the scene from breeds and the British Isles.

00:19:50.430 –> 00:19:58.320 Bob Plott: But I would argue that it’s their intelligence, as far as physical characteristics, they have a beautiful brindle coat.

00:19:59.010 –> 00:20:08.100 Bob Plott: But it’s that intelligence that tenacity that loyalty and multi purpose capabilities and make them so special, but I would further argue that.

00:20:08.670 –> 00:20:12.900 Bob Plott: There are other dogs that have some of those same traits as well and they’re certainly great.

00:20:13.260 –> 00:20:22.260 Bob Plott: dogs and other breeds, but the plot hand story is so unique to Joseph it’s it’s it’s really classic Americana it goes along with the.

00:20:22.710 –> 00:20:31.110 Bob Plott: Constant migration and Western migration and pioneers and you know, in the 1700s 1900s this was the frontier, and from that point forward.

00:20:31.710 –> 00:20:40.170 Bob Plott: books were hitting the Texas Arkansas Colorado Washington state later and they took the dogs with them, because they were such an integral part of their lives.

00:20:41.130 –> 00:20:50.250 Joseph McElroy: right they had they were pretty good at being protected right, how are they how they personality wise compared to the other hound dogs out there.

00:20:50.730 –> 00:20:54.240 Bob Plott: Well, you know I laugh because there’s truth to this.

00:20:55.260 –> 00:21:07.350 Bob Plott: they’re very fiercely loyal I mean once you have a puppet you raise that puppy will he or she will be just bad for you and you know I can tell you stories of myself and other people who.

00:21:09.240 –> 00:21:21.360 Bob Plott: Talks may love their parents or other people in the family, but at the end of the day, if I was going to be disciplined or if anybody in my family was going to be disciplined father or mother would have to put the dog.

00:21:23.280 –> 00:21:30.810 Bob Plott: The dog when you know the tack room or something said so yeah so it was always just fiercely loyal and so so smart.

00:21:31.230 –> 00:21:48.180 Bob Plott: And they’re just a joy to be around, but in the end the good thing about them is they they’re such have saved me skills they can be acclimated to any sort of lifestyle, if you know when they’re when they’re have that DNA to hunt and the trail into a lot need a lot of activity.

00:21:49.080 –> 00:21:53.490 Joseph McElroy: Well, what would you say, is the most common look for well it looked like.

00:21:54.300 –> 00:22:04.800 Bob Plott: Well they’re known primarily for this beautiful randall coke and brindle can come in two different variations, you can come with a dark base coat in a light kind of tiger stripe.

00:22:05.250 –> 00:22:13.620 Bob Plott: And can come with a light base coat and a darker tiger stripe that’s kind of the predominant color that 5% of your.

00:22:14.190 –> 00:22:24.870 Bob Plott: plans will be Maltese or what we call it blue merle or a book scan and then you’ll see an occasional saddleback black saddleback with a solid black back and.

00:22:25.380 –> 00:22:37.200 Bob Plott: Brenda legs and intellect do later braiding there you see some black plans now a lot more than you used to because some people took the books can out of the breeding pool and that result of map but.

00:22:37.830 –> 00:22:42.630 Bob Plott: i’m a big proponent for the book skin, because I think that’s important to maintain that rental code.

00:22:44.250 –> 00:22:47.490 Joseph McElroy: cool so they’re they’re pretty beautiful dog aren’t they.

00:22:47.970 –> 00:22:58.470 Bob Plott: they’re strikingly beautiful and, again, there are other dogs that have brindle coast, I think it’s that combination of the code they’re very athletic looking you know your traditional hound.

00:22:58.980 –> 00:23:16.770 Bob Plott: booking to think about a bloodhound with these groupie years, all the way at the ground, whereas a plot town has more of a pancake here a lot thicker chest more athletic looking dog, no, no, the loose skin hanging off of and generally just a lot more athletic looking dog.

00:23:17.970 –> 00:23:21.420 Joseph McElroy: And what would they what would they mostly hunting the mountains.

00:23:22.200 –> 00:23:32.010 Bob Plott: Well, you know bear primarily but also later when you know hawks and wild boar one introduced here really until later, but.

00:23:32.760 –> 00:23:44.070 Bob Plott: You know, hunting was survival as day, so you hear people today well I don’t want my dog to do anything that run bear or run Kuhn, or whatever, but back in those days they were looking for food so.

00:23:44.910 –> 00:24:01.620 Bob Plott: Written accounts multitudes of written accounts and i’ve covered in my books of guys talking about you know we went hunting and we went bear hunting, but we saw three turkeys with q3 turkeys we kill for deer WikiLeaks you know this and that and because they need food and.

00:24:01.920 –> 00:24:09.630 Bob Plott: It was interesting you said earlier about the dog food you’re talking about your grandfather because back in those days dog food was hard to find you either.

00:24:09.990 –> 00:24:18.750 Bob Plott: They had dogs table scraps or you may what they called dog breeds, which was a coarse grained cornbread that they just made big cakes and bricks and.

00:24:19.740 –> 00:24:23.460 Joseph McElroy: Right yeah yeah little corn was very prevalent in the mountains so.

00:24:23.700 –> 00:24:24.600 Joseph McElroy: far as.

00:24:24.660 –> 00:24:30.600 Joseph McElroy: Well, as the way to be I remember that my grandfather made that one bread, I remember that yeah yeah.

00:24:31.620 –> 00:24:34.290 Joseph McElroy: I tried tasting at one time, one that typically good.

00:24:35.790 –> 00:24:38.490 Bob Plott: it’s not your typical cornbread you know it sounds.

00:24:38.490 –> 00:24:49.170 Bob Plott: Great but and then you know volume what will tell the story of going hunting and can happen in the dark red he called it being frozen and having to break it up with his boots to feed the dogs.

00:24:49.530 –> 00:24:51.030 Oh yeah.

00:24:52.050 –> 00:24:55.950 Joseph McElroy: Those are those don’t you love those old frozen frozen hunting stories.

00:24:56.190 –> 00:24:59.640 Bob Plott: Oh man Okay, I could listen to them all day long.

00:25:00.120 –> 00:25:00.270 and

00:25:01.710 –> 00:25:04.500 Joseph McElroy: Talking about oh by the gun frozen my hand and.

00:25:07.680 –> 00:25:14.040 Joseph McElroy: frozen frozen hunting stories are a big big staple of tales around the porch when I was growing up.

00:25:14.310 –> 00:25:14.880 Bob Plott: Yes, sir.

00:25:16.740 –> 00:25:29.730 Joseph McElroy: So, so they were in the mountains, I came here and there’s black bears, of course, so they help they help deal with that they also did to help deal with the wolves and coyotes and Fox and things like that.

00:25:29.970 –> 00:25:39.570 Bob Plott: yeah and there’s again, you know statue amount of historical data of the dogs being protective of households, not just in in.

00:25:40.170 –> 00:25:55.860 Bob Plott: In in being providing food, but back in those days fences were used keep livestock out of garden, so these dogs to hurt to so they would actually go out and heard last in and then it was also during back in the Indian conflict.

00:25:56.550 –> 00:26:08.250 Bob Plott: In the civil war and just in general console or how laws and stuff around the talks and defended you know households and homesteads repeatedly to scores of stories and that type.

00:26:09.090 –> 00:26:24.030 Joseph McElroy: I remember yeah some people I can even remember So when I was going with sometimes people would that have to take their kids out to work in the field right, and they have a dog sit around with the kid even a little baby all right.

00:26:24.720 –> 00:26:34.140 Bob Plott: Mr crockett with tell a story or often of him and his brother being out in the yard, when you just still in diapers and his parents going to.

00:26:35.460 –> 00:26:43.950 Bob Plott: In the field and work, it was another family nearby there were full i’d gotten loose and was one right straight toward the kid to.

00:26:45.090 –> 00:26:53.850 Bob Plott: kill one over the very least, in the in the plot on the intervened and feared the bull away from the child.

00:26:54.600 –> 00:26:59.970 Joseph McElroy: was doing I was growing up, I had, I had a dog I didn’t have a house, I had a dog and.

00:27:01.110 –> 00:27:02.640 Joseph McElroy: Help sorts of dogs are important.

00:27:02.880 –> 00:27:13.740 Joseph McElroy: I really have we lived up in fox run pretty high up there right it’s not too far from the appalachian trail really and we had a lot of black bears come through there and one got up my dad and building deck outside of my.

00:27:14.340 –> 00:27:27.150 Joseph McElroy: Out of my my room and I woke up one day, and there was a BlackBerry up on there, and the windows open I was like oh no but the dog lunch from my bedroom he slept with me and scared of the dog the bear off.

00:27:31.410 –> 00:27:49.080 Bob Plott: The plot the plot live here in in waynesville mag you Alan he told a great story of that I am healed a man a guy come back and said he was he had been disabled during the war and everybody expect you know kind of back that he was he wasn’t.

00:27:50.220 –> 00:28:07.590 Bob Plott: Totally truthful about it and but they call it a name anyway, the bear Dr Jason the bear and the bear ran into the man’s housewives going to Steve and the guy jumped out the window and ran down the street or road hollering and screaming and they were laughing to the plot.

00:28:08.790 –> 00:28:10.590 Bob Plott: Driven at the may have maybe walk again.

00:28:13.980 –> 00:28:22.290 Joseph McElroy: You go that’s a good story so so you you’ve mentioned that the breed is unique what what makes their story so.

00:28:23.910 –> 00:28:29.280 Bob Plott: Well, again I think it’s the he not many people have a dog named after the family of.

00:28:29.280 –> 00:28:30.060 Joseph McElroy: course yeah.

00:28:30.270 –> 00:28:39.120 Bob Plott: And so that’s kind of unique and then of course black that is such a part of every chapter in history, I mean you can go back and look at some of these cattle drives.

00:28:39.510 –> 00:28:49.050 Bob Plott: out in Texas, where people had moved out there from here in East Tennessee and had taken dogs with them, they look, just like plans I can’t prove that they were but.

00:28:49.320 –> 00:28:53.100 Bob Plott: there’s actual photographs of them, and if they’re not plot hands, they should look like them.

00:28:53.610 –> 00:29:05.400 Bob Plott: And it fits you know, and I know for a fact that, for example, you know relatives and friends took dogs out to Washington state in the you know late 1800s early 1900s two.

00:29:06.390 –> 00:29:10.500 Bob Plott: Jobs as bloggers out there, oh I think it’s just that part of that.

00:29:11.220 –> 00:29:25.320 Bob Plott: You know, constant expansion of migration of people heading West and looking for a better life and the dogs always been with them Stanley hicks told me a story one time, where I cruises a very nice area outside of North Carolina.

00:29:26.700 –> 00:29:33.300 Bob Plott: or Greg man father, so that whole valley for all going awry phone and sheepskin and thought he got the best the end of the deal.

00:29:35.190 –> 00:29:48.210 Joseph McElroy: yeah that’s that’s the those horse trading days are some people make deals they both are great and where we weren’t the don’t in our tire times now, like those those those acres or $100,000 eat.

00:29:48.660 –> 00:29:48.810 Oh.

00:29:50.940 –> 00:30:01.590 Joseph McElroy: Well we’re gonna take a break down, you know we’re gonna come back we’re talking more about the full circle this breeds come, you know and how their special you.

00:32:54.570 –> 00:33:05.610 Joseph McElroy: How y’all doing it’s just a Franklin mcilroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcast with my guest bar plot the plot hound family fame.

00:33:06.180 –> 00:33:21.420 Joseph McElroy: Oh, Bob how are you doing so I right, so you know, I was reading I was reading a little bit about that and I thought was interesting that the plot hound was the only only coon hunting dog it wasn’t descended from fox house.

00:33:21.840 –> 00:33:22.440 Joseph McElroy: Is that true.

00:33:23.100 –> 00:33:29.640 Bob Plott: It is and that goes back to what I mentioned earlier about the the most of your foxhounds came from England or sheils.

00:33:30.360 –> 00:33:40.920 Bob Plott: The plot hand has a dramatic roots which totally fits and partners another whole great story about caleb to had dogs back then, and the Celts like the closed mouth dog was quiet.

00:33:41.400 –> 00:33:52.050 Bob Plott: And the English hey that because they wanted thought towns that they’d made a lot of noise but yeah the plot how has that romantic groups that makes it different yeah cool.

00:33:52.350 –> 00:33:54.090 Joseph McElroy: And what kind of what kind of sound of them a.

00:33:55.140 –> 00:33:55.710 Bob Plott: lot hell.

00:33:55.860 –> 00:34:06.150 Bob Plott: yeah well there’s two types of barks primarily are known was a plot chop mouth and a big mouth and the chop is kind of a real staccato George is.

00:34:07.290 –> 00:34:15.330 Bob Plott: That when it gets close on the trail, then you had that ball mouth, which is more of alone whoo whoo whoo long how like that.

00:34:16.230 –> 00:34:18.810 Joseph McElroy: cool so it’s a sort of a low sound or.

00:34:19.380 –> 00:34:29.160 Bob Plott: can be and and and and it’s like I say it just intensifies as they get closer towards what they’re treating are trying to container bay.

00:34:30.630 –> 00:34:34.320 Joseph McElroy: So how is the breed come full circle over the past 250 years.

00:34:34.830 –> 00:34:47.160 Bob Plott: Well it’s good question, I think the Multi purpose capabilities, is what always hit the plot dog park even early home, in that they were hunters they were herders and protectors, and they were friends.

00:34:47.880 –> 00:34:56.580 Bob Plott: But and skills, all those things are true today is things changed over the generations, obviously, you know Maggie valley now is a.

00:34:57.180 –> 00:35:05.130 Bob Plott: premier resorted here is the beautiful tourist area, we have a plot that has two years festivals and music and all sorts of great things going on.

00:35:05.490 –> 00:35:09.810 Bob Plott: The back in those days, which is frontier though now as things have evolved.

00:35:10.470 –> 00:35:20.280 Bob Plott: dog has had to evolve with that you can you still have hunted going on, but now you the dogs are show dogs, which was recognized as a Casey champion Joe dog.

00:35:20.850 –> 00:35:28.230 Bob Plott: recognize it, but all the major kindle clubs been using search and rescue dogs with wildlife operations tag animals.

00:35:28.830 –> 00:35:42.360 Bob Plott: being used as cadaver dogs and then, of course, all the same things they’ve done over the year so multi purpose capabilities remain the same, even though some of those skills have changed and there’s needs have changed yields remain the same.

00:35:43.230 –> 00:35:52.110 Joseph McElroy: So then, make a really good they’re really highly intelligent dog that could probably be in a lot of any kind of scenario, or you need intelligence right.

00:35:52.740 –> 00:35:57.030 Bob Plott: yeah I tell the story all the time, you know it’s it’s.

00:35:58.200 –> 00:36:11.580 Bob Plott: Oh, what happens in particular, you get one is a pub you can acclimate them to pretty much anything i’ve got a friend of mine who raised his plot around on chicken farm and host his dog hurt Chickens will yeah yeah.

00:36:12.780 –> 00:36:20.400 Bob Plott: we’ll buy them now you do anything else now my dogs, on the other hand, if they saw a chicken, they would think it was suffering i’ve never been around.

00:36:20.700 –> 00:36:22.650 Joseph McElroy: The record I can I can get a pup for.

00:36:22.650 –> 00:36:24.630 Joseph McElroy: My hurt my two year old twins are.

00:36:26.040 –> 00:36:32.460 Bob Plott: You good you take some work with him, but yeah it just a matter of building a lot of people make the mistake, though sometimes of.

00:36:32.850 –> 00:36:40.110 Bob Plott: point in trying to get a dog is you know already got to have those tablets and didn’t want to turn them into a house dog or or.

00:36:40.710 –> 00:36:53.280 Bob Plott: Something else they make great pants i’ve got a friend of mine so retired special forces carnally and dog sleep with him every night and i’ve got a video on my website where the dog salute the flag before he raises a flag and more than me.

00:36:54.600 –> 00:36:55.140 Bob Plott: yeah.

00:36:56.100 –> 00:37:01.560 Joseph McElroy: Well that’s it that’s a good segue you know bouncer famous for colorful characters right.

00:37:01.620 –> 00:37:09.630 Joseph McElroy: Yes, Sir Oh, can you give me some stories about some colorful characters that helped make the breed famous and by southern culture.

00:37:10.140 –> 00:37:19.230 Bob Plott: yeah on plot the guy I talked to you about earlier used to laugh when I was a kid that long can cuss for an hour and never use the same curse words twice.

00:37:20.100 –> 00:37:29.100 Bob Plott: And, but he was just this really intense who really wanted to do nothing but on and run dogs and three great dogs and.

00:37:29.610 –> 00:37:37.470 Bob Plott: These wonderful dogs and there’s a great story about where he was in a hunting trip and went to sleep by the fire and.

00:37:38.160 –> 00:37:44.970 Bob Plott: His buddies thought would be hilarious if they put a fire around email have to exit for him to run away from him they figured if they stoke the fire.

00:37:45.330 –> 00:37:57.450 Bob Plott: You would get hot enough that he would jump up and run hysterically way, but he didn’t really underestimate him like keep stoking the fire, the fire got higher and higher like Johnny cash song or something.

00:37:58.830 –> 00:38:16.140 Bob Plott: And he goes in so nothing’s happening, he just sleeping snoring away and, finally, he didn’t concern and that he raises up from the waist doesn’t jump up and run books to his left and looks to his right it says it’s, just as I expected I gotta go to hell.

00:38:19.200 –> 00:38:20.850 Bob Plott: plays back down and goes back to sleep.

00:38:22.470 –> 00:38:27.660 Bob Plott: And he’s the next first guy out in the morning, you know, to get those guys up to it, you know just.

00:38:28.260 –> 00:38:33.720 Bob Plott: All these stories like This just goes, you know looking Parker who live everyone caning for.

00:38:34.350 –> 00:38:39.150 Bob Plott: He was a great hundred he didn’t like bear meet that much, but he would give better meet to these neighbors.

00:38:39.660 –> 00:38:47.880 Bob Plott: And by asking wow you must must know a great recipe for bear me he didn’t like me at all, but he gave it away.

00:38:48.600 –> 00:39:06.990 Bob Plott: And yeah what’s the recipe, so what you get a big cattle in boiling water in and you meet in the salt and pepper you put some rocks in the bottom it’s the key, but the rocks and the bottom and you get to a bull bull up for about two hours and you throw the meetup need the rocks.

00:39:09.960 –> 00:39:10.800 Joseph McElroy: Oh.

00:39:12.390 –> 00:39:12.840 Joseph McElroy: Because even.

00:39:12.870 –> 00:39:20.640 Bob Plott: Like the very day didn’t they didn’t but the the dogs there’s just another great stories, and this is trying to make this as brief as possible but.

00:39:21.120 –> 00:39:35.580 Bob Plott: A plot and live here Maggie valley Herbert was his full name but in goa Ferguson, were great friends and they had hunted together and they were over goal is House you know recuperating from a hunt talking about their dogs and.

00:39:36.660 –> 00:39:48.030 Bob Plott: Scott came up and insulted her dogs and he said I bet you $5 that I can you can set me up in a bear hide that can go out there and pop those dogs and head and they will do thing.

00:39:48.780 –> 00:39:58.470 Bob Plott: Well, this was in the 1940s, probably $5 is a lot of money, and I said sure and, of course, you know the insult their dogs that was used to do so, I took the BAT.

00:39:59.190 –> 00:40:08.190 Bob Plott: So Charlie Chris was a guy’s name and sodium up in a bear hide and he got down on all fours and he snorted and puffed and puffed like a barrel do at times.

00:40:08.760 –> 00:40:19.020 Bob Plott: folks didn’t even lift their heads they’re up there under apple trees news and and he gets closer and he gets braver and he gets closer and he is braver he reaches up and it’s one of the dogs in the head.

00:40:19.650 –> 00:40:28.110 Bob Plott: Well then, go and upset that the dogs just jumped on this one and into that bear hi there wasn’t a dog latched on to.

00:40:28.980 –> 00:40:34.590 Bob Plott: And they thought that was just the most hilarious thing i’ve ever seen, because I knew he really could get hurt the bear hide was thick.

00:40:34.980 –> 00:40:40.710 Bob Plott: But all of a sudden, they heard it’s just piercing screams of agony, I thought what’s wrong, how can you be hurt.

00:40:41.370 –> 00:40:51.630 Bob Plott: turns out that one of these pups who had never even been honey before, but which is there with the other dogs had gotten up under the bear hide and it latched on to charlie’s crotch.

00:40:52.710 –> 00:40:57.180 Joseph McElroy: Just about castrated oh yeah there’s no.

00:40:57.330 –> 00:41:08.580 Bob Plott: And so they got the dogs off haven’t got the put the puppy that became a one goal ferguson’s best all time dogs, the goal in hopes that that was the most expensive bantered ever made because.

00:41:09.870 –> 00:41:14.730 Bob Plott: Charlie paid the band, but he had to stay there, and be nursed back to health goals house for about two weeks.

00:41:14.940 –> 00:41:15.630 wow.

00:41:18.570 –> 00:41:26.340 Joseph McElroy: Well, I kind of rough that kind of rough the behavior is emblematic of the mountain characters right.

00:41:26.730 –> 00:41:33.960 Bob Plott: It really was it truly was and but there were such good people I mean hub, and God, I mean I remember, I was a boy going to see have a lot and.

00:41:34.440 –> 00:41:45.840 Bob Plott: It was just such such kind people and so talented be up here and Maggie Valley, he built a waterwheel that generate electricity for his house and one of the first houses electricity.

00:41:46.290 –> 00:41:58.440 Bob Plott: And I can remember visiting with him and the lights would get brighter with the water pressure increased and with them a little bit when the water pressure decreased, and they were just immensely talented people.

00:41:59.310 –> 00:42:11.160 Joseph McElroy: So you know we’re talking about you know this, you know Scott divers European settlers new traditions applaud elms was there any traditions with housing the cherokee or there was even West Africans that lives in the mountains.

00:42:12.870 –> 00:42:14.940 Bob Plott: yeah um that’s a.

00:42:16.410 –> 00:42:24.630 Bob Plott: Good words grew up i’m on plot creek and was adopted son of john plot, and he he’s still alive and he’s he’s almost 100 years old man.

00:42:25.050 –> 00:42:34.080 Bob Plott: And he told me stories of going over on so code by up above here who we are today okay gap and meeting a bunch of the cherokees over the air and and obviously some milk was.

00:42:35.400 –> 00:42:46.230 Bob Plott: Chief at that time it was a marine war hero in professional wrestling and he had hair dogs and plot dogs and the plot family and he would hunt together and they.

00:42:46.980 –> 00:42:53.040 Bob Plott: Act city could remember the barium potatoes and in the in the fire and cook potatoes and eat them and camping together and.

00:42:53.340 –> 00:43:03.150 Bob Plott: And hung together for days at a time and they were pretty renowned for great dogs, but some of the cherokee didn’t believe in bear hunting, because a or there’s a.

00:43:03.870 –> 00:43:12.660 Bob Plott: owner was worn for bear in the head sacred qualities to him, they didn’t believe you should kill obey or unless you just had to come up with me.

00:43:12.930 –> 00:43:22.110 Joseph McElroy: yeah that makes sense, well, when we come back we’ll talk about how people can learn more about it here now, and things are going on in the mountains, that they can be.

00:45:43.410 –> 00:45:51.930 Joseph McElroy: howdy Oh, this is Joseph Franklin mcilroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcast and my guest Bob Bob.

00:45:53.010 –> 00:45:59.940 Joseph McElroy: So Bob where are some great places to learn more about the block plot hounds and experience their history.

00:46:01.500 –> 00:46:12.660 Bob Plott: Well i’ve written five books about southern culture and apply hand plan tales colorful characters include all these history and all these interesting stories I think i’m.

00:46:13.290 –> 00:46:27.150 Bob Plott: right here and Maggie Valley, where I am today at your hotel there’s literally the plot boston’s are right around this water rock not famous plot balsam we have a State historical marker there’s a whole story, I can take a whole hour and tell you about that.

00:46:27.210 –> 00:46:37.020 Joseph McElroy: So that’s that’s part of the boasts a mountain range you’ve got like three peaks named after the plot, you know and then there’s like a marker up in the mountains and whole story up there right.

00:46:37.200 –> 00:46:45.450 Bob Plott: Yes, our there’s there’s a marker on the parkway overlooking the plot blossoms was a State historical marker and hazelwood elementary school.

00:46:45.750 –> 00:46:51.450 Bob Plott: There was erected in 2009 it’s only the second market for a dog and a 75 year history of those.

00:46:51.900 –> 00:46:59.970 Bob Plott: And then there’s a statue for the playground in downtown hazelwood it was just put up a few years ago and then there’s just all sorts of stuff.

00:47:00.750 –> 00:47:13.860 Bob Plott: built home places and houses and different things, you can see we’re hoping to do tours here at your place and seminars here and the future and i’ve been i’ve been doing programs for years about this in.

00:47:14.430 –> 00:47:20.670 Joseph McElroy: You know all over is there a farm or a kennel it has a plot hounds in the mountains anywhere.

00:47:21.090 –> 00:47:22.140 Joseph McElroy: Oh famous for him.

00:47:22.800 –> 00:47:39.390 Bob Plott: yeah I mean there’s just one thing I think is so interesting and one thing I love to promote is you know if the plot, have had to been just left to the plot family, it would have been probably relegated to sort of a regional phenomenon, as opposed to.

00:47:41.280 –> 00:47:55.650 Bob Plott: National worldwide notoriety and Joe enjoys the day and that’s because so many people being here from other places and bought dogs are head dog ship tool and then the people here in the Community who were friends family relatives.

00:47:56.880 –> 00:48:09.420 Bob Plott: Eight continue that legacy as well, I mean I did a program of school program for kids and this went down a list of names about hundred names from A to Z and asked the kids if you relay it to anyone by this name.

00:48:09.990 –> 00:48:14.160 Bob Plott: Or, if this is your last name, which is stand up and by the time we were done.

00:48:14.550 –> 00:48:25.800 Bob Plott: Everybody in the room will stand up and they said why don’t we do this that’s it, because this is your story, too, because all of your family had something to do with perpetuating the legacy of these dogs so.

00:48:26.250 –> 00:48:34.680 Bob Plott: answer your question yeah there’s there’s stoking up here Maggie valley there’s the mahaffey gay has over in.

00:48:36.420 –> 00:48:50.970 Bob Plott: Jackson county you’ve got my styles over and Graham county or clark’s right across the mountain here in East Tennessee our Jones is over and swaying county I mean, I still raise the dogs today myself list just goes on and on.

00:48:51.750 –> 00:48:55.680 Joseph McElroy: But it’s kind of Nice to come and get the authentic experience of buying or the.

00:48:57.090 –> 00:49:04.860 Joseph McElroy: binary interacting with them and by maybe bind yourself one in the in the in the mountains are they became famous right.

00:49:06.360 –> 00:49:17.460 Bob Plott: It really is, and I think too it’s pretty neat we take a lot of pride in the fact that you know the dogs, we have can be really traced back to the dogs first registered in 1946 and before that too.

00:49:17.970 –> 00:49:28.590 Bob Plott: But uh yeah it’s just i’m just so proud that that yeah i’m trying to make clear that you know we take no credit for we just want to promote that legacy and promote the history and.

00:49:28.950 –> 00:49:35.280 Bob Plott: And you know get people to look read these books and go to the programs and and understand what a great story, it is.

00:49:35.970 –> 00:49:38.850 Joseph McElroy: So you got a new book coming out march tell us a little bit about that.

00:49:40.170 –> 00:49:47.790 Bob Plott: yeah march 15 my son Jacob and i’ve put together a book as soon as his train expert and he.

00:49:48.960 –> 00:49:52.290 Bob Plott: didn’t know that much about it, and he convinced me to get involved with this.

00:49:53.220 –> 00:50:02.280 Bob Plott: smoky mountain railways project, which was about the building of the western North Carolina railroad which is really fascinating because it was done almost entirely.

00:50:02.700 –> 00:50:14.790 Bob Plott: With convict Labor it was a terrible I were treated terribly and it took took longer to build the railroad for vote for North Carolina Murphy North Carolina they did to build this whole transcontinental railroad.

00:50:15.480 –> 00:50:24.390 Bob Plott: And if you look at the population of people in our percentage of people that died more people died building this railroad and they did the transcontinental railroad.

00:50:24.900 –> 00:50:40.980 Bob Plott: wow but it had a tremendous impact on the region asheville, for example, that time was just literally a countdown I mean there was nothing there, and you see it today that in western North Carolina was just kind of cut off because it was no really way to take.

00:50:42.060 –> 00:50:50.070 Bob Plott: products to market or get things anywhere get things in here, so the railroad just literally was life changing and, of course.

00:50:50.340 –> 00:50:59.010 Bob Plott: that’s another reason to come to their you now you got the great smoky mountains row row way over in bryson city that’s a big tour straw and then.

00:50:59.760 –> 00:51:17.940 Bob Plott: I do work for children farms and in in Libya North Carolina that is not a great story to in terms of their tie in the area and when all this continuously operating farms in western North Carolina so it’s just so nice Everywhere you turn there’s a great story here cool.

00:51:18.390 –> 00:51:23.340 Joseph McElroy: So you mentioned some of the things we’re thinking about doing you got any specific plans for the future.

00:51:26.310 –> 00:51:39.330 Bob Plott: me yeah I mean i’m hoping to do programs with you guys i’ve done programs, we did plot fast here Maggie Valley, for four years, raised 120 $5,000 for Jackson county and haywood county hit start programs.

00:51:40.350 –> 00:51:57.030 Bob Plott: wanted to do a lot more stuff like that festivals that sort of thing and just really educate people you know, in the fall into two opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to these sort of things are either very knowledgeable or they’re very clueless and they tend to.

00:51:58.260 –> 00:52:07.380 Bob Plott: Be almost hostile sometimes if they don’t understand it, I think the key thing is just communication and tell me stories and when people make their own decisions.

00:52:07.470 –> 00:52:09.690 Joseph McElroy: Right, so how can people contact you.

00:52:10.650 –> 00:52:21.600 Bob Plott: I have a website Bob plot COM got all those usual social media pages Facebook that sort of thing have to book pages for Facebook and instagram and all that sort of thing.

00:52:22.080 –> 00:52:36.570 Bob Plott: i’m easily reach their e bike and email me there w w w dot bomb plot calm and of course I hope to be doing some work with you folks here in promoting some things here and throughout the area once we get things back to normal again.

00:52:37.320 –> 00:52:43.350 Joseph McElroy: Alright, well, thank you Baba for showing up and being on this program has been really fun, I really appreciate it.

00:52:45.150 –> 00:52:51.120 Joseph McElroy: And you know I think we’ll have some further conversations I think we’ll do a whole railroad show some I get you on that too.

00:52:53.400 –> 00:52:55.170 Joseph McElroy: So you know help promote the book.

00:52:56.370 –> 00:52:57.780 Joseph McElroy: Let me tell people out there.

00:52:58.830 –> 00:53:00.330 Joseph McElroy: You can buy bob’s book.

00:53:01.440 –> 00:53:15.090 Joseph McElroy: On Amazon, you can find the links to those books on gateways to the smokies that fun all right, and we have my the front page of borders books, you can click on each any one of them it’ll take you right to the Amazon page by the book.

00:53:16.470 –> 00:53:21.840 Joseph McElroy: That that site also has to all the previous episodes, it also has.

00:53:23.280 –> 00:53:31.770 Joseph McElroy: Some links to resources it has links to oral or social media as it is subscribe button, you can subscribe to our our newsletter that’s coming out.

00:53:32.100 –> 00:53:42.660 Joseph McElroy: So it’s the resource to go to to find out all about the show, I want to mention, of course, that I own the metal art motel and Maggie value with Caroline mouthy.

00:53:43.590 –> 00:53:52.080 Joseph McElroy: Traditional mountain road roadside motel that we’ve made sorted into sort of into an appalachian chic resort I mean it’s still got an authentic.

00:53:52.470 –> 00:54:02.610 Joseph McElroy: You know roadside motel feel, but we have programs, we have things go on there, your APP has been in my family for over 45 years and it’s around 70 years old and a lot of.

00:54:03.030 –> 00:54:13.470 Joseph McElroy: A lot of music going on there to my my goal trees and artists in residence and he’s there he’s a former journalist in the minds of these exploring the Scottish roots of mountain music.

00:54:14.940 –> 00:54:28.380 Joseph McElroy: I also own a site called smokies invention calm is dedicated to you know trail maps and specific information about the doing outdoor adventures and other kinds of things in the mountains and.

00:54:29.940 –> 00:54:45.060 Joseph McElroy: And and and resources that you can go to to help you planning a trip to the mountains and then I have built with were traveling magazines a great resource for where travel.com great dash dash maps.

00:54:45.510 –> 00:54:52.890 Joseph McElroy: which were traveler has been around for 30 years and you see it probably motel rooms around the world and we’re going to where it is a great.

00:54:53.790 –> 00:55:03.990 Joseph McElroy: resource for in depth stories about the great smokies but also about all the cities and towns around the smoky mountains it’s it’s a big cultural area.

00:55:04.350 –> 00:55:13.890 Joseph McElroy: You know they’re there, you can see the great smoky mountains is about the size of institutions and it has a lot of people live here we get about 20 million people visit every year, so.

00:55:14.370 –> 00:55:21.780 Joseph McElroy: Where travelers and take notes or global reach, and very interesting stories and encompasses not only the smokies but the areas around.

00:55:23.250 –> 00:55:28.290 Joseph McElroy: I really appreciate everybody here coming in a week coming to listen to us every week we’re going to have.

00:55:28.620 –> 00:55:40.710 Joseph McElroy: A rafting expert out here next week, talking about whitewater in the mountains and we’re going to be soon having hiking we have all sorts of interesting things so again, this is, this is the gateway to the smokies dot fun.

00:55:41.190 –> 00:55:53.190 Joseph McElroy: You can reach me at explore at smokies adventure calm and smokies plural adventure singular.com and it good to see you and we’ll see you next week and bye.

Joseph Franklyn McElroy discusses the 5 Entrances to the Great Smoky Mountains National Park on the North Carolina side of the park.

We will explore not only the wonderful natural features but the small mountain towns near the entrances.

Tune in for this fun conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.

Joseph introduces the segments of today’s episode, which will discuss the entrances to the smokies. Joseph found out today that his wife and son got through covid without telling anybody, going into detail about the origin of his son’s stoicism. He recites a poem he found that talks about the laid-back and free way of living the Smokies bring about. In the last year, the mountains have seen a 16% increase in tourism because people go there to be at ease and feel safe. Joseph talks about the awe these mountains inspire, the twists and turns within, and how this beauty extends into the winter. Every visit is a new adventure, even on the same trails, leaving you feeling refreshed when you go home. When Franklin Roosevelt dedicated this park, he discussed its natural beauty and how it must be preserved. Joseph relates to this as these mountains are home for him, he enjoys the city life and has lived in a variety of places, but always finds himself back in the Smokies.

An important cultural aspect, the entrances to the smokies can be a fun topic to navigate, with crowds looking for secret ones and fun ones. Growing up, Joseph didn’t know where the entrances were, he would go on a trail or a drive and end up in the mountains. The concept of the entrances was new to Joseph, requiring some research even though he grew up a native. Newfound Gap Road, a section of US 441, got its name because it was just that, newfound. Indian gap was thought to be the lowest gap until this was found. The Indian culture of Cherokee still remains, along with its beautiful waterfalls and attractions. The masks of the indigenous people are still sold, not as a product of cultural appropriation, but rather as a means of supporting families. Another tradition in Cherokee culture is storytelling bonfires, which are enjoyed by families and individuals. In addition to the old traditions, casinos have been built, bringing a different crowd and a different type of attention. Joseph reads a quote discussing the approach the Cherokee take to their culture. The next entrance is the Blue Ridge Parkway entrance. On the Blue Ridge Parkway is a visitor center, one of four in the park. The visitor center runs a variety of programs, some led by rangers. There is also a farm museum, which gives an accurate display of farm life in the mountains. On that parkway is a gristle mill, great campgrounds, picnic areas, and trails. The parkway leads to the Sugarlands Valley Nature trail, which is the largest entrance to the park. The Newfound Gap Road runs between the two largest entrances to the park.

Joseph’s favorite entrance is one of the most remote, in the Cataloochee Valley near where he grew up. As a kid, he would go hiking there with his family. In the valley, there are a lot of old community buildings that have been preserved. There is a greater diversity of birds in the Smoky mountains than anywhere else. There is also great fishing in the mountains. In 2001, the national park service reintroduced Elk to the park in the valley. The Elk have thrived in the park since being reintroduced to their natural habitat. Often the roads getting into the park through the valley get closed as there are many twists and turns. The Elk have different seasons throughout the year, such as the calving season. By June the calves are out, and in mid-summer, they can be seen out grazing. The fall is the mating season, the Elk can be heard and seen fighting for mates. They can be hard to find in the winter though. The Cataloochee is home to many great trails that take you to a variety of destinations within the park. Cataloochee is located within Jonathan Creek Valley, where Joseph grew up. Joseph’s parents bought the Meadowlark hotel about 45 years ago, moving the family to Maggie Valley. This valley has grown into a small tourist town, remaining to this day home to the authentic mountain culture. The valley is home to world-renowned museums, ski resorts, distilleries, and many more attractions.

Not far from Maggie valley is another entrance to the Smokies in a little town called Bryson City, which is known for its white water rafting. There is a train museum there along with the Smoky railroad, which takes tourists around the towns in the Smoky Mountains. One of the entrances near Bryson City is Deep Creek, which is just three miles from the city. There are amazing trails to hike with beautiful waterfalls. After a few days of rain, many creeks throughout the Smokies are home to great tubing. Lakeview Drive, otherwise known as The Road to Nowhere is another entrance, that has a tunnel that runs for miles and leads to a trail. The trail contains old buildings, and a lake, and is an outlet to many of the major trails. The final entrance is near Fontana Lake. Besides Cataloochee valley, this is the most remote entrance as you need to take a boat across a lake to get there. Joseph’s family owns the Meadowlark Hotel in Maggie Valley. It is a great location for weddings, hosts barbecues, and has great live music. Next week, Bob Plott will guest on the show.

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00:00:39.420 –> 00:00:40.020 Joseph McElroy: howdy.

00:00:40.800 –> 00:00:44.910 Joseph McElroy: Thanks for joining us on this week’s episode of gateway to the smokies.

00:00:46.170 –> 00:00:54.450 Joseph McElroy: This podcast is about america’s most visited National Park, the great smoky mountains national park and the surrounding towns.

00:00:55.230 –> 00:01:09.840 Joseph McElroy: Areas this area is filled with ancient natural beauty a deep storied history and rich mountain cultures that we will explore weekly with the episodes and experts and all sorts of good stuff.

00:01:11.070 –> 00:01:25.380 Joseph McElroy: I am Joseph Franklin mcilroy amanda the world, but also with deep roots in those mountains my family is living the great smokies for over 200 years my businesses in travel, but my heart is in culture.

00:01:26.940 –> 00:01:28.320 Joseph McElroy: So, today, is just me.

00:01:29.490 –> 00:01:39.180 Joseph McElroy: i’m eventually going to talk to you about the entrances to the great smoky mountains natural park and why they’re interesting and some of the things to do in the towns and areas around those entrances.

00:01:41.160 –> 00:01:52.050 Joseph McElroy: But right now I just wonder how y’all doing I just found out today, and my son and my my his wife had covidien got over before they told anybody.

00:01:53.400 –> 00:01:56.940 Joseph McElroy: I was shocked Oh, the bravery of you.

00:01:58.920 –> 00:02:04.500 Joseph McElroy: But I think it expresses a certain stoicism that he probably got through me.

00:02:05.640 –> 00:02:06.870 Joseph McElroy: From mountain culture.

00:02:07.980 –> 00:02:11.850 Joseph McElroy: Oh he’s more likely you got it from his grandfather because he used to spend.

00:02:12.960 –> 00:02:20.220 Joseph McElroy: Summers there for two or three weeks at a time, and my dad was a my dad is still very.

00:02:21.360 –> 00:02:27.720 Joseph McElroy: suck it up and go get high guy and that sort of emblematic of a lot of the people in the mountains.

00:02:29.970 –> 00:02:38.040 Joseph McElroy: yeah went listened to my first few podcasts and realized that I was talking to loud and fast and I didn’t like it.

00:02:40.080 –> 00:02:42.540 Joseph McElroy: It doesn’t express the smoky mountains.

00:02:43.980 –> 00:02:46.440 Joseph McElroy: I guess, I was eager to express my.

00:02:47.610 –> 00:03:06.900 Joseph McElroy: My passion for my heritage and for the the sell you on coming to the area but that’s not really what the smoky mountains is about there’s a certain ease of living, even when it’s hard, that is, I think characteristic of the culture.

00:03:08.460 –> 00:03:18.750 Joseph McElroy: It just don’t talk fail fast and you don’t sell everybody and I guess I might have to relearn that doing that podcast because i’ve been in New York for quite a while.

00:03:19.740 –> 00:03:27.240 Joseph McElroy: I still go down there i’m not every month, but you know, things were off on here so i’ll do my best and you’ll hold me to account when I don’t okay.

00:03:28.830 –> 00:03:40.080 Joseph McElroy: So i’m talking about Kobe and the mountains and things like that I got the I was searching for some information and I found a poem about coming to the mountains for a visit.

00:03:41.040 –> 00:03:49.170 Joseph McElroy: You know it felt apropos in these times it’s by a poet named Linda higher net and it was written in 2014 and i’m just going to say it.

00:03:51.330 –> 00:04:07.380 Joseph McElroy: I think it’s pretty it was memorable to me so i’ll just i’ll just read it, I traveled to the mountains through long and winding road my destination aimless tune into the chill out mode.

00:04:08.730 –> 00:04:13.860 Joseph McElroy: I marvel at the mountains and breathe the clue cool clean air.

00:04:14.880 –> 00:04:20.760 Joseph McElroy: so strange to think that yesterday was dawned in deep despair.

00:04:21.840 –> 00:04:27.000 Joseph McElroy: I leave it all behind me today, I am simply free.

00:04:28.050 –> 00:04:32.400 Joseph McElroy: i’m running with the wind now for now i’m being me.

00:04:33.840 –> 00:04:44.880 Joseph McElroy: I found a new horizon, where I may rest my eyes as sit awhile and wonder, as the mountains pierce the skies.

00:04:46.380 –> 00:04:50.520 Joseph McElroy: As I turned the corner, I see what lies ahead.

00:04:51.600 –> 00:05:01.020 Joseph McElroy: Another stunning vista is where i’m being led, I know I know the road i’ve traveled.

00:05:02.100 –> 00:05:03.660 Joseph McElroy: i’ve been where I have been.

00:05:04.830 –> 00:05:09.630 Joseph McElroy: so full of twists and turnings an ever changing scene.

00:05:10.680 –> 00:05:24.570 Joseph McElroy: I take a last look at the mountains and prepare to make my descent i’m heading home for home and i’m happy just knowing my journey was meant.

00:05:26.310 –> 00:05:46.620 Joseph McElroy: And that was in May 23 2014 now the first line that jumped out at me was this in this time of despair deeps to pair the deep despair, you know we’ve been going through hard times for last year and or so maybe people longer maybe some people last but.

00:05:48.450 –> 00:05:59.700 Joseph McElroy: You know, you can be refreshed in the mountains, I think that you know this poem really spoke to me about that, especially after reading just after i’ve had that my son had it.

00:06:02.100 –> 00:06:13.770 Joseph McElroy: And I think that’s always been a allure of the the the mountains, and especially the smoky mountains, is that you go there to relax to.

00:06:14.880 –> 00:06:17.970 Joseph McElroy: Have a certain ease of living to.

00:06:19.230 –> 00:06:19.620 Joseph McElroy: To.

00:06:21.390 –> 00:06:34.470 Joseph McElroy: just sit back and enjoy life and see breathe the clean cool air, you know that they’ve actually had a 16% growth in tourism, this last year in the mountains well now that yeah.

00:06:34.950 –> 00:06:46.620 Joseph McElroy: that’s because people were escaping you know local travel is become as big and people within 100 miles or so just just want to get away and they know they can go there and be pretty safe.

00:06:49.500 –> 00:06:59.160 Joseph McElroy: You know, I was, I was reading it, and I was struck me by a poem, I quote, I mean from Mark Twain.

00:07:01.020 –> 00:07:08.760 Joseph McElroy: That was 20 years from now, have you will be more disappointed by the things you didn’t do than the by the ones that you did do.

00:07:09.180 –> 00:07:18.690 Joseph McElroy: So throw off the bow line say away for sale away from the safe harbor catch the trade winds in your sails explore dream discover.

00:07:19.590 –> 00:07:27.810 Joseph McElroy: And I think that even in the times, where we’re in quarantine or having to be away from other people going outdoors and going to places.

00:07:28.260 –> 00:07:48.300 Joseph McElroy: Where there’s still natural beauty and wildness a safe sort of wildness to go, you know catch the winds in your sails climb a mountain explore dream discover leave it all behind me today i’m simply free i’m running with the wind now for me for now i’m being me.

00:07:49.770 –> 00:07:52.860 Joseph McElroy: I just I just think that’s incredibly lovely.

00:07:54.240 –> 00:07:57.750 Joseph McElroy: You know, and you get to find new horizons and and.

00:07:58.890 –> 00:08:05.250 Joseph McElroy: And rest your eyes on wonder, you see vistas every time you’d make a curve in the.

00:08:06.000 –> 00:08:17.190 Joseph McElroy: Mountain roads, it opens up to a new vista that’s just awestruck it’s just it’s just you’re just you’re just your breath is taken away, especially, believe it or not, in the winter.

00:08:17.700 –> 00:08:25.950 Joseph McElroy: Because you’re driving these roads and the leaves have to have trimmed away they’re still the greenery because you have evergreens, but you have.

00:08:26.250 –> 00:08:43.140 Joseph McElroy: You know the leaves have revealed the beauty of the view that they protected from all year long only the people brave enough to go and explore and discover during a cold time can see and they’re stunning, I mean i’m just telling you the abuser stunning.

00:08:45.780 –> 00:08:59.070 Joseph McElroy: And so, and you know, and I think every time you go and you discover a new adventure, I mean you’re traveling a road that you’ve been before it’s i’ve been where i’ve been it’s been where i’ve been.

00:08:59.610 –> 00:09:06.030 Joseph McElroy: But it’s an ever changing scene, you know you’re always seeing something new, everything is different.

00:09:07.710 –> 00:09:15.930 Joseph McElroy: And then, when you go home when you go home when you leave the mountains you actually feel refreshed and you feel happy.

00:09:16.740 –> 00:09:27.930 Joseph McElroy: All right, you’ve you’ve done something you’ve gone you’ve you’ve experienced different culture you’ve seen different things you’ve been out out of doors you’ve clean click clear water you’ve had some of the cleanest.

00:09:28.350 –> 00:09:37.350 Joseph McElroy: You know quarters in in the in the United States, maybe the world you’ve had you know some air that’s unperturbed by you know pollution.

00:09:37.920 –> 00:09:54.690 Joseph McElroy: And it’s just I think a wonderful escape, especially in these times and it reminds me that you know, President Roosevelt Franklin D Roosevelt when he you know sort of was in, and you know was dedicating these.

00:09:56.310 –> 00:10:04.320 Joseph McElroy: These this Park, he said, there are trees here that stood before our forefathers ever came to this continent.

00:10:04.920 –> 00:10:11.730 Joseph McElroy: They are brooks that still run as clear as on the day that first pioneer cut his hand and drank from them.

00:10:12.630 –> 00:10:30.300 Joseph McElroy: In this Park, we should conserve these trees, the pie, the red, but the dogwood the azalea the rhododendron and the trout that and the thrush for the happiness of the American people and more than the American people I think it’s the happiness of people from all over the world.

00:10:33.690 –> 00:10:42.420 Joseph McElroy: So I am I sort of was a you know emotional day and this really is, I think.

00:10:43.800 –> 00:10:53.250 Joseph McElroy: sums up my feeling for the mountains and why come back so much and never really left home i’ve been all over the world, and I lived several different places and.

00:10:53.610 –> 00:11:05.790 Joseph McElroy: I love city life because you know I need a lot of stimulation, but then, when I get a little crazy, I have to go back home, I have to have that clean clear waters and the cool breeze.

00:11:06.180 –> 00:11:13.950 Joseph McElroy: and clean air and I have to have the adventures in the in the in the in the wilds I have to recharge by going there.

00:11:15.210 –> 00:11:19.320 Joseph McElroy: And you know, I think it works for just about anybody to do that.

00:11:21.720 –> 00:11:42.120 Joseph McElroy: And so I encourage you to consider it your home away from home the place you go and explore, because it was meant for you, when it was first consecrated it was meant for you to come and to have that recharging experience and especially in these times of coven and.

00:11:43.140 –> 00:11:44.040 Joseph McElroy: And you know.

00:11:45.090 –> 00:11:55.200 Joseph McElroy: You know, violence in the riotous and yeah policy politicisation it’s something where everybody can go without worrying about what the politics of your neighbors are you know, without.

00:11:55.980 –> 00:12:10.620 Joseph McElroy: yeah because you’re all looking at nature and you’re all escaped from that world for a brief time and you just be human beings together looking at things you know socially distance because you’re outside you can be away, but you can still be aware of other people.

00:12:11.880 –> 00:12:18.570 Joseph McElroy: And you know I even you first get there you come to all these towns that have tourism things that seem, some of them seem a little crass and them seem authentic.

00:12:19.140 –> 00:12:28.560 Joseph McElroy: But when you go up into the park and you grew up in the wilderness it’s still as authentic and beautiful and undisturbed as it’s ever been and you can explore.

00:12:29.490 –> 00:12:41.040 Joseph McElroy: The way I think that you don’t get to do a lot in your life alright, so when we come back we’re going to talk about ways to get into the smoky mountains and what’s going on around those entrances.

00:15:37.980 –> 00:15:44.130 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin McElroy back with the gateway to the smokies.

00:15:45.390 –> 00:15:46.320 Joseph McElroy: podcast.

00:15:47.700 –> 00:15:58.020 Joseph McElroy: i’m my guest today and i’m talking about the entrances to the smoky mountains now you know I don’t know why it’s a thing.

00:15:59.100 –> 00:16:07.080 Joseph McElroy: But if you’re if you’re if you’re looking around online you’ll see lots of talk about the entrances to the smoky mountains.

00:16:08.100 –> 00:16:19.410 Joseph McElroy: They have an employee of the year, since I grown up become an important cultural aspect of visiting and where you’re going to come into that My guess is because the crowds come and people want to know.

00:16:19.830 –> 00:16:25.080 Joseph McElroy: which ones are the most fun or which ones are the easiest to get one and where’s the secret ones, and all that sort of stuff.

00:16:26.880 –> 00:16:32.220 Joseph McElroy: So the ones on the Tennessee cider are fairly well known.

00:16:33.570 –> 00:16:39.840 Joseph McElroy: And i’ll talk about them another day but i’m gonna i’m gonna focus on the less well known ones on the North Carolina side.

00:16:42.060 –> 00:16:42.930 Joseph McElroy: Just to.

00:16:44.040 –> 00:16:46.890 Joseph McElroy: Just to you know give some.

00:16:47.940 –> 00:16:53.460 Joseph McElroy: give some balance to the whole conversation about the entrances so like I said I didn’t.

00:16:54.510 –> 00:17:06.120 Joseph McElroy: I didn’t know much about entrances growing up, I I just I would go I would ride on a trail somewhere and then we’d been the smoky mountains or we just go and get in the car and drive somewhere and we’d be in the smoky mountains.

00:17:07.620 –> 00:17:11.970 Joseph McElroy: There was no, this is, this is the you know certain entrance.

00:17:13.020 –> 00:17:23.670 Joseph McElroy: I live near the appalachian trail coast that goes through the smoky mountains and i’d walk on that icon, that being the smoky mountain, so I actually had to do a little research.

00:17:25.200 –> 00:17:41.250 Joseph McElroy: You know and and find out more about the the official names of them and what they are, and so it’s sort of fun for me to do some reading here and i’m gonna give you some of that information but anyway, the entrances concept is is news you to me, is it is to you.

00:17:42.990 –> 00:17:43.500 Joseph McElroy: So.

00:17:46.200 –> 00:17:52.740 Joseph McElroy: The first one i’m going to talk about his newfound gap road and oh kind of left the.

00:17:54.180 –> 00:17:59.430 Joseph McElroy: entrance to the great smoky mountains okay so.

00:18:00.630 –> 00:18:18.480 Joseph McElroy: Newfoundland there’s a group called new family out road and it’s the road almost everyone who visit the great smoky mountains National Park will drive on, it is a section of us for for one that crosses the park North, the South over the crest of the great smoky mountains.

00:18:19.590 –> 00:18:27.090 Joseph McElroy: And it links the towns of cherokee and get lumber, which is all the Tennessee side and cherokee has been on the North Carolina side.

00:18:29.610 –> 00:18:40.200 Joseph McElroy: You know what’s interesting is is that before they built the smoky mountain the great smoky mountain National Park there used to be a gap up there called Indian gap.

00:18:41.070 –> 00:18:48.540 Joseph McElroy: And everybody thought that that was the lowest gap to cross that CREST that there existed, but when they went to build the.

00:18:49.170 –> 00:19:03.150 Joseph McElroy: The the road you know and to go across it and help you know you know with the smoky mountain building it is that they found there was actually a gap that was 15 I guess 15 miles.

00:19:03.570 –> 00:19:11.850 Joseph McElroy: deeper and are some some amount of deeper I forget the exact details but, and so they started calling a new yeah newfound gap.

00:19:12.330 –> 00:19:24.360 Joseph McElroy: And then, then that became that became the name the feature, and it became the name of the road, so this newfound gap my name and the road, are all birth, with the great smoky mountain National Park.

00:19:26.430 –> 00:19:34.140 Joseph McElroy: Now I want to talk a little bit about chair key before we go into what the what the park is like you know Tara key.

00:19:35.580 –> 00:19:50.070 Joseph McElroy: Is a town in the Koala boundary Indian reservation which is not actually technically a reservation it’s a it’s actually a private land that’s that’s held in trust by the Federal Government.

00:19:50.580 –> 00:20:00.840 Joseph McElroy: And then that can be privately owned bought and sold by people, but that people had to be enrolled in the eastern tribe of the cherokee Indians.

00:20:03.000 –> 00:20:03.990 Joseph McElroy: So it’s.

00:20:05.070 –> 00:20:24.030 Joseph McElroy: it’s a special area I think in that regard now in cherokee it’s a great town to go visit right in you know you can see original culture there, you can see original Indian culture, you can see spectacular waterfalls.

00:20:25.530 –> 00:20:28.650 Joseph McElroy: there’s there are they have some great fly fishing tournaments there.

00:20:29.970 –> 00:20:37.080 Joseph McElroy: And, of course, you can see, they have a they have some great cherokee cultural attractions, and I think one of the most beautiful is the.

00:20:37.440 –> 00:20:46.290 Joseph McElroy: The cherokee museum, one of the first times I ever saw 3D technology used was when I went to that museum I don’t know 20 years ago.

00:20:46.680 –> 00:21:00.270 Joseph McElroy: And you have you go through it and they have a medicine man as a guide and all the different experiences, but he shows up as a hologram so he’s in a hologram and all these things, it was really cool is mind blowing at the time.

00:21:01.980 –> 00:21:11.700 Joseph McElroy: And, and I would recommend you go there and there’s all sorts of interesting shopping, you know I love there’s a there’s a couple stores, one of them has you know.

00:21:12.300 –> 00:21:21.030 Joseph McElroy: where you can go find original masks I love masks and they have all these that they have these these indigenous people that will.

00:21:21.420 –> 00:21:36.240 Joseph McElroy: Create mass in the mountains in the cherokee and you know and they represent all sorts of aspects of culture, but they’re huge they’re well crafted beautiful artifacts and you know they’re they’re they’re making them for.

00:21:37.320 –> 00:21:48.030 Joseph McElroy: For for selling to support themselves and you know and bring income into their family so it’s not cultural appropriation to go buy something because they’re doing it for that purpose.

00:21:49.020 –> 00:22:04.440 Joseph McElroy: And it’s actually helping them, so you can go there by some beautiful massive and then they use things you know interesting textures of grasses and things to make hair and other you know elements of the mass that are just surprising.

00:22:06.000 –> 00:22:18.120 Joseph McElroy: Also that’s big and cherokee is there’s there’s the storytelling bonfires that are like every Saturday and Friday night during the warm months and and into the into the cooler months but not really.

00:22:18.870 –> 00:22:28.740 Joseph McElroy: cold where they tell mountain stories cherokee stories, which are incredible you know fun events for both fam for for families and individuals.

00:22:30.150 –> 00:22:45.600 Joseph McElroy: You can you have they have amazing shopping there they’ve got casinos there, so now, so you know that’s really as made the town itself really more upscale so they got some incredible stores there but they still have some some charming stores to.

00:22:46.920 –> 00:22:56.640 Joseph McElroy: You know from the old days that are still around so you can capture both sort of a little bit more glitz and also get a lot of that mountain town charm there.

00:22:57.840 –> 00:23:13.440 Joseph McElroy: And you can and then there’s some really great shows and Al and cultural you know performances there and everybody should go see the outdoor drama onto these hills that tells the story of the tale of tree or tears.

00:23:14.100 –> 00:23:20.970 Joseph McElroy: which I i’m assuming most of you will know, and if not, you should go look it up online on that go into it right, the second but.

00:23:22.470 –> 00:23:29.970 Joseph McElroy: it’s basically is the the trail of moving many of the cherokee to Oklahoma that was forced upon them by the government.

00:23:30.690 –> 00:23:47.760 Joseph McElroy: a wonderful quote I read, while doing my research was we’re still here we’re still cherokee we speak our language dance our songs know our history, our culture, our hearts arts, we are cherokee.

00:23:48.600 –> 00:24:01.710 Joseph McElroy: I feel it’s a duty to our ancestors to bring these event to life and to allow the outside world to have perspective on the events that transpired and how they shaped us as a people.

00:24:02.400 –> 00:24:16.320 Joseph McElroy: And this is said by Mike crow, who is a cherokee native who is performed in the outdoor drama under these hills, for the last 12 seasons, they they it seems to me they approach.

00:24:17.340 –> 00:24:25.650 Joseph McElroy: Their community and their professions and their tourism with a depth feeling and thought that makes it pretty special to go there.

00:24:27.000 –> 00:24:42.330 Joseph McElroy: So anyway, the US 4441 leaves the the the quality boundary Indian reservation the town of cherokee and shortly enters into the ghosts smoky mountain grants the great smoky mountain park and there’s an entrance sign there.

00:24:47.040 –> 00:24:48.720 Joseph McElroy: The blue Ridge it’s.

00:24:50.940 –> 00:24:53.850 Joseph McElroy: it’s Actually, I think, called the blue Ridge parkway entrance.

00:24:55.170 –> 00:25:02.910 Joseph McElroy: And it’s about mile point I know there’s an entrance to the blue Ridge parkway I want you to get into the park, so you can actually travel.

00:25:03.990 –> 00:25:06.300 Joseph McElroy: All over the 469 miles to.

00:25:07.350 –> 00:25:20.760 Joseph McElroy: To the shadowed and national park by giving starting at the blue Ridge parkway right there in Africa cherokee well, the first thing you’re going to see is something called the account of left be visitor centers and it’s.

00:25:21.780 –> 00:25:25.110 Joseph McElroy: It is a is a very busy.

00:25:26.190 –> 00:25:35.460 Joseph McElroy: location there’s a there’s a trail that starts there there’s also a visitor Center it’s one of the four visitor centers in the park so it’s worth stopping there.

00:25:36.780 –> 00:25:42.810 Joseph McElroy: And it’s open almost every day, except for Christmas and it’s you know 200 out of nine to five.

00:25:44.040 –> 00:26:03.030 Joseph McElroy: And it’s it has lots of interesting programs there’s there’s some ranger lead programs about the the park there and they have they have a another museum exhibit there that tells life in the mountains from the native Americans, they also have a.

00:26:04.290 –> 00:26:17.460 Joseph McElroy: The they have a farm museum all right and it came out in farm country museum that has actually log structures of farmhouse a bar and smokehouse apple house corn cribs and others.

00:26:17.880 –> 00:26:27.240 Joseph McElroy: And it actually has demonstrations of mountain farm life that is conducted season so it’s very interesting, especially for kids to go and stop there.

00:26:28.410 –> 00:26:33.060 Joseph McElroy: And it says bookstore shops and things like that, so when you keep going on, through that.

00:26:33.600 –> 00:26:41.280 Joseph McElroy: That entrance to the to the great smoky mountains you’re going to run across mingus mill which is is a really old.

00:26:41.820 –> 00:26:55.680 Joseph McElroy: grist mill that’s still an operation, and it is usually open and the and the seasonal months, so you stop see of chris’s megan it’s an interesting experience for the kids there’s some great correct campgrounds along the way in the.

00:26:57.240 –> 00:26:58.110 Joseph McElroy: In the parkway and.

00:26:59.280 –> 00:27:01.650 Joseph McElroy: In the park in those entrance, especially the smoke mark.

00:27:03.480 –> 00:27:07.590 Joseph McElroy: And it’s one of the it’s one of the two that is open all around.

00:27:08.670 –> 00:27:22.500 Joseph McElroy: there’s some great there’s also along that route there’s a lot of great picnic areas and there’s trails that start from that route, especially there’s a they kept part prong trailhead.

00:27:24.120 –> 00:27:28.740 Joseph McElroy: And it’s it follows along the kephart from which is a really.

00:27:31.020 –> 00:27:40.290 Joseph McElroy: Really, you know beautiful spot, and it makes it to a historic shelter and, of course, then you get to cleanse Dome, which is one of the.

00:27:41.280 –> 00:27:52.980 Joseph McElroy: One of the tallest highest point it’s actually the highest point in the park and you can go up clean the road off the, off the newfound gap road to get right up to that spot.

00:27:55.020 –> 00:28:01.410 Joseph McElroy: And then enter the Tennessee we’ll talk about yeah i’m not gonna talk about too much in your tea, but you end up cut you see Jimmy top 20 top.

00:28:02.940 –> 00:28:06.000 Joseph McElroy: You get a couple more trails and the end up going into.

00:28:07.500 –> 00:28:08.550 Joseph McElroy: into the.

00:28:09.660 –> 00:28:10.500 Joseph McElroy: into the.

00:28:12.900 –> 00:28:21.360 Joseph McElroy: what’s called the the sugar lands valley nature trail and and that’s really where the that’s actually the sugar land.

00:28:21.900 –> 00:28:27.150 Joseph McElroy: nate valleys nature trail and gatlinburg where it ends, is the is the largest.

00:28:27.870 –> 00:28:36.030 Joseph McElroy: entrance to the trail with the most people because you know gatlinburg is a huge tourist town it’s got dollywood and things like that so so the.

00:28:36.750 –> 00:28:54.300 Joseph McElroy: two biggest entrance are the Cone lefty and then the sugar lands, and so this you know major this this new cat this new gap newfound gap road goes between the two biggest entrances to the great smoky mountains National Park.

00:28:55.830 –> 00:29:00.870 Joseph McElroy: So what we’ll come back we’ll talk about some more entrances to the national.

00:31:23.340 –> 00:31:29.490 Joseph McElroy: Well howdy this is Joseph Franklin mcilroy with the gateway to the smokies podcast.

00:31:30.840 –> 00:31:38.280 Joseph McElroy: And i’m here talking about the entrances to the smoky mountain great smoky mountain national park and the north Carolina side.

00:31:39.510 –> 00:31:43.020 Joseph McElroy: Now my favorite is one of the most remote.

00:31:44.070 –> 00:31:48.390 Joseph McElroy: entrances to the to the the GS Mt p.

00:31:49.560 –> 00:31:53.790 Joseph McElroy: it’s called cat lucci Valley, and the reason is my favorite because I grew up real near to it.

00:31:55.500 –> 00:31:55.950 Joseph McElroy: it’s.

00:31:57.030 –> 00:32:01.080 Joseph McElroy: it’s a it’s a valley that probably a lot of my ancestors were.

00:32:02.220 –> 00:32:08.310 Joseph McElroy: would go visit and know the people there, you know when they mentioned all the names I know them all.

00:32:09.270 –> 00:32:25.800 Joseph McElroy: They all and so marine life my family tree, so it is my, it has to be my favorite and when I was a kid we’d go there, you know, to go up, and you know in there and go do some hiking and and other things, so it was it was a playground for us.

00:32:27.030 –> 00:32:39.480 Joseph McElroy: kind of beauty valley was actually settled in the 1800s by homesteaders and actually flourished and all the way up until when they made it in the great smoky mountains National Park 1928.

00:32:39.990 –> 00:32:55.920 Joseph McElroy: And that’s when the it started to be rumors in the US Government was buying up land for the park, and so a lot of people started moving out and then by 1938 there was only a few law for a few remain and then the rest of new way.

00:32:58.230 –> 00:33:04.650 Joseph McElroy: But you know because they stayed so long and up until the time that it was it was ending you know, there was being built.

00:33:05.040 –> 00:33:12.240 Joseph McElroy: That there there’s a lot of old Community buildings that were performed pervert preserve for historic display.

00:33:12.750 –> 00:33:30.870 Joseph McElroy: So there’s there’s a there’s an old Chapel called the Palmer Chapel there’s an old barn called the well will Mister Mister barn and there’s a call will place a call wells and message or palmer’s are still big surnames in the in the mountains there, and some of them are my relatives.

00:33:32.730 –> 00:33:40.260 Joseph McElroy: And there’s, but they also you know so it’s it’s a great place to go there’s lots of hiking there’s lots of common ground there’s.

00:33:40.590 –> 00:33:48.870 Joseph McElroy: A lot of wildlife watching I don’t know if you know that but there’s an there’s more diversity birds, I think, and then the great smoky mountains than anywhere else.

00:33:49.320 –> 00:34:05.490 Joseph McElroy: And, of course, fishing is huge catching brown brown brown trout and small small mountain streams, is an adventure and incredibly fun and if you go to the some of the bigger streams a stock it with rainbow trout which gives you a real game fish experience.

00:34:07.020 –> 00:34:07.470 Joseph McElroy: You know, and then.

00:34:10.170 –> 00:34:21.810 Joseph McElroy: The National Park service reintroduced elk into the smoky mountains and they did it and cattle lucci Valley, and it was the first time elk had been in those woods for over 150 years.

00:34:23.220 –> 00:34:42.600 Joseph McElroy: And they have they have actually really thrive their way they and and they actually come out of there now all over the place they’re they’re seeing in cherokee they’re seeing Maggie Valley, there was a video around the other day, with a herd of elk walking into Maggie Valley.

00:34:43.680 –> 00:34:45.810 Joseph McElroy: So it’s it’s not at all.

00:34:49.710 –> 00:35:02.010 Joseph McElroy: To see elk you can you can actually see it in the surrounding towns, but going up in those in that valley and seeing them in their natural habitat and all the different seasons, they do different things it’s it’s incredible experience.

00:35:03.270 –> 00:35:03.900 Joseph McElroy: So.

00:35:05.100 –> 00:35:13.320 Joseph McElroy: Ken lucci valleys general is supposedly open year round, but you know a lot of times, the road to get close because they’re they’re pretty ricky roads getting up in there.

00:35:14.580 –> 00:35:28.080 Joseph McElroy: You you actually have to get off from my 40 X 20 and then you you turn right on to the coal creek road and then you’re going to be drive and almost 11 miles to the cat lucci park entrance.

00:35:29.100 –> 00:35:36.780 Joseph McElroy: But that code creek road is is only paved in some sections and others others it’s just dirt and gravel and sometimes it’s only one way.

00:35:37.260 –> 00:35:50.160 Joseph McElroy: yeah so and it’s got hairpin turns and it’s got rough road, so it can make it, it can make it an adventure to get there, sometimes it can take an hour to get to that 11 miles.

00:35:51.900 –> 00:35:54.000 Joseph McElroy: And even an hour and a half, as what i’ve heard.

00:35:56.580 –> 00:36:09.570 Joseph McElroy: So I was talking about, you know what besides all the net the normal outdoor things that you can do it’s really fun to be aware that you know there’s some definite seasons, to the elk that makes it that makes it.

00:36:11.190 –> 00:36:20.700 Joseph McElroy: Something to go you around to see them, so you know they they have the Calvin caddying seasons, where the CAP calves and Ward and.

00:36:21.630 –> 00:36:33.240 Joseph McElroy: And so you go to try and you know, see the cows see the cows hide that with with their calves, but a lot of times they try to hide them so don’t go try.

00:36:33.780 –> 00:36:45.540 Joseph McElroy: dumping in the deep grass and do anything so get a pretty good pretty protective going to be aggressive, but then by June they’re they’re the casual out, and you can you can see that moving around with the herd.

00:36:47.400 –> 00:36:48.780 Joseph McElroy: Then during the summer, their.

00:36:49.860 –> 00:36:56.550 Joseph McElroy: Their their their out out grazing and the and the bulls are getting rapidly growing new ultra altars.

00:36:57.000 –> 00:37:05.010 Joseph McElroy: And the calves are grown and it’s a pretty exciting time to see them, then in the fall the male’s is a mating season, they in the.

00:37:05.430 –> 00:37:14.640 Joseph McElroy: UFC fights and you’ll see a lot of sounds you’ll see you know, then that’s when they venture out of the mountains, a lot, because they go a long way to see what they can do and find.

00:37:15.600 –> 00:37:25.470 Joseph McElroy: To find a mates and then winter is pretty quiet, it can be hard to get into there, but it can be fun to try to go up there and hike and find them.

00:37:26.910 –> 00:37:34.920 Joseph McElroy: So, but it’s often close it’s not something that you can do some great trails are up in the in the in the cat lucci and there’s.

00:37:35.790 –> 00:37:47.400 Joseph McElroy: there’s something called booger man trail, which is one of the most popular trail with hikers there’s a little cat lucci trail that will take you by the old cabins in the courage there’s the rough for trail, which is sort of an easy.

00:37:48.360 –> 00:37:58.650 Joseph McElroy: To model trip round trip that will go to the woody home site and there’s a little bit longer we went to some people more adventurous and there’s a there’s a something called a pretty how gap.

00:37:59.820 –> 00:38:18.630 Joseph McElroy: that’s it’s a creek side hike up to pretty something called pretty how again that’s another gap in the mountains going over edge, so you can get some great views now cat lucci is located in Johns creek Valley, which is now part of Maggie Valley.

00:38:20.760 –> 00:38:25.590 Joseph McElroy: And I grew up in both in john green valley and Maggie Valley.

00:38:26.730 –> 00:38:30.600 Joseph McElroy: I grew up and was on Johns creek live in something called fox run.

00:38:31.740 –> 00:38:32.940 Joseph McElroy: Which my grandmother.

00:38:34.470 –> 00:38:38.730 Joseph McElroy: Had and actually made into one of the first subdivisions in the mountains.

00:38:40.050 –> 00:38:49.710 Joseph McElroy: But it was very it was still very, very rural I went to a one one room one room basically schoolhouse but it’s.

00:38:50.370 –> 00:38:57.000 Joseph McElroy: When my parents eventually bought a metal Arc motel and Maggie Valley, which you guys might have heard if you’ve listened to before and that’s become our.

00:38:57.240 –> 00:39:04.590 Joseph McElroy: sort of our family homestead This is like 45 years ago and we moved into Maggie valley and we became tourism tourism.

00:39:05.040 –> 00:39:12.420 Joseph McElroy: Experts and you know, there was a there was an amusement park golf bag ghost town, the sky that wasn’t Maggie of Allah which has since closed, that was the big draw and attraction.

00:39:12.840 –> 00:39:21.060 Joseph McElroy: It was a place where they reproduced old West shows, and things like that the Maggie valley gurus a small authentic mountain.

00:39:21.360 –> 00:39:28.350 Joseph McElroy: A tourist town with lots of little roadside mode hotels and motels and craft stores and arts and crafts and.

00:39:28.890 –> 00:39:39.690 Joseph McElroy: square dancing and you know everything sort of authentic you know mountain culture became you know part of the culture of Maggie valley and, to this day Maggie Valley.

00:39:40.020 –> 00:39:49.830 Joseph McElroy: is one of the top little tourist towns in the north Carolina side of the mountains is but it’s very authentic and hasn’t become commercialized, to the extent that the Tennessee side has.

00:39:50.880 –> 00:40:01.230 Joseph McElroy: It has a lot of history, and it has it does have a lot of interesting shops and restaurants has got a lot of wood carvers there it’s got it’s got.

00:40:02.670 –> 00:40:17.040 Joseph McElroy: Its got the wheels through time the museum, which is this museum, full of like millions of dollars worth of old motorcycles and old cars it’s still work and actually world renowned museum people coming from around the world to see it.

00:40:18.420 –> 00:40:28.800 Joseph McElroy: We have Pat, we have you know there’s paddling there’s golfing or zip lines there’s lots of hiking there’s bike trails there’s a ski resort.

00:40:30.300 –> 00:40:43.470 Joseph McElroy: In the mountains and Maggie valley called Cataloochee ski area we have we have places that they do blue grass authentic blue man grass Raymond Fairchild, who was a multi.

00:40:44.190 –> 00:40:49.320 Joseph McElroy: grammy award winning bluegrass player came from Maggie valley so we’re very proud of that.

00:40:49.980 –> 00:41:01.350 Joseph McElroy: We used to be called the world craft capital of clogging there’s a place called the stomping ground that still does you know stopping does clogging all the time and it’s a great place to go and you have wonderful.

00:41:02.820 –> 00:41:09.150 Joseph McElroy: Because it’s right valley and amount you get wonderful viewing of the fall colors and the seasons were part of the quilt trail.

00:41:09.540 –> 00:41:19.140 Joseph McElroy: and new things we got is we’ve got it we’ve gotten some distilleries and breweries, we got the elevated amount Australia, where does whiskey and moonshine bear waters breweries.

00:41:20.250 –> 00:41:29.430 Joseph McElroy: And and there’s a winery we have we have a waterfall that’s really great waterfall part of the waterfall trial color soco soco falls.

00:41:29.850 –> 00:41:41.160 Joseph McElroy: We can there’s a summer and winter to being for kids and we have a we have a mountain heritage stream that goes right through Maggie value with really fresh water and it’s.

00:41:41.790 –> 00:41:52.500 Joseph McElroy: And there’s mountain trout and there’s rainbow trout that are stopped in there and then we have this great festival grounds, called the Maggie valley festival grounds and it’s.

00:41:52.980 –> 00:42:06.960 Joseph McElroy: And we have great music grammy award-winning bands come there and it’s really close to our place the middle or motel so anyway i’m going to tell you briefly about the other three entrances that we had we’ll come back and close the show.

00:44:27.150 –> 00:44:39.150 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin McElroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcast and we’re talking about the entrances on the North Carolina side of the great smoky mountains National Park.

00:44:40.080 –> 00:44:47.700 Joseph McElroy: Now I was talking about Maggie valley there’s another great little town it’s not too far from Maggie aliens other side of Cherokee and it’s called Bryson city.

00:44:48.540 –> 00:45:02.280 Joseph McElroy: And it’s it’s also another great gateway to the great smoky mountains National Park with really great wildflower streams and as part of the Appalachian trail.

00:45:03.780 –> 00:45:15.450 Joseph McElroy: it’s a it’s known for whitewater rafting because both the Texas tech a CG river is there and then that’ll a not a halo river is there and then that HALO river.

00:45:16.110 –> 00:45:25.650 Joseph McElroy: was recommended by ABC is good morning America as the as the number one place to spend a white a wet and wild vacation the US us.

00:45:26.010 –> 00:45:38.940 Joseph McElroy: I remember going there as a kid and they have these areas that are you know very simple and easy to go through, but they got some I think they’re called class for rapids that the the the marines and navy seals come and train on.

00:45:39.990 –> 00:45:51.030 Joseph McElroy: So they got some really crazy and great adventures, I was I got adventurous wanting went down one that was a little bit more advanced and I could not was on the front of the.

00:45:51.450 –> 00:45:58.140 Joseph McElroy: The raffle really small guy was on the back and that was the wrong place for me to be because we hit what that a little waterfall.

00:45:58.560 –> 00:46:12.810 Joseph McElroy: You know, and I hit the bottom and he came flying out because I pushed down he knocked me and I went in the ref one on top of me, and I was twirl around it took me a minute to reach out and grab that thing and push it out of there, but that was the more adventurous.

00:46:14.880 –> 00:46:25.680 Joseph McElroy: experience, I think the net a halo is where some of the deliverance was filmed to his deliverance that movie was filmed in that area and no the banjo player was not my relative I don’t think, but he could have been.

00:46:27.150 –> 00:46:37.530 Joseph McElroy: Also in Bryson city is there’s a smoky mountain trains museum of course that goes along with the great smoky mountains railroad.

00:46:38.010 –> 00:46:51.960 Joseph McElroy: I have a nice mountain railroad and they have a heaven old steam engine pulling cars and do it and taking tourists on tours of the various small towns around the mountains and.

00:46:52.590 –> 00:47:06.870 Joseph McElroy: And you know they’ll have food on these times and they’ll have dinner, you know that have music they’ll have all sorts of different experiences and they want to be called the polar express as during the Christmas and wintertime things for kids that’s very popular.

00:47:08.340 –> 00:47:17.670 Joseph McElroy: They also have a fly fishing museum with you know with all sorts of fishing gear and fly rods from the 1800s.

00:47:18.960 –> 00:47:21.840 Joseph McElroy: So there’s two entrances near.

00:47:23.160 –> 00:47:25.230 Joseph McElroy: near bryson city.

00:47:27.150 –> 00:47:30.630 Joseph McElroy: And you have one is called deep creek, and that is.

00:47:31.680 –> 00:47:40.230 Joseph McElroy: That has a lot of popular river tubing waterfalls and campgrounds it’s just three miles from.

00:47:41.280 –> 00:47:51.480 Joseph McElroy: From the great smoky mountains from the railroad and Bryson city as lots of hiking on it.

00:47:52.650 –> 00:47:59.760 Joseph McElroy: So there’s a lot of nice day trips from braces so you’re able to go up to see the hiking see waterfalls.

00:48:00.870 –> 00:48:08.550 Joseph McElroy: I mean there’s there’s like several that as one of the areas it’s got a lot of them so it’s a nice place to go if you want to see a lot of waterfalls just by hiking.

00:48:08.910 –> 00:48:17.700 Joseph McElroy: You know, near Maggie and Cherokee there are some great driving trails to go see a lot of waterfalls but they have actually one that you can go see a bunch of them with the hiking.

00:48:19.140 –> 00:48:30.930 Joseph McElroy: there’s that they got some creeks you know that are good for tubing most almost all the time, yeah some of the towns like even Maggie valley has great creeks that are good for to me but they’ve had to have a few days of rain first.

00:48:32.490 –> 00:48:34.380 Joseph McElroy: And they have great picnicking there.

00:48:35.760 –> 00:48:36.360 Joseph McElroy: So.

00:48:37.980 –> 00:48:38.310 Joseph McElroy: it’s.

00:48:39.720 –> 00:48:41.550 Joseph McElroy: it’s a great entrance.

00:48:43.200 –> 00:48:46.770 Joseph McElroy: For going and just doing family fun and it’s easy to get to.

00:48:48.420 –> 00:48:57.270 Joseph McElroy: The other entrance near Bryson city is called Lakeview drive and that’s also just about three miles from downtown Bryson city.

00:48:58.740 –> 00:49:09.180 Joseph McElroy: And its actually is better known as the the the the the road to nowhere and I mentioned this before, but.

00:49:09.900 –> 00:49:27.270 Joseph McElroy: You know when those people were leaving in the 1938 and 28 there was a lot of negotiations on you know what would happen after they live left because part of the area was also flooded for the there’s a lake there.

00:49:28.290 –> 00:49:38.280 Joseph McElroy: And called like Fontana, and yeah so leaving their young people are leaving things like you know you know homesteads and old.

00:49:38.880 –> 00:49:46.590 Joseph McElroy: Family graveyard so you know they had an agreement to have a road along the most smoky mountainside of the smoky mountain.

00:49:47.310 –> 00:49:57.660 Joseph McElroy: side of the lake that would go to where they could you know visit their loved ones and things like that, but it got caught up in budgetary concerns and problems and it never got built.

00:49:58.050 –> 00:50:12.150 Joseph McElroy: So there’s a six mile piece and got built and went to a tunnel and then it stops there and then the other side of tenant goes into a trail hiking trail so it’s called the road to nowhere and it’s fairly famous.

00:50:13.380 –> 00:50:26.310 Joseph McElroy: And it’s you know it’s got a lot of beautiful and wonderful things to to go to Atlanta eventually go to Fontana like you can do a lot of hiking there’s a lot of there’s some natural there’s some old buildings along the way.

00:50:28.110 –> 00:50:29.400 Joseph McElroy: it’s a it’s got.

00:50:31.770 –> 00:50:32.670 Joseph McElroy: It actually.

00:50:34.140 –> 00:50:45.090 Joseph McElroy: it’s got several the major trails go there, including I think another trail to claims Dome so that’s another way to get there, which is a great experience.

00:50:46.830 –> 00:50:52.560 Joseph McElroy: And finally, the other, the other entrance is called.

00:50:54.000 –> 00:50:59.670 Joseph McElroy: near five town lake right now Fontana lake is.

00:51:00.810 –> 00:51:09.000 Joseph McElroy: is actually besides Kelly, he values the other remote area, the great smoky mountains, because, basically, you have to get on a boat.

00:51:10.950 –> 00:51:16.020 Joseph McElroy: From on the farm town lake and and have it take you across to one of the small.

00:51:17.190 –> 00:51:21.930 Joseph McElroy: small breweries, on the other side, which is the great smoky mountains and that’s like a 20 mile.

00:51:24.360 –> 00:51:25.200 Joseph McElroy: drive.

00:51:26.880 –> 00:51:39.990 Joseph McElroy: And it’s Luke that that is located near robin’s ville right and robin’s hills and other quaint little town and incident Graham county and it’s starting to be in the foothills of the mountains.

00:51:41.430 –> 00:51:45.000 Joseph McElroy: And it has lots of outdoor adventures and beautiful scenery.

00:51:46.500 –> 00:51:54.720 Joseph McElroy: And it’s it’s a nice place to go to get a lot of relaxation, and of course it’s it’s built around water and like culture.

00:51:55.890 –> 00:52:00.210 Joseph McElroy: And you know you can rent a boat, you can do lots of things that sort of town.

00:52:01.470 –> 00:52:06.270 Joseph McElroy: So we got a lot of great small towns in the mountains there’s only a few of them I got to talk to you about.

00:52:07.200 –> 00:52:16.440 Joseph McElroy: where you can come and have a great refreshing and experience, you can get see studying views you can go home really happy.

00:52:17.430 –> 00:52:35.790 Joseph McElroy: Because you’ve experienced you know those moments in travel that are worth living and you know it’s a way to get rid of that despair that we all sort of existing in with this pandemic in politics everything else, so let me finish up with.

00:52:37.260 –> 00:52:46.650 Joseph McElroy: You know who would I want to know why i’m doing this, I you know i’ve got a family motel for the middle of motel it’s a classic roadside.

00:52:47.790 –> 00:53:00.090 Joseph McElroy: motel it’s been in my family for 45 years and I think the motel itself is around 70 years old it’s been renovated, we got some beautiful rooms, you have a huge facility for doing weddings.

00:53:01.260 –> 00:53:09.720 Joseph McElroy: Big big recreation area where we have fire pits and this goes fishing stream goes through it there’s another stream so we’re actually at the confluence of two streams, which is.

00:53:10.050 –> 00:53:16.800 Joseph McElroy: very lucky for weddings and people who have barbecues we ever usually during the summer, we have a free Barbecue every Saturday night.

00:53:17.160 –> 00:53:27.060 Joseph McElroy: We have lots of music friend of mine was a former drummer, for the simple minds exploring Scottish roots of the Appalachian music and he’s playing there all the time.

00:53:27.600 –> 00:53:38.520 Joseph McElroy: I have another site called smokey adventures COM, or you can go to to get listings about all these things I talked about which is like hiking and wedding places.

00:53:38.910 –> 00:53:43.770 Joseph McElroy: Then you can also buy books and trail maps that help you explore the smoky mountains.

00:53:44.160 –> 00:53:53.700 Joseph McElroy: and find other resources that are really great for you’re planning your travels in the smoky mountains and then I’m part of where traveler magazines.

00:53:54.510 –> 00:54:03.870 Joseph McElroy: yeah network, and I have built a section all about the smoky mountains, where traveler calm slashes great smoky mountains with dashes between the.

00:54:04.260 –> 00:54:12.120 Joseph McElroy: In the where the spaces should be and it’s been around for 80 years that magazines got a lot of visitors and we’re doing more in-depth stories.

00:54:12.510 –> 00:54:23.070 Joseph McElroy: And profiles of experts and people enter stories that you can go there to fill your anticipation for coming to the mountains.

00:54:23.640 –> 00:54:37.020 Joseph McElroy: Next week, going to have Bob Plott is a third is the third great-grandson of Johannes George plot who first brought the plot bear hounds to America.

00:54:37.440 –> 00:54:54.240 Joseph McElroy: In the mid-18th century and he’s the great great nephew of Henry plot who enters the breed of the great smoky mountains in the early 1800s he is got an incredible resume of dealing with doing stuff in the cultural realm as well as the marketing around.

00:54:55.290 –> 00:55:00.420 Joseph McElroy: he’s written several books and he’s full of information, and I think we’re talking a lot about.

00:55:00.750 –> 00:55:14.100 Joseph McElroy: These plot hounds in their car and the cultural impact that they had upon humming in the mountains and I look forward to having you again next week same time same channel, thank you very much I’ll see you soon ciao.

With guests Mike Ogletree and Val Gene Hamilton...

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Tune in for this fun conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.

Ancient natural beauty and mountain history. Joseph’s family has had deep roots in the Smokies for almost 200 years. Today Joseph Mcelroy will be discussing the road life in the smokies. The mountains are a popular attraction for sightseeing and exploration with many wonderful roadside restaurants. Yesterday was Robert Burns's birthday so later a guest will talk about the food that was eaten at that dinner. Bulloch parkway is one of the many sights. There is also the Blue Ridge which runs down the spine of US RT 441. Blue Ridge Parkway was constructed under President Roosevelt's administration beginning in September 1935. Because it was designated a National Park there were new rules for land. Residents were unable to make commercial developments to their land for use for anything other than agriculture. This would later change to come extent. The Cherokee section opened in the 1950s. The entrance to Blue Ridge begins in Swain County. Cherokee Valley and Blue Ridge Parkway have a lot of places where you can stop and enjoy the scenery.

Another well-known road is the Road to Nowhere, an unfinished road in Bryson city. The project started when the government took over public and private land to build the Fontana Dam. Locals were assured that they would be reimbursed with a road allowing displaced residents to access family cemeteries. Construction began in the 40s then stalled due to environmental issues. The road to nowhere stops at a tunnel that leads to a trail.

Val Gene Hamilton, also known as Pops. He is the owner of Pops Place, a roadside restaurant in Maggie Valley. Pops in a motorcyclist and an expert in roadside dining. In addition, Pops is also the first African American elected to the Maggie Valley Chamber of Commerce. Before coming to maggie Valley Pops was living in Florida but a friend in Transylvania County encouraged pops to move and work for him. They worked together for three months before that partnership ended and he has lived in the mountains for 30 years since. By October of 2016, he became the owner of Pops Place. His restaurant is a classic roadside diner. Pops is a biker who didn’t start this until he turned fifty. Buddies of his pushed him to ride. He now owns a Suzuki 109. All of his sons ride motorcycles and his grandsons ride dirt bikes. Pop and Joseph share stories about their childhoods and the antics that they engaged in.

If you like curves, ride in the mountains. While it is a renowned trail, the problem with the very popular Tail of the Dragon Trail is that many younger people on sports bikes ride so fast that they get too close to other riders. People also need to be cautious of the wildlife while riding. This trail is one of the premiere spots for sports car touring. People come from all over, even abroad. Pops recalls a time when he encountered a Russian tourist that rented bikes and rode the trail. Maggie, Gatlinburg, and Cherokee valley have many festivals for riders. There is a lot of road culture. Diamondback Cherohala Skyway is two trails that Pops recommend. Six years ago with his biking club, the GT Rider, they planned a trip to the Cherohala Skyway. It was their first ride of the year, and pop just replaced a bad tire. He got a call that they would have a run on Saturday. After riding 300 hundred miles, Pops slept for 3 days.

Joined by Mike Ogletree who is here to talk about Robert Burns. One of Burns's poems was a humorous one called the Address to Haggis. It described the virtues of haggis and how they made the Scotts strong. Mike recites this poem.

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00:00:36.480 –> 00:00:52.200 Joseph McElroy: howdy thanks for joining us on this week’s episode of gateway to the smokies podcast this podcast is about America’s most visited National Park, the great smoky mountains national park and the surrounding towns.

00:00:53.250 –> 00:01:04.170 Joseph McElroy: This area’s filled with ancient natural beauty deep storied history and rich mountain cultures that we will explore with weekly episodes.

00:01:05.340 –> 00:01:22.260 Joseph McElroy: Now I’m Joseph Franklin McElroy man of the world, but also a deep roots in these mountains My family has lived in the great smokies for over 200 years, so they weren’t cold great scope smokies back then I don’t think they might have been, but I don’t know.

00:01:23.970 –> 00:01:25.200 Joseph McElroy: I have to research that now.

00:01:26.280 –> 00:01:30.090 Joseph McElroy: My business is in travel, but my heart is in culture.

00:01:31.560 –> 00:01:47.160 Joseph McElroy: Now today we’re going to be talking about road life in the smokies whether you’re going nowhere or somewhere the smokies has great roads to sightsee and experience local culture by auto motorcycle bicycle even horseback.

00:01:48.960 –> 00:01:55.560 Joseph McElroy: there’s also wonderful roadsides restaurants and attractions, and all these mountains.

00:01:56.580 –> 00:02:02.760 Joseph McElroy: I will have i’m hoping my guests are trying to log on my guest today will be able to give stories on both.

00:02:04.500 –> 00:02:06.750 Joseph McElroy: And not we’ll talk about this.

00:02:08.280 –> 00:02:12.840 Joseph McElroy: And then I want you to hang on to the end and we’ll we’re going to talk about a holiday yesterday.

00:02:13.410 –> 00:02:22.290 Joseph McElroy: called the Robert Burns day that some people in the smoky mountains Gus celebrate because he was a he was a popular post of the original Scottish Irish settlers.

00:02:22.890 –> 00:02:40.260 Joseph McElroy: And we’re going to specifically, since this is talking about food as part of our program talk about the food eat at that traditional dinner Mike ogletree my guest, a few weeks ago will also give us a rarity live recitation of a dialect for the toast to the haggis.

00:02:44.160 –> 00:02:45.480 Joseph McElroy: So I want to talk about.

00:02:47.730 –> 00:02:49.200 Joseph McElroy: The road somewhere.

00:02:53.490 –> 00:03:06.090 Joseph McElroy: Ridge parkway which is america’s longest longest linear park runs for 469 miles wicking the shenandoah National Park, to the great smokies National Park.

00:03:07.380 –> 00:03:14.430 Joseph McElroy: It runs mostly along the spine of the blue Ridge, a major mountain Ridge chain that’s part of the appalachian mountains.

00:03:16.350 –> 00:03:30.240 Joseph McElroy: It ends us route for one which is on the boundary between the great smoky mountains national park and the cherokee Indian reservation in North Carolina now route 4441 will probably talk about.

00:03:30.570 –> 00:03:38.400 Joseph McElroy: either today or some other day it’s important port road in the great smoky mountains in the road life that you might enjoy there.

00:03:41.100 –> 00:03:41.460 Joseph McElroy: And it.

00:03:42.930 –> 00:03:46.740 Joseph McElroy: And it’s great the blue Ridge parkway.

00:03:47.820 –> 00:03:54.300 Joseph McElroy: Which is that road to somewhere little bit bigger and during the administration of President Franklin D Roosevelt.

00:03:55.980 –> 00:04:01.170 Joseph McElroy: prepared project was originally called the appalachian state and.

00:04:03.360 –> 00:04:09.570 Joseph McElroy: The appalachian state scenic highway and work began on September 11 1935.

00:04:13.350 –> 00:04:15.900 Joseph McElroy: It is it was it was started in.

00:04:17.220 –> 00:04:34.800 Joseph McElroy: is starting to your Cumberland knob in North Carolina and then construction began in Virginia, the following February, then in June 30 1936 Congress formally authorized the project has been Ridge parkway and placed it on the jurisdiction.

00:04:36.300 –> 00:04:37.950 Joseph McElroy: Of the National Park service.

00:04:40.620 –> 00:04:41.730 Joseph McElroy: The National Park.

00:04:44.880 –> 00:04:46.530 Joseph McElroy: The park right construction created.

00:04:47.730 –> 00:04:55.800 Joseph McElroy: Jobs and the regime, but also displace many residents and create a new rules and regulations for landowners, including.

00:04:56.310 –> 00:05:05.070 Joseph McElroy: requirements related to how farmers could transport COP props you imagine that people didn’t have a lot of rules before then started having rules like.

00:05:05.760 –> 00:05:12.510 Joseph McElroy: They can no longer build on their lands without permission or development land, except for agricultural use.

00:05:13.080 –> 00:05:24.780 Joseph McElroy: And they were not even used to use this part right for commercial trial, so there was a little bit of upset back in those times, and then the eastern band of the cherokees got it and they were affected by the parkway.

00:05:25.980 –> 00:05:32.610 Joseph McElroy: It was it was built through their lives and they in from 35 until 40 they resisted given up the right away.

00:05:33.720 –> 00:05:38.070 Joseph McElroy: Through what’s called the quality boundary we were talking about that someday pretty interesting place.

00:05:39.480 –> 00:05:46.410 Joseph McElroy: And they were successful in getting more favorable terms from the end they were successful game gaining more favorable terms from the US Government.

00:05:48.060 –> 00:05:54.810 Joseph McElroy: and, specifically, they got some money and they got to specify the parkway route, but really important for me personally.

00:05:55.440 –> 00:06:07.980 Joseph McElroy: they’ve acquired the state to build a regular highway through soco valley and that’s the highway refer to us 1919 which goes through Maggie Valley, where I have a motel call him, Mr hotel.

00:06:10.050 –> 00:06:16.650 Joseph McElroy: And so, then the cherokee Indian leaders participate in the dedication, so when the cherokee sections open the 1950s.

00:06:18.630 –> 00:06:29.670 Joseph McElroy: The park at the park way begins in swain county cherokee at the entrance to the great smoky mountain national park and it’s a beautiful little drive through all the fall.

00:06:30.480 –> 00:06:42.480 Joseph McElroy: Sometimes clothes do in the winter due to weather and and you have plenty of time to enjoy the ride because it’s 45 mile per hour drive and now there’s someplace where people get pretty slow.

00:06:44.910 –> 00:06:50.550 Joseph McElroy: And and and you know there’s not a lot of restrooms and dining spots on the parkway itself so that’s.

00:06:50.970 –> 00:07:01.200 Joseph McElroy: that’s more from a for a beautiful drive getting from one place to another and a couple of those drives it from one place to another, as well as the cherokee to balsam gap.

00:07:01.830 –> 00:07:05.400 Joseph McElroy: it’s about a 26 mile for charity, to the ball some gap.

00:07:06.270 –> 00:07:21.660 Joseph McElroy: Which is just west of North Carolina and I don’t know if you listen last week we were talking about them balsam mountain range and the music group balsam range well, that is true that’s right smack middle in the balsam balsam range mountain range.

00:07:22.710 –> 00:07:29.400 Joseph McElroy: Where that comes out in your ways always was a pretty nice little tourists down to go visit got a lot of things going on it’s not too far from an EVAL.

00:07:31.440 –> 00:07:42.840 Joseph McElroy: And you along that route you’ll get to pass the big which overlook or the view of cherokee valley and water water off knob where there’s a visitor information station and a conference Center Center.

00:07:43.260 –> 00:07:44.250 mike: So i’ll just have to hold it.

00:07:55.230 –> 00:08:05.400 Joseph McElroy: And it has a spectacular view and there’s a there’s a half mile mile trial to the summit for even better view and, as a nearly 360 degree vantage point are uniquely suited for.

00:08:06.270 –> 00:08:16.350 Joseph McElroy: For viewing a photographic sunrise and sunset and let me tell you that blue Ridge parkway even see a lot of those really long, this is where those beautiful sunsets.

00:08:16.740 –> 00:08:29.100 Joseph McElroy: A lot of them are taken from the new blue Ridge parkway because they got a lot of place reading stop and they cleared it out enough that you can just see for miles and miles forever it’s like looking at you know the heavens forever.

00:08:30.660 –> 00:08:37.920 Joseph McElroy: And another one of those drives it’s pretty good as interim out more about the ball some gap to map pisco.

00:08:39.120 –> 00:08:54.960 Joseph McElroy: This 35 miles begins just west of waynesville at the muscle get interest, and it goes through several beautiful overlooks, including the Richard Richard Richard Wang ball some overlooked and which is at the highest point on the blue Ridge parkway.

00:08:56.280 –> 00:09:05.940 Joseph McElroy: So you know, the road to somewhere it goes, all the way up to the Santo Santo valley it’s a beautiful drive it’s a much bigger trip.

00:09:07.080 –> 00:09:14.160 Joseph McElroy: That, if you want to gauge upon but you know there’s an interesting little trip, you can take and that’s the road to nowhere all right.

00:09:14.790 –> 00:09:28.380 Joseph McElroy: it’s the nickname of an unfinished six mile stretch of highway that’s it starts in bryson city and it represents and unfulfilled promise by the US Government to a small community and sway and count.

00:09:29.520 –> 00:09:47.010 Joseph McElroy: started and 30s or 50s when the federal government, the Tennessee valley authority took over 67,000 acres of public and private land and grand sweating counties and it built the Fontana damn creating the Fontana lake and part of the great smoky mountains National Park.

00:09:49.590 –> 00:10:00.210 Joseph McElroy: In compensation for the land, which had been owned by many families for generations, I mean, these are real folks losing their land again they weren’t all entirely happy about that.

00:10:00.660 –> 00:10:07.830 Joseph McElroy: The GM government promise to reimburse Wayne county for the loss of the flooded highway two to eight, which would provide access to the area.

00:10:09.870 –> 00:10:21.690 Joseph McElroy: Another insurance that there’d be a road approximate 30 miles long that would follow the northern shorter like help substitute for the highway allow the displace residence to access their family cemeteries.

00:10:22.080 –> 00:10:31.320 Joseph McElroy: Now I know growing up my family had we had one and other families, did you have these old cemetery where he buried your family so not been able to get to them would be pretty dramatic.

00:10:32.850 –> 00:10:40.980 Joseph McElroy: And so, this road was started in the 40s and extended about six miles, but then it stopped in 1969 because environmental issues.

00:10:42.150 –> 00:10:53.010 Joseph McElroy: And know around the year 2000 Congressman Charlie Patterson is your Jesse Helms got some money, the fall on that road continuing was never completed.

00:10:55.050 –> 00:11:01.500 Joseph McElroy: And a lot of us do more productive and more construction costs, and it remains us and it remains a sensitive issue.

00:11:03.090 –> 00:11:08.850 Joseph McElroy: Then is viewed as a broken promise promise but what’s interesting is this broken road to nowhere stops.

00:11:11.970 –> 00:11:13.080 Joseph McElroy: It stops.

00:11:14.250 –> 00:11:20.070 Joseph McElroy: At a tunnel all right, and then we walked through that tunnel there’s nothing on the side, but a trail right.

00:11:21.900 –> 00:11:32.250 Joseph McElroy: So it might be guess they started about three miles outside of the city and it has beautiful abuse upon town lake and the Texas Texas easy river.

00:11:32.670 –> 00:11:37.530 Joseph McElroy: As well as encounters with woodlands and many small screens and it runs around.

00:11:38.040 –> 00:11:48.600 Joseph McElroy: That time and then the payment ends after the Channel and you get on the cup you get you get on this what’s called the lake shore trail, and it goes for 35 miles to find time a damn.

00:11:49.530 –> 00:11:58.050 Joseph McElroy: there’s also some there’s also some other trails along there call the Goldman loop trail loop and the tunnel bypass trail.

00:11:58.590 –> 00:12:09.510 Joseph McElroy: there’s also old homesteads and builders along these trails and then there’s another trail brands, called the nolan creek trail that leads to the the GS MPs highest peak cleveland’s doll.

00:12:10.830 –> 00:12:20.220 Joseph McElroy: Which is a really famous landmark in place to go it’s it’s it’s in the great the great smoky mountains National Park it’s the highest peak there and it.

00:12:20.940 –> 00:12:39.030 Joseph McElroy: it’s a there’s a lot of there’s a lot of hiking trails and go from there as well, so it’s a recommended it’s a recommended a wonderful adventure I think so there’s a couple there’s a couple great drives there that to you, you can do one to know where one to every one of the somewhere.

00:12:40.110 –> 00:12:54.450 Joseph McElroy: And you know that that drive for 41 that then connects to us 19 that then goes to cherokee and goes through Maggie Valley, it goes by late June Alaska goes through Clyde it goes through canton.

00:12:54.780 –> 00:13:05.820 Joseph McElroy: Then it picks up the highway for a little while that goes into actual that’s a really nice drive for a road drive to see some things and it’s a pretty low lowland drive that you can do as opposed to.

00:13:06.960 –> 00:13:19.950 Joseph McElroy: To one over the mountains so anyway, when we get back my guests, I think, are here and we will we will talk about motorcycle rides and food stuffs in the mountains of North Carolina.

00:15:49.560 –> 00:15:55.200 Joseph McElroy: hey this is Joseph mcilroy back with gateway to the smokies podcast.

00:15:56.250 –> 00:16:14.520 Joseph McElroy: One welcome you all back my guest today or now Dean Hamilton also notice POPs and he’s owner of the famous POPs place roadside restaurant Maggie valley pop is an avid motorcyclist as well as an expert and roadside fine dining.

00:16:15.630 –> 00:16:26.790 Joseph McElroy: is going to share his experience in the smoky mountains with us also with us as our mutual friend Michael ogletree was a guest on this show three weeks back and who is a resident musician is.

00:16:26.790 –> 00:16:27.900 Joseph McElroy: In the middle arm.

00:16:28.440 –> 00:16:38.880 Joseph McElroy: And a former drummer of the band simple minds at the end he’s going to talk about food at the traditional Robert Burns supper which was holiday was yesterday Hello POPs how you doing.

00:16:39.090 –> 00:16:41.070 Mike Ogletree: i’m doing fine Joseph how are you.

00:16:41.340 –> 00:16:42.750 Joseph McElroy: I can I call you POPs.

00:16:42.840 –> 00:16:45.450 Mike Ogletree: You can call me anything but late for dinner, and my friend.

00:16:47.190 –> 00:16:48.450 Joseph McElroy: how’d you get that nickname.

00:16:49.170 –> 00:16:58.470 Mike Ogletree: My children started it and you know when they as they got a little older and then all their friends and so on, so forth on most of my friends call me pop.

00:16:58.800 –> 00:17:00.630 Joseph McElroy: Really what’s a good nickname right.

00:17:00.660 –> 00:17:01.530 Mike Ogletree: yeah yeah.

00:17:02.160 –> 00:17:05.820 Joseph McElroy: it’s casual and Chris got gravitas at the same time yeah.

00:17:07.440 –> 00:17:13.620 Joseph McElroy: I hear I hear graduations in order you just got one elected to the board of the Maggie valley Chamber commerce.

00:17:13.980 –> 00:17:16.140 Mike Ogletree: Correct correct it’s quite an honor.

00:17:17.970 –> 00:17:22.440 Mike Ogletree: I love it here at Maggie and so you know i’ve been here like six years so.

00:17:22.890 –> 00:17:25.590 Joseph McElroy: Are you a long time that we’ve been a Member for a while and.

00:17:26.040 –> 00:17:30.000 Mike Ogletree: Ever since we opened up this shop we joined the Chamber.

00:17:30.210 –> 00:17:36.900 Joseph McElroy: yeah well here’s you know it’s a little bit of a milestone because you’re the first African American elected to position and manage right.

00:17:36.960 –> 00:17:37.560 Mike Ogletree: And all.

00:17:39.240 –> 00:17:41.160 Joseph McElroy: that’s that’s pretty big statement, I think.

00:17:41.460 –> 00:17:44.190 Mike Ogletree: accepted it really is yeah yes.

00:17:44.490 –> 00:17:54.990 Joseph McElroy: yeah well i’m pretty happy that you’re in that position, because I know you’re a great businessman, and you only help build the business and Maggie valley and all the smoky mountains, I think that’s.

00:17:55.320 –> 00:17:56.100 Mike Ogletree: working for.

00:17:56.130 –> 00:17:59.580 Joseph McElroy: yeah so tell me how did you end up in North Carolina.

00:18:00.900 –> 00:18:21.090 Mike Ogletree: I was living in Florida and a buddy of mine had restaurant over in Transylvania county over and Beauvoir that was 1987 and he asked me if I come work for him, so I came he lasted about three months after i’ve been there and i’ve been here over 30 years wow.

00:18:22.170 –> 00:18:24.120 Joseph McElroy: So mountains become your hometown right.

00:18:24.210 –> 00:18:25.560 Mike Ogletree: Oh it’s my home yeah.

00:18:25.800 –> 00:18:28.560 Joseph McElroy: yeah yeah you got a sort of a mountain accent there.

00:18:30.360 –> 00:18:32.700 Mike Ogletree: Is between that New York in that country.

00:18:36.240 –> 00:18:37.260 Joseph McElroy: Forget about it.

00:18:39.570 –> 00:18:40.500 Joseph McElroy: Forget about it.

00:18:44.070 –> 00:18:50.940 Joseph McElroy: Oh that’s pretty cool so so you you’re working in the restaurant business and for bard and then moved on to other restaurants, I assume.

00:18:50.940 –> 00:18:58.710 Mike Ogletree: yeah I am that place ended up they sold it out and I ended up working out like tops were country club.

00:18:59.940 –> 00:19:06.600 Mike Ogletree: For about five or six years I left there and went to micah’s in sapphire and.

00:19:07.740 –> 00:19:16.260 Mike Ogletree: Then got a job down here in our silver and then I live in cherokee for 20 years in.

00:19:17.610 –> 00:19:21.180 Mike Ogletree: Between bryson and here for the last 10 years or so.

00:19:21.660 –> 00:19:27.600 Joseph McElroy: cool that’s pretty good, so the us open up this restaurant six six years ago and Maggie Valley.

00:19:28.140 –> 00:19:30.300 Joseph McElroy: yeah how did that come about and tell us about.

00:19:30.330 –> 00:19:32.970 Mike Ogletree: tell us a little bit well, I was, I was actually.

00:19:34.050 –> 00:19:42.870 Mike Ogletree: out on disability and my son came to me, and he said pop let’s go check out this restaurant, I was like man I ain’t trying to go back to.

00:19:44.340 –> 00:19:57.660 Mike Ogletree: i’m done with work, you know and so he went and checked it out and the rent was right there locations perfect place a little small, but we do pretty well and.

00:19:58.440 –> 00:20:16.860 Mike Ogletree: So we started it and he and I lasted together about a year and a half, and then I took it over and October of 16 and just last year he opened up POPs butts on the creek right down the road, a little bit BA ma and.

00:20:18.180 –> 00:20:22.710 Mike Ogletree: So that’s going strong so actually the family has to as props and Maggie Valley.

00:20:23.070 –> 00:20:24.300 Joseph McElroy: yeah that’s pretty impressive.

00:20:24.870 –> 00:20:30.510 Joseph McElroy: yeah so your your restaurant is sort of a classic roadside would you call it a diner.

00:20:30.840 –> 00:20:32.100 Joseph McElroy: Correct yeah.

00:20:32.490 –> 00:20:35.760 Mike Ogletree: yeah yeah you know you’re you’re you’re omelets.

00:20:37.080 –> 00:20:46.230 Mike Ogletree: eggs anyway, you want on pancakes waffles shrimp and grits like you’re never going anywhere in your life guarantee.

00:20:47.760 –> 00:20:49.500 Joseph McElroy: yeah I have a shrimp and grits and.

00:20:50.640 –> 00:20:52.440 Joseph McElroy: biscuits and gravy are pretty famous are.

00:20:52.740 –> 00:21:05.640 Mike Ogletree: They are yes, Sir, yes biscuits every day for us gravy you know I use good products, you know I try to use good products and we love what we do so, it comes out in the food.

00:21:08.310 –> 00:21:12.330 Joseph McElroy: You have any of any of those traditional mountain foods like red I gravy or.

00:21:12.630 –> 00:21:13.920 Mike Ogletree: Not, no, no.

00:21:14.730 –> 00:21:16.830 Mike Ogletree: I didn’t have yellow stone ground grits.

00:21:17.310 –> 00:21:19.020 Joseph McElroy: Just on the ground it’s there you go.

00:21:20.580 –> 00:21:24.690 Mike Ogletree: I had to bring my little my New York player down with my with my nails you know.

00:21:25.710 –> 00:21:26.130 Mike Ogletree: and

00:21:27.180 –> 00:21:31.890 Mike Ogletree: You know, we come from a family of bunch of cooks cooks.

00:21:32.100 –> 00:21:32.610 Joseph McElroy: Well that’s right.

00:21:33.720 –> 00:21:40.170 Joseph McElroy: Well, I know that whenever i’m whenever i’m Maggie I I stopped by your place if I can we go get a breakfast.

00:21:40.440 –> 00:21:44.100 Joseph McElroy: I know it’s it’s those biscuits are really good.

00:21:46.860 –> 00:21:55.320 Mike Ogletree: To say, can you give me the recipe for them biscuits I said, surely, but you gotta realize, you have to make like 60 this is that time.

00:21:55.590 –> 00:21:55.920 yeah.

00:21:57.930 –> 00:22:01.050 Mike Ogletree: i’m not gonna break it down for you, you can have the rest of the.

00:22:03.030 –> 00:22:08.220 Joseph McElroy: POPs is right in the middle of the town it’s right across from the festival grounds right.

00:22:08.580 –> 00:22:11.490 Mike Ogletree: Correct yeah we’re right right in the middle of town.

00:22:11.610 –> 00:22:19.380 Joseph McElroy: And the festival grounds, if you go there for one of the festival POPs is a great place to stop off it’s a classic roadside place now has pretty famous and.

00:22:19.560 –> 00:22:21.360 Mike Ogletree: Real hot coffee, you know.

00:22:21.660 –> 00:22:22.200 Joseph McElroy: Real hot.

00:22:23.280 –> 00:22:29.610 Joseph McElroy: butts on the creek is more towards the entrance to the town from coming from the wayne’s will side right.

00:22:29.640 –> 00:22:30.060 Mike Ogletree: Right.

00:22:30.420 –> 00:22:37.170 Joseph McElroy: I think it’s it’s a cool place because I went out when you go in, there you go to drive basically driving off the side of a cliff.

00:22:41.370 –> 00:22:41.850 Joseph McElroy: Should.

00:22:41.910 –> 00:22:44.070 Joseph McElroy: Real fast down and read.

00:22:44.280 –> 00:22:48.690 Joseph McElroy: It again okay you’re back and forth method to get that little pocket park last many.

00:22:49.710 –> 00:22:53.640 Joseph McElroy: Years there’s This basically it’s it’s essentially just a giant shack right.

00:22:54.180 –> 00:23:05.160 Mike Ogletree: yeah actually you know it’s a metal building that they they made into a cabin structure of it is metal and they just put whatever.

00:23:05.220 –> 00:23:06.570 Joseph McElroy: It is looks like a giant.

00:23:06.570 –> 00:23:07.260 Joseph McElroy: shack right.

00:23:07.350 –> 00:23:07.740 Mike Ogletree: yeah.

00:23:07.830 –> 00:23:13.260 Joseph McElroy: it’s got all these it’s got like these long Porches the screened in essentially.

00:23:13.320 –> 00:23:16.200 Joseph McElroy: Correct right they go right over the creek right yeah.

00:23:16.230 –> 00:23:16.800 Mike Ogletree: We just.

00:23:18.000 –> 00:23:26.700 Mike Ogletree: kind of insulated that so we can stay open all year round, so yeah they do real well down there they the best brisket around.

00:23:27.540 –> 00:23:29.070 Joseph McElroy: This really yeah and that’s.

00:23:29.730 –> 00:23:31.170 Mike Ogletree: chicken poop or.

00:23:31.710 –> 00:23:32.940 Joseph McElroy: classic roadside.

00:23:33.210 –> 00:23:33.540 Mike Ogletree: Yes.

00:23:34.050 –> 00:23:35.370 Joseph McElroy: Is that is that.

00:23:36.480 –> 00:23:39.180 Joseph McElroy: So so you’ve been in the.

00:23:41.310 –> 00:23:44.850 Joseph McElroy: You say we’re looking at the okay so we’re.

00:23:46.770 –> 00:23:50.790 Joseph McElroy: we’re in that you were in the mountains now and have you been motorcycle in your whole life.

00:23:51.330 –> 00:23:54.480 Mike Ogletree: No, I actually never started riding until I turned.

00:23:54.480 –> 00:23:57.630 Joseph McElroy: 51 now.

00:23:57.630 –> 00:23:59.850 Mike Ogletree: For that I made that.

00:23:59.910 –> 00:24:11.760 Mike Ogletree: You know 20 miles on somebody bike you know, a couple of miles here a couple miles there you know yeah never really road and I when I was 50 some buddies of mine.

00:24:13.170 –> 00:24:18.660 Mike Ogletree: That were ride and matt kept on pushing the man come on man try just hop on my bike though man.

00:24:19.110 –> 00:24:25.980 Mike Ogletree: And I wouldn’t do it wouldn’t do it, and then a buddy of mine another buddy of mine came yeah a little Honda shadow 600.

00:24:26.580 –> 00:24:36.990 Mike Ogletree: He was trying to sell it the money was right, the low mileage bike was right, I little money in my pocket and and now I ride a it’s all seven.

00:24:37.860 –> 00:24:52.290 Mike Ogletree: Suzuki em 109 and love it I love power cruiser you know you can still get those sporty with it, you know what I mean but it’s a big cruiser big 1800 yeah.

00:24:52.350 –> 00:24:55.170 Joseph McElroy: wow now how does your family feel about you doing all that.

00:24:55.320 –> 00:24:58.200 Mike Ogletree: Voters all day long at all my son’s ride.

00:24:58.350 –> 00:25:14.460 Mike Ogletree: That they all right, my one son justin he’s got all his kids are riding dirt bikes and four wheelers and my son now jr he rides with me all the time we go do the Daytona trip with toys are on the air, you know stuff like that.

00:25:14.820 –> 00:25:21.390 Joseph McElroy: We know when I was growing up at the meadowlark my my brother than that you used to have a trail bike that we’d write all through that backyard.

00:25:23.730 –> 00:25:24.450 Mike Ogletree: backyard.

00:25:25.020 –> 00:25:33.600 Joseph McElroy: backyard we do run all over thing you know the bad thing we do is we were sort of bad boys, we would take bb guns and we wear helmets to try to shoot each other.

00:25:37.290 –> 00:25:40.770 Joseph McElroy: You know, when you live in when you go up the mountain sometimes you got to make up funny.

00:25:40.950 –> 00:25:41.310 yeah.

00:25:43.500 –> 00:25:48.510 Joseph McElroy: Before we move to that before we move them out of that metal Arc we had lived up in the mountains.

00:25:49.380 –> 00:25:50.280 Joseph McElroy: We had built some.

00:25:50.310 –> 00:25:54.390 Joseph McElroy: We had built some trails and you know that was sort of the thing to ambush each other.

00:25:54.900 –> 00:25:55.560 Mike Ogletree: Right right.

00:25:56.790 –> 00:26:01.320 Mike Ogletree: It leads to snowball fight, you know because i’m from orange county New York so.

00:26:01.350 –> 00:26:08.700 Mike Ogletree: yeah i’m around no town, you know grew up there, and you know the ice balls there are no snowballs there was ice balls.

00:26:11.490 –> 00:26:14.400 Joseph McElroy: funny you’re sitting down in the middle Arc and i’m sitting up in New York City or.

00:26:17.550 –> 00:26:17.670 Mike Ogletree: A.

00:26:20.490 –> 00:26:22.080 Mike Ogletree: Small dog Joseph.

00:26:23.490 –> 00:26:28.080 Joseph McElroy: Well, you know different appear right now, you can’t get you can’t get out as much as you can down there I keep.

00:26:28.080 –> 00:26:28.470 writing.

00:26:29.610 –> 00:26:33.120 Joseph McElroy: But you know if you come to go down you got come back you got a quantity for two weeks.

00:26:33.150 –> 00:26:38.220 Mike Ogletree: yeah I know I since I saw you last I found that I had.

00:26:39.300 –> 00:26:40.740 Mike Ogletree: set a twin daughters.

00:26:41.160 –> 00:26:57.210 Mike Ogletree: yeah 51 years old 10 grandchildren 13 great grandchildren great grandchildren and they live on the island, you know, and they want to come back and forth, and so our trump does you know, trying to quarantine and all that you know.

00:26:57.600 –> 00:27:01.470 Mike Ogletree: But I can’t wait to meet all these his family man, I feel blessed.

00:27:01.770 –> 00:27:06.210 Joseph McElroy: Well, you know i’m 59 years old and I got to I got a two year old twins.

00:27:09.300 –> 00:27:10.290 Joseph McElroy: Oh, my goodness.

00:27:12.540 –> 00:27:14.130 Joseph McElroy: they’re rocking the House right now.

00:27:17.040 –> 00:27:20.910 Joseph McElroy: I need that four acre backyard, let them do the run around delete them, so I.

00:27:23.670 –> 00:27:26.490 Mike Ogletree: Raised my boys up in small town America.

00:27:26.610 –> 00:27:36.780 Mike Ogletree: yeah heck with this city small town America running adwords get out the House go play get tired, because when it’s bedtime I want to go to bed.

00:27:37.590 –> 00:27:43.470 Joseph McElroy: Thinking about walking down the street down the sidewalk with them and have them when there’s a rat come out of a garbage can say.

00:27:48.840 –> 00:27:49.830 Joseph McElroy: I don’t think my walk.

00:27:49.920 –> 00:27:51.390 Joseph McElroy: My wife, let me do that.

00:27:59.070 –> 00:28:07.830 Joseph McElroy: Alright, well, we come back we’ll talk a little bit more about the the writing the smoky mountains and then we’ll get into a little bit of some of the places to go up there all right well.

00:28:08.190 –> 00:28:09.000 Mike Ogletree: For sure.

00:30:31.500 –> 00:30:48.630 Joseph McElroy: howdy, this is a Joseph McElroy back with gateway to the smokies podcast with my guest POPs Hamilton from Maggie valley in the POPs place spectacular Barbecue and biscuit place are you doing box.

00:30:50.730 –> 00:30:52.680 Joseph McElroy: Oh yeah hit the unmute button.

00:31:13.980 –> 00:31:24.600 Joseph McElroy: bike down and you write it in the mountain ways of the smoky mountains i’ve heard it the smoky mountains has some of the best motorcycle trails in the USA is that true.

00:31:24.900 –> 00:31:41.790 Mike Ogletree: that’s very true and they’re all over and even you know just back roads to different towns, you know you can make so many different loops goes so many different ways and they’re all just spectacular you know the sites are amazing.

00:31:42.150 –> 00:31:42.360 Web.

00:31:44.250 –> 00:31:45.300 Joseph McElroy: Sites, the.

00:31:46.800 –> 00:31:53.310 Mike Ogletree: yeah you know between your waterfalls you know amazing homes, the rivers.

00:31:54.480 –> 00:32:14.160 Mike Ogletree: You know it’s just amazing here, I really love to hear I think it’s one of the best places to be had a little time, when I was a kid out in Colorado and you know living in a Canyon so it was you know being here, where you can do those kinds of things it’s just amazing I ride the.

00:32:15.390 –> 00:32:27.630 Mike Ogletree: Did the tail on the dragon a couple of times my youngest son and I took the bikes went over into Tennessee that way to do some research on my dad he was born over there and sweet water area.

00:32:30.210 –> 00:32:41.130 Mike Ogletree: The curves are amazing I mean just amazing now if you, if you like, to ride that don’t like curves, then you don’t need to ride in the mountains, but if you love Curry.

00:32:41.880 –> 00:32:43.770 Mike Ogletree: And you need come to the mountains in right.

00:32:45.930 –> 00:32:51.330 Joseph McElroy: that’s pretty good now, what are the what are some of the what are some of the safety issues when people riding in the people.

00:32:51.510 –> 00:33:03.870 Mike Ogletree: The people stop the one problem with with like the Taylor dragon because it’s so world famous you know you got people that come from all over the place to ride that.

00:33:04.890 –> 00:33:23.310 Mike Ogletree: And you have a lot of the people like myself that are cruising along you know we’re getting good speed, but we’re just kind of cruising along and then you got the younger guys and some of the older guys on the the Jacobites which I have a cat bye bye this sports bikes they.

00:33:24.450 –> 00:33:37.440 Mike Ogletree: They right so fast that you know they’re upon you, and you know you’re in a curve, and you know you hear uncommon but by the time you hear him their past you’re ready and so there’s some dangers there you know.

00:33:38.370 –> 00:33:48.900 Mike Ogletree: You have to definitely watch out for the wildlife, you know we have out there, you know all kinds of wild animals that you kind of have to look out for.

00:33:49.980 –> 00:33:54.720 Mike Ogletree: and other than that man it’s just you know, common sense kind of things you know.

00:33:55.140 –> 00:34:00.000 Joseph McElroy: Is there a lot of holes and you know rocks and tree limbs, and things like that.

00:34:00.000 –> 00:34:09.810 Mike Ogletree: not really the roads here really pretty good I mean you know every once in a while you run into something, but for the most part the relative pretty good.

00:34:10.470 –> 00:34:22.650 Mike Ogletree: that’s not kind of you know we don’t get the freeze that you all get up knowledge, so you know the roads they’ll get tutorial quite as much plus they don’t, let us quite as much as the Rose you know around major cities.

00:34:23.850 –> 00:34:30.300 Joseph McElroy: And when you’re when you’re stopping it places and maybe you stayed overnight, you have to worry too much about the very or vandalism.

00:34:30.990 –> 00:34:31.560 Ah.

00:34:32.760 –> 00:34:34.440 Mike Ogletree: I don’t you know because.

00:34:35.670 –> 00:34:42.120 Mike Ogletree: We are lock our bikes down we kind of keep them all together, and you know.

00:34:43.170 –> 00:34:46.080 Mike Ogletree: I try not to worry about those things because.

00:34:47.280 –> 00:34:49.500 Mike Ogletree: I want to enjoy my ride and.

00:34:50.700 –> 00:35:01.530 Mike Ogletree: You know, there are themes everywhere, we all know that you just have to be kind of cautious, you know you wouldn’t want to leave your bike in the dark corner somewhere, you know what I mean.

00:35:03.330 –> 00:35:14.160 Mike Ogletree: stuff like that, but other than that I don’t worry about that I stopped worrying about things quite a long time ago, put a smile on my face finally.

00:35:16.260 –> 00:35:21.450 Mike Ogletree: As evie evie worry about every little thing like that you can get out there and ride and really enjoys.

00:35:21.540 –> 00:35:25.170 Joseph McElroy: Well, a lot of places in the mountains now really motorcycle family are.

00:35:25.830 –> 00:35:28.770 Mike Ogletree: All very true very true everywhere.

00:35:30.630 –> 00:35:46.320 Mike Ogletree: That there’s so many motorcycles here during the season, I can have couldn’t fathom the shoe number but i’m in just thousands and thousands 10s of thousands of motorcycles.

00:35:46.680 –> 00:35:58.920 Mike Ogletree: You know the revenue that they bring to the western North Carolina is unbelievable I get people from Canada California Washington, you know Texas.

00:35:59.610 –> 00:36:19.380 Mike Ogletree: You know all brought to the a lot of people brought from abroad, you know kind of here, and right now, I think it was his first or second year we were open we had about 10 guys that staying at the hotel narrow Russians that came in rented bikes in road.

00:36:20.310 –> 00:36:26.550 Mike Ogletree: You know, of course, they didn’t ship their own bikes over here but they’re all like rock road and bake harley’s you know.

00:36:27.150 –> 00:36:31.800 Joseph McElroy: Well, the Maggie belly festival grounds, a yearly host a bunch of motorcycle and car rallies.

00:36:31.860 –> 00:36:46.230 Mike Ogletree: And car rides and they really do the Chamber has worked really hard to build these festivals up for the town, you know, actually, you know, being a restaurant owner i’m very thankful to the.

00:36:46.650 –> 00:36:57.480 Joseph McElroy: people listening should be a look up the Maggie valley festival grounds, they can also look up the haywood county festival grounds right they have big rallies out and in the gatlinburg area.

00:36:57.600 –> 00:36:59.520 Mike Ogletree: Gallagher cherokee yeah.

00:37:00.090 –> 00:37:00.900 Mike Ogletree: yeah yeah.

00:37:00.960 –> 00:37:09.030 Joseph McElroy: So I mean it’s a whole lifestyle out here in the mountains, to get the on road road life is really sort of an important aspect, and it always has been, even.

00:37:09.120 –> 00:37:10.140 Mike Ogletree: Yes, yes.

00:37:10.200 –> 00:37:24.450 Joseph McElroy: yeah it was a you know there’s a lot of these roadside motels you know the metal Arc is a classic roadside motel and as part of a road culture, so it still is a real culture, you know but it’s got a real outdoors he adventurous spirit.

00:37:24.660 –> 00:37:33.030 Mike Ogletree: Yes, yes, yes I enjoy coming down there and join our working with he doing the food last year.

00:37:34.260 –> 00:37:44.670 Mike Ogletree: On on the weekends, you know serving the bbq was that was that was really That was good for y’all that for me in the people love itself that was really good that time.

00:37:46.170 –> 00:37:52.560 Joseph McElroy: So I decided to take the dragon which I understand is considered the world’s premier.

00:37:52.890 –> 00:37:57.150 Joseph McElroy: yeah foremost motorcycling Spartan sports car touring road.

00:37:57.450 –> 00:37:59.550 Joseph McElroy: And what’s that about that’s only like.

00:37:59.640 –> 00:38:01.080 Joseph McElroy: 40 minutes from Maggie right.

00:38:01.140 –> 00:38:02.700 Mike Ogletree: yeah about 40 minutes.

00:38:02.730 –> 00:38:13.530 Joseph McElroy: is pretty there’s so many rides near Maggie and all yes within a haywood county itself, which is the gateway to the smokies yes, a lot of places So what are some of your other favorite ride.

00:38:13.830 –> 00:38:23.040 Mike Ogletree: Well, I, like the diamond back you that comprehend Lou you got to chair a hollow skyway I tell you story about that.

00:38:25.320 –> 00:38:33.270 Mike Ogletree: Six years ago but yeah I don’t think I have the restaurant know so maybe even seven years ago we were.

00:38:34.140 –> 00:38:43.380 Mike Ogletree: Planned our first ride for the season I long to little club called GT riders good time riders were social club.

00:38:43.830 –> 00:38:51.660 Mike Ogletree: You do fundraising and stuff and then put it all back out into the Community all the toys and such but anyway, we are.

00:38:52.410 –> 00:38:58.050 Mike Ogletree: Always my first ride at a year, I had, I had a bad tire, and so I had to order a tie or bad.

00:38:58.800 –> 00:39:16.890 Mike Ogletree: On there and finally got it on and the guy said man called me said hey we’re gonna run on Saturday and we’re going to do the chair a hollow skyline and I said okay that sounds like a good run well, we did about 300 miles that day.

00:39:17.190 –> 00:39:20.310 Mike Ogletree: Oh yeah and the knoxville them back.

00:39:21.660 –> 00:39:25.080 Mike Ogletree: And I slept for three days after the.

00:39:27.300 –> 00:39:27.690 Mike Ogletree: War.

00:39:30.540 –> 00:39:36.030 Joseph McElroy: yeah they can they have these segments so they’re like lots of segments, and you keep going on segments and segments.

00:39:36.270 –> 00:39:42.570 Joseph McElroy: Yes, easy to get out to take all this road through all the mountains and then end up on the interstate and then come back on the interstate pretty.

00:39:42.570 –> 00:39:43.500 Joseph McElroy: Yes, right.

00:39:43.530 –> 00:39:46.020 Joseph McElroy: Exactly the same finish off the day with a fast quick.

00:39:46.710 –> 00:39:56.250 Mike Ogletree: Fair right right, you can get on the fly what was like 730 and it’s getting ragged dark you know you’re still 200 miles away from home.

00:39:57.690 –> 00:40:04.350 Joseph McElroy: And then there’s a there’s a there’s a good ride he goes about past a bunch of the waterfalls like 678 waterfalls.

00:40:04.650 –> 00:40:05.220 Oh yeah.

00:40:06.270 –> 00:40:08.250 Mike Ogletree: I love that I go up to.

00:40:09.510 –> 00:40:20.580 Mike Ogletree: You know, to 70 cents go up to the parkway and then down into before whitewater falls and then slide and rock is beautiful place to stop.

00:40:21.840 –> 00:40:25.200 Joseph McElroy: And you can go up into a cat lucci valley and cbl can see.

00:40:26.370 –> 00:40:28.620 Joseph McElroy: See all that deep Park Area.

00:40:28.830 –> 00:40:31.590 Joseph McElroy: Yes, you now to get out and come back down through cherokee.

00:40:31.590 –> 00:40:32.370 Mike Ogletree: Right yes.

00:40:32.430 –> 00:40:33.090 Mike Ogletree: that’s right.

00:40:33.510 –> 00:40:35.610 Joseph McElroy: that’s all that’s all mountain real mountain.

00:40:36.000 –> 00:40:36.750 Joseph McElroy: Real now.

00:40:36.780 –> 00:40:37.890 Joseph McElroy: that’s real mountain.

00:40:39.990 –> 00:40:40.710 Joseph McElroy: Real mountain.

00:40:40.980 –> 00:40:41.370 yeah.

00:40:43.350 –> 00:40:53.160 Mike Ogletree: I I kind of take it easy drive riding you know I guess I lost all the young boy stuff because I didn’t start right until I was older.

00:40:53.490 –> 00:40:53.940 Mike Ogletree: I like.

00:40:54.510 –> 00:40:56.370 Mike Ogletree: I like these old bones so.

00:40:56.370 –> 00:41:02.100 Mike Ogletree: yeah my son’s got a K to 1200 and every day right.

00:41:03.150 –> 00:41:07.260 Mike Ogletree: he’ll go I said just go ahead i’ll catch you go.

00:41:11.070 –> 00:41:14.310 Joseph McElroy: What is that right, it goes out to hot springs that’s another good right.

00:41:14.370 –> 00:41:15.330 Mike Ogletree: yeah that’s the.

00:41:16.950 –> 00:41:19.980 Mike Ogletree: To do to do diamond back yeah.

00:41:21.960 –> 00:41:29.100 Joseph McElroy: yeah that’s a good one because it goes it goes over these really Curry mountain roads and then comes into hot springs ring go and jump in a.

00:41:29.370 –> 00:41:34.710 Joseph McElroy: Hot spring cross lines yeah yeah, then you go to asheville and get the actual experience and you come.

00:41:34.710 –> 00:41:34.980 Mike Ogletree: back.

00:41:35.610 –> 00:41:37.620 Joseph McElroy: to your place whenever you’re staying that’s a good one.

00:41:38.010 –> 00:41:39.240 Mike Ogletree: Yes, very good one.

00:41:39.570 –> 00:41:51.930 Joseph McElroy: people listening, you can go to various websites a smoky smokies adventure calm has information about motorcycle trails instead of the middle Arc motel calm has a list of great trails yeah um is.

00:41:53.580 –> 00:42:02.460 Joseph McElroy: Is is that there is there any other adventures with motorcycling that you recommend to do in the mountains here.

00:42:02.520 –> 00:42:13.620 Mike Ogletree: Well, I tell you if you if you come to Maggie and you’re a motorcyclist and you need to go through a wheel dale’s wheel through time right behind your motel here.

00:42:13.650 –> 00:42:23.550 Mike Ogletree: yeah they are, they have some of the most unique motorcycles in the world, one of a kind motorcycles and there’s so.

00:42:26.310 –> 00:42:37.380 Mike Ogletree: informative about everything, I mean every thing that they have on display motorcycle car everything runs there’s not.

00:42:37.380 –> 00:42:40.260 Joseph McElroy: One thing it’s a huge facility, I think it’s got.

00:42:40.650 –> 00:42:45.360 Joseph McElroy: I think when they came here they had $22 million worth of inventory I don’t know what it is now.

00:42:45.420 –> 00:42:47.190 Joseph McElroy: yeah yeah.

00:42:47.460 –> 00:42:52.440 Joseph McElroy: yeah and then they have shows during this during the warmer months, which are pretty cool.

00:42:52.710 –> 00:42:56.310 Joseph McElroy: Even towards like they have a certain that ride of death for a bunch I.

00:42:56.310 –> 00:42:58.740 Mike Ogletree: have my my buddy Charlie does that man.

00:42:58.740 –> 00:43:11.250 Mike Ogletree: it’s amazing it’s amazing i’m like no way you know I mean, I understand that you know as long as you keep that throttle up you’ll be all right, but that’s all right, I let them do that great to see, though.

00:43:11.580 –> 00:43:12.630 Mike Ogletree: yeah just.

00:43:13.530 –> 00:43:16.320 Joseph McElroy: Support pop has been well i’m glad to have you here.

00:43:17.340 –> 00:43:20.370 Joseph McElroy: This has been a wonderful conversation i’m it might come down and just a minute.

00:43:21.720 –> 00:43:22.020 Joseph McElroy: But.

00:43:22.200 –> 00:43:27.180 Joseph McElroy: it’s been a wonderful conversations there any any any website, you want to give for people to reach out to you.

00:43:27.600 –> 00:43:41.820 Mike Ogletree: um I actually have might get re put me up a new website, because I just closed down the old website, but he’s gonna re put up a new one, so soon as I do that then i’ll come back and visit with you.

00:43:42.930 –> 00:43:43.920 Mike Ogletree: With that out there.

00:43:44.130 –> 00:43:45.600 Joseph McElroy: You have a Facebook page or anything.

00:43:45.900 –> 00:43:48.900 Mike Ogletree: I do have Facebook on my Facebook, is a.

00:43:50.850 –> 00:43:53.310 Mike Ogletree: Valjean Hamilton at a.

00:43:54.450 –> 00:44:05.370 Mike Ogletree: lousy in Hamilton it’s just one of my name, and then we have one for the POPs place also a Facebook page, which was a pop space biscuits burgers and bbq.

00:44:05.670 –> 00:44:06.510 Joseph McElroy: There you go.

00:44:06.960 –> 00:44:08.790 Mike Ogletree: check it out thanks for reminding me.

00:44:09.870 –> 00:44:11.760 Joseph McElroy: Of course butts on the creek also has.

00:44:12.000 –> 00:44:14.100 Mike Ogletree: a bunch on the correct correct correct.

00:44:14.820 –> 00:44:15.030 Joseph McElroy: All right.

00:44:16.110 –> 00:44:16.920 Mike Ogletree: Good around.

00:44:17.010 –> 00:44:20.670 Joseph McElroy: Alright, so we’re heading to a break come back Mike ogletree.

00:44:22.380 –> 00:44:23.310 Joseph McElroy: To get down here will.

00:44:24.870 –> 00:44:25.650 Mike Ogletree: Do yeah.

00:44:26.760 –> 00:44:28.650 Mike Ogletree: All right, thank you, brother, I appreciate you.

00:44:28.650 –> 00:44:28.980 See.

00:44:34.620 –> 00:44:35.160 I see.

00:46:49.980 –> 00:47:09.990 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph mcilroy from from gateway to the smokies podcast i’m here with my guest Michael will treat it as a resident artists at the middle art motel Maggie Valley, is also the former drummer for the band simple minds and several other hit making machines, how you doing like.

00:47:10.290 –> 00:47:13.380 Mike Ogletree: Good good Thank you i’m doing very well thanks.

00:47:13.410 –> 00:47:17.070 Joseph McElroy: cool so three weeks ago we were here talking about the Scottish influence on.

00:47:17.790 –> 00:47:24.690 Joseph McElroy: Mountain culture, especially with reference music, but we also touched on the fact that there was a poet Robert Robert Burns.

00:47:25.080 –> 00:47:41.730 Joseph McElroy: That was very popular the Scottish Irish settlers that moved into these mountains and he is the subject of a yearly celebration in Scotland and in some places in the mountains, all the Scottish burns dinner, you want to tell us a little bit about that.

00:47:42.690 –> 00:47:47.790 Mike Ogletree: Yes, well thanks a lot for having me back on again, and you know, probably the.

00:47:49.830 –> 00:48:00.240 Mike Ogletree: Return performance, specifically because we’re talking about food we’re talking about Scotland and we’re talking about Scotland honorary.

00:48:01.590 –> 00:48:02.370 Mike Ogletree: portal lori.

00:48:02.880 –> 00:48:05.730 Mike Ogletree: Yes, first, he was yesterday.

00:48:06.210 –> 00:48:28.230 Mike Ogletree: So that that’s why i’m here, because one of the things that he did, one of the poems that he wrote was addressed to a haggis now this guy was a humorous poor he was a bit of every man poor because he will romantic poems he wrote political poems he wrote rebel poems where.

00:48:29.580 –> 00:48:35.160 Mike Ogletree: The origin of his interest in poems was through humor because that’s what we do, back in the day.

00:48:36.120 –> 00:48:46.620 Mike Ogletree: to entertain themselves, they will get around you know all the guys who get around the makeup poems and he became famous because he was really good at making.

00:48:47.400 –> 00:49:06.810 Mike Ogletree: funny stories and funny poems and one of those was a poem that he wrote called the address to a haggis now I hug is, if you don’t know what it is it’s a Scottish dish and it’s made a lamb principally and a few other entries and inner parts organs.

00:49:08.820 –> 00:49:27.870 Mike Ogletree: Of the sheep to it’s not it is one of those dishes a heist to be prepared properly and when it’s appropriate problem is delicious and Scottish people swear by it’s nutritious and fortifying qualities and.

00:49:28.920 –> 00:49:40.950 Mike Ogletree: You know, comparing it to other music, you would get at the time, you know people would talk about these exotic French and Spanish and all these other meals so.

00:49:41.760 –> 00:49:53.610 Mike Ogletree: Barnes being burned wrote a poem extolling the virtues of hygienists and her need Scotsman strong and you know zero.

00:49:54.450 –> 00:50:19.620 Mike Ogletree: Cost scanning the the value of the French argue what fica say these things here which will only be eaten by someone with skinny legs and who would be running across the battlefield all bloody and afraid so just one of these humanists poems that he would like I have been learning it.

00:50:20.460 –> 00:50:24.540 Joseph McElroy: Is I mean yesterday was was robert’s birthday.

00:50:24.750 –> 00:50:26.820 Mike Ogletree: yeah and, yes, the genuine.

00:50:27.300 –> 00:50:44.580 Joseph McElroy: Virtual celebration of it and let people know Maggie Maggie valley are gonna start doing a yearly festival at least tonight and maybe more about the Robert Burns suffer they were twins music and poetry and toasts.

00:50:45.990 –> 00:50:46.800 Joseph McElroy: and food.

00:50:47.640 –> 00:50:49.920 Joseph McElroy: and drink and drink wine and all sorts of.

00:50:49.920 –> 00:51:01.890 Joseph McElroy: whiskey, as long as maybe some Highland games, but we started last year, we did one this year we couldn’t, but we did a virtual one so Mike I would love for you to give the in dialect who that the toaster the highest and.

00:51:01.890 –> 00:51:03.540 Joseph McElroy: celebration Robert Burns day.

00:51:03.870 –> 00:51:19.500 Mike Ogletree: For his address to our hypothesis fear for your honest Swansea face great chieftain other Putin race I bring them all, yet your place pinch train or car.

00:51:20.100 –> 00:51:38.010 Mike Ogletree: We love you buddy worries, as long as much as the gluten train chat via you fill your hobbies like a distant hill yet pen what helped him in the middle, in time, I needed well through your pores that use distilled.

00:51:38.670 –> 00:51:54.240 Mike Ogletree: Like amber beat his knife she was thick layer of depth and cut you up we’re ready select train junior gushing and thrills but like on a day and then or what a glorious.

00:51:56.190 –> 00:51:57.480 Mike Ogletree: Why, he can.

00:52:00.030 –> 00:52:19.350 Mike Ogletree: perform the stretch in style do you tap the hindmost on the drive to all the swell swell Kate spill it out of band like drums the own good nine minutes late right even be sanker homes it’s not all his friends.

00:52:20.640 –> 00:52:39.060 Mike Ogletree: or all your that would store shoe on frequency would not cash spew with perfect scanner looks done wish needed school on foot view on sticker Donna good devil see em always fash as fabulous as without.

00:52:40.260 –> 00:52:49.680 Mike Ogletree: bisping do shank a good whiplash has neba net through bloody flood that a few to gosh oh one fit.

00:52:50.100 –> 00:53:05.910 Mike Ogletree: But my the rustic haggis fed that trembling us three zones his head clap in his wiling Eva bleed he’ll market whistle and legs and arms and hands whipsnade like top chefs so.

00:53:06.690 –> 00:53:16.350 Mike Ogletree: He posts from that man came get a clear understanding that are below Athena oh Scotland winds nice skin can wear them.

00:53:17.370 –> 00:53:24.030 Mike Ogletree: and love them, but if you wish, had great for player geha I guess.

00:53:27.210 –> 00:53:29.220 Joseph McElroy: All right, like that was fantastic.

00:53:30.930 –> 00:53:36.270 Joseph McElroy: You gave that you gave that gave me tremendous credit that was fabulous so.

00:53:37.470 –> 00:53:46.830 Joseph McElroy: Why don’t you give me a shout out to your Facebook page that you want people coming and see you do presentations and other things that you do.

00:53:47.730 –> 00:54:01.770 Mike Ogletree: Black Scotsman that’s it the main, the main thing that i’m doing really is Sunday afternoon fireside concepts which I do every Sunday at three o’clock and that screams to meadowlark motel.

00:54:01.950 –> 00:54:07.440 Mike Ogletree: yeah it means to my website, the black scotsman.com and YouTube and Facebook and all that started.

00:54:08.910 –> 00:54:13.290 Joseph McElroy: about six people out in the room, but it’s a real cozy experience.

00:54:13.560 –> 00:54:13.860 Joseph McElroy: Oh yeah.

00:54:14.790 –> 00:54:15.810 Mike Ogletree: it’s exclusive.

00:54:16.020 –> 00:54:17.550 Mike Ogletree: And you can stream online.

00:54:17.550 –> 00:54:20.820 Joseph McElroy: yeah before we people who stay could actually come because it’s very limited.

00:54:21.120 –> 00:54:30.480 Joseph McElroy: But you can see streaming online that the middle of the Facebook page for the middle Arc and on his own page at the full back Scotsman spelled with an x instead of SEC.

00:54:32.070 –> 00:54:35.010 Joseph McElroy: All right, or or whatever yeah yeah.

00:54:36.540 –> 00:54:39.420 Joseph McElroy: All right, what’s another thing things, so thank you Mike.

00:54:40.020 –> 00:54:42.390 Joseph McElroy: Thank you for the future few shout outs.

00:54:44.130 –> 00:54:47.640 Joseph McElroy: First of all, everybody i’m part of a network called talk radio.

00:54:48.720 –> 00:55:07.740 Joseph McElroy: Talk radio dot dot talk radio dot nyc and I want to mention that, after this show every Tuesday night is restart is rediscovering New York with Jeff Goodman and it’s a weekly show that showcases New York city’s extraordinary neighborhoods and I recommend it highly.

00:55:09.510 –> 00:55:23.100 Joseph McElroy: I want to mention that i’m also part of where traveler magazine, we have developed a section on where traveler which is was established in 1938 has been in motel hotel all over the world, is how as a digital.

00:55:23.490 –> 00:55:30.690 Joseph McElroy: And we’re actually creating the first non city based section called the great smoky mountains so you’re going to wear traveler calm.

00:55:30.960 –> 00:55:37.740 Joseph McElroy: In a great smoky mountains and see we’re developing a section dedicated to tourism and adventures in the smoky mountains.

00:55:38.730 –> 00:55:48.210 Joseph McElroy: I also have a website called smokies adventure smokies plural adventure calm, where we present hiking and.

00:55:48.720 –> 00:56:01.590 Joseph McElroy: outdoor activities and places to go and things to do very specific to the mountains of the of the smokies and it’s a great resource for just finding out what to do and where to go.

00:56:01.920 –> 00:56:06.390 Joseph McElroy: And of course you your smoky mountain adventure starts with where you stay.

00:56:06.840 –> 00:56:11.790 Joseph McElroy: And that’s the middle Arc motel calm, which is smack in the middle of the whole smoky mountain area.

00:56:12.060 –> 00:56:20.580 Joseph McElroy: And it’s very quick to get anywhere, including some of the more urban areas like asheville North Carolina it’s only a half hour away from there it’s close to the.

00:56:21.030 –> 00:56:34.230 Joseph McElroy: To the flight and people in New York, you can get around trip down to two Maggie to asheville Maggie valley area about for about 85 200 bucks right now and for the for the foreseeable future for like.

00:56:35.340 –> 00:56:49.530 Joseph McElroy: legion so it’s it’s quick it’s like a two hour flight or less so you can get down here, so I recommend it and don’t forget to look at this gateway in this product podcast and facebook.com gateway to the smokies podcast.

00:56:50.160 –> 00:56:54.780 Joseph McElroy: And thank you very much and i’ll see you next week to talk to you later bye.

Our special guest in this episode is Tim Surrett, a member of the award-winning and chart-topping bluegrass band Balsam Range, who talks about bluegrass music in the Smoky Mountains and the current music scene.

Tune in for this fun conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.



Joseph Mcelroy first introduces the Balsam Mountain Range and its wonders. Tim Surrett has a strong connection to the area, his band is even named after the area. He is a member of the award-winning Balsam Range. Growing up in that area, nature was the greatest recreation they had. He has fond memories of his father loading up the car and taking the long way as they rode to the Smokies where they would trout fish. Tim’s father was a musician, enjoyed singing country, and introduced him to music at a young age. He was also a fan of his cousin’s band and wanted to join. Tim bought a bass and ended up playing with some of the people that his dad played with. He was able to listen to Raymond Fairchild's play at his school as a child. As an adult, he was able to play with him at the historic Cherokee Festival.

Out of high school, at seventeen Tim began touring with a gospel quartet called the Happy Travelers. From there on he fell in love with gospel music and played it for a very long time. The music was popular everywhere. One time he even missed his prom to play in Detroit. The gospel audience embraced all styles, country gospel, bluegrass gospel, and more. What was most important was the message and that the music was good. Tim tells us about his knowledge and love of the Cherokee Gospel.

Tim was able to sing for the Kingsmen with Eldridge fox and Ray Reese. His first time singing at the Grand Ole Opry was with the Kingsmen. People in Canada would drive six to eight hours to hear these performances. He played in Ashford at a festival called Bell Shares where they had a large audience of farmers and hipsters.

In 1991 Tim and his friend Mickey Gamble formed a new recording company called The Mountain Home Music Company. There’s so much bluegrass and gospel in the area but he’s begging to see more artists. One of the artists that stands out to him is Bryan Sutton. Tim met him while he was still a high school student. Tim thinks bluegrass feels the most authentic to him. The synth era of the 80s drove him closer to bluegrass, he has a greater emotional connection to it. Tim spoke of his experience with Balsam Range. When they formed the band in Canton they hadn’t known each other for long. They had so much fun on the two records that they worked on that they decided to meet up and play together a few times. After getting together in 2007, Buddy Melton asked them if they wanted to join him for a show he was asked to play at. They were a hit and they decided to play together more.

When they named themselves Balsam Range they believed that they would only be a local group. At first, they were going to call themselves the Great Balsam Range but Great sounded too pretentious. All of the members are singers so there is not a single lead singer. They have a lot of variety in their arrangements. Their latest album is AEONIC. There is a new record in the works and their newest single is Rivers, Rains, Runaway Trains. Unfortunately, Tim predicts that there will not be many live shows and things will be similar to the rest of 2020. Since last march, he has only played three shows. Right now they are using this time to focus on their music. Every December they host their own festival, the Balsam Range Art and Music Festival. It is usually hosed in the Stuart Auditorium which is an indoor facility. Usually, their guest will travel from across the country and internationally but in these times that won't work out. Tim Surrett currently has a radio show on WPTL Radio called Papertown Roots Radio. It airs every Tuesday and Thursday at 7 pm EST and can be found on Facebook as well.

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00:00:27.510 –> 00:00:32.610 Joseph McElroy: Hello. Thanks for joining us on this week’s episode of gateway to the Smokies podcast.

00:00:33.240 –> 00:00:40.620 Joseph McElroy: This podcast is about America’s most visited National Park, the Great Smoky Mountains National Park, and the surrounding towns.

00:00:41.070 –> 00:00:49.260 Joseph McElroy: This area is filled with ancient natural beauty deep storied history and rich mountain cultures that we will explore with weekly episodes.

00:00:49.890 –> 00:01:01.320 Joseph McElroy: I am Joseph Franklyn McElroy man of the world, but also with deep roots in these mountains. My family is living the great smokies for over 200 years my business is in travel but my heart is in culture.

00:01:02.280 –> 00:01:12.510 Joseph McElroy: Today we have, we’re going to be talking about bluegrass and gospel. My guest today is a strong connection to the Smoky Mountains is known to everyone who loves, loves bluegrass and gospel music

00:01:13.050 –> 00:01:20.430 Joseph McElroy: And hang on to the end and we will give you some tips and resources to continue actually your explorations of the Smokies

00:01:21.630 –> 00:01:28.770 Joseph McElroy: Now, first let me give you a little hint on who our guest is by telling you about the map Boston mountain section of the Great Smoky Mountains National Park.

00:01:30.300 –> 00:01:44.010 Joseph McElroy: It’s in it’s in North Carolina. And it’s one of it is the. It’s one of the parks highest elevation areas and it’s accessible by car, and it also has great I think camping and picnicking and spectacular views.

00:01:45.540 –> 00:02:01.470 Joseph McElroy: It has only been as it has paved access by taking a road called the Blue Ridge Parkway Boston mountain road. And there’s also an exciting way down, called the high end toga Ridge Road, which is a one lane dirt road going one way

00:02:01.950 –> 00:02:04.770 Joseph McElroy: With the love us long it are stupendous

00:02:06.060 –> 00:02:15.450 Joseph McElroy: Especially in the fall when you get all those fall colors and when you will eventually end up being eventually use that to get the big code road, I want to bring you right into Cherokee

00:02:16.110 –> 00:02:30.060 Joseph McElroy: Now, what are the most unusual unusual thing things you’ll find in North Carolina’s spoken man parks and probably a lot of places that you’ll find a Masonic marker mute monument in the in the in the along that road.

00:02:31.140 –> 00:02:44.310 Joseph McElroy: And it’s basically where it meets the boss, a mountain section of the Great Smoky Mountains park in the boss of mountain road and it’s a it’s a it’s an unusual Mark, Mark. Mark monument that marks the spot where the world’s

00:02:44.850 –> 00:02:51.090 Joseph McElroy: largest and oldest fraternal organization and Masons have their summer assembly since 1935

00:02:53.010 –> 00:03:04.470 Joseph McElroy: And and i mean i you know just you find these things in the mountains, all the time. Yeah, like late you Alaska is the is the center of the world Methodist Council.

00:03:04.770 –> 00:03:12.150 Joseph McElroy: You know people like to come to the mountains and establish long traditions. Another big thing, I think, in the balsa mountain areas. The is that it has

00:03:12.570 –> 00:03:26.430 Joseph McElroy: It has a really fantastic picnic area historic beginning Gary, it’s actually the most drastic Park picnic area and it also has the highest elevation in the, in the, all of the park well over 5000 feet.

00:03:26.790 –> 00:03:45.090 Joseph McElroy: Of elevation. It has a bunch of picking sites BEHALF OF THEM AND WHICH IS REALLY INTERESTED IN HALF OF THEM ARE THESE handmade huge stone slabs with split logs benches and they’re one of a kind tables that were made by the stonemasons in the civilian converts conservative

00:03:45.120 –> 00:03:46.170 Hope Surrett: Conservation Corps.

00:03:46.380 –> 00:03:52.350 Joseph McElroy: In the 30s and a really standing testament to craftsmanship and of course I can’t forget to mention

00:03:53.340 –> 00:04:01.860 Joseph McElroy: Cold Mountain is in the balsam range. I don’t know if you remember that book that best selling book in the movie with Nicole Kidman about a civil war veteran and the sweetheart. The left behind.

00:04:02.520 –> 00:04:07.980 Joseph McElroy: But it has some great fight hiking trails and of course it’s a great story to take back and tell people that you went to go map.

00:04:10.110 –> 00:04:28.230 Joseph McElroy: Now I’m telling you this because my guest has a song strong connection to bounce the ball right he’s 10, sir. He’s the is one of today’s top artists making real root music and he’s a member of the legendary award winning Best selling bluegrass band balsam range.

00:04:29.460 –> 00:04:37.800 Joseph McElroy: And he has a decades long career in bluegrass gospel music, including alongside it stint with the Kingsman Hello, Tim, how are you today.

00:04:38.100 –> 00:04:41.490 Hope Surrett: I’m doing good. Joseph. Thank you for having me on, man. This is really cool.

00:04:42.000 –> 00:04:48.450 Joseph McElroy: Yeah, it’s it’s really cool having you here. I was so excited. I had to call people up and say, I have to insert here balsam range.

00:04:51.660 –> 00:04:52.200 Hope Surrett: Come on.

00:04:52.350 –> 00:04:54.870 Joseph McElroy: I was starstruck man. I was like, oh my god.

00:04:56.040 –> 00:05:00.540 Joseph McElroy: Yeah. So no, I’ve been hearing about you. For a long time now, people will never sung about

00:05:00.540 –> 00:05:07.590 Joseph McElroy: Music in the mountains. They go, you know, balsam range now so you become a real name, and I mean you’re you’re become legendary it’s

00:05:07.590 –> 00:05:08.850 Hope Surrett: A w to say

00:05:09.090 –> 00:05:19.680 Joseph McElroy: Yeah. So you were, you were actually born and raised in Canton, which is right near the balsam range. Yeah, back in the middle of the Smoky Mountains. What are you fond memories of the Smoky Mountains going up there.

00:05:20.100 –> 00:05:28.680 Hope Surrett: Well just just growing up here, and I’m very fortunate. My dad was a great lover of the outdoors and

00:05:29.790 –> 00:05:36.660 Hope Surrett: He was a railroad man here in the in the Smoky Mountains for the for the Norfolk Southern railroad, but he you know

00:05:37.590 –> 00:05:52.410 Hope Surrett: Back when I was growing up the outdoors was our are, you know, it was all recreation. We had really, you know, when you grow up in the mountains here. You might remember you got you might get to TV channels, depending on which way the winds blowing prior to cable, you know,

00:05:54.540 –> 00:06:02.820 Hope Surrett: So all Recreation was based on outdoors. My dad left to hunt and fish and and then just drive around, you know that I’m still in the days of the

00:06:03.510 –> 00:06:18.660 Hope Surrett: The Sunday drive or whatever. And a lot of times we load up in the car or whatever and drop the parkway or, or, you know, go visit relatives and my dad was a great it drives my wife nuts. Now, because now I’m the same way, but he was the kind of guys. So let’s take the long way.

00:06:18.750 –> 00:06:20.460 Joseph McElroy: The same. Very good. I remember that.

00:06:21.420 –> 00:06:28.440 Hope Surrett: And he also as I was growing up, my dad always kept a couple of Tennessee walking horses, not for showing but for trail riding.

00:06:28.710 –> 00:06:39.930 Hope Surrett: Right. So we spent a lot of summer times riding back into the Smokies, you know, places that would ride to Clemens dome, which is the highest point east of the Mississippi and

00:06:40.620 –> 00:06:45.840 Hope Surrett: Or oil, one of the highest points. It’s the second highest I guess next amount Mitchell, but we would ride.

00:06:46.620 –> 00:07:02.670 Hope Surrett: 3040 miles back into the Smoky Mountains nice department camp and trout fish. And so I grew up. And also, um, you know, 35 minutes from Cherokee and as a child, the history of the of the Cherokee people fascinated me and and does, to this day, so

00:07:03.870 –> 00:07:09.090 Hope Surrett: I, you know, I’ve been involved in that all my life. And it’s just, it’s amazing place to grow up.

00:07:09.630 –> 00:07:14.490 Joseph McElroy: We do I look I was looking at me, or about the same age. So you’re probably going to piss. Good.

00:07:15.000 –> 00:07:18.660 Joseph McElroy: Yeah, same time, I was going to Tesco. I graduated in 80 so

00:07:18.690 –> 00:07:19.920 Hope Surrett: Well, that’s all.

00:07:21.420 –> 00:07:30.450 Joseph McElroy: People might not know but is considered the most, the biggest rivalry and high school football in the nation. A few years back. So MAJOR MAGAZINE said was

00:07:30.540 –> 00:07:41.880 Hope Surrett: Oh yeah yes came and covered the game. It’s crazy to me in Canton, we have about 4500 people and for the Pisco testicle. The game will have 12,000 people out of here. I don’t even know.

00:07:43.710 –> 00:07:45.990 Joseph McElroy: It was a thing to do on Friday nights I think

00:07:46.680 –> 00:07:47.070 Joseph McElroy: Right.

00:07:47.100 –> 00:07:48.570 Hope Surrett: Yeah, it is absolutely

00:07:48.600 –> 00:07:54.390 Joseph McElroy: The and you know i i was we were Tennessee walkers to sound like you were describing my childhood just

00:07:55.230 –> 00:07:56.070 Joseph McElroy: Take it on the long

00:07:56.580 –> 00:08:05.430 Joseph McElroy: long rows and you know and and we were doing. We had our own had our own Tennessee walks because my dad. He was a horse trader so

00:08:05.790 –> 00:08:20.100 Joseph McElroy: I got one. I got one horse that was a plow horse combination plow horse and Tennessee Walker Walker. So it was a little bit rough and then the other one, they gave to me because I was the only a big enough to handle that every time he got on his foot kicking the butt. Oh, yeah.

00:08:21.240 –> 00:08:32.970 Hope Surrett: My dad was a big man about 320 he weighed and he had a big old horse was about 16 hands tall it to shoulder. It was a monster and but it was the sweetest thing. And I remember as a kid.

00:08:35.610 –> 00:08:43.920 Hope Surrett: I would come home from school and take a cinder block and prop it up long ways, so I can stand up on in that horse would walk up. Let me get on it. And so I’d ride around that.

00:08:45.480 –> 00:08:51.240 Joseph McElroy: Well yeah, I understand your dad was a big influence on you on your on your music. Pretty, pretty early. Right.

00:08:51.480 –> 00:08:53.280 Hope Surrett: Yes, absolutely. Dad was a

00:08:54.630 –> 00:09:06.960 Hope Surrett: Was an excellent singer. He played guitar a bit, and he was what I would call a jokingly referred to as an animal singer you know it was a Friday night was the moose lodge Saturday night was Elks Lodge.

00:09:09.330 –> 00:09:10.680 Hope Surrett: Lions Club, you know,

00:09:11.880 –> 00:09:12.030 Hope Surrett: And

00:09:13.260 –> 00:09:15.480 Hope Surrett: All the local little places. He was fine.

00:09:16.650 –> 00:09:23.880 Hope Surrett: He sang a lot of bluegrass he loved bluegrass but he was a better country singer in the, you know, the old time like Marty Robbins right price.

00:09:24.960 –> 00:09:26.310 Hope Surrett: Kind of country singer.

00:09:26.700 –> 00:09:27.600 Hope Surrett: So, and he would

00:09:27.660 –> 00:09:42.510 Hope Surrett: End, and I’m very grateful he let me tag along to the practices which I was enthralled with as just a small kid all the instruments blew my mind whether it was a bluegrass band or a country by end with steel guitars and whatnot, you know,

00:09:43.920 –> 00:09:49.710 Hope Surrett: So there was a great element of music in my life for my earliest memories so

00:09:50.220 –> 00:09:52.620 Joseph McElroy: Southern rock to you did a little bit of electric based in

00:09:52.980 –> 00:09:53.400 Hope Surrett: Oh, yeah.

00:09:53.430 –> 00:09:53.730 Joseph McElroy: Yeah.

00:09:54.570 –> 00:10:10.440 Hope Surrett: I got my when I was 14 my dad was trying to coax me into doing well in school guess about ninth grade and he promised me if I would do well and first semester, he’d buy me any guitar. I wanted for Christmas and I had my own Les Paul, I was going to be Led Zeppelin, you know, and

00:10:12.540 –> 00:10:21.090 Hope Surrett: But my cousin, my cousin, my cousin had he’s three years older than me. He was a senior high school and he had a high school, kind of a garage.

00:10:21.510 –> 00:10:29.430 Hope Surrett: Slash basement rock band that I just worship them, you know, and I knew their bass player was leaving, and my cousin told me if I could get a bass.

00:10:29.850 –> 00:10:39.420 Hope Surrett: I was in, you know, cuz it was the one finger base. Back then it was a you know ZZ Top bad but and I you had a base in three minutes. You are in a band, you know,

00:10:41.430 –> 00:10:51.480 Hope Surrett: So I got the base instead of the Les Paul and started playing with everybody that my dad had played with. And I was so enamored with playing that I would play

00:10:52.170 –> 00:11:05.580 Hope Surrett: With dad’s old country guys one night a week, I would play rock and roll somewhere in Asheville, North Carolina just down the road here on, you know, Friday or Saturday and and and probably in a church on Sunday with some other folks so

00:11:06.300 –> 00:11:06.780 Asked me

00:11:10.800 –> 00:11:11.310 Hope Surrett: Yeah, and then

00:11:12.090 –> 00:11:21.060 Hope Surrett: Some of it was funny cuz I stepped right in my dad kind of retired out of it. And I sort of stepped right into his a lot, especially a couple of his luck, the old country band.

00:11:21.540 –> 00:11:31.020 Hope Surrett: And some of the Bluegrass guys here in Canton which there are a lot of and and I didn’t even know the names of the songs, but I’d heard him play him so much. I just stepped in started playing so

00:11:32.640 –> 00:11:35.070 Joseph McElroy: Did you ever play Maggie that old bands all

00:11:35.400 –> 00:11:38.550 Hope Surrett: The talking about the house.

00:11:38.970 –> 00:11:40.860 Joseph McElroy: Yeah, very rarely play house. Yeah.

00:11:42.840 –> 00:11:51.540 Hope Surrett: Well you know I was also want to clog in team. That’s the first time I made it to the Grand Ole Opry. I mean, I would. When I was a kid square dancing clogging was a huge deal.

00:11:52.080 –> 00:11:59.370 Hope Surrett: And i mean i mean you’re not, I would League baseball practice or football practice and still in uniform and go to Target practice.

00:12:00.390 –> 00:12:00.720 Joseph McElroy: We know

00:12:01.440 –> 00:12:05.940 Hope Surrett: The valley Playhouse funny. I tell people all the time. That was our skating rink.

00:12:07.560 –> 00:12:09.210 Hope Surrett: You wanted to hold hands with a pretty girl.

00:12:12.180 –> 00:12:12.630 Joseph McElroy: I learned

00:12:13.650 –> 00:12:20.220 Joseph McElroy: I learned about dance. And I remember when I came back to the cities. Yeah, I’d get up and dance and people look like like I was insane.

00:12:21.480 –> 00:12:27.990 Hope Surrett: I actually, I actually called at a bar mitzvah in San Francisco wants and they thought out in invented some kind of new staff.

00:12:30.630 –> 00:12:33.090 Joseph McElroy: Well, yeah, no, that’s the that’s

00:12:34.650 –> 00:12:39.000 Joseph McElroy: The thing. It’s like the one place for white men in America will get up and dance by themselves.

00:12:41.430 –> 00:12:43.650 Hope Surrett: Yeah, let’s get up and do it too.

00:12:46.980 –> 00:12:51.420 Joseph McElroy: So that’s cool. Did you ever. Did you ever get to beat your pay play with Raymond Raymond

00:12:52.590 –> 00:12:53.850 Hope Surrett: Raymond Fairchild, sure.

00:12:55.140 –> 00:13:01.680 Hope Surrett: I remember Raymond, the first time come into my elementary school, which was Pennsylvania Avenue Elementary School here in Canton and

00:13:02.850 –> 00:13:06.360 Hope Surrett: Raymond would come with his band and play for the kids, you know, it’s really cool.

00:13:06.960 –> 00:13:20.100 Hope Surrett: And then later years, I met Raymond when I started playing bluegrass we played the same festivals like the big Cherokee festival and and all over the country. We played with Raymond Fairchild, and usually Raymond in the crow brothers Josh and willing crow cool, though.

00:13:21.150 –> 00:13:25.710 Joseph McElroy: He just died recently. I remember you remember the grown up with him in the mountains and it was

00:13:25.710 –> 00:13:26.340 Hope Surrett: All he was a

00:13:26.370 –> 00:13:27.600 Hope Surrett: He was a character, man. He

00:13:27.600 –> 00:13:38.940 Hope Surrett: Was he was a lot of things. He was a storyteller and moonshine, or I mean just all kind of stuff and he had hit a million selling single with a with a banjo instrumental

00:13:39.240 –> 00:13:39.750 Joseph McElroy: Yeah, I can.

00:13:39.900 –> 00:13:42.450 Hope Surrett: fix these all yet go break. It’s all over the place. Yeah.

00:13:42.540 –> 00:13:51.060 Joseph McElroy: Yeah, well. Cool. We got to take a break and when we come back we’ll talk more about the Blue Grass and gospel. All right.

00:13:51.510 –> 00:13:52.770 Joseph McElroy: Yes, sir. Yeah.

00:16:07.290 –> 00:16:10.920 Joseph McElroy: Hey this is Joseph backward back with the gateway to the Smokies

00:16:12.180 –> 00:16:19.860 Joseph McElroy: Pop. Pop it were the Smokies podcast. Now I’ve just been told by people that might not be playing on Facebook right now and if people were looking for it.

00:16:21.930 –> 00:16:22.380 Joseph McElroy: Yeah.

00:16:23.730 –> 00:16:31.440 Joseph McElroy: Tim, you might want to page post on your Facebook pages to talk radio dot NYC slash live, you know, look.

00:16:32.070 –> 00:16:32.730 Hope Surrett: I can do that.

00:16:33.000 –> 00:16:33.450 Yeah.

00:16:35.190 –> 00:16:38.190 Joseph McElroy: Anyway, let’s let’s do that right quick. So

00:16:39.630 –> 00:16:42.270 People can get to. Because there’s people that want to hear it.

00:16:44.010 –> 00:16:51.120 Joseph McElroy: And if the engineer out there can listen and maybe make sure it’s a streaming after our Facebook our Facebook page.

00:16:51.600 –> 00:16:51.990 Hope Surrett: Oh, you gotta

00:16:53.910 –> 00:16:54.660 Hope Surrett: You gotta have you

00:16:55.020 –> 00:16:56.310 Joseph McElroy: Gotta have that. So I

00:16:58.740 –> 00:17:02.490 Joseph McElroy: Don’t know why it’s not there, but sorry about that, folks.

00:17:03.660 –> 00:17:04.560 Joseph McElroy: So,

00:17:06.270 –> 00:17:10.350 Joseph McElroy: Anyway, let’s continue here and hopefully they’ll fix that for people

00:17:15.210 –> 00:17:23.160 Joseph McElroy: Where, where we’ve said we’re talking about talking about your playing music and place and he started professionally tour and when you were very young or cheap.

00:17:24.480 –> 00:17:28.230 Joseph McElroy: And so, you know, we’re right what right out of high school, right.

00:17:28.560 –> 00:17:39.090 Hope Surrett: Yeah, I started traveling with a group out of Canton here, a local gospel group. Well, I say local I was a senior in high school at Pisco 17 and

00:17:39.660 –> 00:17:53.880 Hope Surrett: This group from Canton here called the happy travelers. They were a gospel quartet, which I knew nothing about gospel quartets except grown up here, you got a heavy dose of the inspirations from Bryson city and the Kingsman from Asheville

00:17:55.170 –> 00:18:07.740 Hope Surrett: Other than that I had no idea, but these guys wanted me to play and travel, which at 17. I can’t believe they had a big silver Eagle bus, you know, and we went out the first weekend and and they hired me and

00:18:09.390 –> 00:18:18.330 Hope Surrett: Yeah. And that was it, and I fell in love with the gospel music that was going on at that time and and stayed in it a long, long time, you know,

00:18:18.690 –> 00:18:29.520 Joseph McElroy: You know, I remember. Around that time, you know, the there was sort of a religious revival going on with the young people quite a bit because I got, I was in that too. I was preaching at the Methodist Church and everything. So, you know, I think.

00:18:30.210 –> 00:18:34.410 Joseph McElroy: You know, you know, that was a big time for getting a little bit in the gospel.

00:18:34.770 –> 00:18:40.350 Joseph McElroy: Sure, yeah. So, um, what what towns were the big in the circuit back those days.

00:18:40.530 –> 00:18:41.970 Hope Surrett: Oh, gosh. Well, you know,

00:18:43.620 –> 00:18:57.960 Hope Surrett: The, the Bible. Well, really well. I’ll tell you this, you know, it was. It’s hard to say it was it was popular all over the especially the eastern part of the United States. I missed my senior prom at HP is good because we were playing in Detroit, Michigan that night.

00:18:57.990 –> 00:18:58.740 Joseph McElroy: Oh, wow.

00:18:58.860 –> 00:19:10.440 Hope Surrett: And the group. I was in those. Those guys were kind of a, I will say be level group. They were kind of an opening act for the major gospel groups of the day, which you know Kingsman inspirations.

00:19:11.130 –> 00:19:27.060 Hope Surrett: You know cathedrals, all these great gospel groups. So I went from straight from hospital chorus and band to, you know, plan in Detroit. That night as part of the opening act on those concerts and just kind of kept going up through there because I love the music, you know,

00:19:27.450 –> 00:19:43.320 Joseph McElroy: Cool. So, you know, no. I read a little bit about gospel music and you know that there seems like there was a time that remains the gospel sort of mainstream mainstream Gospel is turning tend to be a little bit like Quartet.

00:19:43.740 –> 00:19:44.310 Joseph McElroy: Right, yeah.

00:19:44.580 –> 00:19:48.990 Joseph McElroy: And then you then mountain gas gospel was a bit different. Right.

00:19:49.680 –> 00:19:59.280 Hope Surrett: Yeah. And absolutely, there was the mail quartet thing which has been popular since the 1940s with groups like the statesman quartet. These are groups that would come all over the country.

00:19:59.970 –> 00:20:13.320 Hope Surrett: Well, even the Ryman auditorium one weekend a month one Saturday night, a month was an all night gospel singer, you know, the Romans Grand Ole Opry years and there were, you know, there was there was the Quartet style with the statesman, the black wood brothers.

00:20:14.550 –> 00:20:23.850 Hope Surrett: And then there was the family group kind of thing with the happy good moans the Hanson, some of these people, you’d say on the gospel singing Jubilee on Sunday morning. Right. It’s

00:20:24.390 –> 00:20:37.740 Hope Surrett: hugely popular syndicated show and and then you had Bluegrass gospel. And the cool thing I noticed that a young age, because I grew up on the Bluegrass more so than the Quartet style was that

00:20:38.820 –> 00:20:43.200 Hope Surrett: The gospel audience embraced both or all three kinds really

00:20:43.410 –> 00:20:53.910 Hope Surrett: We would go play I’m ever going to play many gospel concert and they would be the group. I was playing for AND THEY WOULD THERE WOULD BE THE Hanson’s a family style country gospel group and then there would be

00:20:54.630 –> 00:20:59.880 Hope Surrett: My friends, the primitive quartet from over here in Canada, North Carolina, which is a Bluegrass gospel group.

00:21:00.270 –> 00:21:00.780 Joseph McElroy: Right and

00:21:01.050 –> 00:21:06.690 Hope Surrett: The audience just, you know, it was the message for them. And if the music was good. They. It was all good, you know,

00:21:07.710 –> 00:21:13.890 Joseph McElroy: Wow, that’s, I mean I guess that was exciting time to be involved in something of the sort of different than what everybody’s used to. Right. Yeah.

00:21:13.950 –> 00:21:14.820 Hope Surrett: Yeah, absolutely.

00:21:15.060 –> 00:21:16.470 Joseph McElroy: Cool. Um,

00:21:17.520 –> 00:21:24.750 Joseph McElroy: I was reading again and it caught my eye. There was a form of gospel and you were talking about the Cherokee is called share the gospel. What the heck is that

00:21:25.260 –> 00:21:28.920 Hope Surrett: Well, I’m not an expert at it, but I would say that’s where you know

00:21:31.770 –> 00:21:45.960 Hope Surrett: I’m certainly no lettered scholar in it, but I know you know some of the first things that the Cherokees translated into their written language wants to call you wrote, you know, came up with that language is 86 character celebrate that he did

00:21:47.040 –> 00:21:48.780 Hope Surrett: Before the removal of the Cherokees

00:21:50.400 –> 00:21:59.700 Hope Surrett: Some of the first things you know they had their own newspaper. They had their own printing press in the Cherokee capitals, they put put out their own newspaper called the Cherokee Phoenix.

00:22:02.130 –> 00:22:03.750 Hope Surrett: And they, they immediately started

00:22:05.100 –> 00:22:18.660 Hope Surrett: translating the hymn books and the Bible into the Cherokee language. And to this day, you can still go here, Cherokee family gospel groups that will sing a song in English like amazing grace and then they’ll sing a verse or two in the chair Keeling which

00:22:18.720 –> 00:22:21.930 Joseph McElroy: I don’t know. I must be really cool. I never, I never

00:22:23.520 –> 00:22:23.850 Joseph McElroy: Know, but

00:22:24.600 –> 00:22:36.450 Hope Surrett: Yeah, I’ve played a lot in Turkey, over the years, they love bluegrass and gospel both and and you’ll forever if somebody will get up and sing Amazing Grace and then do it in the Cherokee language, which is really, really cool.

00:22:37.320 –> 00:22:38.370 Joseph McElroy: So you spent

00:22:39.420 –> 00:22:51.570 Joseph McElroy: About 15 years total with the kings. When I guess there were two stints right and it’s like one of the great gospel quartets out there and you did that really pretty young. I mean at 23 landed on this major back then it

00:22:52.800 –> 00:22:55.410 Joseph McElroy: Was a that was not. Um, so what are some of the members, you have

00:22:55.680 –> 00:22:57.120 Hope Surrett: Gone. Wow, there’s too many

00:22:57.210 –> 00:23:01.080 Hope Surrett: Too many to name but I just remember when I joined the king’s men they hired me

00:23:02.370 –> 00:23:09.630 Hope Surrett: I’ve been working in the studio as a studio musician, which is a whole different facet of my musical career and a great big part of it.

00:23:10.740 –> 00:23:25.710 Hope Surrett: And I became kind of a house bass player as a big studio in Nashville. And it was predominantly gospel records. So there’s a gentleman named Eldridge fox that owned the Kingsman and he was a very prolific producer in the gospel world. So I played on tons of albums for him.

00:23:26.760 –> 00:23:28.650 Hope Surrett: recording sessions and

00:23:30.090 –> 00:23:42.810 Hope Surrett: I was playing bass, but I still love to travel and all that kind of stuff. So at one point in the late 80s, he had two guys leaving the king’s men at once. It’s a hard life. We were gone. Average 250 days a year. Easy.

00:23:44.550 –> 00:23:54.270 Hope Surrett: And he had his bass player and his baritone singer were leaving at the same time, and he knew I could do both, or at least hold down both the league could get somebody to fill one or the other.

00:23:54.660 –> 00:23:59.610 Hope Surrett: So they hired me. And you know, I remember the first not out was it a big concert in Atlanta.

00:24:00.690 –> 00:24:06.810 Hope Surrett: And they called me up to seeing and scared me to death because I was a bass player by trade, I could hear the harmony and all that.

00:24:07.320 –> 00:24:15.030 Hope Surrett: But I just remember standing there between three water now Gospel Music Hall of Famers you know there was a Eldridge Fox.

00:24:15.660 –> 00:24:23.220 Hope Surrett: Jim Hamill, who’s the lead singer and re release the basing are all Hall of Famers re, re still has the king’s men to this day.

00:24:24.090 –> 00:24:33.840 Hope Surrett: He’s the only surviving one of that group that I’m talking about. And just, I remember stepping up between those guys and just could just could not believe it.

00:24:34.410 –> 00:24:44.460 Hope Surrett: And, you know, it was carried me all over the United States and Canada, and my, you know, my first time to seeing on the Grand Ole Opry was with the Kingsman

00:24:44.790 –> 00:24:47.730 Hope Surrett: And and and you know just all kinds of stuff all over

00:24:48.360 –> 00:25:00.900 Hope Surrett: Then you found out because every year we would take the month of February and start in Texas or somewhere and play Phoenix and Albuquerque and up Los Angeles and all of the West Coast and

00:25:02.040 –> 00:25:06.210 Hope Surrett: Oregon and Washington. And then up into British Columbia, Alberta.

00:25:07.350 –> 00:25:14.700 Hope Surrett: The people in Canada would drive six or eight hours to come here. You hear you play at one of these big concerts, because that’s all I got the whole year.

00:25:15.210 –> 00:25:18.600 Hope Surrett: Wow. Oh, it was, it was amazing to me. It was, I wouldn’t call it

00:25:19.770 –> 00:25:25.890 Hope Surrett: A counterculture but it was definitely a whole different world that I didn’t know even existed, and it was, you know, just

00:25:26.940 –> 00:25:29.550 Hope Surrett: Doing it at that level for that long was a

00:25:30.630 –> 00:25:31.890 Hope Surrett: Was a great blessing for me.

00:25:32.370 –> 00:25:41.370 Joseph McElroy: Well, I came out of Nashville. And you came at a camp. And there’s some good things going on in there is a national always been a great area for gospel music in the center of it.

00:25:42.120 –> 00:25:50.130 Hope Surrett: It’s been a big part of it going back even to, you know, prior to my days there was no fail in Asheville named Riley that brought

00:25:50.550 –> 00:26:01.050 Hope Surrett: Those great, you know, the big gospel x to the old Nashville city auditorium, the statesman, the black was the Goodman’s all those kinds of people on down through the years, and

00:26:02.520 –> 00:26:07.380 Hope Surrett: I don’t know if it’s the hotbed is it was in those days when I was first getting into it.

00:26:08.610 –> 00:26:14.940 Hope Surrett: Because honestly bluegrass you can do better with Bluegrass style music here than about anything else. Yeah.

00:26:15.480 –> 00:26:18.390 Joseph McElroy: Became popular with the kids. I think the hipsters

00:26:19.080 –> 00:26:20.130 Hope Surrett: Yeah yeah yeah

00:26:20.940 –> 00:26:23.700 Hope Surrett: What we ran a school called a trust the ferry guns.

00:26:25.440 –> 00:26:32.100 Joseph McElroy: They were we gotta lose broke up here and there and they’re cool kids, but they got they got into that roots music, man.

00:26:33.000 –> 00:26:40.890 Hope Surrett: They look, I’ll tell you what, man. We love playing bluegrass for those kinds of audiences because they just, I don’t think they’re prepared for the power of it, you know.

00:26:41.610 –> 00:26:52.410 Hope Surrett: When the drive hits in a good bluegrass band, it’s, it’s kind of got that rock and roll energy about it. And when that hits them with special with acoustic instruments they lose their minds. It’s so much fun.

00:26:52.560 –> 00:26:58.170 Joseph McElroy: And you know, when you put clogging do it, you know, pretty crazy with Bob and I mean you can, you know, you can throw

00:26:58.260 –> 00:26:58.770 Hope Surrett: Oh, yeah.

00:26:59.100 –> 00:26:59.640 Joseph McElroy: Oh, yeah.

00:27:00.870 –> 00:27:04.320 Hope Surrett: There was a big festival in Nashville. For years, called bail share

00:27:04.770 –> 00:27:06.000 Joseph McElroy: Yeah yeah

00:27:06.060 –> 00:27:07.410 Hope Surrett: Oh, it was huge and

00:27:08.850 –> 00:27:17.850 Hope Surrett: It had everything and they always had us close it out and it was so much fun because they close off the streets of downtown Nashville, they’d be, you know, eight or 10,000 people out there.

00:27:18.480 –> 00:27:25.860 Hope Surrett: And we would have farmers from out here. Jonathan very calm Haywood out there in the streets dancing with the with the hippie KIDS DOING THE SPAN, you know,

00:27:26.550 –> 00:27:26.850 Hope Surrett: It was

00:27:27.540 –> 00:27:30.780 Hope Surrett: It was all all for one and one for all. It was just great.

00:27:32.370 –> 00:27:37.950 Joseph McElroy: Yeah, well you know that that sort of hippie thing is always been around, we have a rainbow children come. There we go.

00:27:37.950 –> 00:27:38.610 Joseph McElroy: Oh, sure.

00:27:39.480 –> 00:27:48.540 Joseph McElroy: Yeah, so the mountains, have always had this sort of counterculture yeah yeah yeah that’s pretty cool. Well you know I

00:27:50.160 –> 00:27:57.900 Joseph McElroy: I see 1991 you and Mickey gamble on the new record and company called a mountain home music company. Right. Yeah.

00:27:57.960 –> 00:28:05.370 Hope Surrett: Yeah, I’ll tell you. I’ll tell you what happened with that you know I mentioned a minute ago how I saw a young age, the Bluegrass people

00:28:06.060 –> 00:28:26.490 Hope Surrett: The gospel. People loved the Bluegrass and even with the king’s men, they would have me take a guitar in the middle of a quartet style program and sing a couple of three bluegrass style songs and I saw very quickly that the gospel. People loved both styles. So I talked to Mickey who owned

00:28:27.600 –> 00:28:40.560 Hope Surrett: A studio in Nashville about life. I was with the king’s men, it’s time. But I was looking for an outlet to perform or not perform so much but produce and and and just play some bluegrass because I loved it so much.

00:28:41.640 –> 00:28:43.890 Hope Surrett: And they understood the business idea I had that

00:28:45.540 –> 00:28:51.960 Hope Surrett: You know, at that time, the gospel. People would accept either one. So we have what I consider the double market.

00:28:52.410 –> 00:29:04.380 Hope Surrett: And we started out with. It was all Bluegrass gospel, to start with, and it’s just kind of kept growing and growing and growing and morphing over the years and and our band is still on that label all these was it 30 years later. Oh, Lord.

00:29:06.030 –> 00:29:14.190 Joseph McElroy: Well, I’m going to take a break down we’ll finish up a little bit more about that story. Alright, sounds pretty good. I love that. I love that. And the actual artists and might be involved.

00:29:14.280 –> 00:29:15.450 Hope Surrett: All right. Okay. Sure.

00:31:36.510 –> 00:31:43.740 Joseph McElroy: Hey it’s Joseph Franklin McIlroy back with gateway to the Smokies podcast, then I guess Tim certain balsam range.

00:31:44.970 –> 00:31:56.550 Joseph McElroy: Hey, Tim. We were talking about your about your, your, your records recording company. And I was wondering could you tell me about that Smoky Mountain talents. You’re seeing these days.

00:31:57.180 –> 00:32:02.130 Hope Surrett: Man, we started out with, with all local folks, pretty much.

00:32:03.870 –> 00:32:04.620 Hope Surrett: You know, just

00:32:05.730 –> 00:32:14.760 Hope Surrett: There was so much bluegrass around here still is local gospel family bands that kind of stuff. And then we started getting people from out of the area.

00:32:15.540 –> 00:32:32.670 Hope Surrett: But, you know, we’ve we’ve had everybody. And you can think of. And over the past 30 years major, major names on our label and a lot of them are still there. So, uh, yeah. I started out with. I’ll tell you one of my favorites is a young man from Candler North Carolina.

00:32:34.050 –> 00:32:47.970 Hope Surrett: By the name of Brian Sutton, and Brian is a Grammy Award winner, world class guitar player. I don’t know how many times he’s one bluegrass guitar player of the year, but he’s played with everybody on the planet from Ricky Skaggs to everybody. You can think of and

00:32:49.080 –> 00:32:57.390 Hope Surrett: I met him when I was a senior high school at Inca and got him on his first session and next thing you know he’s traveling with Ricky Skaggs but back in those days.

00:32:58.380 –> 00:33:06.030 Hope Surrett: These family groups would come into record from the area and they would have myself and another musician. I’m David Johnson, who plays everything on the planet.

00:33:06.450 –> 00:33:16.020 Hope Surrett: Plays every instrument. I’ve ever seen at a master level and also a humble sweet guy and I can’t tell you how many records we cut for these family bands with just myself and David

00:33:16.470 –> 00:33:17.070 Joseph McElroy: Oh, wow.

00:33:17.280 –> 00:33:29.940 Hope Surrett: Just the two of us would play all the instruments and and and it was so much fun. But over the years it morphed into an actual major bluegrass label and and we’ve had everybody from Tony rice Larry sparks.

00:33:31.380 –> 00:33:39.600 Hope Surrett: You know bluegrass household names don’t last me Quicksilver balsam range Lawrence river by in the grass skulls too many to name and

00:33:39.660 –> 00:33:39.930 Joseph McElroy: I looked

00:33:41.070 –> 00:33:46.080 Joseph McElroy: I looked at it was pretty impressive is like, Oh my gosh, this is, this is the real deal here. Yeah, it’s

00:33:46.200 –> 00:33:53.520 Hope Surrett: It’s been a wonderful thing for. I can’t believe it just hit me talking to you. Yeah, this year. Next 30 years that’s man. That’s crazy.

00:33:53.730 –> 00:33:55.260 Joseph McElroy: I hate to remind you of your age.

00:33:57.480 –> 00:33:59.790 Hope Surrett: Oh, I can see myself as a reminder already

00:34:02.070 –> 00:34:14.160 Joseph McElroy: So you’ve experienced SO WE’RE IN THE BLUEGRASS now you’ve experienced a lot of mountain mountain. MUSIC All right. Yeah. And your marriage music here just comfortable Smoky Mountains, but you’ve traveled a lot. You’ve seen bluegrass

00:34:14.700 –> 00:34:22.980 Joseph McElroy: Bluegrass has claimed it a lot of different areas. Is there anything different about the Smoky Mountain bluegrass that the make a distinctive sound.

00:34:23.520 –> 00:34:34.050 Hope Surrett: I think, I think there is usually in bands from this area western North Carolina or some of them in East Tennessee on the smoke that side of the Smokies there’s an energy there.

00:34:34.740 –> 00:34:51.990 Hope Surrett: That’s, that’s kind of unmistakable unmistakable. You can really feel it. And there’s also an element I think of the old time music, you know, the fiddle team kind of thing that creeps in. I know it does in our music. It creeps in quite often. And I love that stuff. You know,

00:34:53.010 –> 00:34:54.930 Hope Surrett: So I do think that kind of sets.

00:34:56.040 –> 00:35:03.660 Hope Surrett: People from our region apart just a little bit, it’s, it’s a difference. And of course, our accents have something to do with it, you know, with

00:35:04.680 –> 00:35:10.680 Hope Surrett: With balsam range. People say, you know, the way you harmonize. Are you guys is that family harmony. And I said, No, that’s county harmony.

00:35:12.900 –> 00:35:22.950 Joseph McElroy: Yeah, we did a show, you know, the couple weeks ago about the Scottish influence on mountain culture, you know, and talking about you know how the Scotch Irish came here.

00:35:23.400 –> 00:35:23.760 Hope Surrett: Right.

00:35:24.000 –> 00:35:35.160 Joseph McElroy: And brought a lot of tradition of that kind of music, a balance and things that when you started bringing in the banjo and stuff started morphing into this more beat driven music that’s bluegrass right

00:35:35.550 –> 00:35:39.510 Hope Surrett: Right, absolutely. I mean, that Scotch Irish thing is still huge

00:35:40.620 –> 00:35:46.950 Hope Surrett: You know, it’s what it’s what’s bad bill Monroe sold to start this kind of thing off in the first place, but

00:35:47.880 –> 00:35:52.620 Hope Surrett: Yeah, it’s especially around here that that like that’s what I’m saying that old time droning fiddle

00:35:53.460 –> 00:36:00.300 Hope Surrett: faddle team kind of thing. And every bluegrass band in the world still play some of the songs that very well came over from

00:36:00.810 –> 00:36:16.290 Hope Surrett: Scotland or England or Ireland or whales or somewhere over in there and that’s why that music cross pollinate. That’s why the Irish music resonates so strongly with people like us, you know, it’s, there’s something in our blood that that that really identifies with us.

00:36:17.010 –> 00:36:18.000 Joseph McElroy: You mentioned one point.

00:36:19.380 –> 00:36:25.410 Joseph McElroy: You really felt that it’s like there’s a bluegrass is like it almost seems very authentic because it feels natural to you.

00:36:26.340 –> 00:36:33.930 Hope Surrett: Oh yeah, I’ll tell you, for me, and we’re, you know, close to the same age. I spoke about wanting to play rock and roll. When I was a kid. And when I was a

00:36:34.440 –> 00:36:47.490 Hope Surrett: high schooler radio was I mean popular radio was so good. I mean, you, you just and you’re always sentimental about what you grew up on but on pop radio, you would hear the Eagles or

00:36:47.910 –> 00:37:04.650 Hope Surrett: Kansas or foreigner, or, you know, all these great thing and bands and then when the 80s rolled around, you know, the new wave thing started. And I’m not degrading anybody’s opinion that’s why there’s buttons on the radio. But for me, the, the sense era kind of

00:37:05.790 –> 00:37:19.740 Hope Surrett: Lost me a little bit and I started longing for something more authentic more primitive, I guess you might say, and it drove me to back to blue grass, and in particular bill Monroe.

00:37:20.820 –> 00:37:34.170 Hope Surrett: The father of bluegrass is he’s widely known. And there was something there was something they called it the high lonesome sound. There’s something, there’s something in that music I can hurt. David Letterman talk about it one time he loved bill Monroe and

00:37:36.000 –> 00:37:42.810 Hope Surrett: There was something in that that really, really got to me and people like Bill Monroe and Ralph Stanley Stanley brothers.

00:37:43.290 –> 00:37:45.150 Hope Surrett: The way they saying it was it was a

00:37:46.590 –> 00:37:50.220 Hope Surrett: Had a lonesome quality to it. They had a real mountain thing about it, you know.

00:37:51.780 –> 00:37:53.310 Joseph McElroy: Scotch Irish influence

00:37:54.750 –> 00:37:59.730 Joseph McElroy: And immigrants much that they were always longing for home that they didn’t even know existed.

00:38:00.000 –> 00:38:01.410 Hope Surrett: There’s a longing for something

00:38:02.460 –> 00:38:03.720 Hope Surrett: I don’t know if you ever find it.

00:38:07.230 –> 00:38:19.680 Hope Surrett: Just comes out in that sound and that’s the authenticity. And just the fact that the skill level, it takes to play bluegrass well because there’s nothing between you and the crowd, but your, your hands on the instrument and your voice. That’s all there is, you know,

00:38:20.310 –> 00:38:29.310 Joseph McElroy: So there’s a lot of authentic instruments. I’m talking about handcrafted things. I know you did a producer down with Tom Tony rice called crossings that featured handcrafted

00:38:29.880 –> 00:38:32.790 Joseph McElroy: Well, yeah, that building the mountains or some of it.

00:38:33.060 –> 00:38:35.610 Hope Surrett: Yeah, well sure there’s there’s a

00:38:36.690 –> 00:38:50.640 Hope Surrett: You know there’s there’s two or three makers of instruments like Martin guitars or gets an instruments, the banjos and Mandel ends, but there’s also a huge culture nowadays of custom, custom instruments handmade instruments.

00:38:51.930 –> 00:39:06.180 Hope Surrett: That are based on some of the great instruments of the 20s, 30s, 40s of the last century. Our guitar player Caleb Smith, you should come contact him about an episode because he builds custom guitars guitars that are unbelievable.

00:39:07.650 –> 00:39:18.240 Hope Surrett: And there is a big thing. You know, you got the whole dulcimer culture here. That is a cool sound that’s that’s all its own has that droning sound that are either Scotch Irish kind of thing.

00:39:19.260 –> 00:39:33.360 Hope Surrett: In yeah there’s builders of instruments. I know the guy can’t hear that makes fabulous mandolin there Caleb our guitar player makes fabulous guitars 10 minutes from where I’m sitting and we know all kinds of these people around here that make their own instruments.

00:39:34.410 –> 00:39:36.840 Hope Surrett: To a really high master level.

00:39:37.320 –> 00:39:43.740 Joseph McElroy: Wow. So let’s talk about balsam range is now how did, how did you guys come together as a legendary band now.

00:39:43.830 –> 00:39:46.800 Hope Surrett: Nah. Well, if you hang around long enough, they call you that, but

00:39:49.350 –> 00:39:52.350 Hope Surrett: They call I call it a very, very happy.

00:39:54.030 –> 00:40:02.520 Hope Surrett: Coincidence, basically, and I don’t believe in coincidence, all that much. It’s a joke, but all of us had been all over the country and all over the world, playing in different

00:40:03.060 –> 00:40:10.170 Hope Surrett: Bands of some kind, myself in the gospel world Mark Pruitt our banjo player played with Ricky Skaggs for many years.

00:40:10.830 –> 00:40:25.230 Hope Surrett: And on his albums and all the guys has been all over the place and we all ended up back in in Canton around here about the same time and we didn’t all even know each other because luckily I’ve been on the road, since I was 17, you know, and we

00:40:26.670 –> 00:40:30.960 Hope Surrett: Are mandolin player dare Nicholson I RAN INTO HIM AT A physical football game. First one.

00:40:32.070 –> 00:40:44.190 Hope Surrett: First one. I’ve been off the road to go to about 20 years and he stopped me at the ball game said he was going to do a solo, and he called me, Mr. Sir, he said, I’m going to do a record. I want you to play the bass on it, which I do quite often and

00:40:45.420 –> 00:40:54.360 Hope Surrett: I said, Sure. Well, Mark and I ended up playing on that record great Rick and a month or two later buddy mountain our fiddle player 10 or singer who is spectacular.

00:40:56.490 –> 00:41:10.440 Hope Surrett: He called Mark and wanted to do another solo bluegrass record and Mark and I ended up playing on that record. We had so much fun on those two records we mark. And I said, Let’s get these two bunches together and just jam, a little, you know,

00:41:12.450 –> 00:41:24.540 Hope Surrett: So we got together in right before Christmas of oh six at Dan’s house here in Canton, and let’s just play some standards and pick a little bit, you know, and first notes went off and we were on

00:41:25.950 –> 00:41:27.840 Hope Surrett: This. That sounds pretty good. You know,

00:41:28.170 –> 00:41:34.320 Hope Surrett: Yeah. We jam for a couple, three hours until I tell you what, let’s get back together after Christmas, do it again, have some more fun.

00:41:35.340 –> 00:41:38.610 Hope Surrett: When we did. And I was curious to see if it still sounded good, you know,

00:41:40.860 –> 00:41:46.980 Hope Surrett: So we got together and oh seven in January kicked off first song, who, there it is, you know,

00:41:47.970 –> 00:42:04.500 Hope Surrett: And Mark prove it was kind of the local guy for all the gigs, like my dad used to play all the corporate things and stuff. And he said, I’ve been contacted to play a show in Asheville at the growth parky and huge tourist great old beautiful place. And he said,

00:42:05.640 –> 00:42:14.010 Hope Surrett: He said, You want to do it will just make up a name and go and we made up a name. And I don’t remember what it was, it was not balsam range. But we went did the show.

00:42:14.850 –> 00:42:23.370 Hope Surrett: Total non bluegrass crowd of about 2500 people and they lost their minds and we we thought let’s just, you know, do this a little more. And it just kind of

00:42:23.910 –> 00:42:32.070 Hope Surrett: More and more, more and more and more started playing around Asheville regularly and then broadened out and then what really hit for us was

00:42:34.770 –> 00:42:42.480 Hope Surrett: We cut our first record, you know, seven and Darren or mandolin player gave a copy to a great friend of ours, but the name of Kyle Cantrell

00:42:43.110 –> 00:42:55.080 Hope Surrett: He was a WB SM and Nashville for years and years. Grand Ole Opry announcer, and he was hired to be the program director for the Bluegrass channel ON SIRIUS XM and he

00:42:56.670 –> 00:43:07.020 Hope Surrett: He took that CD and not knowing what to make of it played it loved it and started playing this one town and it kind of went it blew up as much as bluegrass can blow up.

00:43:10.650 –> 00:43:16.410 Hope Surrett: And people started calling and book and all over the place. And here we are 14 years later, but all over the world.

00:43:16.440 –> 00:43:20.160 Hope Surrett: Very thankful for that happy coincidence, man.

00:43:20.640 –> 00:43:24.690 Joseph McElroy: Well, after we after we come back from this break here. Tell me how you came up with a name balsam range.

00:43:24.990 –> 00:43:25.380 Hope Surrett: All right.

00:45:45.720 –> 00:45:59.340 Joseph McElroy: Hi this is Joseph Franklin macro. He’s very eager to get back to you with the gateway to the to the Smokies podcasts and, I guess, Tim, sir, and balsam range. So tell me, Tim, how did you come up with that name balsam range.

00:45:59.640 –> 00:46:03.990 Hope Surrett: Well, as I said, we were playing locally. Then, and that’s all we intended to do, truthfully.

00:46:05.280 –> 00:46:16.290 Hope Surrett: Play around Haywood County, maybe Asheville some more and whatnot. But we started trying to find a name for a bluegrass band is tough. I tried to I suggest to DEF heifer but the rest of them wouldn’t buy that.

00:46:16.290 –> 00:46:16.500 So,

00:46:19.230 –> 00:46:24.060 Hope Surrett: We started looking at landmarks around the county that would, you know, we had that real Haywood County thing.

00:46:25.140 –> 00:46:35.400 Hope Surrett: And we came across, we know we tried all the names around on the Parkway and whatnot, the Smokies we thought cat Lucci would never work because nobody would spell it or say it and

00:46:37.380 –> 00:46:42.360 Hope Surrett: But here, up on the parkway the highest point around here is the, the great balsam range.

00:46:42.630 –> 00:46:42.930 Joseph McElroy: Yeah.

00:46:42.960 –> 00:46:53.970 Hope Surrett: You know those those mountains that kind of horseshoe Haywood County in Jackson County and we decided to go with that. But we thought great balsam range was a little pretentious, so we

00:46:53.970 –> 00:46:54.270 Dropped

00:46:59.220 –> 00:47:00.930 Joseph McElroy: The great balsam range. Yeah.

00:47:01.320 –> 00:47:04.290 Hope Surrett: So we just decided to go with the pretty good balsam range and

00:47:04.290 –> 00:47:06.660 Joseph McElroy: Oh favorite county boys are humble.

00:47:06.930 –> 00:47:10.560 Hope Surrett: Yeah, because if you’re not the rest of the county will humble you.

00:47:12.780 –> 00:47:18.900 Hope Surrett: Don’t mind at all. But that’s where it came from. We didn’t think we would ever played that far away from it that people wouldn’t know what it meant.

00:47:19.230 –> 00:47:22.470 Joseph McElroy: Yeah. So you’re all accomplished musicians and

00:47:24.240 –> 00:47:26.670 Joseph McElroy: Singers. At some point, how do you manage that.

00:47:27.180 –> 00:47:29.040 Hope Surrett: It’s fun. Man, to tell you the truth.

00:47:30.120 –> 00:47:43.740 Hope Surrett: Is so much fun because he would. I think it’s fun for the audience because you don’t listen to the, you know, one guy saying every song or or the same trio sing in harmony or we can switch around a lot. And we do

00:47:44.370 –> 00:47:46.530 Hope Surrett: And I think it’s more interesting to people.

00:47:48.810 –> 00:47:54.630 Hope Surrett: They’re trying to figure out, well, who’s singing. Now, you know, so it’s fun for us when we’re arranging music because

00:47:55.320 –> 00:48:07.200 Hope Surrett: You know, we can put different people sitting in different parts. And sometimes, you know, you can have one guessing and lead three guys singing behind him. So it opens up a lot of a lot of variety in your harmony singing it.

00:48:07.770 –> 00:48:15.030 Joseph McElroy: Yeah. Imagine the drama that you guys do have in the band is an arbitrary edge is probably more like go outside for a cigarette or

00:48:16.590 –> 00:48:27.090 Hope Surrett: We talk all the time, myself and Derek Nicholson cost Caleb things lead lot buddy sings Tanner, he’s got the high voice and daring enough flip a coin for the baritone part and whoever loses has to take it, you know.

00:48:29.700 –> 00:48:32.340 Joseph McElroy: There you go, coming out with a simple system that’s the way to do

00:48:32.370 –> 00:48:33.180 Hope Surrett: There you go. Yeah.

00:48:33.240 –> 00:48:35.790 Joseph McElroy: Yeah. So what is your latest album.

00:48:37.170 –> 00:48:45.870 Hope Surrett: We’ve got the latest one. We’ve had out called IANA a CEO and I see it’s pretty cool word and it did very well for us. It was number one on billboard.

00:48:46.650 –> 00:48:57.120 Hope Surrett: Was a really great record force we were about two thirds of the way through a new record. And the reason why I’m finished. It’s because we can’t go play at this particular time, you know,

00:48:58.410 –> 00:49:12.390 Hope Surrett: We have we’ve had two number one songs. This past year, often unfinished record and the songs, we’d never really played him in public, because you know there’s no shows at this point. So we got a new record in the in the works had a new single go out this past Friday.

00:49:12.780 –> 00:49:16.380 Hope Surrett: Window, the new single. Well, I wish you asked me.

00:49:18.360 –> 00:49:20.790 Hope Surrett: It’s called rivers and range and runaway trains.

00:49:20.970 –> 00:49:21.600 Joseph McElroy: Oh, wow.

00:49:21.870 –> 00:49:24.360 Hope Surrett: It’s the new thing, or maybe the album title, I don’t know, but

00:49:24.930 –> 00:49:26.160 Joseph McElroy: Perfect country western song.

00:49:27.810 –> 00:49:29.670 Hope Surrett: It’s got that longing in it, doesn’t it.

00:49:31.710 –> 00:49:36.540 Hope Surrett: But yeah, we’ve we’ve we’ve been blessed. I don’t even know how many albums. We’ve that we’ve done now 10 or 11, I guess.

00:49:36.840 –> 00:49:44.610 Hope Surrett: And and they’ve all done very well for us. But he was a good one, number one on billboard was a really cool thing for us.

00:49:45.270 –> 00:49:48.870 Joseph McElroy: So you haven’t been able to play versus your has been treating you guys

00:49:49.080 –> 00:49:55.500 Hope Surrett: Well, it’s tough on all musicians and we figured since last March, we’ve played three live shows

00:49:56.940 –> 00:50:11.940 Hope Surrett: And one in Texas, one in Oklahoma and one in Ohio, and we’ve got one scheduled for the 30th and Newberry South Carolina at that at the famous Newberry Opera House. This is one of our favorite shows we do every year. So we’re just praying, it hangs in there, you know,

00:50:13.080 –> 00:50:26.790 Hope Surrett: But, but, yeah, it’s been tough on ton all the musicians from the lowest of the superstars. It’s very difficult time. And we’ve tried to use that time to record more and you know kind of concentrate on that.

00:50:28.050 –> 00:50:32.940 Joseph McElroy: What do you think you, what do you think you might get a tour together would be next year, or would it be

00:50:33.120 –> 00:50:33.360 Well,

00:50:34.440 –> 00:50:42.300 Hope Surrett: A lot of our dates that you know you book a year, two years in advance and for the latter half of the year. A lot of our dates are still there. So,

00:50:42.960 –> 00:50:49.890 Hope Surrett: Just remains to be seen how many I’m staying. A lot of these dates for the early part of the first half of the year have already moved to next year so

00:50:51.690 –> 00:50:54.510 Hope Surrett: I think it’s gonna be very similar to this past year, unfortunately.

00:50:54.930 –> 00:50:58.290 Joseph McElroy: Do you have any dates in the Smoky Mountain area and or the New York area.

00:50:59.400 –> 00:51:07.500 Hope Surrett: No, you know, some of the dates January and February and the first week of March was all we had last year and we spent a whole weekend in New York City, which was

00:51:08.070 –> 00:51:18.240 Hope Surrett: One of our favorite things to do we play at the the Hilton there in Manhattan so much. It’s so much fun, man. I mean, I don’t know what to do with a hillbilly thing, you know.

00:51:18.660 –> 00:51:19.980 Joseph McElroy: When, when you come up

00:51:32.310 –> 00:51:32.610 Hope Surrett: Well,

00:51:35.550 –> 00:51:43.110 Hope Surrett: We’ll just it just remains to be seen. We put our own Festival on every December. Yeah, like here like Juneau Alaska in the Smokies here and

00:51:43.860 –> 00:51:53.310 Hope Surrett: And this was first year that we’ve had to call it off this past December, it’s so I’m really hope we can get all that back on for the latter part of the year, Lord willing,

00:51:53.700 –> 00:51:57.960 Joseph McElroy: And I want to call this one is called the Smoky Mountain bluegrass festival right it was

00:51:58.020 –> 00:51:59.850 Hope Surrett: Well, what’s called the balsam range art.

00:52:00.480 –> 00:52:02.250 Joseph McElroy: Festival. Yeah, that’s right, yeah.

00:52:02.760 –> 00:52:09.090 Hope Surrett: And it’s cool, because all the music is in student auditorium, which is a beautiful indoor facility, but you’re looking out over the lake and it’s

00:52:09.600 –> 00:52:24.270 Hope Surrett: It’s got the outdoor vibe to it, but it’s all indoors and people, people come from all over the country. And we’ve had people from overseas come and because you in the Smoky Mountains in December, you can ski and the next day you can play golf. You know, you never know.

00:52:25.530 –> 00:52:26.130 Joseph McElroy: Well, I’ll tell you.

00:52:27.210 –> 00:52:34.680 Joseph McElroy: One thing keeps you locked in a little bit. When it gets a little bit warmer. We have a we have an open to the middle of a big old backyard.

00:52:36.210 –> 00:52:39.000 Joseph McElroy: You guys goodbye just thrown out of you want to do.

00:52:40.410 –> 00:52:54.090 Hope Surrett: We’ve got this show coming up on the 30th in South Carolina, and I was home yesterday and got my instruments out for the first time in a while. Just to see if my fingers bleed. You know, so we’re gonna have to get back into shape, that’s for sure.

00:52:54.810 –> 00:53:00.180 Joseph McElroy: So, um, tell me you got a radio show now and you’re about to go to it after this

00:53:00.270 –> 00:53:00.660 Hope Surrett: I am

00:53:02.340 –> 00:53:14.700 Hope Surrett: Or six minutes. Well, you know, back in August. It was I, I was really missing the fellowship of the road and the band and the people that we play for we’ve had a strict policy at make friends not fans.

00:53:16.230 –> 00:53:25.230 Hope Surrett: Kind of attitude and I was really missing the interaction with all our friends across the world. And I started thinking of some way we could get together and

00:53:26.640 –> 00:53:38.760 Hope Surrett: That kind of thing. And it just came in my mind. You know what a metal radio show, and I came and I talked to my friend longtime hospital friend. You might remember Terrell Rick from Tesco lets you say my giant

00:53:38.880 –> 00:53:39.330 Joseph McElroy: Yeah.

00:53:39.960 –> 00:53:46.590 Hope Surrett: But he will her dad is on the little local radio station here in Haywood County, since the 70s and I, uh,

00:53:47.850 –> 00:53:59.400 Hope Surrett: I called her up and I said, I’m thinking about. I’m not want to do a radio show. I don’t know. I don’t have any experience with it. She said, when you won’t start. So about 10 days later, we went on the air doing two hours of live

00:54:01.050 –> 00:54:06.660 Hope Surrett: Radio doing bluegrass a classic country music and

00:54:07.380 –> 00:54:11.040 Hope Surrett: Gospel and gospel as well. And it’s just kind of took off on us.

00:54:12.240 –> 00:54:14.310 Joseph McElroy: Right on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

00:54:14.310 –> 00:54:17.820 Hope Surrett: Tuesdays and Thursdays from 7pm Eastern to 10

00:54:18.060 –> 00:54:19.170 Joseph McElroy: And what is a radio station.

00:54:19.440 –> 00:54:42.030 Hope Surrett: weta al in Canton, and it’s WP to radio.net or they have an app as well on iPhones or whatnot, or smartphone app. So we stream and it’s gone nuts on us in a good way, we’re having, you know, 1314 15,000 people every episode everywhere from Heidelberg Germany to try out Creek Montana, so

00:54:43.740 –> 00:54:46.980 Hope Surrett: 10 or 1211 12,000 people in this region.

00:54:47.400 –> 00:55:00.660 Joseph McElroy: Well, I appreciate you coming on taking the time to be with us. It’s been a wonderful show even though it’s glitches and I’ll let you go to get to your show and finish up here with what we’re doing what we’re doing. So thank you very much, Tim.

00:55:00.780 –> 00:55:03.660 Hope Surrett: All right. Hey, my pleasure. He’s, he’s fun to do. Thanks a lot. Good.

00:55:03.960 –> 00:55:14.310 Joseph McElroy: All right, bye bye. Okay, folks. Thank you for listening to gateway to the Smokies podcast I want to mention that you can find more about [email protected] slash

00:55:14.850 –> 00:55:23.340 Joseph McElroy: Gateway to the Smokies podcast. We’re also we’re also part of this where traveler magazine network where we were actually building a

00:55:24.480 –> 00:55:27.840 Joseph McElroy: Section, and we’re traveling, which is 100 year old magazine or something like that.

00:55:28.380 –> 00:55:37.020 Joseph McElroy: For travel and it’s called the Great Smoky Mountains section you go find out a lot of good articles there. I’ve also got a local a website called the

00:55:37.560 –> 00:55:49.830 Joseph McElroy: smokies adventure calm, where you can get listings about hiking and music and places to go in the Smoky Mountains and also find stories that will help you experience those adventures.

00:55:50.610 –> 00:56:03.990 Joseph McElroy: Deeply and with a lot of people and of course I own a motel and Maggie value, North Carolina. My family 45 years. It’s a metal arc motel.com and Lark motel calm and you’re welcome to come visit us and start your

00:56:04.290 –> 00:56:08.670 Joseph McElroy: Smoky Mountain adventures was where you stay and thank you very much. See you next week.

We will be talking to Dave Angel, owner of Elevated Mountain Distillery in Maggie Valley, NC. We will be talking about the revival of the craft beverage industry in the Smoky Mountains and the history of Moonshine.

Tune in for this fun conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.



Joseph McElroy’s guest today is Dave Angel, his cousin through marriage and the owner of Elevated Mountain Distillery. The Scottish Gaelic call it “Uisce Beatha,” which translates to “Water of Life.” When the Scottish arrived at the Smokies they didn’t just bring their musical influence, they also contributed to the practices of distilleries. To this day some believe that the medicine of the mountains only works with the help of moonshine. Throughout the 20th century, moonshine had its place within the local economy. Dave made his first moonshine when he was 14 years old. It was his goal to learn and pass on the tradition. Moonshine is alcohol that is not made legally. People often think of moonshine as a knock off but the only difference is the legality. Moonshine can be made from many things, including fruit. In the 1930s people used to distill grains and apples to make an Apple Brandy.

Whiskey is alcohol distilled from grain so it starts with beer, also known as mash. Whiskey boils at 174 degrees. After separating it from the water, you get the whiskey. When it comes down to making good whiskey you need to understand what the head and the heart are. The head is the toxic chemicals that are extracted. Ethanol is bad moonshine that can make a person go blind. Once the head is gone you get the whiskey. This is normally a 20-hour process. As the ethanol comes out you start to get a lot of interesting flavors. That is when you get the tails, and depending on when you make certain cuts the flavor can change dramatically. A good distillery knows how to make sure your whiskey has a long enough tail. Soft water with a good mineral base is also key. Dave believes that the water in the Smokie is great for moonshine, people come to Maggie Valley looking for moonshine because of it. It is part of the reason that he has his distillery where it is, the purity of the water. Maggie Valley has a long history of moonshine and David’s business was welcomed with open arms.

Guests at the Elevated Mountain Distillery can enjoy their wide range of drinks, see how it’s made, and even enjoy live music. Dave talks about the differences in how whiskeys are made. Tennessee whiskey is a bourbon that goes through a charred mapple filter. Scottish whiskey and Irish whiskey are distilled in bourbon barrels. In his distillery, they use this method and many more. According to Dave one of the most popular Distilleries in Tennessee is Ole Smoky Moonshine in Gatlin, TN. The water of the Smoky Mountains has allowed so many distilleries and wineries to produce incredible wine, beers, and whiskeys. The most visited winery in America is in Asheville, North Carolina.

The talk is about Popcorn Sutton, an American Appalachian moonshiner, and bootlegger who gained popularity when he appeared in the Neal Hutcheson documentary, “Mountain Talk.” People were so excited when his truck pulled up that they would rush to buy his moonshine. Moonshiners in the past cared more about making money over quality but there is a renewed interest, in part due to the popularity of shows such as “Moonshiner.”

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00:00:42.330 –> 00:00:56.070 Joseph McElroy: Howdy. Thanks for joining us on this week’s episode of gateway to the Smokies. This podcast is about America’s most visited National Park, the Great Smoky Mountains National Park in the surrounding towns.

00:00:56.880 –> 00:01:06.720 Joseph McElroy: This area is filled with ancient natural beauty a deep storied history and rich in cultures that we will explore with weekly episodes.

00:01:07.830 –> 00:01:20.280 Joseph McElroy: I am Joseph Franklyn McElroy a man of the world and also with deep roots in these mountains. My family’s lived in the Great Smoky for over 200 years my business is in travel but my heart is in culture.

00:01:21.600 –> 00:01:32.850 Joseph McElroy: Today we’re going to talk about liquor in the Smoky Mountains. I’m going to introduce you to my cousin by marriage Dave Angel who is the proprietor of elevated mountain distillery who

00:01:32.880 –> 00:01:49.110 Joseph McElroy: Hey. Hey. How you doing, and he’s an expert in whiskey. We’re going to talk about that liquor White Lightning corn squeezing Mountain Dew. White mules, slopes, white dog, or the most popular known as moonshine.

00:01:50.130 –> 00:01:56.250 Joseph McElroy: Hang on, until the end. And that will give you some places ago and things to do in the mountains to help you explore to explore

00:01:57.420 –> 00:02:05.490 Joseph McElroy: Now, last week we talked about the Scotch Irish influence on music in the mountains, but we didn’t touch much upon their influence on distill

00:02:06.450 –> 00:02:15.510 Joseph McElroy: Whiskey is actually derived from the Gaelic word our cube. I hope I said that right, which translates as water of life.

00:02:16.500 –> 00:02:21.210 Joseph McElroy: And when the Scotch Irish migrated to America. They brought with them a history of distilling

00:02:21.720 –> 00:02:35.640 Joseph McElroy: They adapted for use on common on the common great in North America maze, also known as a core they learned a lot from the Cherokees and cultivating this crop and became experts and distilling it into spirits.

00:02:36.750 –> 00:02:49.050 Joseph McElroy: Now I remember growing up in the mountains in the mountains that met moonshine was a part of the fabric of life if you went to the square dance hall and Saturday night you knew that you could get a drink and moonshine out the bath.

00:02:50.550 –> 00:03:01.380 Joseph McElroy: I remember that. Sometimes my dad got paid for construction work with moonshine, and before he was a construction company owner. He was a chemical engineer and I remember that he

00:03:02.070 –> 00:03:05.400 Joseph McElroy: I came home one day and I saw this glass contraption.

00:03:06.210 –> 00:03:19.710 Joseph McElroy: I had no clue what it was and sitting on the table. I was pretty young. I WAS HEADING TOWARDS IT. HE GOT MY WAY didn’t keep me from breaking and breaking it. I didn’t know what it was for several years. But he made himself and glass still

00:03:21.660 –> 00:03:24.870 Joseph McElroy: And so it has been true to his roots.

00:03:26.130 –> 00:03:43.620 Joseph McElroy: And other things I remember is that Pigs love to eat leftover mash from this building. And to this day, and even to this day. I know that some people believe that faith that the, you know, our famous mountain herbal recipes remedies only work with a touch of moonshine in them so

00:03:44.640 –> 00:03:57.960 Joseph McElroy: There’s a lot of cultural richness to the culture to moonshine in the mountains, but not all the moonshine culture was good. So, you know, a lot of people lives are ruined by legal troubles and alcoholism and

00:03:58.560 –> 00:04:09.300 Joseph McElroy: Parents being, you know, distant and yeah so you know fighting. There is a lot of that as well. So it’s not at all a good story. But yeah, there was a time when

00:04:10.230 –> 00:04:20.910 Joseph McElroy: The only way to get cash money to pay taxes was to sell moonshine and livestock. So it was it for a while, especially in the 19th and early 20th century, it was, it was part of the economic

00:04:22.890 –> 00:04:26.310 Joseph McElroy: the economic necessity of life in this Great Smoky Mountains.

00:04:27.840 –> 00:04:32.490 Joseph McElroy: And one of the funny things I was finding out recently talking to some people, was that

00:04:33.330 –> 00:04:47.820 Joseph McElroy: Elections back in the 19th century were awful pain. We’re often paid by moonshine. Then somebody wanted to get elected better have a party on election day and be given out free moonshots that everybody gets drunk and then goes in and vote together.

00:04:49.110 –> 00:04:52.200 Joseph McElroy: And then the one with the best part of that usually won the election.

00:04:53.550 –> 00:04:58.740 Joseph McElroy: But I mean, that might be an exaggeration, but I think there was some element of truth to that.

00:05:00.090 –> 00:05:11.040 Joseph McElroy: So now let me introduce you to my good friend and cousin Dave Angel who knows a lot more about me than moonshine and legal distilling he’s going to fill you in a lot. So howdy Dave

00:05:11.850 –> 00:05:13.500 Dave Angel: Hey, how are you good

00:05:14.430 –> 00:05:22.830 Joseph McElroy: Good to see you again. So why don’t you, why don’t you first let everybody know your background, you know, how did you end up being an expert on distiller

00:05:23.970 –> 00:05:32.520 Dave Angel: Well, you know, grown-up or Joseph and I grew up, it is it like he said its part of the culture it’s around is something I was fascinated with my whole life growing up.

00:05:33.240 –> 00:05:41.070 Dave Angel: I actually made my first run a moonshot as 14 years old is my ninth-grade science project still have the steel. I use it back then.

00:05:41.550 –> 00:05:52.890 Dave Angel: You know, I had an old-timer that taught me how to do it. I always thought back then and you know when these guys are going with these old-timers gone moonshine, it goes with them. And I want to make sure I can carry it on

00:05:53.970 –> 00:06:08.220 Dave Angel: It will always be there. There are people that they still doing it, there always will be, you know, generations of people that are working with their grandparents and their parents still making you know it’s a different model, a different

00:06:09.600 –> 00:06:12.960 Dave Angel: Market than it was probably in the 30s, but it still lives on.

00:06:13.920 –> 00:06:19.200 Joseph McElroy: Yeah, yeah. So, so you went off in the world for a little while. Right.

00:06:20.310 –> 00:06:26.760 Dave Angel: I didn’t actually have a corporate career. I worked there on 42nd Street, a lot. I worked for Pfizer for one point.

00:06:27.990 –> 00:06:37.260 Dave Angel: Love my corporate career took me a lot of places. I live in China for three years. A human resources business development were the kinds of things I focused on

00:06:38.280 –> 00:06:47.370 Dave Angel: A few years ago, it came time to come back home. I think we all end up falling our roots back to where they started at some point, my parents needed me here. My wife is from our hometown.

00:06:48.060 –> 00:06:55.380 Dave Angel: And it was just time to reinvent myself. They didn’t have the kinds of roles that I was doing back in Haywood County, North Carolina.

00:06:55.680 –> 00:06:58.290 Joseph McElroy: Yeah, so you know I think that

00:06:59.520 –> 00:07:07.200 Joseph McElroy: One of the things that you learned about and I think the audience would really like to know about is, you know, what is the moonshine.

00:07:08.760 –> 00:07:14.430 Dave Angel: Yeah, that’s a good question I get asked that all the time when people come to the distillery and we’re trying different products will say, well,

00:07:14.850 –> 00:07:19.380 Dave Angel: What made this moonshine, or what about the last one is specific to the moonshine recipe.

00:07:20.130 –> 00:07:32.400 Dave Angel: Technically moonshine is anything you don’t pay taxes on. So Vince rums from Jamaica of its vodka from overseas. You know, if you’re not paying taxes on it. That’s legal. What makes it moonshine.

00:07:33.120 –> 00:07:40.080 Dave Angel: Oh, what do you see. Yeah. What you see on TV when you watch it in the movies and, you know, the old guys by the steel back in the woods.

00:07:40.530 –> 00:07:47.490 Dave Angel: That’s typically a knockoff version of whiskey. A lot of times they’ll call it whiskey. They’ll say it’s a corn whiskey. Well, technically.

00:07:47.910 –> 00:07:56.730 Dave Angel: If whiskey is alcohol distilled from grain and if you watch TV. They’re always pouring bags of sugar into the steel.

00:07:57.210 –> 00:08:11.310 Dave Angel: Well, when you put sugar in it. It’s no longer whiskey. It’s a knockoff version. So that’s what most people think I was moonshine if you see it on the label at a distillery. It’s just a funny word a label they get that’s legal stuff taxes paid. It’s all good.

00:08:12.060 –> 00:08:19.560 Joseph McElroy: Right, so, um, you know, they that you saw in the mountains. They made mostly made corn. Right. Corn, corn.

00:08:20.670 –> 00:08:31.770 Joseph McElroy: corn whiskey corn moonshine right yeah by the way moonshine is actually what they called they called it in Gaelic back in the old country so

00:08:32.190 –> 00:08:41.760 Joseph McElroy: Then that particular term actually comes from Scotland, you know, for calling the this, this, because, you know, I guess people made by the moon shining and night, but

00:08:42.060 –> 00:08:46.830 Dave Angel: The Scotch and Irish that brought it you know they were the ones that knew how to do it. So when it, when it became a

00:08:47.100 –> 00:08:51.180 Dave Angel: You know, as a way of survival for a lot of people. I don’t know that people necessarily went into it to be.

00:08:51.510 –> 00:09:01.470 Dave Angel: distilleries back in the 1920s. It was survival. Times were hard and they knew that was something they could turn to pay bills and it was a scotch and Irish that knew how to do it, brought it with them.

00:09:01.890 –> 00:09:03.630 Joseph McElroy: Right, yeah. And

00:09:04.800 –> 00:09:12.180 Joseph McElroy: DIDN’T, DIDN’T, DIDN’T for a long time. It was actually sort of an honorable profession back in the mountains. Right.

00:09:13.350 –> 00:09:13.860 Dave Angel: Oh, yeah.

00:09:15.030 –> 00:09:15.390 Joseph McElroy: Yeah.

00:09:15.420 –> 00:09:17.130 Dave Angel: And then, yes, definitely was.

00:09:17.520 –> 00:09:21.570 Joseph McElroy: And then it was like when they’re like taxes came in that sort of changed everything.

00:09:23.010 –> 00:09:32.640 Dave Angel: That is that is our happy taxes have always been history, a lot of people when they think of whiskey and they think of American whiskey. They think of Bourbon from Kentucky.

00:09:33.150 –> 00:09:48.360 Dave Angel: The biggest reason whiskeys and Kentucky was because Pennsylvania started taxing it when the industry was in Pennsylvania, and they said, we don’t have to pay taxes in Pennsylvania will move somewhere else and they moved to Kentucky because of that midway between New York and New Orleans.

00:09:49.290 –> 00:10:08.040 Joseph McElroy: Well, you know, there’s an in the late you know 1790s, you know, the George Washington had to suit back up and lead an army. I think he was in the Pennsylvania area because the federal government tried to make revenue by installing a whiskey tax and we had something called the Whiskey Rebellion.

00:10:08.580 –> 00:10:12.390 Dave Angel: Yes. Well, I said the Whiskey Rebellion led to move into Kentucky.

00:10:12.900 –> 00:10:24.750 Joseph McElroy: Yeah, yeah. So, so that’s kind of interesting. Yeah, so, um, so the other thing that I thought was interesting, you know, and it’s not often talked about

00:10:25.080 –> 00:10:35.820 Joseph McElroy: And I remember this is things like Applejack and stuff like that is moonshine can is actually can be made out of a lot of different fruits and it’s actually considered brandy. Right.

00:10:36.750 –> 00:10:46.140 Dave Angel: Yeah. So I started many of whiskey is alcohol distilled from grain brandy is alcohol distilled from fruit. So that’s the purest answer. But again, when it

00:10:46.440 –> 00:10:57.660 Dave Angel: When it came to be made in the Smokies back in the 30s, they’d make a corn mash with some apple in it and they call it up apple brandy, but it had a lot of corn-based alcohol in it.

00:10:58.410 –> 00:11:04.800 Joseph McElroy: So it was a high alcohol count brandy is more likely got some sort of other got some sort of whiskey in it.

00:11:05.280 –> 00:11:12.870 Dave Angel: Exactly like if it’s coming from the woods moonshine, or even today moonshiners will tell you about the Randy, but it always starts with important sugar.

00:11:13.530 –> 00:11:23.070 Joseph McElroy: Ah, interesting is that while I am you see these craft beers made and they have sort of fruits and stuff and a lot of times they have a pretty high alcohol count.

00:11:24.150 –> 00:11:32.670 Dave Angel: Yeah, that’s a lot of times, that is how it is for Beer. Beer has made such a huge transformation from the days of Bud and Miller.

00:11:33.030 –> 00:11:39.180 Dave Angel: What we have today. Yeah. Millennials. They expect 42 beers at the bar, they don’t expect three choices and

00:11:39.690 –> 00:11:48.420 Dave Angel: It will always be that way. And you’re seeing that kind of innovation now happening in distilleries the same thing. People want variety. They want to see the

00:11:48.810 –> 00:11:56.730 Dave Angel: Most people would you say keen while whiskey and they’re like, what you can make you can make a keen while whiskey, for sure. It’s not bad.

00:11:58.200 –> 00:12:05.220 Joseph McElroy: Now, do people still, you know, do people still make moonshine and stuff in the mountains. I mean, you know,

00:12:07.380 –> 00:12:12.810 Joseph McElroy: Brandi I’m. That’s what I’m wondering. I actually want some of that Brandy, they still do that they

00:12:12.900 –> 00:12:18.930 Dave Angel: They do you know our distillery elevated mountain distilling company. We’re based in Maggie Valley, North Carolina.

00:12:19.500 –> 00:12:27.150 Dave Angel: A lot of people will probably talk some about popcorn Sutton at some point during the hour, but that’s the birthplace of a legendary mentioning popcorn.

00:12:27.600 –> 00:12:35.250 Dave Angel: Yeah, I tell people all time. I’m one of three or four distilleries and Maggie. Now I’m just wondering, to get to walk in and see the steel, but there are still people

00:12:35.880 –> 00:12:47.910 Dave Angel: I had my, my first year there. I had a came in one day. And there was a bag sitting out front. And I thought, what’s that about is right before the holidays and some

00:12:48.390 –> 00:12:57.240 Dave Angel: Local moonshine or left me a jar of apple pie moonshine, he had made in those a note in there that just said you’ve done more for marketing my business and anybody. I just want to say

00:13:01.050 –> 00:13:08.820 Joseph McElroy: Well yeah that’s pretty good. My, my, my dad used to tell me the movement of popcorn center would meet him at the Maggie, Maggie restaurant.

00:13:09.240 –> 00:13:19.530 Joseph McElroy: And talk to him about things. He might need and then try to convince them to do it. And every once in a while he takes one of the things that he needs to be done and does it and then needs to get paid moonshine.

00:13:21.030 –> 00:13:32.220 Joseph McElroy: Now, it was a part that is still part of life. I’m sure it is. You know, I, you know, I’ve, I’ve noticed a few cans of moonshine around everyone so

00:13:32.610 –> 00:13:43.440 Joseph McElroy: Like in the last few years. So it’s always there. So when we come back we’re gonna talk about how risky is made and the history of legal distilling. All right.

00:16:12.660 –> 00:16:15.660 Joseph McElroy: Howdy. This is a Joseph Franklyn McElroy back with my guest

00:16:16.680 –> 00:16:23.520 Joseph McElroy: Dave Angel and we’re on the gateway to the Smokies podcasts, the whiskey and moonshine edition.

00:16:24.900 –> 00:16:26.430 Joseph McElroy: Glad to have you back. Dave

00:16:27.360 –> 00:16:29.250 Dave Angel: Glad to be here. Thanks for having me.

00:16:29.550 –> 00:16:37.860 Joseph McElroy: You’re so we were talking about whiskey. So you go and give us a little education on how whisky is me because I think is pretty interesting.

00:16:38.880 –> 00:16:48.870 Dave Angel: Yeah, I’ll keep it at a high level. First, yeah. I said a couple of times out whiskey is alcohol distilled from grain well before you can distill it, you have to ferment it

00:16:49.980 –> 00:16:56.610 Dave Angel: Beer is really where whiskey starts beers alcohol has been from it from grain. If you go to local breweries are taken.

00:16:57.090 –> 00:17:00.960 Dave Angel: Usually, it’s barley but some other thing you know rye or some other grains.

00:17:01.350 –> 00:17:12.480 Dave Angel: They add yeast to it it ferments for a few days and then you’re drinking the beer, what in the whiskey world you’re taking that beer, lot of people call it MASH, it’s really the same thing.

00:17:12.870 –> 00:17:26.040 Dave Angel: I always call it a mash on TV because I never call it beer confuse the audience on TV. It’s always mashed but imagine a beer. The same thing, you take that mash you put it into steel yeah heated up

00:17:26.880 –> 00:17:31.740 Dave Angel: Everything has a different boiling point. So everybody knows water boils at 212 degrees Fahrenheit.

00:17:32.550 –> 00:17:50.070 Dave Angel: whiskey or alcohol ethanol distills that 174 degrees, it boils at 174 degrees. So you want to eat that up to 174 degrees and the alcohol, the whiskey will start coming out the water stays in the pot and you just separate it out and you get whiskey.

00:17:50.700 –> 00:18:01.980 Joseph McElroy: Mm-hmm. What is the art there and they’re an art because I was reading it? Some people can make good moonshine or whiskey and some people can make awful moonshine doing the same sort of process where we are.

00:18:03.180 –> 00:18:13.230 Dave Angel: The art just sort of went through a pure science answer, but there’s definitely an art to it. I would you make whiskey. You hear people talking about heads hearts and tails.

00:18:13.650 –> 00:18:18.120 Dave Angel: So again, everything has a different temperature, it turns the steam and comes out.

00:18:18.600 –> 00:18:29.310 Dave Angel: heads are the first chemicals that heat up and come out of the steel around 130 435 degrees you get chemicals, the big ones are acetone methanol.

00:18:29.580 –> 00:18:34.590 Dave Angel: They smell like painting or they are fingernail polish remover. That’s exactly where your

00:18:34.980 –> 00:18:43.410 Dave Angel: fingernail polish remover comes from an ethanol plant somewhere in the Midwest, or when you go to the gas station. It says this gas contains up to 10% ethanol.

00:18:43.830 –> 00:18:51.540 Dave Angel: Typically 192 proof vodka. That’s what they’re talking about and the same plant. They’re making that they’re getting acetone out of that corn.

00:18:52.080 –> 00:19:03.780 Dave Angel: For fingernail polish remover. But those are toxic chemicals that come out first and you clearly want to get those out of the product. You don’t want any asked the toner methanol at all and your product just wouldn’t be safe.

00:19:04.050 –> 00:19:07.050 Joseph McElroy: Is that why Chinese would kill people with their moonshine.

00:19:07.380 –> 00:19:16.140 Dave Angel: It is. That’s one of you hear that you hear lead poisoning today solder doesn’t have lead in so it’s pretty safe today. But back in the old days.

00:19:16.530 –> 00:19:24.780 Dave Angel: You know if you’re trying to just make money. You weren’t worried about quality, we’re worried about making money. So that’s a whole different market back then.

00:19:25.680 –> 00:19:34.890 Dave Angel: But yeah, acetone methanol, they can ask them, and a mess it all makes you go blind you hear about bad moonshine making people go blind, it’s because they didn’t do a good clean cut upfront.

00:19:36.300 –> 00:19:39.960 Dave Angel: Once that stuff comes out of the steel right behind. It’s the whiskey.

00:19:40.560 –> 00:19:53.220 Dave Angel: And if you’re paying attention. We have a 920 gallons steel, we can really get a sense of, you can just smell that acetone just drifting off and also this whiskey smell comes in and you know your end of the good stuff.

00:19:53.670 –> 00:20:00.420 Dave Angel: And when in doubt, we let it flow another minute, just make sure we get the heads out of there. But then comes the whiskey.

00:20:00.930 –> 00:20:11.460 Dave Angel: Well, the purest alcohol of the ethanol, which would also be Vodka. Vodka is the cleanest of the hearts. It’s right in the center of pure ethanol.

00:20:12.090 –> 00:20:21.420 Dave Angel: Was as it’s flowing out. You can imagine there are all these other chemicals that have different boiling points and so few other chemicals come out with the ethanol.

00:20:21.780 –> 00:20:26.820 Dave Angel: And they add different flavors and textures to it when we’re instilling I you know

00:20:27.660 –> 00:20:35.280 Dave Angel: It takes. It’s an all-day process when we do a final run on our whiskey. It’s about 20 hours. It’s a long day of work.

00:20:35.730 –> 00:20:39.990 Dave Angel: But throughout the day we’re sipping little bits coming off the steel to see what it tastes like.

00:20:40.470 –> 00:20:45.030 Dave Angel: The all day long. It might end up being a shot of alcohol. It’s not a lot just enough to waste your time. So what it tastes like.

00:20:45.510 –> 00:21:03.540 Dave Angel: But the whiskey goes through a buttery phase where it tastes like alcohol and butter and then it’ll go through this lemongrass phase. And again, those are just other little chemicals that are turned into steam and coming out with the ethanol, the alcohol at some point, though.

00:21:04.830 –> 00:21:11.670 Dave Angel: You start getting what are called tales. So tales are like, I like to tell people it’s like salt on a french fry.

00:21:11.970 –> 00:21:17.190 Dave Angel: You want a few tales to give us some seasoning. But if you put too much salt on your french fries, you end up running them.

00:21:17.610 –> 00:21:26.160 Dave Angel: And it’s the same thing with tells and that’s really the art of making whiskey right there. How many tells do I let in there it goes a little bit of a full-bodied bitter taste.

00:21:26.580 –> 00:21:37.200 Dave Angel: The too much of it. I’ll send it tastes like an unripe squash zucchini and you don’t want that to ever happen to your whiskey. Because once it’s in there. You can’t take it out. So the arts, making those kinds of judgments of

00:21:37.740 –> 00:21:43.410 Dave Angel: When, when to make those cuts, how to make those cuts to get the final flavor. He wanted

00:21:43.680 –> 00:21:51.240 Joseph McElroy: So, and so you when you’re taking the ones coming out, you actually separated into vodka and whiskey and something else.

00:21:52.140 –> 00:22:04.890 Dave Angel: Well, no, it all cut it was either making whiskey or making vodka. But when you’re making whiskey. It goes through these different phases and there is an element of that sort of pure alcohol, which would probably be a vodka phase.

00:22:05.700 –> 00:22:10.830 Dave Angel: But we’re not you don’t cut vodka whiskey when you make vodca you’re making a whole different product.

00:22:11.010 –> 00:22:11.610 Joseph McElroy: So same

00:22:11.670 –> 00:22:12.870 Dave Angel: Basic process.

00:22:12.900 –> 00:22:21.420 Joseph McElroy: How the market gets mixed into the whiskey. So you keep the vodka and then you, you make and then the whiskey mixes with it or you

00:22:21.480 –> 00:22:25.200 Dave Angel: Get essentially all those other chemicals with the vodka makes whiskey.

00:22:25.560 –> 00:22:26.370 Joseph McElroy: I see the

00:22:27.090 –> 00:22:33.390 Dave Angel: Vodka. Vodka has no smell or taste to it. The smell or taste of whiskey and that’s pure ethanol.

00:22:33.930 –> 00:22:45.900 Dave Angel: The smell and taste of whiskey or all these other chemicals that come through and you preserve them in the alcohol you keep them in alcohol that’s probably a better word to say and collectively they give you the taste of whiskey.

00:22:46.260 –> 00:22:54.510 Joseph McElroy: So, so basically vodka is a whatever a whiskey that’s got a long tail.

00:22:55.800 –> 00:23:05.730 Dave Angel: Um, well, it’s I’ll give you a pure answer vodka whiskey, so there are rules around the sheet. You know, again, when you’re a moonshine or you just make it

00:23:06.330 –> 00:23:23.610 Dave Angel: You’re making it legally there are rules, you have to follow whiskey cannot come out of the steel over 160 proof. That’s 80% alcohol. So when it’s 80% alcohol or lower. There’s got to be other chemicals in there and that’s what gives whiskey its flavor.

00:23:23.940 –> 00:23:31.380 Dave Angel: As vodka legally has to come out of the steel 190 proof which means is 95% alcohol.

00:23:31.530 –> 00:23:39.600 Dave Angel: Wow, so there’s very little room for other chemicals in there and that’s why it has no taste because alcohol has no taste.

00:23:39.990 –> 00:23:49.200 Joseph McElroy: Okay, cool. Interesting. So these the old-time moonshiners having to deal with this. They essentially did it by taste as well, they’re

00:23:49.230 –> 00:23:51.150 Joseph McElroy: The ones that really good. Yeah.

00:23:51.180 –> 00:23:58.110 Dave Angel: Yeah, they did, you know, I’ve had a lot of fun, especially in the first couple of years, we were running, we had a lot of local moonshiners that would come in, they’d want to see the

00:23:58.590 –> 00:24:11.610 Dave Angel: The fancy distillery of what it was that it was different from them and most moonshiners you know they they they didn’t read a book on how to do this. They didn’t go to school to how to do this, daddy taught him or granddaddy time

00:24:12.690 –> 00:24:26.700 Dave Angel: So I’ve had some really interesting conversations with a moonshine, or they’ll say, you know, I knew at this point I was supposed to do something different, but it was just because that he told me to. I never really understood why I was doing that. Now, I understand that.

00:24:28.020 –> 00:24:34.230 Joseph McElroy: You know I’ve heard some moonshiners talk to and they always talked about, you know, finding a place they were looking for soft water. What does that mean,

00:24:35.340 –> 00:24:40.620 Dave Angel: So soft water. It’s so soft and hard water if it’s really hard. It

00:24:42.510 –> 00:24:48.990 Dave Angel: If it’s too hard to water. It’s different. It’s just as different chemistry to it’s in soft water.

00:24:50.340 –> 00:25:01.110 Dave Angel: People who have hard water. If you take a shower takes forever to rinse off the soap just won’t rinse off of you and hard water that’s why they make water softening systems to

00:25:01.470 –> 00:25:08.040 Dave Angel: Make the water software that’s one of the benefits of soft water is it, it runs in there. So it actually does have a different feel and reaction to it.

00:25:08.520 –> 00:25:19.020 Dave Angel: And so you do want to good soft water. You want a good mineral base in your water. A lot of times you hear people talk about limestone water that’s gone to limestone.

00:25:20.100 –> 00:25:31.650 Dave Angel: I would tell you one of the big reasons I’m in the Smoky Mountains anywhere from I’ll say Knoxville to Asheville the water and the Great Smoky Mountains, that part of the Blue Ridge is just fabulous.

00:25:32.040 –> 00:25:33.270 Dave Angel: And you give water so

00:25:34.620 –> 00:25:37.170 Joseph McElroy: They bought the water and so good. Yeah.

00:25:38.100 –> 00:25:48.570 Dave Angel: Yep. Maggie, Maggie Valley was in Haywood County, North Carolina. We have the highest average elevation of any county east of the Rockies. And what that means is water flows downhill.

00:25:48.840 –> 00:26:02.280 Dave Angel: And there’s no water that comes up in a wood County. So all of our water starts right there. I can literally go out the front door of the distillery and I can point to the water-rock knob and five top mountains. That’s where my water comes from those two mountain peaks.

00:26:02.910 –> 00:26:13.020 Joseph McElroy: So I guess that probably made you want to do. Zoom why to come back and create a distillery in the mountains as well being at home. But what is the story of how you created elevated distillery?

00:26:14.130 –> 00:26:18.720 Dave Angel: Well, yeah, there were a lot of reasons me definitely coming back home, but I could have just as easily live

00:26:19.080 –> 00:26:31.110 Dave Angel: You know, a couple of hours away somewhere else and got the satisfaction of being home why really chose Maggie Valley ones that water that we just talked about. You just can’t beat it, and the water is so pure in Haywood County.

00:26:32.130 –> 00:26:46.260 Dave Angel: Our water Maggie drops from 6000 feet down to the base at 3000 feet of the valley. It’s not traveled more than a mile and a half before it gets. I mean, it’s just good clean pure unadulterated water.

00:26:46.770 –> 00:26:53.520 Dave Angel: You know, we also have this history adventure Pop Sutton two or three times. He is America’s most legendary moonshine or

00:26:54.510 –> 00:27:03.000 Dave Angel: He is the stories and the history of folklore that comes with him. I get asked about him every day. So people come to Maggie Valley.

00:27:03.450 –> 00:27:16.170 Dave Angel: Looking for moonshine. They’re looking for that history and heritage, we, we get people, you know, the beverage industry as a whole is big and Western or Asheville 20 minutes away is a major beer hub for the whole East

00:27:16.170 –> 00:27:16.710 Coast.

00:27:18.300 –> 00:27:20.220 Joseph McElroy: When did you create elevated distillery.

00:27:20.940 –> 00:27:24.090 Dave Angel: We’ve, we’ve been fully operational three and a half years.

00:27:24.390 –> 00:27:29.370 Dave Angel: And we had a year, year of renovation and building out our building before that.

00:27:29.610 –> 00:27:36.090 Joseph McElroy: It wasn’t hard getting it harder to get approval was easier as the culture of the mountains made it seem acceptable.

00:27:36.960 –> 00:27:38.070 Dave Angel: Yeah, it’s, you know, they’re

00:27:39.150 –> 00:27:50.220 Dave Angel: On the legal side just talk there minute there are permits, you have to get a federal permit, you have to get a state permit. It’s all about paying taxes. That’s mainly what it’s about making sure they that your register and pay in taxes.

00:27:50.820 –> 00:27:56.880 Dave Angel: But yeah, when it comes to culture and where you’re going to put that’s a sensitive topic to some communities.

00:27:57.660 –> 00:28:13.140 Dave Angel: I knew Maggie had a long history of moonshining. I knew there were moonshiners there. I mean, that’s where I grew up. I knew that it was open. I didn’t know how well-received, it would be as far as a legal distillery overall I’ve been very welcome.

00:28:13.590 –> 00:28:18.360 Joseph McElroy: Good. Well, you know, Maggie Valley got a real authentic mountain culture still so

00:28:18.630 –> 00:28:27.150 Joseph McElroy: Yes. Yeah, I’m assuming there’s both welcoming and probably some resistance because it also has a very religious.

00:28:28.350 –> 00:28:38.520 Joseph McElroy: culture as well. But, you know, you got it, you got it created so that’s great, then yeah, we’ll talk about some of the things you’re doing for the community. And just a little bit.

00:28:39.690 –> 00:28:45.600 Joseph McElroy: Right now we’re going to head off to another break and we’ll come back and we’ll talk about your products and, you know, and

00:28:46.620 –> 00:28:47.640 Joseph McElroy: Other things you’re doing

00:28:48.690 –> 00:28:49.260 Dave Angel: Sounds good.

00:28:55.800 –> 00:28:56.010 And

00:31:09.240 –> 00:31:24.930 Joseph McElroy: Howdy. This is Joseph Franklyn McElroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcast. with the whiskey and a moonshine episode with me is Dave Angel owner of the elevated the mountain distillery and Maggie Valley, North Carolina. Hey Dave

00:31:25.440 –> 00:31:26.670 Dave Angel: So hey y’all.

00:31:27.090 –> 00:31:36.810 Joseph McElroy: So we were talking about your, your distillery. What kind of, what kind of places it what do people experience when they come there.

00:31:38.580 –> 00:31:49.230 Dave Angel: Well, we do all kinds of things. So first and foremost, we’re a distillery. We’re very proud of the be a distillery to the products we make. We’ve got award-winning products and the three and a half years were there.

00:31:49.830 –> 00:32:03.630 Dave Angel: We make a vodka called hurricane Creek. We’ve got a corn whiskey straight off the steel White Lightning version of it moonshine version if you will. And we also have a three-year barrel-aged version called purchase knob.

00:32:04.260 –> 00:32:09.960 Dave Angel: We’re about to release a bourbon called water right now it’s three and a half years has been sitting in the barrel and it’s super good.

00:32:10.410 –> 00:32:13.050 Dave Angel: But then we have some flavor products to we have shining rock.

00:32:13.950 –> 00:32:25.380 Dave Angel: Brand of moon shines. We got a blackberry strawberry apple pie and peach pie. And then we have one product. It’s we call it root beer white lightning. It’s named after Raymond Fairchild, the only

00:32:25.740 –> 00:32:33.780 Dave Angel: five-time world champion banjo player in history from right there and Maggie Valley, North Carolina. So we celebrate his music heritage as well.

00:32:34.260 –> 00:32:40.230 Dave Angel: So we have a lot of products if you come to the distillery during the day. Most people come and they want to do a tour of the distillery.

00:32:40.560 –> 00:32:50.670 Dave Angel: They want to see the place they have questions, they want to and ask and have answered, you know, we try to tell them what we can be as transparent about that we walk you through making whiskey.

00:32:51.270 –> 00:33:01.320 Dave Angel: We have samples of our products. We got a big steals 920 gallons. It’s a beast. So, you know, people are fascinated say that doesn’t look like what you’d say in the backwoods

00:33:02.160 –> 00:33:09.600 Dave Angel: As the night as we move into Night, especially Thursday, Friday, Saturday nights where music venue. One of the best places you can go

00:33:10.170 –> 00:33:19.980 Dave Angel: To catch the live music typically karaoke on Thursdays Friday nights tend to be more alternative music alternative. I mean, blues,

00:33:20.460 –> 00:33:35.130 Dave Angel: Bluegrass, that kind of thing. Saturday nights tend to be more big band big party kind of music we generate some big crowds in our place and love to have fun with the folks that come out. We have a full bar of beer, wine, and cocktails that we offer.

00:33:36.180 –> 00:33:49.590 Dave Angel: So it depends. It depends on what you’re looking for. We’ve got that nightlife atmosphere. We’ve also got a how it’s made production atmosphere to the party was it a business up front party in the back. And it’s sort of that kind of a mindset.

00:33:49.680 –> 00:33:55.050 Joseph McElroy: Well, I remember going there and you got a wonderful front area that

00:33:56.250 –> 00:34:13.950 Joseph McElroy: Sort of a gift shop right with lots of interesting artifacts of the mountains and also you know the standard museum fair for T-shirts and stuff like that. But the books and jugs and glasses and all sorts of stuff right

00:34:14.490 –> 00:34:17.580 Dave Angel: We do you know a lot of and I learned that from some of the other

00:34:18.390 –> 00:34:26.280 Dave Angel: The distilling industry is a small-knit group of people. So we’re always helping each other out because we want to see each other survive and be successful.

00:34:26.760 –> 00:34:33.630 Dave Angel: But I heard that from any place. Make sure you get some good T-shirts because some people come to buy booze. Some just want a teacher to say, I was there.

00:34:33.840 –> 00:34:34.680 Dave Angel: Yeah, there’s a lot of

00:34:34.770 –> 00:34:42.360 Joseph McElroy: truth to that. And then, then you go through some doors and you go into this big wide open space, right, then you can see this giant

00:34:43.650 –> 00:34:47.010 Joseph McElroy: That. So I guess or distilling yeah yeah

00:34:47.100 –> 00:34:52.620 Dave Angel: Yeah, our place used to be a dinner theater. So we’ve actually got a little bit of a slope to the floor.

00:34:52.920 –> 00:35:08.010 Dave Angel: And where the stage once was, we now we’ve removed the status of steel actually sits in the basement under the stage. So it’s partially below you, and partially stilted the tallest part of the sales 23 feet. So it still towers way over you. But what

00:35:09.180 –> 00:35:16.710 Dave Angel: I will say when you walk in, there’s a barrel rack on both sides. Obviously, it really does feel like you’re going in. I mean, you know, when you walk in the doors. You went into a distillery.

00:35:17.070 –> 00:35:18.720 Joseph McElroy: And it smells incredible. Right.

00:35:19.860 –> 00:35:29.370 Dave Angel: Yes, it does. Every day, even when we’re not producing there’s just so much alcohol in there from what’s in barrels and a little bit seeps out of barrels every day and it just gives a great smell of the place.

00:35:30.000 –> 00:35:33.240 Joseph McElroy: Now do you you you buy your barrels from somewhere else. Right.

00:35:34.170 –> 00:35:37.680 Dave Angel: We do we’ve bought from a couple of different places.

00:35:38.610 –> 00:35:48.420 Dave Angel: Yeah, when the distilling industry took off the craft distilling industry you know 10 years ago you went to Kentucky went to Napa Valley. That’s where barrels were made in America.

00:35:48.900 –> 00:35:59.340 Dave Angel: Now there are barrel Makers, All over the southeast. We work with one out of Bristol, Virginia, about two hours away. They’re, they’re very close to us. It’s easy to run up against some if we need them.

00:36:00.630 –> 00:36:06.810 Dave Angel: But yeah, it’s, it’s, that’s a big part of its when you walk into the look and feel of barrels that what they do.

00:36:07.260 –> 00:36:22.680 Dave Angel: A lot of people don’t realize whiskey comes off a steel clear all alcohol, pretty much comes off the steel clear when you put it in a barrel a whiskey barrels made out of American wide. Oh, it’s char burned on the inside. It’s that burnt layer of wood that turns the whiskey brown

00:36:23.190 –> 00:36:26.280 Joseph McElroy: Oh, interesting, is it affecting the effects of taste to write

00:36:26.730 –> 00:36:31.710 Dave Angel: It does about 60% of a whiskies flavor is going to come from that chart barrel.

00:36:32.130 –> 00:36:38.460 Joseph McElroy: Hmm. And what’s different from, say, Tennessee whiskey from your whiskey. Is there any, are

00:36:39.180 –> 00:36:42.540 Dave Angel: There is Tennessee whiskey has to be made, Tennessee.

00:36:43.590 –> 00:36:46.650 Dave Angel: It is. That’s the biggest criteria to it, they

00:36:47.670 –> 00:37:03.570 Dave Angel: They would get mad at me in Tennessee for saying this but Tennessee whiskey as bourbon, that’s them pour through a chart Maple wood filter that gives it a sweeter maple note and they say, because of that, it’s no longer bourbon is Tennessee whiskey.

00:37:03.930 –> 00:37:05.580 Dave Angel: I don’t like you to call it bourbon upfront.

00:37:05.580 –> 00:37:07.410 Dave Angel: They just wanted to talk about Tennessee whiskey.

00:37:07.440 –> 00:37:09.450 Joseph McElroy: What’s the difference between bourbon and whiskey.

00:37:10.440 –> 00:37:14.610 Dave Angel: So, good question. Bourbon I’ll blow some people’s minds here.

00:37:14.970 –> 00:37:27.060 Dave Angel: Bourbon is whiskey bourbon and scotch or both whiskies I get that settled on my service Scotch bourbon whiskey Scott has to be made in Scotland bourbon has to be made in America does not have to be made in Kentucky has to be made in America.

00:37:27.540 –> 00:37:35.040 Dave Angel: Bourbon has to be at least 51% corn has to be aged in a brand new chart American white oak barrel.

00:37:35.520 –> 00:37:48.120 Dave Angel: So once that barrels are used you can no longer bourbon back in it. It’s been used for bourbon, the first and only time the biggest buyer bourbon barrels are the Scots and Irish Scotch whisky Irish whiskey all go and use bourbon barrels.

00:37:48.780 –> 00:37:53.520 Joseph McElroy: And interesting and why would Tennessee make bourbon first and then convert it into whiskey.

00:37:54.060 –> 00:38:03.450 Dave Angel: It’s just the process they use the brand new charred American wine barrel most Tennessee Bert most Tennessee whiskey is or 75 to 85% corn.

00:38:03.720 –> 00:38:18.780 Dave Angel: So, and it’s made America at least 51% corny, but in that brand new barrel, it’s legally a bourbon. They go that extra step to say, well, we’re going to char, we’re going to run it through a charred maple filter and that transforms it into Tennessee whiskey.

00:38:20.880 –> 00:38:23.040 Dave Angel: It’s all about marketing. It really is.

00:38:23.910 –> 00:38:27.600 Joseph McElroy: Yours is not a brand new Mar barrel you get age barrels in

00:38:27.750 –> 00:38:34.320 Dave Angel: Right, we will we get both. We have bourbon that we have not released yet. It’s super good at sitting in a barrel.

00:38:35.040 –> 00:38:45.990 Dave Angel: You know what I learned from other places. I’d love to tell you everything I do is my own creation but you know give a shout out to Maker’s Mark they barrel whiskey at 111 proof most distilleries

00:38:46.590 –> 00:39:04.530 Dave Angel: Barrel bourbon and the hundred and 20 125 proof range by lowering that closer to what you’re actually want to drink, you get a more intense bourbon flavor. And that sounds good to me when I tour Maker’s Mark and we barrel-aged whiskey or bourbon at 110 111 proof.

00:39:04.980 –> 00:39:07.080 Joseph McElroy: And it’s got an intense whiskey flavor. Yeah, I remember

00:39:07.080 –> 00:39:18.450 Joseph McElroy: That yeah it’s got remember when we went to, to the ABC store, they were you know they recommended it. When you are they actually recommended when somebody was asking for, you know, pretty intense flavor. So that’s good.

00:39:18.450 –> 00:39:19.680 Dave Angel: Yeah, good.

00:39:19.860 –> 00:39:29.490 Joseph McElroy: Yeah, so, so, um, so, what kind of competition friend cooperators do you have in the region distilleries

00:39:30.390 –> 00:39:35.280 Dave Angel: Oh, there’s several and I rely on a lot of like they come to me with questions.

00:39:35.700 –> 00:39:45.090 Dave Angel: When people come to the Smokies or to western North Carolina, you tend to do one of two things, either come in Asheville, North Carolina. We have a lot of people to go to Asheville

00:39:45.390 –> 00:39:53.430 Dave Angel: Going to see the Biltmore House that when a tour of the breweries. There are two or three distilleries there h&h distilling how many good friends of mine, they

00:39:54.120 –> 00:40:02.790 Dave Angel: Actually was talking with them. Just this week with. There’s also add a Ryan, there are the chemists. Those are great distilleries over in the Asheville area.

00:40:03.240 –> 00:40:12.600 Dave Angel: People tend to visit them and then we’re their day outside of Asheville, they come up to Maggie Valley, we, we like to brag you, Maggie. Where are the mountains of Asheville, North Carolina, because

00:40:12.990 –> 00:40:17.280 Dave Angel: Nationals in a big base and you have to leave Asheville to get to the mountains and they come to Maggie Valley.

00:40:17.910 –> 00:40:22.740 Dave Angel: The other big place people tend to go is the Gatlinburg Tennessee Pigeon Forge area.

00:40:23.250 –> 00:40:35.910 Dave Angel: A lot of people, when you say, Great Smoky Mountain National Park. They think Gatlinburg, Tennessee. I’ll tell you right upfront, the majority. The park is in North Carolina is not in Tennessee but Gatlinburg has done a great job of marketing.

00:40:35.910 –> 00:40:50.460 Dave Angel: That spot, but over a Gatlinburg Pigeon Forge or so there are 20 distilleries are the most visited distillery in the world. I’ll give him a shout out old smokey and Gatlinburg, Tennessee, something like 2 million people a year ago to Gatlinburg to see that distillery.

00:40:51.720 –> 00:40:55.380 Dave Angel: It’s, it’s, if you’ve ever been to Gatlinburg, you get that it’s a

00:40:56.250 –> 00:41:06.840 Dave Angel: Tourist. It’s a tourist destination for sure, but your old smokey sugar lands are a big one over there. I got a good friend who runs one called Old Forge and Pigeon Forge area.

00:41:08.130 –> 00:41:15.660 Dave Angel: There’s one junction 35 that I go check out I’m impressed by them. But where there’s literally 20 over there. But again, people that go

00:41:15.960 –> 00:41:25.830 Dave Angel: To Gatlinburg Pigeon Forge area, they want to go over the Great Smoky Mountain National Park to see the park that brings you to Maggie Valley, North Carolina, and so they see us as well.

00:41:26.370 –> 00:41:38.040 Joseph McElroy: Yeah, we used it. Well, that’s why I named the podcast gateway, the Smokies is Haywood County used to be called the gateway to the Smokies because, you know, that’s how you used to get together, people do to get to it. So yeah.

00:41:39.240 –> 00:41:50.220 Joseph McElroy: So I’m talking about distilleries. There’s also a lot of craft beverages is there, you know, beer, and even wine. Why is it so big in the smokies?

00:41:51.570 –> 00:42:00.000 Dave Angel: You know, it really comes back some I said earlier, it’s the water we have fabulous water in western North Carolina anywhere from Knoxville as well just incredible water.

00:42:00.420 –> 00:42:07.980 Dave Angel: The beer industry really picked up on that. It’s surprising, even the people that live in western North Carolina, but the biggest

00:42:08.460 –> 00:42:17.340 Dave Angel: The manufacturing industry in western Carolina is beer, wine, and spirits manufacturing and there’s something like 2500 people that work in breweries, wineries, and distilleries across

00:42:17.880 –> 00:42:29.310 Dave Angel: Western North Carolina, it’s it drives our agribusiness, it would surprise a lot of people with the most visited winery in America, it’s not Napa, and Sonoma. It’s in Asheville, North Carolina.

00:42:29.430 –> 00:42:30.180 Dave Angel: Is a little bit more

00:42:30.930 –> 00:42:31.410 Joseph McElroy: Yeah.

00:42:31.770 –> 00:42:41.850 Dave Angel: If the most visited winery in America. So we are we’re right there in the heart of all that was something like 35 maybe even 40 breweries Justin downtown Asheville

00:42:42.060 –> 00:42:49.470 Joseph McElroy: And and you know haven County is now starting to get a number of really good breweries there as well. Hey, Maggie has a brewery now.

00:42:49.560 –> 00:42:57.990 Dave Angel: Maggie has a brewery to bear waters and Maggie Valley there also. And can I have a bromance with these guys? I think the world of art and Kevin

00:42:58.740 –> 00:43:04.920 Dave Angel: They’re the owners of bear waters. They’re good buddies of mine. I do a lot with them. We make hand sanitizer together.

00:43:05.490 –> 00:43:10.620 Dave Angel: It’s we found ways to work together and doing some business which is a lot of fun when it’s fringe are working with

00:43:11.160 –> 00:43:19.590 Dave Angel: There’s frog level brewing in downtown Waynesville there’s boo jump brewing in downtown Waynesville we have a winery and Maggie Valley.

00:43:20.040 –> 00:43:37.770 Dave Angel: b&c winery. So yeah, we got a little Haywood County we got breweries. We got winery got distillery. We got a craft soda company Waynesville soda jerks. They’re super good. A lot of fruit-based sodas that they make. And we have some fabulous coffee shops to we’re, we’re in everything.

00:43:38.160 –> 00:43:46.290 Joseph McElroy: Yeah, so I mean it’s a great place to visit for you want that that craft beverage experience. In fact, I and Dave am talking about maybe doing a craft beverage festival

00:43:46.650 –> 00:43:47.130 Joseph McElroy: Well, so, yeah.

00:43:47.520 –> 00:43:48.990 Joseph McElroy: We’ll see, we’ll get that together.

00:43:50.040 –> 00:44:00.630 Joseph McElroy: But so right now we’re going to take another break and then we’re talking a little bit more about the moonshine history when we get back. I am a Smoky Mountains of North Carolina.

00:46:21.000 –> 00:46:27.570 Joseph McElroy: Hey this is Joseph McElroy back with the gateway to the Smokies podcast with my good friend Dave angel. Hey Dave

00:46:28.080 –> 00:46:28.710 Joseph McElroy: So, yeah.

00:46:29.430 –> 00:46:41.190 Joseph McElroy: So, uh, yeah. You mentioned popcorn suddenly, I think people would know anything, any knowledge of the moonshining at all know about popcorn set. And I think you got famous on the moon chatters TV show. Right.

00:46:42.090 –> 00:46:54.210 Dave Angel: hated the first few seasons. They talked about the popcorn and actually passed away before the show got started, they use a lot of footage of popcorn upfront. And I think that was a big key to the success of the show.

00:46:54.630 –> 00:46:57.540 Joseph McElroy: Yeah. What, what, why does popcorn so famous.

00:46:58.710 –> 00:47:08.610 Dave Angel: Yeah, he, he was a great moonshiner he was an excellent marketer. He knew how to put his stuff out there and to get it known

00:47:09.240 –> 00:47:21.450 Dave Angel: What really made him famous. He wasn’t a documentary called the last right and the last run was film and popcorn stop making his last run a moonshine.

00:47:21.930 –> 00:47:30.870 Dave Angel: It was filmed in 2002 for the next five or six years, people were desperately hoping to get a bottle that the last run and he always happen to have this a few jars sitting around

00:47:31.440 –> 00:47:37.830 Dave Angel: It was some of the best marketing that he ever did. But when that movie came out the last run at one to me.

00:47:40.350 –> 00:47:52.290 Dave Angel: From New York City to Miami. It was getting on the news on TV. It was that feel-good story on Friday night on the news today and Maggie Valley North Carolina Popcorn Sutton, and asked his last run of mood shining

00:47:52.650 –> 00:47:58.560 Dave Angel: And they called him the last of the rebels. It was great marketing. He knew how to get his name out there was stuff like that.

00:47:59.040 –> 00:48:06.720 Joseph McElroy: Oh, interesting. You know, it’s fairly tragic how you know he got in trouble at the end and signed to be an outlaw at the end of his own life, but

00:48:07.290 –> 00:48:09.660 Dave Angel: You know, he was a martyr for moonshine, he was

00:48:10.050 –> 00:48:24.780 Joseph McElroy: A he’s a martyr for moonshine. But yeah, there’s, there’s a little bit of controversy whether, you know, I remember a little bit of controversy about Tennessee trying to claim that popcorn Sutton was there, you know, I think he was in both places. Right.

00:48:24.810 –> 00:48:34.440 Dave Angel: He, he was in both places. It’s a, it’s an interesting story. You know, if you’re not familiar with we carry Maggie Valley, where we’re 20 miles on the interstate the

00:48:34.830 –> 00:48:39.030 Dave Angel: Tennessee border. I mean, as the crow flies were more like 10 miles. I guess maybe 12 miles.

00:48:39.690 –> 00:48:55.860 Dave Angel: But we’re right there on the border. He went back and forth between sort of the Cosby parents will Tennessee area Maggie Valley, North Carolina, he, you know, Simon about his marketing and you mentioned earlier the MaggieValley restaurant Popcorn drove a model, a four-track.

00:48:56.190 –> 00:49:06.870 Dave Angel: And if he asked him why he drove it so I’m down to Florida. Florida anything fancier and this it was marketing when he pulled into the campground at nine o’clock. It was like the ice cream truck pulled in.

00:49:08.130 –> 00:49:13.650 Dave Angel: All the moms and dads like popcorn here, get your money. Let’s go get a solution before he leaves you to know it was

00:49:14.490 –> 00:49:18.450 Joseph McElroy: A classic mountain man character. I’ll tell you what. Right.

00:49:18.480 –> 00:49:19.290 Dave Angel: He was

00:49:19.350 –> 00:49:19.530 He’s

00:49:20.670 –> 00:49:21.900 Joseph McElroy: Right behind you right

00:49:22.440 –> 00:49:28.440 Dave Angel: Well that’s, that’s him. Right. That’s a wood carving mount Mike’s whetstone and Maggie Valley, they carve this out for me, but that’s

00:49:28.440 –> 00:49:31.050 Dave Angel: Yeah, that’s a rendition of popcorn Sutton right there.

00:49:31.710 –> 00:49:34.710 Joseph McElroy: Yeah. So what do you think of that moonshiner’s TV show?

00:49:35.670 –> 00:49:42.390 Dave Angel: You know it’s a great show. I’m familiar. I know everybody on the show. They’ve all been at our place in February.

00:49:42.930 –> 00:49:50.070 Dave Angel: The last set. I don’t know what today is the last Saturday in February, from one to four almost the whole cast is going to be at the distillery.

00:49:50.850 –> 00:49:54.180 Dave Angel: They do a meet and greet the last Saturday, February with us every year.

00:49:54.540 –> 00:50:03.090 Dave Angel: Yeah. We get thousands of people that will go through the distillery. We’re, we’re limited because the coven how many can be in there. One time, but we’ll get them through and make sure they all get to me.

00:50:03.570 –> 00:50:08.910 Dave Angel: Their favorite moonshiners from the show but they all live right in and around Maggie Valley.

00:50:09.270 –> 00:50:14.280 Dave Angel: I see him all the time. We had Kelly Williams. Some of the show came up to listen to music with me Saturday night.

00:50:15.960 –> 00:50:19.710 Dave Angel: It’s, it’s interesting what it’s done to moonshine. So, you know, the moonshiners of the

00:50:20.160 –> 00:50:31.140 Dave Angel: 30s, 40s to you in the 60s and 70s. They weren’t about making good products they were making about making good money. They wanted to see how cheap, they can make it and how much they could sell it for

00:50:31.860 –> 00:50:38.460 Dave Angel: That show has, you know, sort of rejuvenated the energy around moon shining and you’ve got these

00:50:39.360 –> 00:50:48.030 Dave Angel: Gourmet moonshiners today they want to use the best of the best grains. They want to make whiskies you can’t buy anywhere else, or find anywhere else they’re

00:50:48.450 –> 00:50:54.510 Dave Angel: They’re really pushing the limits of what can be done and it’s interesting to see what some of these guys are doing.

00:50:55.020 –> 00:51:07.110 Joseph McElroy: So, you know, for people listening and one of the adventure. You can do is come to Maggie Valley and see if you can find get a local who will introduce you to a moon shot here, but you have to convince them early trustworthy.

00:51:07.530 –> 00:51:08.280 Dave Angel: So that, yeah.

00:51:08.550 –> 00:51:10.320 Joseph McElroy: Sure of your lifetime. If you can do it.

00:51:12.090 –> 00:51:19.440 Joseph McElroy: Now, but yeah, you probably can find somebody to get your product, but the be maybe a little bit harder to find it so

00:51:21.090 –> 00:51:22.140 Joseph McElroy: great adventure.

00:51:22.650 –> 00:51:29.520 Dave Angel: I was back in the day. That’s why people came to Maggie Valley, you know, now they’re guys like me out there that are making legal moonshine.

00:51:29.760 –> 00:51:30.120 Dave Angel: Yeah.

00:51:30.180 –> 00:51:39.540 Joseph McElroy: Back in the 1970s, your place and get the legal stuff because you got a fun experience. You got all the music and things going on, you know, it’s like it’s a tremendous a

00:51:40.860 –> 00:51:45.480 Joseph McElroy: Facility and then do some little ventures because they are you talking about the water. It’s great to go

00:51:47.520 –> 00:51:51.840 Joseph McElroy: To bat and fish and all sorts of things in that whole area graph.

00:51:52.650 –> 00:51:56.670 Joseph McElroy: With the waters that is it true that NASCAR came out of moonshine.

00:51:57.330 –> 00:52:02.850 Dave Angel: Yesterday a NASCAR definitely has its roots and moonshine. They were so if you make

00:52:03.150 –> 00:52:14.640 Dave Angel: If you make illegal liquor you’re called a moonshiner if you transport you are called a bootlegger so bootleggers are the that’s the beginnings and asked her right there. They had souped-up, they tended

00:52:15.360 –> 00:52:28.230 Dave Angel: super big shots in the back of the card spring so that when they loaded it down with moonshine. It didn’t sink in the bottom and it looked like it drove right but they had to be able to run the law and they have big engines in those cars to be able to do it.

00:52:30.090 –> 00:52:36.840 Joseph McElroy: So we’re gonna have to close up a little bit. Soon, where can we buy your product besides your, your, your, your distillery.

00:52:37.740 –> 00:52:46.170 Dave Angel: Well, we’d love to have you come to the store come visit Maggie valley, but we’re available and ABC stores Alcohol Beverage Control stores in North Carolina all throughout the state.

00:52:47.310 –> 00:52:53.850 Dave Angel: Where the bot will meet the coast at Wilmington, North Carolina at the distillery. It’s the exact same price. That’s one of the pros and cons of

00:52:54.510 –> 00:53:00.600 Dave Angel: A state-controlled alcohol, but we’re sold out to save North Carolina, we are looking to expand into some other states.

00:53:01.350 –> 00:53:06.870 Dave Angel: You know, we get visitors from in our, in our first six months of operating. We had a visitor from every state of Wyoming.

00:53:07.860 –> 00:53:18.600 Dave Angel: And there’s not a lot of people in Wyoming. That’s what I discovered later took a while to get one from there and yeah yeah people come from all over. And so we’re trying to figure out what states, make the best sense for us to move into

00:53:18.900 –> 00:53:20.850 Joseph McElroy: And what’s uh, what’s your website.

00:53:22.590 –> 00:53:28.050 Dave Angel: Elevatedmountain.com WWW. elevated mountain, all one word all spelled out calm.

00:53:28.560 –> 00:53:37.380 Dave Angel: You can find us on Facebook, we probably got 14 15,000 followers on Facebook. That’s probably the easiest way to keep up with what’s happening in elevated mountain distilling companies.

00:53:37.770 –> 00:53:51.300 Dave Angel: If you’re on Instagram or Twitter elevated MTN we do love to do things on there as well. But we’re always putting our music we really go to Facebook is the place to publish what’s happening.

00:53:51.480 –> 00:53:56.520 Joseph McElroy: So yeah, so it’s a great resource. I want to mention some other things that another cousin of mine runs a

00:53:57.810 –> 00:54:04.890 Joseph McElroy: Big festival Maggie Valley call hillbilly jam and you go to the hillbilly jam calm. To find out more about is to be on July 23

00:54:06.450 –> 00:54:11.460 Joseph McElroy: July 24 of 11 pm and it’s got the foods crap hillbillies it’s

00:54:12.000 –> 00:54:19.980 Joseph McElroy: It’s got moonshiners from the Discovery Channel got cars and bikes show. It’s very much part of hillbilly and Mountain near moonshine culture.

00:54:20.370 –> 00:54:31.950 Joseph McElroy: And then I got a shout out to my things. I got a motel and Maggie Valley called the Meadowlark motel. It’s been in my family for 45 years we were a plastic roadside motel that we’ve renovated to be

00:54:32.460 –> 00:54:39.540 Joseph McElroy: Athletes and seek and we have a lot of craft of beverages. They’re available for people to experience. Unfortunately, we don’t do

00:54:41.550 –> 00:54:45.270 Joseph McElroy: Days product there, but he’ll come by and do a tasting. If you want it.

00:54:45.600 –> 00:54:47.370 Dave Angel: And we’re a stone’s throw away.

00:54:49.440 –> 00:54:57.840 Joseph McElroy: And we’re working on getting the restaurants and then we can actually serve liquor because you can’t do like liquor without a restaurant, but there are restaurants all around us that you can get this product.

00:54:58.140 –> 00:55:03.900 Joseph McElroy: We have some of the top restaurants in the area right across the street next door. I own I also have a

00:55:04.530 –> 00:55:18.570 Joseph McElroy: a site called smokies adventure, the plural calm, where you can get information listings about things to do in the Smokies and wedding venues and buy books and trail max and resources back soon. I have a book called from the jar.

00:55:19.470 –> 00:55:27.270 Joseph McElroy: Shining Great Smoky Mountains that supports and nonprofits and support that to help me on finance the Great Smoky Mountains operations.

00:55:27.570 –> 00:55:33.150 Joseph McElroy: So that’ll be for people listening to this, you know, this is gonna be around for a while you’ll be able to go there. It’s not there yet, but it’ll be there soon.

00:55:33.690 –> 00:55:47.970 Joseph McElroy: And then I’m part of the were traveler magazine network, we were building a great matte Smoky Mountain section that’s going to beat your experts and human interest stories about the mountains and

00:55:48.570 –> 00:55:54.810 Joseph McElroy: It’s big sites get over 12 million visitors a year and the stories you’re gonna be very much into

00:55:55.590 –> 00:56:14.130 Joseph McElroy: What, what, what are the things we talked about here and then remind you can find more about going to the gateway, the smokers podcast by going to facebook.com slash gateway to the Smokies podcast is going to be. It’s every Tuesday from six to seven and we look forward to having you back.

00:56:15.360 –> 00:56:31.920 Joseph McElroy: And and finding out what’s going on. Next week is going to be an exciting show AND I WANT TO THANK YOU. Dave for showing up. And, you know, go get your daughter. Now he’s in the middle of going from one place to the other. So

00:56:32.970 –> 00:56:34.650 Joseph McElroy: Bye for this week. See you next week.

Former Simple Minds band member Mike Ogletree talks about finding his Scottish (and African) music traces in the Smoky Mountains and Scots-Irish Cultural traditions.

Tune in for this fun conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.



Joseph Franklyn McElroy’s family has been in the Smokies for over two hundred years. Joseph is interviewing Mike Ogletree, best known for his work in new wave bands such as Fiction Factory and Simple Minds. He currently lives in the Smoky Mountains exploring the Scottish roots of Appalachian music. Joseph recommends that any interested viewer should read Wayfaring Strangers: The Musical Voyage from Scotland and Ulster to Appalachia, which has a forward by Dolly Parton who is a cousin of his. Joseph explains the geographic and cultural connection of Scotland to the Appalachian Trail. Early Scotch-Irish immigrants brought their musical traditions, mostly folk musical instruments like fiddles and rudimentary guitars. With the added influence of West Africans and the Cherokee and new subgenre became prominent in Appalachia known as bluegrass. In the McElroy family’s establishment, the Meadowlark Motel, Mike is the artist in residence and has introduced a music program. As a self-taught musician was influenced by the Cajun-style band called The Meters. He was also interested in traditional Scottish music as well as popular rock.

For Mike, it was a challenge not to migrate due to his adventurous nature and he welcomed the challenge. Mike first came to California and worked at a film studio then moved to New York. While successful, his biggest challenge was moving from a small town environment to a city which is sustainable but the life of a musician can bring you down. Mike was still looking forward to a change. Mike and Joseph met at the General Society of Mechanics & Tradesmen of The City Of New York. They were instrumental in moving the Alexander Hamilton house to a national park. While in New York he became friends with many Scottish people and discovered that there was a strong interest in his culture and history. He was asked to perform at the Burns Supper. As a fan of Robert Burns, setting his poetry to music was not a challenge. While doing so, Mike discovered Scottish Reggae. Mike performed the famous love poem A Red Red Rose by Robert Burns. He explains that the beat is what makes it reggae.

After losing his wife, Mike decided to stay in the Rockies because to him it is like a fantasy Scotland. He’d go off by himself in the woods after school and have dreams of his freedom and liberty. When Mike came to the mountains he discovered the place he dreamed of in the woods. In the mountains, he enjoys hiking to waterfalls, enjoying the scenery, and visiting the Maggie Valley Bird Sanctuaries. Mike's musical education began with the music of the south so he was familiar with the heritage. He learned about the African American influence and then began listening to Scottish music so he could understand the influence. He discovered that many musicians brought jigs and Scottish music to the mountains, which would later evolve into the fiddling style you hear in Bluegrass. Mike plays another song, Man of Sorrow by Bob Dylan. Mike and Joseph reflect on the sense of community held in both the Rockies and Scotland as well as the straightforwardness of the people. Joseph recalls that while growing in the Smoky Mountains people would gather with instruments and make music. It was a spontaneous environment where anyone could play

Every Saturday night Mike does a live music show at the Meadowlark Motel. He welcomes walk-in musicians to share their mountain and he will share Scottish songs with them in return. Even during this pandemic, there are opportunities to hear live music. The Fairground has been doing drive-in concerts with bluegrass and country musicians. Many musicians don’t have anywhere to play so they are grateful to be playing outdoors. Mike has a website that is a nod to his black and Scottish culture called the blexcotsman.com. He can also be found on the Meadowlark Motel’s Facebook page because they Livestream his performances.

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00:00:27.510 –> 00:00:32.610 Joseph McElroy: Hello. Thanks for joining us on this week’s episode of gateway to the Smokies podcast.

00:00:33.240 –> 00:00:40.620 Joseph McElroy: This podcast is about America’s most visited National Park, the Great Smoky Mountains National Park, and the surrounding towns.

00:00:41.070 –> 00:00:49.260 Joseph McElroy: This area is filled with ancient natural beauty deep storied history and rich mountain cultures that we will explore with weekly episodes.

00:00:49.890 –> 00:01:01.320 Joseph McElroy: I am Joseph Franklyn McElroy man of the world, but also with deep roots in these mountains. My family is living the great smokies for over 200 years my business is in travel but my heart is in culture.

00:01:02.280 –> 00:01:12.510 Joseph McElroy: Today we have, we’re going to be talking about bluegrass and gospel. My guest today is a strong connection to the Smoky Mountains is known to everyone who loves, loves bluegrass and gospel music

00:01:13.050 –> 00:01:20.430 Joseph McElroy: And hang on to the end and we will give you some tips and resources to continue actually your explorations of the Smokies

00:01:21.630 –> 00:01:28.770 Joseph McElroy: Now, first let me give you a little hint on who our guest is by telling you about the map Boston mountain section of the Great Smoky Mountains National Park.

00:01:30.300 –> 00:01:44.010 Joseph McElroy: It’s in it’s in North Carolina. And it’s one of it is the. It’s one of the parks highest elevation areas and it’s accessible by car, and it also has great I think camping and picnicking and spectacular views.

00:01:45.540 –> 00:02:01.470 Joseph McElroy: It has only been as it has paved access by taking a road called the Blue Ridge Parkway Boston mountain road. And there’s also an exciting way down, called the high end toga Ridge Road, which is a one lane dirt road going one way

00:02:01.950 –> 00:02:04.770 Joseph McElroy: With the love us long it are stupendous

00:02:06.060 –> 00:02:15.450 Joseph McElroy: Especially in the fall when you get all those fall colors and when you will eventually end up being eventually use that to get the big code road, I want to bring you right into Cherokee

00:02:16.110 –> 00:02:30.060 Joseph McElroy: Now, what are the most unusual unusual thing things you’ll find in North Carolina’s spoken man parks and probably a lot of places that you’ll find a Masonic marker mute monument in the in the in the along that road.

00:02:31.140 –> 00:02:44.310 Joseph McElroy: And it’s basically where it meets the boss, a mountain section of the Great Smoky Mountains park in the boss of mountain road and it’s a it’s a it’s an unusual Mark, Mark. Mark monument that marks the spot where the world’s

00:02:44.850 –> 00:02:51.090 Joseph McElroy: largest and oldest fraternal organization and Masons have their summer assembly since 1935

00:02:53.010 –> 00:03:04.470 Joseph McElroy: And and i mean i you know just you find these things in the mountains, all the time. Yeah, like late you Alaska is the is the center of the world Methodist Council.

00:03:04.770 –> 00:03:12.150 Joseph McElroy: You know people like to come to the mountains and establish long traditions. Another big thing, I think, in the balsa mountain areas. The is that it has

00:03:12.570 –> 00:03:26.430 Joseph McElroy: It has a really fantastic picnic area historic beginning Gary, it’s actually the most drastic Park picnic area and it also has the highest elevation in the, in the, all of the park well over 5000 feet.

00:03:26.790 –> 00:03:45.090 Joseph McElroy: Of elevation. It has a bunch of picking sites BEHALF OF THEM AND WHICH IS REALLY INTERESTED IN HALF OF THEM ARE THESE handmade huge stone slabs with split logs benches and they’re one of a kind tables that were made by the stonemasons in the civilian converts conservative

00:03:45.120 –> 00:03:46.170 Hope Surrett: Conservation Corps.

00:03:46.380 –> 00:03:52.350 Joseph McElroy: In the 30s and a really standing testament to craftsmanship and of course I can’t forget to mention

00:03:53.340 –> 00:04:01.860 Joseph McElroy: Cold Mountain is in the balsam range. I don’t know if you remember that book that best selling book in the movie with Nicole Kidman about a civil war veteran and the sweetheart. The left behind.

00:04:02.520 –> 00:04:07.980 Joseph McElroy: But it has some great fight hiking trails and of course it’s a great story to take back and tell people that you went to go map.

00:04:10.110 –> 00:04:28.230 Joseph McElroy: Now I’m telling you this because my guest has a song strong connection to bounce the ball right he’s 10, sir. He’s the is one of today’s top artists making real root music and he’s a member of the legendary award winning Best selling bluegrass band balsam range.

00:04:29.460 –> 00:04:37.800 Joseph McElroy: And he has a decades long career in bluegrass gospel music, including alongside it stint with the Kingsman Hello, Tim, how are you today.

00:04:38.100 –> 00:04:41.490 Hope Surrett: I’m doing good. Joseph. Thank you for having me on, man. This is really cool.

00:04:42.000 –> 00:04:48.450 Joseph McElroy: Yeah, it’s it’s really cool having you here. I was so excited. I had to call people up and say, I have to insert here balsam range.

00:04:51.660 –> 00:04:52.200 Hope Surrett: Come on.

00:04:52.350 –> 00:04:54.870 Joseph McElroy: I was starstruck man. I was like, oh my god.

00:04:56.040 –> 00:05:00.540 Joseph McElroy: Yeah. So no, I’ve been hearing about you. For a long time now, people will never sung about

00:05:00.540 –> 00:05:07.590 Joseph McElroy: Music in the mountains. They go, you know, balsam range now so you become a real name, and I mean you’re you’re become legendary it’s

00:05:07.590 –> 00:05:08.850 Hope Surrett: A w to say

00:05:09.090 –> 00:05:19.680 Joseph McElroy: Yeah. So you were, you were actually born and raised in Canton, which is right near the balsam range. Yeah, back in the middle of the Smoky Mountains. What are you fond memories of the Smoky Mountains going up there.

00:05:20.100 –> 00:05:28.680 Hope Surrett: Well just just growing up here, and I’m very fortunate. My dad was a great lover of the outdoors and

00:05:29.790 –> 00:05:36.660 Hope Surrett: He was a railroad man here in the in the Smoky Mountains for the for the Norfolk Southern railroad, but he you know

00:05:37.590 –> 00:05:52.410 Hope Surrett: Back when I was growing up the outdoors was our are, you know, it was all recreation. We had really, you know, when you grow up in the mountains here. You might remember you got you might get to TV channels, depending on which way the winds blowing prior to cable, you know,

00:05:54.540 –> 00:06:02.820 Hope Surrett: So all Recreation was based on outdoors. My dad left to hunt and fish and and then just drive around, you know that I’m still in the days of the

00:06:03.510 –> 00:06:18.660 Hope Surrett: The Sunday drive or whatever. And a lot of times we load up in the car or whatever and drop the parkway or, or, you know, go visit relatives and my dad was a great it drives my wife nuts. Now, because now I’m the same way, but he was the kind of guys. So let’s take the long way.

00:06:18.750 –> 00:06:20.460 Joseph McElroy: The same. Very good. I remember that.

00:06:21.420 –> 00:06:28.440 Hope Surrett: And he also as I was growing up, my dad always kept a couple of Tennessee walking horses, not for showing but for trail riding.

00:06:28.710 –> 00:06:39.930 Hope Surrett: Right. So we spent a lot of summer times riding back into the Smokies, you know, places that would ride to Clemens dome, which is the highest point east of the Mississippi and

00:06:40.620 –> 00:06:45.840 Hope Surrett: Or oil, one of the highest points. It’s the second highest I guess next amount Mitchell, but we would ride.

00:06:46.620 –> 00:07:02.670 Hope Surrett: 3040 miles back into the Smoky Mountains nice department camp and trout fish. And so I grew up. And also, um, you know, 35 minutes from Cherokee and as a child, the history of the of the Cherokee people fascinated me and and does, to this day, so

00:07:03.870 –> 00:07:09.090 Hope Surrett: I, you know, I’ve been involved in that all my life. And it’s just, it’s amazing place to grow up.

00:07:09.630 –> 00:07:14.490 Joseph McElroy: We do I look I was looking at me, or about the same age. So you’re probably going to piss. Good.

00:07:15.000 –> 00:07:18.660 Joseph McElroy: Yeah, same time, I was going to Tesco. I graduated in 80 so

00:07:18.690 –> 00:07:19.920 Hope Surrett: Well, that’s all.

00:07:21.420 –> 00:07:30.450 Joseph McElroy: People might not know but is considered the most, the biggest rivalry and high school football in the nation. A few years back. So MAJOR MAGAZINE said was

00:07:30.540 –> 00:07:41.880 Hope Surrett: Oh yeah yes came and covered the game. It’s crazy to me in Canton, we have about 4500 people and for the Pisco testicle. The game will have 12,000 people out of here. I don’t even know.

00:07:43.710 –> 00:07:45.990 Joseph McElroy: It was a thing to do on Friday nights I think

00:07:46.680 –> 00:07:47.070 Joseph McElroy: Right.

00:07:47.100 –> 00:07:48.570 Hope Surrett: Yeah, it is absolutely

00:07:48.600 –> 00:07:54.390 Joseph McElroy: The and you know i i was we were Tennessee walkers to sound like you were describing my childhood just

00:07:55.230 –> 00:07:56.070 Joseph McElroy: Take it on the long

00:07:56.580 –> 00:08:05.430 Joseph McElroy: long rows and you know and and we were doing. We had our own had our own Tennessee walks because my dad. He was a horse trader so

00:08:05.790 –> 00:08:20.100 Joseph McElroy: I got one. I got one horse that was a plow horse combination plow horse and Tennessee Walker Walker. So it was a little bit rough and then the other one, they gave to me because I was the only a big enough to handle that every time he got on his foot kicking the butt. Oh, yeah.

00:08:21.240 –> 00:08:32.970 Hope Surrett: My dad was a big man about 320 he weighed and he had a big old horse was about 16 hands tall it to shoulder. It was a monster and but it was the sweetest thing. And I remember as a kid.

00:08:35.610 –> 00:08:43.920 Hope Surrett: I would come home from school and take a cinder block and prop it up long ways, so I can stand up on in that horse would walk up. Let me get on it. And so I’d ride around that.

00:08:45.480 –> 00:08:51.240 Joseph McElroy: Well yeah, I understand your dad was a big influence on you on your on your music. Pretty, pretty early. Right.

00:08:51.480 –> 00:08:53.280 Hope Surrett: Yes, absolutely. Dad was a

00:08:54.630 –> 00:09:06.960 Hope Surrett: Was an excellent singer. He played guitar a bit, and he was what I would call a jokingly referred to as an animal singer you know it was a Friday night was the moose lodge Saturday night was Elks Lodge.

00:09:09.330 –> 00:09:10.680 Hope Surrett: Lions Club, you know,

00:09:11.880 –> 00:09:12.030 Hope Surrett: And

00:09:13.260 –> 00:09:15.480 Hope Surrett: All the local little places. He was fine.

00:09:16.650 –> 00:09:23.880 Hope Surrett: He sang a lot of bluegrass he loved bluegrass but he was a better country singer in the, you know, the old time like Marty Robbins right price.

00:09:24.960 –> 00:09:26.310 Hope Surrett: Kind of country singer.

00:09:26.700 –> 00:09:27.600 Hope Surrett: So, and he would

00:09:27.660 –> 00:09:42.510 Hope Surrett: End, and I’m very grateful he let me tag along to the practices which I was enthralled with as just a small kid all the instruments blew my mind whether it was a bluegrass band or a country by end with steel guitars and whatnot, you know,

00:09:43.920 –> 00:09:49.710 Hope Surrett: So there was a great element of music in my life for my earliest memories so

00:09:50.220 –> 00:09:52.620 Joseph McElroy: Southern rock to you did a little bit of electric based in

00:09:52.980 –> 00:09:53.400 Hope Surrett: Oh, yeah.

00:09:53.430 –> 00:09:53.730 Joseph McElroy: Yeah.

00:09:54.570 –> 00:10:10.440 Hope Surrett: I got my when I was 14 my dad was trying to coax me into doing well in school guess about ninth grade and he promised me if I would do well and first semester, he’d buy me any guitar. I wanted for Christmas and I had my own Les Paul, I was going to be Led Zeppelin, you know, and

00:10:12.540 –> 00:10:21.090 Hope Surrett: But my cousin, my cousin, my cousin had he’s three years older than me. He was a senior high school and he had a high school, kind of a garage.

00:10:21.510 –> 00:10:29.430 Hope Surrett: Slash basement rock band that I just worship them, you know, and I knew their bass player was leaving, and my cousin told me if I could get a bass.

00:10:29.850 –> 00:10:39.420 Hope Surrett: I was in, you know, cuz it was the one finger base. Back then it was a you know ZZ Top bad but and I you had a base in three minutes. You are in a band, you know,

00:10:41.430 –> 00:10:51.480 Hope Surrett: So I got the base instead of the Les Paul and started playing with everybody that my dad had played with. And I was so enamored with playing that I would play

00:10:52.170 –> 00:11:05.580 Hope Surrett: With dad’s old country guys one night a week, I would play rock and roll somewhere in Asheville, North Carolina just down the road here on, you know, Friday or Saturday and and and probably in a church on Sunday with some other folks so

00:11:06.300 –> 00:11:06.780 Asked me

00:11:10.800 –> 00:11:11.310 Hope Surrett: Yeah, and then

00:11:12.090 –> 00:11:21.060 Hope Surrett: Some of it was funny cuz I stepped right in my dad kind of retired out of it. And I sort of stepped right into his a lot, especially a couple of his luck, the old country band.

00:11:21.540 –> 00:11:31.020 Hope Surrett: And some of the Bluegrass guys here in Canton which there are a lot of and and I didn’t even know the names of the songs, but I’d heard him play him so much. I just stepped in started playing so

00:11:32.640 –> 00:11:35.070 Joseph McElroy: Did you ever play Maggie that old bands all

00:11:35.400 –> 00:11:38.550 Hope Surrett: The talking about the house.

00:11:38.970 –> 00:11:40.860 Joseph McElroy: Yeah, very rarely play house. Yeah.

00:11:42.840 –> 00:11:51.540 Hope Surrett: Well you know I was also want to clog in team. That’s the first time I made it to the Grand Ole Opry. I mean, I would. When I was a kid square dancing clogging was a huge deal.

00:11:52.080 –> 00:11:59.370 Hope Surrett: And i mean i mean you’re not, I would League baseball practice or football practice and still in uniform and go to Target practice.

00:12:00.390 –> 00:12:00.720 Joseph McElroy: We know

00:12:01.440 –> 00:12:05.940 Hope Surrett: The valley Playhouse funny. I tell people all the time. That was our skating rink.

00:12:07.560 –> 00:12:09.210 Hope Surrett: You wanted to hold hands with a pretty girl.

00:12:12.180 –> 00:12:12.630 Joseph McElroy: I learned

00:12:13.650 –> 00:12:20.220 Joseph McElroy: I learned about dance. And I remember when I came back to the cities. Yeah, I’d get up and dance and people look like like I was insane.

00:12:21.480 –> 00:12:27.990 Hope Surrett: I actually, I actually called at a bar mitzvah in San Francisco wants and they thought out in invented some kind of new staff.

00:12:30.630 –> 00:12:33.090 Joseph McElroy: Well, yeah, no, that’s the that’s

00:12:34.650 –> 00:12:39.000 Joseph McElroy: The thing. It’s like the one place for white men in America will get up and dance by themselves.

00:12:41.430 –> 00:12:43.650 Hope Surrett: Yeah, let’s get up and do it too.

00:12:46.980 –> 00:12:51.420 Joseph McElroy: So that’s cool. Did you ever. Did you ever get to beat your pay play with Raymond Raymond

00:12:52.590 –> 00:12:53.850 Hope Surrett: Raymond Fairchild, sure.

00:12:55.140 –> 00:13:01.680 Hope Surrett: I remember Raymond, the first time come into my elementary school, which was Pennsylvania Avenue Elementary School here in Canton and

00:13:02.850 –> 00:13:06.360 Hope Surrett: Raymond would come with his band and play for the kids, you know, it’s really cool.

00:13:06.960 –> 00:13:20.100 Hope Surrett: And then later years, I met Raymond when I started playing bluegrass we played the same festivals like the big Cherokee festival and and all over the country. We played with Raymond Fairchild, and usually Raymond in the crow brothers Josh and willing crow cool, though.

00:13:21.150 –> 00:13:25.710 Joseph McElroy: He just died recently. I remember you remember the grown up with him in the mountains and it was

00:13:25.710 –> 00:13:26.340 Hope Surrett: All he was a

00:13:26.370 –> 00:13:27.600 Hope Surrett: He was a character, man. He

00:13:27.600 –> 00:13:38.940 Hope Surrett: Was he was a lot of things. He was a storyteller and moonshine, or I mean just all kind of stuff and he had hit a million selling single with a with a banjo instrumental

00:13:39.240 –> 00:13:39.750 Joseph McElroy: Yeah, I can.

00:13:39.900 –> 00:13:42.450 Hope Surrett: fix these all yet go break. It’s all over the place. Yeah.

00:13:42.540 –> 00:13:51.060 Joseph McElroy: Yeah, well. Cool. We got to take a break and when we come back we’ll talk more about the Blue Grass and gospel. All right.

00:13:51.510 –> 00:13:52.770 Joseph McElroy: Yes, sir. Yeah.

00:16:07.290 –> 00:16:10.920 Joseph McElroy: Hey this is Joseph backward back with the gateway to the Smokies

00:16:12.180 –> 00:16:19.860 Joseph McElroy: Pop. Pop it were the Smokies podcast. Now I’ve just been told by people that might not be playing on Facebook right now and if people were looking for it.

00:16:21.930 –> 00:16:22.380 Joseph McElroy: Yeah.

00:16:23.730 –> 00:16:31.440 Joseph McElroy: Tim, you might want to page post on your Facebook pages to talk radio dot NYC slash live, you know, look.

00:16:32.070 –> 00:16:32.730 Hope Surrett: I can do that.

00:16:33.000 –> 00:16:33.450 Yeah.

00:16:35.190 –> 00:16:38.190 Joseph McElroy: Anyway, let’s let’s do that right quick. So

00:16:39.630 –> 00:16:42.270 People can get to. Because there’s people that want to hear it.

00:16:44.010 –> 00:16:51.120 Joseph McElroy: And if the engineer out there can listen and maybe make sure it’s a streaming after our Facebook our Facebook page.

00:16:51.600 –> 00:16:51.990 Hope Surrett: Oh, you gotta

00:16:53.910 –> 00:16:54.660 Hope Surrett: You gotta have you

00:16:55.020 –> 00:16:56.310 Joseph McElroy: Gotta have that. So I

00:16:58.740 –> 00:17:02.490 Joseph McElroy: Don’t know why it’s not there, but sorry about that, folks.

00:17:03.660 –> 00:17:04.560 Joseph McElroy: So,

00:17:06.270 –> 00:17:10.350 Joseph McElroy: Anyway, let’s continue here and hopefully they’ll fix that for people

00:17:15.210 –> 00:17:23.160 Joseph McElroy: Where, where we’ve said we’re talking about talking about your playing music and place and he started professionally tour and when you were very young or cheap.

00:17:24.480 –> 00:17:28.230 Joseph McElroy: And so, you know, we’re right what right out of high school, right.

00:17:28.560 –> 00:17:39.090 Hope Surrett: Yeah, I started traveling with a group out of Canton here, a local gospel group. Well, I say local I was a senior in high school at Pisco 17 and

00:17:39.660 –> 00:17:53.880 Hope Surrett: This group from Canton here called the happy travelers. They were a gospel quartet, which I knew nothing about gospel quartets except grown up here, you got a heavy dose of the inspirations from Bryson city and the Kingsman from Asheville

00:17:55.170 –> 00:18:07.740 Hope Surrett: Other than that I had no idea, but these guys wanted me to play and travel, which at 17. I can’t believe they had a big silver Eagle bus, you know, and we went out the first weekend and and they hired me and

00:18:09.390 –> 00:18:18.330 Hope Surrett: Yeah. And that was it, and I fell in love with the gospel music that was going on at that time and and stayed in it a long, long time, you know,

00:18:18.690 –> 00:18:29.520 Joseph McElroy: You know, I remember. Around that time, you know, the there was sort of a religious revival going on with the young people quite a bit because I got, I was in that too. I was preaching at the Methodist Church and everything. So, you know, I think.

00:18:30.210 –> 00:18:34.410 Joseph McElroy: You know, you know, that was a big time for getting a little bit in the gospel.

00:18:34.770 –> 00:18:40.350 Joseph McElroy: Sure, yeah. So, um, what what towns were the big in the circuit back those days.

00:18:40.530 –> 00:18:41.970 Hope Surrett: Oh, gosh. Well, you know,

00:18:43.620 –> 00:18:57.960 Hope Surrett: The, the Bible. Well, really well. I’ll tell you this, you know, it was. It’s hard to say it was it was popular all over the especially the eastern part of the United States. I missed my senior prom at HP is good because we were playing in Detroit, Michigan that night.

00:18:57.990 –> 00:18:58.740 Joseph McElroy: Oh, wow.

00:18:58.860 –> 00:19:10.440 Hope Surrett: And the group. I was in those. Those guys were kind of a, I will say be level group. They were kind of an opening act for the major gospel groups of the day, which you know Kingsman inspirations.

00:19:11.130 –> 00:19:27.060 Hope Surrett: You know cathedrals, all these great gospel groups. So I went from straight from hospital chorus and band to, you know, plan in Detroit. That night as part of the opening act on those concerts and just kind of kept going up through there because I love the music, you know,

00:19:27.450 –> 00:19:43.320 Joseph McElroy: Cool. So, you know, no. I read a little bit about gospel music and you know that there seems like there was a time that remains the gospel sort of mainstream mainstream Gospel is turning tend to be a little bit like Quartet.

00:19:43.740 –> 00:19:44.310 Joseph McElroy: Right, yeah.

00:19:44.580 –> 00:19:48.990 Joseph McElroy: And then you then mountain gas gospel was a bit different. Right.

00:19:49.680 –> 00:19:59.280 Hope Surrett: Yeah. And absolutely, there was the mail quartet thing which has been popular since the 1940s with groups like the statesman quartet. These are groups that would come all over the country.

00:19:59.970 –> 00:20:13.320 Hope Surrett: Well, even the Ryman auditorium one weekend a month one Saturday night, a month was an all night gospel singer, you know, the Romans Grand Ole Opry years and there were, you know, there was there was the Quartet style with the statesman, the black wood brothers.

00:20:14.550 –> 00:20:23.850 Hope Surrett: And then there was the family group kind of thing with the happy good moans the Hanson, some of these people, you’d say on the gospel singing Jubilee on Sunday morning. Right. It’s

00:20:24.390 –> 00:20:37.740 Hope Surrett: hugely popular syndicated show and and then you had Bluegrass gospel. And the cool thing I noticed that a young age, because I grew up on the Bluegrass more so than the Quartet style was that

00:20:38.820 –> 00:20:43.200 Hope Surrett: The gospel audience embraced both or all three kinds really

00:20:43.410 –> 00:20:53.910 Hope Surrett: We would go play I’m ever going to play many gospel concert and they would be the group. I was playing for AND THEY WOULD THERE WOULD BE THE Hanson’s a family style country gospel group and then there would be

00:20:54.630 –> 00:20:59.880 Hope Surrett: My friends, the primitive quartet from over here in Canada, North Carolina, which is a Bluegrass gospel group.

00:21:00.270 –> 00:21:00.780 Joseph McElroy: Right and

00:21:01.050 –> 00:21:06.690 Hope Surrett: The audience just, you know, it was the message for them. And if the music was good. They. It was all good, you know,

00:21:07.710 –> 00:21:13.890 Joseph McElroy: Wow, that’s, I mean I guess that was exciting time to be involved in something of the sort of different than what everybody’s used to. Right. Yeah.

00:21:13.950 –> 00:21:14.820 Hope Surrett: Yeah, absolutely.

00:21:15.060 –> 00:21:16.470 Joseph McElroy: Cool. Um,

00:21:17.520 –> 00:21:24.750 Joseph McElroy: I was reading again and it caught my eye. There was a form of gospel and you were talking about the Cherokee is called share the gospel. What the heck is that

00:21:25.260 –> 00:21:28.920 Hope Surrett: Well, I’m not an expert at it, but I would say that’s where you know

00:21:31.770 –> 00:21:45.960 Hope Surrett: I’m certainly no lettered scholar in it, but I know you know some of the first things that the Cherokees translated into their written language wants to call you wrote, you know, came up with that language is 86 character celebrate that he did

00:21:47.040 –> 00:21:48.780 Hope Surrett: Before the removal of the Cherokees

00:21:50.400 –> 00:21:59.700 Hope Surrett: Some of the first things you know they had their own newspaper. They had their own printing press in the Cherokee capitals, they put put out their own newspaper called the Cherokee Phoenix.

00:22:02.130 –> 00:22:03.750 Hope Surrett: And they, they immediately started

00:22:05.100 –> 00:22:18.660 Hope Surrett: translating the hymn books and the Bible into the Cherokee language. And to this day, you can still go here, Cherokee family gospel groups that will sing a song in English like amazing grace and then they’ll sing a verse or two in the chair Keeling which

00:22:18.720 –> 00:22:21.930 Joseph McElroy: I don’t know. I must be really cool. I never, I never

00:22:23.520 –> 00:22:23.850 Joseph McElroy: Know, but

00:22:24.600 –> 00:22:36.450 Hope Surrett: Yeah, I’ve played a lot in Turkey, over the years, they love bluegrass and gospel both and and you’ll forever if somebody will get up and sing Amazing Grace and then do it in the Cherokee language, which is really, really cool.

00:22:37.320 –> 00:22:38.370 Joseph McElroy: So you spent

00:22:39.420 –> 00:22:51.570 Joseph McElroy: About 15 years total with the kings. When I guess there were two stints right and it’s like one of the great gospel quartets out there and you did that really pretty young. I mean at 23 landed on this major back then it

00:22:52.800 –> 00:22:55.410 Joseph McElroy: Was a that was not. Um, so what are some of the members, you have

00:22:55.680 –> 00:22:57.120 Hope Surrett: Gone. Wow, there’s too many

00:22:57.210 –> 00:23:01.080 Hope Surrett: Too many to name but I just remember when I joined the king’s men they hired me

00:23:02.370 –> 00:23:09.630 Hope Surrett: I’ve been working in the studio as a studio musician, which is a whole different facet of my musical career and a great big part of it.

00:23:10.740 –> 00:23:25.710 Hope Surrett: And I became kind of a house bass player as a big studio in Nashville. And it was predominantly gospel records. So there’s a gentleman named Eldridge fox that owned the Kingsman and he was a very prolific producer in the gospel world. So I played on tons of albums for him.

00:23:26.760 –> 00:23:28.650 Hope Surrett: recording sessions and

00:23:30.090 –> 00:23:42.810 Hope Surrett: I was playing bass, but I still love to travel and all that kind of stuff. So at one point in the late 80s, he had two guys leaving the king’s men at once. It’s a hard life. We were gone. Average 250 days a year. Easy.

00:23:44.550 –> 00:23:54.270 Hope Surrett: And he had his bass player and his baritone singer were leaving at the same time, and he knew I could do both, or at least hold down both the league could get somebody to fill one or the other.

00:23:54.660 –> 00:23:59.610 Hope Surrett: So they hired me. And you know, I remember the first not out was it a big concert in Atlanta.

00:24:00.690 –> 00:24:06.810 Hope Surrett: And they called me up to seeing and scared me to death because I was a bass player by trade, I could hear the harmony and all that.

00:24:07.320 –> 00:24:15.030 Hope Surrett: But I just remember standing there between three water now Gospel Music Hall of Famers you know there was a Eldridge Fox.

00:24:15.660 –> 00:24:23.220 Hope Surrett: Jim Hamill, who’s the lead singer and re release the basing are all Hall of Famers re, re still has the king’s men to this day.

00:24:24.090 –> 00:24:33.840 Hope Surrett: He’s the only surviving one of that group that I’m talking about. And just, I remember stepping up between those guys and just could just could not believe it.

00:24:34.410 –> 00:24:44.460 Hope Surrett: And, you know, it was carried me all over the United States and Canada, and my, you know, my first time to seeing on the Grand Ole Opry was with the Kingsman

00:24:44.790 –> 00:24:47.730 Hope Surrett: And and and you know just all kinds of stuff all over

00:24:48.360 –> 00:25:00.900 Hope Surrett: Then you found out because every year we would take the month of February and start in Texas or somewhere and play Phoenix and Albuquerque and up Los Angeles and all of the West Coast and

00:25:02.040 –> 00:25:06.210 Hope Surrett: Oregon and Washington. And then up into British Columbia, Alberta.

00:25:07.350 –> 00:25:14.700 Hope Surrett: The people in Canada would drive six or eight hours to come here. You hear you play at one of these big concerts, because that’s all I got the whole year.

00:25:15.210 –> 00:25:18.600 Hope Surrett: Wow. Oh, it was, it was amazing to me. It was, I wouldn’t call it

00:25:19.770 –> 00:25:25.890 Hope Surrett: A counterculture but it was definitely a whole different world that I didn’t know even existed, and it was, you know, just

00:25:26.940 –> 00:25:29.550 Hope Surrett: Doing it at that level for that long was a

00:25:30.630 –> 00:25:31.890 Hope Surrett: Was a great blessing for me.

00:25:32.370 –> 00:25:41.370 Joseph McElroy: Well, I came out of Nashville. And you came at a camp. And there’s some good things going on in there is a national always been a great area for gospel music in the center of it.

00:25:42.120 –> 00:25:50.130 Hope Surrett: It’s been a big part of it going back even to, you know, prior to my days there was no fail in Asheville named Riley that brought

00:25:50.550 –> 00:26:01.050 Hope Surrett: Those great, you know, the big gospel x to the old Nashville city auditorium, the statesman, the black was the Goodman’s all those kinds of people on down through the years, and

00:26:02.520 –> 00:26:07.380 Hope Surrett: I don’t know if it’s the hotbed is it was in those days when I was first getting into it.

00:26:08.610 –> 00:26:14.940 Hope Surrett: Because honestly bluegrass you can do better with Bluegrass style music here than about anything else. Yeah.

00:26:15.480 –> 00:26:18.390 Joseph McElroy: Became popular with the kids. I think the hipsters

00:26:19.080 –> 00:26:20.130 Hope Surrett: Yeah yeah yeah

00:26:20.940 –> 00:26:23.700 Hope Surrett: What we ran a school called a trust the ferry guns.

00:26:25.440 –> 00:26:32.100 Joseph McElroy: They were we gotta lose broke up here and there and they’re cool kids, but they got they got into that roots music, man.

00:26:33.000 –> 00:26:40.890 Hope Surrett: They look, I’ll tell you what, man. We love playing bluegrass for those kinds of audiences because they just, I don’t think they’re prepared for the power of it, you know.

00:26:41.610 –> 00:26:52.410 Hope Surrett: When the drive hits in a good bluegrass band, it’s, it’s kind of got that rock and roll energy about it. And when that hits them with special with acoustic instruments they lose their minds. It’s so much fun.

00:26:52.560 –> 00:26:58.170 Joseph McElroy: And you know, when you put clogging do it, you know, pretty crazy with Bob and I mean you can, you know, you can throw

00:26:58.260 –> 00:26:58.770 Hope Surrett: Oh, yeah.

00:26:59.100 –> 00:26:59.640 Joseph McElroy: Oh, yeah.

00:27:00.870 –> 00:27:04.320 Hope Surrett: There was a big festival in Nashville. For years, called bail share

00:27:04.770 –> 00:27:06.000 Joseph McElroy: Yeah yeah

00:27:06.060 –> 00:27:07.410 Hope Surrett: Oh, it was huge and

00:27:08.850 –> 00:27:17.850 Hope Surrett: It had everything and they always had us close it out and it was so much fun because they close off the streets of downtown Nashville, they’d be, you know, eight or 10,000 people out there.

00:27:18.480 –> 00:27:25.860 Hope Surrett: And we would have farmers from out here. Jonathan very calm Haywood out there in the streets dancing with the with the hippie KIDS DOING THE SPAN, you know,

00:27:26.550 –> 00:27:26.850 Hope Surrett: It was

00:27:27.540 –> 00:27:30.780 Hope Surrett: It was all all for one and one for all. It was just great.

00:27:32.370 –> 00:27:37.950 Joseph McElroy: Yeah, well you know that that sort of hippie thing is always been around, we have a rainbow children come. There we go.

00:27:37.950 –> 00:27:38.610 Joseph McElroy: Oh, sure.

00:27:39.480 –> 00:27:48.540 Joseph McElroy: Yeah, so the mountains, have always had this sort of counterculture yeah yeah yeah that’s pretty cool. Well you know I

00:27:50.160 –> 00:27:57.900 Joseph McElroy: I see 1991 you and Mickey gamble on the new record and company called a mountain home music company. Right. Yeah.

00:27:57.960 –> 00:28:05.370 Hope Surrett: Yeah, I’ll tell you. I’ll tell you what happened with that you know I mentioned a minute ago how I saw a young age, the Bluegrass people

00:28:06.060 –> 00:28:26.490 Hope Surrett: The gospel. People loved the Bluegrass and even with the king’s men, they would have me take a guitar in the middle of a quartet style program and sing a couple of three bluegrass style songs and I saw very quickly that the gospel. People loved both styles. So I talked to Mickey who owned

00:28:27.600 –> 00:28:40.560 Hope Surrett: A studio in Nashville about life. I was with the king’s men, it’s time. But I was looking for an outlet to perform or not perform so much but produce and and and just play some bluegrass because I loved it so much.

00:28:41.640 –> 00:28:43.890 Hope Surrett: And they understood the business idea I had that

00:28:45.540 –> 00:28:51.960 Hope Surrett: You know, at that time, the gospel. People would accept either one. So we have what I consider the double market.

00:28:52.410 –> 00:29:04.380 Hope Surrett: And we started out with. It was all Bluegrass gospel, to start with, and it’s just kind of kept growing and growing and growing and morphing over the years and and our band is still on that label all these was it 30 years later. Oh, Lord.

00:29:06.030 –> 00:29:14.190 Joseph McElroy: Well, I’m going to take a break down we’ll finish up a little bit more about that story. Alright, sounds pretty good. I love that. I love that. And the actual artists and might be involved.

00:29:14.280 –> 00:29:15.450 Hope Surrett: All right. Okay. Sure.

00:31:36.510 –> 00:31:43.740 Joseph McElroy: Hey it’s Joseph Franklin McIlroy back with gateway to the Smokies podcast, then I guess Tim certain balsam range.

00:31:44.970 –> 00:31:56.550 Joseph McElroy: Hey, Tim. We were talking about your about your, your, your records recording company. And I was wondering could you tell me about that Smoky Mountain talents. You’re seeing these days.

00:31:57.180 –> 00:32:02.130 Hope Surrett: Man, we started out with, with all local folks, pretty much.

00:32:03.870 –> 00:32:04.620 Hope Surrett: You know, just

00:32:05.730 –> 00:32:14.760 Hope Surrett: There was so much bluegrass around here still is local gospel family bands that kind of stuff. And then we started getting people from out of the area.

00:32:15.540 –> 00:32:32.670 Hope Surrett: But, you know, we’ve we’ve had everybody. And you can think of. And over the past 30 years major, major names on our label and a lot of them are still there. So, uh, yeah. I started out with. I’ll tell you one of my favorites is a young man from Candler North Carolina.

00:32:34.050 –> 00:32:47.970 Hope Surrett: By the name of Brian Sutton, and Brian is a Grammy Award winner, world class guitar player. I don’t know how many times he’s one bluegrass guitar player of the year, but he’s played with everybody on the planet from Ricky Skaggs to everybody. You can think of and

00:32:49.080 –> 00:32:57.390 Hope Surrett: I met him when I was a senior high school at Inca and got him on his first session and next thing you know he’s traveling with Ricky Skaggs but back in those days.

00:32:58.380 –> 00:33:06.030 Hope Surrett: These family groups would come into record from the area and they would have myself and another musician. I’m David Johnson, who plays everything on the planet.

00:33:06.450 –> 00:33:16.020 Hope Surrett: Plays every instrument. I’ve ever seen at a master level and also a humble sweet guy and I can’t tell you how many records we cut for these family bands with just myself and David

00:33:16.470 –> 00:33:17.070 Joseph McElroy: Oh, wow.

00:33:17.280 –> 00:33:29.940 Hope Surrett: Just the two of us would play all the instruments and and and it was so much fun. But over the years it morphed into an actual major bluegrass label and and we’ve had everybody from Tony rice Larry sparks.

00:33:31.380 –> 00:33:39.600 Hope Surrett: You know bluegrass household names don’t last me Quicksilver balsam range Lawrence river by in the grass skulls too many to name and

00:33:39.660 –> 00:33:39.930 Joseph McElroy: I looked

00:33:41.070 –> 00:33:46.080 Joseph McElroy: I looked at it was pretty impressive is like, Oh my gosh, this is, this is the real deal here. Yeah, it’s

00:33:46.200 –> 00:33:53.520 Hope Surrett: It’s been a wonderful thing for. I can’t believe it just hit me talking to you. Yeah, this year. Next 30 years that’s man. That’s crazy.

00:33:53.730 –> 00:33:55.260 Joseph McElroy: I hate to remind you of your age.

00:33:57.480 –> 00:33:59.790 Hope Surrett: Oh, I can see myself as a reminder already

00:34:02.070 –> 00:34:14.160 Joseph McElroy: So you’ve experienced SO WE’RE IN THE BLUEGRASS now you’ve experienced a lot of mountain mountain. MUSIC All right. Yeah. And your marriage music here just comfortable Smoky Mountains, but you’ve traveled a lot. You’ve seen bluegrass

00:34:14.700 –> 00:34:22.980 Joseph McElroy: Bluegrass has claimed it a lot of different areas. Is there anything different about the Smoky Mountain bluegrass that the make a distinctive sound.

00:34:23.520 –> 00:34:34.050 Hope Surrett: I think, I think there is usually in bands from this area western North Carolina or some of them in East Tennessee on the smoke that side of the Smokies there’s an energy there.

00:34:34.740 –> 00:34:51.990 Hope Surrett: That’s, that’s kind of unmistakable unmistakable. You can really feel it. And there’s also an element I think of the old time music, you know, the fiddle team kind of thing that creeps in. I know it does in our music. It creeps in quite often. And I love that stuff. You know,

00:34:53.010 –> 00:34:54.930 Hope Surrett: So I do think that kind of sets.

00:34:56.040 –> 00:35:03.660 Hope Surrett: People from our region apart just a little bit, it’s, it’s a difference. And of course, our accents have something to do with it, you know, with

00:35:04.680 –> 00:35:10.680 Hope Surrett: With balsam range. People say, you know, the way you harmonize. Are you guys is that family harmony. And I said, No, that’s county harmony.

00:35:12.900 –> 00:35:22.950 Joseph McElroy: Yeah, we did a show, you know, the couple weeks ago about the Scottish influence on mountain culture, you know, and talking about you know how the Scotch Irish came here.

00:35:23.400 –> 00:35:23.760 Hope Surrett: Right.

00:35:24.000 –> 00:35:35.160 Joseph McElroy: And brought a lot of tradition of that kind of music, a balance and things that when you started bringing in the banjo and stuff started morphing into this more beat driven music that’s bluegrass right

00:35:35.550 –> 00:35:39.510 Hope Surrett: Right, absolutely. I mean, that Scotch Irish thing is still huge

00:35:40.620 –> 00:35:46.950 Hope Surrett: You know, it’s what it’s what’s bad bill Monroe sold to start this kind of thing off in the first place, but

00:35:47.880 –> 00:35:52.620 Hope Surrett: Yeah, it’s especially around here that that like that’s what I’m saying that old time droning fiddle

00:35:53.460 –> 00:36:00.300 Hope Surrett: faddle team kind of thing. And every bluegrass band in the world still play some of the songs that very well came over from

00:36:00.810 –> 00:36:16.290 Hope Surrett: Scotland or England or Ireland or whales or somewhere over in there and that’s why that music cross pollinate. That’s why the Irish music resonates so strongly with people like us, you know, it’s, there’s something in our blood that that that really identifies with us.

00:36:17.010 –> 00:36:18.000 Joseph McElroy: You mentioned one point.

00:36:19.380 –> 00:36:25.410 Joseph McElroy: You really felt that it’s like there’s a bluegrass is like it almost seems very authentic because it feels natural to you.

00:36:26.340 –> 00:36:33.930 Hope Surrett: Oh yeah, I’ll tell you, for me, and we’re, you know, close to the same age. I spoke about wanting to play rock and roll. When I was a kid. And when I was a

00:36:34.440 –> 00:36:47.490 Hope Surrett: high schooler radio was I mean popular radio was so good. I mean, you, you just and you’re always sentimental about what you grew up on but on pop radio, you would hear the Eagles or

00:36:47.910 –> 00:37:04.650 Hope Surrett: Kansas or foreigner, or, you know, all these great thing and bands and then when the 80s rolled around, you know, the new wave thing started. And I’m not degrading anybody’s opinion that’s why there’s buttons on the radio. But for me, the, the sense era kind of

00:37:05.790 –> 00:37:19.740 Hope Surrett: Lost me a little bit and I started longing for something more authentic more primitive, I guess you might say, and it drove me to back to blue grass, and in particular bill Monroe.

00:37:20.820 –> 00:37:34.170 Hope Surrett: The father of bluegrass is he’s widely known. And there was something there was something they called it the high lonesome sound. There’s something, there’s something in that music I can hurt. David Letterman talk about it one time he loved bill Monroe and

00:37:36.000 –> 00:37:42.810 Hope Surrett: There was something in that that really, really got to me and people like Bill Monroe and Ralph Stanley Stanley brothers.

00:37:43.290 –> 00:37:45.150 Hope Surrett: The way they saying it was it was a

00:37:46.590 –> 00:37:50.220 Hope Surrett: Had a lonesome quality to it. They had a real mountain thing about it, you know.

00:37:51.780 –> 00:37:53.310 Joseph McElroy: Scotch Irish influence

00:37:54.750 –> 00:37:59.730 Joseph McElroy: And immigrants much that they were always longing for home that they didn’t even know existed.

00:38:00.000 –> 00:38:01.410 Hope Surrett: There’s a longing for something

00:38:02.460 –> 00:38:03.720 Hope Surrett: I don’t know if you ever find it.

00:38:07.230 –> 00:38:19.680 Hope Surrett: Just comes out in that sound and that’s the authenticity. And just the fact that the skill level, it takes to play bluegrass well because there’s nothing between you and the crowd, but your, your hands on the instrument and your voice. That’s all there is, you know,

00:38:20.310 –> 00:38:29.310 Joseph McElroy: So there’s a lot of authentic instruments. I’m talking about handcrafted things. I know you did a producer down with Tom Tony rice called crossings that featured handcrafted

00:38:29.880 –> 00:38:32.790 Joseph McElroy: Well, yeah, that building the mountains or some of it.

00:38:33.060 –> 00:38:35.610 Hope Surrett: Yeah, well sure there’s there’s a

00:38:36.690 –> 00:38:50.640 Hope Surrett: You know there’s there’s two or three makers of instruments like Martin guitars or gets an instruments, the banjos and Mandel ends, but there’s also a huge culture nowadays of custom, custom instruments handmade instruments.

00:38:51.930 –> 00:39:06.180 Hope Surrett: That are based on some of the great instruments of the 20s, 30s, 40s of the last century. Our guitar player Caleb Smith, you should come contact him about an episode because he builds custom guitars guitars that are unbelievable.

00:39:07.650 –> 00:39:18.240 Hope Surrett: And there is a big thing. You know, you got the whole dulcimer culture here. That is a cool sound that’s that’s all its own has that droning sound that are either Scotch Irish kind of thing.

00:39:19.260 –> 00:39:33.360 Hope Surrett: In yeah there’s builders of instruments. I know the guy can’t hear that makes fabulous mandolin there Caleb our guitar player makes fabulous guitars 10 minutes from where I’m sitting and we know all kinds of these people around here that make their own instruments.

00:39:34.410 –> 00:39:36.840 Hope Surrett: To a really high master level.

00:39:37.320 –> 00:39:43.740 Joseph McElroy: Wow. So let’s talk about balsam range is now how did, how did you guys come together as a legendary band now.

00:39:43.830 –> 00:39:46.800 Hope Surrett: Nah. Well, if you hang around long enough, they call you that, but

00:39:49.350 –> 00:39:52.350 Hope Surrett: They call I call it a very, very happy.

00:39:54.030 –> 00:40:02.520 Hope Surrett: Coincidence, basically, and I don’t believe in coincidence, all that much. It’s a joke, but all of us had been all over the country and all over the world, playing in different

00:40:03.060 –> 00:40:10.170 Hope Surrett: Bands of some kind, myself in the gospel world Mark Pruitt our banjo player played with Ricky Skaggs for many years.

00:40:10.830 –> 00:40:25.230 Hope Surrett: And on his albums and all the guys has been all over the place and we all ended up back in in Canton around here about the same time and we didn’t all even know each other because luckily I’ve been on the road, since I was 17, you know, and we

00:40:26.670 –> 00:40:30.960 Hope Surrett: Are mandolin player dare Nicholson I RAN INTO HIM AT A physical football game. First one.

00:40:32.070 –> 00:40:44.190 Hope Surrett: First one. I’ve been off the road to go to about 20 years and he stopped me at the ball game said he was going to do a solo, and he called me, Mr. Sir, he said, I’m going to do a record. I want you to play the bass on it, which I do quite often and

00:40:45.420 –> 00:40:54.360 Hope Surrett: I said, Sure. Well, Mark and I ended up playing on that record great Rick and a month or two later buddy mountain our fiddle player 10 or singer who is spectacular.

00:40:56.490 –> 00:41:10.440 Hope Surrett: He called Mark and wanted to do another solo bluegrass record and Mark and I ended up playing on that record. We had so much fun on those two records we mark. And I said, Let’s get these two bunches together and just jam, a little, you know,

00:41:12.450 –> 00:41:24.540 Hope Surrett: So we got together in right before Christmas of oh six at Dan’s house here in Canton, and let’s just play some standards and pick a little bit, you know, and first notes went off and we were on

00:41:25.950 –> 00:41:27.840 Hope Surrett: This. That sounds pretty good. You know,

00:41:28.170 –> 00:41:34.320 Hope Surrett: Yeah. We jam for a couple, three hours until I tell you what, let’s get back together after Christmas, do it again, have some more fun.

00:41:35.340 –> 00:41:38.610 Hope Surrett: When we did. And I was curious to see if it still sounded good, you know,

00:41:40.860 –> 00:41:46.980 Hope Surrett: So we got together and oh seven in January kicked off first song, who, there it is, you know,

00:41:47.970 –> 00:42:04.500 Hope Surrett: And Mark prove it was kind of the local guy for all the gigs, like my dad used to play all the corporate things and stuff. And he said, I’ve been contacted to play a show in Asheville at the growth parky and huge tourist great old beautiful place. And he said,

00:42:05.640 –> 00:42:14.010 Hope Surrett: He said, You want to do it will just make up a name and go and we made up a name. And I don’t remember what it was, it was not balsam range. But we went did the show.

00:42:14.850 –> 00:42:23.370 Hope Surrett: Total non bluegrass crowd of about 2500 people and they lost their minds and we we thought let’s just, you know, do this a little more. And it just kind of

00:42:23.910 –> 00:42:32.070 Hope Surrett: More and more, more and more and more started playing around Asheville regularly and then broadened out and then what really hit for us was

00:42:34.770 –> 00:42:42.480 Hope Surrett: We cut our first record, you know, seven and Darren or mandolin player gave a copy to a great friend of ours, but the name of Kyle Cantrell

00:42:43.110 –> 00:42:55.080 Hope Surrett: He was a WB SM and Nashville for years and years. Grand Ole Opry announcer, and he was hired to be the program director for the Bluegrass channel ON SIRIUS XM and he

00:42:56.670 –> 00:43:07.020 Hope Surrett: He took that CD and not knowing what to make of it played it loved it and started playing this one town and it kind of went it blew up as much as bluegrass can blow up.

00:43:10.650 –> 00:43:16.410 Hope Surrett: And people started calling and book and all over the place. And here we are 14 years later, but all over the world.

00:43:16.440 –> 00:43:20.160 Hope Surrett: Very thankful for that happy coincidence, man.

00:43:20.640 –> 00:43:24.690 Joseph McElroy: Well, after we after we come back from this break here. Tell me how you came up with a name balsam range.

00:43:24.990 –> 00:43:25.380 Hope Surrett: All right.

00:45:45.720 –> 00:45:59.340 Joseph McElroy: Hi this is Joseph Franklin macro. He’s very eager to get back to you with the gateway to the to the Smokies podcasts and, I guess, Tim, sir, and balsam range. So tell me, Tim, how did you come up with that name balsam range.

00:45:59.640 –> 00:46:03.990 Hope Surrett: Well, as I said, we were playing locally. Then, and that’s all we intended to do, truthfully.

00:46:05.280 –> 00:46:16.290 Hope Surrett: Play around Haywood County, maybe Asheville some more and whatnot. But we started trying to find a name for a bluegrass band is tough. I tried to I suggest to DEF heifer but the rest of them wouldn’t buy that.

00:46:16.290 –> 00:46:16.500 So,

00:46:19.230 –> 00:46:24.060 Hope Surrett: We started looking at landmarks around the county that would, you know, we had that real Haywood County thing.

00:46:25.140 –> 00:46:35.400 Hope Surrett: And we came across, we know we tried all the names around on the Parkway and whatnot, the Smokies we thought cat Lucci would never work because nobody would spell it or say it and

00:46:37.380 –> 00:46:42.360 Hope Surrett: But here, up on the parkway the highest point around here is the, the great balsam range.

00:46:42.630 –> 00:46:42.930 Joseph McElroy: Yeah.

00:46:42.960 –> 00:46:53.970 Hope Surrett: You know those those mountains that kind of horseshoe Haywood County in Jackson County and we decided to go with that. But we thought great balsam range was a little pretentious, so we

00:46:53.970 –> 00:46:54.270 Dropped

00:46:59.220 –> 00:47:00.930 Joseph McElroy: The great balsam range. Yeah.

00:47:01.320 –> 00:47:04.290 Hope Surrett: So we just decided to go with the pretty good balsam range and

00:47:04.290 –> 00:47:06.660 Joseph McElroy: Oh favorite county boys are humble.

00:47:06.930 –> 00:47:10.560 Hope Surrett: Yeah, because if you’re not the rest of the county will humble you.

00:47:12.780 –> 00:47:18.900 Hope Surrett: Don’t mind at all. But that’s where it came from. We didn’t think we would ever played that far away from it that people wouldn’t know what it meant.

00:47:19.230 –> 00:47:22.470 Joseph McElroy: Yeah. So you’re all accomplished musicians and

00:47:24.240 –> 00:47:26.670 Joseph McElroy: Singers. At some point, how do you manage that.

00:47:27.180 –> 00:47:29.040 Hope Surrett: It’s fun. Man, to tell you the truth.

00:47:30.120 –> 00:47:43.740 Hope Surrett: Is so much fun because he would. I think it’s fun for the audience because you don’t listen to the, you know, one guy saying every song or or the same trio sing in harmony or we can switch around a lot. And we do

00:47:44.370 –> 00:47:46.530 Hope Surrett: And I think it’s more interesting to people.

00:47:48.810 –> 00:47:54.630 Hope Surrett: They’re trying to figure out, well, who’s singing. Now, you know, so it’s fun for us when we’re arranging music because

00:47:55.320 –> 00:48:07.200 Hope Surrett: You know, we can put different people sitting in different parts. And sometimes, you know, you can have one guessing and lead three guys singing behind him. So it opens up a lot of a lot of variety in your harmony singing it.

00:48:07.770 –> 00:48:15.030 Joseph McElroy: Yeah. Imagine the drama that you guys do have in the band is an arbitrary edge is probably more like go outside for a cigarette or

00:48:16.590 –> 00:48:27.090 Hope Surrett: We talk all the time, myself and Derek Nicholson cost Caleb things lead lot buddy sings Tanner, he’s got the high voice and daring enough flip a coin for the baritone part and whoever loses has to take it, you know.

00:48:29.700 –> 00:48:32.340 Joseph McElroy: There you go, coming out with a simple system that’s the way to do

00:48:32.370 –> 00:48:33.180 Hope Surrett: There you go. Yeah.

00:48:33.240 –> 00:48:35.790 Joseph McElroy: Yeah. So what is your latest album.

00:48:37.170 –> 00:48:45.870 Hope Surrett: We’ve got the latest one. We’ve had out called IANA a CEO and I see it’s pretty cool word and it did very well for us. It was number one on billboard.

00:48:46.650 –> 00:48:57.120 Hope Surrett: Was a really great record force we were about two thirds of the way through a new record. And the reason why I’m finished. It’s because we can’t go play at this particular time, you know,

00:48:58.410 –> 00:49:12.390 Hope Surrett: We have we’ve had two number one songs. This past year, often unfinished record and the songs, we’d never really played him in public, because you know there’s no shows at this point. So we got a new record in the in the works had a new single go out this past Friday.

00:49:12.780 –> 00:49:16.380 Hope Surrett: Window, the new single. Well, I wish you asked me.

00:49:18.360 –> 00:49:20.790 Hope Surrett: It’s called rivers and range and runaway trains.

00:49:20.970 –> 00:49:21.600 Joseph McElroy: Oh, wow.

00:49:21.870 –> 00:49:24.360 Hope Surrett: It’s the new thing, or maybe the album title, I don’t know, but

00:49:24.930 –> 00:49:26.160 Joseph McElroy: Perfect country western song.

00:49:27.810 –> 00:49:29.670 Hope Surrett: It’s got that longing in it, doesn’t it.

00:49:31.710 –> 00:49:36.540 Hope Surrett: But yeah, we’ve we’ve we’ve been blessed. I don’t even know how many albums. We’ve that we’ve done now 10 or 11, I guess.

00:49:36.840 –> 00:49:44.610 Hope Surrett: And and they’ve all done very well for us. But he was a good one, number one on billboard was a really cool thing for us.

00:49:45.270 –> 00:49:48.870 Joseph McElroy: So you haven’t been able to play versus your has been treating you guys

00:49:49.080 –> 00:49:55.500 Hope Surrett: Well, it’s tough on all musicians and we figured since last March, we’ve played three live shows

00:49:56.940 –> 00:50:11.940 Hope Surrett: And one in Texas, one in Oklahoma and one in Ohio, and we’ve got one scheduled for the 30th and Newberry South Carolina at that at the famous Newberry Opera House. This is one of our favorite shows we do every year. So we’re just praying, it hangs in there, you know,

00:50:13.080 –> 00:50:26.790 Hope Surrett: But, but, yeah, it’s been tough on ton all the musicians from the lowest of the superstars. It’s very difficult time. And we’ve tried to use that time to record more and you know kind of concentrate on that.

00:50:28.050 –> 00:50:32.940 Joseph McElroy: What do you think you, what do you think you might get a tour together would be next year, or would it be

00:50:33.120 –> 00:50:33.360 Well,

00:50:34.440 –> 00:50:42.300 Hope Surrett: A lot of our dates that you know you book a year, two years in advance and for the latter half of the year. A lot of our dates are still there. So,

00:50:42.960 –> 00:50:49.890 Hope Surrett: Just remains to be seen how many I’m staying. A lot of these dates for the early part of the first half of the year have already moved to next year so

00:50:51.690 –> 00:50:54.510 Hope Surrett: I think it’s gonna be very similar to this past year, unfortunately.

00:50:54.930 –> 00:50:58.290 Joseph McElroy: Do you have any dates in the Smoky Mountain area and or the New York area.

00:50:59.400 –> 00:51:07.500 Hope Surrett: No, you know, some of the dates January and February and the first week of March was all we had last year and we spent a whole weekend in New York City, which was

00:51:08.070 –> 00:51:18.240 Hope Surrett: One of our favorite things to do we play at the the Hilton there in Manhattan so much. It’s so much fun, man. I mean, I don’t know what to do with a hillbilly thing, you know.

00:51:18.660 –> 00:51:19.980 Joseph McElroy: When, when you come up

00:51:32.310 –> 00:51:32.610 Hope Surrett: Well,

00:51:35.550 –> 00:51:43.110 Hope Surrett: We’ll just it just remains to be seen. We put our own Festival on every December. Yeah, like here like Juneau Alaska in the Smokies here and

00:51:43.860 –> 00:51:53.310 Hope Surrett: And this was first year that we’ve had to call it off this past December, it’s so I’m really hope we can get all that back on for the latter part of the year, Lord willing,

00:51:53.700 –> 00:51:57.960 Joseph McElroy: And I want to call this one is called the Smoky Mountain bluegrass festival right it was

00:51:58.020 –> 00:51:59.850 Hope Surrett: Well, what’s called the balsam range art.

00:52:00.480 –> 00:52:02.250 Joseph McElroy: Festival. Yeah, that’s right, yeah.

00:52:02.760 –> 00:52:09.090 Hope Surrett: And it’s cool, because all the music is in student auditorium, which is a beautiful indoor facility, but you’re looking out over the lake and it’s

00:52:09.600 –> 00:52:24.270 Hope Surrett: It’s got the outdoor vibe to it, but it’s all indoors and people, people come from all over the country. And we’ve had people from overseas come and because you in the Smoky Mountains in December, you can ski and the next day you can play golf. You know, you never know.

00:52:25.530 –> 00:52:26.130 Joseph McElroy: Well, I’ll tell you.

00:52:27.210 –> 00:52:34.680 Joseph McElroy: One thing keeps you locked in a little bit. When it gets a little bit warmer. We have a we have an open to the middle of a big old backyard.

00:52:36.210 –> 00:52:39.000 Joseph McElroy: You guys goodbye just thrown out of you want to do.

00:52:40.410 –> 00:52:54.090 Hope Surrett: We’ve got this show coming up on the 30th in South Carolina, and I was home yesterday and got my instruments out for the first time in a while. Just to see if my fingers bleed. You know, so we’re gonna have to get back into shape, that’s for sure.

00:52:54.810 –> 00:53:00.180 Joseph McElroy: So, um, tell me you got a radio show now and you’re about to go to it after this

00:53:00.270 –> 00:53:00.660 Hope Surrett: I am

00:53:02.340 –> 00:53:14.700 Hope Surrett: Or six minutes. Well, you know, back in August. It was I, I was really missing the fellowship of the road and the band and the people that we play for we’ve had a strict policy at make friends not fans.

00:53:16.230 –> 00:53:25.230 Hope Surrett: Kind of attitude and I was really missing the interaction with all our friends across the world. And I started thinking of some way we could get together and

00:53:26.640 –> 00:53:38.760 Hope Surrett: That kind of thing. And it just came in my mind. You know what a metal radio show, and I came and I talked to my friend longtime hospital friend. You might remember Terrell Rick from Tesco lets you say my giant

00:53:38.880 –> 00:53:39.330 Joseph McElroy: Yeah.

00:53:39.960 –> 00:53:46.590 Hope Surrett: But he will her dad is on the little local radio station here in Haywood County, since the 70s and I, uh,

00:53:47.850 –> 00:53:59.400 Hope Surrett: I called her up and I said, I’m thinking about. I’m not want to do a radio show. I don’t know. I don’t have any experience with it. She said, when you won’t start. So about 10 days later, we went on the air doing two hours of live

00:54:01.050 –> 00:54:06.660 Hope Surrett: Radio doing bluegrass a classic country music and

00:54:07.380 –> 00:54:11.040 Hope Surrett: Gospel and gospel as well. And it’s just kind of took off on us.

00:54:12.240 –> 00:54:14.310 Joseph McElroy: Right on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

00:54:14.310 –> 00:54:17.820 Hope Surrett: Tuesdays and Thursdays from 7pm Eastern to 10

00:54:18.060 –> 00:54:19.170 Joseph McElroy: And what is a radio station.

00:54:19.440 –> 00:54:42.030 Hope Surrett: weta al in Canton, and it’s WP to radio.net or they have an app as well on iPhones or whatnot, or smartphone app. So we stream and it’s gone nuts on us in a good way, we’re having, you know, 1314 15,000 people every episode everywhere from Heidelberg Germany to try out Creek Montana, so

00:54:43.740 –> 00:54:46.980 Hope Surrett: 10 or 1211 12,000 people in this region.

00:54:47.400 –> 00:55:00.660 Joseph McElroy: Well, I appreciate you coming on taking the time to be with us. It’s been a wonderful show even though it’s glitches and I’ll let you go to get to your show and finish up here with what we’re doing what we’re doing. So thank you very much, Tim.

00:55:00.780 –> 00:55:03.660 Hope Surrett: All right. Hey, my pleasure. He’s, he’s fun to do. Thanks a lot. Good.

00:55:03.960 –> 00:55:14.310 Joseph McElroy: All right, bye bye. Okay, folks. Thank you for listening to gateway to the Smokies podcast I want to mention that you can find more about [email protected] slash

00:55:14.850 –> 00:55:23.340 Joseph McElroy: Gateway to the Smokies podcast. We’re also we’re also part of this where traveler magazine network where we were actually building a

00:55:24.480 –> 00:55:27.840 Joseph McElroy: Section, and we’re traveling, which is 100 year old magazine or something like that.

00:55:28.380 –> 00:55:37.020 Joseph McElroy: For travel and it’s called the Great Smoky Mountains section you go find out a lot of good articles there. I’ve also got a local a website called the

00:55:37.560 –> 00:55:49.830 Joseph McElroy: smokies adventure calm, where you can get listings about hiking and music and places to go in the Smoky Mountains and also find stories that will help you experience those adventures.

00:55:50.610 –> 00:56:03.990 Joseph McElroy: Deeply and with a lot of people and of course I own a motel and Maggie value, North Carolina. My family 45 years. It’s a metal arc motel.com and Lark motel calm and you’re welcome to come visit us and start your

00:56:04.290 –> 00:56:08.670 Joseph McElroy: Smoky Mountain adventures was where you stay and thank you very much. See you next week.