On this episode, Jason and Matt are joined by their close friend Luis Fernando Mises, along with Jennifer Gillis and Misty Brown, two tireless advocates with the American Kratom Association. Together, we dive deep into the criminalization of kratom — from Louisiana's looming ban to the federal government’s quiet war on natural medicine.

Luis Fernando Mises is a consultant who teaches leadership across the U.S., a yoga and meditation teacher, a student of Austrian economics, a statesman with the Libertarian Party, a curandero, an entrepreneur, and a family man. He also runs a successful kratom business and brings rare clarity on both the plant and the marketplace.

Misty Brown is a fierce kratom advocate and consumer who uses her voice to protect whole-leaf kratom and keep it legal and safe. Her work is personal — helping others fight addiction, chronic pain, anxiety, and depression.

Jennifer Gillis has lived with chronic pain for 19 years. After finding real relief through kratom six years ago, she became a dedicated advocate, educator, and truth-teller who supports efforts to keep kratom accessible for all.

We begin with the Louisiana ban, where Misty reveals troubling claims of bribery between a sheriff and a rehab clinic pushing the ban behind closed doors. From there, we move to the federal level — breaking down the media’s obsession with 7-OH (a lab-concentrated alkaloid being falsely labeled as “kratom”) and how it’s fueling disinformation, addiction, and panic.

Luis gives clear and grounded advice on avoiding dangerous gas station extracts and choosing safe, whole-leaf kratom instead. We then explore the FDA’s alliance with Big Pharma, RFK Jr.’s recent crackdown on 7-OH, and how this could pave the way for a nationwide ban.

We dive into Scott Gottlieb’s ties to GlaxoSmithKline, the push for synthetic patents, and the blatant monopolization of nature. Then we bring it home with a hard look at the horrors of prohibition through the heartbreaking stories of Shaina Brown and Marshall Price, two innocent people whose lives were upended — and in one case, ended — over this plant.

We close with each guest offering real solutions and a final word of encouragement to the millions of Americans who use kratom safely, responsibly, and with purpose.

This is a must-listen for anyone who cares about bodily autonomy, plant medicine, and the rising tide of pharmaceutical control. (Length: 1:08:44)