Guatever

[“MALAMENTE,” by Rosalía]

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[This episode was recorded during Latinx Heritage Month back in the month of October.]

This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

_This episode was recorded back in May of 2020, following the release of J Balvin’s Colores.

Link to Spotify playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2CbYfcdLARdCyol8HUMmYL?si=63tDfgxGQMif9cl647g69Q

Natalia: Hi!

Maria: Welcome to Guatever! Social distancing edition!

Natalia: So, Maria and I are currently almost 3,000 miles away. I am in the state of Michigan – sadly – and Maria is in the Dominican Republic.

Maria: We are doing this over Zoom. So, we want to acknowledge that the audio might not be the best quality.

Natalia: I'm sorry if that hurts your ears. So, today we're talking about J Balvin, who is one of the biggest Latino artists in the music industry.

Maria: Yes, we've talked about him multiple times, but not really focused on who he is as an artist.

Natalia: So, you’ve probably heard J Balvin’s name before since, like Maria mentioned, we've talked about him when we talked about “I Like It”. He also performed in the Superbowl back in February. He also headlined Coachella, Tomorrowland, and Lollapalooza. And actually performed with Beyonce at – I think it was Coachella?

Maria: Yeah.

Natalia: In 2018.

Maria: He was also given the title of artist of the decade by Spotify with Ariana Grande.

Natalia: But even though he's had like 327 nominations and winning 82 awards, a lot of people still don't know who he is. Especially, I think, in the United States because I think globally his name is a lot more recognized but here it still isn't.

Maria: Yes, definitely. I agree.

Natalia: So, who is he?

Maria: So, his full name is José Álvaro Osorio Balvin and he's from Medellin, Colombia.

Natalia: Yeah. So, he originally first started performing at urban clubs in Medellin, slowly increasing his social media following. So, he actually even went to university and studied international business. So, some of you guys probably have heard some of his songs where he goes for the stage name El Negocio, meaning the business. That's where it comes from. Because he studied international business. Just a fun fact.

Maria: So one of the reasons why J Balvin is also such a big icon is because he's one of those artists that has always tried to globalize Latin music. He's fluent in English, but he also makes a point to always make his music in Spanish because what he wants to do is to make reggaeton a globally popular genre without having to sing in English...which most Latin artists that have made it big in the US have done.

Natalia: For sure. Like, if you think about like Shakira, Enrique Iglesias, or Ricky Martin they all had to release albums in English in order to be successful. But J Balvin has acquired the success he has without really ever singing in English.

Maria: Even Pitbull! Oh, no.

Natalia: Even Pitbull.

Maria: Oh, no.

Natalia: Critics have even called J Balvin one of the greatest global contemporary songwriters and artists in any genre because of this. Because he just globalized music. Because, like, in his album Vibras he knows that his audience, a lot of them don't necessarily speak Spanish, but that they can still enjoy his music just by the vibes they get from it and how he doesn't necessarily...like...he thinks music is a global language. That language in itself doesn't need to be what deters people from listening to him.

Maria: Yes, and I think that's also why he made a point to call his album Vibras. Also, I think that if you know J Balvin it's probably because of his song “Mi Gente”. And the entire point of the song “Mi Gente” is to express that feeling that you might not know the language, but music really makes other people from other countries and like, from whatever culture you're from, really bond. And I think that's one of the messages he really tries to emphasize with his music.

Natalia: “Mi Gente”, J Balvin described it, how it was kind of a criticism against the music industry and how it discriminates against music that is all in Spanish. I think if you, like, swipe up on Spotify and read the little genius description or whatever on the song you can see it. But also the song itself is produced with a French DJ. And then the remix is with Beyonce. So, in itself, the song is already so global. Plus his global platform just made it a universal song that everyone can enjoy.

Maria: Yes. I think also the message that J Balvin tries to spread a lot of the time is that – we talked about this – but like, he really emphasizes that you shouldn't have to make that transition from your native language to another one just to fit whatever people want to hear. I think what he really strives for with his music is to have his own unique sound that anyone can enjoy, despite not being able to understand whatever he says.

Natalia: Yeah. And I think also he understands what happens when songs are translated or like the English remix. We've all heard those like English remix of Spanish songs, which are just not good. They're not good at all. They just don't work because the meaning of the song is literally lost in translation.

Maria: Yes.

Natalia: Like, it's not. It's not what the music was supposed to be like. It was supposed to be in Spanish.

Maria: Yeah, it's not like what the artist intended in the end.

Natalia: Yeah.

Maria: I agree. I mean, have you ever heard the version of “Loba” by Shakira, and then “She Wolf” by Shakira? It's not the same!

Natalia: What other song? There was another song.

Maria: We were talking about one of them one day, I think. Let me try and see.

Natalia: Was that the CNCO song?

Maria: Any CNCO song that is translated into English I hate and you know this.

Natalia: The Meghan Trainor...this is...this is diverging. This is not J Balvin, but the CNCO remix with Meghan Trainor? Trash. It's so bad. But yes.

Maria: The CNCO remix with like Little Mix…

Natalia: Also bad.

Maria: Also terrible. Nat is an avid CNCO fan. This is why we mention this.

Natalia: I do not need to be exposed like that. But I did take a train from Michigan to Chicago senior year to go to a CNCO concert. So…

Maria: But um...

Natalia: Back to J Balvin.

Maria: Yeah.

Natalia: Yeah. So J Balvin also, kind of like how we talked about at the beginning, he grew his social media presence. And he did this through YouTube back when YouTube was first starting out. And YouTube recognized this, and his fame and all his success, and they actually made it a YouTube documentary, which I really encourage everyone to watch. It's really interesting. It shows how he rose to fame and how he's actually a pretty humble guy.

Maria: Yeah.

Natalia: Which is really interesting.

Maria: Oh, and also he has a podcast that Nat introduced me to, and in that podcast, and also I think he makes a point out of it also in his YouTube documentary, he talks a lot about how he feels like J Balvin is this like presence? What would you kind of phrase that Nat? Like a...?

Natalia: Like a...it’s a character.

Maria: Yeah, that he uses and it's not NOT him. But in the end, the person – like, HIMSELF – is José.

Natalia: And that it’s not the same. Yeah, he kind of explained that like him José is not the same person that everyone sees perform live, that everyone sees in his music videos, or singing a song. That's J Balvin. That's a different person. And yeah, they might have both originated at the same place, but now they're very different people. Also, what was really interesting about the podcast is he talked a lot about mental health, which is not talked about in Latino communities.

Maria: No.

Natalia: It is not talked about.

Maria: It is a very taboo topic.

Natalia: And him with his really big platform talking about that. It's really interesting for like...I don't know, I personally really liked someone of the Latino community to really put that forward and talk about that.

Maria: Yeah, I totally agree. Also, we can't talk about J Balvin without talking about fashion, because he is a fashion icon.

Natalia: Yes. So he actually had a like, what was it? Like a collab with Guess?

Maria: Yeah.

Natalia: And I remember going into an Urban Outfitters with my friend and she was like, “Oh, this shirt is really cool.” And then I would look at it and I was like, “Oh, this is part of J Balvin’s collection!” And she's like, “What?” Because she didn't know who J Balvin was. But, it's just like, really cool to see him be able to influence and really have the global presence also in fashion. Like he's just a global person.

Maria: Yeah. Like there's this video of him going to the Dior men's fashion show. He also goes to a lot of fashion week's and like, just seeing the outfits that he pulls are amazing. Something that I really commend him for all the time is that he uses everything. Like everything as an accessory. He uses his hair as an accessory. First of all…

Natalia: He bleaches that.

Maria: Yeah.

Natalia: He bleaches that.

Maria: He constantly bleaches his hair and I am concerned for his scalp. Like, that man. His album Colores is all about colors and so he has dyed his hair for every performance of each color, the color for the song. And, bro, how's your hair holding up? Like, for real. I gotta know. What does his hair stylist think? I am concerned.

Natalia: I feel like it’s not even his hairstylist, it should just be like a doctor. Or like a dermatologist who's just like, “So, your scalp…”

Maria: Also, I think what makes him such a standout guy in fashion for me is just how he uses color. And even if you check out the Jordans he came out with as a collab with Nike, they're so colorful. They're just explosive with color. And he dyed his hair to match the Jordans! I mean...

Natalia: I think also...it’s almost childish, like, how much color he uses.

Maria: Yeah.

Natalia: But it's not at the same time. It just works really well.

Maria: Yeah, and like his creative choices I honestly admire a lot.

Natalia: Also, his style is kind of..it’s more like an urban...not even urban, but like...I don't know how to describe it. Like a very reggaetonero...old, Latino reggaeton style. That's like what his style is. He didn't lose that after rising to fame. He kind of held on to that. And that's what makes it so unique.

Maria: But also, definitely has improved. Have you seen him in “Ginza”? And like everything else, like from before…

Natalia: Yeah, he’s also evolved.

Maria: He’s evolved. But yes.

Natalia: He’s evolved to our global king.

Maria: Yes. I mean, at least he didn’t wear the aluminum foil outfit Bad Bunny wore at the Super Bowl…

Natalia: Do not come for Bad Bunny like that. Do not. Do not. I have no words. So yes, that was our take on the global phenomenon that is J Balvin.

Maria: Yes.

Natalia: Also, side note, we just want to give a big shoutout to our editors, Prabhav and Sofia.

Maria: They are really great. They have also let us do this podcast, so…

Natalia: Shoutout to them!

Maria: Yes.

Natalia: Also, shoutout to everyone who's listened and the hundreds of streams we've gotten on all our podcasts.

Maria: Yes, thank you to everyone who’s listened to it. We appreciate you so much.

Natalia: Thank you.

Maria: Yes. And so with that…

Natalia: This has been Natalia Camino.

Maria: And Maria Caamaño.

Natalia: For NBN.

Maria: Audio.

[“Reggaeton,” by J Balvin]

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Spotify playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1VR1sJMtl8e9ph14hET7EA

[“Hablamos Mañana,” by Bad Bunny]

Maria: So now we're going to kind of touch on his music because he came out with the new album. Nat and I literally waited until midnight to hear it, but I also think we're not the only ones.

Natalia: No.

Maria: Everyone did. Everyone was waiting. Also, he released an album for the first time in 16 months yet, X100PRE stays relevant. I still listen to X100PRE every day.

Natalia: X100PRE came out on Nochebuena. So in Latin America, Nochebuena is the day before Christmas and that’s celebrated more than Christmas Day.

Maria: Yeah, the night of the 24th of December.

Natalia: So what did I do? So I was in Mexico, but I was with all my cousins. I have a lot of cousins and they're like kinda running all over the place. So I locked myself in like a room. Plug my headphones in, listen to it, walked out, and was like wow. Merry Christmas. Best Christmas present I've received. Getting back to his new album.

Maria: Yeah. Let’s get back into Yo Hago Lo Que Me Da La Gana. We kind of like decided that we're gonna touch on our personal favorites and then also the songs we think are going to be the biggest hits.

Natalia: So this album is completely Latino. Unlike the last album where Bad Bunny had a song with Drake, this one features collabs with only Latin artists, but from all over Latin America. With Duki from Argentina, Pablo Chill-E from Chile, Sech from Panamá, and Daddy Yankee, who is an overall reggaeton icon. He sings Gasolina, which you've probably all heard.

Maria: And he was also the inspiration for Bad Bunny to become an artist.

Natalia: Bad Bunny is living his dream.

Maria: So we're going to kind of like alternate and talk about our favorites.

Natalia: So the first song in the album is “Si Veo a Tu Mamá”, which is like at the very beginning. The beat is very catchy. But some of you might have recognized it because he sampled a song called “The Girl From Ipanema”. And so that's why it might sound very familiar and I think it's so cool that he did that. It kind of shows how he can modernize it. And then also the lyrics. When he says, “Solo comparto memes, ya no escribo nada. Y no he borra’o tu foto, solo la puse en privada.” So that translates essentially to “Now I only share memes, I don't write anything anymore. I didn't delete your photo. I only put it on private”. And I think that really speaks to our generation.

Maria: Yeah.

Natalia: Because... Yeah, so the song is more melancholy and kind of sad...

Maria: But it's also really happy. It's the one thing I’ll point out.

Natalia: Which is very ironic. And it's great. Musically, great song.

Maria: Yes. Okay. One of my favorites is “La Santa”, which is Daddy Yankee and Bad Bunny’s collaboration on this album. I actually didn't think I’d like it as much, but the more I listened to the album, the more it stood out to me. I think more because lyrically I kind of really liked it. Like I saw this TikTok...

Natalia: Oh no.

Maria: About like this guy who was talking about how like Bad Bunny’s album is kind of like phases of a breakup.

Natalia: Yes, I saw that TikTok.

Maria: Yeah. And so like, I don't know. I feel like this is like one that's particularly like when you start realizing that you're catching feelings for someone but you're in denial. And I think it perfectly captures that feeling.

Natalia: So, kind of going off of that. So, Bad Bunny...he kind of tells a story that's not – it's not chronological – but he tells a story throughout his album. So the next song I really like is “Pero Ya No”.

Maria: Oh, yeah.

Natalia: This is one of the lines. He says, “A mí ya no me cachas, yo no soy un Pokémon”. (Translation: You can’t catch me anymore, I’m not a Pokemon.) And I just think that's so funny. Yeah. And it's kind of like at the end of the breakup when you finally move on, and it slowly turns more and more upbeat kind of to symbolize the moving on and freeing yourself from a relationship. Which I think is really artistic.

Maria: So another one of my favorites is “Yo Perreo Sola”.

Natalia: This is gonna be the hit.

Maria: This is gonna be a hit.

Natalia: It is a hit already.

Maria: Like it's so good. I love this because this song really is like that...

Natalia: This is like Beyonce’s “Single Ladies” but like in 2020.

Maria: But also, this is the type of stuff Benito does where like he's a male but he's perfectly...

Natalia: Supporting female empowerment.

Maria: Yes.

Natalia: But also, something Bad Bunny does a lot is he mentions some of his earlier songs.

Maria: Yeah.

Natalia: So like in this he says, “Ella está soltera antes que se pusiera de moda,” which means she was single before it was in style. This is to reference his song “Soltera” with Lunay.

Maria: and Daddy Yankee.

Natalia: But yes, that’s “Yo Perreo Sola”. And then just a side note, Maria and I have formed these opinions after listening to the album constantly for like, three days so our opinions will probably change by like the end of the week.

Maria: Yeah.

Natalia: Because that's just the type of people we are. When I first listened to this, I was like “Safaera” is definitely gonna be a hit. It's gonna be the big one. But I will say that one part in “Safaera” where he plays the jaws theme song. And I just think that's so funny. He’s so creative with his music.

Maria: The thing with “Safaera” that makes “Safaera” unique is that he sampled so many songs into one song and it works. Like…

Natalia: Yes.

Maria: How?

Natalia: So, moving on. There’s this one song we both really, really like. I think “25/8” or 25/8 has some of the best lyrics of the entire album.

Maria: It really does.

Natalia: My favorite one is “No e’ que sea antisocial, e’ que ustede’ dan mala vibra” (Translation: It’s not that I’m antisocial, it’s just that you guys give off a bad vibe). Which I personally relate to because when I don't like someone or like don't like a certain group of people, I will literally just shut off and not talk.

Maria: Mm-hmm.

Natalia: Like sometimes people think I'm quiet or shy. But no, that probably just means I don't like you. My friends know I talk a lot. Do I talk a lot?

Maria: I don't think so…

Natalia: Okay, well, I talk.

Maria: Yes.

Natalia: So like, yeah, if you see me and like I'm in a group setting with you and I don't talk, or like ignore you…

Maria: Now you know!

Natalia: Now you know, sorry, I just like exposed myself out there.

Maria: I genuinely I love “25/8”. It's one of my favorite songs. And I like the lyric that goes, “Nunca seguidor, yo siempre he sido un líder” (Translation: Never a follower, I’ve always been a leader). Because Benito, –I told this to Nat – I genuinely don't like artists who try to flaunt like they're the best. But Benito has all my respect and he can do that.

Natalia: He has the right to.

Maria: He has the right to.

Natalia: In this song he calls out like the hourly wage in Puerto Rico, which is $7.25, and he's like, this is not a liveable wage. And so I think this song really personifies and embodies all of Bad Bunny, like all he stands for, what he's accomplished, where he's going…. I think this is one of his best works.

Maria: I agree. Like, this song is the song that to me stands out lyrically in the album.

Natalia: And then we kind of already touched on “P FKN R”. This kind of ties back to “25/8”. He again calls out the government to like do something. And I think this ties also into his song “Ser Bichote” in X100PRE. So a bichote is someone in a barrio or in a neighborhood, who is a drug trafficker. But he is loved in that community because he brings money into the community and distributes it. Essentially, like a Robin Hood type of figure. And so he compares himself to that, but with music. And he does the same thing in “P FKN R”. He makes a lot of metaphors with him, music, and drugs, which I think is very impactful since Latin America is many times associated with drugs.

Maria: So okay, these past few days after the album came out the only thing I hear whenever the dorm is silent is Nat going “Meow, meow, meow, meow, meow”. I don't know why meow?

Natalia: I can't sing so I have to use other vocal-like…vocal-like...things.

Maria: So she's imitating this part of the song where it goes “Pr pr pr pr pr”.

Natalia: Which I think is really funny PR like when you make the sounds together I mean, sound and I just think that's so funny. So the next song on the album is “Hablamos Mañana”, which is so good. This is like where he starts out with, he goes and he says, “Yo hago lo que me da la gana” which is the name of the album obviously. He mentions it throughout the entire album, but this one's so good. He's like I do what I want. At the end it kind of goes into this heavy metal type of thing. So Bad Bunny is also very much influenced by pop-punk, like Blink-182. And Maria's laughing because she knows that I went – I skimmed the surface of an emo phase in middle school.

Maria: You say it with such shame.

Natalia: It was a dark time in my past. So this was just giving me flashbacks.

Maria: Yeah, Nat loves this song. I personally...I still like it. I just don't think that it's like... I understand why he’s kind of closing off the album with the title of the album. So I get it.

Natalia: It also gives me a lot of like early 2000s Latin Pop Music vibes.

Maria: Yeah.

Natalia: Also, Bad Bunny is so flexible in genre and voice.

Maria: Yeah.

Natalia: So there's a lot, before we get to the last song on the album, he has so many other songs that are not in his two albums – which you should definitely listen to. But like “Chambea” versus “Cual Es Tu Plan”.

Maria: Yeah.

Natalia: The sounds are completely different.

Maria: He said in an interview once that he knows that his audience will literally – he could like do rock. People will listen to it. He can do reggaeton. People will listen to it. He could do whatever genre he wants.

Natalia: Okay, “Cual Es Tu Plan” isn't even a genre. It sounds like elevator music with a reggaeton slow backbeat and it's so good.

Maria: “Cual Es Tu Plan” is one of the best songs.

Natalia: And also “Estamos Bien” is so completely different on his previous album from all the other songs he had on there.

Maria: And I will go ahead and again “Otra Noche en Miami” – literally one of the saddest songs. But also such a good beat. You can jam to it.

Natalia: Like “Otra Noche en Miami” and also “Estamos Bien” are very different from his usual pop reggaeton sounds, but “Estamos Bien” is actually one of my – it was on my Spotify Wrapped. That was my most listened to song in 2019. I love that song.

Maria: Oh, you're bringing back the Spotify Wrapped.

Natalia: I love that song. It got me through a lot of stuff. It's a great song. I love it. And now for the last song on the album.

Maria: Which is “<3”.

Natalia: It's not even – it's just like the...

Maria: The heart emoji – emoticon.

Natalia: Emoticon. Like the less than and the 3.

Maria: Which is stealing my brand. Truly.

Natalia: It's our brand. We both use it. So this is a very...It’s more of an ode to his fans.

Maria: Yes, it's an ode to everyone. It's an ode to his family, to his fans, to like…

Natalia: Like he calls out his grandma.

Maria: And that's when like, you wanna cry.

Natalia: Like, he's like, “Grandma today I reached another goal. I don't know if you saw me on the Super Bowl.”

Maria: Yeah.

Natalia: Which is so cute.

Maria: It's so sweet. And also, like, he talks a lot about how everyone wants to be like him, in the industry. And he doesn't want to be like a king. He doesn't want to be considered...

Natalia: Yeah, that’s not what he wants. He doesn’t like the fame.

Maria: Yeah. And so he's kind of talking about how he's himself and that's all he wants.

Natalia: But also, something that shocked a lot of fans was...

Maria: He says...Allegedly.

Natalia: Allegedly.

Maria: That in nine more months, he's going to release another album and then retire, which we both have different sentiments about this because...Nat, do you think it's true? Because I don't think it's true.

Natalia: I think it's true. He put it in a song.

Maria: I actually don't think it's true.

Natalia: We will see in nine months.

Maria: We will see in nine months.

Natalia: That’s like a baby.

Maria: I don't know I love this song. “<3” is one of my favorite ones. I just feel like – here's the thing with Bad Bunny. He makes me cry a lot.

Natalia: This album, we all thought. Like all the fans. So if you have not seen the Twitter memes for Bad Bunny, do it. They are so funny.

Maria: They’re so funny!

Natalia: Before the album, everyone was like “Me getting ready to cry at 12 am”. Like us mentally preparing ourselves for sadness. But then you listen to the album and you're like, “Oh, wait.”

Maria: It's really happy.

Natalia: Yeah, and he like says that. He's like, yeah, my first album was very nostalgic. It was kind of sad. This one? No.

Maria: This one the theme is…

Natalia: Do whatever you want.

Maria: Yeah. Do whatever you want.

Natalia: That's what he says. That what that's what he does.

Maria: Yes. And I love that for him. His Instagram stories on the night of the release. If you have not watched Bad Bunny singing “Tusa” by Karol G, it is the funniest video I have seen. It makes me cry from laughter.

Natalia: We've watched it on repeat multiple times.

Maria: Yes.

Natalia: And just laughed. He’s so cute.

Maria: Literally.

Natalia: I love him.

Maria: I love this man so much. And with that, I think we end with that. That's the lesson for today.

Natalia: This is Natalia Camino.

Maria: And this is Maria Caamaño.

Natalia & Maria: On NBN Audio.

[“Hablamos Mañana,” by Bad Bunny]

This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

Spotify playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1VR1sJMtl8e9ph14hET7EA

[“¿Quien Tu Eres?,” by Bad Bunny]

Natalia & Maria: Hello!

Maria: Welcome to Guatever! I’m Maria Caamaño.

Natalia: And I’m Natalia Camino.

Maria: And today we're finally getting around to doing a podcast episode on Bad Bunny!

Natalia: Unless you've been living under a rock, you are probably aware that Bad Bunny released his second album called…

Natalia & Maria: Yo Hago Lo Que Me Da La Gana.

Maria: Which translates to: I do what I want.

Natalia: Whatever I want. Which is iconic because no one can release an album on that date for another four years because it was a leap day.

Maria: Yeah, but that's like the type of stuff he does.

Natalia: I love him.

Maria: I love him so much!

Natalia: So the release of his album was the biggest debut of 2020 so far. And as of right now, Bad Bunny is in the Top 25 Most Listened To Artists on Spotify worldwide, which is very impressive…

Maria: And just proves his power.

Natalia: I love him. So we're going to break up this episode into like two parts. First, we're going to talk about who he is and the impact he has had on Latin America.

Maria: And the next is just talking about his album.

Natalia: Obviously, we won't get through his entire album because…

Maria: There are 20 songs.

Natalia: So we will pick and choose some of our favorites. So to fully understand why we love Bad Bunny, you need to understand that Maria and I are roommates because of him.

Maria: Literally. So, clears throat let me get started.

Natalia: Storytime!

Maria: So basically, when I was looking for a roommate at Northwestern, there is always a Facebook group for the incoming class. And I posted in the girls’ group looking for roommates that I was looking for one and I put like, “Oh, one of my favorite artists is Bad Bunny.” And then I got a message from someone…

Natalia: I commented, “OMG! I like Bad Bunny too!”

Maria: And then, literally because of this, we started DM-ing and became roommates.

Natalia: We will not read that conversation. It is a very awkward conversation. It has words...

Maria: It was very cringey.

Natalia: It was super cringey. There are words like proposal. And we talked about chairs a lot.

Maria: We did talk a lot about chairs. But that’s kind of like our energy, so it makes sense.

Natalia: So we're just gonna take a quick moment and appreciate…

Maria: What Bad Bunny has done for us. Benito…

Natalia: Benito...Gracias.

Maria: Gracias.

Natalia: This is for you.

Maria: This friendship is because of you.

Natalia: Look at what you've created. So who is he? His full name is Benito Antonio Martinez Ocasio.

Maria: He was born in Vega Baja in Puerto Rico. And he rose to fame really, or at least I remember, that he rose to fame mostly because of his song “Diles” and “Soy Peor.”

Natalia: Over the past few years he's risen to fame, mostly due to the support of Puerto Rican and Dominican audiences. And he kind of touches on this on the last track on his new album, where he says…

Maria: Gracia' a to' mis domi y a mi gente en Puerto Rico. Cada cosa que logro a ustede' se la' dedico. Which translates to “Thank you to my Dominicans and my people in Puerto Rico, everything I do, I dedicate to you.”

Natalia: But he has shown his gratitude to the people of Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic in various ways. So on his last album X100PRE, which was his first solo album, he has a song called “La Romana”. Which I'm … So Maria is laughing because for spring break I am going to la República Dominicana, and we are going to La Romana. Because it is a place.

Maria: So La Romana is in the coast of the DR, and it’s literally known for just being a place to go to the beach…

Natalia: I’m going there for spring break. And I've been practicing my Dominican accent. Utede no tan listo. ¡He estado practicando mi acento dominicano! (Translation: Y’all are not ready. I’ve been practicing my Dominican accent!)

Maria: Oh my God. It's like, it's so funny to me. This is so funny to me. She's made a list of what I say in Spanish to try and imitate it. And I find it hilarious.

Natalia: I'm trying my best. I'm dropping the S’s like it's nobody's business but in reality, it takes a lot of mental effort.

Maria: The entire point of dropping the S’s is so that you don't have to make any effort…

Natalia: Utede no tan listo para cuando yo vaya a la República Dominicana. (Translation: Y’all are not ready for when I go to the Dominican Republic.)

Maria: But yes, basically … I appreciate him so much. He recently tweeted in support of Dominicans because right now there's a lot of political tension going on due to the suspension of municipal elections in DR. I won't really get into that right now.

Natalia: Maria wrote an article about it.

Maria: We have to acknowledge that he's very supportive. But then he's also amazing. He uses his platform so well, to advocate and like to show support for Puerto Rico.

Natalia: Yeah, so in his new album there's a song called “P FKN R,” in which he kind of talks about how – it's not clear if he's talking about the U.S. government or the Puerto Rican more local government. But essentially in the song, he's like, “Hey, why do you talk all this talk and then not act on it?” The people in Puerto Rico are suffering. And so in 2018, when he went on The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon, he called out the Trump administration and said after one year of the hurricane, there are still people without electricity in their homes. This was after Hurricane Maria. And he said that more than 3,000 people died and Trump is still in denial. And this was a very personal issue for him because his family home – like where his parents live – was still running on three generators one year after Hurricane Maria. And so this kind of just shows how he really uses his platform.

Maria: Also, on July 22 of 2019, he headed the protests against Ricardo Roselló and he advocated like for his resignation. So, he, Ricky Martin and Residente.. were the ones who took to the streets and were actually protesting with people. And he posted so much about it. And I think that because of that, he got so much attention from other people who did not know what was going on.

Natalia: Bad Bunny definitely uses his album to raise awareness of issues in Puerto Rico because Puerto Rico's mostly forgotten by the American public because it's not considered a state – it’s essentially a colony. And so many times, it's forgotten and neglected by the US government. And so he raises awareness of some of the issues.

Maria: And also he is an advocate for just people raising their voices and fighting for what they believe in and fighting for democracy, which I think is something that's so great about him.

Natalia: Also, on his first album X100PRE, he had a song called “Solo de Mi”, which – if you listen to the first half – it's very melancholy and then picks up to be more upbeat. But the first half – also the first half of the music video for that song – is very obviously about domestic violence, which is not talked about in Latin America or even American society in general. It's not something that is talked about, and for a male Latin artist to talk about this is unheard of. It is a very taboo subject. And for him to bring it up because it does happen.

Maria: Oh, for sure.

Natalia: It happens everywhere. And for an artist to do this is truly powerful.

Maria: Yeah. Also recently, he had his Late Night debut with Jimmy Fallon in the US and he wore a shirt that said: “They killed Alexa, not a man with a skirt.” Alexa was a transgender woman in Puerto Rico who was ridiculed and killed, and when people in the media were talking about it, they would refer to Alexa as a man in a skirt. And so his shirt says, “They killed Alexa, not a man with a skirt” to kind of say like call her by her name, first of all, and then…

Natalia & Maria: He wore a skirt!

Natalia: Because HE is a man in a skirt!

Maria: This man. Yes because … UGH I love him so much! Also, he's the only man who can pull off Crocs. Unpopular opinion.

Natalia: Not even man just ... human … who can pull off crocs.

Maria: True.

Natalia: Yeah. And so, after all this and him going so much against social norms and social constructs, you’d think that Bad Bunny wouldn't be a popular artist – especially in Latin America where most of his audience is Latin males.

Maria: Yeah. And machismo is so prevalent in like Latin America that you would think that they wouldn't be like...

Natalia: They wouldn’t support his music. But that's not the case at all. If not, he's just gained more and more popularity.

Maria: And he's breaking those boundaries because personally, I've seen it myself. I have a friend who, after Bad Bunny started painting his nails, he started painting his nails. Which is something that is unheard of in the Dominican Republic. Literally unheard of for a guy to be proud of wearing nail polish. That is something that is unheard of, and I really saw … He was like “Oh, I want to paint my nails like Bad Bunny!” And I really saw firsthand his power.

Natalia: Yeah, he is an influencer in both contemporary Latin music, but also in fashion and gender norms and all these things.

Maria: Literally he does so much we can't really get into everything he does. I totally recommend to read an article in which he talks about sexual orientation. Y’all should read it. Yep, that's it.

Natalia: So, yes. We love Bad Bunny.

Maria: We love Benito.

Maria: This has been Maria Caamaño and Natalia Camino for NBN Audio.

[“¿Quien Tu Eres?,” by Bad Bunny]

This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

Playlist: https://open.spotify.com/user/nataliacamc/playlist/0di7F7hQ57nt357mhvQX3L?si=3nVq-IDmRS-lzteqXBQs1g

[“Let’s Get Loud,” by Jennifer Lopez]

Natalia & Maria: Hello!

Natalia: Welcome to Guatever!

Maria: I’m Maria Caamaño from Dominican Republic.

Natalia: And I’m Natalia Camino, and I was born in Mexico.

Maria: Today’s episode is on the 2020 Super Bowl Halftime Show. Now, we weren’t really originally planning to do this episode…

Natalia: But just based on the attention it’s gotten and how much it’s blown up, we felt like we needed to do it. So just a quick disclaimer! On this podcast, we do just talk about our opinions, and it’s okay to have different opinions from us, but what we talk about is just based on our personal experience and what we think. And then also Maria and I are taking an Introduction to Latinx Studies, so we’re kind of incorporating some of the things we learn from there into this podcast because we think they’re pretty relevant. But obviously we’re also still learning. So we...

Maria: And we like totally respect that other people have different opinions.

Natalia: Yeah, because we’re also literally 18 years old. We’ve been on this planet for 18 years. So we don’t know everything.

Natalia: Yeah! Let’s get into today’s episode. So Maria, have you ever watched the Super Bowl before?

Maria: I … OK, so I had never watched the Super Bowl. So this was the first time I had ever seen a halftime show live.

Natalia: Wow. So I watch the Super Bowl every year with my dad and my two brothers. I’m not an avid sports person … just to clarify. But I do enjoy watching sports, and if one more man tries to mansplain football to me, I might punch them. Not gonna lie. One time, this guy tried mansplaining football to me and he started with, “so there’s a defense and an offense.”

Maria: Oh my God.

Natalia: So, getting back to the halftime show. So the Super Bowl kind of represents the epitome of America, masculinity, man...

Maria: Manliness.

Natalia: Manliness. That’s what it represents. And to have two Latina women perform at the halftime show. I think it kind of represents everything that’s the opposite of the Super Bowl.

Maria: Yeah.

Natalia: In a sense.

Maria: Yeah, I get that.

Natalia: It was kind of ironic. It was kind of historic that two Latina women performed. So let’s set the stage as to how we watched it.

Maria: Okay.

Natalia: So it was ten minutes to the halftime show.

Maria: I downloaded the NFL app. We just waited for the halftime show to come on.

Natalia: We were literally doing homework waiting for the halftime show to come on.

Natalia: Classic NU.

Maria: But the thing is I wasn’t originally planning on watching the halftime show until I found out that it was Shakira and J-Lo.

Natalia: Yeah.

Maria: And then when we found out that it was Bad Bunny and J Balvin as well…

Natalia: We literally…

Maria: Lost our shit.

Natalia: Yes. Maria and I watching this halftime show, it was just us screaming a lot.

Maria: It was like we were both almost near tears, I had goosebumps … It was just an experience. And I guess we didn’t really think before it happened that it was as significant as it would be.

Natalia: Yeah. Like it didn’t really hit me until I was watching it. If anyone had told me five years ago that I would be watching two women who are Latina, like me, perform at the Super Bowl halftime show I would be like, “No, that’s not possible. America’s too racist for that.” That’s not gonna happen. And to see that actually happen … I’ve never seen that before. There’s barely any Latino representation whatsoever in media, in big globalized, commercialized events. And to see that was kind of powerful.

Maria: Yeah, I mean, while we were watching it Nat and I kept on talking very emotionally about how important representation really is. Because you don’t really realize it until you experience it. I really wasn’t thinking that it was going to be that big of a deal, but then I saw it and I was so excited and so happy. And it brought so much joy to me to see people who like their music I’ve been listening to, not only since I was little, like Shakira and J-Lo, but also currently with Bad Bunny and J Balvin. I had so much pride in being a Latina and my community.

Natalia: Yeah, I think it definitely has brought the Latino community together in a sense. Like we could all bond. We’ve ALL grown up listening to Shakira. I don’t know a single Latino person who has not grown up listening to Shakira. Like, Shakira has been a global icon.

Maria: She really has been.

Natalia: For arguably two decades, I grew up listening to her when I was 6. She had two World Cup songs – 2010 and 2014.

Maria: Mm-hmm.

Natalia: J-Lo also had a World Cup song in 2014. These women have been global icons for years.

Maria: Yes.

Natalia: So let’s just go through the performance really quick.

Maria: Yeah.

Natalia: So Shakira comes up. Absolutely kills it.

Maria: Yes.

Natalia: She even plays a Led Zeppelin riff on the guitar at one point.

Maria: She played guitar!

Maria & Natalia: She played the drums!

Maria: Like, this woman.

Natalia: She is 43 years old.

Maria: She’s amazing, and her dancing is amazing. Like, oh my God.

Natalia: And then J-Lo sings. Also kills it.

Maria: Yes.

Natalia: Literally, she is 50 years old.

Maria: She … that woman.

Natalia: I don’t know how they did it. I don’t think people are giving them sufficient credit for their dancing and how seamless, how flawless everything was choreographed, how everything just went through.

Maria: No mistakes. There’s this word I’m trying to use, and I forgot what it was.

Natalia: Like, Maria is a dancer.

Maria & Natalia: Very high-pitched laughter

Natalia: I don’t dance. I’ve tried. I wish I was gifted in dancing. But alas, I wasn’t. So, I don’t know where I was going that was just a fun fact.

Maria: I think they don’t get enough credit because, first of all, they had to split their time.

Natalia: Yeah.

Maria: They created perfect setlists that represent them perfectly. Their outfits were amazing. They have this stage presence that was amazing.

Natalia: Yes. They for sure – yes.

Maria: Like, the tricks they did? J-Lo was being carried for like half of her set.

Natalia: And I think also J-Lo and Shakira they both know what they represent though, and I think they used that to kind of convey what they wanted to.

Maria: Yes.

Natalia: Like I think it was really powerful that J-Lo brought her daughter – who is also Marc Anthony’s daughter. Like, imagine having your parents be Jennifer Lopez and Marc Anthony? I can’t.

Maria: I mean, that’s why she sings so well as well.

Natalia: Yeah. But anyways, J-Lo’s daughter comes up on stage and she starts singing “Born in the USA” while there’s children in cages. And I thought that was very powerful, and it was very impactful especially where we are today.

Maria: Yeah.

Natalia: Like, where America is today.

Maria: It was a power move.

Natalia: It was a power move because a few days later Donald Trump gave his State of the Union address and…

Maria & Natalia: sigh

Maria: I don’t even understand how I can begin to explain how I felt and I’m like…

Natalia: You’re not even American!

Maria: I’m not even American.

Natalia: Like, I’m not American either. But I just think it was really … it was a power move by J-Lo to do that and know the significance of it and still choose to do it. I think J-Lo doing that … it really showed not only America but the world the reality of being a Latino.

Maria: Yeah. It was a political statement.

Natalia: It was a political statement. And it showed what some Latinos have to deal with in America. And then she, while her daughter was singing “Born in the USA,” J-Lo comes out with a dual flag – one side, the Puerto Rico flag, and on the other side the American flag and that was also a political statement.

Maria: Yes, because she’s trying to freaking make people understand that you can be Latino but you’re also American. It’s not like you are a threat.

Natalia: Yeah. Also, J-Lo was born in the US!

Maria: Literally! That’s the entire point of her set. She’s Latina, she was born in the US – you can be…

Natalia: You can be both!

Maria: You can be both exactly.

Natalia: And she was kind of saying that people need to accept that and accept the reality of – yes, I am both American and both Latino. But also this is the reality that some Latinos have to live with and live in.

Maria: Yes.

Natalia: And I think also it was just powerful, and I think that’s what brought everyone together. Because her coming out in that flag was very representative. Also, because Shakira and J Balvin are both Colombian and Bad Bunny and J-Lo are both Puerto Rican.

Maria: Yes.

Natalia: And I think that really unified Latin America and tied it back to the United States.

Maria: Yes, and I also think it was very smart that they split it so that J-Lo and J Balvin and Bad Bunny and Shakira were together because it just shows that the Caribbean Latinos and the, I guess, South America part of like Latinos, feel like they are very different when you are a Latino, but we’re also a community.

Natalia: Yeah, and then also at the end Shakira comes out singing “Waka Waka,” and I think she sang it also to remind people that the world is unified.

Maria: I think their message was very positive. In that, they were trying … they were political, but they were doing it in a positive way.

Natalia: Yeah.

Maria: They were trying to be like, “We are a global community and we should be trying to be united rather than divided.” I think that what she was trying to do with “Waka Waka” was show that yes, they are two Latinas. They are still trying to be like, “We acknowledge that there are so many other cultures and that we are multicultural, and we are embracing those other cultures.”

Natalia: Yeah, and I think also J Balvin’s song “Mi Gente” really spoke to Latinos too. Because you could feel it in the stadium when he and J-Lo sang that together. Because they sang in Miami, which is kind of Latino capital of the United States.

Maria: Yeah.

Natalia: And you could feel the stadium vibrate when they sang that.

Maria: Mm-hmm.

Natalia: And they asked, “¿Donde esta mi gente?” Where are my people? And everyone just responded. It was a very impactful moment.

Maria: It was very emotional.

Natalia: Yes.

Maria: Like when we were watching it, I think we both got very emotional. The entire performance was really just a celebration.

Natalia: Yeah. That’s a good word to describe it. Yeah, for sure.

Maria: But I think also we kind of wanted to address more than anything in this episode was the controversy that came with the Super Bowl halftime. How Shakira and J-Lo were portrayed in the media is totally not okay.

Natalia: Yeah, like they were definitely hypersexualized.

Maria: I mean my stance on it – and I’ve told Nat about this – is that there were two kind of basic arguments on the performance on whether they were sexualizing themselves and being overly sexual or whether people are just tearing them down and they’re being empowered. And I personally feel like they are being torn down by other people. Like Adam Levine in the 2019 halftime was entirely…

Natalia: He was half-naked the entire time!

Maria: Yeah! He was like shirtless! And, of course, white moms were like, “Hubba hubba give me more!”.

Natalia: Oh God.

Maria: And then Shakira and J-Lo just come out and they’re like in these … Shakira was essentially in a crop top and a skirt or shorts, which is normal. She even had a jacket at the end. And then J-Lo was just in a bodysuit and a leotard and all of these women were like – not only women, also men were just like…

Natalia: Even though the cheerleaders wear – there’s less clothing on them than was on Shakira and J-Lo, but no one says anything.

Maria: About that. Well like what I was going to say was that there was a proposal for a parental warning. Like...

Natalia: Also, not gonna lie, it’s the Super Bowl Halftime show. What do you expect?

Maria: Exactly. Also, they’re in Miami. It’s hot. Let them have less clothes.

Natalia: Yes! They’re performing!

Maria: Yes! Exactly! What’s such a big deal about it? And like you said – the cheerleaders. But of course, no one questions the cheerleaders because they’re for the male gaze and entertainment.

Natalia: And also because they provide money for the NFL.

Maria: Yes.

Natalia: And is anyone gonna do anything to stop capitalism?

Maria & Natalia: No.

Maria: But also, J-Lo and Shakira did not get paid for their halftime show.

Natalia: Oh really?

Maria: I read about that. (If you want to read more, here’s the article: https://nypost.com/2020/02/04/shakira-and-jennifer-lopez-werent-paid-for-their-halftime-show/)

Natalia: I did not know that.

Maria: Yeah they didn’t get paid for the halftime show. So, I think like – you know what? Let them do whatever the hell they want.

Natalia: Arguably, the NFL made more money off of them performing because you got all of Latin America to watch.

Maria: Literally! Literally.

Natalia: Plus the rest of the world who love Shakira and J-Lo.

Maria: Yeah! Exactly!

Natalia: Yeah, so this is kind of just like what we have taken away from the halftime show.

Maria: Yeah. One of the things that also we wanted to address was that, first of all, thank you to everyone who sent us…

Natalia: Thank you to everyone who comments or listened to it! We really appreciate it.

Maria: Yes! And if you sent us feedback, we listened. Most of the comments that we got was that we move really fast between topics or that we don’t spend enough time on stuff, and it’s really because…

Natalia: We’ve spent hours talking about this and have to get it down to 15 minutes.

Maria: Yeah, we have a time limit so that’s why we can’t really divert as much as we’d like to.

Natalia: Also, most of our episodes won’t actually be like this. Like, next week we’re gonna dive into an artist and kind of talk about their impact on Latin America and also kind of go through their music...

Maria: Music.

Natalia: And kind of discuss it because that’s what we like to do. But we just felt like we needed to talk about this and address the Super Bowl halftime show.

Natalia: Also, listen to J Balvin’s podcast!

Maria: Oh, yes!

Natalia: It’s actually – it’s really good. It’s in Spanish so like if you don’t speak Spanish, I’m sorry. Learn Spanish.

Maria: Hahahaha.

Natalia: Like I don’t know what else to tell you. Google Translate the transcript?

Maria: What?

Natalia: I don’t know! But it’s really good! Check it out!

Maria: Okay! So this was the second episode!

Natalia: Tune in next time!

Maria & Natalia: Or Guatever.

Maria: This is Maria Caamaño.

Natalia: And this is Natalia Camino.

Maria: On NBN.

[“Let’s Get Loud,” by Jennifer Lopez]

This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

Guatever: Episode 1

Listen to the playlist :) https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2EMqCDcHrDOjFquwQOHapN?si=-zAEA_goSkOSRd0dhZkyDQ

[“I Like It,” by Cardi B, Bad Bunny, and J Balvin]

Natalia: Hi! I’m Natalia Camino and I am a freshman here at Northwestern, double majoring in Econ and International Studies.

Maria: And I am Maria Caamano and I am also a freshman here at Northwestern and I am majoring in journalism. For this podcast, I think we want to clarify that what we mean by Latin music isn’t just Latin artists. Like, we’re not just gonna be out here talking about Selena Gomez.

Natalia: Or Demi Lovato.

Maria: Yeah or like anyone who is like remotely Latino or makes music in English. We’re talking about real Latin American artists.

Natalia: Artists. Yeah. And, like the type of music that primarily comes from Latin America but is not really only listened to in Latin America.

Maria: Exactly.

Natalia: As we will discuss in our podcast.

Maria: However, in this episode of our podcast we are touching on Latin American artists who do make music in English.

Natalia: Yeah. So that’s kinda why we made this podcast because we love Latin music and we listen to Latin music all the time in our room.

Maria: Yes.

Natalia: On the way to class, we have passionate discussions about Latin music. On the bus to Chicago. And we kinda just feel that Latin music is not really represented in the US. Even though it is listened to by a lot of people in the United States.

Maria: Yeah. In 2018, the fifth most heard genre in the US was Latin music and it surpassed EDM and country music, which I mean, I’m not sorry about it surpassing country.

Natalia: I mean...it makes sense. So, kinda going off of that, the relationship we have with Latin music growing up has been very different. So it’s kinda weird that we both have this – the same passion and love for it. Even though we come from very different backgrounds, I guess.

Maria: Yes, for sure.

Natalia: So it’s kinda weird that we both have the same passion and love for it, even though we come from different backgrounds. I guess.

Maria: So do you want to talk about your background?

Natalia: So I moved to the U.S – I moved to Michigan- [from Mexico] when I was six years old and I grew up in Farmington Hills, MI. Which is considered one of the most diverse cities, or areas, in the U.S, but, like, even with that there were still only ten Latinos in my class of 300-some people. So, for me, my experience with Latin music has been very individual. I started listening to Latin music sophomore year and I would be like, “Hey guys listen to this,” but my friends didn’t speak Spanish so they were like “Oh coool...okay.” Because they didn’t know what I was talking about. But, like, for you it was very different.

Maria: Oh yeah, for sure. From my experience – I’m from Dominican Republic – I just moved to the US, about, I think now it’s four months?

Natalia: She’s an international student! So exotic!

Maria: So exotic! So tropical! But I like grew up in obviously, a Latin American country. So, obviously Latin American music was what I would hear on the radio. But, by the time I was in my teenage years, it kinda became this thing where I just felt very connected to it. As well as, like, just you would go to parties and that’s the only music they would be playing. So, eventually, if you want to avoid being the awkward person who doesn’t know what’s playing, you’ll eventually learn the songs. And then I had the privilege of, like, being able to go to summer programs in the US while I was in high school. So, I got to meet a lot of American kids by the time that Latin music was on the rise. It was just very different and it was very interesting to come from another country that that was solely the music you listen to.

Natalia: To being the only one who listens to that.

Maria: Exactly. And also like the idea of people being more open to it, I guess. I was more surprised by people being like “Oh, I want to listen to this. Can you recommend songs for me to listen to?” than by them being like “Oh, she listens to Latin music.” But, like, that’s it.

Natalia: Yeah, like, I mean, we’re kinda talking about this too but there’s definitely been a change in the US recently in which people listen to Latin music more. So, also just another introductory thing for our pOdCaSt. Um, we’re mostly focusing on reggaeton and urbano, which are under the umbrella of Latin music. There’s obviously a lot more; there’s banda, norteña, classic Mexican, like José Miguel...NOT José Miguel. That’s my Uncle! [laughter]

Maria: That’s my stepdad!

Natalia: Luis Miguel and Jose Jose.

Natalia: But yeah, so first we wanted to start with some misconceptions about reggaeton.

Maria: Oh, yes. I guess we both have had this experience where our parents were like: “Oh my God. Reggaeton?!”

Natalia: Yeah, like I told my parents I am doing a podcast on reggaeton and my mom was like, “reggaeton??!!” Like, scandalized, she was scandalized. If you listen to some of the big reggaeton and urbano hits, they’re kinda – the language they use sometimes can come off as kinda vulgar.

Maria: Yeah, it’s kinda like dirty.

Natalia: Yeah.

Maria: But we’ve talked about this in the past. Like, we both think that it’s very...like, it wouldn’t make sense if they didn’t use that type of language.

Natalia: The more you listen to reggaeton, the more you can tell that the words they use, they use it to either catch people’s attention, and then they also use it ironically. Like, these artists know what they’re doing.

Maria: Oh, for sure, for sure.

Natalia: They put a lot of thought.

Maria: Yeah.

Natalia: Like, it’s true art. Yeah. And so, I think also reggaeton has a negative connotation with the older generation.

Maria: Oh, for sure.

Natalia: It’s like Elvis Presley. In the 50s, people kinda thought Elvis Presley was scandalous and dirty. That’s what the older generation thought, but now he’s like an icon. And I think reggaeton kinda is that way too, like the older generation is like, “Oh, this is so scAndAlous! Ugh! oUr cHilDrens’ mInDs!”

Maria: “Cover their ears!”

Natalia: “Cover their ears!”

Natalia: But, I think also reggaeton, like, some of the stigma surrounding reggaeton is because it comes from predominantly Caribbean sound.

Maria: Yes.

Natalia: And so, the Latino population is kinda – it’s not racist necessarily because we’re all kinda the same...we’re a mixture of races, but it’s like colorism.

Maria: Well, like, the thing is, we’ve had this discussion in the past and obviously we’re not gonna get too much into it because its...

Natalia: That’s not what this podcast is about.

Maria: Yeah. And it’s also very controversial. But I think colorism is definitely a thing in Latin America.

Natalia: It’s just stereotypes.

Maria: Yeah.

Natalia: So, like the older generation has a stereotype for what reggaeton is, and it’s subconsciously racist. But we’re not gonna really get into that. But yeah! Earlier we were talking about how recently we’ve seen a rise of Latin music in the US. And I think the first one, like...

Maria: We have to give it credit as much as we hate to.

Natalia: Yeah. I mean there’s been some hits here and there like “Danza Kuduro” and “Gasolina”; like, those still go hard everywhere.

Maria: Yeah.

Natalia: But the first one...That really like...

Maria: That really resonated with people.

Natalia: With the American public.

Maria: Was…

Natalia & Maria: “Despacito.”

Maria: So...

Natalia: By Luis Fonsi, Daddy Yankee, and LASTLY Justin Bieber. If you have not listened to the original Despacito with just Luis Fonsi and Daddy Yankee…

Maria: That goes way harder than the Justin Bieber remix.

Natalia: It’s like...Justin Bieber did to “Despacito” – this is an analogy – Justin Bieber did to “Despacito” what Justin Bieber did to “Bad Guy” with Billie Eilish.

Maria: Oh! Yes.

Natalia: He ruined them.

Maria: Yep. But basically most people don’t know that “Despacito” had an original version, before Justin Bieber, that was only Luis Fonsi and Daddy Yankee and it was released in January of 2017. The Bieber remix, however, was released after they had already gained a lot of fame and success in Latin American countries with “Despacito.” And then they released it in April of 2017 with Justin Bieber.

Natalia: I was listening to the original one.

Maria: Same.

Natalia: Like January through March.

Maria: Oh, for sure.

Natalia: I was like “Oh, this goes hard. It’s a good reggaeton song.” But then, “Despacito” came out and people literally did not know how to act. They were acting like it was the first Latin song to ever exist. But now, like today, whenever I hear “Despacito” – the remix – whenever it comes on shuffle it’s just a reminder that I have to get my shit together because “Despacito” to me now represents all that is bad in the world. Like, I can’t listen to “Despacito” anymore.

Maria: Of course. “Despacito” was a really good song. Like she said, I was jamming out to it when it came out. And Bieber hadn’t done music for a long ass time during that time. And he just decided “You know what? Imma jump on this song. I’m gonna like…”

Natalia: JUSTIN BIEBER DIDN’T EVEN KNOW THE WORDS HE COULDN’T SING THEM BECAUSE HE…But yes, so “Despacito” – other than – with Justin Bieber as much as he kinda ruined the song, he allowed for it to really propel forward in the United States.

Maria: For sure.

Natalia: Because, as you were saying, he hadn’t written or he hadn’t released a lot of music in a while. And so he kinda propelled it forward and people were losing their minds because they were like, “Latin music is good??? WHAT?!”

Maria: “WOW!”

Natalia: “Like, WHAT?!”

Maria: And then “I Like It” came out, and when “I Like It” came out I don’t think Cardi realized the power this collab was gonna have. I appreciate Cardi, I’ve told this to Nat, I love her cause she’s Dominican. I appreciate that she’s honest, that she’s that bitch, and I like that she tried to make a song...

Natalia: That went back to her roots.

Maria: Yeah, exactly!

Natalia: It’s like what she was trying to do. Yeah, so Cardi didn’t really know the power that Bad Bunny and J Balvin possessed in Latin America. Okay, I listened to “I Like It” because of J Balvin and Bad Bunny.

Maria: Same.

Natalia: Because, for those who don’t know, J Balvin...Last year in 2019, he was one of the top Spotify artists...

Maria: He was the artist of the decade for 2019 with Ariana!

Natalia: J Balvin has a musical monopoly. Sorry, my econ major is showing. He has a musical monopoly of the Latin American music industry in a sense. So, I listened to “I Like It” because of that,

Maria: Yeah, same.

Natalia: But then my American friends were like, “Oh, Cardi B! This is such a new song! Oh, it’s so good!” And I’m like, “Yeah, did you listen to Bad Bunny’s verse?! It goes so hard!” And they’re like, “Who’s Bad Bunny?”

Maria: Yeah.

Natalia: And I’m like melting on the ground like “Ughhhhh”.

Maria: No yeah, I told Nat when we were having a very heated discussion at like 11 at night in our dorm that I think that without “I Like It,” Latin music couldn’t have stayed…

Natalia: Relevant.

Maria: Yeah. I think “Despacito” was kinda like what you would say a one-hit-wonder I guess.

Natalia: Kind of, yeah.

Maria: It was like,

Natalia: It was a little sample.

Maria: It put people’s minds into, like, “Oh, Latin music is okay I guess.”

Natalia: It’s like a little sample. It’s like “Ooh, that was kinda good!”

Maria: They saw that it was successful and then they released this, which was just amazing. It was the song of the summer. Cardi herself said in an interview with W magazine that she never thought that it would take off like it did.

Natalia: And in 2018, Apple Music released that “I Like It” was the 6th most-streamed song of that year, which is crazy.

Maria: Yeah.

Natalia: Because like, no Latin song had ever reached that point before. Yeah, and especially with streaming, it allows music to be so much more globalized.

Maria: Exactly, yeah.

Natalia: Yeah, so like music has been able to be listened to around the globe so much more easily because of these streaming services such as Apple Music and Spotify and all that. Uh, so this kinda has allowed for Latin music to be on the rise in the U.S., so how do you feel about that? That’s like some of our closing remarks, I guess.

Maria: I guess. I feel like it’s good. I think music, however, is something that is very global. And I think that I am very pro-listening to other culture’s music.

Natalia: Yeah, for sure.

Maria: I feel like other people listening to Latin music makes it also so that Latinos are kinda heard out a little bit more?

Natalia: Yeah, I feel like it allows us to feel like we’re more a part of the American culture. But I still feel like there is a very long way to go.

Maria: But I guess you could also make that argument that there’s a long way to go for everyone.

Natalia: Yeah, I mean I feel like overall the music industry is very whitewashed.

Maria: Yeah.

Natalia: For sure. “I Like It,” even, which was the biggest Latin American song, they do swear in both English and Spanish.

Maria: Uh-huh.

Natalia: For those who don’t speak Spanish, they say all this stuff and the American government or censor people or whatever…the Federal Censorship Commission or whatever...AP Gov showing through. They censor the English swear words, they censor the n-word, but then they don’t censor like chingar and cabrón which are, like, for the large majority of Spanish speakers in the US...they know what that means.

Maria: Oh, for sure.

Natalia: So like, I think that’s kinda ironic and really shows how the American public doesn’t fully understand.

Maria: In the end, what we are trying to say and what I think also what we are trying to achieve with this podcast is that we want more people to listen to Latin music, understand it, even if you don’t understand Spanish – we are here to try and ease you into it.

Natalia: So, along with our podcast, there’s gonna be a playlist with each episode. I’m curating the playlist so this week it’s some of the songs we mention in today’s podcast and also some of the songs by artists that we are going to be covering in the next episodes because the next episodes we are diving more into different artists.

Maria: And just their history, how have they been affecting Latin America, how have they been changing the music industry – just more about specific artists.

Natalia: And that is it.

Together: So tune in next time, or gUaTevEr.

Natalia: This has been Natalia Camino.

Maria: And Maria Caamaño. On NBN.

[Outro of “I Like It” by Cardi B, Bad Bunny, and J Balvin]

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Intro

[The Fire Alarm Theme by Tenny Tsang]

Welcome to the very first episode of the fire alarm from North by Northwestern. I am Roman Raies, and today we are discussing what President Donald Trump’s decision to withdraw 1,000 U.S. troops from Northern Syria means for Syrians, the U.S. and everyone in the region.

One of these regions where U.S. troops have been stationed is Syria. Troops were first sent there in 2015 to fight Islamist extremism alongside Kurdish allies in the Syrian Democratic Forces, who are considered to be one of the most effective forces against Islamist extremism to have ever existed.

October 13, of this year, Trump decided to withdraw nearly all of the remaining 1,000 U.S. troops stationed Northern Syria, a move which once again drew widespread criticism from Republicans, Democrats and our Kurdish allies, who called it a betrayal. In anticipation of this move, the Syrian Democratic Forces formed an uneasy alliance with the Syrian Dictator, Bashar Al Assad.

Since then, Turkey ,which opposes the SDF’s attempt to establish a Kurdish led, self governing region, has begun a vicious bombing and ground troop campaign in parts of Northeastern syria controlled by the SDF, plunging the area into chaos. Tens of thousands of residents are fleeing south, several major towns and hospitals have been abandoned, and without U.S. forces there to aid Kurdish allies, ISIS militants have broken out of Kurdish-run prisons.

Pearlman: Now, if the Turks, the Turkish forces went into northeast Syria and there was only the Kurdish forces because the U.S. forces are no longer there, and the Assad forces and the Russian forces were no longer there, then I think the Kurdish forces would be at tremendous vulnerability before the invading Turkish forces. I think it's because, precisely because of that, that the Syrian Democratic Forces reached out to make a new alliance with the Assad regime. Now, the Assad regime, itself, they're war criminals that carried out tremendous violence, it's a dictatorship that has committed all sorts of crimes against humanity. And there's a long-standing conflict between the Kurds, and the Assad regime. So this is an alliance of convenience. Many are saying it's a military alliance, rather than a political alliance, there's still major differences in the Kurdish right hopes and aspirations and the Assad regime’s interest and Russia's interests, but you have different players, all of which want different things. And their interests overlap in some respects, and are in contrast at other respects. And it's a shifting situation in which different parties are going to try to advance their own interests as much as possible. And if there comes to be at some juncture, a confluence of interest between two parties, they pursue that, and for that the Kurds that see their options are violence from the Turks and making agreement with the Assad regime that they hate, they've chose the Assad regime and Russia which will then take advantage of that opportunity for the Assad regime to re-conquer this territory in northeast Syria, which had effectively slipped from its control for several years. Russia is taking advantage of the opportunity to reassert itself as the dealmaker, as the most important superpower in the Middle East, now that the United States is showing less and less interest in being an active party. So different parties are showing their interest. The Turks want the Kurds, far from the border, the Assad regime wants to retake territory. The Russians, Russia wants to support the Assad regime, and also become a real player and the Kurds don't want to be slaughtered. And that's what we have seen, essentially, unfold in the latest agreements that are being made.

Raies: Right, and, if I'm not mistaken, the conflict started mostly after 2011 after the Arab Spring.

Pearlman: Yeah. Yeah, that's the context, so you know the Arab Spring begins with a protest in Tunisia and then Egypt and spread to other countries, and there was also a popular uprising in Syria, of Syrians going out into the streets and calling for Democratic change calling for freedom, calling for an end to corruption – calling basically for reform, not even the overthrow of the Assad regime but wanting greater freedoms, and the Assad regime responded to those peaceful protests with tremendous violence. Protests remained peaceful for many months. Eventually the opposition also took up arms against the onslaught of this of this state, wanting to crush it. Other non-state and state actors became involved in the very chaotic situation. And in the context of this you had Al-Qaeda, created a presence, ISIS emerged as its own group and Kurdish groups also formed militias and armed and became players in this fragmented situation with many different players. So, this is all the evolution of a violence-complicated situation since 2011.

Raies: And what is the characteristic of Assad's regime, does he try to keep his people's opinion in favor of him? Is it common for Syrian civilians to be pro-Assad? Or what I'm saying is, does anyone view the opposition as the problem.

Pearlman: Yeah, it's split. It's a complicated war in which you have many Syrians who went out into the streets wanting, as I said before, calling for reform – they weren't even calling for the overthrow of the regime. They were just, it was a security state in which the government can basically arrest anybody they wanted on no cause, there was an enormous problem of, there were, you know, 10s of thousands disappeared and tortured and political imprisonment. There was rampant corruption nothing going to get done unless you pay bribes and you had enough people went out into the streets, just as they did in Tunisia and Egypt and said, ‘We want a better, freer, society. We want rule of law. We want accountability.’ And, and you had a regime that responded basically saying it would make no real concessions, no real power sharing, and it would use force to stamp out that movement. Now, so there were great numbers that wanted change. At the same time, there were always some loyalists who stuck with the regime, and some because they benefited from that status quo. One. Two, there were some who are afraid that should the regime collapse, the alternative would be even worse. The regime, always for decades has presented itself as a protector of religious minorities. So the, the majority in Syria is Sunni Arab Muslim, but there are other religious and ethnic minorities, and because the Assad family is itself from a religious minority, it has often tried to portray itself as a protector of other religious minorities, like itself, and has used real techniques of fear mongering essentially to communicate to the public that should this Sunni Arab majority come to power, it might institute Islamic law and be extremists and they're funded by Saudis and they want to ruin Syria's secular, national way of life. So for that reason, especially many religious minorities stuck with the regime, although they all know also noticed, were convinced the regime was corrupt and repressive, they were afraid that the alternative, should the region collapse, would be even worse, and the regime worked very deliberately to build that fear. So you have some people who support the regime because they're part of the regime. Others, out of fear, uncertainty. Also a portion of the population simply sort of put their head down, they're not with one side or the other. They're simply afraid and they want to get by. And they don't want to be caught on the losing side and be punished for it, because the opposition's paid an enormous price of over half a million dead, of 12 million people displaced, tens of thousands disappeared. You know there were people who didn't want to get caught on the wrong side and pay a price for themselves and their family. So yes, there are some who still remain in favor of the regime, and there are others who are against it. And there's a whole lot in the middle that are just hoping for life to go back to.

Raies: Right. But I've read that although the Syrian Democratic Forces have also committed some human rights abuses. I've read that the Syrian Kurds and the Kurdish-controlled, or partially controlled regions I guess it's not they're not recognized by Assad, but I've read, they also portrayed themselves as defenders of religious liberty, so is that characterization self characterization accurate?

Pearlman: There have been abuses on all sides, so there have been ethnically or religious – so there are some who have accused some of the Kurdish forces to have forced Arabs from their homes and things of that sort. So there are accusations and there are abuses by every single party in this conflict. There is for sure, no bigger human rights violation in the Assad regime, right, that is that is definitive. It has killed and it has tortured the most, and it is it is the party responsible for the most deaths, both the Assad regime and its international backers, like the Russian Air Force that's been involved in destroying cities and so forth.

Raies: Okay, I'm gonna move to ask about Tulsi Gabbard who made a pretty interesting stance at the last Democratic debate by [insinuating] that the conflict is really rooted in U.S. efforts for regime change and if the U.S. simply stays out, then this, the violence we're seeing today, would not be occurring. Is there any legitimacy to that claim?

Pearlman: Zero. I mean, I was stunned when I heard her words, it, it sounded like 100% Assad regime propaganda or Russian propaganda. To me, this is not any sort of regime change operation, what you had was a genuine grassroots popular uprising of Syrian citizens who wanted better lives. The United States did not start that uprising. Not only did it not start it, it did not help it or defend it in any real way. I would say the problem was not that the U.S. intervened too much to overthrow Assad. If anything, my own view is that the U.S. intervened too little as we basically sat back and watched the Assad regime slaughter people with chemical weapons, with barrel bombs, with every imaginable weapon. And we did too little to defend defenseless civilians against the full weapons in the arsenal of an army. There's nothing that civilians can do to protect themselves from bombs from above, they're being bombed by airplanes and helicopters. We watched it. We know it. We've watched it day by day for over eight years and have done basically nothing. So, to say that the U.S. has led a regime change operation in Syria for me is, is completely the opposite of reality.

Conclusion:

Thank you for listening, this is the Fire Alarm from North by Northwestern Audio.

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