Too many conversations about Gaza begin and end with one word: Hamas. And conversations about Hamas too often rely on reductive talking points.

In this episode, producer Max Freedman speaks with Tareq Baconi, author of the new book Hamas Contained: The Rise and Pacification of Palestinian Resistance. They discuss the origins of Hamas, its position in the Palestinian political landscape, and its governance of the Gaza Strip.

This episode was produced and edited by Max Freedman. Fact-checking by Asaf Calderon. Music by Nat Rosenzweig and from Blue Dot Sessions.