Welcome to Hell Island Reports, talking to the groups and organisers on the frontlines of the UK's struggle for Trans Rights.
This time, we talk to Trans Liberation Cambridge, an affinity group based in the city. Their links follow:
Twitter: twitter.com/TransLibCam
Instagram: instagram.com/trans.liberation.cambridge/
Queer Radicals Self Defence sessions: instagram.com/p/CuRO5kaMsvd/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
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Follow Hell Island Reports' other work at:
Instagram: instagram.com/hellislandreps/
Substack: hellislandreports.substack.com/
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Music is MINDBREAK.018m by FREE.99:
Bandcamp: xfree99x.bandcamp.com/
Newgrounds: free99.newgrounds.com
Twitter: twitter.com/xfree99x
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TRANSCRIPTION [Machine transcription, apologies for inaccuracy]:
K: This is the Hell Island Reports podcast talking to groups and their organizers on the frontlines of the fight for Trans Rights in the United Kingdom. I'm “K”. And this episode I talk to “A” from the affinity group Trans Liberation Cambridge. Now, before we begin, on the 20th of July, there was a demo at Westminster Magistrates Court in solidarity with political prisoner Sarah Jane Baker, and there likely be more demos against her imprisonment.
K: So do keep your eyes peeled for more details. Trans Liberation Front Bristol are co-hosting a fundraiser for Themselves and Trans Safety Network with Bristol Anarchist Federation with drag and music, including musician Evan Greer at the Exchange on the 28th of August. Now onto Trans Liberation Cambridge.
A: So Trans Liberation Cambridge. First of all, it's an affinity group. And just to give a small, short definition for people who might not know what an affinity group is, so an affinity group is a group of people who come together to organize a campaign on a specific issue. And this kind of group might often exist in a wider network of activists.
A: They could be members of this group, could be from multiple different groups or could be it could be a subset of a larger group. And the point of having this affinity group is to facilitate these people to work together, either to change something, either in a wider group they're part of or in wider society. And what Chelsea does more or less is we organize it, promote protests and actions.
A: We do community building, community building, which includes things like, for example, the clubs swaps that Chelsea has been doing for a while now, the open mic nights, social events. We also monitor local anti trans people, so to speak, including to prevent local institutional capture. We also do solidarity and support for student actions and solidarity and support for some of the London actions, like, for example, on the rock or the happenings with Posy Parker.
K: You talk about monitoring in Cambridge. What what is the situation like in Cambridge? I mean, with the university, but also just in generally in the town.
A: So the thing is, with Cambridge, I think I've heard that from some of trade union pals some good years ago. Some some of them described to Cambridge as being the I like the council, the birthplace, but like a like a strong stronghold. The turf is the military used to call it, because it has a bit of a history when it comes to specific people within politics and the academia that have launched themselves on a platform of either, well, concerns or anti-trans hate, for example.
A: And since it used to be a Cambridge councilor that resigned after the council renewed a basically a fair equality policy around the use of gendered facilities by trans people. But the use of those specific facilities of their gender and she kind of resigned in protest over the inclusive policy that up till then was no and no problem at all.
A: But for mostly no one. She then went on to co-found the LGB Alliance, which is quite interesting, seeing that she is a married straight woman. But, you know, I guess things like that do happen. I mean, there's there's other people and groups who have felt, well, like, for example, because because Cambridge University and it's quite the place of renown.
A: There's people that do like things like, you know, coming here to do certain talks, like for something caffeine stock came to Harvard the Cambridge debater in free speech union. I don't know what the full name of it is. It's called Cambridge University. In short, it's sort of like a debate society. So we did organize with students supporting for that one to do a protest, basically to show that, you know, expressing both sides views when it comes to trans people is really not an okay thing to do.
A: Basically. Other things that have happened, I mean, there has been like for a while there was this thing called the respect my sex campaign or respect my sex if you want my ex, which sounds weird when you say it. I think it makes more sense when it's written. There was this was a group formed between the group Sex Matters founded by me for Start There, the Women's Rights Network, which is a countrywide, let's say, MIT level activism group, trying to push back gender critical anti-trans narratives.
A: And another group called Women Uniting, which was a cross-party group trying to do this similar thing. And it was basically those between like different people from different political parties, including Labor, conservatives, Greens and so on, people who in their particular party may not have been happy about, let's say their political party was necessary at that time, pushing for anti-trans narratives.
A: And they from this campaign to pressure or at least sort of like publicly highlight, like to pressure politicians into into giving into their narrative or then to see if more people agreed with them and or to highlight the politicians that already agreed with their narrative. And but at the time, TLC, that was to counter that by first and foremost well, in sending questions to our local councilors or candidates for council and simply asking them basically about, you know, their support for trans rights.
A: And then, of course, publishing that. So everyone who wants to vote can know what their councilor thinks about trans rights and not pressuring, of course, because, you know, no one can pressure a I mean, no one should be pressuring a local politician into doing one thing or another. But, you know, we should know what the people we vote for think and want to do.
A: And in my opinion, that was quite a good action that TLC did, because we showed very well that the vast majority of the local councilors were either indifferent or supportive of trans rights. That's reassuring trans people and allies within Cambridge that they can safely vote for someone that will not take their rights away when we try to. That might lead to indignity towards trans people.
A: And in the process, it caused a lot of the those who were in that respect my sex campaign to, well, first of all, lose steam and morale because they saw very well that none of them were supportive of their narrative. One single candidate was, but that was insufficient to actually, well, gain anything. And that person actually didn't get any support.
A: Funny enough, the funniest thing to me was when we got the results of the census and it turned out that the ward with which that candidate was in had more trans people than the votes the candidate got.
K: So a lot of that, at least statistically speaking.
A: But yeah.
K: So do you think a lot of the like you called it a stronghold of Terf is but then does a lot of that like academic Terf is not really transfer over into like community in Cambridge like is there a divide between like people coming in and doing debates and talks, giving like very gender critical ideas, But then actually in the town itself, it's a lot more chill than that.
A: Yeah, I mean, the thing is like I personally didn't call it the stronghold of academic TERFism. I've heard that it being called by some pals who have been here for a long, long time. And you are right in that there's that veneer of like, okay, this is like a majority opinion. You know, they're coming. They come here and they start, you know, doing these like academy academic debates and they want to position themselves as being the commonsense position when you are very, very much right.
A: Like most people in town, I would say would not have an opinion to start with when it comes to trans people in general. And in my experience, most people, if they do have an opinion, it tends to be like neutral to positive. Like very few people share those like very specific ideological points that people who align themselves with, let's say, gender critical transphobia.
A: Very few people have those those ideological points in mind.
K: Have you seen a shift in Cambridge? And like with the current panic around trans people, is that been like a shift in Cambridge around those views or is it still most people are quite neutral on the issue?
A: Honestly, I think most of the changes that happen to people's attitudes don't necessarily come from the academics. They mostly influence the people in the higher strata of society. So for example, Kathleen Stock or even Helen Joyce and I'll be coming back to the Helen Choice bit in a bit, you know, talking either in, let's say a big paper or writing, you know, article or fancy articles or even coming to have talks with other people who go to these kind of debates because, you know, most people won't go actually, most people won't even have money to have membership to, let's say, the Cambridge Debates Union.
A: Right. So your average person from Cambridge doesn't tend to listen to these kind of things rather, most people will be influenced by broad newspapers like The Daily Mail and even other kinds of newspapers, because even the Cambridge Independent, for example, has at one time published a more let's let's call it a trans skeptical article. So, yeah, those those kind of things tend to influence people rather than these kind of debates.
A: It's rather more like down to earth news and tabloids. And if there has been a slight change in attitudes, I'd say over the years, from my personal experience, I think some, but I think it's mostly the people who already were hateful to start with have been emboldened to show it more visibly. And I think some people have been scared away from being allies because some sometimes allies do get hate.
A: Then sometimes people, if they're not invested enough in being allies, they will feel the brunt of, let's say, you know, they they stop losing sight of, you know, why are the allies, because they're getting hate and they don't understand, you know, what they're achieving. So they can kind of stop being as vocal. Because if you remember, like a couple of years ago, everyone used to do that thing when they would put pronouns in their bio and your emails and or like accounts at work.
A: And then, well, I don't know if that's necessarily the most like strongest allyship, but, you know, that was something. And then people kind of slowly start to remove those because, you know, they just wanted to people to be more quiet about it, which is, you know, at the end of the day, that's slightly sad because those people who, you know, may not be strong allies, but like they were not hateful people.
A: They didn't hold those ideological views that, you know, gender critical people do, for example, or even Far-Right people, there's a big overlap there that even very people do, but they're driven to not be as vocal, that they're just okay with trans people. And then they feel as it feels as if there's less people who are just okay, even though, you know, most of them would not have changed their opinions, that they don't have a greater fear.
A: Like a lot of opinions about trans people to start with. So all coming back to that, like, um, I guess academia is coming because I mentioned Helen Joyce. We did. So this one was in collaboration with the student union. Um, and basically what we did is because this is, this is what's called diversity of tactics, because the student union would not be able to do things like, for example, to cause more severe disruption.
A: Nothing stops us from doing that. So some of, you know, some of us being louder, we're allowed to do that because we are just tun. The student union wasn't able to do that. So, you know, then they're able to bring numbers and, you know, make sure people's safety and we're able to the allow people some of us actually attended Helen Joyce's talk at the time for a combination of reasons, including to assess the situation of what exactly is this right because sometimes you can't even have there's recordings, you might get snipped, parts you might not get to the context of how many people are actually attending these events, what kind of people are attending, you
A: know, what's the chat about? Because anything that's recorded intentionally, you know, tends to be picked and sanitized. I mean, I would, you know, if I wanted to do a PR for a group or a company, I wouldn't, you know, just randomly record myself saying things about it. I would pick, you know, a time and a place and I would pick the topics I'd want to discuss.
A: And yeah, one of the surprises that I had listening to the let's see what was happening in the room, so to speak, was because there was it was framed as if it was a a debate. But it actually the format was more or less of an interview. And actually I'd seen more or less of a book club because the majority of people who attended were people who already either agreed with Helen Joyce or very much held the same views.
A: So some of the local transphobes, um, a small number of students that strongly agreed with Joyce and a few, I guess, academics who were interested in making a networking. And the thing that surprised me about listening to Helen Joyce was how much more hateful she sounded in person than in writing, I think because she doesn't really have, um, I wouldn't call it media training or like she, she's not very good in interviews in controlling what information she gives, and she just talks very honestly, which is a disadvantage to her because her that hate basically comes very transparently out of the way she speaks.
A: Part of what struck me was how she very transparently kind of stated that she was annoyed that she couldn't talk about, you know, bigoted ways about trans people. And now she's so happy that she found a way to do that.
K: That's a lovely thing to say.
A: Yeah. I mean, I'm paraphrasing, of course. Yeah. But it was it was quite shocking to, like, put that together, listening to her and understanding, wait, so this is just like a, like a kid who, um, you know, finds a naughty word and then is still happy that this kid, the kid could just say these naughty words somewhere and one get in trouble.
A: And it's because she was talking about how she introduced the concept of how ostracism is death and how basically she feels that if she can't say what she wants to say, that feels like ostracism and therefore it's like being given a death sentence or something like that, which was just out there. Big brain stuff. I don't know if it was it was it was surreal to listen to that.
A: And honestly, I don't recommend to anyone to subject themselves to that because I did not have a good time listening to her words honestly.
K: No, it's.
A: Always yeah.
K: It's always interesting going in person to something and then like hearing which bits they leave out when they like to put it on YouTube or something on Twitter, like seeing the selected woman minute clips on Twitter and then you go and it's so much more insane.
A: And the thing is right, because I wanted to one of my original intentions was that I want to write down, you know, like sort of because there was a bit of a questions and answers and I wanted to ask some questions to clarify things that I thought, you know, would at least show to the rest of the public some level of, okay, so this is her real opinion on this.
A: But as I was writing things on a notepad trying to formulate okay, she said she said this someone to ask about this, I realized that she was going from topic to topic that was semi unrelated, like, for example, when she suddenly started talking about pedophilia. And in the middle of of all of this, which was quite like a shift of topic, like she started talking about trans people, she started she just inserted a sort of that she doesn't think she should have never said that trans people are pedophiles, but then she keeps this she talks for 10 minutes about pedophilia.
A: And once her points was that apparently she at least to her from her recount of history, it was when with gay liberation it was difficult to actually what was it finally to point out the abusers or pedophiles because it wasn't P.C. to talk about gay pedophiles or something like that. And thing is that I, I had just the previous week or the week before I just read out from Giovanni's book.
A: It's not unusual, a gay and lesbian history of Britain. And I do not recall reading the entire book anything talked about any talk there about how much of a problem they are on political correctness was back in the days when it comes to pointing out abusers or something like that. You know, like it was it was just shocking to hear this like thing that she was trying to construct.
A: But what she's basically trying was show thing to say is that she should be allowed to just point at trans people and say groomer or pedophile or whatever, because I don't know, because basically she thinks that there's a PC culture that won't allow you to to point out the actual abusers when it's really, really not the truth.
K: I mean, we keep seeing that strategy from a lot of like gender critical people of of just sort of throwing everything out in an argument and just talking about like violence and violence against women and like and pedophilia and stuff like that. And then they just throw everything at the wall and you listen and you're not quite sure what you can say about any of it, because where do you even start?
A: Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, it is it is a strategy. So calling your opponent a groomer or abuser or pedophile, when obviously they are not, is a very good strategy because it pulls on specific heartstrings, especially in the UK with the, um, very specific cultural sensitivities around child abuse. When I say this, I mean like specific things that have happened and or the way the public approaches.
A: Yeah. Topics.
K: Yeah. I mean, really the easiest way to insult someone is just give them like Jimmy Savile and then Yeah, yeah. On the, on Helen Joyce's book club, what was the action outside the because it was, it was reported quite widely, especially in places like the Daily Mail about like the masked protesters outside for TLC. What was that what was that action like?
A: It was I mean, I would call it standard demo stuff, chants, um, you know, making the noise, making sure they hear us inside. Because, you know, that's the thing as well. If, if a demo isn't heard, if you are only talking to the people in your own demo, it's not really a demo right at the end of the day, Like if you were to hold a protest in a forest where you would hold speeches to each other, it wouldn't really be a protest.
A: It would just be a party. The effectiveness of a demonstration or protest is that particular people or even a lot of people, you know, will hear you. Disruption is important. So noise was one of the things being as close as possible to where this was being held. So they can very well hear us, you know, banging pots and pans, chanting all the fun stuff.
K: And do you think you were hurt in the actually inside the debate hall?
A: Uh, yes. I think the actually on the recording it might be audible quite a few times when specific pots and pans were. And I think I think actually if I remember correctly, Helen Joyce kind of paused at one point because it was getting very loud. So I would say that was that was effective. And then after putting that message across of, you know, we know you're here, we know what you're saying, and just say, no, we don't agree.
A: So, you know, you can't you can't just come and, you know, seem to say these things and just, you know, not be challenged basically. And thing is right because the the the general vibe I get from these kind of events is they always say, oh, well, you know, we invite people to actually have a healthy debate and, you know, have a discussion, all these things.
A: But the thing is, right there was from the start, the first thing that's that was said because they probably saw some queer people that were in the in the room and they said, oh, you know, if you're just here to wave trans flags, that you might as well leave. And, you know, when you start with those kind of things of, Oh, if this is your political opinion, please leave, then, you know, it's not really a you not inviting people to discuss it anyway.
A: Second of all, you know, inviting someone to discuss when the rhetoric is very caustic, especially, you know, towards a minority group, it's not really something most people can and would do. It's a difficult situation to put oneself, you know, to discuss when your identity and existence are under attack. To some people it may be a theoretical discussion, but, you know, to trans people it isn't because, you know, it's you are the target of that rhetoric.
A: We can imagine, you know, trying to talk in front of a ton of people. And your opponent insists, well, the debate over the topic is whether or not you are a groomer and you're the one being under attack. Your opponent doesn't get that kind of flack. Your opponent just gets to freely make assumptions and use hyperbole and, you know, tug on heartstrings and what they call common sense to paint you as someone who is to be feared and someone who is doing things wrong just for existing, you know what's funny?
A: The person who organized that, what's his name? Oh, mad because he was he was just appointed to an interesting position some time ago. So he was she was invited by I first met a fellow of Granville and Caius. So this is public knowledge, by the way, a professor I have. I've met fellow Granville and Caius, invited what hosted the talk, and later on, I think she got the point that a position within the HRC.
A: And then later on there was discussions about appointing him as some sort of, like, free speech czar by one of the was it the Education Ministry or something like that. So basically you might see this pattern where someone launches themselves into this kind of career of, okay, I'm the one who actually opens up the, you know, the talk, the discussions.
A: I'm not saying, you know, I'm with one thing, one position or the other. I'm just inviting just facilitating a discussion and then gets appointed to this in that position. Um, and launches themselves into, you know, a kind of career.
K: Basically a brief. Ahmed is now a commissioner for the HRC after being appointed by Kemi Badenoch earlier in 2023 and in June of 2023, he was appointed as the Director for Freedom of Speech and Academic Freedom at the Office for Students.
A: The funny thing about all of these ones, right, because so all of these ones that we did in collaboration with the Students union, I would say, you know, this kind of collaboration was very flexible in that either we organized and, you know, they came to our kind of thing and we of course, we did it as a joint venture, so to speak, or they organized.
A: And we also brought our numbers and helped with stewarding and so on. So we kind of like flexibly organize between the two groups. The funny thing is, a lot of the times when we when it was covered or when specific anti-trans actors would talk about us, when I say us, I mean us and the students. They would always label the entire group of protesting people as students, young students, specifically, even when it came to the people who were in the room, by the way, listening to or the last time when the walkout was being done, we were labeled as being like very young people or students.
A: But till has members all the way from, you know, from students age to like forties and we are all active in organizing and doing stuff. But there's a narrative there that's trying to be struck off because there's a specific narrative, like the privileged young students who doesn't understand the world and is just like, you know, just having a tantrum because this is a used, often used words for people who do activism for for trans rights that we're trying tantrums.
A: It's a form of infantilizing to basically suggest that we have no understanding of, you know, what we're actually doing, that we're just being, you know, offended snowflakes to use an old Internet term, you know, that, you know, and that also this is just the students that it is that that doesn't concern the working class people of Cambridge, even though some of the TLC know quite a lot are working class.
A: You know, it was it was and always will be a town and gown action because it concerns everyone in Cambridge. And you know it's you know, it's frankly insulting to hear at this level of infantilizing and that even the students would know what they're protesting or to assume whether or not the students protesting are privileged or not. You know, it's it's frankly insulting, but they use this narrative to de-legitimize their position.
K: MM Yeah. I mean, I guess that's like quite a wide narrative. I mean, you even see that narrative with like, like ecological protests, like, like just a hotel where it's is protest. It's like students and I mean even teenagers who are out there like doing s**t that adults don't, and then they just get slated in the Daily Mail for like, you know, these kids don't even know what they're on about, whereas it's sort of their futures and everyone's futures that that they're doing this for.
K: But they just get swept under the rug for, as you say, throwing a tantrum rather than. Yeah, yeah. They have the.
A: Irony of it is like I think you might have seen that action done by Western Oxford. Yes. Against something talk with a protester glued themselves to the ground in front of her and but it didn't do anything else. Just stood there as a sign of defiance, basically. They absolutely got like infantilized in the worst way possible. And when they found out that this person was related to a climate activist, I think they definitely use that a lot.
A: But the thing is, right when it comes to demos, especially those kind of demos where you are, your face will start appearing, let's say in the newspaper. Some people use the fact that they have, let's say, more privilege or less disadvantage than other people within their affinity group to do demos. Like, that's kind of the point. Like the people who are already at a massive disadvantage shouldn't be the people who should do these kind of actions because they put themselves at risk like you wouldn't do.
A: You wouldn't want to force people who suffer racism to do anti-racist action. Like you wouldn't say, Oh, you know, when aren't they doing it? You wouldn't want to force them to be the ones exclusively doing it. You'd want people who also, you know, allies to also do or more privileged people to also do that action because they wouldn't suffer, let's say, from, you know, actual racists trying to, you know, harm them as much.
A: MM You would use that privilege as a shield because otherwise, you know, if we would only fight for our own personal, let's say, well we want to fight our own personal oppression, then we end up, first of all, not getting a lot done because, you know, when you're a minority, it's kind of harder to fight. Second of all, we would achieve nothing on a larger scale.
A: The only way to achieve change is through strong allyship and intersectionality and understanding where the strengths lie and whether you can balance, you know, people's disadvantages and people's strengths or privileges like of course, that person took upon themselves to do that because they knew they might suffer less than someone who, let's say, you know, was already in a much, much less privileged position and would get a lot more flak.
A: You know, if they did it.
K: Mm. I mean we've talked a lot about like TLC's demo actions, I, you recently had an open mic night if you want to like just talk briefly about that and how that went and like what other, what other causes and and actions TLC take on.
A: Well, community building, I would say it's a very community building is a very important aspect because at the end of the day, you know, you may organize as many demos as you want. You might do direct action, but if you don't have any place to come home to any community, to you don't feel safe and you don't have anywhere to recharge.
A: And also community building creates resilience. Some of the things we do well, I mean, like you mentioned and like I mentioned open mic nights and I'd say those those go quite well. Everything from spoken word poetry to just singing deejaying since all sorts of people come to it. And it's great to see like this mix of mix, the people that like our events will do it and should do one maybe next month for Club swap.
A: This is more or less we've got like a well, we were in combination with some other groups, we've got some people that we get to donate to posts and then people can either donate some of their wardrobe and get some back. People seem to appreciate this kind of thing. I imagine it's like a sort of like a twist thrift store, but without necessarily have to pay anything.
A: It just come with the clothes you don't need and then take some that you might feel you need, that someone else might need yours. But rather than gather around, we've also been in well organized with other groups events for the Trans Day of Remembrance and unfortunately had to organize the vigil for bioenergy. We thought it was important to hold this also as a wake up call to our allies and also to every single trans person in Cambridge that we should be looking towards, taking steps towards building community and, you know, resisting what's happening because else these kind of things happen.
A: I was moved by the number of people that attended the Cambridge one. I didn't expect like more than, I don't know, 30, 40 people to attend the test. But there were hundreds. And I was quite surprised when people just started pouring in and we didn't really know where to put everyone to speak. But yeah, it was it was quite moving.
A: The number of people coming, people spoke that have never held them. I can come in their entire life. They specifically came because they said they wanted to like it. So now we're never a situation where either they want to, you know, they want to get involved and do things. They don't want to just, you know, stay in the closet forever and be afraid, because that's the thing as well.
A: People are seeing other people being supportive and caring matters When you do not have community, you are pushed into the closet and you do feel like the entire world is against you. And you know, even if the entire world statistically would be against you, let's say having that community next to you, it makes you feel like you can fight the world, that you're not alone.
A: That was the worst thing in in this world is to is to be alone.
K: Yeah. No, the the outpouring around the vigils for Brianna was very moving. Like, yeah, like I went down to the one in London. Unlike just the amount of people that, that was like as much as like, you know, you wake up in the morning and steal the show on Twitter, like, just seeing that like an entire street filled with, like, hundreds of people.
A: Yep. Yeah, that's and it's a hard one as well, right? Because creating community is I mean the word that's the phrase itself is, is vague. Keep it intentionally vague because a lot of things can mean building community anything including like holding a weekly coffee. And we do have members that do that kind of thing.
A: And to other groups, they have like a weekly coffee meet. There's is also community building. You find people that you vibe with and you know, you know, the have a place where you can spend time and feel well included in. And from there you can build up a network of people that you know, when you need to do something, you can do something with.
K: So what is TLC doing now?
A: So let's see. Um, I mean, we are planning to start with more of those social activities. The closed shop is primarily one we thought about because last time we had one and it was a great success in gathering people and especially especially gathering people in a relaxed environment where, you know, we can start thinking about, oh, okay, we could them do this like, for example, arts and crafts.
A: We've done that at one point making banners or just making badges or, you know, small groups of people who want to do things like knitting. We did that as well at one point. It's important to see, you know, what people would like to do and from there kind of organize. And it's also easier to do that when you're in a more relaxed environment, like the clothes swap compared to if you try to that, say, network at the demo where everyone feels like there's a purpose they have to do now.
A: And, you know, it's it's a difficult environment actually, you know, have they're going to chat with people of what those. Oh so we've also been, like I said, supporting and being solidarity with some of the London actions. And we will continue to do that as much as we have the energy to do. So we are hoping that's enough.
A: People will get enough groups and hundred more will gather to do. I guess I guess I would call it like a big networking event at one point. So so we can, you know, find out how many of us are willing to actually, you know, put ourselves out there and do something about those issues. Find us on Instagram, Twitter, follow us, see what events we do.
A: Um, and you know, hang around when we have some events.
K: You know? Thank you for that. Thank you for speaking with me.
A: Not a problem.
K: And if you ever want to come back, and plug anything else you're doing, that's more than fine.
A: So thank you very much for having me on and I appreciate what you're doing. And yeah, I'll contact you if there's more.
K: All right. Thank you. Thank you again to A and their comrades from Trans Liberation Cambridge that currently running queer radical self-defense sessions every Tuesday at 7 p.m. with more details, as well as social media handles for all of TLC stuff in the show, notes are opening Music is MINDBREAK.018m by Free 99 on Bandcamp, NewGrounds, and Twitter. Links in the show notes.
K: Thank you for listening to Hell Island. More reports soon.
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