My guest this week is Michael, AKA Reverend Bones. Michael is an Australian singer/songwriter whose latest album Escape From Heaven is about his faith transition out of Evangelicalism. Michael talks openly and honestly about how purity culture affected him and the religious trauma it produced. Michael is now a climate activist and anti-purity culture activist. Michael uses his TicTok presence to speak out on these topics as well as the need for separation of church and state. Links Website
https://www.reverendbones.com/ TikTok
https://www.tiktok.com/@reverend_bones Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/reverend_bones Spotify
https://open.spotify.com/artist/6ITRWlI5YToDcwA1o7SdRi Interact Full show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/05/30/michael-escape-from-heaven/?gaid=gap75 If you are interested in producing music for the Graceful Atheist Podcast, the sound I am looking for has a strong baseline and beat with gospel church organ, potentially with R&B or Gospel vocal samples. Here is a playlist to inspire you to Gospel R&B Beats. Get in touch. https://open.spotify.com/playlist/27qcj0QlDP23O7SzQKaAUL Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/?gaid=gap75Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/?gaid=gap75 Attribution Music by Reverend Bones from Escape From Heaven "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats https://makaihbeats.net/

This week I am being interviewed by Sam and Daniel from the When Belief Dies podcast. The focus is on what I have changed my mind about since beginning work in the secular community. We discuss the following topics:

• The deconversion process
  https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/?gaid=gap74
  https://gracefulatheist.com/2020/11/23/i-was-mistaken/?gaid=gap74
  
• Secular Grace
  How the 12 steps influenced my conception of Secular Grace
  https://gracefulatheist.com/secular-grace/?gaid=gap74
  
• Honesty contests
  Talking with believers
  The analogy of the Cathedral
  
• Secular Grief
  Letting go of an afterlife for oneself and one’s loved ones
  The human desire for an afterlife represented in secular movies
  

This episode is a sister episode to Daniel and me interviewing Sam on When Belief Dies. Both episodes are dropping at the same time. You can see me in the YouTube version interviewing Sam.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mtOgkvIqJU Music If you are interested in producing music for the Graceful Atheist Podcast, the sound I am looking for has a strong baseline and beat with gospel church organ, potentially with R&B or Gospel vocal samples. Here is a playlist to inspire you to Gospel R&B Beats. Get in touch.
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/27qcj0QlDP23O7SzQKaAUL?si=d4fad72b30c64c94 Links When Belief Dies
https://whenbeliefdies.com/
https://linktr.ee/whenbeliefdies Full show notes with much more
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/05/23/sam-and-daniel-interview-david-ames-the-graceful-atheist/?gaid=gap74 Attribution Photo graphic design by Logan Thomas, Beyond Belief "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

I begin every streaming interview with a question, “Hi, can you hear me?” Never has an affirmative answer to such a mundane question been so profound as it was with this week’s guest, Caroline Schwabe. Caroline had progressive hearing loss and eventually could no longer speak on the phone even with hearing aids. Almost by accident, she was referred to a Cochlear implant program in Canada during a routine hearing test. January 28, 2018, was her last deaf day. She has been on a three-year journey of rediscovery after receiving a Cochlear implant. Along with her husband, Andreas, Caroline co-hosts a podcast called My Beautify Cyborg about her Cochlear implant journey. It describes the hopes and fears leading up to surgery and the joy and rediscovery after turning on the implant. Caroline’s gratitude and joy is infectious and comes through in each episode. Caroline and Andreas had experienced major disappointments and hurts from the Church. At the same time, she was going through the implant process, both she and her husband were slowly leaving the Church. If not a full-blown deconstruction, they have been asking very hard questions and wrestling with the answers. This episode is unique in that there are two parallel stories: one of regaining hearing and one of questioning one’s faith. Podcasts have played an outsized role in Caroline’s rediscovery of hearing and language recognition, including this one. Links My Beautiful Cyborg
https://mybeautifulcyborg.com/ Links for Cochlear implant information
https://mybeautifulcyborg.com/links/ Interact Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/?gaid=gap73Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/?gaid=gap73 Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

This week's show is a Deconversion Anonymous episode. My guest this week is Brette. Brette was so serious about her Christianity in junior high her goal was martyrdom. In her young adulthood, she followed her pastor's advice and attended Master's Commission, similar to a discipleship training program. Her experience there was nothing short of psychological torture. Her faith began breaking down as did her physical and psychological health at Master's Commission. It included deliverance sessions and enumerating her demons. It wasn't until she saw her younger brother being treated poorly that she began to question. She and her brother left: "leaving was the BEST feeling!" After a brief stint in "spiritual but not religious" land, she finally admitted she no longer believed in god. She let go of "trying to make it be true." Brette has since discovered naturalistic and psychological explanations of her experiences that have given her more closure and comfort. Interact Sam (When Belief Dies) GoFundMe for a laptop
https://gofund.me/9bed67a7 Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/?gaid=gap72Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/?gaid=gap72Deconversion Anonymous
https://gracefulatheist.com/category/podcast/deconversion-anonymous/?gaid=gap72 Attribution Picture by Brette's daughter A. "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

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This week's show is a Deconversion Anonymous episode. My guest this week is Arline. Arline became a Christian in early adulthood. She went to a Christian college where she met her now-husband. Her faith tradition was a severe version of Calvinism. She taught complementarianism. The roles allowed for women and complementarianism were not a good fit for Arline's inquisitive personality. Her husband went through an emotional deconversion first. Arline did not take this as well as she would now like. Alongside this was the long slow deterioration of her mother's health. She slowly began to deconstruct. First by exploring other versions of Christianity. Eventually exploring other faith traditions including meditation from a Buddhist perspective. In short. she was letting her curiosity and intelligence explore all the areas of interest that were previously prohibited. In the end, for her own personal intellectual integrity, she admitted to herself she no longer believed. She has since discovered natural human habits that have helped her far more than her faith ever had. Interact Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/?gaid=gap71Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/?gaid=gap71 Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

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Janice Selbie on the Conference on Religious Trauma (CORT) The Conference on Religious Trauma
(#CORT) online
May 11 to 16, 2021
Links Conference on Religious Trauma
https://pheedloop.com/CORT/site/home/ Twitter
https://twitter.com/cometocort Face Book
https://www.facebook.com/ConferenceOnReligiousTrauma Godless Moms Podcast
https://www.godlessmom.com/podcast Friends of the podcast presenting at CORT

• Janice Selbie
  https://gracefulatheist.com/2019/11/27/janice-selbie-divorcing-religion/?gaid=cort2021
  
• Alice Greczyn
  https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/01/31/alice-greczyn-wayward/?gaid=cort2021
  
• Dave Warnock
  https://gracefulatheist.com/2019/08/08/dave-warnock-dying-out-loud/?gaid=cort2021
  
• Clint Heacock
  https://gracefulatheist.com/2020/04/30/dr-clint-heacock-reconstruction-after-deconstruction/?gaid=cort2021
  

Interact Full show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/04/29/?gaid=cort2021 Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/?gaid=cort2021Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/?gaid=cort2021 Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

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My guest this week is Michael Marvosh. Michael is the podcast host of Dead Man's Forest and is working on his book Reality Knows the Truth: The Art and Artifice of Being Human. Michael and I discuss what it means to be human and the human experience of spirituality. Michael tells us his deconversion story that he no longer sees as deconversion. He describes his rediscovery of a rational spirituality. Michael and I hit a broad range of conversation topics including having conversations that matter, models vs reality, A.I., Death Cafes, vision quests, blind spots and podcasting. It was truly a conversation that mattered. Links Contact Michael
[email protected] Website
https://www.michaelmarvosh.com/projectsDead Man's Forest
https://www.deadmansforest.org/ Reality Knows the Truth: The Art and Artifice of Being Human
About Rational Spirituality–a way of looking at the world with a balance between ancient wisdom and modern reason.
https://michael.ck.page/d36a3d2338 Death Cafe
https://deathcafe.com/ Interact Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/?gaid=gap70Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/?gaid=gap70 Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

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This week's show is a Deconversion Anonymous episode. My guest this week is Sarah. Sarah says she may have one of the "longest deconstruction stories. She grew up in a fundamentalist Baptist church in an area where there were not that many Baptist churches. So she felt different from an early age. She was constantly attempting to live in the "will of God" but struggled to determine what that was. She knew from an early age that she was a doubter which equates to "backslider." Sarah was never comfortable with the limited roles allowed for women in the Church. Fortunately, her mother encouraged her to do and become whatever she wanted. Sarah was smart and interested in science. Studying science and biology did not fit the Young Earth Creationism she was taught at church. Sarah and her husband were the one couple who were egalitarian while the young married couples group were all complementarian. Sarah was vocal about her thoughts on complemntarianism. Sarah spent a long time outside the United States. When she returned to the United States she was shocked by the Christian Nationalism she heard from the pulpit. Rachael Held Evens, Mike McHargue and David Hayward helped Sarah through her deconstruction. Today post-deconstruction she is interested in finding her "deconstructing friends" in real life. Interact Full show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/04/18/sarah-deconstruction-anonymous/?gaid=gap69 Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/?gaid=gap69Deconversion Anonymous
https://gracefulatheist.com/category/podcast/deconversion-anonymous/?gaid=gap69Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/?gaid=gap69 Promotions Conference on Religious Trauma
https://pheedloop.com/CORT/site/home/ #ReligionShouldntHurt
https://www.instagram.com/religion.shouldnt.hurt/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

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This week's show is a Deconversion Anonymous episode. My guest this week is Carly. Carly shares her story with a great deal of vulnerability and emotion. Carly was a Christian Scientist. While studying philosophy and the Bible Carly was introduced to Christian Science. She was impressed with its logical arguments and internal consistency. Carly was more evangelistic than the church she attended. She wanted to use the Christian Science reading room during SXSW as an outreach. She was shot down. When she pointed out that prohibited alcohol would be consumed by renting the space out she was shot down again. The juxtaposition of what Christian Science promised and the reality of life led her to doubt. Carly eventually found what she was looking for in more secular matters like work, exercise and therapy. Interact Full show notes
https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/04/11/carly-christian-science-deconversion/?gaid=gap68 Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/?gaid=gap68Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/?gaid=gap68Deconversion Anonymous
https://gracefulatheist.com/category/podcast/deconversion-anonymous/?gaid=gap68 Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

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This week's show is a Deconversion not so Anonymous episode. My guest this week is Rachael Parsons Svendsen. Rachael is a Licensed Marriage and Family Counselor at RCPS Therapy. Rachael became a Christian at three years old. She went to Biola University and studied philosophy. Later in life, she experienced the effects of Religious Trauma: just setting foot in a Church she would break down in tears. Honesty is an important value for Rachael and part of what led her to deconversion. She talks about the difficulty of relationships with believers in her life while attempting to maintain honesty. Rachael and I investigate the experience of cognitive dissonance and religious trauma. We discuss the importance of the Easter story to Western thought, what is like to parent post-deconversion and the loss of the (false) sense of control after deconversion when difficult life events occur. Rachael points out that she does not have it all together post-deconversion. We agree we are all winging it. Links RCPS Therapy
https://rcpstherapy.com/ Small Words Big Stories
https://www.instagram.com/smallwords_bigstories/ Interact Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/?gaid=gap67Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/secular-grace/?gaid=gap67Adverse Religious Experiences
https://gracefulatheist.com/category/adverse-religious-experiences/?gaid=gap67 Promos Religion Shouldn't Hurt
https://www.instagram.com/religion.shouldnt.hurt/Conference on Religious Trauma
https://pheedloop.com/CORT/site/home/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
https://makaihbeats.net/

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