Haaretz Podcast

What do Donald Trump’s team choices signal about future policies on Iran, Gaza and Israel? How is the isolationist wing in Trump’s circle already influencing his decisions? And why is the U.S. Jewish community caught in a battle of narratives over the number of Jews who voted for Trump for president?

In this episode of the Haaretz Podcast, host Allison Kaplan Sommer and Haaretz Washington correspondent Ben Samuels delve into Trump’s upcoming return to the White House and its potential impact on the Middle East and American Jews.

 

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**The sound of a siren warning of rocket fire is heard in this episode of the Haaretz Podcast**

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's "gamble" on extending the war in Gaza in anticipation of Donald Trump winning the U.S. election seems to have paid off, according to Haaretz senior military analyst Amos Harel.

In conversation with Haaretz Podcast host Allison Kaplan Sommer, Harel said that Netanyahu "kept promising total victory, what he actually had was sort of a Forever War. It was not forever, but he was waiting for November, and for January 20 and for his friend Trump to be back in the White House."

What is the Israeli premier hoping to get out of his bet? Harel believes that in renewing the Bibi-Trump bromance, Netanyahu believes he can win U.S. support for measures that will stop his criminal trial - Trump after all, will certainly sympathize - and move ahead with the judicial coup that will damage Israeli democracy.

Also on the podcast, Harel discusses and explains what stood behind Netanyahu's  decision to fire Defense Minister Yoav Gallant on the day of the U.S. election, and his not-so-veiled threat that the IDF Chief of Staff and head of Shin Bet security service may be next if they don't fall in line.

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Normally, foreign policy doesn't play a major role in presidential politics, but the 2024 race between Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump has been an exception. Israel's wars in Gaza and Lebanon have become hotly debated issues.

Susan Glasser, a staff writer at The New Yorker and co-author of “The Divider,” which chronicled the first Trump term, spoke to Haaretz Podcast host Allison Kaplan Sommer on the eve of one of the closest elections is U.S. history.

Glasser discussed the potential impact of the election on the Middle East and global politics, how a second Trump term would differ radically from a Harris presidency as far as U.S.-Israel relations are concerned, the influence of big Trump donors like Miriam Adelson and Elon Musk on the race, and her experience covering Trump's massive Madison Square Garden rally, the climactic pre-election event for Trump and the MAGA movement.

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In a special edition of the Haaretz Podcast ahead of Tuesday’s 2024 U.S. presidential election, Halie Soifer, CEO of the Jewish Democratic Council of America and Peter Deutsch, a former Florida congressman, faced off in a heated exchange of views, debating whether a victory by Vice President Kamala Harris or former President Donald Trump in the race for the White House would best serve the interests of Israel and the American Jewish community.

The debate was moderated by Haaretz Podcast host Allison Kaplan Sommer and Haaretz Washington correspondent, Ben Samuels. 

Deutsch argued that for American Jewish voters “effectively, there are two candidates in the race, one that's giving money to people that are literally killing your family, and another who, for four years, protected your family and kept peace in the world.”

Soifer staunchly defended Harris, saying the current administration provided Israel with “more military assistance than any White House in a year in history.” She had her own harsh words for the Republican nominee, calling him an "indecent and immoral man" and a “bigot” and “felon” who “aligns with and dines with Holocaust deniers and right wing extremists.”

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No one in Israel will ever forget where they were at 6:29 A.M. on Saturday October 7, when Hamas attacked Israel. For Haaretz journalists, it was a day that the personal and professional collided, whether they were trying to survive the assault on their own home, reporting from the south under a hail of bullets, editing news about massacres at their parents' kibbutz, filing amid ceaseless rocket fire or contacting friends in Gaza, knowing the coming war would destroy the fabric of their lives.

Journalists are often resistant to 'pull back the curtain' to talk about how, rather than what, they report. In this podcast, three Haaretz journalists - Bar Peleg, Sheren Falah Saab and Linda Dayan - interviewed by Haaretz English editor-in-chief Esther Solomon, give a unique look into their work on October 7 and since, and what motivates them after more than a year of savage and expanding conflict.

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In retrospect, Israel should not have endured a year of Hezbollah missile attacks that decimated its northern region before fighting back, Orna Mizrahi, a senior researcher at the Institute for National Security Studies said on the Haaretz Podcast, but waiting appeared to be the best strategy following the Hamas attacks of October 7.

After that trauma, "the decision of the Israeli cabinet was to focus on the war against Hamas in Gaza. And I thought that this was the right decision, because we had no other choice but to go after Hamas and try to save our hostages," and the north, from where Hezbollah began firing on October 8, "would be a secondary front," said Mizrahi, a veteran of Israel's security establishment who served in the Israel Defense Forces for 26 years and spent 12 years in the National Security Council (NSC) in the Prime Minister's Office.

"So for 11 months, the IDF adapted the strategy they called an 'aggressive response' to the attacks of Hezbollah, and refrained from deviating from the rules of the game that Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah was shaping."

Nasrallah "realized that this kind of war of attrition is the best way... to weaken Israel and help Hamas in the war," she said. "It would have been desirable to act more forcefully earlier, but I think it's unfair to judge it in retrospect," adding, "it was impossible to estimate that we are going to have such a series of successful operations as we have had" over the past month.

Recent deadly missile and drone attacks, however, point to the fact that Hezbollah is far from being defeated.

They are clearly able to continue attacking Israel, "and I think they are going to do that until the last day and the last missile that they have," said Mizrahi.

The U.S. has been pushing since early in the war to pursue a cease-fire agreement that would resolve all of Israel's conflicts with Iranian proxies –both Hamas and Hezbollah. The Netanyahu government has consistently resisted this pressure, and the current campaign in the north is designed to sever the linkage between the conflicts in the north and the south.

"There are differing opinions in Israel on this matter," Mizrahi said. "I don't believe that the link between the arenas will advance the hostage deal. And in my opinion, we should look to separate the arenas. I say: If the late Nasrallah and [Hamas leader Yahya] Sinwar want this linkage between the fronts so much, it must not be so good for Israel."

She believes that linking the two war fronts "serves Sinwar because he wants a regional war," and believes it could help guarantee "the survival of Hamas."

In her view, each front should be dealt with separately, and the relative success against Hezbollah in the north, should lead, if possible, to a resolution before the more complicated matter of Gaza.

While Israel's ability to influence events in Lebanon after Hezbollah's weakening is limited, Mizrahi says the opportunity to try to free Israel's northern neighbor from Iran's grip shouldn't be squandered.

"Following the war, there will be a competition for the future of Lebanon, mainly between two main parties. One is the U.S. and the West," and the other is "Iran and the Shi'ite axis.

"We cannot leave Lebanon for the Iranians, and this is why I think that it's required that the West," along with moderate Arab countries, "use all their means to prevent the complete fall of Lebanon into the hands of Iran."

The ongoing war in Lebanon presents an "opportunity," Mizrahi said, which the Western world must grab in order to "shape a new political system in Lebanon in which Hezbollah and Iran are not so influential."

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The U.S. has strongly cautioned Israel against targeting Iran’s nuclear facilities and oil fields in a possible retaliatory strike for the 181 ballistic missiles Tehran launched last week. On the Haaretz Podcast, strategic and intelligence expert and Haaretz columnist Yossi Melman argues that such targets should be “off limits and out of bounds,” and not only because of the American objections. 

Israel should limit its response to military installations such as the “depots of long range missiles threatening Israel, the headquarters of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps and communication command centers and air defense systems,” says Melman.

He adds that hitting Iran’s oil fields and potentially paralyzing the world oil market - if Iran strikes back at Saudi oil fields - “is a very dangerous game.”

Also on the podcast, Melman discusses the deep contrast between the “colossal failure” of Israel’s vaunted intelligence services before October 7 and the way they have “salvaged their image and reputation” in recent months in their penetration of both Hezbollah and Iran.  

“Even within the Israeli intelligence community, they cannot explain this huge, huge gap between their performance on October 7 and their performance during the war,” he says. 

At the same time, he warns, “we need to put it into perspective. Israeli intelligence is excellent, but at the end of the day - it is just a tool” meant to support war goals and diplomatic efforts. 

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Hannah Wacholder Katsman knew that facing the anniversary of her son's death on October 7 would be difficult, but grieving in wartime Israel has been a challenge over the whole year, ever since her son was killed by Hamas terrorists in Kibbutz Holit, she said on the Haaretz Podcast.

Hayim Katsman, an American-Israeli who would have turned 33 on October 3, was a political scientist specializing in right-wing religious Zionism and a devoted peace activist, with eclectic interests and hobbies which he pursued alongside his teaching and research: gardening, music and auto mechanics. His dissertation was dedicated to "all life forms that exist between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea."

He was shot to death at his kibbutz home while protecting his next-door neighbor Avital Alajem.

His mother said that her year of mourning has included the experience of being "screamed at" while attending rallies and demonstrations in support of the families of those being held hostage in Gaza by Hamas and advocating for a deal for a cease-fire that would bring them home.

"There's just been a lot of hostility toward hostage families and toward peace activists like my son," she said, pointing to "offensive" comments from right-wing Israelis regarding victims of October 7 who were politically left-wing, "blaming the victims" for their fate.

She noted that in the months following her son's death, she received "a lot more support from the United States government" than from Israel's. No government representatives made in-person or phone contact with her or her family, or attended the funeral, visited her while mourning or attended memorial events.

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Amir Tibon will never forget what it felt like to be hunkered down in his safe room with his wife and two young daughters for hours on end, listening to the sound of Hamas terrorists on a murderous rampage in his neighborhood, Kibbutz Nahal Oz on the Gaza border, on October 7.

"You're on automatic pilot. You're hearing gunfire inside your house," he recalled. "You're locked inside with two very young girls, and you're just operating in the situation, trying to keep the girls calm and quiet and reserved, trying to keep yourself calm and quiet and reserved, because if we were to exhibit any signs of distress, the girls would immediately see it."

On the Haaretz Podcast, Tibon discussed the dramatic rescue of his family carried out by his father, retired IDF general Noam Tibon, a story he shares in his new book, "The Gates of Gaza: A Story of Betrayal, Survival and Hope on Israel's Borderlands."

The book fuses his personal story with that of Israel and Gaza, sharing the 70-year history of his home of Nahal Oz – the closest Israeli community to Gaza – and the steps that led to the war that is still grinding on today, a year after it began.

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If Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu enjoys a popularity comeback as a result of Israel's military operation against Hezbollah and the assassination of the group's chief Hassan Nasrallah, he is likely to be tempted to call early elections, Haaretz editor-in-chief Aluf Benn said on the Haaretz Podcast.

"It's a tried and true Netanyahu trick when he sees that his adversaries are weak," Benn noted, pointing to the reasons why doing so may be in the Israeli leader's interest, including "getting rid of" his far-right coalition partners Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich and his dependence on them.

Benn, a veteran commentator on military and security affairs, said that the decapitation of Hezbollah leadership and its current paralysis represents a significant military victory for Israel. Nasrallah, he said, was a victim of hubris and his downfall came as a shock to allies and enemies alike.

"Nasrallah was the symbol of Arab resistance to Israel and the United States," Benn said. "Over the years, he acquired a mythological image, even in Israel, as the man who understands Israel better than the Israelis themselves. But at the end of the day, even he was taken by surprise."

The planning and execution of the ongoing offensive against Hezbollah stands in sharp contrast to the failures and missteps of October 7 and difficulties in Gaza when fighting Hamas, said Benn.

"The IDF prepared for this attack for 18 years after the humiliation of the Second Lebanon War in 2006, when the IDF was caught unprepared for the kind of war that was waged. So for many years, the focus of Israeli intelligence, of Israeli drills, of operational planning, was Hezbollah."

While applauding the operation against Hezbollah, Benn warned that Israel still faces a substantial threat from the "ring of fire" Iran has built around the country.

"The Houthis in Yemen are still able to fire missiles at Israel... and the port of Eilat is still closed under the Houthi blockade. Pro-Iranian militias in Syria and Iraq are still there and Iran is still there. And most of the Hezbollah fighting force is alive and can be regrouped, even if not tomorrow or the next day."

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