Glasgow Women's Library Podcast

Picture the scene: Glasgow is going through a rare but spectacular Sunny Week, and we can see her  blue skies through the windows. We are in the Community Room upstairs in the Glasgow  Women’s Library, and sitting across from each other at a table are me (Fi Johnston, volunteer at  GWL, enthusiastic but very unprofessional interviewer) and Aslı Tohumcu (author, to be properly  introduced below). Also in the room are Aslı Konaç, who works as a translator for many of Aslı’s  works, and Eilidh Akilade (Production Coordinator at GWL, and huge help to me when prepping  this interview). Between Aslı and myself is an audio recorder that frankly looks like a taser, so if you  prefer to listen to the less-edited audio of our conversation, that is also available. In this blogpost, I’ve collated some highlights from our conversation. You can also listen to the full podcast episode and download the transcript.

Aslı is an author whose work consistently champions women’s rights and gender equality, and also  children’s rights. Her recent work looks at feminist retellings of fairy tales and folklore, and she has  also worked as an editor, and a journalist, and an educator!  

AT Yeah, because I have to earn my living. It’s not easy to earn your living with just writing… I love  to be the educator, but editing and such stuff is not my thing anymore, I guess.  

— 

FJ Can you tell us about your previous experience here in the Women’s Library? 

AT Thanks to Creative Scotland and British Consulate in Turkey and Scotland, I was a Momentum  Literature delegate in Edinburgh [International Book Festival]. And then I’ve written a novel project combining  Scottish mythology with some feminist themes and Turkish fairy tales, and they accepted it. And  they gave me two weeks in Glasgow Women’s Library, to spend time here. So I came here, and I [made] the most of it. 

 I just worked, and worked, and worked. I was the first one to come into the library every day, and  I was writing all the time. With lots of beautiful women around me. That was a first for me. You  know, it was very important for me to be surrounded by women asking, “How is it going? Do you  need anything? It’s okay? Do you need some books?” And some of them were telling me stories.  Some of them were giving me books. So it was great. I mean, I haven’t seen any place other than  the library and my apartment and the Necropolis! I was just writing this novel. But it was great. It was like falling in love, you know.  

I was really happy, and I feel physically and emotionally really beautiful at that time. Yeah. And I was  younger. Two years younger. So… 

FJ The Women’s Library have a map online that you can follow that gives you the information  about the women that are in the Necropolis cemetery, did you follow that? 

AT Yeah, I used it. For like three hours or something like that. The gravestones, flowers, trees, and a  good view of Glasgow at the top! 

FJ What else could you need? 

AT Nothing! 

 — 

FJ Can you tell me a little bit more about that intersection between Scottish fairy tales and Turkish  folklore? Are there a lot of intersections? Do they weave together or quite disparate? 

AT In a way, no. But in a way, yes, maybe.  

How can I tell this? When I was in Edinburgh, I spent some days in the Highlands and some days in  the Storytelling Centre. I bought all the tickets and listened to people! And in the Highlands, I  listened to a lot of stories. You know, you have lots of stories. Every stone has a story. A myth, a  fairy tale, and such stuff. And the geography, the view, the forests, and the mists – everything was so  impressive.  

I was already studying, working on fairy tales. And reading English, Irish, Scottish fairy tales. But after  I visited the Highlands I see that people are really attached to stories here. Everyone knows a  story, you know. That really impressed me.  

And I saw a girl. That day we were driving by a really gigantic forest in the Isle of Skye. And there  was this mist coming. It was really… You know, it was a bit horrifying, but it was impressive at the  same time. And there, I saw a girl – in my mind, of course – she was walking in the forest, you know,  singing songs and maybe seeing some fairies or fairies watching her and such stuff. So, then I visited the Storytelling Centre. I bought some books for kids, and there was a lot of exciting stuff about  Scottish mythical creatures there. Then I read them, and I loved some of them and started to dig.  And there I met the selkie.  

FJ Quite a pivotal character [in your novel]. 

AT Yeah. In most of the tales I read about selkie, a man from the land comes and takes her skin,  burns her skin, and forces her to a marriage, to give birth to his child. And she is losing her identity,  she is losing her country, her language and friends. Everything. So this is something universal. This is  not Scottish, you know? There are threats everywhere, all over the world for women. So I said, “Okay, my narrator will be a selkie, with a magical shop or hut, you can say, and she will travel all  around the world with a magical shop that only woman can see, and she will get revenge of what  men have done to us.”  

And I loved that idea. And then I write the project, and when they accepted it and gave me a  scholarship, I started writing it here. And then I was reading lots of fairy tales. All the customers  who visited the shop come from the other fairy tales I read.  

FJ Yeah, I loved that. And when I was reading it there were some that I recognized instantly. And  some that I didn’t, and now want to investigate and find out what those origin tales are.  

AT Just one of them was one I created – that was Beren, Baran, the boy who wants to be a girl, or  who wants to dress as a girl. That was something I put in, but the other ones are from fairy tales.  Bluebeard, Sheherazade, Medusa, from Greek mythology and such stuff.  

— 

FJ So when you were in the Women’s Library doing research, were you primarily reading stories?  Did you go into the archive at all? Did you use anything?  

AT Not the archive, but they gave me a lot of beautiful books. I don’t know if they’re from the  library or they bought it, I don’t know! But some of them I gave back, some of them were presents. Especially Adele [Patrick, GWL Co-Founder and Co-Director] was very kind about it. And I forgot the lady’s name, whose father at that time recently passed away. He was a kind of hunter of stories, what do you call it? He was moving around Scotland, hearing stories and writing them down. So I searched about them, his stories, and  that stuff, yeah. We talked a lot with people here.  

FJ I think that’s interesting that, obviously as a library, there are all these books and there’s an  archive. But one of the amazing resources, especially in this building, is the people.  

AT There were lots of beautiful graphic novels and stories, so I checked them all. And the  atmosphere of the library and Glasgow was really great. I’m not exaggerating! Yeah. I still miss that  time.  

FJ But you have it in your story.  

AT Yeah, really? 

 FJ Well, yeah… I think what you’re speaking about, that idea of being surrounded by supportive  women and being helped and held within a space, that’s entirely what your story is, ‘Just Some  Lover’ 

 AT Yeah, kind of. There is a legacy in this library, and I use some part of it, you know. The  psychology and the sharing the knowledge, supporting each other. Writing is a lonely job. You do it  at home by yourself. But it was the first time, in this library, I was surrounded by people. They were  not touching me, but their eyes were always on me if I need anything. So that was great.  

Every woman writer needs a space like this. It was like, of course, I have a room of my own. But  this Glasgow Women’s Library is really the second home for me. Then and now, still, a home for  me. So, it makes me emotional to talk about it.  

— 

FJ Knowing how useful that was in your process and how nice that felt, have you managed to then  find that this past year in your writing process?  

AT I was aware of it then, if you are asking that. I was really aware of it. It’s a great chance to have  time and money to spend just for writing now. My children was in Turkey. I was now no mum, no  daughter, no friend, no girlfriend. I was just the writer here. That was perfect.  

— 

FJ Your interest in fairy tales and rewriting fairy tales from a feminist perspective, do you know  where that came from?  

AT Nobody read me or told me stories when I was a child. But in the pandemic, the United  Nations women’s department had a workshop for women writers, and I was accepted. And there  we were hundreds of women writers from all around the world. We worked on how we know  that we are feminist in our life, without reading anything, and how we use it in our writings. And  then we started – everyone chose a fairy tale to retell in a feminist way. There I realised that we  don’t have much retellings in Turkish, in Turkey. So, and then I met [the work of] Angela Carter. And then I met [the work of] Susanna Clarke and such stuff, and I love reading in English. And I started reading a lot of retellings, and I said, “Yeah, that’s something.”  

Because I was always writing in a very realistic way. The men’s violence, the threats. I was always  showing a mirror to the reader. But when I started reading fairy tales and retellings, I decided, “Okay, I can reconstruct reality with fairy tales.” And in this book, “Okay,” I said, “I can get revenge. Even in a novel, I can give justice to women. Shoot their hearts.” I hope I managed it! 

FJ I think you’ve succeeded.  

AT But yeah, it was my wish when I was writing this novel. So I’m glad that I met fairy tales and  retellings, but I wish I had learned them, known them before, you know? It would make me a  different writer, but who cares?  

And now I’m on a different road. A very exciting road! With this book, this road started, so yeah,  I’ll go on like this.  

— 

FJ Is there a Turkish equivalency of a selkie?  

AT No. No. This is really Scottish. Turkish people don’t know… Maybe some people who read… What was the writer’s name? [Women Who Run with the Wolves] – you know that book? […] She [Clarissa Estés] has a selkie story, but it’s a different  version. Not similar to the versions I read in Scottish books. Yours is better! 

FJ So on that, you’ve been reading all of these fairy tales and you’ve incorporated many of them  into your work. Do you have a favourite woman or creature from folklore?  

AT Scottish?  

FJ Not necessarily. If your favourite lies elsewhere.  

AT Selkie is number one, of course.  

FJ Yep.  

AT Maybe then I can choose Scheherazade because it’s very tragic for a woman to have to tell  stories every night to survive, and help other women survive. That’s very tragic, and that’s  something that we don’t talk much about in Turkey. I don’t know how it’s here, but it’s very tragic. And it’s kind of still the same. We have to tell some stories, we have to fit in the man’s world or  otherwise there’s some interesting punishments. So Scheherazade will be my second choice, I guess.  

— 

FJ You write for children and adults, across a lot of different formats? Picture books, novels, novellas…  

AT I started writing with some nice adventures that are similar to the ones I read when I was a  child. Then I started with this workshop with the United Nations women’s division. There I retell a  story about fairy tale people who were protesting the storyteller. A prince was saying, “I don’t  want to fight. I want to write poems.” And a princess was saying, “I don’t want to be a princess. I  want to be a doctor,” and such stuff. So they imprison the storyteller and find a little child to tell  better stories about them.  

So there I change my road again, and I started writing about gender issues and such stuff. So I like it  that you read some adventure, of course. But I’ll go on… I mean, writing this stuff about men’s 

violence and such stuff is a bit depressive sometimes. You always think about the violence and how  women are treated badly. But when you write about children, you want to give them hope,  perspective… so it’s more fun. It’s balancing each other. 

FJ So do you think that you will continue with both of those? 

AT Yeah, I hope so. I hope, but I hope… if I become older in mind, I stop writing work for children. […]  But I’m still… I have some childish characteristics, so I will keep on writing for a while! 

— 

FJ You’re a big advocate for young people and young people’s rights as well. Can you tell me a bit  about that?  

AT I hope so. Yeah, I worked for five years for an institute called Istanbul Literature House. And  for five years, I worked with young people who don’t have money to buy books or to read […] who cannot access cultural stuff maybe I can say. So we made workshops every weekend for them. We made thematic readings and thematic writings, like women’s rights, Armenian’s rights, Kurdish  rights, or other stuff, for five years. When they come, they were little people, like 14 years old. And  now I see them all the time. Some of them are married, some of them work, some go to some cities in Europe. Some keep going on writing and reading, of course. So it was a beautiful time. […]

AT But now some of Literature House is closed because of no funding. So that’s a pity, but it was  the best five years of my time in Turkey.  

FJ And you’re still doing work with young people as well, right?  

AT Yeah, I do some workshops with them, but not [as] often as before. We don’t have much institutions for young people. It’s a pity.  

FJ Yeah. The funding goes in the wrong direction in all the countries.  

— 

FJ You said that Just Some Lover was written with a specific soundtrack.  AT Yeah. Thanks to my daughter.  

FJ Do you often do that with writing? Do you have a soundtrack?  

AT Yeah. I usually start with a David Bowie song. It can be ‘Heroes’ or something else. I listen to it like tens or hundreds, but then I choose my song for the novel. And I repeatedly listen to it until I  don’t hear it. But, Last Dinner Party is a good band my daughter loves, especially Abigail, and I love her, too. And we were one day listening… Before I come here, we were listening to a video clip of  them – ‘This Beautiful Boy’. We were talking about what the song tells, the story of the song, and then, I said, “Oh, the girl with the ribbon,” and such stuff, and then that makes sense to me and I choose that song to listen, and it was good company. Last Dinner Party was good company. Still is, of course! 

FJ And so all of your writing has a soundtrack that you have during the creation of it.  AT Yeah, but always I start with David Bowie. David Bowie is my god. 

FJ Yeah?  

AT Yeah.  

FJ He’s your in-point, and then… 

AT He’s the only man.  

FJ That’s fair, yeah. One can be allowed in. That’s fine.  

AT Yeah. Thank you.  

— 

FJ I don’t want to take up too much of your time because tonight you have your event with Kirsty  Logan. I have one last question. In the acknowledgments of Just Some Lover you say: “A woman is a homeland for another woman, everywhere.” 

Which is a beautiful quote. It really stuck in my mind, and I was thinking about it, and I was thinking  it feels true for me of women in real life, but also women that you sort of encounter through  literature as well. That they can be a homeland when you need it. And I was just wondering if you  could speak to a woman or a couple of women, maybe real or in stories, who have been a  homeland for you.  

AT Adele [Patrick, GWL Co-Director] and Wendy [Kirk, GWL Librarian], I can count here. And Aslı [Konaç] is a good friend. She accompanied me with all the steps of this book especially. She read all the books I read when I was working on this story, all the fairytales, all the novels, all the  retellings. She found a lot of stuff for me to watch, to listen.  

And not only Aslı, I’m always surrounded by women. 80% of my readers are women. I have some  haters, of course, because I’m a feminist.  

But when two or three women come together, despite their age, what jobs and countries may be  different – when we start to talk, we have similar problems. So we become sisters immediately. So  that’s something important for me.  

Whether you write or not, whether you read or not, whether you’re intellectual or not – if you’re  a woman, you find sisters everywhere. I believe that, too. So I feel very lucky to find a lot of people  around me. 

—- 

Reader, you should know that after the recorder was switched off there was about another 25  minutes of chat around a multitude of topics including male critics taking offence to feminist writings, and censorship, and the multitudes of excellent Turkish writing that just cannot get a translation deal (and that we English-language readers are therefore missing out on), and where to get great food in Glasgow.  

So if you do ever get a chance to chat with Aslı Tohumcu, I strongly advise you to bring up one of  these subjects – she has so many interesting things to say, and I was so privileged to get this time to  talk with her.

In this podcast volunteers Amy, Niamh and Joy chat with Co-founder and Co-director Adele Patrick, BME Women’s Project Development Worker Syma Ahmed, and Librarian Wendy Kirk, about our approaches to challenging violence against women throughout GWL’s history. From creating a safe space to raising awareness, and ensuring that women’s experiences and the work of organisations past and present are recorded and preserved.

This podcast is one in a series of podcasts created and developed by volunteers as part of our Three Decades of Changing Minds project. Each show covers one of six key themes in our work and history – access, green, LGBTQ+, anti-racism, violence against women, and changemaking. Please see here to listen to all of our podcasts.

You can see the transcript and show notes here. Thank you to our wonderful volunteer Eli for working on these.

In this podcast volunteers Niamh and Joy chat with Co-founder and Co-director Adele Patrick, BME Women’s Project Development Worker Syma Ahmed, and Outreach and Engagement Development worker Lil Green, about the ways anti-racist work has been a core element of GWL’s history over the last 30+ years.

This podcast is one in a series of podcasts created and developed by volunteers as part of our Three Decades of Changing Minds project. Each show covers one of six key themes in our work and history – access, green, LGBTQ+, anti-racism, violence against women, and changemaking. Please see here to listen to all of our podcasts.

You can see the transcript and show notes here. Thank you to our wonderful volunteer Eli for working on these.

What should have been a quick blog post, rapidly grew to four posts when Becky started writing about feminism and knitting. This is the audio version of those posts, narrated by her, to hopefully make a long piece of writing a little more accessible.

Brody, Jane E. ‘Homosexuality: Parents Aren’t Always to Blame’. The New York Times, 10 Feb. 1971. NYTimes.com, https://www.nytimes.com/1971/02/10/archives/homosexuality-parents-arent-always-to-blame.html.

Bryce, Craig. Lady Burgesses and Guild Sisters. Trades House of Glasgow, Jan. 2019, https://www.tradeshouselibrary.org/uploads/4/7/7/2/47723681/female_members_of_the_trades.pdf.

Carlson, Hannah. Pockets: An Intimate History of How We Keep Things Close. First edition, Algonquin Books of Chapel Hill, 2023.

Casselman, Karen Diadick. ‘Women in Colour: Perceptions of Professionalism in Natural Dyeing during the Arts And Crafts Period’. Textile History, vol. 39, no. 1, May 2008, pp. 16–44.

Finlayson, Iain. Denim: An American Legend. Simon & Schuster, 1990.

Hillman, Betty Luther. ‘“The Clothes I Wear Help Me to Know My Own Power”: The Politics of Gender Presentation in the Era of Women’s Liberation’. Frontiers: A Journal of Women Studies, vol. 34, no. 2, 2013, pp. 155–85.

Jakob, D. ‘Crafting Your Way out of the Recession? New Craft Entrepreneurs and the Global Economic Downturn’. Cambridge Journal of Regions, Economy and Society, vol. 6, no. 1, Mar. 2013, pp. 127–40.

Luknitics. ‘Knit Yourself a WOMAN’S WOOLLY’. Spare Rib, no. 114, 1982, pp. 28–29.

Marsh, M. Lilly. ‘3. Become the Boss of Your Knitting: Elizabeth Zimmerman and the Emergence of Critical Knitting’. Stitching the Self: Identity and the Needle Arts, edited by Johanna Amos and Lisa Binkley, Bloomsbury Visual Arts, 2021, pp. 49–65.

Mayne, Alison. ‘Stitchy Fingers: Making by Hand in the First Decade of “Spare Rib”’. MAI: Feminism & Visual Culture, no. 8, Dec. 2021, https://maifeminism.com/stitchy-fingers-making-by-hand-in-the-first-decade-of-spare-rib/.

Medhurst, Eleanor. ‘Lesbian Feminist Dress Codes’. Dressing Dykes, 30 July 2021, https://dressingdykes.com/2021/07/30/lesbian-feminist-dress-codes/.

—. ‘Subverting Pink’. Dressing Dykes, https://dressingdykes.com/2020/08/21/subverting-pink/.

Posener, Jill. Spray It Loud. Routledge and Kegan Paul, 1982.

Satenstein, Liana. ‘Take It From This Saint Laurent Model: Nobody Is Too Cool for a Sweater-Vest’. Vogue, 14 Jan. 2016, https://www.vogue.com/article/sweater-vests-cool-again-saint-laurent-model-approved.

Stannard, Casey R., and Kathy Mullet. ‘Consumption of Raw Materials by Crafters: Desired Characteristics of Yarn and Retailers’. Clothing and Textiles Research Journal, vol. 36, no. 1, Jan. 2018, pp. 17–32.

Steele, Valerie. ‘Anti-Fashion: The 1970s’. Fashion Theory, vol. 1, no. 3, Aug. 1997, pp. 279–95.

Trufelman, Avrey. Articles on Interest. S4 E13 More Pockets, https://articlesofinterest.substack.com/p/more-pockets.

Wilson, Elizabeth. ‘Feminism and Fashion’. Adorned in Dreams: Fashion and Modernity, University of California Press, 1987, pp. 228–47.

In this podcast volunteers Niamh and Joy chat with Archivist Mae Moss, Volunteering Programme Assistant Ren Clark, and Director Sue John (also an early instigator of GWL in the 1990s) about lesbian activism, the evolution of language in relation to the LGBTQ+ community, the Lesbian Archive and other aspects of GWL’s work which have been significant in fore fronting the lives, histories and culture of LGBTQ+ people in Scotland.

Download the transcript for this podcast and our show notes here.

Starting in November 2022 volunteers supported by staff developed, produced, recorded and edited a series of podcasts exploring the work of GWL over three decades on six key themes: Access, Anti-Racism, LGBTQ+, Violence against Women, Environment and Sustainability, and Change Making.

In this episode we find out more about how ecofeminism and care for the environment have impacted our work in the past three decades, hearing from Museum Curator Jenny Noble and Development Worker for Programming, Curating, Partnerships and Participation, Caroline Gausden.

Download the show notes and transcript for this podcast here.

Starting in November 2022 volunteers supported by staff developed, produced, recorded and edited a series of podcasts exploring the work of GWL over three decades on six key themes: Access, Anti-Racism, LGBTQ+, Violence against Women, Environment and Sustainability, and Change Making.

In this episode, we look at what “access” and “accessibility” means at GWL and how this has influenced our work in the past three decades.

We hear from former Facilities Management Officer Becca Lewis, Adult Literacy and Numeracy Tutor Deborah Walker, and Volunteer Co-ordinator Gabrielle Macbeth.

Download the show notes and transcript for this podcast here.

The poetry slam at FLUP feels like the heart of the festival. In this final episode of Glasgow Women’s Library and FLUP the podcast, Tomiwa Folorunso finds sits down with one of the founders of FLUP, Julio Ludemir, and some of the poetry slammers to find out more about this special event. From Rio de Janeiro they discuss community, Blackness and the importance of the slam poetry movement.

A transcript of the podcast can be downloaded here:

Download: GWL + FLUP: The Poetry Slam Podcast Transcript

(in order of appearance)

Julio Ludemir

Tomiwa Folorunso: https://www.tomiwafolorunso.com/

Tomiwa’s Blog Post about FLUP: https://womenslibrary.org.uk/2019/11/25/gwl-x-flup/

FLUP: http://www.flup.net.br/flup2019/

This podcast was produced with kind support of the British Council.

In this second episode of Glasgow Women’s Library and FLUP the podcast, Tomiwa Folorunso sits down with Funmilola Fagbamila, the Nigerian-American activist, playwright, author and scholar, one of the original organisers of the Black Lives Matter Movement. From Rio de Janeiro they discuss activism off and online, and protecting and looking after yourself.

A transcript of the podcast can be downloaded here:

Download: GWL + FLUP Funmilola Fagbamila Podcast Transcript

Funmilola Fagbamila: https://www.funmilola.com/

Tomiwa Folorunso: https://www.tomiwafolorunso.com/

Tomiwa’s Blog Post about FLUP: https://womenslibrary.org.uk/2019/11/25/gwl-x-flup/

FLUP: http://www.flup.net.br/flup2019/

This podcast was produced with kind support of the British Council.

This podcast, looking at nature writing, is part of Open the Door 2020. The panelists are Christina Riley, Maria Sledmere and Rebecca Jones and the episode was produced by Jennifer Wood.

Scroll down to the bottom of this post to listen.

You can download a transcript of the panel discussion here: Download Nature Writing Panel Transcript

A largeprint transcript is also available: Download Largeprint Nature Writing Panel Transcript.

Christina Riley http://christinariley.co.uk/the-nature-library https://twitter.com/thenaturelib

Maria Sledmere https://t.co/y6McXxXHUU?amp=1, https://twitter.com/mariaxrose

Rebecca Jones https://bookishandbeastly.wordpress.com/, https://twitter.com/beckmjones

The Nature Library: thenaturelibrary.com/page-a-day

GWL Women in the Landscape Project https://womenslibrary.org.uk/discover-our-projects/women-in-the-landscape/

A+E Collective https://aecollective.earth/

Spam Press https://spamzine.co.uk/about

Dostoyevsky Wannabe https://dostoyevskywannabe.com/

Henry David Thoreau

Robert Macfarlane

Jussi Parikka Insect Media https://www.upress.umn.edu/book-division/books/insect-media

Daisy Lafarge “Understudies for Air”

Amy Liptrot https://twitter.com/amy_may The Outrun https://canongate.co.uk/books/2264-the-outrun/

Dave Borthwick https://twitter.com/BorthwickDave

Donna Haraway “Situated Knowledges” https://www.jstor.org/stable/3178066?seq=1

Sara Ahmed https://www.saranahmed.com/

Vandana Shiva Staying Alive https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/537607/staying-alive-by-vandana-shiva/

Kathleen Jamie The Tree House https://www.panmacmillan.com/authors/kathleen-jamie/the-tree-house/9780330474436

Vertebrate Publishing, Waymaking https://www.v-publishing.co.uk/books/narratives/waymaking_1/

Nina Mingya Powles “Small Bodies of Water” https://www.thewillowherbreview.com/bodies-of-water-nina-mingya-powles

Sandeep Parmar, Bhanu Kapil and Nisha Ramayya’s book Threads https://www.poetrybooks.co.uk/products/threads-sandeep-parmar-bhanu-kapil-and-nisha-ramayya

Rachael Allen Kingdomland https://www.faber.co.uk/books/poetry/9780571341115-kingdomland.html

Caspar Heinemann Novelty Theory https://www.the87press.com/product-page/novelty-theory-caspar-heinemann