Joe talks to the iconic Mary Haddock-Staniland about what to do when someone you love comes out as trans and Joe and Pauline revisit the rocky ride that was his own coming out.

What happens when you're driving along to a lovely holiday spot and suddenly your child says, "So, I think I'm transgender..."?

Joseph Stockhausen was 15 years old when he came out as trans to his mother Pauline.

Now 22, they both remember that moment a little differently.

"I was screaming in my head going, 'OK, this is the moment where you have to be awesome. You cannot fuck this up'," said Pauline, "I came away going. Good job. Yes. Tick, tick, tick. Awesome work."

"She just said, 'OK'," said Joe, "I didn't even realize until that moment how much I was hoping that she would give me a little more than OK. I immediately just felt disappointment."

Mary Haddock-Staniland has become a well-known advocate on transgender issues. She made headlines over the issue of retail outlets providing accessible changing rooms for transgender customers.

But her own journey hasn't been easy.

"I wouldn't for a moment say that I'm a role model, especially if you see me out on Ponsonby Road of an evening, that you follow the footsteps of, but learn from the hard knocks that I've taken and the lessons that I've learned and try not to let that happen in your family," said Haddock-Staniland.

"My number one, go to that. I advise parents who are talking to this topic or having children come to them to want to understand more is just sit and listen and be present with a conversation that. I suppose it is difficult because this is a lot that's sitting out there."

Useful links:

• Rainbow Youth Inside Out: A friendly and accessible learning resource to help increase understanding and support of sex, gender and sexuality diversity, so we can all belong.
• Gender Minorities Aotearoa: Gender Minorities Aotearoa is a nationwide transgender organisation. It is run by and for transgender people; including binary and non-binary, intersex, and irawhiti takatāpui.
• Outline: A peer support service between transgender kiwis -
• Pronouns: An international resource about what pronouns are, their use, and other inclusive language -
• Being Proud: Stories of parents with transgender children, and important first steps.

Go to this episode on rnz.co.nz for more details