Marine Le Pen has been convicted of embezzling EU funds, potentially ruining her plans to run for the French presidency in 2027.

Marine Le Pen was seen as the frontrunner to replace Emmanuel Macron at that election so the judge’s decision to ban her from standing for public office for the next five years has led to a backlash from her supporters and right-wing European allies.

Nick and Amol talk to Yascha Mounk, an expert on populism and author of The Identity Trap, about what this verdict means for Europe’s populist parties (6:12).

And Nick and Amol get all sentimental in Moment of the Week (42:06).

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The Today Podcast is hosted by Amol Rajan and Nick Robinson who are both presenters of BBC Radio 4’s Today programme. Amol was the BBC’s media editor for six years and is the former editor of the Independent, he’s also the current presenter of University Challenge. Nick has presented the Today programme since 2015, he was the BBC’s political editor for ten years before that and also previously worked as ITV’s political editor.

This episode was made by Lewis Vickers with Izzy Rowley. Digital production was by Izzy Rowley. The technical producer was Dafydd Evans. The editor is Louisa Lewis. The executive producer is Owenna Griffiths.