Giants Shoulder

Dr. Erik Bekkers is an associate professor in Geometric Deep Learning at the University of Amsterdam, an ELLIS Program Director, and one of the most original thinkers working at the intersection of mathematics, AI and consciousness.

He reverse-engineered how the human visual cortex processes reality using the geometry of curved spaces — then used those same principles to build AI architectures that outperform standard deep learning. He recently published a paper arguing that AI will never be conscious, introducing a framework called Biological Idealism.

Expect to learn why your brain lifts reality into a higher-dimensional space just to see a straight line, what autopoiesis is and why it might be the dividing line for consciousness, why psychedelics decreasing brain activity while increasing experience is a problem for materialism, why firing neurons are an appearance of experience not the cause of it, why AI leaders claiming machines might be conscious is dangerous, and much more

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Timestamps:

00:00 Why Erik Wrote the Biological Idealism Paper

02:00 The Materialist Bias in Society

04:23 Does a Machine Have Consciousness?

06:29 Can You Be a Materialist and Value Experience?

08:24 The Map vs The Terrain: What is Matter Really?

11:03 Bernardo Kastrup and the Path to Idealism

14:11 Psychedelics: Less Brain Activity, More Experience?

15:57 The Idealist Explanation of Neural Correlates

19:54 What Primes Someone Towards Idealism or Materialism?

24:17 Autopoiesis: The Self-Creation of Life

27:32 How Autopoiesis Works in an Idealist Framework

33:30 Where Physicalism and Idealism Actually Agree

41:15 Finding Common Ground Across Metaphysics

47:17 Why Are Some Creatures More Conscious Than Others?

50:18 Donut-Shaped Geometry in Brain Activity

54:46 Can Mathematics Ever Model Consciousness?

59:33 The Geometry of Experiences Explained

01:04:31 Continuity of Brain Structures Across the Animal Kingdom

01:06:03 Can We Make a Machine Autopoietic?

01:09:37 The Robot That Plugs Itself In: Is That Consciousness?

01:14:00 What Would You Do With 100 Billion Dollars?

01:20:20 Will We Ever See a Conscious Machine?

01:24:11 AI Propaganda and Emotional Manipulation

01:27:56 Hinton and Amodei: Is It Dangerous to Call AI Conscious?

01:31:43 The Ethics of Machine Consciousness Research

01:35:39 Animal Suffering, AI Spending and Asking the Right Questions

01:38:10 Closing Thoughts and Anna Ciaunica's Influence

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Welcome to Giant Conversations — a new format where top experts debate, discuss and unravel the biggest questions in science. Dr. Mark Solms is a neuropsychologist, psychoanalyst and author of The Hidden Spring. Dr. Ryan Smith is a computational neuroscientist at the Laureate Institute for Brain Research who builds mathematical models of how the brain predicts and feels.

Together they tackle the question: what does it take for a system to become conscious — and can we engineer it?

Expect to learn why consciousness might be raw feeling rather than complex cognition, why your cortex may not actually be conscious, what's architecturally missing from current AI that rules out consciousness, what a machine would need to genuinely feel something, where these two brilliant scientists agree and exactly where they clash, and much more…

Timestamps:

00:01 Introduction to the Giant's Debate

00:46 Mark Solms: What Makes a System Conscious?

05:31 Ryan Smith: The Cognitive Case for Consciousness

13:02 Where Mark and Ryan Agree and Disagree

17:32 The Selection Problem: What Gets to Be Conscious?

27:07 Can We Scientifically Prove Something Is Conscious?

30:02 Blindsight: Behaviour Without Experience

34:20 The Fish on Cocaine Problem

41:25 Different Meanings of Consciousness

54:57 How the Free Energy Principle Explains Consciousness

01:03:02 Ryan Smith: Taking Consciousness Out of Biology

01:12:17 How Do You Give a Computer Survival Needs?

01:18:20 The Brain in a Vat: Does the Body Actually Matter?

01:19:59 What Would Prove AI Is Conscious?

01:22:32 Mark Solms: Why He Believes We Can Build Consciousness

01:27:25 Why Current LLMs Have Zero Consciousness

01:30:36 Mark's Final Word: Goals Must Be Real

01:31:15 Rapid Fire with Ryan Smith

01:37:52 The Neuron Replacement Thought Experiment

01:42:10 Computation vs Architecture: A Middle Ground

01:44:06 Final Thoughts

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Chris Frith is a pioneering neuroscientist who helped launch the field of cognitive neuroscience — and his work has completely changed how we understand reality, consciousness, and mental illness.In this episode, you’ll learn why perception is just a controlled hallucination, how our brains build reality through social connection, why people with schizophrenia see the world differently, how consciousness evolved to help us coordinate with others, and why your sense of self might be an illusion shared to stay sane.

Timestamps:

02:12 What Is Consciousness? A Brain-Built Social Model

06:34 Predictive Processing and Why You Never Really See the World

11:29 Controlled Hallucinations: How the Brain Manufactures Reality

16:45 Optical Illusions, Schizophrenia, and Seeing Too Much

21:08 What Schizophrenia Teaches Us About the Nature of Belief

27:10 Social Models, Sanity, and the Idea of a Collective Mind

32:43 Consciousness as a Social Adaptation — Not a Solo Experience

38:50 Generative Models and the Brain’s Simulation Engine

45:02 Why Solitude Breaks the Mind and Social Sync Holds It Together

50:31 Can AI Be Conscious? What’s Missing From Machines

56:07 Free Will, Agency and the Brain’s Self-Narrative

01:00:45 The Myth of a Single Reality: Delusions, Politics and Group Models

01:06:58 Consciousness, Intelligence, and the AI Illusion

01:11:41 Why the Self Is Just a Useful Story

01:17:09 Do Octopuses Have Consciousness?

01:21:16 Where Does the Line Fall Between Conscious and Not?01:25:20 Frith’s Thoughts on the Future of Consciousness Research

01:30:03 AI, Prediction, and the Limits of Machine Minds

01:34:38 Final Reflections: Social Brains, Sanity, and Shared Reality

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William B. Miller Jr. is a Medical Doctor, Evolutionary Biologist, and author of Bioverse and co-author of The Sentient Cell — one of the most radical rethinks of biology published in decades.

Every cell in your body is conscious, intelligent, and making decisions right now. Evolution is not random. Cancer is not a genetic accident — it's a highly intelligent system we've been fighting completely wrong. And the central dogma of molecular biology, the foundation of modern medicine, is broken.Expect to learn why biology begins with intelligence not chemistry, why every cell has preferences goals and experiences, why natural selection is only half the story, how cancer cells are intelligent agents and why that changes everything about treatment, why genes are tools not bosses, why consciousness can never exist in silicon alone, and much more

Timestamps:

00:00:00 Introduction & The Biology Revolution Nobody Is Talking About

00:01:40 Biology Begins With the Intelligent Measuring Cell

00:05:09 Cognition All the Way Down: Is Even mTOR a Smart Molecule?

00:07:20 Are Viruses Intelligent? The Strange World of Social Virology

00:09:39 Defining Intelligence, Cognition and Consciousness

00:16:09 What Is True Biological Agency and Where Does It Begin?

00:17:20 The Constructal Law and The Biogenic Principle

00:21:09 What Separates a Biological Agent From a Machine

00:24:51 Free Will, Doubt and Why Miller Would Refuse To Stop Believing In Agency

00:28:20 The Stem Cell That Searches For Its Identity

00:44:55 The Toxoplasmosis Moment: The Medical Observation That Changed Everything

00:50:21 Slime Mould vs Water: How Do We Separate Agency From Gradient Descent?

00:53:49 Why We Stopped Having Children: States of Preference Are Running Evolution

00:56:06 Where Is Preference Encoded in a Cell?

01:03:30 The Senome: The Sensory Organ That Replaces Gene-Centric Biology

01:07:17 Why Crick's Central Dogma Was Wrong: Information Never Flows One Way

01:10:23 The Six Cellular Principles That Should Govern Human Ethics01:14:47 How Single Cell Consciousness Becomes One Unified Experience

01:18:16 Symbiogenesis, Mitochondria and The Birth of the Eukaryotic Cell

01:20:36 Why It Took 1.4 Billion Years For Multicellular Life To Appear01:28:09 Cognitive Selection: The Real Driver of Evolution

01:34:02 Michael Levin, Morphogenesis and Where the Body's Blueprint Actually Lives

01:39:47 You Never Truly Die: Your Intelligence Flows Back Into the River of Life

01:43:30 What Does All This Mean For Medicine, Biotech and Society?

01:45:50 Why Cancer Is Intelligent and We Are Fighting It Wrong

01:48:31 AI Cannot Be Conscious — And That Might Make It a Better Tool

01:49:21 The Future: Marrying AI to Conscious Biological Cells

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Dr. Julian Barbour is an independent theoretical physicist who has spent over sixty years working from a 17th-century farmhouse in Oxfordshire on the deepest question in physics — what is time? His answer: it doesn't exist.

He completed the project Newton declared impossible and Einstein never finished, built two bestselling books around it, and at 88 remains one of the most original thinkers alive.Expect to learn why the Wheeler-DeWitt equation implies the universe is frozen and nothing evolves, what Shape Dynamics is and why only ratios and relations are real, why your brain is a "time capsule" containing the complete illusion of a past, how consciousness might add all the colour and motion to a bare mathematical skeleton, why Newton's gravity might secretly be a theory of variety, and why Barbour believes quantum mechanics itself could be replaceable, and much more

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Timestamps:

00:00:00 What Is Time? Julian Barbour's Life Question

00:03:07 Weather Observer in the Canadian Arctic

00:05:31 The Dirac Article That Changed Everything

00:08:28 Phoning Paul Dirac at Cambridge

00:12:23 Why Dirac Rejected Four-Dimensional Spacetime

00:15:28 Hamilton, Quaternions and the Dublin Bridge

00:19:36 The Straw Poll with Hawking That Made Spanish Headlines

00:22:08 The Titanic Analogy for the Problem of Time

00:27:26 What the Wheeler-DeWitt Equation Actually Says

00:31:00 Time Capsules: Why Your Memories Don't Prove Time Passed

00:35:03 Flow States and the Experience of Time

00:37:08 The Kingfisher in Flight: Consciousness Plays the Movie

00:40:47 Psychedelics, Pollan and Consciousness

00:44:13 Materialism vs Idealism: Where Does Barbour Stand?

00:48:33 Complex Wavefunctions and the Born Density

00:53:16 The Three-Body Collision Problem

00:55:33 Leibniz, Monads and the Living Mirror of the Universe

00:58:10 "I Am the Universe Seen from My Point of View"

01:04:01 The Punchline: Gravity Equals Variety

01:08:43 Buzsáki and How the Brain Keeps Time

01:13:46 Did Science Take a Wrong Turn in 150 BC?

01:19:32 Barbour's Ontology: Points, Distances, Ratios — That's It

01:25:34 "Invisible Time Is a Monumental Lie"

01:28:08 What Was There Before the Universe?

01:31:46 Newton's Gravity as a Theory of Recognisability

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Dr. Michael Timothy Bennett is an award-winning AI researcher at the Australian National University and author of "How to Build Conscious Machines" — a mathematical blueprint for why anything is conscious and what it would take to engineer a machine that truly experiences the world.

Expect to learn why information processing feels like anything at all, how consciousness is built from a hierarchy of selves, why a fly has experience but a slime mold does not, why current AI is fundamentally incapable of consciousness, how cancer is an alignment problem between cells, what building a conscious machine actually requires, and much more

…Timestamps:

00:00 Why Does Information Processing Feel Like Anything?

01:05 The Cosmic Ord: How the Universe Deletes What Doesn't Work

03:59 Where is the Line Between Non-Conscious and Conscious?

05:53 Multi-Scale Competency: Cells, Organs, Organisms, Ecosystems

07:43 The First Order Self: Phenomenal Consciousness Explained

08:27 Access Consciousness: Predicting Your Prediction of Me

13:04 When Do Enough Abstraction Layers Produce Experience?

18:40 Liquid Brains vs Solid Brains: Ant Colonies and Human Networks

21:03 Bioelectricity: How Cells Signal and Cooperate

24:03 Human-AI Hybrids: Prosthetic, Cooperative and Integrated

30:30 Is There a Bottom to the Abstraction Stack?

37:07 Why a Single Thread CPU Will Never Feel Anything

40:56 Feeling Pain vs Knowing You Feel Pain

42:52 Do Dogs Model Your Mind?

46:58 The Paper He Wrote as a Joke That Won Best Student Prize

48:11 Cancer as a Breakdown in Cellular Cooperation

53:22 Why Elephants Don't Get Cancer and What That Means for AI

56:47 How Do You Actually Build a Conscious Machine?

01:01:36 Does a Tesla Robot Have Grounding?

01:04:17 Should We Build Conscious Machines?

01:06:46 If You Design a Robot to Love Cleaning Your Toilet

01:08:25 His Biggest Fears About the Future of AI

01:13:09 The Rise of Anti-Natalism and Losing Hope

01:14:34 The Library of Babel: Why Modern Life Feels Overwhelming

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Matt Segall is a process philosopher, Associate Professor at the California Institute of Integral Studies in San Francisco, and author of Physics of the World-Soul and Crossing the Threshold — two books arguing that consciousness isn't produced by the brain but is woven into the fabric of reality itself.

Expect to learn why there is no scientific evidence that consciousness exists, how one French philosopher broke Western science in 1637 and we still haven't fixed it, why the brain is a condition for consciousness but not the producer of it, what panpsychism actually claims and why it's making a serious comeback, why the hard problem of consciousness and the origin of life might be the same problem, what it might feel like to be water or a photon, how psychedelics reveal something philosophy has been saying for centuries, and much more…

Timestamps:

00:00 The Nature of Consciousness

02:52 Evidence and Experience

06:09 Consciousness and the Brain

09:09 Emergence vs. Production of Consciousness

12:11 Panpsychism and Process Philosophy

15:08 Information and Consciousness

17:47 Biopsychism and Early Consciousness

21:11 The Hard Problem of Consciousness

24:08 Subjectivity and Objectivity

27:06 The Role of Information in Reality

29:47 Consciousness and the Universe

48:25 The Relational Nature of Truth

51:10 Beyond Space and Time

54:55 The Self in a Panpsychist View

56:30 The Evidence for Panpsychism

01:00:01 Sociological Influences on Worldviews

01:03:34 Psychedelics and Consciousness

01:10:56 Navigating Reality and Hallucination

01:15:13 Falsification and Progress in Panpsychism

01:19:57 The Ethical Implications of Panpsychism

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Dr. Chris Fields is an independent researcher with one of the most extraordinary careers in modern science — from nuclear physics to decoding the first complete genome to quantum information theory — now collaborating with Michael Levin and Karl Friston to rewrite how we understand life and consciousness.His central claim: nothing in the universe has a real boundary. Every object you see — including yourself — is a decision, not a discovery.

Expect to learn how quantum theory became a theory of communication, why cells might be goal-directed agents, whether bacteria can experience space, and much more...

Timestamps:

00:00 The Evolution of a Scientific Career

02:06 Understanding Boundaries in Science

09:59 Quantum Information Theory Explained

14:55 Neurons and Quantum Communication

40:07 Collaboration and Implications in Biology

40:17 Exploring Biological Systems as Information Processors

43:44 Agentive Thinking in Biology

48:40 Understanding 3D Space Representation in Cells

56:14 Conscious Agent Theory and Information Exchange

01:15:02 Future Directions in Biological Communication Research

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Matt Ridley is an evolutionary biologist, bestselling science writer and author of eleven books including The Red Queen, Genome, The Rational Optimist and Viral: The Search for the Origin of COVID-19.

He co-investigated the origin of SARS-CoV-2 with molecular biologist Alina Chan — and what they found may be the biggest cover-up in the history of science. A secret Pentagon proposal describing the exact genetic manipulation that may have created the pandemic. Private messages showing virologists publicly denying a lab leak while privately admitting they thought it was likely. And an establishment that chose silence while millions died.

Expect to learn what a furin cleavage site is and why it stunned virologists worldwide, what the secret DEFUSE proposal reveals about the experiments happening in Wuhan, why the virus was suspiciously well-adapted to human lungs from day one, what the recently released Epstein files reveal about how a convicted sex offender directed research at Harvard and compromised elite science, why no major funding body has investigated the lab leak despite 25 million deaths, and much more…

Timestamps:

00:00 The Origins of COVID-19: A Lab Leak Theory

03:11 Investigating the Wuhan Institute of Virology

06:00 The Role of Genetic Engineering in Virus Research

09:08 The Furin Cleavage Site: A Key to Infectivity

11:58 The Defuse Proposal: A Shocking Revelation

14:51 The Pangolin Narrative: A Red Herring?

18:10 The Call for Transparency in Science

33:16 Controversies in Virus Origins

35:35 Evaluating Zoonotic Narratives

37:30 The Role of Markets in Virus Transmission

40:22 Lab Leaks vs. Natural Origins

42:05 Genetic Manipulation and Furin Cleavage

44:42 Passaging Theory and Virus Evolution

49:10 Implications of High Infectivity

51:22 Suspicion of Early Vaccine Development

54:48 The Need for Transparency

56:24 The Future of Gain of Function Research

01:00:57 The Lab Leak Hypothesis: Recklessness in Research

01:10:01 Trust in Science: The Impact of COVID-19 on Public PerceptionEpstein

01:20:20 Epstein's Influence: Compromising Science and Ethics

01:23:32 Reforming Science Funding: Addressing Systemic Issues

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Dr. Stuart Hameroff is an anesthesiologist, consciousness researcher, and co-creator of the Orch-OR theory — a radical and controversial model proposing that consciousness arises from quantum processes inside the brain’s microtubules.

For over 30 years, Dr. Hameroff has worked alongside Sir Roger Penrose to explore how the fundamental fabric of spacetime could give rise to awareness itself — and what that means for AI, life after death, and the mystery of subjective experience.

Expect to learn why microtubules inside neurons might be the real seat of consciousness, how anesthetics switch off awareness by dampening quantum vibrations, what happens to consciousness when the brain flatlines, why current AI models may never be truly conscious, how quantum coherence can persist in the warm, wet brain, what a "quantum soul" might actually mean, why critics have called this theory absurd — and how new research may finally be proving them wrong, how ultrasound could treat depression by targeting the roots of awareness, and much more...

Timestamps:

00:00 The Misconception of the Brain as a Computer

03:00 The Journey to Understanding Consciousness

05:51 Microtubules: The Key to Consciousness

09:00 Anesthesia and Its Role in Consciousness

11:51 The Historical Context of Anesthesia

15:06 The Mechanism of Anesthesia

18:01 The Quantum Nature of Anesthesia

21:06 The Role of Microtubules in Anesthesia

24:00 The Unitary Mechanism of Anesthesia

26:56 The Evidence Supporting Microtubules

30:02 The Future of Anesthesia Research

36:35 The Quest for Consciousness Evidence

37:42 Microtubules and Information Processing

39:15 AI, Neural Networks, and Consciousness

41:09 Roger Penrose and the Heart Problem

42:36 Gödel's Theorem and Quantum Physics

44:03 Superposition and Spacetime Curvature

46:54 Objective Reduction and Consciousness

49:16 Microtubules as Quantum Devices

51:30 Fibonacci Geometry and Consciousness

54:49 Integrating Biology and Physics

57:48 Criticism and Defense of the Theory

01:01:26 The Impact of the 1995 Paper

01:05:02 Decoherence in Biological Systems

01:07:11 Experimental Evidence for Quantum Effects

01:09:46 Conductance and Quantum Effects in Microtubules

01:11:41 Experiments and Anesthesia's Impact on Consciousness

01:14:06 The ORCH-OR Theory and Its Explanatory Power

01:18:41 Integrating ORCH-OR with Other Consciousness Theories

01:27:30 The Mechanism of Consciousness and Quantum Collapse

01:36:11 Free Will, Quantum Mechanics, and Consciousness

...

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