GreenplanetFM Podcast

A conversation between two lively caring Kiwi women about the state of our nation.

Liz Gunn and Lisa Er took time this week to Korero about the state of the nation and the ways in which New Zealanders can educate ourselves about our country and our world.

(A korero is a conversation or a discussion.)

Sadly, the wider research on our country's current poverty and homelessness, on our record suicide numbers, on the widening gap between the haves and the have nots, can have the sense of a litany of failures . There are many reasons to feel discouraged.

BYPASS MAINSTREAM MEDIA

Yet the freedoms offered by the internet, and online (and radio) discussion, can offer a way through this sense of overwhelm.

Lisa and Liz discuss the ways in which to become more informed and to find the courage to question the norms and the prevailing viewpoints often sold to us through media acolytes of the government viewpoint. From there, it's rewarding to become actively involved - by each of us making our own contributions, in our own corners of this country we love. Liz talks of her work with the homeless on our streets and Lisa refers to the nurturing of a system of values as a bedrock for political and societal decision-making.

Perhaps the biggest issue coming in to the election is the need to find the passion to stand up and to speak out. Certainly that is the spirit in the studio when Lisa and Liz meet for their discussions.

ISSUES

One can see on social media much distress about the poverty in New Zealand, lack of housing, homelessness, and frustration about the state of our rivers and lakes. There are those who passionately want change, to cannabis laws, 1080 drops, fluoride in our water, and the banking system. Others want to ensure that our food is safe and labelled, and that genetic engineering is not let out into the environment. Education and health figure strongly in the list of concerns that people have. Some people concentrate on single issues and become experts, and others view the issues from a bigger picture.

However all of the above, and more, need to be included in the discussions we have, especially before the elections. Unfortunately the mainstream media tends to focus on leaders and not on policy so some people feel disinclined to vote.

Corruption is another issue that people find hard to accept but as Nicky Hager show us in his two latest books, "Dirty Politics", and "Hit and Run", we need to be very awake and aware.

HOPE

Both Liz and Lisa hope that joining in with this korero - through your own listenership - will nurture passion in each valued listener, and bring the simmering fire in your belly to life in a burning blaze of thoughtful discussion on the main aspects of New Zealand life that need to be improved . Such outspokenness will lend an urgency to pre-election build-up, and may even inspire our families -and especially our young - to sign up as voters, and speak up as Kiwis.

Links

UNICEF report: New Zealand 34th out of 41 developed countries for child well being"

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/93583589/unicef-report-wellbeing-of-kiwi-kids-languishes-behind-other-developed-countries

"No lunches for poor children"

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/shows/2017/05/lunchbox-differences-in-decile-1-and-decile-10-schools.html

This programme is sponsored by The Awareness Party

Caroline Robinson is the founder of Cabal, a creative studio exploring and advancing new pathways for regenerative development. Results of Cabal's public art collaborations can be seen across Auckland City and beyond. The whole living systems practice behind these artworks, informs Cabal's wider role as an integration facilitator, contributing to complex city-making projects by supporting project teams to grow the capability to work in full reciprocity within their unique community and place.

I first met Caroline at Dave Breuer's - Anew NZ 'group mind gathering' - at AUT - Auckland University of Technology. There she had a huge blank art board at this visionary function that let her visually translate the stories that speakers covered, to that very engaged audience. This enabled people to see how intellectual concepts and mental information can be elegantly transcribed into a visual form that was holistic in intent and that lead us to explore as participants, how we the people can become involved and renew our whole country.

Based on Measures of Genuine Progress (and "genuine economic success"), as a challenge to the misuse of GDP, via the measurements of social, cultural, economic, environmental and governance wellbeing - with the public shared visions determining the goals of wellbeing. (See at the bottom of this posting.)

Measuring Human Joy and Contentment

Dr Ron Coleman from Canada was at this function to explain and Dr Marilyn Waring http://www.marilynwaring.com/ as an Ex National Party Member of Parliament (who went/rebelled against the National Prime Minister Robert Muldoon, many years previously) introduced Ron as she had been doing work on the 'true' cost of living index and how do we measure success - particularly our decision making process at a governmental level. Known as the 'genuine progress indicators' - meaning not just managing the gross national product and financial benefits from across the country - but also understanding what makes us flourish - what brings joy and happiness and peace as well as bringing balance in a holistic way.

Today, Caroline as an extraordinary creative artist - is still very much aligned with the notion of 'genuine progress indicators' she remains very interested and curious about what are the conditions that we need for life to flourish within our homes, within our communities, our nation and our planet.

Community & Connection

Asking the question? - How do we create a flourishing for all of life - including ourselves?

Food being a conductor of getting together to eat and share … gatherings around eating and sharing - being a universal common ground - and in the world of today that needs to be more unified - Caroline's focus is - how do we bring this all together?

So what is it we need to improve? Like how do we re relate to each other - connect the fragmentation and those who have been isolated from each other? How do we best do this? So that we are working all together as a more dynamic whole?

Because the processes of regeneration of rebirthing of healing is becoming paramount as there's a lot that is out of balance and in crises - there is much that needs to be addressed.

So what is the journey we need to take to come back into wholeness and that everybody has a role to play in this.

And with the experience and the practices that she brings to the conversation -

The Land and Sacred Place

Caroline is very aware of place and the historical implications of how did that particular area come into being - the terrain, the living matter, the water sources and courses - the Maori tribes or iwi that were present prior to the coming of the white man - the sacredness of life over a very broad context .

That there are many areas of land in Auckland that housing and buildings sit on - yet underneath these houses are a hidden creeks where a spring once was. That in today's urbanised sprawl a little rivulet - or tiny creek, can be a wonderful play area for young children - where the water is clear, healthy and cool. Kids can see their reflection, see the stones or marine flora around it, maybe cockabullies or kura - freshwater crayfish - yet today's developers will most probably put pipes in this area and pipe all the water away underground and thus the stereotyped boring industrial housing complex - hypnotises us into a thousand high priced houses looking basically the same, on a treeless landscape - scraped of nature - is the NZ culture of homogenous sameness?

Auckland Connection -Tamaki Makaurau

Coming from a Taranaki farm near Stratford in the rural landscape, that had many different animals - gave her a deeper sense of nature and its richness. That when she arrived in high density housing Auckland gave her cause for reflection.

Tamaki Makaurau - Auckland, gave her another understanding of place - of the Maori, the mauri (essence) and going deeper and feeling the grief of the landscape and ecology of what has been lost - in the vast forest of what was once Auckland and the covering up of water courses or arterial waterways by burying them and piping that water to the sea as per the Horotiu stream for example that used to run down the centre of Queen Street in Auckland.

That there are springs or puna that are even very close to the PlanetFM radio station that emanates pristine water that bubbles up out of the volcanic rocks and lava - very pure water - and there are around 51 volcanoes that comprise the whole city of Auckland. With numerous cones that we can climb, dotted around the city.

Public Domain and Community Involvement

Caroline has a feeling for public domain and community projects

She has been involved in the Panmure and Glen Innes suburbs of Auckland for the master plan for the town centre - bringing story of people and place, including geological and ecological activity so as to define and development projects.

In this process - getting to know each other as humans is so very critical. if we are to develop trust - mana - wairua and mauri - all are integral to deeper connection.

Living Earth Papatuanuku.

The mentions Te Urewera in Tuhoe country - as a park with human rights - that for the Tuhoe people and the NZ Government acknowledge at some level that 'the land is a living being.' Papatuanuku - Mother Earth.

Caroline is focused on find a space for people to work out the complexities of the challenges that are facing us - and allow them a way to work themselves out.

Regeneration

In this regenerative practice it covers working out complexity - that there is a harmonising energy within nature that has the ability to work things out. Caroline says it is in many ways 'beyond consensus' - and in 'trusting the wisdom of life.'

It knows how to work complexity out - all we need is the space to take the time to connect - and communicate - share the breath and weave family - and though this sounds philosophical there is a very pragmatic quality to it - see her sculptures along the motorway in Grafton gully in Auckland - where the artwork has an intention to speak to the resonance of that place and its history and respond to that.

She says that the art does not need to be a sculpture - that it can be a building as in the Living Whare in Taneatua - In Tuhoe country - it could be a roading project - even a skyscraper - (Listen)

That everything we do - needs to become an art form.

That the universe is a work of art - that our planet and all its biota and landscapes are an art form - thus the importance for us as humans is to create our homes on our home planet into art forms that embed beauty and geometry as a reflection of the magnificence of creation and of what we can evolve.

Something that Caroline says meets all of our needs at once … be it every building built - every community developed can be part of a regeneration into a greater whole. Economic - social, cultural - spiritual and our human developmental journey they can all coalesce together - it is possible.

That the universe is a work of art - and our planet and nature is one too

The Living Future Institute - https://living-future.org/

The Living Building Challenge - has a 'check out test' where if you are an architect and/or builder you have to use only materials that are ecologically sustainable and non polluting?

They have a red list of 25 chemicals, that cannot be in any building materials.

Firth Concrete in NZ now have a product that is biologically safe and comes up with a big tick.

You can now check your home building products - https://living-future.org/declare/declare-about/

'A Declare Label' Answers Three Questions:

1. Where does a product come from?
2. What is it made of?
3. Where does it go at the end of its life?

The Regenerative Economy is becoming a renewed mantra for today and tomorrow.

https://medium.com/@designforsustainability/towards-a-regenerative-economy-bf1c2ed6f792

Regenerative Building - One being finalised in the Wynyard Quarter here on Auckland Waterfront Educational Centre for Sustainable Coastlines. http://sustainablecoastlines.org/the-flagship/

Biophilia - living in accord with your home that is embedded in nature and all of life.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biophilia_hypothesis

This interview covers Homelessness too.

The amount of homeless in this country is a crisis here in NZ. That there are ways forward on this important issue for people to have a home and be safe and secure Not only warm and dry homes but homes that become temples of belonging - places where we can really belong and be and developed ourselves … We can do many things, we can build good homes, we know how to live on and with the land - grow gardens and quality food - let's have a conversation about the larger NZ - where we all live. So that we are really regenerating life. (Listen)

Omaru stream Glen Innes Auckland - One of the few remaining streams that have not been piped and buried.

https://www.watercare.co.nz/SiteCollectionDocuments/AllPDFs/Glen_Innes_Matters_Feb_2017.pdf

"Ko au te awa, ko te awa ko au."

The whakatauki above, translated into English, says

'I am the river and the river is me'

Call to Action

Caroline says: "climate change is a deadline for humanity …"

http://www.cabal.co.nz/

Introduction to Regenerative Development (5 short videos) https://vimeo.com/album/4650028

As per in the introduction of Dr Ron Coleman - Genuine Progress Indicators.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genuine_progress_indicator

I have just had Professor Mark Orams' in the station for a very uplifting exchange on the state of NZ's inshore waters that connect out and around to embrace our whole planet. His own interests focussed on marine recreation and sport - high performance sport, leadership, coaching and outdoor education. A professional sailor who as a youngster was a keen 'yachtie' winning both NZ and World titles as well as a crewman on Sir Peter Blake's round the world winning team - plus been involved in two America's Cups as well. He calls for collaborative work and for ordinary people at grassroots level to lead from the front. For having a healthy understanding of the vastness of our ocean systems - and having spent a lot of time racing and visiting other countries, recognises that from a planetary perspective - the global marine systems are in increasing trouble and that these challenges must be urgently addressed. Acknowledging that NZ has still got an opportunity to initiate the much needed corrective measures if we are to arrest the decline of fish stocks, ocean pollution, drifting plastics and runoff from the land - among numerous tipping points.

Indigenous Connection

Mark says it is our engagement with nature that has to be addressed as we pakeha and white races have put distance between us and the natural world - whereas indigenous peoples are affiliated far more closely as they have lived more embedded in the natural process. Pacific Islander and Maori have a natural affinity to the cycles of nature. Especially harvesting food, and survival etc and of their understanding of the seasons and the food planting and gathering. He further reiterates, that for indigenous peoples - that connection goes beyond the basics of knowledge and integrates through into cultural connection as well as spiritual wisdom .

Having been around as the human species for about 200,000 years and a great majority of this time - all of us has been deeply connected with nature - we all have been indigenous peoples.

That for we in the developed world, especially Australia and NZ it has been a relatively short time - that we have actually lived apart from nature - quite possibly only about 3 or 4 human generations - or from the industrial revolution onwards. What this means is that in our DNA - in our 'substance' for the greater course of our history we have had that deep connection with nature as part of who we are.

Mark then goes on to talk about our immersion into nature and the psychological shift of our perspective as we embed ourselves into the greater awareness of the immensity of its power. Covering also our spiritual well being - and that through recreation, getting away from city and urban life and going bush, to the mountains, on a river or a lake - to sea, that recreation is actually 're-creation' - and the time to restore our energies and well being.

Covering working with nature as against it - reading the signs, wind direction, water currents, moon phase and aware of the weather and being able to astutely adapt to harness the natural forces of nature - by bringing about a greater attunement and wellbeing. Where we can not control wind, waves or rain, but we learn how to adapt.

Some days - all goes well and the elements are warm and soft whereas some days or nights nature throws the full force of its fury and we have to be very focused and alert - thinking 'gee - am I going to make it through this?'

He says that the contrasting situations are healthy as they are awe inspiring and re-connecting and they give us a different perspective that we cannot control Mother nature or control everything that happens to us or everything that surrounds us. What this does it forces us to slow down to the pace of nature and he says that this is a very healthy thing. Because most of us today are rushing to everything - to work, home from work, events and other commitments and our days are very, very full - and we control largely what we do - where we go, when we choose to do it - or others control it for us.

However, when we are out in the middle of the ocean in a very small boat we cannot determine what happens - and in these situations be it calm or stormy - it can be very primordial - a very basic thing and Mark sees it as a very good thing as it lets us get a true feel of nature - inside.

Listen

New Zealand Environmental Challenges compared with Overseas.

Speaking on the waters surround NZ - they are largely pretty clean especially the further out we go, however closer into the shore we have numerous challenges because 3 or 4 generations ago (40-60 years) the conditions were far better, but NZ's population has increased with much development around the Auckland coastline. As well as globally the population has now jumped up by an extra 5 billion people/consumers since 1950.

This huge spike in population has had a large affect on this country, on the shoreline and coastal waters. However he says we can still engage with the sea today where our health is not put at risk - whereas with so many countries overseas the coastal waters are so polluted that you would never swim - let alone, put your head under the water - worse swallowing a mouthful or having it enter your body by a cut or an abrasion - especially where there are large populations living on the water's edge, or that their catchment drains into that coastal ecosystem. So there are compromised ecosystems as a result of human activity and our disposal of waste products either deliberately or accidentally that he says is very sobering … so much so that it is always a joy for him to come back to NZ waters and a cleaner marine environment, which he says we cannot take for granted and that we need to be very vigilant about it and that we have to work very hard to maintain.

Everything is Connected

Everything is connected - what ever we do on the land has an affect on the inshore coastal environment - the same pattern has occurred - for example - car tires and the chemicalised particulates wearing off on to the road - off the tires, as well as the dripping of fluid out of car exhaust pipes onto the road - then it rains and runoff and stormwater enters into the coastal waters - curtailing and degrading the area and forcing away fish and shellfish from rocks and surrounding bays - etc - for example Auckland's East Coast Bays are virtually devoid of the super abundance of fish life of 80 years ago.

Talk to any person of 60-70 years plus of age and they will say that things are know where as good as they once were. There is a lot of wisdom in the Elders and they can tell us how it's used to be like - so that we have this information that is telling us about this long term slow, chronic degradation - and this is very difficult situation to solve!

What We Can Do

For answers, there are some worthy innovative NZ's schemes at present - marine protected areas which are stark contrasts to the degradation that is happening. These are Goat Island at Leigh http://www.doc.govt.nz/parks-and-recreation/places-to-go/auckland/places/cape-rodney-okakari-point-marine-reserve-goat-island/

on the East coast - North of Auckland and Tiri Tiri Matangi Island http://www.doc.govt.nz/parks-and-recreation/places-to-go/auckland/places/tiritiri-matangi-scientific-reserve-open-sanctuary/ that have been locked away for a sufficient amount of time and are now thriving - especially as Goat Island was left to its own renewal other than to stop fishing and extractive industries and now it is alive with fish and a huge drawcard for people wanting to see how NZ once was. As for Tiri Tiri Matangi - tree planting has occurred plus the introduction of native bird species and now it is a paradise of greenery and bird song - where once it was barren grassland denuded of trees.

So with 'commitment, will and effort' - we can bring back nature with some conscious decisions being made to turn things around. NZ has many 'off shore Arks' where islands have been set aside to become sanctuaries for endangered native flora and fauna and these are very successful that they are Islands of Hope - John Craig and Neil Mitchell on bringing Tiri Tiri Matangi into being - that bold decision making is needed - like Prof John Moreton and Bill Ballentine did with Goat Island as advocates getting people to think about protecting the marine environment and bringing people with them.

Grassroots Action

These examples Marc says are really important - because when we act together many superb results can come about. These are empowering stories and that our future can be far better as a result. He says grassroots are the answer - he is a massive fan of the people who work in the 'not for profit sector' - people whom have made huge sacrifices of time, energy and money and made enormous sacrifices for causes that they believe in.

From large organisations like the Royal Forest and Bird Protection Society http://www.forestandbird.org.nz/ to the small ones like the Motutapu Restoration Society http://www.motutapu.org.nz/ or the education group 'Experiencing Marine Reserves' http://www.emr.org.nz/ - a small not for profit charitable trust that takes children into marine reserves to show them deeper qualities of nature and what marine protection can do.

Volunteers by the Thousands

Right across NZ here are hundreds of thousands of NZers who volunteer to make a difference because they believe in it. He says that these dedicated people are just not acknowledged enough which is a great pity - they are the real NZers - the real kiwis doing great things out there - we need to be proud of what they do - they are unsung heroes - never getting national awards or headlines in the media. To Mark they are the real heroes of NZ. He encourages us to take leadership and see what we can do around your particular area and take some people with you and do weeding and clean up beaches, streams etc.

Local Communities Working Together

Local communities - in nature, with and for nature - establishing win wins - as meeting good people and achieving a satisfactory result, because he says there is a primeval connection that after a full day or a week of working together - we will go home and have the best nights sleep in a long time because we have met and worked alongside people from vasty different walks of life, all with good intentions and especially being team spirited.

Good People Committing To Co-operate

Mark states that the portrayal of human behaviour and existence that comes through the MSM media is not an accurate portrayal of the great majority of people - the great majority of the humanity whom live in this world and in NZ are good people - they are well intentioned - they care about their families, they care about their neighbours and they care about nature and they care about their country - These people don't get the headlines! Listen ...

There are people everywhere who have decent values and morals and will help you out - who will be friendly, who will greet you - who are people you can trust - this is the essence of being a decent person - it's important to remember this. Plus, that we hold these values for ourselves as well and take the high road.

Values and Principles.

He mentions that some of the above principles may have been more prevalent 30 to 60 years ago - but the principles of honesty and integrity and decency and looking after one another are what he feels are at the heart of what is is to be a human - and certainly what it means to be a New Zealander.

We talked about Sir Peter Blake and team spirit and what this means. Though a cliche, a champion team - will always beat a team of champions - what is needed is a tight synergistic team. He said Peter intuitively understood a number of things.

He could take on a competitive team that could have more resources, perhaps be more talented, be more experienced and beat them because of the power of the team.

Where as a member of his team you always felt that you were important - that you mattered - that your opinion could add value.

So even if you were sweeping the floors or cleaning the toilet or the person with a brain the size of the planet making computations of fluid dynamics and design of the boat - you were important.

That we are all part of a greater whole and that we all depend on this planet that we share.

When we pool and pull together collectively - we make a massive difference.

Conscious Choices

Decision that we take - the products that we buy - the packaging that we use - the cars that we drive - the decisions we make of the companies that we support - or the candidates we vote for. We need to be Aware.

In the end Mark says that we have to do the best we can with what God gave us and that this is the mantra that Mark lives by.

Listen ...

Covering the 'Overwhelmers' - Fukushima - radiation in the Pacific ocean - etc - how do we address situations like this? Plus Climate Change.

What can I do as one individual to be able to make a difference?

Mark says - collectively this is where we make major changes.

Saying that we need to take heart with Sweden's Volvo's decision to make all electric or hybrid cars in 10 years time. That they don't make these decisions lightly - that they are 'reading the tea leaves' - they see that there is a greening of the market place and they are positioning themselves to take advantage as well as lead …

Voting

Voting with your dollars - not buying from certain corporations who are at variance with your philosophy - thus more people supporting this notion will impel the company to change its outlook - its products range - its way it connects with consumers.

But first - before you lead others - lead yourself - walk your talk

Mark talked about mental health and that we in NZ have some major challenges around disempowered people - especially male youth in this country of getting to a point of a dark space - that when we do good things for others or nature and give of ourselves - we also reap the rewards of that good act as well - that by giving we have a better sense of our purpose - we have more satisfaction as to who we are as a person that if we like, we really can achieve a greater level of contentment and happiness.

He says that ironically that one of the answers to mental health is to dedicate at least some of your time to helping those who are less fortunate and are in such a difficult situation than you are.

Being Respectful

Without being disrespectful Mark says that a lot of the mental health challenges - are actually quite inward looking and are quite self serving - it's about me - it's about awww - I'm in such a difficult situation and my life is terrible and I can't find a way out - and he is not disrespecting that - but one of the ways forward is to actually start thinking about how we can help others, because there are always people who are in a more difficult life circumstance than us!

If we are able to do something that can help them or if we can find a way to reconnect with nature and that we can plant a tree or a series of trees or do something that can allow us - that at the end of the day - we realise that our existence has mattered - that it has made a positive difference. That through us being here - the place is better than it was - these things have an enormous personal benefit for us - listen to the interview for more on this serious subject.

Separation from nature - from our society and the community - it leads to material things outside of ourselves that can cause many problems … listen … these are distractions

Giving is Important - from Ourselves to the Collective Greater Good.

This interview covers communities coming together.

Technology as a separator and not necessarily a bringer of people face to face and eyeball to eyeball and closer into hugging distance.

Mark talks about Natural Empathy

That we have wicked problems - climate change - plastic pollution - declining fisheries - coastal sedimentation and near shore pollutants

All these are our collective fault - we are all part of the problem.

How can we come together and to do something different - as opposed to making them worse?

That we start this philosophical conversation and have the ability to make compromises

"I will give you this - if you will give up that."

Mark asks us to find ways to end polarising viewpoints.

That as we all share the same planet - let's come together to resolve these issues for the sake of future generations.

Dr Mark Orams - most definitely worth listening and taking in.

It's all about an unfolding journey of working with the land experimenting with new and unconventional methods to bring balance to the ecology and yet be able to have the soil sustain them with high quality, nutrient dense - organic food. A life that he and his wife Rachel and children absolutely love. Greg has also been involved in a significant tree planting program that coincided with the Air New Zealand Environment Trust wanting to plant trees to offset some of their aircraft emissions. This enabled them to bring their environmental footprint back down to earth - by planting 85,000 trees, the vast majority being natives.

The Family Farm

Greg Hart, his wife Rachel and family live beside a 30 hectare lake - (80 acres) on 1500 acres or 650 - hectares - which Greg says is an average size farm in the Hawkes Bay region for 1 and a bit person to run …

Their lake was where tuna or eeling took place by early Maori - plus waka or canoes have been found sunken in the lake too. These link back to Maori families, that Greg has connections to.

His farm is a mixture of beautiful rolling hills and some flat land and some steeper hill country with about 30 acres of remnants of native bush which he has been recently adding to.

Unfolding Journey of Discovery

It's all about an unfolding journey of working with the land experimenting with new and unconventional methods to bring balance to the ecology and yet be able to have the soil sustain them with high quality nutrient dense organic food. A life that he wife Rachel and his children absolutely love.

He has a web page called 'Restoring Paradise' - where 1,000 years ago his area would have been in perfect balance …

It's about working with the land, not extracting maximum yield - experiencing family, joy, people visiting and sharing.

Greg has been involved in a significant tree planting program that coincided with the Air New Zealand Environment Trust wanting to plant trees to offset some of its aircraft emissions and bring its environmental footprint back down to earth - by planting 85,000 trees, the vast majority being natives.

The plan was to restore ecosystems and regenerating native forests

To also become a working model of a sustainable regenerating agricultural system and have an open farm where visitors are encouraged to come and reconnect to nature and see where and how their food grows and comes from.

Because at present, NZ's ecological systems, particularly due to dairy farming are becoming more out of balance.

A big driver for Greg is about sustainable food systems and food milage based on oil, and all the fossil fuels consumed in growing food. Grain imports coming from overseas to feed the pigs and chickens has a large ecological footprint.

In Greg's estimation even his hens are not really sustainable either due to lack of granular food - with less organic wheat being grown in NZ.

Perennial as against Annual crop planting

Greg's looking at more perennial crops so as to stop the continued cycle of growing each and every year, with more labour and fuel consumption disturbing the soil, the soil microbes, greater erosion etc.

He has noticed that his pigs are doing quite a lot of damage to the soil on his farm and he has concerns about lack of soil cover and that with recent rains - can wash away this precious soil into drains and away. etc.

Regenerative Agriculture

The present focus is on regenerative agriculture - it is somewhat like organics and an ecological approach to sustainable land management - like building up soil carbon and humus in the soil. This is by reducing our carbon emissions due to the way this particular system sequesters Co2 out of the atmosphere and locking it down in the soil, as the soil is the biggest sink of carbon - it's naturally built into the 'earth system'.

So regenerative agriculture takes and locks down carbon and makes the soil more fertile resilient and also capable of producing more nutrient dense food.

Darren Doherty - http://www.regrarians.org/about/ -

a Permaculture practitioner teacher from Australia - states: if the 5 billion hectares of agricultural soils around our planet were to increase their soil carbon content by 1.6% it would take out 100 parts per million of co2 out of the atmosphere - which is quite doable - this locking it back down in the soil. We could drop c02 content from 400 parts per million to 300 parts per million and it would really benefit our global food production.

Regenerative Agriculture increase biodiversity - whereas the present Neo-Liberal system is still cutting down forests to expand industrial agriculture - Greg is heading in the opposite direction and setting aside the less productive food growing areas and planting trees and restoring ecosystems and he is noticing the incredible increase in insects and bird life and nature is growing back into restoring itself with natural cycles starting to kick back in.

Water Quality

This brings up water quality and with quality humus this acts as a natural water filter and the need to keep the soil after heavy rains from washing into water courses, rivers and out to sea - affecting fishing beds etc.

Holistic Thinking

Greg uses a holistic grazing system and again ' holistic thinking' is embedded throughout the methods that he is using right across his farm as he endeavours to intuitively read what nature requires to rebalance itself and build up the soil carbon with its trillions of microbes - the microflora - especially bacteria and fungi - the 'workhorses' of our planetary ecology.

The use of industrial fertilisers and chemicals are harming the soil biology - especially over the long term - when he wants the soil and planet to be thriving from day one.

Greg's Philosophy is 'do no harm.'

One of his farming heroes is American Joel Salitin - PolyFace farm -http://www.polyfacefarms.com/our-story/ - Time magazine called him the most innovative farmer in the world and he is also a brilliant communicator - He is stacking enterprises on his land - by looking and mimicking how nature generates food.

Embedding Micro Enterprises across the Farm

Being innovative, Greg has created some small micro units - where someone can milk the cows and rear some calves and make an income from that. He is also direct marketing meat from the farm with home kills - and he has people with beehives - doing honey etc - and he sees there are incredible opportunities on the land that he is stewarding and care taking.

Having his own Lodging for Guests.

Having a portable saw mill is advantageous - he uses after cutting down his own trees into timber - which he used to clad his lodge that sleeps 17 people down on his lake side.- The Lodge can be used for reunions, events, workshops, presentation etc and many families and groups come to hang out in nature and reconnect with themselves at a deeper level. Even Corporate groups to breathe deeply again and chill out. It's especially handy around education about earth systems etc, and of the necessity for people to understand the transition to regenerative agriculture.

Deepening Our Connection

That there is so much more that can be done to work with the land but Greg emphasises that it is about people working together and deriving more meaning at the same time.

The interview covers Pure Hawkes Bay - http://purehawkesbay.org/ - that is wanting GE free status for the region and has a lot of local Council support whilst the Federated Farmers from the opposite perspective are arguing against it and the conscious people of the region!!!

Greg's farm is an all grass system - no crops like turnips, swedes, maize and potatoes - as he wants to keep the tractor in the shed and see if he can live without disturbing the soil as much as possible.

Which leads again back to Holistic Grazing

Alan Savoury originally out of Zimbabwe http://www.savory.global/ - who observed the grazing animals of Africa from buffalo and zebra and to the bison of the American plains and with near on millions of animals in these herds - these animals live on a very long seasonal rotation and continually move along eating the tops of grass a lot of it tall and defecating and urinating at the same time. Whilst following hoofed animals break down most of the stalks which are composed of mainly carbon and are pushed down into the dung, into the soil that over time this has built up a deep rich organic soil rich in soils microbes. -

These African areas and great plains in America have some of the deepest richest soils that we have on our planet. That the richness of the soil allows great numbers of animals to be fed over millennia and the animals just kept moving - hence these areas are incredibly rich in grass, soil and deeply rooted plants and grass life. It's turning sunlight into food for grazing animals. It's also like composting on the soil surface.

Grass is basically a carbon pump, the leaves are solar panels - plants are one of the most effective ways of sequestering co2 out of the atmosphere and pulsing it down into the ground.

Greg is doing the same with his cattle using electric fences and moving the cattle everyday - and the rotational moving around the farm has the grass regenerating very fast and healthily. Because they are not eating every blade of grass percentage of leaves and stalks are still being ground into the soil along with dung and urine - the grass springs back into life quickly after …

Back to Joe Salitin and a carbonaceous diaper - dung + leaves and stalks + urine builds up and covers your soil. Caring for it. Listen to the interview

Note that pastoral agriculture is still the backbone of the NZ economy - but is is based on importing mega amounts of fertiliser for agriculture a lot of it phosphate from North Africa and Greg says that all the energy in mining it and trucking or railing it to ports - shipping to NZ then trucking to where it is processed then trucking it out to the rural regions and putting it in an aerial top dressing lane has huge costs as well as an ecological footprint skyrocketing.

Will we have a crimp in fossil fuels in the future? If so Greg is prepared to work as if there could be one.

Greg has learnt from courses in Biological Agriculture - (Listen to 4 interviews by Graeme Sait, as well as Arden Anderson, Christine Jones on GreenplanetFM.com) as well as organics and biodynamics and he finds that this holistic grazing management using these natural cycles has so many benefits.

Utilising Grazing and Tree Cropping Together

Greg then talks about environmental web sites that are saying if we want to save the planet we have to give up meat. Saying that he does not see any vegetarian eco systems in the world - yet animals are part of this nutrient cycling - and he is focusing on growing food producing trees on his farm - to get away from cultivating annual crops for our food. Where instead an integrated perennial polycultural system where you have food producing trees nutrient cycling trees and animals also working through the system - grazing under the trees etc.

Greg talks about vegetarianism and a meat diet - (listen) re rice and pasta wheat not grown in NZ same for pulses are all imported. These use up food miles. Meat is local.

Mark Shepard - 'Restoration Agriculture' - https://permacultureapprentice.com/permaculture-profiles/new-forest-farm-mark-shepard-100-acre-15-years-of-establishment/ - that all our energy and cultivation is going into annual crops - rice, wheat, soy and corn - it's so energy intensive every year - that the soils get ploughed up and the sun bakes and bleaches soil organisms in the heat and then rains can come and wash the soil away - it is disastrous at many levels - there is no sustainability in this, especially when you add chemical sprays and fuel use.

Nut trees in NZ, Greg says is a grand idea reducing our need for a lot of annual soil cultivation. Walnuts, almonds, and hazel nuts have potential in this country

Universities - the need for natural soil science.

Universities are not doing deep soil science - studying nature - but instead are looking at chemical band aids and trying to force feed the plant whilst in many cases destroying the microorganisms that are pivotal to feeding the plant. Many scientists are also spending so much of their time writing submissions for funding that they are spending a great deal of their time endeavouring to dream up ways so as to be financially viable. The commercial expediency of the Neo Liberal winner takes all approach to business - is devastating true scientific research in NZ.

Today's industrial farming has only one big winner, and they are the large agro combines and corporations. Whilst the farmer in so many instances is chemicalising his farm, depleting nature and selling unhealthy produce onto the market.

Sam Lang - https://www.nuffield.org.nz/projects/ - Nuffield 2016 scholar travelling the world staying with Greg looking at sustainable systems and to get financial support to do these studies finds that finance is quite difficult to obtain in the current commercial environment - especially researching a green option.

Covering his crowd funding program with 'million metre streams' -https://millionmetres.org.nz/ - planting around his lake on his property.

Diversity of nature and a diversity of people who end up visiting - it's the friendships and relationships and the warmth of connection - he loves sharing with people a farming experience.

People can also become 'a friend of the farm' with an annual membership and people can - using that money plant trees with Greg's vision of 'Fields of Food. https://www.mangarara.co.nz/product/friend-the-farm/friend-of-the-farm-subscription/ -

He has just had a visit from the Grand Chancellor James Cook hotel in Wellington and this keen group have turned up 5 years in a row and each year they grow another row of food trees on his farm - and this is what happens when you are receptive to work with the NZ public. In the future Greg says that there will be so much food that visitors will take it away and surpluses given to charities …

We also have to get away from this scarcity mindset - to one of abundance

This is only a portion of this very interesting interview. - Tim

These 2 recent videos which include Mangarara - The Family Farm and Greg's philosophies. "Restoring Paradise" and "Regenerators"

www.mangarara.co.nz

When the Christchurch Earthquakes struck 6 years ago - Project Lyttelton was already in operation and they were in many ways pivotal in assisting in and around Lyttelton during and after this disaster.

Project Lyttelton in the South Island could be deemed one of the more unique communities in NZ - as enterprising people are doing effectual things as they build warm community relationships that support each other in their daily life. Situated on the other side of the Port Hills only a few kilometres from Christchurch http://www.lyttelton.net.nz -

Why does a community come together?

Because these people enjoy warm hearted company that belongs to a creative and caring organisation. One that has the component of Time Banking being integral and is within the umbrella of Project Lyttelton - it is in many ways the glue that along with mindfulness and love - hold this little community together. When the Christchurch Earthquakes struck 6 years ago - Project Lyttelton was already in operation and they were in many ways pivotal in assisting in many areas of this disaster.

That as a community it is very open to ideas - if someone comes to them with a concept they will first - run it past their 'vision' - and if it fits and if there is a champion of this vision - they will take it on and support that idea. The important component, is having a champion to run it - as often ideas do come up, but if they have no champion it fails because no one is 'eating breathing and being it.'

When they take on an activity or enterprise, Project Lyttelton also puts an advisory group around it, as it can be quite lonely, and this advisory group can then offer 'group wisdom' to support and assist it in steering this idea or concept into fruition.

Mind Maps & Time Banks Are Important

So they draw up a Mind Map to get a spatial plan of what ideas come up - many of them innovative and what Margaret has found that time and again, that a Time Bank is integral in nearly every mind map that they draw up - because a Time Back has the names of people who have the skills and the know-how and connections to make projects happen.

Time Banks, Margaret says, are the blood supply or the nervous system of the whole area - that as a singular person championing their own project where you have to be your own lawyer, accountant, marketeer, artist, salesperson, go-for - when you are part of a team - you draw from the collective skills of your Time Bank. This is the gift and magic of organising a time bank in your localised area. You are resource rich!

In NZ Time Banking is based around people's secondary skills - that are not their main form of income - as they are taxed if they are following their primary financial means of earning a living. For example - if you are a builder who can do hedge cutting by swapping an hour with a florist who is prepared to paint your garage - one hour of each doing what they are '2nd best at' - is how time banks are structured here in NZ. In the USA and the UK - time banks are exempt from tax - so NZ is very behind with the times on this issue. Where in future there may be an opportunity in NZ when more Time Banks become ubiquitous across the country - there may then be legislation passed that allows an accountant to swap an hour of their accountancy time to have one hour of lawn mowing done, by a full time lawn mower - in return.

A Large Membership for Their Area.

The localised Lyttelton Township has a population of 2,500 and around the broader basin it's naturally a lot larger - yet their Time Bank has around 780 members - which offers up a very broad area of skills that can be drawn on.

They also have Savings Pools where people save collectively and yet lending to each other interest free - and the trust that is around this unique way of pooling money is very abiding.

Huge Amounts of Trust.

Margaret says that one of our biggest blocks is around how we think and that we need to have a totally new look at how we bank, because we have in some ways a large collective block on how we see banks these days - from the large ubiquitous commercial banks and our unknowing-ness around Savings Pools, Cooperative Banks - Trust Banks Time Banks and Green dollars.

Strong Values Base

Project Lyttelton is strongly values based - which they don't actually name - but have a postcard with pictures of these values on - which 'hint' as to what these values might be. Margaret talks a lot about love and also generosity and kindness and the practice of generosity does amazing things and to offer things to people - not expecting anything in return - allow marvellous things to happen.

Rebecca Solnit's book: A Paradise Built in Hell - Extraordinary Communities that Arise from Disaster - http://www.onthecommons.org/paradise-built-hell#sthash.R8lu4JYo.dpbs

Where in disasters people do come together - Whereas Hollywood may show mayhem and everyone running amuck but in reality - people all pull together - they sense a deeper connection - Margaret says that when a disaster happens, everyone 'drops their stuff' and only think about helping their neighbour - that before the authorities finally show up - that little window before - is like paradise (group mind connects) - because everyone is working together - and now today, with that disaster behind them - many people go back to how they were prior to the Earthquake and forget what once was - and Margaret understands that - because our world is run on a financial model - that earning money and getting money to buy things is the central thing - and this brings about disconnection again.

Listen to Margaret talk about how the Time Bank came to be of huge assistance in the Earthquake that also affected Lyttelton - big time.

Associate Professor Lucy Ozanne has written a document on Time Banking -

http://timebanks.nz/resources - That during the time of a disaster, was actually documenting the Lyttelton Time Bank before that disaster struck and was able to follow through giving major insights to its efficacy - as there is very little research on a group being monitored prior to and during a disaster. This document has gone world wide showing that a Time Bank can be pivotal when disaster strikes.

Challenges

The NZ Authorities acknowledged and appreciated what Project Lyttelton accomplished during and after the Earthquake with no financial support. However Margaret says that Time Banks need to be acknowledged in such a way as to pay the administrators, because they cannot live on just credits alone etc - as there is rent to pay and all the other costs in living are many. She says this needs to be changed (because at another level they can act as an auxiliary Civil Defence) and it's too hard for Time Banks to just exist without greater support from the established order. As Time Banks can run far more efficiently if there is someone working in a paid role. This way the community would become far more cohesive, mindful and caring.

Funding for local initiatives like Project Lyttelton is becoming more difficult to obtain too - for reasons unknown - community initiatives of closer knit neighbourhoods is very difficult to enable Government officials to comprehend - so she and the Project Lyttelton team are looking at social enterprises to enable them to support themselves.

Social Enterprises

Their farmers market falls into this category - on good Saturdays they have 50 plus stalls at their market - which all pay a fee that pays the Farmers Market manager as well as supporting the community garden. That Garage Sales* are another social enterprise - and this is continuing from strength to strength. (Listen to this interview) People will give stuff and earn 'time credits'. Plus Project Lyttelton have rented an earthquake deserted (but safe) building where people also bring all their items* that they want to sell.

Community Group Involvement

If you are a community group you can come and run that Garage Sale with that group officiating and at the end of the day they can receive the 'profits of the take' etc and that is the way community groups can piggyback on outreach of Project Lyttelton's goodwill. For example $500 profit was taken on one particular Saturday.

And they can have 4 Garage Sales a week. They have two part time employees - so they are providing work. People who are in real need - they don't have to pay … Margaret, says she loves this model and it feeds people at multiple levels - and the people who run it get to know who needs what in the community. (listening is best)

Time Banks Again - there is not a model that suits everyone - as all situations are different - however the general principles apply - transplanting one model to another area though good in theory - always needs to be revised and changed for that other area or region.

Living and Thriving in the Community

Margaret gets her weekly shopping from the Farmers' Market - due to it being organic and fresh - not from the supermarket where a lot of produce is packaged cartoned and tinned.

A Local Co-Operative

Project Lyttelton has a 'friendship' partnership in a Co-op in Lyttelton which has whole foods and it is owned by 200 people in Lyttelton - this is where Margaret obtains her whole foods, etc - so she shops at the Farmers' Market and the Co-op. That the Co-op also acts as a conduit for all the localised farmers and producers that can sell their products into it and whatever organic produce that they only grow in a very short season - they can bring it to the Co-op.

Social Interaction

They do a lot around food - and shared events - Farmers Market on Saturdays are the best social bumping space to meet people.

Project Lyttelton has a board meeting once a months and they eat and discuss things - paid staff and volunteers meet every week and there is always food there - the savings pools meet every month over a shared meal too.

Another fun event is called grow your own - and a dinner of your own growing - (Listen)

The important Essence or Ingredient of Community is:

Openness - being open with all your accounts - let everyone know where you are getting your money from.

Being Truthful

Love

Being Values based

And Appreciative Enquiry - looking at what is going well and seeing why it is going well - and transferring why it's going well, to other things and projects - and while it is going well including values, like looking at clear communication and acting kindly towards each other.

Including understanding conflict resolution - not that they have had real conflict but to embrace the skill of negotiating through goodwill. Gaining skills to work between and with each other.

The Significance of Appreciative Enquiry

Put up an idea and the very next question is, where's the money? - Project Lyttelton very seldom gets that question now - listen to how they manifest their money - note it is very inventive and novel …. Margaret says if they have a dream - put it out there - drop all attachment to it - and then it starts happening … and all sorts of possibilities come into being … keep talking to people - because they may have skills and they may be the answer.

What NZ needs to involve themselves with, is that each NZer is encouraged to find what finds them joy and what they feel drawn to and follow this notion.

As this is an Election Year we need to be more involved at a national level and raising questions as to what we would like NZ to become … and raising questions.

Be involved in letter writing, submissions - attending meetings even marches and rallies Margaret said she is not drawn to such things, but when times require it she has done it from time to time.

Thinking Global and Acting Local - is where her passion resides.

Present Focus

Project Lyttelton are in the process of running a repair cafe … and remoulding plastics … looking at their waste stream - educating people into the finite nature of our resources - using things wisely and effectively - plus recycling, reusing and reducing items.

She mentions Doughnut Economics - Kate Raworth https://www.kateraworth.com/

As we are taking and extracting far more from our planet's resources - some say we are taking far more than our planet actually can replace.

Becoming aware of our ecological well being - our mental well being and our spiritual well being. Deepening our connection with life.

The Global Commons - recognising that the global commons belongs to no one except the biota of our planet - The Global Commons is the opposite to a corporate raid.

Connection at a Higher Level

Margaret wants to see a method where 'groups' can be in contact and develop the skills in linking organisations together so that we can share - be more cohesive and connected with each other - especially spokespeople.

By building the capacity to communicate nationwide across the sectors - grassroots groups - organising for a common purpose. So that we network our vision to more and more New Zealanders across the country, pulling the threads of community closer together.

Such as 'Not for Profit's' in Christchurch need to form a Time Bank and all work together - and start linking up with expertise and material things like a shared truck or digger as an example.

In a Future Scenario Margaret would like to get rid of party politics - as it locks down initiative - and that we are now caught up in the games that are being played between various parties - as there is no real discussion - (which she admits is a sweeping generalisation) but we understand what she is saying. That the issues have to be debated in a far more open forum.

Instant Localised Internet Voting

She would also like to see 'instant localised voting' on a 'safe, non-hackable' system that allowed people to vote on initiatives at a very localised level - that are binding - in that smaller regions could have more control over their affairs - and possibly voting on Daily Issues even - they would come up on your computer at specific times - maybe every day and this would involve us in 'Participative Democracy' and we could vote on the issues. (Listen to the interview)

She also wants a group of people within the localised community to become 'the voice of the community' - so that instead of having one person speaking on behalf of the community that these 'elected people' - from youth to elders - can then speak - knowing that at heart they have the communities blessing - Margaret says there is a lot of wisdom embedded in her community so why her? And when you get this group together - you can pay them in time credits

This is a very thought provoking and empowering interview of bringing 'conscious' care to you localised area and community.

http://www.lyttelton.net.nz

"We need to base our farming on biology, not on chemicals," says Dr Meriel Watts. "New Zealand needs to WAKE UP to what is going on in conventional farming in this country." "Our food is denatured through chemical use, and New Zealand, compared to the rest of the world, lacks the political will to address this."

Educating the New Zealand Public

New Zealand needs to face up to the widespread use of chemicals that are applied in agriculture, either topically or coated on seeds, and how the chemicals affect our food and therefore our health. There is a toxic plethora of pesticides, herbicides and fungicides, along with artificial fertilisers that make chemical companies masses of money, but are not to the benefit of us, the consumers.

One might think that a so called clean green country, like New Zealand, would be keen to show itself as just that, but instead we apply toxic chemical after toxic chemical all over the country.

In one evening meal, that is not organic, you could be consuming as many as 17 different agro - chemicals in small quantities. Research on how they all work together has not been done. New Zealand's chemical assessments are not being based on science.

Encouraging the NZ Government to involve itself in a Global Awareness Movement

The Formal UN Recommended Organisation SAICM- (Strategic Approach to International Chemical Management) states that highly hazardous pesticides be phased out and replaced by agro-ecology. (Agro-ecology is known as organics in NZ.) However, although 170 countries are involved and send delegates to the meetings, incredibly New Zealand has not chosen to be involved, and seems unaware of the serious repercussions of chemical use. Meriel states that the heads of the Departments for the Environment, Health and Agriculture (Primary Industries) need to attend to learn, and realise the critical situation that NZ is in.

Where is the powerful influence that keeps the toxic chemicals in use? Here's an example from the US.

Dow Chemicals has given a million dollars for Donald Trump's campaign fund. Dow are makers of Chlorpyrifos. This pesticide has been banned by Sri Lanka and Yemen and US scientists have identified it as a major concern, but of course after that donation, the hopes of getting it banned in the US have been dashed.

A New Chemical that has Shown Up on the NZ Market!

In New Zealand we are unsure of the influence by companies like Dow. However the pesticide Chlorpyrifos is used here in New Zealand. There is not much political will to ban it, and although home gardeners are not allowed to use it, the government still allows its use on farms, and by commercial gardeners.

Children are especially at risk. Chlorpyrifos is an acute nerve toxin and suspected endocrine disruptor that has been linked to numerous health issues. It has been found in human cord blood and is known to cause foetal damage and neuro-developmental disorders. Most recently, it has been linked to an increased risk of Attention-Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) in children.

Chlorpyrifos is found at particularly high levels in children. It is prevalent in fruit and vegetables; also in dairy products, nuts, cottonseed, wheat and wheat-based products such as bread and pasta, rice, maize, chickpeas, fish, muesli, jam, olive oil, pizza, hamburgers, raisins; also soft drinks and drinking water.

HAVE YOU EVEN HEARD OF CHLORPYRIFOS? Before this interview, I hadn't.

How do NZers have their Elected Servants in Government,Take Heed of Ubiquitous Chemicals?

So why does our government lack the political will to put a ban on chemicals like chlorpyrifos, glyphosate / Roundup, 1080, and the bee threat neonicitinoids?

Agriculture is the largest sector of the tradable economy in New Zealand. This means that farmers have a strong voice around decisions made that affect them. They and the large chemical trans-nationals will undoubtedly have influence regarding decisions made, that could affect them. However we the public need to have a voice about what affects us – namely some very toxic chemicals.

NZ's Government Department NIWA , the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research, tested the water of Auckland harbour and were very concerned at the level of glyphosate in the water - Yet the Government is ignoring the aquatic environment.

The Soils are a Barometer to Healthy Food, Animals & People

"Our soils are sick from greed-based, irresponsible agricultural practices, pesticides, chemical fertilisers, erosion and mineral depletion, all of which stop or reduce adequate microbial activity in the soil, rendering them sick and/or dead and sterile. Sick soils make for sick plants and sick plants make for sick humans and animals.," Says the president of the US National Health Federation, Scott Tips.

If the soil is poor, not enough micro-organisms are taken up into the plant. So we are replacing nourishment with chemicals. The answer to growing good strong healthy plants that do not need chemical assistance, lies in the soil.

We cannot put the entire blame on farmers, says Meriel. The whole approach to pesticides has to change, from home gardeners, to household use as well as farm use. We can't very well demand farmers change without stopping using fly spray, for example. Fly spray is made with synthetic pyrethrum and is carcinogenic.

The level of cancer is soaring around the world and yet we are not informed about agricultural and industrial chemical use, and its effect on human health.

New Zealand is between 10 & 20 Years Behind - When we Need to be Ahead!

New Zealand is, in Muriel's opinion, between 10 and 20 years behind in understanding the side effects of pesticide use. This is unacceptable.

She challenges which ever government is in power to create a caring state and ensure the health of all people throughout the country. One main way to do this is to walk away from the chemical cocktail that affects us all.

Dr Meriel Watts had a Bachelor of Agricultural Science and a PhD in risk assessment of pesticides and the consequences of its flaws for pesticide policy.

She has been working on behalf of civil society for 27 years on pesticide issues and safer alternatives – including for Greenpeace and the Soil & Health Association. Now she works (since 1993) for Pesticide Action Network (PAN), a global network of about 600 civil society organisations in 90 countries – coordinate PAN Aotearoa NZ, Senior Technical Advisor to PAN Asia Pacific, the regional centre in Malaysia, and represents the global network at UN chemicals conventions, agreements and technical groups.

Meriel has been involved in NZ's organics sector for about 24 years – including helping to establish and run Organic Farm NZ – a low-cost certification scheme for growers supplying only the domestic market. Together with her partner, she runs a certified organic farm, on Waiheke Island, supplying locals with fresh fruit, vegetables, eggs and olive oil.

Author of 5 books on pesticides, Meriel has contributed to numerous other publications including monographs e.g. on both the glyphosate and chlorpyrifos, act.

Her most recent book = Replacing Chemicals with Biology – Phasing out Highly Hazardous Pesticides with Agro-ecology - is about why we need to phase out chemical pesticides. That successful growing without pesticides is possible and is now being proved globally and what policy changes are needed to get us there.

The websites mentioned in the interview:

Replacing Chemicals with Biology: Phasing out Highly Hazardous Pesticides with Agroecology: http://pan-international.org/resources/

and

UN Special Rapporteur on the Right to Food, report on pesticides to UN human Rights Council, A/HRC/34/48: http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/Food/Pages/Annual.aspx

Also of interest may be:

PAN International List of Highly Hazardous Pesticides: http://pan-international.org/resources/

PAN International Consolidated List of Ban Pesticides: http://pan-international.org/resources/

PAN International Monograph on Glyphosate: http://pan-international.org/resources/

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This interview was sponsored by The Awareness Party

Liz, is asking for some leader in NZ to stand up and have the courage to say that we as an island nation, want a GE Free country and be the organic food bowl for the world. With no more Monsanto influence and definitely no more glyphosate.

She wants us to become a 'planetary ark' and be that 'organic food bowl' for the world.

Plus, she WANTS a really clear - NZ Government funded - free from influence - media platform TV - Radio and newsprint / digital where we have quality policy journalists back again, investigating anything within the public domain as well as envisioning healthy possibilities for all of our children's - collective future.

After leaving broadcasting, Liz spent a decade in Australia as a full time Mum and having to learn child rearing with no backup of grandparents or nanny help which she had had when she had worked full time for TVNZ. So she really learnt to be a hands on Mum and how to connect emotionally with her little ones and so it was a wonderful learning curve as a human being, noting that she underlines that she learnt more from her children than they learnt from her.

Deeper learning of the Self.

Liz also speaks about her experience then of a profound lack of confidence. At first she thought it was post natal depression, but realised that there was a deeper layering - where she had parents that they themselves struggled and Liz shares the challenges that her mother had and the subsequent burden that Liz carried as a result of their relationship and she was not able to really be there for how Liz wanted - a mother to-be.

To this end Liz learnt to become very adept at putting up a front - and ironically ending up on television - very capable on the outside - she was seen as always happy when she was a young lawyer yet struggled with health related problems that resulted in a deep lack of confidence - yet she was able to portray the opposite in the world, by looking and acting happy.

With bringing up her children and marrying the inner Liz to the outer Liz and then understanding what has shaped her and in decoding what is it she is here to be and do - who is the Liz? How does she integrate her desire to serve in the world with being a whole authentic human being and realising and reconciling that both her parents did their very best to bring her up as best as they could. And Liz goes into this in expressing her humility - realising that we can let go of things that do not serve us and that are not real - and we can become the people we probably were put on this earth to be - but often through painful experience.

A difficult marriage was another part of her learning and she states sincerely how grateful she is in many ways - though she laughingly says she is not fully reconciled with that yet:). Because like her childhood experiences with her mother - it dug up all the things that she did not want to look at - and what she couldn't escape … So she says to her kids as well - that life - like the Buddha says is about suffering - so you accept the suffering - but Liz then brightens saying that this life is like a gorgeous mysterious university course that we did not even know we had signed up for!

That the lessons will keep coming back and back - the same lesson often until we have the inner resilience, the inner fortitude - and the willingness to look at what that lesson brings us. Thus we learn and we grow and we can then graduate to another class. Which she laughingly says - has been like the last 10 years …

Covering myths and legends and Joseph Campbell and our journey of traveling deep dark valleys - and the struggle to get through the day, like just getting by by crawling as if in a dark place - but being a mum and committed to her children there is no recourse other than to hang in with her kiddies as she was so committed as a mother and a parent.

A Near Death Experience and a Greater Understanding.

Then Liz tells of a broken heart moment in hospital when she nearly died as doctors worked diligently on her heart and she witnessed this by 'looking down on everything from the ceiling - (this could be said to be an out of the body experience or a near death experience) - she said for a moment she felt that she was floating on the softest warmest, most loving golden clouds and realising that she could stay there, this was wonderful - I can give up - this is easy - and at that moment both her beautiful children were right at the forefront and the feeling was so powerful - 'I can't leave them, they still need me' - and that the urge for life was so much greater than the urge to run away from the pain of life - and she came back to her body - to recuperate and heal.

Then the discussion covered 'the purpose for existence - is to find out the purpose for existence' - and Liz was emphatic it was certainly not about power or money or status - the house we own or the cars we drive … that those things are so deeply ephemeral and so transient and for many it is a frightening place because so many people fear death.

What Liz says that experience taught her that she had nothing whatsoever to fear.

The interview then covers names like Ramana Maharshi and Gangaji to the Dalai Lama.

Questioning Material Values

Liz surmises - why do we in the Western developed world set about to amass so much material wealth, houses, bach's, numbers of cars, boats clothes etc. If we didn't fear death would we just get on and experience life instead?

What she feels is that material wealth means nothing other than what she can leave in the hearts of those that she loves. And her greatest achievement is loving her children with all her heart. Listen to this as Liz expresses herself so deeply, in such a warm and humble way.

That for children to open like the lotus flower and being the humans they can be - and this is what she feels needs to be extended across the community of NZ.

This interview also covers an experience Liz had in Sydney when she was at a function of the media magnates the Murdoch's where she witnessed these very successful media barons and realised that with all their collective expertise and media and satellite outreach that if only they wanted to bring whole countries together and have communities connect and share in a better tomorrow - these people could basically create a large shift in changing the world into a more peaceful and harmonious place. However in her intuitions of seeing them huddled most of the night with Rupert and Lachlan, including James Packer in a corner - out of the way at this function - she realised how close yet how far away we are at pulling the threads of humanity together.

That if they only felt connected to all people - they would feel so loved and valued in the world - that wherever they went they would feel so much goodwill flowing toward them - however this is not the case.

That Liz found that she had so much compassion for them - because the elder Murdoch who owns Sky Television and the Australian newspaper and a huge slice of Australian and British newspapers and until recently virtually 75 % of all NZ suburban newspapers Once owning the Controlling Interest in Wellington's Dominion newspaper and being the 2nd largest media conglomerate on earth owning 20th Century Fox and the Wall St Journal and a huge number of media companies.

That she just intuited that their energy was not warm and light hearted and that they were basically not happy at all.

Generosity of Spirit

This conversation then continues around generosity of spirit of giving and bringing a little joy to people who are experiencing unhappy lives - especially on the streets here in Auckland where the homeless are seen in greater numbers even though the NZ Government is crowing about our $4 billion surplus for the last year.

Then Liz tells that when back in Australia of giving her last $2-00 to a homeless person when she found that she was unable to withdraw any cash from her account at an ATM. So being in Sydney away from NZ - taking a leap of faith giving that $2.00 minute amount away to a destitute person in the street and making them feel acknowledged and then having to go through the challenge of having to rely on the goodwill of friends to help her out over the ensuring days.

Micro Funding those less fortunate

Liz's dream is of having enough funds to set up micro finance for women, especially those women who have come out of failed marriages and have to start again to make a living - or in Africa where a death or disability throw the onus on the woman to make a living. And it has been proved over and over again when women are able to receive a loan for a chicken coop or garden seeds - that they are fastidious at paying back their loan. That they in most cases are brilliant at running their little businesses and they get the family back on their feet when they may have to learn totally new skills to find a creative way to make a living.

So with micro funding Liz wants to assist NZ woman to get back on their feet by becoming independent as in many cases they have given up their career to take on family responsibilities whilst the husband has continuously advanced his own career thus he is always skilled up. Thus there is a lot of fear and trepidation for middle aged women having to rejoin the workforce and back into the thick of things in a new job, new technologies, new expectations - new performance quotas etc

This is a difficult arena for women - look at TV in NZ there is no older women there, at the moment.Ageism is still prevalent.

Liz's talks about her work, when starting out as a young lawyer - and how she saw the reality of it. But, she found what disillusioned her was that if you have the money - you can get the best lawyer in town and they can stitch up the case by getting someone off - when in fact they were the guilty party. When she thought that Law was about justice - that the present government has made huge cuts to legal aid in NZ recently, that many Lawyers did not agree with this - even those who were innately conservative themselves.

Homelessness - how could this happen in New Zealand?!

Liz says her heart aches to see the number of homelessness we have here in NZ especially Auckland )and particularly in a year where the NZ government are 4 billion dollars in surplus - which coincides with the election coming up in less that 3 months time). That she has been going around Auckland and making videos and interviewing the homeless and hearing all their various stories.

She is mortified - as this should not be in NZ - we are basically an extraordinarily caring people - but … and she in meeting so many of these homeless people and seeing a profound dignity in many of them and the hopeless situation they are in.

A kind and caring compassionate woman …

Stand up before this election and make a fuss about homelessness.

The Dalai Lama's statements about humility and connection come up and yet there are many laughs during this interview.

Covering what Mike King is doing with youth suicide in NZ and that this too is a stain across our nation.

She tells of an experiment with rats and heroin and the environment. The end result is that after rats are put in a stark and boring environment - given the choice they all turn to heroin instead of drinking water. But, when they turn their cage into a myriad of things to do - to climb, swing, run on a wheel, snuggle into warm covered areas - they eventually all end up rejecting the heroin and instead they enjoy the variety and opportunities of a captivating environment.

Many people in a state of homelessness have been involved with drugs, but had they been in an environment that had offered them possibilities to learn and to grow and experience a more conducive atmosphere - of connection - many would not be suffering as they are today.

Possibilities of changing both our outlook and our inner state of being

This then introduces Bruce Lipton and our body of around 50 trillion cells - and his theme - change the environment for the better and the situation will change accordingly. That all our organs are working in unison and we are not doing any of this consciously. That as a top scientist / professor at Stanford University in the USA, he realised that we need not be a captive and slave to our genes. That we can by 'shifting our consciousness' evolve our genome and become far more healthier humans. Books - Biology of Belief and Conscious Evolution.

Liz see NZ as having changed dramatically in the last 9 years

She sees so many homeless and as a mother - wonders how this has continued to escalate.

Liz shares that NZ needs to become more sovereign and independent - that when David Lange of the NZ Labour Government saw that our country had a large majority wanting to be nuclear free nation this gave him the mandate to make us a Nuclear Free country. Liz feels that as a small independent nation (and we trust a moral force for good) that we be weary of US influence being too strong here and for example the lack of transparency with the Waihopai Face Eyes Echelon spy station in the South Island being cause for concern.

Regarding trade she like many here in NZ who were voiceless felt a great relief that the TPPA did not go ahead and that we need to be adept at finding innovative ways to sort out fair trade.

However there is also the challenge of transparency of Government - and this is an important issue - which is also a global issue. That we New Zealanders have to be both more alert and proactive to make our elected servants in Wellington bow to the wishes of 'we the people.'

In reiterating what she sees as issues.

1) The homeless

2) NZ becoming a GE and GMO Free organic agricultural food bowl for our world.

3) A new Transparent media outlet for open communications - TV, Radio & Digital.

This is what in a democracy media is all about, not glove puppets - John Campbell has gone - this is dangerous for democracy we dependent on a free and courageous media.

Nicky Hagar if you like him or not - he was vilified for laying out so many truths - which were all shoved aside - with no-one in Government prepared to accept the lies that the Government had hidden. This is why we need a conscious NZ public and this is why Liz has been called to act like a warrior woman, and a Mother.

There is too much at stake and too much to lose.

NZ's fisheries and marine environment are currently being mismanaged for the benefit of a few heavyweight fishing industrialists. Sound familiar?

After 30 years and repeated examples of dysfunction including reports of widespread labour abuse, fish dumping, misreporting, and monopoly institutional stagnation, the time is right to return to the basic principles of managing New Zealand's natural resources for the benefit of the nation.

With an nationwide election on the horizon we the people are having to decide how our precious marine resources are going to be managed, now that we know that the Ministry of Primary Industries refuses to listen to the People.

Scott as a spokesman for LegaSea - a public outreach that wants to go beyond the 35,000 fishing club members in 58 clubs and talk to the vast number of people who either love fishing - do a bit of fishing or get a few fish that they share with their neighbours or just like the idea of having abundant in shore coastal fisheries.

This is what they have been doing over the last 5 years communicating with fisherfolk. They also encourage people to make contributions so as to share the load as they look towards taking care of NZ's spectacular marine environment so that everyone can both enjoy and fish from.

The challenge is to engage with complex NZ Governmental Ministry led management, processes. Especially the world's leading internationally acclaimed 'quota management system' - which most recreational fishermen will know is far from the truth. Most in the know realise it is a farce. Listen to this interview. plus Previous interview with Scott.

LegaSea's database has 45,000 subscribers and growing as fisherfolk realise that recreational fishing are being squeezed out by the NZ's National Government's Ministry of Primary Industries - lock stepped with industrial fishing.

Scott tells of working in cooperation with the NZ Sport Fishing Council and having to take the Minister and Ministry of Primary Industries (the Government) to the High Court, the Appeal Court and then the Supreme Court in the 2005, 6, 7, 8, and 9 journey, where certain Governmental and Ministry activities were regarded as illegal and poorly conceived management practices for the plentiful kahawai the ubiquitous peoples fish where the Law came out on the side of the righteous and not the Government - thank you Justice Reese Harrison and thank you Chief Justice Sian Elias for the superb judgements that full costs were awarded in the NZ Sports Fishing Council's favour. Note neither of the above two Governmental parties appealed!

Sadly Sanford's and Sealord's the big two industrial fishing Corporations - because they are very well financed did what they continue to do, but what came out of this, is this:

The Supreme Court ruled that 'the Minister' shall allow for public interests and recreational interests - and may set the total allowable commercial catch at zero! - if he or she is reasonable.

(Question: What type of Government is it, that 'the people' have to take their own elected servants to the Highest Court of the Land to get them to come to heal? )

LegaSea are wanting to:

Establish a Royal Commission of Inquiry

Objectives:

1. Examine fisheries management and policy settings to better understand.
2. 1. Why there is insufficient abundance of fisheries inshore to satisfy public interests in fishing and conservation.
   2. What management and policy changes are required to enable decision makers to act in a more precautionary manner.
   1. Blockages to restoring inshore fish stocks to abundant levels.
   2. Structures that perpetuate monopolistic behaviour by quota shareholders.
   3. Barriers to innovation in fishing methods and technology.
3. Review the Quota Management System to identify –

We need to redefine the purpose of fisheries development and establish institutions and instruments that achieve the environmental, economic, social, and cultural benefits due to all New Zealanders from the use of our natural marine resources.

Nothing less than a Royal Commission!

To allow Recreational Fishers to have restored public confidence in the management of our inshore fisheries.

(Tim countered - with the importance of a 'neutral selection process' for this Royal Commission - that they select the appropriate prospect - not jobs for the boys - like retired 'well connected' business people or politicians who have been put out to pasture. Because these 'commissioners' would be, taking home $1500 a day to sit and mull over what decisions to take, that will not necessarily be in the fishing industry's interests).

It was ventured and stated that it was fair to say that the incumbent National Government of today is very closely aligned with the commercial sector - and a Royal Commission of Enquiry - to get this momentum over the line - against the run of play - is a must! - full stop! -

Citizens Initiated Referendum

LegaSea are giving serious consideration to initiating a Citizens Initiated Referendum - which in 18 months could give us an answer - an unbinding one - but it would let NZ know what the general consensus is regarding our ocean taonga. (treasure).

Recently the CEO of Seafood NZ a representative organisation of all sectors wrote in an update:

"That the proportion of New Zealanders who felt the industry's reputation has deteriorated compared to the 12 months earlier increased from 10% in 2015 to 17% in 2016.

Those deteriorating public perceptions put us in a dangerous position the lead-up to a critical general election with a resurgent Opposition aligned with environmentalists that may be unsympathetic to fishing.

We have already seen Government policies out of left field around marine protected areas that impact on fishing space.

The best way to keep the politicians out of our industry and secure our property and customary rights is to enhance our social licence. If the public are reassured that we are good people doing good things for the benefit of all New Zealanders, the political parties will see no reward in challenging that.

To that end, work is well advanced on a communications campaign aimed at influencing public opinion.

It will go public in July, based on prime time television promise to protect our precious ocean resources."

The above is the way the Fishing Industry is going to soften you up, the unsuspecting NZ public.

1. Allocation Principle to Guide Decisions

The other urgent reform is a new Allocation Principle to be added the Fisheries Act. This Principle would guide Ministerial allocation decisions and be based on a commitment made by Labour Minister Colin Moyle, Minister of Fisheries, in 1989. This commitment is commonly referred to as Moyle's Promise –

"Where a species of fish is not sufficiently abundant to support both commercial and non-commercial fishing, preference will be given to non-commercial fishing.

This position reflects Government's resolve to ensure all New Zealanders can enjoy and benefit from our fisheries."

This Allocation Principle needs to be added to section 10 of the Fisheries Act 1996 to achieve the following outcomes:

1. Encourage fisheries to be managed at higher, safer levels.
2. Demonstrate a clear disincentive and consequence to commercial overfishing and depletion.
3. Guide Ministerial decisions so a more precautionary approach can be taken.

Bottom Line

The bottom line is that commercial fisheries are wanting more fish. And the recreational fisher folk are basically getting in the way.

Scott states emphatically that:

The inshore zone needs respite care. Benthic (seabed) diversity and abundance needs restoring, and the priority needs to be to remove all industrial methods.

A century of ever-expanding use of heavy, bottom contact mobile gear has changed the seafloor from a thriving benthic community of organisms to a desert of fine silt. This silt is resuspended and distributed further each time mobile, industrial fishing gear is towed across the sea floor.

The Government needs to: Remove industrial fishing methods such as the appalling trawling, Danish seining and dredging, from the inshore zone. LISTEN TO SCOTT Tell it as it is.

$1.8 billion for export fish receipts = 300,000 tonnes caught.

Recreational fishers take approximately 10,000 tonnes = 10,000, thousand kilos = 10 million kilos of fish.

With NZ public participation of around 600,000 Kiwis who participate are spending approximately one thousand million dollars of which $130 million dollars is GST plus another $35 million dollars of PAYE from the 8,000 plus jobs that are generated by recreational fishing - that compares to the 20,000 jobs in the commercial sector - remember they are catching 94% of the fish taken each year.

Scott tongue in cheek states that when it is all financially sorted we the recreational fisher is paying about $20 per kilo of fish caught and then we give it away, we share with friends and neighbours. Saying there is a deep need to express 'manaakitanga' - the generosity of giving and sharing …

Bottom Trawling Needs to be Outlawed

Scott then tells of how the bottom trawlers drag across the seafloor surface destroying any possible semblance of an aquatic garden where fish live, and survive - turning it into a desolate area of total destruction that has never seen such devastation for possibly millions of years … mega millions of tiny little organisms and layer upon layer of sea creatures getting larger as the food chain increases up to the upper level fish.

The swath that is left, just wipes everything out into a desert of swirling silt and mud with visibility zeroed out and the surviving fish and other organisms somehow have to start all over again within a destroyed underwater sea garden. Knocking out huge numbers of ecological sensitive organisms whilst those in the trawler above have no idea whatsoever - of the holocaust they are causing down below.

Listen to Scott describe what is really happening. The Indiscriminate uncaring harvesting and when the net gets brought up on the deck - any fish not in the 'quota' are dumped over the side - in most cases already dead to float and rot and eventually sink.

Trevally are very NZ fishy story

Trevally, 800 tonnes of trevally are being exported year after year, after year - whole - frozen - no added value, no GST - full container loads to Saudi Arabia, France and the United Kingdom - at what price? We here in NZ are paying around $12-00 a kilo but overseas we are giving it away at $2.70 cents and that's a peak price. Where as trevally is one of the best fish on earth to eat as sushi. Japanese people living in NZ cannot believe their good fortune here.

Kahawai are being exported after being trawled up by the industrial Danish seiner fleets here in NZ. To be sold less than $5-00 a kilo is an insult - but is being sold for $1.70 to the Africans - the Cameroon and the Côte d'Ivoire, (the Ivory Coast).

This is not acceptable - if we cannot get more than $5-00 a kilo - leave it in the sea so that is can reproduce and double its size over a few years.

Crayfish (kura) are now in crisis - they are disappearing and depleting … along the East Coast North of Whangarei down to East Cape covering hundreds of kilometres.

The word depletion came up in tandem with 'Sustainable' as Scott sees that sustainable fisheries is not concerned about the sustainability of fish stock and the marine ecology - only that the fishing industry can sustain itself - whatever the costs.

Listen to Scot tell it as it is. Explaining the giant lie that is the 'Quota Management System. (like clean green NZ) He calls it sustainable depletion and is the Government's name of the game.

This commercial fishing juggernaut in their submissions are consistently saying 'more, more, more, more While the non commercial fishers position - are consistently prepared to say less, less, less, less and we are willing to come to the table … and talk about how they can constrain ourselves and shift our attitudes, expectations and behaviour to generate a rebuild and have abundance … Yet, there is only one side willing to come to the table!

To get involved with Legasea

Send: [email protected] an email or 021 macindoe = 622463 and have a Chat and get in touch with reliable, professional courteous - 'Less is more' - regular updates.

NOTE:

We now have the NZ Government asking the Department of Primary Industries to double NZ's export of fish by 2025 (same for Dairy exports). This is not taking into account at all the ecology and the environment that produces this abundance.

Amend the Fisheries Act

It is imperative to amend the Fisheries Act to remove the maximum sustainable yield.

The attitude of bulk harvesting and freezing and marketing in containers is pure idiocy - there is no respect of nature's process, for the fish population or nature itself. Everything is up for grabs. = Neoliberal Economics - winner takes all.

Home Support

Legacy now has over 400 business and affiliate organisations here in NZ supporting them and the NZ Sport Fishing Council because they know if there is no inshore fish to catch they will suffer …

ITM all 100 outlets are behind Legasea - Hunting & Fishing - Yamaha & Honda & Shimano and Rod And Reel - Burns Co

FreeFishheads.co.nz - this is big! 20,000 people have there name down for a free feed. Scott thanked Matt Watson for making it happen. Go on line and put your name down - this way you can feed you family after a quick road trip to a beach near you and pick up some free fish heads and frames.

Check Papatuanuku kokiri marae in Mangere who have collected 6,000 kilograms of heads, frames and offal and taken it and 'tidied it up' and this rangitara kai has been given to needy appreciative people - the offal buried in their gardens.

This is a very social and community oriented project that is successful

Check out www.fishcare.org - for best practice - how to handle a fish how to best utilise such fish

0800 legacy

www.legasea.co.nz

When you are truth teller and are prepared to break with convention to get your message out at great personal sacrifice - spare a thought for the continuous courage of Scott Macindoe. This was as usual a very powerful and potent interview that will never get to MSM (Main Stream Media) as you will now know they are basically only aligned with the 'commercial sector' - as in the US and elsewhere.

http://www.ourplanet.org/greenplanetfm/scott-macindoe-are-we-about-to-see-the-end-of-recreational-fishing-in-new-zealand

To those reading this semi transcription, I apologise - Doing the interview and recording, editing and transcription is a labour of love - it's all voluntary - so if it seems a little wordy and convoluted - please know that everything you have seen and listened to here has been done in the spirit of goodwill and the best of intentions. Naku noa Tim

We must demand rigorous ongoing and independent testing as to the effect of aerial 1080 drops on New Zealand's wilderness, fauna and ecosystems. Clyde and brother Steve have won International Awards for their 1080 NZ documentary, Poisoning Paradise

The movie Poisoning Paradise is about the aerial dispersal of 1080 throughout New Zealand in order to kill rodents, mustelids and possums. This poisoning now has become a highly controversial topic with conservationists, environmentalists, and members of the public.

Clyde Graf and Steve were sons of Egon, a professional deer hunter, based in NZ's Te Urewera National Park.

In 1996, youngest son Steve went to Canada and videoed amazing wildlife footage. Returning to NZ he teamed up with his brother Clyde, and together they began to make The Graf Boys' videos.

Since then, The Graf Boys have produced six hunting and outdoors DVD titles, and two documentaries. Their documentary, Poisoning Paradise, has won four international awards (England, Ireland, Japan, and Culture Unplugged online festival).

See their YouTube Channel The Graf Boys.

What is 1080?

Sodium fluoroacetate, known in pesticide form as 1080, is the organofluorine chemical compound with the formula FCH₂CO₂Na. This colourless salt has a taste similar to that of sodium chloride and is used as a metabolic poison.

1080 is extremely toxic to all air-breathing organisms. It blocks the body's muscle and organ's ability to absorb energy from its food, and results in a slow and inhumane death, typically 8 -24 hours for birds, 2-4 days for large mammals. There is no known antidote for this deadly poison.

Not only is 1080 highly toxic to mammals, birds and insects- one scientist has even discovered that it is toxic to plants and so forests do not do so well after 1080 drops.

Controversy

The latter may be controversial, but in general 1080 and its effects on animals through primary and secondary poisoning, and on humans through water supplies, is not well researched, especially considering the huge amount of 1080 poison tipped from helicopters over our forests. If there are any unanswered questions about its use and the results, then more research must be undertaken, not only by DoC (Department of Conservation) but by independent scientists, preferably from overseas, to avoid any collusion.

In this interview Clyde gives important information on the New Zealand government's financial interest in 1080. New Zealand uses 80% of all 1080 used in the world. In fact it is banned in most countries overseas.

19 different native bird species have had corpses test positive for 1080 after aerial 1080 operations, however, it is known that the small sample size, and the lack of a control group needs highlighting. There is a need for long term population monitoring. These concerns are completely absent in DoC summaries.

Bird Deaths

Birds reported killed by 1080 poisoned cereal baits include morepork, weka, tomtits and grey warbler, and fauna known to eat cereal bait include kea, kaka, little spotted kiwi, kokako, saddleback, kakariki, pukeko, insects, koura and lizards.

The number of possums in New Zealand was estimated at 47.6 million in the mid 1980's. When possum control is taken into account, the number of possums has reduced to an estimated 30 million as of 2008/9. This is not a very large reduction when considering both the environmental and the financial cost of the large scale poisoning operations.

In a Landcare Research document 2009 it states

"Control of possums alone may not always have net benefits for native biodiversity because, for example, of the increase in rodent numbers, and hence predation on native animals, that can occur when possum numbers are reduced (Ruscoe et al. 2008)."

This is important because once the ecosystem is no longer managing itself and is interfered with by humans, it no longer functions so effectively. "It takes one year for rat populations to come back to pre-poisoning levels. By the second year rat numbers were higher than before the operation", Dr Ruscoe from Landcare said. Scientists warn that this paves the way to rat plagues.

Poisoning from 1080 occurs through eating the dosed baits (cereal pellets) or from the flesh of poisoned animals. Carcasses remain poisonous until they are completely decomposed, which makes 1080 particularly lethal to dogs.

Dog Deaths

The Life Style Block (LSB) website states regarding dogs and 1080:

"Dog owners should take particular care near areas where 1080 poison has been used as dogs are extremely susceptible to the poison.

There is no antidote and it causes every appearance of extreme distress in dogs, and the signs can last for hours before the dog dies. It's very distressing!

Poisoned carcases can remain poisonous to scavenging dogs for many months if they have been preserved in very dry conditions."

Death from 1080 poisoning typically involves nausea, vomiting, convulsions, pain and foaming of the mouth, and can take anywhere from 1-72 hrs, depending on the species and the dose. From an animal rights perspective, we should not be allowing such an extremely painful death. Possums stoats and rats are not the only animals to die this way. Other wild and domestic animals become unintended kill, and it persists through the food chain.

Animal rights organisation SAFE has concerns over 1080 use and calls it a "cruel and indiscriminate poison".

Do we as humans really have the right to kill sentient beings in such a gruelling manner?

Drinking Water?

Clyde is now involved in a new web site http://www.watersourcenz.org/ which will become live shortly ( if it isn't already). On the home page it asks the question, "Do you drink bottled water sourced from New Zealand forests?" The question is relevant not only about bottled water but about water coming to us from such places as the Hunua dam in Auckland, which is fed from streams that have been in 1080 drop areas. Can we trust the DOC and health board information we are given when we know that government has financial conflicts of interest? Listen to the interview for more on this.

In 2010, Scientists Pat and Quinn Whiting-OKeefe presented to Taupo District Council on 1080. They included the following information:

"First, there is not a single scientifically credible study showing that aerial 1080 when used on the mainland is of net benefit to any species of New Zealand's native fauna. Thus the upside for native species is entirely unproven, despite 15 years of increasingly desperate attempts by DoC to show one.

Second, there is overwhelming evidence from DoC's own research that aerial 1080 is killing large numbers of native animals, including birds, insects and other invertebrates. Moreover most native species remain entirely unstudied. Thus there is plenty of proven downside for native species.

Third, there is not a single ecosystem level study. That is, we don't have the slightest idea of unintended consequences and secondary negative effects of which ecological science assures us there are many.

Fourth, while it is probable that possums, if unchecked, would in time cause some shift of tree species in our forests, the degree of that shift is not great and fear of canopy collapse is wholly unwarranted.

Fifth, DoC's 1080 research is generally of poor scientific quality, is biased in favour of DoC's agenda, and DoC chronically and systematically misrepresents what their own scientific research actually shows.

Sixth, regarding bovine tuberculosis (TB), AHB's own research shows that there is a clear alternative: ground-based baiting with species-specific bait stations. Plus possums as a vector for bovine TB can be controlled by trapping or ground-based baiting solely at the forest pasture margins to a depth of 3-4 km."

Clyde points out that New Zealand is classed as being free from TB, and that only 50 possums have ever been found to have been infected with TB.

The Whiting-O'Keefe's two retired PhD scientists from the USA were interviewed about the problems of 1080 by GreenplanetFM.com - in 2010.

Alternative Strategy

In an article in The Otago Daily Times, rheumatology professor and keen tramper Fiona McQueen gives a solution to New Zealand's pests, after being shocked at what was seen in Fiordland.

"An alternative strategy would be to incentivise possum trapping, boosting the fur industry and relieving unemployment in areas such as the West Coast. This could be achieved without the grim reality of ''by-kill'' and allow our international ''clean and green'' image to regain some credibility."

This interview with Clyde Graf was sponsored by The Awareness Party

I start this telephone interview mentioning Waihopai the Secret US controlled Five Eyes - Echelon spy station as it only a few kilometres from Blenheim where Steffan lives in the South Island. Steffan held the Security and Intelligence portfolio for the Green Party for many years. Thus we both concur that there is a very good chance that our telephone interview was being recorded - as that is the nature of the beast.

Stephen Browning - Retiring NZ Green Party - Member of Parliament.

This is one of the more important interviews of the last year. I urge you to listen and or download and listen at will. (Tim)

This interview exemplifies Steffan's courage at talking truth to power as he exposes the sham of what neoliberal agricultural policies are doing to NZ, but he also speaks of some very good grass roots initiatives happening right across our country.

Steffan's days as an MP are engaged and occupied.

Meeting with meat inspectors - beekeepers as well as the incursions of disease through our biosecurity such as myrtle rust - he says there is always something to do with regard to protecting our environment -

Also, that as NZ is a primary producer of food being isolated from the rest of the world, away from many global diseases that the imperative for us is to have an alert and well funded bio security system. This has not been happening - especially over the previous years of the National Government administration. where today we are battling to deal with numerous incursions - due to these Governmental funding cuts. Though very recently there has been a little more funding - especially to respond to myrtle rust for example. He notes that the focussed staff at biosecurity are overworked and whilst there has been a 70% increase in foot traffic coming through airports and ports, there is not really a commensurate increase in funding.

Myrtle rust is now a growing problem - and yet we still have no national plant control forbidding sending seedlings and plant material anywhere within NZ. At present we are now still on the back foot in dealing with these new diseases.

It being imperative that we protect our country's natural integrity and biodiversity.

However the main two projects that are resting with Stephen is around glyphosate and the Country of Origin - the Food Labelling Bill. This is a carry over from the petition of 37,000 signatures that ex Green MP Sue Kedgley initiated in 2007 - that was not able to get the 'cross party support' to make this law. Stephen has made some slight modifications to the bill she originally drafted back then and it is now moving forward.

Steffan said that even the Labour Government in 2007 we're not going to push it through - then not long after they were out of power they changed their mind (consumer pressure?) or just snatching some Green policy points?

What Steffan finds is that the political acceptance to this has changed markedly because of consumers growing concerns - especially now with the ruling National party allowing it to pass its first reading and go to a select committee. He says that as all parties voted for it - it's a very good omen - with ACT the only party voting against it. Their reason being that they want to make a stand as being 'always more right than that of National' our so called centre right - Governing Party.

He says that this Bill's further progressing - will go through some due processes - but he said it has some interesting 'support' behind it.

Saying that it should go through, but the window is closing before this general election - however - no matter who is in power - it should pass into Law shortly - so this is a major blessing for food consumers here in NZ.

Steffan mentioned that sometimes the universe does provide and that serendipity sometimes shows up …. listen for the rest of this.

He is also following up on the Food Safety Law Reform Bill within Parliament to get GE Food as well as irradiated food monitored and enforced as intended. Because it has not been! So it's a wait and see situation. Because this food component has not seen the labelling of GE or Irradiated being enforced since 2003.

Steffan asks readers and listeners that of they see a product that has on its label 'GE or Irradiated' to contact him … C/- Green Party.

It is a known that GE soy is coming into NZ - a lot of it for animal feed - some going into our bread as well as tofu. Being food for poultry and pigs. This is an ongoing story in itself and need investigating.

Salmon Fish Farming:

Presently salmon farming in the Marlborough Sounds is an increasing ecological problem. There are in some cases too many fish in too smaller confined net area and the fish are defecating to such a degree that it is laying waste to the seabed below. Plus fish are also suffering diseases as well as general production problems due to basically - unhealthy conditions. Like intensive dairy farms they have far too many fish in the one space. So the fish mongers are now wanting to expand into outer lying areas of the Marlborough Sounds where tidal flushes are better, however these are areas that they previously agreed not to go into. (They are wanting to shift the goalposts.)

Steffan notes that the industry is expansionist and every few years wants a bit more and a bit more …

50% of the world's fish are consumed from fish farms especially in Asia. However the reason that salmon is being farmed is because we have over the years abused the wild salmon industry here in NZ and extracted too many fish that it has not been able to sustain itself.

Here the King salmon farms feed on a mixture of anchovy caught off the South American coast - other fish waste and also animal waste from our freezing works and more and more vegetable protein as it's cheaper. However this feed mix changes the omega 3 and omega 6 in the makeup off the fish and it is nowhere as good as they suggest it is. Steffan recommends that we look at other South Island salmon companies further south to source more healthier fish.

He states this whole fish farming scenario has been a huge emotional and financial cost to NGO's and the Marlborough Sounds residents as a result of this particular salmon company. He says that even democracy has been compromised and that we need to be building up and restoring the wild fishery and being majorly conscious of focussing on strong sustainability, instead of saying 'it's stuffed' now let's move on to the next unsustainable practice …

Organics

In NZ organics is growing by 10 -11% a year, however we have no government champions - in that they in many ways come close to sneering at the word 'organic'. Whereas in Denmark the Government has organic targets and is very supportive of the industry, that they are going to have 14% of their food growing production organic by 2020 - and this is what we need here in NZ. Mandated targets and conscious government enthusiasm. Plus the Danes have included pesticide reduction strategies as well.

Steffan also met with Dutch officials in the Hague and they have some very good initiatives happening in the Netherlands too. As does Germany - but these countries are still using many pesticides as well! Austria is also pushing organics as a new way forward.

The NZ wine industry is working towards 20% organic wine by 2020 - Steffan states that they may not get there, because there is such a proliferation of non organic grapes being produced that is diluting (no pun intended) the sector because of their increasing numbers.

Villa Maria here in NZ, a large family owned business are doing very well in this organic sector and will be 50% organic by 2020.

The so called Sustainable Wine Growing NZ group - Steffan gives them a slap - as dragging the chain and being more words than action. Having a low bar as their target - but Steffan ever the commensurate community activist says that they have done one good thing and that is they now have 'integrated herbicide management' - so instead of automatically spraying every 2 weeks they actually monitor and see the need for spraying - before they go about doing it.

But when he recently checked, and they have been around since 2007 - that last year 70% of the whole Marlborough viticulture area - and it is huge - 70% of the surface area including just inside the gate and the headlands - not just under the vines and between the vines - was herbicided in spring as they try and get a little 1 degree or half a degree of frost protection by having bare ground warming up in the sun and that warmth would slightly emanate at night and thus reduce the frost a little more.

But the organic guys don't do that, yet they still succeed just as well. So there is an outrageous level of glyphosate being sprayed to the degree with have glyphosate resistant rye grass there because they have been spraying it so regularly. So sustainable wine growing is not what it says it is. But he says they are slowly lifting the bar and he applauds them as it is still only by voluntary means. In taking this further Steffan drops a bombshell in relation to the PR that is being pushed out and that it is profoundly unethical. Listen to the interview.

There is good organic growth in the horticulture sector and pipfruit and kiwifruit.

Dairy

Steffan talks about dairy and the huge price differential between ordinary conventional farming and intentional organic dairy farming. Fonterra's last public price for organic milk solids was around $9 per kilo whilst the non organic farmers are starting to cheer because their price has crept up to $6 again after being around $4.

But our Minister and successive Ministers (have lacked the vision and courage) to grab this opportunity and get in behind NZ farmers and make farming more profitable at the same time cleaning up the water and sequestering more Co2 out of the atmosphere. Why? Because they are so market infatuated - and market forces will rule. However in Parliament Steffan was able to get National MP Ian McKelvie

the Select Committee chairperson who was keen to look at the ONZ Organic NZ market report that Brendan Hoare prepared and it was very well supported and received at that level of Parliament.

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/ofa/pages/237/attachments/original/1460079394/OANZ_Market_Report_2016_EMBARGOED.pdf?1460079394

But even today - NZ has no government regulation around the word organic and there is nothing to stop anyone calling anything organic - So here we are 2017 and we still have no legislation - (so you can see why it's been so difficult for organics to be accepted in the public consciousness because by far the majority of our politicians have no idea of what it signifies - what so ever.

Glyphosate - Monsanto

European Parliament: Green Members of Parliament tested for glyphosate in April 2016.

48 Green Members that took part in a symbolic urine test ahead of the European Parliament vote last month to oppose the EU Commission's proposal to relicense the controversial toxic substance until 2031.

The inspiration behind what was labelled the #MEPee test was the results of a recent study in Germany which found that 99.6% of people tested were found to have glyphosate residue in their urine. According to ELISA test results from the accredited Biocheck Laboratory in Germany:

The results reveal that every MEP tested has been found to have glyphosate traces in their urine, with the average concentration being 1.73ng/ml. That level is more than 17 times the safe limit for drinking water. The lowest level found among the group was 0.17ng/ml, almost double the safe level.

Now most Greens will be drinking the best quality water, eating organic food and yet this is what is happening. What will this do to our DNA, semen and ovaries over time and future generations and in our babies and infants? Are you asking this question?

https://www.greenparty.org.uk/news/2016/05/13/green-party-meps-peed-off-with-glyphosate-test-results/

NZ Glyphosate

Steffan says that Glyphosate is made up of many other chemicals called adjuvants and thickers and spreaders and emulsifiers that go into a formula - some of these will penetrate the waxy cuticle the skin of a leaf - there are others that will make the spray spread evenly and there is a range of different compounds that go into a full formulation and come up with a brand name like 'Roundup' from Monsanto.

There are also other surfactants and formulas that are part of this concoction.

In this interview Tim mentioned that he knows of an agricultural professional in Waikato who told him that farmers wanting to clear away grass so as to sow a summer crop. So they will spray their grass with a glyphosate product and after 4 days cows and other animals are allowed to then eat this sprayed grass. In checking with this professional on 26/06/17 it was reaffirmed that some of these cows will be milked and that milk becomes a dairy production commodity - like milk, butter, cheese and milk powder. Hence Tim only sourcing organic milk products since he learnt about this a few years ago.

WeedMaster TS540 is one such product that is on the NZ market. This is what the Directions State:

After application of Weedmaster TS540 a withholding period for grazing stock is not required (except where ragwort is present). However, it is recommended that grazing or cultivating is delayed for 1 day after treatment of annual weeds or 3 days if perennial weeds are present to ensure absorption of Weedmaster TS540

There are 91 glyphosate based herbicide products registered in NZ but according to official information that Steffan has access to, it may only be about 80% of glyphosate products that are out there on the market within NZ.

IARC the International Agency for Research on Cancer says that Glyphosate was probably carcinogenic in humans. http://www.iarc.fr/en/media-centre/iarcnews/pdf/MonographVolume112.pdf or see Wiki

Check POEA in Europe it is effectively banned - as one of the adjuvants was so highly toxic in its own regard - let alone as a mixture in the formulation of glyphosate.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/monsantos-secret-formula-dangerous-chemicals-in-glyphosate-herbicide-slip-pass-eu-regulators-due-to-data-confidentiality/5403982

Also, Steffan mentions - it must not to be used as a desiccant that is sprayed on crops ahead of harvest. See above

75% of Glyphosate products in NZ have this highly banned toxic POEA adjutant in their sprays and when Steffan asked Nick Smith the Governmental Minister in charge, what herbicide sprays in NZ have it? Nick Smith replied that he cannot allow this information into the public arena - due to commercial considerations!

The EPA the NZ environmental protection authority is now an 'economic protection authority.'

Listen to how the EPA sent a retired toxicologist to do a glyphosate report and pull apart the strengths and weakness of the IARC report (and because he was retired he had no need to worry about future tenure) - who with his credentials was able to basically fob the report and give Glyphosate a free pass - by stating 'it fulfilled industry standards' or words to this effect. Steffan mentioned that the Official Information Act showed that there was some kind of collusion between big business and Government Agencies including the Ministry for Primary Industries as to having edited this report as well.

Yet Steffan stated that he knows scientists here in NZ who counter all the statements that this report uses to get glyphosate off the hook. He is calling for a thorough investigation of the EPA to the full extent of the Law.

This interview goes on to include Methyl Bromide fumigation of export logs at ports.

Steffan talks about the ongoing need for recapture of this gas instead of letting it blow away in the air stream.

This information below gives you an understanding, however due to the scope of this I Tim, as a volunteer doing this by myself am copying off the web information that I trust will give you a greater understanding.

Port's decision a win for workers and environment. From Scoop.co.nz

The Green Party is applauding the decision by the Ports of Auckland to require total recapture of the toxic gas methyl bromide at the port by the end of the 2017, and says other ports must now follow suit.

Exposure to a gas being used on an industrial scale at Port of Tauranga evidently doubles the risk of contracting motor neurone disease, new research has found.

The revelation states that methyl bromide gas to fumigate logs at the port may pose a health hazard to people in surrounding areas.

Mr Browning said the ports in Tauranga, Whangarei and Napier were "carrying the burden" of methyl bromide fumigation. Fumigators at other ports, including Wellington, recaptured the gas after use so that it could not escape into surrounding areas.

Mr Browning of the Green Party called for a new facility to be built at the port that would allow safer fumigation.

"If it's not methyl bromide it will be something else, so we need recapture," he said. "It can't go on like it is."

Methyl bromide is used to fumigate logs for export. Exposure to the gas, when it's not safely recaptured, can pose serious risks to people's health and contributes to the depletion of the ozone layer.

"We're really pleased by this decision. The Green Party has been campaigning for years alongside workers, community groups and many others to end the exposure of people to this toxic gas," said Green Party pesticide spokesperson Steffan Browning.

"Methyl bromide, if inhaled, can have long-term impacts on the brain, and increase the risk of cancers and neurological issues.

Finally this interview finishes with Steffan telling us about the Security and Intelligence Bill that was pushed through NZ's Parliament in 2013 under urgency - at the same time that Eric Holder the US Attorney General was in NZ, along with the Attorney General's of Canada, the UK and Australia along with a contingent of FBI officials - all present in NZ whilst PM John Key railroaded this Law through Parliament without the deeper context of an informed parliamentary and nation wide debate.

Watch this Eye Opening video that can also be also accessed on YouTube.

http://www.ourplanet.org/perspectives/steffan-browning-security-intelligence-loss-of-sovereignty

23/August 2013 in Parliament you said:

"I implore one of the 61 MPs who has previously supported this legislation to change at this vote and allow a full inquiry first. The Government has failed to provide a real justification for this fundamental attack on our democratic rights and freedoms, and the legislation facilitates the legal establishment of a surveillance State in New Zealand".

http://www.ourplanet.org/greenplanetfm/steffan-browning-ge-organics-biosecurity-security-intelligence

Steffan finally finishes with some of the highlights of his political career - his love for what he does in the organic world.

He is drawn to hands on projects that people are doing … closing the environmental loop and being so close to the land, with passion and love.

Meeting wonderful people and his love for his family and friends.

This is an important interview to be able to understand the courage and measure of this man. Download and listen, it shows that we as NZers have to be very alert to what is happening in this land of ours.