HEATED

Today’s newsletter contains the audio and edited transcript for Episode 5 of the HEATED podcast, out today on all your podcast apps. My guest is climate justice essayist and Columbia University writer-in-residence Mary Heglar.

But before we get into that, I want to talk real quick about what’s happening to the oil industry.

I keep hearing these January and February quotes from CNBC financial analyst Jim Cramer in my head as I watch it all happen:

“I’m done with fossil fuels ... They’re just done ...”

“My job is to help you try to make money. And the honest truth is I don’t think I can help you make money in the oil and gas stocks anymore.”

I’m sure the investors who followed Cramer’s advice back then are glad they did now.

Cramer, of course, expected oil’s downfall would come at a much slower pace. He also thought it’d be because investors would increasingly reject fossil fuel companies because of their role in driving catastrophic climate change.

I don’t think anyone expected it to happen like this.

Because of coronavirus, “The global oil industry is experiencing a shock like no other in its history,” International Energy Agency executive director Fatih Birol told the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday. People aren’t going anywhere, or doing anything—so there isn’t a huge demand for oil. Prices are therefore dropping to historically low levels. Twenty dollars a barrels! Look at these charts from the Wall Street Journal and Business Insider. Look at them!

No one knows when life will go back to normal again—if it ever does (yikes). So the oil industry has no idea when demand will go back to normal again. That’s why over the weekend, oil-producing nations led by the U.S., Russia, and Saudi Arabia agreed to a historic 10 percent cut in oil production, to hopefully have demand meet supply again, and raise oil prices enough where oil companies can make money.

This all obviously has implications for climate change. Do I know how significant they’ll be? Do I know what this drop in price, demand, and production will mean in the long-term for the oil industry or for the climate crisis? That’s a hard nope, and a hard nope—but I’ll at least attempt to answer those questions in tomorrow’s newsletter. I’ve already put out a few feelers, but if you know of any experts who could speak to these questions, shoot me an email. I’m at [email protected].

For now, I’m just going to list a few things that cost more than a barrel of oil right now.

* An 18-pack of 2-ply toilet paper.

* A 30-rack of Bud Light Lime.

* Two 24-packs of Klondike bars.

* An original, unopened copy of Now That’s What I Call Music Volume One on compact disc.

* Delivery avocado toast.

* The bobblehead of former New York Governor David Paterson I bought off e-Bay for my friend Andrew Beam for his wedding. (Beam doesn’t read the newsletter so he’ll never see this. Eat dirt Beam!)

Anyway, here’s my interview with Mary Heglar, condensed for clarity. And stay tuned for Mary’s suggested reading list at the very end.

If you enjoy the interview, consider making a donation to support the team behind the podcast. There’s never been a more important time to support independent journalism, and the content you care about.

EA: In your work, you think a lot about framing the issue of climate justice—presenting it in a way that will make people pay attention, that will grab people. You understand the power of presentation to move people.

I love what you wrote once for Inverse. “I want to coax and cajole the English language with all of its inadequacies—all its flaws, all the blood at its mouth—into the liberating language that we desperately need. I don't want a fact-finding mission. I want a truth telling movement.”

How do we make a truth-telling movement right now about climate change?

MH: I think we were very close before corona hit. But then, corona took over, and there started to be this narrative within climate circles of, “Now's not the right time.”

I see the climate movement running into this same wall quite frequently. It's really shown up with the way the climate movement tries to interact with communities of color. Instead of connecting climate to the issues that communities of color already care about, they will either not say anything about [those issues] at all, or they'll try to trump it and be like, “oh, you're worried about police violence? Well, climate change is much bigger.” They’ll eithergo way too far with it or go way too far back with it.

I'm seeing the exact same thing with corona. People are either not connecting corona to climate change, or they're when they talk about corona and climate, they're like, “oh, well, climate change is much, much worse.”

But instead of going to either one of those extremes, you could just connect them. Because climate and corona are going to play out on one another's backyards. Now is the time to make those connections. It's not the time to shut up. And it's also not a time to hush down the corona conversation either. They both need to happen in tandem with one another because the crises are going to interact. There they are interacting already.

EA: Yeah, we see it everywhere. Even with the just the fact that [coronavirus] is disproportionately already affecting black communities. And with hurricane season starting. These are compounded threats.

MH: Right. We don't have to look to the future. One of my good friends lives in Indiana, and she's not sure if it was a tornado, but they had a pretty powerful storm last night. Now she's quarantined with no power. Normally, during circumstances like that, you would take your neighbor in or your relatives in. But now you've got a socially isolate.

The natural response to extreme weather events is to be compassionate and to be kind to one another. As much as like New York gets a bad rap for not being a very kind city, I've been here through a few disasters and people are actually quite compassionate at those times. But now we're in a position where we literally have to walk away from each other. So now what happens if a Sandy rips through here when we're all in quarantine and all afraid of each other?

I shudder to think about how we're going to treat each other, because I firmly believe that empathy is the biggest muscle that we need to face the climate crisis. If we can't have empathy, I don't know what our odds of survival as a species are.

EA: I relate to that, because I balance between wanting to have empathy for people, and being really pissed off at everybody all time. You've written on both the need to be really angry, and the need to have empathy. In a piece you wrote last year, you said, “Given the sheer enormity of the crisis, it's it's okay to be depressed. But please don't stay there for too long. We need you.”

But at the same time, if it was hard to get people to act on climate change before, it’s way harder now. People are not only retreating into their homes, they're retreating into themselves.

MH: Both my empathy and my anger are both part of what I consider my core emotion at my response to climate change, which, believe it or not, is love. And I know that sounds fuddy-duddy or whatever, but it's real.

The reason I am able to like write about regular people with so much empathy is because I love them. I love them deeply. And then the people I hate, I really, really f*****g hate them. And I hate them because they've jeopardized the things that I love.

I also think that it just helps people to understand that's the way they feel is OK. Once you can say, “I understand why you're in pain, and I'm in pain, too,” it disarms them. Because usually when people are disengaged, that is because of some sort of defensiveness or some sort of feeling that they're not good enough. But if you can say to them, “I understand why you feel the way you feel, and I feel the same way,” then that can sort of break that barrier down. And now they're sort of ready to at least start thinking about acting.

That's why when I started writing, I decided to do …

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Below is a written transcript of Episode 4 of the HEATED podcast, out today on all your podcast apps, or at the audio file at the top. My guest is pediatrician and Harvard C-CHANGE interim director Dr. Aaron Bernstein. In it, he makes the case that fighting climate change is essential preventative care for the next pandemic.

My favorite quote from Dr. Bernstein comes at the very end: “The healthcare community doesn't wait weeks to tell you that, if you don't want to have a heart attack again, you need to stop smoking, change your diet, and the other factors that contribute to heart disease. We're in that moment now.”

If you enjoy the interview, consider making a donation to support the team behind the podcast. There’s never been a more important time to support independent journalism, and the content you care about.

Photo credit: Dr. Bernstein’s twitter, @DrAriBernstein

Emily Atkin: Dr. Bernstein, thank you so much for taking some time to come on to the HEATED podcast.

Aaron Bernstein: Thanks for having me.

EA: A few months ago, the Nieman Foundation for Journalism at Harvard hosted this training workshop for journalists on covering climate change, to help us help each other tell the story of climate change better. You were there, and you made this really compelling case for why we as journalists should be focused on the health impacts of climate change over everything. Could you make that case for our listeners?

AB: Sure. It's an easy one to make. We know that climate is a politicized issue in this country, which is a problem because it has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with reality. And so our charge is to figure out how to make it non-political.

So how do you do that? The evidence I've seen is by talking about climate change as a health problem. And not just as a health problem, but also as a health solution.

Even more so, the message is best communicated through healthcare providers, and that's based on research that has been done across the country looking at a whole suite of folks who could be the messenger on climate and health. The evidence is clear that primary care providers, doctors, and nurses are the most effective communicators.

So I think that's a key part of moving forward on climate. Bringing it down to size, making it personal, making it about health, and making it clear that when we do things, they benefit our health right now. Burning less fossil fuels means less air pollution. It that people are going to lead healthier lives, we're going to have less children showing up in emergency rooms with asthma attacks, we're going to have less adults going to emergency rooms and getting hospitalized with heart and lung problems and a whole suite of other outcomes.

EA: Is there a similar case to be made right now in the middle of the coronavirus pandemic?

AB: I've been working in the hospital off and on in the middle of this, and I'll be going back a week or so now. And one of the first children I cared for, we had to dress ourselves as if we were martians to go see. And you can rest assured that children are generally apprehensive of physicians, and dressing like a martian doesn't help.

As I was with that family and child, trying to form a bond through a layer of yellow gown, green mask and face shield, I realized pretty quickly that if we really want to talk about preventing this—because every time I'm with the family, the parents always want to know, “what could I have done to prevent this”—we have to talk about climate change. Of course hand washing is important. Social distancing is important. But that's actually not going to prevent this from happening again. What's going to prevent this from happening again is tackling climate change, is addressing the causes of biodiversity loss.

Many of us have a hard time grappling with the reality that we're losing life on Earth at a pace that hasn't happened since an asteroid struck 65 million years ago and wiped out half of life on earth. But that loss of life is really a major problem when it comes to these diseases. So if you really care about not having this happen again, we've got to come to grips with the changing climate, and with the loss of life on Earth—of which climate change, by the way, is a major factor.

EA: It reminds me of the testimony that you gave to Congress last year on the health impacts of climate change to children. I'll read very briefly from your testimony.

You said: “I've cared for children with asthma whose lungs have been so damaged by contaminated air they were scarcely able to breathe. I've sat with parents whose children had Lyme disease as they worried about whether their child's half paralyzed face would ever get better. I've cared for children who no longer had a will to live, having survived floods that once washed away their homes and their peace of mind. And I've held in my own arms, infants whose brains were deformed by Zika virus whose prospects of living a healthy life vanished before they were even born. What ties all these experiences together is our reliance on fossil fuels, which when extracted from the earth and burned damage our children's health, through climate change, and through the air and water pollution that they produce.”

How does the COVID-19 crisis compare with those personal experiences?

AB: Well, I think the difference is that we see COVID as a virus, and we put it in a group of experiences that we're all familiar with. People get the flu every year; they get stomach bugs; we get infections. It fits within a framework that people have already in their mind.

The challenge we face with climate is we don't have in our minds a direct connection with all those diseases you talked about. And so that's my job. I need to talk about how burning fossil fuels is, in fact, causing these problems. I need to make clear that, if you want to address these problems, we've got to do something about that. That's an uphill lift. And it’s an uphill lift because it's not within the day to day experience of anybody.

The other reality which we have to confront is that there are very powerful, wealthy individuals and corporations in this country around the world that extract and process fossil fuels, who would rather not change what they do—or more frankly, to accelerate the change we need. And so I think there are real differences. And that really, in my mind, makes it even more important for those who are in medicine and in public health, to talk about climate change despite the obstacles that may be in the way.

EA: How would you as a pediatrician, as an educator, talk to an average person about the link between climate change and coronavirus?

AB: As a pediatrician, one of the first things you learn is that you have to meet people where they're at. If somebody's been smoking a pack of cigarettes every day for years, and you start off by telling them smoking is really going to be bad for your health, you're not going to get very far if their mind is not in a place to recognize the reality that smoking is going to kill them.

And so I have seen huge amounts of blowback from making assertions about climate change, and why dealing with climate change is important for preventing the next pandemic and potentially making less pandemic more severe.

So if I were talking to one of them, I would start by saying, “What do you think caused this virus to emerge?”—trying to get at where their understanding is.

I think one of the challenges we face in this era is that science and scientific understanding is increasingly seen as another belief system. And I don't know that frankly, that's so different than any other point in human history. One might reasonably argue that more people in the world today understand that science is a method of discovering truth than perhaps at any point in human history. I think the difference is that for those who don't want to see science in any sort of fair way, there are any number of places they can go on social media or the internet to v…

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Hey there, paid subscribers! ICYMI, episode 3 of the HEATED podcast is out now. You should have gotten an email with the final cut and written transcript about an hour ago.

The above audio file contains my raw, unedited interview with Climate Justice Alliance policy coordinator Anthony Rogers-Wright. Do not listen to it if you do not like cursing. Actually maybe don’t listen to the episode in general if you don’t like cursing. There is… quite a bit of cursing.We’re only cursing, though, because s**t is fucked up! (Sorry). Climate change and coronavirus are both massive injustices—and that’s no a coincidence. Every societal problem is an injustice when the systems holding society together are unjust. COVID-19 demands that the most privileged in society reflect on how to change these systems. If we don’t, black and brown and indigenous and poor people will continue to die at a disproportionate rate.

Also, cursing makes talking about terrible things more fun. As I think I’ve shown many times, getting angry feels way better than being sad.

I think today’s podcast, edited or unedited, will do the former more than the latter. Hope you enjoy.

ONE MORE THING: Like the HEATED newsletter, the HEATED podcast is 100 percent listener supported. But unlike the newsletter, it’s not just me producing the podcast. A team of four makes it possible. I couldn’t do it without them.

So, if you’re enjoying the podcast, please consider supporting the team through our GoFundme page. It’s the only way we get paid for this work.

See you tomorrow!

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit heated.world/subscribe

Below is a written transcript of Episode 3 of the HEATED podcast, out today on all your podcast apps, or at the audio file at the top. My guest is climate justice advocate Anthony Rogers-Wright.

Today’s interview is extremely timely, coinciding with the release of troubling racial data about COVID-19 cases and deaths.

Just like climate change, coronavirus is disproportionately harming the most vulnerable in society. It’s imperative that the most privileged in society understand that, and put in the work to understand how they can fix it.

Today’s interview was conducted with that goal in mind. If you enjoy it, consider supporting the team behind it. We’re not getting paid for this work otherwise.

This is HEATED, a podcast where we’re showing how the COVID and climate crisis stories are actually the same story. I’m Emily Atkin.

If you’re finding us here on our third episode, make sure you also check out episodes one and two. In episode one, the legendary environmentalist Bill McKibben explains how and why to be a climate activist during a pandemic. And in episode 2, journalist Kate Aronoff explains how Congress is and isn’t addressing climate change while dealing with the virus. 

Today, we’re talking with environmental justice advocate and organizer Anthony Rogers-Wright. Anthony and I have gone through a lot together; he’s been a source of mine since at least 2014. As you’ll hear, Anthony cuts through the jargon and the niceties. He’s intense, and this is a conversation that wouldn’t show up in the mainstream climate or health press.

Anthony is the policy coordinator for the Climate Justice Alliance, a huge network of communities on the front lines of climate change. Indigenous communities, urban black communities, rural low-income communities—the people Anthony works with all share one thing in common: They are all disproportionately harmed by the effects of climate change and pollution.

And now, these communities are being disproportionately harmed by COVID-19, too.

I wanna make clear that Anthony is speaking only for himself, not the Alliance, today. But his work advocating for environmental justice communities is why he’s here. As an environmental justice activist, Anthony is here advocating for the idea that all people, regardless of race, class, or social status, have the equal right to live in a healthy environment and a safe climate. 

But that’s much more an aspiration than a reality right now. The reality that we have to face right now is that we will not be equal in our suffering when it comes to climate change. And we will not all be equal in our suffering when it comes to coronavirus, either.

Black people, in particular, are on the front lines of both crises. In Chicago, 70 percent of the people who have died from COVID-19 are black, even though black people make up less than 30 percent of the population. In Michigan, 40 percent of COVID-19 deaths are among black people, even though they’re only 14 percent of the population. In Milwaukee county, Wisconsin, black people make up 26 percent of the population -- but 80 percent of coronavirus deaths. 

Meanwhile, scientists on Tuesday found that coronavirus patients are more likely to die if they live in areas with high air pollution. And Black Americans are 75 percent more likely than white people to live near oil and gas facilities. These facilities`spew air pollutants that trigger not only lung problems, but a whole host of other health problems that worsen COVID-19. All this from the pollution we create to heat our homes.

Clearly, COVID-19 and the climate crisis are connected issues. But so are COVID-19 and climate justice: an issue the environmental movement as a whole really needs to do better on. I brought Anthony on today to help us reflect on that. What he says can either make you feel guilty, or it can make you feel motivated. It can make you defensive, or it can make you reflective. You can be sad for yourself, or you can use this moment to act on behalf of populations more vulnerable than you are. The choice is yours. 

Enjoy the chat.

EA: Anthony. Welcome to the podcast. I'm really excited to have you on

ARW: Thank you so much, Emily, love talking to you. It's been years and you're not just one of my favorite climate journalists, but one of my favorite people. So thanks for having me.

EA: Aw thanks, Anthony. I understand that you are coming to us today at a particularly raw moment. Would you mind just explaining that?

ARW: The network that I'm a part of Climate Justice Alliance—and obviously as you stated earlier, speaking for myself here—people that our member organizations are affiliated with, some who I knew personally and some who I knew vicariously, we lost about 10 people over the last three or four days. These are folks who are in areas that were already in crisis before COVID-19 impacted them even more. Places like Mississippi, where people were being turned away for testing and treatment because of their lack of having health care access.

And then yesterday, I got the news that one of my mentors, Sabina, after a very valiant fight with pancreatic cancer for two years, succumbed to a combination of the two.

So s**t has gotten very, very real. This isn't just news stories for us anymore. Those of us who represent frontline communities, environmental justice communities—many of our elders are feeling the impacts of COVID-19. Some have taken off work. Many are self quarantined. And I myself tomorrow, I'm going to get tested as well for COVID-19. So it's a very real moment. It's a heavy moment.

But at the same time, it sounds kind of paradoxical, but I think that it's also a moment for massive opportunity. And I'm really hoping that we can seize this moment as a climate community and as a left movement as well. Because what COVID-19 has really done is put a magnifying glass on everything that wasn't working already. Our economic infrastructure. Our healthcare infrastructure. Our racial justice infrastructure, or lack thereof. The prison systems. Everything is being exposed at once for how inadequate and anemic that it is. And so maybe that represents a silver lining and an opportunity in a paradoxical way.

EA: I'm so sorry. And I'm blown away by that number: 10 people in your network alone, in the Climate Justice Alliance network alone. And I feel like it just, like you said, puts this magnifying glass on what we mean when we say vulnerable communities. It's not just to climate change, it's coronavirus, too.

ARW: Good point. When we think about the climate shock events that really have gotten us speaking about the quintessential threat of climate change, right, we're talking Katrina, obviously, we're talking Maria we're talking Sandy, which, you know, really impacted our home state of New York. We're talking to Harvey, but even you know, ahead of those storms, Right, there were so many things that were already going wrong. And those storms exacerbated the issues that vulnerable populations were already going through.

We know for instance, that even to this day in places in New York City, like Staten Island, there are still public housing units that are connected to diesel gas generators, because the electricity hasn't fully been restored. This is years after Sandy.

One of my mentors, what she said to me was that COVID-19 is a dress rehearsal for the climate apocalypse. And it's up to us to do everything to make sure that that show never actually gets produced, and never sees its first day, its opening day. And I would have to agree with her. She's absolutely right. Because as you just said, communities like that were already in crisis are now close to apocalypse. We're talking about indigenous communities, people indigenous to Turtle Island, where this virus could wipe them out. I mean, that's not hyperbolic, at all. We have context, like with smallpox. And when you talk about the lack of infrastructure and investment in these indigenous communities, who are also many times rural communities w…

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