Graceful Atheist Podcast

This week's guest is Jose Ramos, Hannah's husband from her episode two weeks ago. Jose's family converted to Independent Fundamentalist Baptist and his father became a pastor. They were taught that the IFB had the "pure word of God," and it was their purpose to evangelize and change the world. Throughout his teens, Jose's only rebellion was, "like a month partying with [his] brothers." Later, he went to Bible College, and then started preaching. He met Hannah and took over his father's Spanish speaking church. Studying the Bible for ministry, however, brought more questions and doubts. Over the next year, he continued preaching but knew he didn't believe. He left the ministry and later told Hannah why. After another hard and depressive year, he knew he was agnostic. Jose gave Hannah the space to go on her own journey. They still attended church as a family, but he did not try to change her. Today, their stories can give comfort to other couples facing religious doubts and uncertainties. Jose's honesty and vulnerability show the grace and goodness in his own human heart. No more looking forward to heaven or fearing hell, simply being present in each movement and looking for the beauty that's found there. Recommendations Books #PaidLinks Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari
https://amzn.to/3xuaddv (Also available in graphic novel form)
https://amzn.to/319PbEF
https://amzn.to/3E93tV2 Homo Deus by Yuval Noah Harari
https://amzn.to/3CXUNiF Podcasts Sam Harris' Making Sense
https://www.samharris.org/ Links Hannah's episode
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/11/14/hannah-ramos-unequally-yoked-to-deconverted/ Clergy Project
https://clergyproject.org/ Interact Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

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"Good afternoon. Good evening. And good night." This week's episode is a compelling discussion between David and past podcast guests Jimmy and Colin. They take a deep dive into how The Truman Show mirrors the long, painful journey of deconstruction—realizing the story you've been told isn't quite what it seems, pushing back little by little, and then sometimes leaving completely, walking out the door and into the darkness. "You never had a camera in my head." They consider it all:

• The trauma and fears induced
• Infantilization
• The constant gaslighting
• The creation and controlling of relationships
• And the lies, a completely fabricated life.

All done to "love him, protect him." They each bring their own stories to the table, stories of courage and uncertainty and a desire for truth, stories that resonate with many people. Like Truman, we can lean in when what we've believed no longer lines up with what we're experiencing. We can be curious, ask questions and see where that journey takes us. Links Where to stream The Truman Show
https://www.justwatch.com/us/movie/the-truman-show Final scene
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn5kuDdeGzs Interact Full show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/11/21/movie-review-the-truman-show/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

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My guest this week is Hannah Ramos. Hannah grew up in an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist family, one of ten homeschooled children. Dissuaded from going to bible college, she waited for her Prince Charming. When Jose showed up to speak at her church, she knew he was "God's choice" for her as a husband. Very early in their marriage, Jose took over as pastor of a Spanish speaking church. Everything seemed to be going according to God's plan, until three years later when Jose admitted to Hannah that he no longer believed. Suddenly, she found herself in an unequally yoked relationship. For six years, Hannah focused on her own faith and raising their three children as believers, and they loved one other through this time. Jose supported Hannah's faith, and Hannah had given up on changing Jose's mind. Hannah had the space to begin to question her own faith. Her children innocently asked her to explain the Trinity, and they were not satisfied with her answers. She read through the Bible, asking, "But is this true?" She no longer could assume that it was. Finally the pat answers Hannah received no longer satisfied her, and she admitted to herself that she also no longer believed. To Jose's amazement (and slight disbelief), Hannah revealed that she was no longer a Christian. Today, they are closer than ever, and their children are free to decide for themselves what they believe. Hannah has found a peace she did not think was possible. Interact Full show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/11/14/hannah-ramos-unequally-yoked-to-deconverted/ Lars and Christie episode
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/09/26/lars-and-christie-deconverted-family/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

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My guest this week is Phil Quagliariello who blogs at Phil Q Musings. Phil grew up as a PK in Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Churches which, of course, were the one true Church. He moved around often as a kids and saw the dark side of ministry when his father was removed from a church by the board for being too "new fangled." He went through the entirety of his education including college in Christian schools. Phil eventually found himself in Calvary Chapel churches were they were more exegetical, focused on the Bible. He got married and they both were worship leaders. Eventually, the concept of the "Emergent Church" came to their church and Phil lead the worship for that service. Unfortunately, that marriage did not last. Phil found himself seeking a church experience that was more authentic and "that did not suck." He found a faith community that met in the basement of a bar that at first he found satisfying. Phil remarried to a women with two children. These children and the children they have together became the light of his life. Phil began to recognize the trauma of his upbringing: the fear of punishment and the fear of Hell. And he focused on being parent who does not use fear as a weapon. Phil began to seriously doubt Evangelicalism during the 2016 election. But he still hung on to the church experience until the Jan 6th election when he could no longer call himself an Evangelical, a Christian or a believer. Phil has a particularly good answer to how he finds meaning in his life. Links Phil Q Musings Blog
https://philqmusings.wordpress.com/ Interact Ginna's Episode
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/10/10/ginna-deconversion-anonymous/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

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My guest this week is Jack Robertson, host of the Musings of an ADD mind podcast. He grew up with a super Evangelical Southern Baptist mother and always went to church. As a teenager he became super religious himself until a confidant let the whole youth group know he was having sex with his girlfriend. Then he stopped going to church for a while. Then late in his 30s Jack got heavily involved in an Oklahoma City based megachurch. He read through the bible three times. But, jack always had questions. "In the Exodus story god is the bad guy, not Pharaoh. If man was created in god's image then wicked pre-flood people that were so evil he needed to destroy the world would be a reflection of him." Jack asks himself if he really believed or if it was his ADD hyper focus on Christianity that kept him in for so long. After a friend asked for prayer for a job interview it hit him, "how would god decide? Go with whoever had the most friends pray? The person who's friends prayed the most? Use a prayer version of comment winner generator?" After a deep dive into Mesopotamian history he realized it was all just stories. The 2016 election and then his son coming out as bi-sexual finalized his decision. He no longer believes Links Musings of an ADD Mind
https://open.spotify.com/show/0ebZTxuf9YUOrT58H4TvRK?si=DpVTS3YwSU-BuyGTEyy5lw&utm_source=copy-link Website
https://www.podpage.com/musings-of-an-add-mind/ Facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/musngsofanaddmind/ Interact Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversionJon Steingard
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/01/03/jon-steingard-the-wonder-and-the-mystery-of-being/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

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My guest this week is Mark Landes, a former Army officer who is working toward becoming a humanist chaplain. Mark grew up in the United Methodist tradition. He went to West Point and became an officer in the Army. He wanted to become an Army chaplain. Mark's army career is a fascinating tale in itself. He was stationed in West Berlin shortly before the fall of the Berlin Wall. Then during the Gulf War he volunteered to go to Kuwait and experienced the first air raid of the Gulf War. Mark was also a gay man in the military before the time of "don't ask don't tell" when there were witch hunts to remove gay military members. He was investigated and removed with an "other than honorable" discharge. Understandably, Mark went through time of deep depression. To make maters worse when he returned to the states he joined a 12 step group that was in effect a group conversion therapy. It is during this dark time of his life that Mark began to question the reality of god. Through a years long process Mark deconverted eventually admitting to himself he no longer believed. Mark has since become a humanist celebrant and has made an attempt to get a Masters in Divinity to become a humanist chaplain. In this process he began his "theological anthropology" which has led him to tell his story. He now wants to get a Masters in Pastoral care and is hoping to create an "institutional chaplaincy" in the business world. This humanist journey began with him asking the question, "how can I make the world a better place?" Links Mark's Blog
https://humanistchaplainjourney.blogspot.com/Captain Cassidy
https://gracefulatheist.com/2019/10/17/captain-cassidy-roll-to-disbelieve/Sasha Sagan
https://gracefulatheist.com/2020/02/06/sasha-sagan-for-small-creatures-such-as-we/ Interact Full show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/10/24/mark-landes-military-deconversion-and-humanism/ Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/ Thanks to Logan Thomas for the new Graceful Atheist Podcast art work

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This week's show is a Deconversion Anonymous episode. My guest this week is Emily. Emily grew up in an Evangelical Free Church in the rural Midwest. She was on the Cubbies-Sparks-AWANA track. Around age 10, she became a pastor's kid when her dad switched careers and went into ministry. Her early childhood experiences of church were fairly positive, but she struggled with severe fear of hell and the rapture from a young age. The youth group setting was horribly unsuited to a sensitive introvert like. She was miserable being forced to attend churches where she didn't know anyone except her parents.This discomfort in Christian circles continued through college. After college, Emily spent a year in London doing a master's degree. She immersed myself in the city's amazing performing arts scene and met a lot of people with totally different backgrounds and beliefs to hers. That year really expanded her horizons, and when she moved back to the US, she pursued a career in performing arts administration. For the first few years after grad school, Emily wasn't ready to reject everything and say that she didn't believe in God, but she had no interest in going to church, praying, reading the Bible, etc. Then the 2016 election happened, and she watched with horror as Christians whom she loved and admired went all-in for Trump. At that point, her indifference turned to disgust, and she wanted nothing to do with Christianity at all. In the past 2-3 years Emily has really done the hard work of figuring out what she believes now and addressing the harm that her Christian background has caused. Emily has had to work through the baggage of purity culture as she is in her first long term relationship. Therapy with a focus on religious trauma has been helpful. Emily is discovering who she is, relish the arts and experiencing the joy of being a human being. Interact We are very excited to announce the new private Deconversion Anonymous Facebook Group. The group will be administered by Arline from episode 71. Please join us in building a community of graceful human beings. Deconversion Anonymous Facebook Group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversion Full show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/10/17/emily-deconversion-anonymous/ Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/ Thanks to Logan Thomas for the new Graceful Atheist Podcast art work

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This week's show is a Deconversion Anonymous episode. My guest this week is Ginna. Ginna is a software developer in her 30's. She went through deconversion in her 20's after suffering depression during her college years. Even though there were Christians around her who were on medication for their depressions no one was public about it. The implied stigma kept her from reaching out for help and kept her from finding the right treatment when she did. After college she went to a " shelter for honest questions" called L`Abri to find answers to her questions. Her questions were pointed and personal. The questions of theodicy, divine hiddenness and theological evil. She "had a really good time, but [she] didn't get answers to the questions that [she] had." After a brief stint in a liturgical church, which she loved, she stopped going to church and gained some perspective. She realized she could no longer believe in a god where there was no practical difference between non-existence and said god being evil. Ginna eventually received the help she needed for her mental health. She had to try multiple different doctors and therapies until she found the right combination. Today she is excited about exploring secular community and growing as a human being. Interact We are very excited to announce the new private Deconversion Anonymous Facebook Group. The group will be administered by Arline from episode 71. Please join us in building a community of graceful human beings. Deconversion Anonymous Facebook Group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deconversion Full show notes with quotes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/10/10/ginna-deconversion-anonymous/?gaid=gap92Magic Feathers and Sugar Pills
https://gracefulatheist.com/2018/03/21/magic-feathers-and-suger-pills/?gaid=gap92Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/?gaid=gap92Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/?gaid=gap92 Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

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My guest this week is Monique. Monique grew up a cultural Christian until the family of her boyfriend "made it known they were Southern Baptists." She married that boyfriend and had kids. He became abusive. First psychologically, then spiritually and eventually physically. He gas lit her, told her she was not worthy and that she was not following god, and called her purity culture epithets we won't recount here. After years of isolation and spiritual abuse, Monique left after executing a cloak and dagger level plan to serve divorce papers and a restraining order simultaneously. Eventually, her kids were taken from her as he had lawyers and she did not. She was estranged from them for years. Monique went through a deconstruction and deconversion that began to give her some peace. Her youngest son reached out to her to tell her he is gay. She opened up her arms and showed grace, love and respect. She and her daughter attempted to reunite but this was ruined when the daughter took offence to a passing joke about prayer. Today, Monique is free and loving learning true things. Her and her new husband (who happens to be a believer) have respect and love for each other. Monique is telling her story to give hope to others so they may know they are not alone. Interact Full show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/10/03/monique-deconversion-anonymous/?gaid=gap91 Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/?gaid=gap91Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/?gaid=gap91 Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

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My guests this week are Lars, Christie, Teddy, Amy and Eleanor, a whole family who deconverted around the same time. Lars felt a sense of duty to be a Christian all his life because he believed it was true. Christie felt there was "good evidence" for parts of the Bible and accepted that the rest was true. This worked until both of them came to the conclusion there was not enough evidence to believe. During the pandemic with Church on screen rather than in person, both Lars and Christie began to feel the freedom from Church. They eventually admitted to each other that they no longer believed. A few months later they asked the kids, "do you notice anything we are not doing any longer?" To which they responded, "church." None of them seemed to miss it too much other than friends and the snacks! Lars and Christie also share about Lars' demi-sexuality and the difficult early conversations around sex when they were first getting married. This highlights the destructive aspects of purity culture on everyone. Today the whole family is feeling free, intellectually honest and relieved after admitting to themselves they no longer believe and stopped going to church. Links Answers To Answers In Genesis FB group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/answers2aig/ William Lane Craig admitting it is the witness of the holy spirit not evidence

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VWEFY4JuGk
• http://www.reasonablefaith.org/videos/other-videos/what-is-the-inner-witness-of-the-holy-spirit
• https://youtu.be/wRm3PFFg97I?t=128
• https://youtu.be/cYq-xNpokEs?t=37

Interact Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/?gaid=gap90Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/?gaid=gap90 Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

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