Getting Unstuck – Cultivating Curiosity

Guest Katie DeBonville's first book, Grace Notes, a memoir of essays in which music is the throughline, was published in May 2026. A Massachusetts native who has enjoyed a career in fundraising for arts organizations, she holds degrees in music from Bucknell University and New England Conservatory and earned her MFA from Lesley University. When not writing, she enjoys attending concerts, browsing in independent bookstores, and a good glass of wine. Summary

Katie discusses her Banned Book Week Substack series, which examines some of hr favorite books that have been banned or challenged, from Nancy Drew and Judy Blume to Amy Tan and Harry Potter. She finds that many of the reasons books were banned decades ago—discomfort with authority, sexuality, race, trauma, and marginalized identities—remain relevant today. Her essential point: rather than hiding difficult subjects, we should confront them through reading, conversation, and critical thinking.

Social Media & Referenced

Overview https://www.ala.org/bbooks/banned

Books most often banned https://www.lib.umich.edu/about-us/news/banned-books-week-2026-october-4-10/

Top 10 Most Often Challenged 2026 https://www.ala.org/bbooks/frequentlychallengedbooks/top10

Description of the 10 Most Often Banned Books https://bookresumes.uniteagainstbookbans.org/

The Spirit Catches You and You Fall Down by Anne Fadiman

The Librarians film

Trailer

Podcast episode on the Nazi book burning on May 10, 1933, and the underground memorial

Grace Notes: A Musical Memoir by Katie DeBonville

Guest

Jack Green has been fascinated by history since childhood. That lifelong interest has taken him on a journey across the UK and Europe, exploring places connected to 20th-century history. He is particularly drawn to locations where the past is still visible today, especially those that bear the scars and traces of the Blitz, a key part of British History during the Second World War.

Summary

The Blitz was a sustained strategic bombing campaign by Nazi Germany against the U.K. during World War II, lasting from September 7, 1940, to May 16, 1941. It was intended to break British morale. In this conversation, Jack Green explores the Blitz through the physical remnants still visible across London and other cities—from bomb-damaged churches and a surviving fireplace to air-raid shelters and memorials.

Jack explains how he uses short-form social-media videos to bring these stories to younger audiences. His essential point is that history becomes more meaningful when we connect with the actual places and firsthand experiences of the people who lived through it.

Links

Tiktok - The Past Brought to Life

Instagram - The Past Brought to Life

The Blitz: The British Under Attack by Juliet Gardiner

Forgotten Voices of the Blitz and the Battle of Britain by Joshua Levine

Referenced (images at https://www.queticocoaching.com/blog)

1. St Dunstan in the East Church Garden

2. St. Mary le Strand church

3. Vincent Street fireplace in Westminster The Vincent Street Fireplace (click on this link)

Guest Diane Boyd began working with wolves in Minnesota in 1976 and continues to do so today. She has authored more than 50 publications on wolves, including her recent memoir, A Woman Among Wolves. Her work has focused on wolf ecology, conservation, and resolving wolf-human conflict. Summary

Diane Boyd's lifelong study of wolves has taken her from a young, "starry-eyed" researcher tracking and collaring wolves to a scientist focused on the human dimensions of wolf conservation. She argues that wolves are neither demons nor angels, but simply another remarkable wildlife species. Boyd emphasized the importance of understanding wolves' social behavior and how human actions affect their populations.

Her essential point is that wolf recovery and management are ultimately about people: changing perceptions, challenging myths, understanding fear, and helping the public engage with the science.

Our conversation discusses several questions: • What Do We Really Understand About Wolves? • Are Wolves Really the Animals We Think They Are?• What Can Wolves Teach Us About Ourselves? • Why Do People Fear Wolves? • Can Science Change the Way We See Wolves? • How Do We Open Minds About Wolves?

Social Mediahttps://www.dianekboyd.com/home

Referenced

Lone Wolf by Adam Weymouth

A Woman Among Wolves by Diane Boyd

Research

• Noxon Elk Study: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5ce8pKyGRMQ

Key Findings & Data

According to recent annual project updates from Montana FWP:

• Herd Stability: Despite hunter concerns, data indicates that the elk population in the area is stable to slightly increasing.

• Primary Predators: While wolves get significant attention, the data shows that mountain lions and black bears actually account for the highest predation rates on both adult elk and newborn calves. Wolves account for a smaller fraction of the kills.

• Calf Survival: Elk calf survival rates have averaged around 32% over a longer span, but recent years have shown spikes closer to 50%, which is strong enough to maintain or slowly grow the herd.

• Non-Predatory Mortality: Predation isn't the only pressure; a notable portion of monitored calf mortality is also attributed to malnutrition and starvation during tough winter months.

• The "Private Land" Shift: The tracking data reveals that elk alter their behavior to avoid heavy threat environments, often shifting their seasonal distribution away from heavily hunted public lands onto secure, private land pockets.

• Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation: https://rmef.org/media/scientists-students-study-a-changing-montana-elk-population/

Summary Sarah Jakle teaches high school girls practical civic and public-policy skills, along with neuroscience-based tools for confidence, resilience, and leadership. Her central point is that young women often "count themselves out" at critical moments because of imposter syndrome, anxiety, and social pressures. By learning to recognize their inner critic, engage their "inner best friend," and regulate their nervous systems, they can move toward opportunity rather than away from it. Guest

Sarah Jakle is the Founder and Executive Director of DemocraShe, a nonpartisan national nonprofit empowering historically underserved high school girls to be our future leaders, voters, civically engaged citizens, and elected officials.

Previously, Sarah served as the Get Out the Vote Director for the California National Organization for Women and as the National Outreach Director for Field Team 6, leading efforts to mobilize women and innovative voter registration.

Sarah has a Bachelor's from Yale (Phi Beta Kappa), a Master's in Social Work from USC, and a Master's in Public Policy from UCLA. She was a 2025 Movement Builder Fellow with How Women Lead and was a Fellow with Obama's Organizing For Action.

Social Media & Referenced

[email protected]

https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-jakle-535617240?utm_source=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=member_ios

https://www.facebook.com/sarah.jakle.3?mibextid=wwXIfr&mibextid=wwXIfr

https://www.instagram.com/sarahjakle?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ%3D%3D&utm_source=qr

Learn more about the "Inner Best Friend," which is one of the main DemocraShe skills.

https://www.instagram.com/innerbestfriend?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

The Year of Yes by Shonda Rhimes.

For more about Grounding

Guest Amirah Cummings is the founder of KIO: Kids In Orbit™ and the creator of Kionaut, a learning ecosystem that helps young people cultivate curiosity, think like innovators, and develop the mindset to shape the future through STEM, storytelling, and meaningful exploration. Summary

Amirah Cummings is building KIO: Kids in Orbit™, an educational ecosystem designed to help children learn how to think, not just what to think. Rooted in multilingualism, storytelling, technology, and curiosity, KIO aims to help young people become capable, curious, compassionate problem-solvers who can navigate an unpredictable future. Rather than asking children what they want to be when they grow up, Amirah believes education should cultivate who they are becoming right now, giving them agency and encouraging them to ask bigger questions.

Her approach combines story-driven learning, augmented reality, literacy, STEM, and mission-based activities in which students must apply what they have learned to solve problems or create something. She is particularly interested in using AI as a thinking partner rather than an answer machine. Kio's "Think with AI" feature prompts AI to guide exploration, encourage deeper questioning, and help learners discover questions they have not yet considered.

Amirah argues that traditional educational structures and metrics often fail to cultivate this mindset. In a rapidly changing world, she believes curiosity, adaptability, self-knowledge, and the ability to think differently will be more important than simply mastering a prescribed curriculum.

The Essential Point

Education should prepare children not for a particular future career, but to become the kind of thinkers who can create and navigate an unknowable future. Curiosity and agency, she argues, are more valuable than simply accumulating knowledge.

Social Mediakiolearning.com

kionaut.com

@kiospaceforce

@kionaut

Amirah's email: [email protected]

About Jeff

Jeff Ikler is the Director of Quetico Leadership and Career Coaching. "Quetico" (KWEH-teh-co). He works with leaders in all aspects of life to identify and overcome obstacles in their desired future. He came to the field of coaching after a 35-year career in educational publishing. Prior to his career in educational publishing, Jeff taught high school U.S. history and government.

Jeff has hosted the "Getting Unstuck—Cultivating Curiosity" podcast for 5 years. The guests and topics he explores are designed to help listeners think differently about the familiar and welcome the new as something to consider. He is also the co-host of the Cultivating Resilience – A Whole Community Approach to Alleviating Trauma in Schools, which promotes mental health and overall wellness.

Jeff co-authored Shifting: How School Leaders Can Create a Culture of Change. Shifting integrates leadership development and change mechanics in a three-part change framework to help guide school leaders and their teams toward productive change.

Guest For more than 25 years, Dr Nigel Perrin has been fascinated by the history of Occupied Paris and those who secretly fought the Nazis. He has shared his unique knowledge of the city's hidden spaces and places with thousands of private clients. He is the author of The Spy Who Betrayed, a biography of Mathilde Carré, and Spirit of Resistance, the story of a British agent in Occupied France. Summary

Historian Dr. Nigel Perrin explores the extraordinary and disturbing life of Mathilde Carré, a French resistance leader whose wartime career defies easy categorization. Carré, later known as "the Cat," had no espionage experience before World War II, but the German occupation gave her an opportunity to reinvent herself. She helped create the Inter-Allied Network, which became one of the largest and most sophisticated resistance networks in occupied France.

Yet Carré's commitment to the resistance was deeply intertwined with her own ambitions, fantasies, and desire for recognition. When she was captured by the Germans, that carefully constructed identity collapsed. Within 48 hours, she was cooperating with her captors, eventually helping destroy her own network and betraying 35 agents. She even became romantically involved with her German interrogator, Hugo Bleicher, before later helping British intelligence deceive the Germans and escape to London.

Perrin's research avoids easy psychological or moral conclusions. Carré never expressed genuine remorse and spent the rest of her life trying to rehabilitate her reputation. Her story raises an unsettling question: when fantasy collides with reality under extreme pressure, who are we really? It also challenges the notion of a unified French "Resistance," revealing a fragile collection of improvised networks that depended on trust, luck, and trial and error.

The Essential Point

Mathilde Carré's story is ultimately less about her being a resistance spy and traitor than about the collision between the person she imagined herself to be and who she proved to be when reality tested her. Her story also forces us to confront an uncomfortable question: What would we do under the same pressure?

Social MediaLinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/nigelperrin http://www.linkedin.com/in/nigelperrin> Book links: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Nigel-Perrin/author/B002B4NPHS https://www.casematepublishers.com/9781036144555/the-spy-who-betrayed/ Inquiries: [email protected]

Mail: [email protected]

"Your Paris" by Ted Hughes

Guests Tomelle Greenfield holds a Bachelor's degree in Elementary Education and a Master's degree in Applied Behavior Analysis. As a Strobel Education Consultant, behavior specialist, and co-developer of the ROOTS Framework, she partners with schools to build proactive, relationship-centered systems that improve student behavior, educator confidence, and lasting outcomes. As a former teacher turned speaker and happiness coach, Kim Strobel helps schools, businesses, and organizations prioritize happiness and well-being so they can overcome fears, discover joy, activate limitless potential, and boldly pursue their dreams. She is the author of Teach Happy. Summary

Tomelle and Kim argue that schools need to rethink how they understand and respond to student behavior. Rather than treating behavior as a problem to be managed after it occurs, they see it as communication and believe schools should create conditions that prevent dysregulation in the first place. Their ROOTS approach brings together practices that are often treated as separate initiatives—including trauma-informed practices, social-emotional learning, restorative practices, Positive Behavioral Interventions and Supports, Multi-Tiered System of Supports, relationship building, and classroom management—into a coherent system.

A central theme is the importance of relationships and regulation. Dysregulated students cannot learn effectively, and simply removing them from class or imposing consequences does not teach the skills they lack. Teachers, too, need support in learning to regulate themselves and model those skills for students.

Tomelle and Kim believe schools need to move from "doing" to "being": these practices should become part of the everyday culture, not another set of initiatives. Consistent coaching, common expectations, adult support, and preventative systems are essential. Ultimately, their message is that healthy schools begin with healthy relationships—and that connection and accountability can coexist.

The Essential Point

Behavior management shouldn't be something schools do to students after problems arise; it should be woven into how schools operate every day. Relationships, regulation, consistency, and prevention create the conditions in which students—and teachers—can learn and thrive.

Social Media & Referenced

Roots Behavior Framework

The First 100 Days of School

Connections Over Compliance

Guest Dr. Tara Bishop has led the Perry Central Community Schools as superintendent for six years, but she's been part of the school community her whole life. Tara expands innovative career programs and grant-funded community services while cultivating a collaborative culture that supports teachers and administrators as the heart of every school. As a former teacher turned speaker and happiness coach, Kim Strobel helps schools, businesses, and organizations prioritize happiness and well-being so they can overcome fears, discover joy, activate limitless potential, and boldly pursue their dreams. She is the author of Teach Happy. Summary

Dr. Bishop describes Perry Central Community Schools as deliberately rethinking what education should prepare students to do. Rather than treating college as the only pathway to success, Perry Central gives every student access to career and technical education, internships, project-based learning, and opportunities to develop skills such as critical thinking, problem-solving, collaboration, adaptability, and communication. Students choose pathways but can change direction, while internships and capstone experiences are tailored to their interests and aspirations.

One striking example is a Habitat for Humanity project in which engineering students design a house, construction students build it, and the completed home goes to a local family—giving students authentic experience, technical knowledge, empathy, and a sense of purpose.

Dr. Bishop acknowledges that innovation exists within significant constraints: standardized testing, traditional college expectations, limited resources, and teachers' lack of time for collaboration. She also emphasizes that innovative learning cannot replace foundational knowledge; students need something to draw upon when solving problems. Ultimately, she argues for an educational system that honors individual strengths, connects learning to meaningful purposes, and gives teachers the support and freedom to make that possible.

The Essential Point

Dr. Bishop's essential point is that schools should stop defining success by a single pathway and instead help each student discover how their particular strengths and interests can contribute meaningfully to the world. That requires both strong foundational knowledge and authentic opportunities to apply it.

Social Media & Referenced

Perry Central Community Schools

www.StrobelEducation.com

www.KimStrobel.com

The Knowledge Gap by Natalie Wexler

Summary

The episode explores how constraints can become a powerful catalyst for innovation rather than an obstacle to it. Drawing on my experience leading an innovation initiative in educational publishing, I describe "in-the-box innovation," a systematic approach that modifies existing products and resources instead of relying on unfettered brainstorming.

The episode argues that solutions are often contained within the problem itself—a principle illustrated by a high-school program designed to address the shortage of teachers of color and by the World War II Corsair, whose dangerous landing problem was solved by altering lift on the opposite wing rather than redesigning the aircraft.

Constraints, Jeff argues, clarify priorities, reduce the number of competing possibilities, and force creative thinking. He concludes by applying the principle personally, noting that limiting the information he consumes through social media has improved his attention and comprehension.

The central idea

Constraints aren't necessarily barriers to innovation—they can be the very conditions that make innovation possible. By limiting our options, constraints force us to focus, rethink what we already have, and discover solutions that might otherwise remain hidden.

Connect / Referenced

Inside the Box: How Constraints Make Us Better by David Epstein

Systematic Inventive Thinking

Podcast interviews with Systematic Inventive Thinking

Guest

Nick Parish is a writer, angler, and educator in Portland, Oregon. He's the editorial voice behind Current Flow State, a publication and member community aimed at helping people make fly fishing a bigger part of their life.

Summary

Fly fishing instructor, writer, and educator Nick Parrish joins me for a conversation that quickly moves beyond techniques and equipment into the philosophy of fly fishing and what it can teach about living well. Drawing inspiration from the writings of John Gierach, Nick argues that fly fishing is less about catching fish than cultivating attentiveness, curiosity, creativity, and meaningful relationships—with rivers, wildlife, fellow anglers, and oneself.

Nick explains how his own teaching emphasizes observation before action, encouraging students to slow down, study the water, and immerse themselves in the environment rather than rushing to make the first cast. He advocates a minimalist approach to gear, believing that skill, versatility, and creative problem-solving matter far more than accumulating expensive equipment. Throughout the conversation, Nick and I reflect on several memorable John Gierach quotations, using them as springboards to discuss mindfulness, companionship, conservation, and the restorative power of time spent outdoors.

The discussion also explores the ethical tension inherent in catch-and-release fishing. Nick acknowledges the paradox of loving fish while pursuing them, arguing that responsible anglers must balance that tension through conservation, habitat restoration, and sound fisheries management. He describes experiments such as fishing without hooks and emphasizes that the future of fly fishing depends on protecting the ecosystems that sustain it.

Ultimately, Nick and I conclude that fly fishing is best understood as a creative, deeply attentive way of engaging with the natural world—one in which the journey, the place, and the experience matter far more than the number of fish caught.

A key takeaway

Fly fishing is a practice of attention. When we slow down, observe deeply, and engage creatively with the natural world, the fish become only one part of a much richer experience of connection, learning, and stewardship.

References / Links

Ihttp://www.currentflowstate.com/subscribe

http://www.currentflowstate.com/immerse

https://shop.currentflowstate.com/b/deschutes-ribbon-map-dra-benefit

https://bsky.app/profile/nickparish.bsky.social

https://www.instagram.com/currentflowstate/

John Gierach Quotes