Jen Kanable lives in Chicago and Steph’s on the west coast, but they’ve remained BFFs since 1982! After high school Jen went to college and started her career when Steph took the marriage/motherhood route. Listen in to their conversation about what happened then, how life is now, and everything in between.

When’s the last time you had a one on one with your childhood bestie?

Mentioned in this episode: 

The Way Back Machine

Jeannette McCurdy I’m Glad My Mom Died

The Dark Side of the 90’s on Hulu

Acid for the Children on Audible by Flea

Lolo Webb on Instagram

House of Hammer 

DAHMER: Monster: The Jeffrey Dahmer Story

Abbott Elementary

True Crime Obsessed Podcast

The Rachel Maddow Show podcast

Girls Next Level podcast

The Prosecutors Podcast

Family Secrets podcast 

Due to not being able to line up a time to be together to record, Steph brilliantly comes up with the idea to record separately, like sending off little letters to each other. Both Heather and Steph share pieces of writing, thoughts about the week, and of course, what they're listening to, watching, and/or reading. 

Mentioned in this show: 

Run Towards the Danger by Sarah Polley

The Patient on Hulu 

Steph's Writing

Heather's Writing

Heather and Steph talk about having older kids now, and launching them; what they may regret and how to let go and be less hard on themselves. They aren't experts, but love to talk openly and honestly about how all of this feels. Also, for real...how is Steph's house so peaceful? (She answers this and Heather continues to be in awe.) And of course, stay tuned for an update on what Steph and Heather are reading, watching, and listening to. 

Mentioned in this show: 

Ann Imig - For Us, Folks With A Kid About To Launch

Molly Shannon's book, Hello, Molly! 

White Magic

Depresh Mode with Jamie Lee Curtis, Episode 71

Tig and Cheryl

Crime Beat

Simply Vanished podcast

A Mother's Day Message from Anna Quindlen

Quotes from the show: 

"I'm grieving how it could have been if I had let go earlier." - Heather

"There's no finish line, because your love is never going to stop." - Steph

"If you let go, you will get closer." - Steph

"Perfection simply cannot be the family standard, so every time we get it wrong, we let our kids off the hook a little." - Ann Imig

Heather and Steph discuss the classic "Five Love Languages" and last week's podcast episode of We Can Do Hard Things titled, "WHY ARE THERE NO PICTURES OF US?" Heather and Steph love We Can Do Hard Things, but didn't really love that episode, and in today's episode they discuss why. This brings up communication being key to so many of the questions we ponder about relationships, and then communication comes up during several other topics, including parenting kids with ADD/ADHD and how to get them on board with contributing around the house. Steph is brilliant. 

Mentioned in this episode:

We Can Do Hard Things

Pamela Dayton is back to talk spirituality, religion, faith and more with Steph! Pamela has a Master's of Divinity. She's a Christian. She's also an unashamed liberal, if we have to use such labels. Listen and Pamela and Steph share how they really feel, what they struggle with, and what they believe love really is. 

Pamela earned a Master of Arts in Social Justice and Theology in 2015, and a Master of Divinity in 2019. Pamela and three friends founded Free Hugs ROC, based on the Free Mom Hugs groups popping up around the country. In 2020 she served as a member of the Emotional Support Team that accompanied the racial justice protests in Rochester, New York, that began after Daniel Prude was murdered by the Rochester Police Department. Pamela lives in Rochester, New York, with her family. 

Mentioned in this episode: 

Nadia Bolz-Weber

Allah: A Christian Response by Mirislav Volf

Albert Fish: In Sin He Found Salvation 

Righteous Gemstones

Kevin Can F**ck Himself

Schitt$ Creek

Pedagoy of the Oppressed by Paolo Freire

All of This by Rebecca Woolf

Should it be said? Should it be said by me? Should it be said now? When trying to decide if we should respond to some Internet drama this week, we decided the answers to those questions is yes. Most of the time the answers are no, no, and no. Not much needs to be said about any kind of drama. But this particular situation hits close to home and puts people in harm's way. With Stephanie's personal experience as a mother of a transgender teen, it was time for us to speak up against harmful misinformation and to talk about how devastating it can be when people with large followings make statements against entire marginalized groups while also throwing several other fragile and vulnerable groups under the bus. It was an easy answer for us. We need to speak up, no matter how small our audience. Using our voices and platforms to teach and listen and grow is our goal. So this episode is our response to a blog post by a writing mother we once viewed as a supportive of all people. Please bear witness to this conversation with an open heart, and join us in keeping transgender kids alive. 

Mentioned in this episode: 

A League of Their Own on Prime

Run Towards the Danger by Sarah Polley

Cat Person by Kristen Roupenian

Bodies Bodies Bodies

Only Murders in the Building

Janelle Hanchett Renegade Mothering

All of This by Rebecca Woolf

Thoughtfully by Steph

Our guest Pamela Dayton and co-host Stephanie both have transgender kids, and in this episode they speak openly about their experience, knowledge, and love for their kids exactly as they are. Come along and learn how to love better, more fully, and with more grace. If you haven't had the opportunity to know a transgender person and feel you know very little about what "transgender" even means, this is an amazing opportunity to come to a place of better understanding. When we know more, we do better. (This episode also includes conversation about doing divorce as well as possible and why we don't have to call our marriages "failed" if we're divorced.) Thank you for being here. 

Pamela Dayton has had a decade of transformational experiences. And that is not to say that the first 30-something years of her life were lacking, but the past 10 really showed out. In 2013, Pamela traveled to Beirut, Lebanon, to work alongside Lebanese NGO “Heart for Lebanon.” She was part of a medical clinic team that visited Syrian refugee camps, and her role was to make portraits of refugees and document life in refugee camps. This trip ignited an awareness and passion for social justice.

Since that time, Pamela earned a Master of Arts in Social Justice and Theology in 2015, and a Master of Divinity in 2019. Pamela and three friends founded Free Hugs ROC, based on the Free Mom Hugs groups popping up around the country. In 2020 she served as a member of the Emotional Support Team that accompanied the racial justice protests in Rochester, New York, that began after Daniel Prude was murdered by the Rochester Police Department.

Currently Pamela is completing a one-year chaplain residency at the University of Rochester Medical center, and is looking for some sort of gainful employment. She is also working on a series of personal essays; when she is not typing, her fingers are crossed that they will evolve into book form and be published.

Pamela gave birth to four babies: Oliver, Jack, Henry, and Elliott, who are now the most amazing teenagers on the planet. She and their dad also picked up a bonus kid during the pandemic, and he fits their family perfectly. Pamela lives in Rochester with her partner, Scott, and their four cats. For fun, she knits, converses with her houseplants, and paints pictures of photos her friends post on social media. Pamela loves coffee, cheese, and naps.

You can find Pamela at: www.pamelabdayton.com

Mentioned in this show (and helpful resources): 

The Trevor Project 2022 National Survey on LGBTQ Youth Mental Health

https://www.instagram.com/pameladayton

The Transgender Teenby Stephanie Brill and Rachel Pepper

The Transgender Child by Stephanie Brill and Rachel Pepper

They/Them movie on Peacock

The House of the Spirits by Isabel Allende

Simply Vanished

#transgenderyouth 

#teamkeeptranskidsalive

#transparenting

#transkids

#divorce

#religion

Author Deb Rogers talks to Steph and Heather about her new book Florida Woman, the writing and publishing process and creativity in midlife and beyond. Heather and Steph have known Deb since the start of the good ol' blogging days and find her to be one of the smartest, funniest, and gentle souls on all the planets. Her book leaves the reader begging to find out what is happening under the surface at this strange animal sanctuary where the main character goes to work, instead of doing jail time. THE SUSPENSE. And then the twists? Go read Florida Woman! 

As a freelancer and consultant, Deb Rogers has worked on a number of popular communications projects including serving as Pop Culture editor of BlogHer and on the national expansion team for the Listen to Your Mother Show. This summer Hanover Square Press published her first novel, FLORIDA WOMAN, which has been called a "bewitching debut" by Publishers Weekly and was a Fantastic Strangelings Book Club selection. Follow her at @debontherocks

Mentioned in this episode: 

The Net Beneath Us by Carol Dunbar

Jenny Lawson The Bloggess

In Her Boots KJ del Antonia

White Magic by Elissa Washuta

The Bear on Hulu

Florida Woman by Deb Rogers

The Resort on Peacock

“How to Love Your Body Now” We Can Do Hard Things episode 117

Joe Exotic

Come along as Heather acts like a giddy child (and then ends up crying) simply because she's in the presence of someone who knew her when she was a literal giddy, giggling child. Riley Worth is one of Heather's oldest friends. He's also the most curious and engaging conversationalist Heather knows. Riley is a former journalist, a current teacher, a writer, and a very good friend. He's funny and kind and sometimes ridiculous, which makes him even better. Topics include but are not limited to: Riley admitting he used to read Young Miss Magazine, his thoughts on the Big Burly Dude and soul mates, why he lives in Saudi Arabia, aging, listening to women, and so much more. Don't miss it! See the show notes below for all the podcasts and people mentioned in this episode. P.S. Please forgive Heather for saying Anatomy of the Heart rather than Atlas of the Heart (Brene Brown) (Link below) 

Mentioned in the show: 

We Can Do Hard Things

Armchair Expert 

Wine and Crime

Patty Wetterling

Joy Baker 

Tell Me More with Kelly Corrigan

Brene Brown's Podcast 

Atlas of the Heart with Brene Brown on HBO

Do you feel like the term "self care" is just another way of saying, "you need to do more"? Well then, this episode is for you. Come along as Steph and Heather discuss what it feels like to hear you need to take better care of yourself when you're already drowning, when you can't think straight, let alone decide to do something to take care of yourself. Heather asked friends on Facebook to answer the question, "What are some obstacles to self care for you?" and many of the raw and honest responses are shared in this episode. And stay tuned for what Steph and Heather are reading and watching that they love. Thank you for being here! 

Mentioned in this episode: 

White Magic by Elissa Washuta

Run Toward the Danger by Sarah Polley

The Bear on Hulu

The Kingdom of Us on Netflix

Florida Woman by Deb Rogers

Nope, the movie

Shameless on Netflix