Graceful Atheist Podcast

My guest this week is John Marriott. We are talking about deconversion from the Christian perspective. John is the Director of Global Learning and teaches in the department of Philosophy of Religion and Ethics at Biola University. John did his PhD dissertation focused on deconversion from Christianity to atheism. He has written a book on deconversion called "A Recipe For Disaster," which is directed to the Church on the ways they are setting up believers to lose their faith. I define [faith] as having enough reasons for a hope worth acting on.
I think there enough reasons for me to act on this [faith].
I first came across John's work in an interview he did with Randal Rauser. I was struck by the honesty and clarity that he had in describing deconversion. In particular this quote: Something similar underwrites a significant percentage of deconversions. The biblical narrative that once easily fit within their childlike understanding of reality began to get squeezed out as they matured in their understanding of reality. The stories in the Bible about miracles, witches, giants, demons, etc. began to feel as out of place as Santa. To resolve the problems they may seek answers that will allow them to continue to believe in such things as adults in the 21st century. This is the experience not just of those who deconvert but all educated, reflective Christians today. I suspect that even for those that do remain Christians, the cognitive dissonance never completely goes away, it just has been reduced to a level that allows them to continue to believe. For deconverts however, the cognitive dissonance is not sufficiently assuaged by apologetics. It grows despite their efforts and reaches a tipping point. As in the case with Santa, the only way to resolve the tension is to admit what they know is true. God does not exist.
John proved to be as honest in person as he is in his writing. He met me in an honesty contest and we found points of agreement on what it is like to deconvert. Even though we disagree on the conclusions we were able to have a vital conversation. Links Website
https://www.johnmarriott.org/ A Recipe For Disaster book
https://www.johnmarriott.org/a-recipe-for-disaster Randal Rauser interview
https://www.christianpost.com/voice/the-problem-of-christians-becoming-atheists.html Interact Deconversion and How to Deconvert
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/deconversion/
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
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My guest this week is Richard Swan. Richard grew up Catholic, became an Anglican and then moved on to Pentecostalism. He was a worship leader and an active member of the Christian music scene including touring as Graham Kendrick's choir director. He began to notice that regardless of his person life the people responded in worship under his leadership. This began his questioning which eventually led to his deconversion. Post-deconversion, Richard is now the director of London City Voices, a non-religious community choir. Richard has figured out how to use his passion for music to build a secular community. In our conversation, we talk about the power of music to bring people together, how it can be manipulated and what it takes to be a community builder.
Links Website
https://www.londoncityvoices.co.uk/ YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCE7166Y1HBO7_lh7_yjE4g Twitter
https://twitter.com/LondonCityVoice Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/412432238841455/ Interact Deconversion How To
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
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This week's guest is Amy Logan. Amy is the podcast host of Exmormonology. She is a certified life coach who helps people through exiting Mormonism, deconstructing and thriving in a post-faith life. Amy was the perfect Mormon girl. She did everything right. She attended BYU. She was married in the Temple. When she discovered a book covering the full history of Mormonism she began to have doubts. Until she had what she describes as the "moment," sitting in her car crying her eyes out with the realization that she could no longer call herself a Mormon. If the church is true, it has nothing to fear,
and I get to figure this out.
It was at that moment I gave myself permission.
She continued on for a while trying to maintain some semblance of belief. She tried to "hang on to Jesus." But eventually that crumbled too.
Today, Amy helps those who have also left the Mormon church live full and healthy lives. Exmormonology is not just for those who have left Mormonism, it is for anyone who has gone through a faith transition. I knew life is never going to be the same.
But I didn't know that it could be better at that point.
Links Amy's website:
https://amyloganlife.com/ Exmormonology podcast:
https://amyloganlife.com/category/podcast/ Twitter:
https://twitter.com/amyloganlife Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/amyloganlife/ YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWLNS7aHLgQ6UaiJVX8yrDw Truman Show: ending clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn5kuDdeGzs Interact Deconversion How To:
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

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My guest this week is Dr. Clint Heacock. Clint is the host of the Mindshift Podcast that focuses on reconstruction after deconstruction. Clint grew up in the Church of Christ with parents who followed the Bill Gothard method of child rearing. Clint now describes this as cultic practices. What I need to do is discover the authentic Christianity
… and then I wasn't able to do it.
After pursuing a PhD in Theology in the U.K. while teaching Clint began to recolonize the disparity between what he believed and what he was teaching. The problems with the bible became too much. At the time Clint was hosting a podcast called "Preacher's Forum." The content had become too radical for its audience. He then changed the podcast into Mindshift and as his listeners have told him, he began deconstructing in public. Only when you physically remove yourself and
psychologically remove yourself,
that's when you start to think critically.
Clint has has had a focus on cult studies, Christian Dominionism and Christian reconstruction where politics and religion meet. He has had various experts in these fields on his podcast. Best advice: Get yourself educated
Most important Clint has a heart for people. Just because we no longer are religious does not mean we lose our sense of pastoral care. Links Mindshift Podcast
http://mindshiftpodcast.co.uk/ Blog
https://medium.com/@clintheacock
https://medium.com/@clintheacock/leaving-christianity-is-a-lot-harder-than-it-looks-8930f532e41e Interact Deconversion How To
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
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My guest this week is David Johnson, the co-host and creator of the Skeptics and Seekers podcast and blog. David is a former Church of Christ member and a pastor's kid. He was baptized at 7, leading the church in song at 7, preaching at 12, the youth leader at 15 and assistant minister at 21. His deconversion process began as he examined the Church of Christ's doctrine against musical accompaniment in worship. He says "the little things, were the big things." And if the little things were wrong, what else might be wrong? You know, I think we might be wrong about that [instrumental accompaniment].
And that was hard for me.
It was hard in a way that I am not going to be able to express.
For me, if we were wrong about musical instruments, we were wrong about everything.
Deconversion was "like death" for David. Today David uses an unabashed polemic approach to counter-apologetics to reveal the problems with Christianity and faith in general. You can find him on his Skeptics and Seekers podcast and on his appearances on Justin Brierley's Unbelievable? podcast. You can read the book he co-authored in response to Justin Brierley: Still Unbelievable!
Links Skeptics and Seekers blog
https://skepticsandseekers.squarespace.com/ Skeptics and Seekers podcast
https://anchor.fm/skeptics-and-seekers Still Unbelievable! the book
https://reasonpress.net/SU1E David Johnson's appearances on Justin Brierley's Unbelievable? podcast
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable/Episodes/Unbelievable-Is-the-resurrection-unbelievable-Jonathan-McLatchie-vs-David-Johnson
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable/Episodes/Unbelievable-Can-Justin-defend-his-own-book-feat.-David-Johnson-Andrew-Knight-Randal-Rauser My recent appearance on Skeptics and Seekers
https://skepticsandseekers.squarespace.com/blog/x-tians-part-one-what-christians-who-stay-need-to-know-about-the-christians-who-dont Interact Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
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This week's show is a Deconversion Anonymous episode. My guest this week is Sarah. Sarah is a co-author of the book "Still Unbelievable!" She is a regular poster on the Unbelievable? discussion boards. Sarah has a unique blend of down to earth perspective and an intellectual rigor. Sarah grew up a Christian. She was a part of the Shepherding Movement which is now considered a cult. She has moved from the Anglican church, to (British) Baptist, and then to Charismatic Vineyard churches. Until she began to research her own faith. What she found was an utter lack of evidence and a confusing morass of conflicting information. She describes her search for validation as "going forensic" as she studied apologetics, philosophy, cosmology and evolution. Ultimately, she could not keep god on "life support" and she is now an agnostic. Links Reason Press and the Still Unbelievable! book
https://reasonpress.net/
"Sophie's" Story
https://reasonpress.net/SU1E/Sophie1
https://reasonpress.net/SU1E/Sophie2 Skeptics and Seekers
https://skepticsandseekers.squarespace.com/blog/x-tians-part-one-what-christians-who-stay-need-to-know-about-the-christians-who-dont Justin Brierley's Unbelievable? podcast
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable Interact Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/Send in a voice message to the podcast:
https://anchor.fm/gracefulatheist/message Support the podcast here. Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
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My guest this week is Sam, the blogger behind When Belief Dies. Sam is also starting an upcoming podcast of the same name. Which will include his friend Dave who remains a believer with questions. They will tackle the difficult questions about Christianity with mutual respect and curiosity. Sam was a very dedicated to Christ and to his church. He was in the process of becoming an elder when depression and doubt led to deconversion. Sam tried to appease his doubt with apologetics to no avail. Now Sam uses his insights post-deconversion to help others who are doubting and in the process of deconverting. Links Blog
https://whenbeliefdies.com/ Twitter
https://twitter.com/WhenBeliefDies Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/whenbeliefdiesblog/ Interact My guest appearance on the Skeptics and Seekers podcast
https://skepticsandseekers.squarespace.com/blog/x-tians-part-one-what-christians-who-stay-need-to-know-about-the-christians-who-dontDeconversion
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

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This week's show is a Deconversion (not so) Anonymous episode. My guest this week is Stephen Barry. Stephen was a Seventh Day Adventist who deconverted while attending college studying theology. When he was exposed to other ideas and other people even within his own faith tradition, this small amount of scrutiny led to deconversion. After losing the community of the black church, Stephen has found secular community. Though he notes we have a long way to go to be more inclusive of people of color in the secular community. Stephen is a musician and a music critic. He blogs about this love of music with great insight on Tublr. We discuss explicitly spiritual music and how we interpret it post-deconversion. Stephen's break down of the H.E.R. song, "Lord is Coming."
https://barryorchestra.tumblr.com/post/190207895358/barryorchestra-presents-top-50-of-2019-26 Links Twitter
https://twitter.com/barryorchestra Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/barryorchestra Blog
https://barryorchestra.tumblr.com/ Music
https://barryorchestra.bandcamp.com/ Interact Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/ Deconversion Anonymous episodes:
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/category/podcast/deconversion-anonymous/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

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My guest this week is Jessica Hagy. Jessica is the artistic and comedic genius behind the blog, Indexed. She has recently written a book titled, The Humanist Devotional. Jessica is an artist, an author, a comedian, and a marketing and social media guru. Get as humble as you can.
Jessica grew up secular and calls herself a humanist. It is not that she rejected the bible, but rather that there was so much more for her to learn. In the episode she uses the analogy of a library card as granting access to the world's knowledge. Access that she took advantage of. Small talk can get big fast.
We walk through her 10 steps on how to be an interesting person and re-imagine them as how to find meaning and purpose as a humanist. Do something!
Links Blog
https://thisisindexed.com/ Twitter
https://twitter.com/jessicahagy Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/jessica_hagy/ 10 Steps on how to be interesting
https://inkandescentwomen.com/the-women/author-jessica-hagy/ The Humanist Devotional
https://www.amazon.com/Humanists-Devotional-Meditations-Worlds-Greatest-ebook/dp/B07YCT8NNY/ How To Be Interesting
https://www.amazon.com/How-Be-Interesting-Simple-Steps-ebook/dp/B00ANSW8MW/ Interact Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/secular-grace/Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/ Why I am a humanist
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/2017/11/18/why-i-am-a-humanist/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

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My guest this week is Sasha Sagan. Sasha has written a beautiful book called For Small Creatures Such As We: Rituals For Finding Meaning In Our Unlikely World. The book title comes from a quote in the book Contact: For small creatures such as we,
the vastness is bearable only through love.
Ann Druyan and Carl Sagan from Contact Sasha and the book she has written embodies Secular Grace and carries on the graceful life philosophies of her parents. Sasha has a galaxy spanning perspective on life that only the child of physicist can have. Sasha has an infectious joy about life. Listening to her or reading her work it is hard not to share in this joy. In her book, Sasha argues that we as human beings need ritual in our lives to mark the passage of time, to celebrate the momentous moments in our lives and to mourn the loss of loved ones. We discuss secular grief in the face of the loss of her father, Carl Sagan, when she was 14 years old. Sasha shares the wise parting words he had for her and the ongoing impact he has had on her and the world. Links Website
https://www.sashasagan.com/ Twitter
https://twitter.com/SashaSagan Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/sashasagan/ For Small Creature Such As We
https://www.amazon.com/Small-Creatures-Such-We-Unlikely-ebook/dp/B07N5JQXFK/ Interact Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/secular-grace/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

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