Music: Dirty Gertie by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com

Episode 7 – Theology High Five (with Jeremey Weiss)

Theology High Five is two episodes coming together to produce one satisfying (extended) conversation about a theological idea. Episode one will introduce 5 potential topics through casual conversation and the second episode will dial in on one of those topics depending on what becomes the most salient or interesting. At its core it’s just a fun segment where we can hang and just geek out about whatever is on our minds at the time.

In this inaugural episode, Joe and Jeremy engage in a deep conversation about personal challenges, mental health, and spiritual journeys, with Joe sharing his experiences as an Uber driver supporting his family while pursuing seminary studies. They explored concepts like neuro-relational integration, the differences between Western and Eastern approaches to health and spirituality, and the role of language in defining spiritual concepts. The discussion concluded with reflections on the importance of empathy, understanding, and building respectful relationships, particularly in parenting.

Key Discussion Points

· Mental Health Challenges, Relationships and Authentic faith: Joe shared his current challenges and his ongoing struggles with mental health, including depression, PTSD, and bipolar symptoms. Jeremy shared his personal journey and perspective on relationships, community, and spirituality. He explained how his independent upbringing shaped his approach to friendships and his preference for a small, close group of friends over many acquaintances. The conversation touched on Jeremy’s philosophy of embracing both light and dark emotions, drawing parallels to the Star Wars character Luke Skywalker.

· Neuro-Relational Integration: Jeremy and Joe discussed the concept of neuro-relational integration, which Joe introduced as a scientific approach to understanding and integrating the brain, heart, and body. Joe recommended resources by Dr. Shaleen Kendrick, who studies this field, and explained how it can help individuals evolve and respond to situations in real-time. Jeremy compared this concept to an HRIS system, noting that the more effort one puts in, the more the system works for them.

· Religion vs Language; Spirituality vs Perspective: Jeremy and Joe discussed the nature of spirituality and religion, particularly how organized religion has diverged from its original, more connected form. Jeremy expressed skepticism about institutionalized religion and highlighted how language can create misunderstandings and conflicts when trying to define spiritual concepts. They agreed that while language can be challenging, it remains a powerful tool for exploring and expressing complex ideas. They also touched on the distinction between spirituality and organized religion, with Joe noting how religion can be corrupted by empire.

· Eastern vs Western Approaches to Health and Spirituality: They also touched on the differences between Western and Eastern approaches to health and spirituality, with Jeremy suggesting that Eastern cultures might be healthier due to their understanding of the interconnectedness of body, mind, and spirit.

· Parenting Perspectives and Relationship Building: Jeremy and Joe discussed the commonalities and differences among people, emphasizing the importance of understanding and empathy. They shared personal reflections on parenting, with Jeremy expressing admiration for Joe and Candice’s approach to raising their children. Joe shared his pride in his kids’ maturity and independence; despite the challenges they have faced.

Mentions

· https://trippfuller.com/

· https://substack.com/@homebrewedteam

· https://processthis.substack.com/

· https://substack.com/@shaleenkendrick

·

https://nrintegration.com/

Connect with the Show

* Email: [email protected]

* Website: getbehindmejesus.substack.com

* Bluesky: @getbehindmejesus.substack.com

Music: Dirty Gertie by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com

Episode 6 - ToGemmer Again (with Darin Gemmer)

Darin’s Back! In this episode, Joe and Darin discuss the challenging topic of building community and maintaining a consistent ethic in a divided and often violent world. Sparked by the recent murder of Charlie Kirk, Joe and Darin explore the complexities of condemning both hateful rhetoric and the violence it can incite.

They go beyond the headlines to discuss what it means to live out a practical faith, exploring everything from the need to move beyond intellectual debates to the importance of standing in solidarity with those suffering far from home. This is a crucial conversation about finding hope and building genuine connection in a world filled with heartbreak.

Key Discussion Points

* A Consistent Ethic in the Wake of Tragedy: Joe and Darin discuss the murder of Charlie Kirk and the need for a "consistent Jesus ethic" that condemns both hateful speech and violence. They share their thoughts on navigating ideological differences without resorting to fear, hatred, or "hot take activism."

* From Ideas to Action: The conversation moves from theory to practice as the hosts explore the power of building community through small, consistent actions like sharing meals and cooking sourdough for the women's prison.

* Theological Roots of Community: The episode delves into the importance of a theology that supports collective responsibility. Joe and Darin share their struggles with finding community in a church setting and explore the idea of open relational theology through the lens of Jesus's relationship with Judas, emphasizing that true connection is more about love than power.

* Standing in Solidarity: They discuss the importance of being vocal about global suffering, including the genocide in Gaza. Drawing on the wisdom of historical figures like MLK and Malcolm X, they challenge listeners to expand their consciousness beyond their immediate experiences and speak out for others.

Mentions

* https://substack.com/@jemartisby

* brianmclaren.net

Connect with the Show

* Email: [email protected]

* Website: getbehindmejesus.substack.com

* Instagram: @getbehindmejesus

* Bluesky: @getbehindmejesus.substack.com

Music: Dirty Gertie by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com

Summary

Randall Hartman grew up in the Church of the Nazarene and gave his life in service to the organization. But when he began to speak out about the Churches hottest topic, LGBT inclusion, he was tried for heresy. He stands among the likes of Dr. Tom Oord, Dr. Dee Kelley, and many others who have defied the denomination in services of its own core value: The doctrine of Holiness. Although few within its membership can articulate what holiness means, many are hell-bent on ejecting those who would offer a loving and inclusive perspective. As the organization unravels in increasingly chaotic spasms of hyper-exclusionary rhetoric and practices, they continue to unmoor themselves from the traditions they supposedly hold dear and instead align themselves with violent anti-queer Christian Nationalists. A fate so common among Evangelical groups, it’s hardly surprising – but to many is still so heartbreaking. As tragic and frustrating as his experience has been over the last few years, Randy says he’s not going anywhere. Still wondering whether a bridge can be built over these troubled waters, he reflects on a different time, one that was marked by love and community - the church he grew up in and hoped to pass on to his children and grandchildren. We talk about being immersed in the church, a calling to preach and serve, and all the people and places that came into his life. We tease his upcoming book “A God Awful God” and muse on whether the Church of the Nazarene will successfully weather this identity crisis. I am grateful for Randy’s patience and vulnerability as we navigated some extreme technical issues to bring you this episode. Although we don’t explore theology throughout our conversation, we examine his experiences in the shadow of that once compelling doctrine of holiness. For both of us, it all comes down to a matter of heart. I hope you enjoy this conversation, thanks for being here.*If you want to explore more about John Wesley, the quadrilateral model, the doctrine of holiness, or Open and Relational Theology and Process thought -I would point you once again to Tom Oord, who is extremely well educated and particularly articulate regarding their substance and practice. Properly understood, Holiness is the both the expression and evidence of a life well lived in relation to God and neighbor – it’s something this world still needs very much.

Resources and Mentions:

The Great Escape

Acts 26:16

Randallhartman.com

Randallhartmanphotography.com

Theology Beer Camp

https://thomasjayoord.com/

https://c4ort.com/

Music: Dirty Gertie by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com

Outline:

1. Growing up Catholic

2. Coming out and Navigating Identity

a. Navigating Family Dynamics

3. The emotional toll of Educating Others

a. Suicide

b. Workplace Challenges and acceptance

c. Advocacy and community connection through social media

4. Personal Journey and shared traumas

5. Navigating Spirituality and community

a. Finding peace in music and core beliefs

b. Deconstructing faith and understanding God

6. Advice for the journey ahead

Content warning:

explicit language, discussing suicide

Summary:

Joe is a work friend. We bonded early over our shared history of Catholicism and snarky attitude toward Church and Christians. Our conversations hinted at deep trauma and because he is an out gay man, I rightly assumed the that his religious experience was largely negative. But the more I got to know him the more I could see his resilience. He didn’t let the Church or various people determine his fate for him. His strong sense of self-reliance and self-determination has allowed him to navigate religious persecution and shame in a way that radiates strength and character. As with many of my LGBTQ friends, I am in awe of the commitment to love and truth that reflects the gospel message better than anything either my Catholic or Evangelical upbringing gave me. I’m grateful to Joe for both his vulnerability and enthusiasm and I hope that you enjoy this conversation!

Resources and Mentions:

https://www.instagram.com/jphromania1991

https://music.apple.com/us/album/kpop-demon-hunters-soundtrack-from-the-netflix-film/1820264137

https://www.theologybeercamp2025.com/

Suicide help:

Help is available

Speak with someone today

988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline

Languages: English, Spanish

Hours: Available 24 hours

https://www.thetrevorproject.org/get-help/

Music: Dirty Gertie by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com

Outline:

1. The Evolution of Evangelicalism

a. Cultural shifts in Evangelical thought

b. Empathy and compassion in Theology

2. Authority of Scripture in Process Theology

3. Salvation and Pluralism in Religious Traditions

4. Holiness as Love

5. The Insights of Religion

6. Christians in a Decadent Culture

a. Addressing Cultural Differences

b. Personal vs. Systemic Responsibility

7. Christian Formation and Spirituality

8. God’s Activity and Human Experience

a. The Nature of God

b. Hope and Universal Salvation

Summary:

Dr. Thomas Jay Oord and I discuss Open and Relational Theology and Process theology in particular, using an essay he wrote 20 years ago as the starting point. Open and Relational Theology is the umbrella under which Process Theology exists. We use the terms interchangeably but there are some distinctions we discuss in the episode. Primarily those distinctions have to do with God’s Nature.

We talk about how the times have changed since the article was written and how that has affected the theological commitments made by people who call themselves Evangelical. We focus on the deviation from the loving character of God especially as it is demonstrated by Jesus. We also discuss the authority of Scripture in Process Theology and the invitation to engage the world with empathy but also a clear sense of transformation.

Dr. Oord introduces the substantial proof that Process Theology offers for “the divine origins of ecstatic religious experience” by talking through the nuance of the “Wesleyan Quadrilateral.” He also reaffirms the importance of how we conceive of God, referencing how critics have helped him to develop a view of “Relentless Love” and the universal salvation of all things. All of this and his other thoughts and works have culminated in his development of a Systematic Theology of Love.

I am grateful to Dr. Oord for his unique articulation of these powerful ideas about a loving God and I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did. I look forward to having him back on the show!

Resources and Mentions:

https://thomasjayoord.com/index.php/blog/archives/process_and_wesleyan_theologies

https://thomasjayoord.com/index.php/blog/archives/open-and-process-theologies-blur

https://substack.com/@thomasjayoord/posts

https://www.theologybeercamp2025.com/

Music:

Dirty Gertie by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com

Outline:

1. Deconstruction Story

a. Religious practices growing up

b. Community character growing up

c. Led to camp but also continued through and because of camp

2. CAMP/ Sacred Space

a. Hospitality

b. Teamwork

c. Labor/hard work

d. Building community

* Summer Staff

* May2019 – June2020

e. Stewardship, significance, sacred space

3. Online Community - Parenting through Faith Shifts

a. “question the church is struggling to answer: how do we sustain [these] communities?”

b. People wanted to continue but stopped showing up

4. Seven Song Salon

a. Idea from “Throw away line from a podcast with Priya Parker. “The art of Gathering”

* Read for interest in being better at hospitality

b. Best example of organic community forming around affinity

c. Characteristics in which the community is grounded?

5. Bounded set vs Centered Set

a. Affinities

b. “I think it’s easier to build a community around what you’re for, rather than what you’re against…I think what you’re against can rally a short-term conversation or community, but there’s only so much energy you can generate from what you’re against.”

c. Identifying yourself and community coalescing around what you’re against (not enough to hold group together) “there’s only so long you can be outraged…before you have to move on to the hard work of actually building something.”

d. Two components that have to be present

* Center to gather around

* Co-creation/co-ownership

6. Themes throughout

a. Privilege and advocacy

* Acknowledging privilege and proactively centering others

b. Talking about what we’re against vs what we’re for

* Communities can coalesce around one, but can’t be sustained without the other

c. Hospitality and community

* Service and self-sacrifice

d. Reconciliation

* Humility, healing, boundaries

Summary:

Discussing community building (the art of gathering) with my long time friend Darin Gemmer. We walk through Darin’s story of finding religion and then deconstructing from it’s toxicity while holding on to the value of hospitality. We talk about hospitality and co-creation as the primary ingredients for a sustainable community. Hospitality is a value that Darin has held through the best and worst of many jobs through out his career and something he believes might just help us recover from the profound separation we are experiencing as people individually and collectively.

Notes/Mentions:

https://www.priyaparker.com/book-art-of-gathering

https://jaaronsimmons.com/camping-with-kierkegaard

https://www.warmbeach.com/

https://campindianola.org/

https://www.theologybeercamp2025.com/

https://www.joshuagpatterson.com/

When I asked Josh what keeps him going on his journey, what enlivens him, he shared this wonderful gem.If you know him from his show, you know this sentiment is consistent.I agree wholeheartedly that Love is worth risking our finitude!Listen to the episode for more good stuff!

Music: Dirty Gertie by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com

Outline:

1. Identity Crisis in the Church

2. The role of Community

a. Creating non-judgmental space

b. The interconnectedness of Creation/ the Illusion of separation

3. Wrestling with Trauma

4. Theopoetics and ecological justice

5. Hope and co-creation with the divine

a. Love as the core of Existence

Content warning:

explicit language, discussing suicide

Summary:

It’s the very first Episode of Get Behind Me Jesus! A podcast for progressive Christians and “Spiritual-not-religious folks” looking to get away from the toxic ideas of a whitewashed faith and explore the more authentic person and teachings of Jesus and other religious experiences. I hope that you enjoy my conversation with my first Guest, Josh Patterson (that’s right) the host of (Re)Thinking Faith – he’s a pretty damn cool dude.

We talk about a variety of things as you can see in the outline, but it really all comes down to love. Despite our individual trauma, we have come to hold a faith that is resilient and flexible – not afraid of ambiguity, but embracing the opportunities (and lure) to know the divine better and explore the interconnectedness of the cosmos.I’m thankful for Josh, his willingness to help me kick things off, and more than that, his openness and vulnerability – it’s what makes him so good at what he does. Check out the (Re)Thinking Faith podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and join us on Substack where we create additional content and community.

https://substack.com/@rethinkingfaith

https://substack.com/@getbehindmejesus

Also, check out Theology Beer Camp at https://www.theologybeercamp2025.com/

Resources and Mentions:

Billie Hoard - https://substack.com/@billieiswriting

”Jesus and the Abolitionists” - https://www.broadleafbooks.com/store/product/9798889830818/Jesus-and-the-Abolitionists

“Sex, God, and Rock 'n' Roll” - https://www.augsburgfortress.org/store/product/9781506409061/Sex-God-and-Rock-n-Roll-Catastrophes-Epiphanies-and-Sacred-Anarchies

https://simon-critchley.com/

Suicide help:

Help is available

Speak with someone today

988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline

Languages: English, Spanish

Hours: Available 24 hours

https://www.thetrevorproject.org/get-help/

Sending a call into the Universe for Rob Bell, Pete Holmes, Peter Rollins, Richard Rohr, Brian McLaren, Tripp Fuller and many many more. Each of these thinkers has pioneered deconstruction/reconstruction in various spaces and they have had an irrevocable impact on many people - including me.

But whether or not you’re familiar with my guests - theologians, philosophers, educators, and regular folks all have compelling stories and questions to share. And those stories and questions about life, the universe, and everything are the reason we’re here together. (yes that’s a reference to The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.)

You’re invited on this journey with me.I love to share the stories and ideas that invigorate them and hopefully inspire you. We’ll talk about books or other projects, we’ll talk about music, movies, pop culture or other things. We’ll pull the thread that connects all these things together -exploring the reasons for why they believe what they do about the Divine, creation, and our place in all this.Regardless of who is speaking or what is the topic, this space is about helping to identify the various concepts and motivations that have led you on a spiritual journey that takes you off traditional paths and into new territory.

This is a podcast for the spiritually curious.

It’s not about the answers per se, but about the questions and experiences in which we all have a sense of something greater, something better than what we have been taught in the systems from which we are detangling ourselves.

I’m glad that you’re here.

Music: Savour The Moment by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com

-Deconstruction from religious tradition

-What it means too be spiritual and not religious

-Stories of religious trauma and exploration of its impact

-Exploring and learning from indigenous spiritualities

-Finding community in the midst of deconstruction/reconstruction

-How music, movies, and pop culture shape our individual and collective identities

While it is impossible to approach these topics unbiased, I’ll be honest about the particular experiences and specific trauma that motivate me.

The goal is to help you have a sense of clarity and confidence in what you believe and what you are looking for in a community and empower you to help shape that community. Creating safe space to explore those topics and connect with the ideas of various people is just one of the primary ways we can achieve that.

Music: Savour The Moment by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com