Getting Work To Work

How curious are you about asking and reflecting upon the deep questions of life? You know, massive questions like, “How do you think about a life worth living?” or “What kind of people are we becoming as individuals and as a community by employing any given technology?” Today’s guest on Getting Work To Work is no stranger to asking these questions of himself, his guests on his podcast, and the students in his classroom. Lee C. Camp is a theologian, professor and host of the acclaimed No Small Endeavor podcast. In our conversation, we dive into the origin of why he takes the big questions seriously. We touch on technology and science, discipline and willpower, being present in the moment, and healthy rhythms of life. Lee also shares how podcasting has shaped his work as an academic, how he creates space in conversations, and what he’s learned about life chasing cumulus clouds in the cockpit of a sailplane.

“We should ask ourselves the question: What kind of people are we becoming as individuals and as a community by employing any given technology?” – Lee C. Camp

Every night before I go to bed, I grab my journal and spend a few minutes writing about the day. Some days there’s a lot to say, while others recount what I wasn’t able to get done. Lately, I’ve noticed a trend. I list four or more things I got done and then follow up with a dismissive statement, “I just wasn’t productive.” If you compare the ambition of my task list with what was actually accomplished, then yes, something is off. But it’s not a lack of productivity, it’s over-scheduling my day. Sure, I could dive into why I do this, but a more interesting question is this: How much of my day is filled with trash?

How would you define your level of ambition? Are you pushing yourself to change the world or maybe you’re on the other side of failure wondering if you’ll ever be ambitious again? Today’s guest is on Getting Work To Work to talk about a new way to approach our goals, not just in work, but in life. It’s called Sustainable Ambition®. Kathy Oneto is a coach, author, and podcaster whose mission “is to help people craft a life with work for more joy, fulfillment, peace, and ease.” Definitely sounds like something most of us need. In this conversation we talk about several of the principles in her new book, Sustainable Ambition: How to Prioritize What Matters to Thrive in Life and Work: Growing into ourselves and our values, worthy work, life-work sustainability, burnout, and four anchors for redefining success.

“How do we redefine success and create opportunities for people where we all feel like we can contribute?” – Kathy Oneto

Not much in the world of work shocks me anymore, but this headline on LinkedIn got me: “The rise of the ‘infinite workday.'” Naturally, I clicked the juicy headline. I had to find out which level of hell this monstrosity came from and what we can do about it. The “reactions” are to an article on Axios (two letters shy of Anxious) by Emily Beck titled Remote work has created an infinite workday. Covering a report from Microsoft, Beck describes a world of work without boundaries, the allure of flexibility, work spanning multiple time zones, pings, dings, distractions—and since it’s Microsoft—the savior of the day? AI. While I’m curious how I can avoid an infinite workday in my own business, I have to ask, what did we expect from a business world driven by profit alone?

The starving artist mentality is alive and well in 2025 as artists are told they’ll never make a living from their work. But today’s guest is living proof that’s a lie. Tim Packer is a former police officer turned celebrated Canadian artist and teacher, who walked away from the badge, cashed in his pension and went all-in on his creative dream. Tim is a natural storyteller and unfolds his entire creative journey for us in this episode. He shares the decisions that led him to becoming a police officer, the tragedy that turned his life toward art, the conversations he had with his wife at inflection points throughout his career, and many other lessons we can all learn from as we build our creative businesses.

Have you ever gotten an email from a faceless global corporation and marveled at how it uses words to its advantage? I’m not talking about the legalese in Terms & Conditions or Privacy Policies—we’re all going to click Yes anyway—but the emails justifying prices increases. I can’t even imagine how much money is spent on lawyers and marketers drafting the obligatory price increase email, but that’s besides the point. Today, I’m going on a rant inspired by the faceless global corporations and the forced adoption of AI and other technologies that drive up the cost of doing business. But after the rant, I take an all-too-brief detour through some social criticism courtesy of Neil Postman, who also provided the amazing title for today’s episode in his book, Technopoly: The Surrender of Culture to Technology.

As someone who sits at a desk for long periods of time every day, I was intrigued when today’s guest reached out with an offering of “3-Keys to Awaken Sensuality In The Midst Of The AI Era.” I was a little confused at first, thinking about sensuality in terms of sexuality, but then I got curious. Candia Raquel is a biologist, sensualist, and artist and she’s on the show to help us get connected with our bodies, while we get our work to work. She defines sensuality as simply being aware of the sensations of your body. Our conversation begins with a deep dive into pleasure and pain, and why one is more appropriate in society than the other. She talks about connecting with our bodies through breath and sighs, how to embody ourselves in a digital world that is increasingly 2-dimensional, and what she has learned from contemplating the trees. And yes, she provides the three keys to unlock sensuality.

I never considered myself an obsessive person until recently, but in reflection, it’s always been part of my life. It’s like the cognitive bias called the frequency illusion—officially the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon—where you observe something, like a certain type of car, and then see it everywhere. Obsession is part of me, past and present. When I’m working on a project, whether a short film or changing the exhaust fan in my bathroom, it shows up early and often. I try to visualize how everything will play out. I research what I don’t know—poring over instruction manuals, books, and videos—then update my visualization. This behavior has served me well in the past, but lately I’ve noticed an increase in rumination and anxiety. What if there was something I could do to offload my obsession, so I can have some peace and learn to trust myself in the process?

A quote from After the Ecstasy, the Laundry: How the Heart Grows Wise on the Spiritual Path by Jack Kornfield: “The true task of spiritual life is not found in faraway places or unusual states of consciousness: It is here in the present. It asks of us a welcoming spirit to greet all that life presents to us with a wise, respectful, and kindly heart.”

Whenever I talk to people that come at life and business in a unique way, I get excited. Today’s guest’s business is called The Uncommon Way and says everything about the type of conversation with are going to have today. Jenna Harrison helps highly-driven women create the business that will be their legacy. Sounds awesome, right? In our conversation, she shares what she learned about the need for meaning in her work when she dropped out of the rat race in her 20s and how that shaped the business and life she has built since then. We talk about the power of constraints, how we can train our minds, why we overwork when we know it doesn’t work, and her five-step process that high-level entrepreneurs can use to rewire their brains and nervous systems to break past revenue plateaus.

“It’s not about the hours that we make, it’s about the value we create.” – Jenna Harrison

How do you know that when your moment shows up, you’ll be ready? Earlier this week, I met up with a friend for tea. I purposely waited to record my monologue because I knew something good would come from our conversation; it always does. My friend is widely creative and curious; he is into everything. He uses digital tools to create analog art. At one point, he talked about developing your craft and the importance of toiling in obscurity. You’ve been doing the work. Day after day. Year after year. No awards. Little recognition. Just the casual amassing of a body of work. That’s how you know you’ll be ready when your moment shows up.