Author and activist Heather McGhee joins hosts Phil and Grace for the fifth episode of season three. Heather provides keen insight into ‘drained pool’ politics, a core metaphor in her book, The Sum of Us: What Racism Costs Everyone and How We Can Prosper Together, that reveals how the racial zero sum mindset hurts everyone. She presents a compelling picture of how racial inequality cuts across any number of issues that donors may care about, and therefore needs to be deeply considered and addressed in order to be effective in giving. She also describes “the solidarity dividend,” the significant benefits that result when people come together across differences, and she shares her reasons for feeling optimistic about the future.