Hope in Hell

At 12 years old, Michael became a young carer. Today he is Regional Director for the North at Practice Plus Group, overseeing healthcare in prisons.

Growing up in Blackhall, a pit village in East Durham, Michael’s world changed when his parents divorced and his mum was diagnosed with MS. He paid the bills, did the shopping, learned to cook and looked after his mum and younger brother, while school became his sanctuary. After losing his mum at 16, he left school with no GCSEs, coped through heavy drinking and moved between friends on very different paths.

A second chance at sixth form, a job as an NHS data entry clerk on £10k a year and a lot of hard toil took him from hospital analyst to commissioning healthcare in North East prisons, and on to leading prison healthcare services today.

Gary and Tom talk with Michael about resilience, making your own luck, why a title doesn’t earn respect, keeping it real as a leader, and his plans to give back to young carers.

“There’s always hope in something.”

Chapters

00:00 Introduction

00:35 Growing up in Blackhall, a pit village in the 1980s

02:07 Divorce, Mum's illness and becoming a young carer at 12

08:52 Living with MS, running a house and forging Mum's signature

11:41 School as a sanctuary

14:38 Losing Mum and three very different groups of friends

20:46 A sliding-doors moment: into the NHS

25:55 Primary care trusts and healthcare in prisons

28:05 Michael's first time inside a prison

31:04 Drive, fear and making your own luck

34:10 Regional Director today

35:55 "The harder I work, the luckier I get"

40:50 Leadership: a title doesn't earn respect

43:54 The next chapter: giving back to young carers

46:25 Healthcare behind the walls and respect for nurses

49:32 The paper boy from Blackhall

51:54 Tom's closing words

Hope in Hell is a podcast of real stories of hope, resilience and change.

#HopeInHell #Podcast #YoungCarers #Resilience #PrisonHealthcare #NHS #Leadership #NorthEast #CountyDurham

Part three of this Hope in Hell special brings the series to a close by asking what needs to change if prisons are to become safer, more effective places for both the people who live in them and the people who work in them.

With Prison Officers’ Association National Executive Committee members Dave and Phil, the conversation reflects on the reality of a prison system facing increasingly complex pressures. Organised crime, drones, contraband, violence, mental health, addiction and chronic understaffing all form part of an environment in which Prison Officers are being asked to manage more risk with fewer resources.

But this episode is about more than the problems facing the prison estate. It looks at what those pressures mean for the people inside it: the cumulative impact of violence and trauma on officers and their families, the challenges of supporting prisoners with complex needs, and the limitations of a system that can too easily become focused on containment rather than change.

Gary and Rodney bring lived experience to the discussion around rehabilitation, highlighting the importance of relationships, therapeutic support and credible role models in helping people confront the behaviours and circumstances that brought them into prison. The group also considers whether better allocation, smaller units and more targeted support could create environments where both safety and rehabilitation have a greater chance of succeeding.

Running through the conversation is a broader question about what we want prisons to achieve. If the aim is to reduce reoffending, protect the public and give people a genuine opportunity to change, then staffing, support, infrastructure and rehabilitation cannot be treated as separate issues.

Despite the seriousness of the challenges, the final episode is ultimately about the possibility of improvement. It recognises the Prison Officers who continue to make a difference in extremely difficult circumstances, the value of lived experience, and the importance of identifying what works and giving it the support needed to succeed.

Topics covered in this episode:

• Security, organised crime and drones - The changing threats facing prisons and the resources needed to respond.

• Violence and safety - The pressures on staff and prisoners within increasingly difficult environments.

• Mental health and addiction -The challenge of supporting complex needs within an overstretched prison system.

• Rehabilitation and lived experience - The role of relationships, therapeutic support and credible lived experience in helping people change.

• Officer trauma and wellbeing - The long-term impact of violence, stress and repeated exposure to traumatic incidents.

• Investment and reform - Why staffing, infrastructure, targeted support and good practice all need sustained investment.

• Finding hope within the system - The people, relationships and approaches that show meaningful change is still possible.

Part three brings the series back to the central idea behind Hope in Hell: prisons face deep and interconnected challenges, but with the right people, support and investment, there is still room for progress.

Part two of this three-part Hope in Hell special continues the conversation with Prison Officers’ Association National Executive Committee members Dave Ferry and Phil, alongside Gary and Rodney, bringing together decades of frontline prison experience and lived experience of the criminal justice system.

The discussion picks up with the importance of unity, experience and relationships among prison staff, and how the loss of those foundations can leave inexperienced officers increasingly exposed. The group explores how reduced training, limited mentoring and a lack of experienced colleagues can leave new recruits entering extremely challenging environments without the support or preparation they need.

That vulnerability also creates wider risks. The conversation examines coercion and corruption, and how prisoners with time to observe staff can identify isolation, weakness or a lack of support. Rather than blaming individual officers, Dave and Phil argue that staff are too often being placed into situations where the system itself is setting them up to fail.

The focus then moves beyond the prison gate. Rodney describes the difficulties of supporting people who are released at short notice without sufficient preparation, information, housing or links to community services. Gary reflects on similar experiences through his own work supporting people leaving custody. Together, they question what chance somebody has of successfully rebuilding their life when both the prison system and the services awaiting them outside are under such pressure.

The group looks back at the pre-release courses, offending behaviour programmes, workshops and resettlement opportunities that once played a much larger role in preparing people for life after prison. They contrast this with a system increasingly focused on containment, asking whether simply locking people away without addressing the reasons behind offending ultimately does little more than postpone future crime.

The conversation then turns towards possible solutions. Smaller and more manageable prison units, better training, experienced staff, improved pay, properly funded workshops and meaningful rehabilitation all feature prominently. Dave and Phil argue that sustained investment in staff and infrastructure is essential if prisons are to become safer and more effective for everyone.

Topics covered in this episode:

• Training, experience and staff support : How reduced training, mentoring and experienced leadership affect new and existing prison officers.
• Safety, coercion and corruption : How understaffing, isolation and weakened staff relationships can create additional vulnerabilities within prisons.
• Release, resettlement and rehabilitation : The consequences of releasing people without sufficient preparation, housing, support or meaningful pathways back into the community.
• Purposeful activity and breaking the cycle of offending : The decline of workshops, education, pre-release programmes and other opportunities designed to help people change.
• Investment in prisons and prison staff : Pay, staffing, infrastructure, recruitment and the resources required to create safer and more effective prisons.
• The scale and structure of modern prisons : Whether large prison “warehouses” make rehabilitation, relationships and effective management more difficult.
• Privatisation and prison infrastructure : Questions around privately operated prisons, outsourced services and where investment within the prison estate should go.
• What could work differently : Smaller cohorts, better use of experience, different regimes and lessons from approaches that have resulted in lower violence and self-harm.

Part two moves the discussion from what is going wrong towards what needs to change. If prisons are expected to protect the public, rehabilitate people and provide a safe workplace for staff, what investment, structure and support are required to give both officers and prisoners a realistic chance of succeeding?

Part one of this three-part Hope in Hell special brings together lived experience and the frontline perspective of the Prison Officers’ Association to examine the growing crisis inside Britain’s prisons.

Gary and Rodney are joined by POA National Executive Committee members Phil and Dave, who draw on decades of experience as prison officers to describe how chronic understaffing, overcrowding, ageing infrastructure and years of underinvestment have transformed life inside the prison system.

The conversation explores the loss of experienced officers, high staff turnover and the impact this has had on relationships between officers and prisoners. Where officers once had time to get to know the people on their wings, build trust and defuse difficult situations, many are now working under intense pressure simply trying to keep establishments functioning safely.

From the prisoner perspective, Gary and Rodney reflect on how dramatically regimes have changed. Education, workshops, employment and meaningful activity have been reduced or disrupted, while prisoners can spend long periods locked behind their doors with little certainty about when they will next get a shower, association or access to support. The result, they argue, is frustration and instability that increases the risk of violence, self-harm and conflict for everyone inside.

The discussion also looks at overcrowding, including the return of two or even three people sharing cells designed for one, and questions whether a system focused primarily on containment can realistically prepare people for rehabilitation and eventual release.

As the episode develops, the conversation turns to recruitment, training and leadership. Dave and Phil describe a prison service where inexperienced officers can quickly find themselves mentoring new recruits or moving into management, while many experienced staff have left the profession. That loss of institutional knowledge, they argue, leaves both staff and prisoners more vulnerable.

Topics covered in this episode:

• The crisis in the prison system underinvestment, overcrowding and failing infrastructure.
• Staffing, recruitment and retention shortages, burnout, low morale and the loss of experienced officers.
• The breakdown of prison regimes less time out of cell, reduced access to education, work and purposeful activity.
• Relationships between officers and prisoners how reduced staffing and continuity make trust, communication and de-escalation harder.
• Safety, violence and mental health the impact of confinement, frustration and instability on both prisoners and staff.
• Rehabilitation and progression whether prisons are still giving people a realistic opportunity to change and move forward.
• Release, recall and the wider justice system the pressure on probation and the risk of people being released without adequate preparation or support.
• Leadership, experience and the future of the service concerns about training, rapid promotion and the erosion of institutional knowledge.

Part one ultimately asks a difficult question: if prisons are increasingly unable to provide safety, stability, rehabilitation or meaningful human relationships, how can either prisoners or the people responsible for looking after them be expected to find hope within the system?

What happens when former prison officers and inmates sit down, listen properly, and talk honestly?In this final episode of Rodney’s Hope in Hell interviews, Rodney, Gary, Tom and Len reflect on crime, prison culture, rehabilitation and the missed opportunities within the system. They discuss why prison officers often never get the time to understand the men they work with, why policy makers need to hear lived experience, and why the glamour sometimes attached to crime hides a much darker reality.Rodney’s message is clear: there is another pathway.A powerful closing conversation about accountability, regret, hope and change.

Former lifer Rodney opens up about prison violence, trauma, rage, survival and the moment everything changed.From riots, segregation units and violent confrontations with officers… to therapy, rehabilitation and helping others change their lives - this is one of the rawest Hope in Hell conversations yet.In this episode:• Growing up with trauma and anger• Prison violence from both sides of the door• Why “us vs them” culture fuels conflict• The reality of life sentences• Trauma-informed prisons• Why respect mattered more than fear• The moment Rodney decided to change• Why many prisoners are still “children in adult bodies”This isn’t a glamorised crime story. It’s an honest conversation about consequence, accountability, survival and redemption.

If this episode made you think differently about prisons, trauma or rehabilitation, subscribe and join the conversation.

“Stop. Look. Listen.”

That’s the advice Rodney would give his younger self.In Part 2, he describes losing control after his father’s death, serving a life sentence, navigating prison politics, and confronting the reality of the harm he caused.

He also speaks about the moment something shifted - when doing good felt different to being feared.From rowing thousands of miles on a gym machine for charity to studying behind bars, Rodney found purpose where he once sought status.

This episode is honest, reflective and challenging. It asks whether prisons educate in the right way, why young men are groomed into crime, and what it really means to take responsibility.

If you believe change is impossible, listen to this first.

A Curious Matter Production

https://curiousmatter.co.uk

“If you’ve never lived it, it’s hard to explain - but it felt like belonging.”

Rodney’s story isn’t about crime for the sake of it. It’s about what happens when trauma goes unspoken, emotions are buried, and violence becomes a language. In this episode of Hope in Hell, he talks openly about his childhood, the pull of identity and reputation, and how prison life both hardened and eventually reshaped him.

The conversation moves through fear, masculinity and survival, before turning towards responsibility, recovery and the importance of seeing real examples of change within communities. It’s a powerful reminder that people don’t start out wanting to cause harm - but they can end up there when no other path feels visible.

This episode asks difficult questions about punishment, rehabilitation and what society chooses to invest in. 

A Curious Matter Production

https://curiousmatter.co.uk

Wearing the Mask of Fearlessness, Hope in Hell, prison podcast UK, childhood trauma, adverse childhood experiences, trauma and violence, masculinity and fear, false respect, prison life UK, life sentence story, criminal justice system UK, rehabilitation, restorative justice, youth crime UK, ex offender story, HMP Wormwood Scrubs, HMP Deerbolt, HMP Acklington, HMP Low Newton, HMP Garth, HMP Frankland, football in prison, sport and rehabilitation, trauma recovery, breaking the cycle of crime

What happens when you want to go to prison… and the system never lets you leave?

In this powerful episode of Hope in Hell, Ricky tells the unfiltered story of growing up surrounded by violence, being drawn into crime from childhood, and receiving an IP(Imprisonment for Public Protection) sentence that changed his life forever.

Raised in the North East, Ricky was exposed to prison culture before he was even a teenager. Violence felt normal. Prison felt inevitable. What he didn’t expect was an indefinite sentence that would follow him long after release, through strict licence conditions, recalls, mental health struggles, and the constant fear of being sent back inside.

Ricky speaks candidly about:

• Growing up where violence was everyday life
• Wanting to go to prison – and deeply regretting it
• Life inside some of the UK’s most dangerous prisons
• The psychological toll of IP sentences
• Addiction, recall, and the trauma of loss
• Finding purpose, redemption, and saving lives through fitness

Now a husband, father of four, and founder of RuthlessFitness, Ricky has helped transform hundreds of lives, both in person and online. His story is raw, uncomfortable, and deeply human – but it is also one of hope.

This episode shines a light on the real impact of IPsentences, the failures of the justice system, and what rehabilitation actually looks like when it works.

⚠️ Content warning: This episode contains discussions of violence, prison life, mental health, suicide, and substance misuse.

Dan’s story is one of wild partying, chaos, denial - but what does it take to finally change?

For Dan, it was waking up in a police cell after crashing his car whilst heavily intoxicated—with his children in the back. That moment destroyed the last of his denial… but also became the start of an entirely new life.

In this episode of Hope in Hell, Dan speaks with astonishing honesty about:

• Growing up craving acceptance
• Heavy drinking, drugs, and the thrill of chaos
• The mental health spiral during lockdown
• Suicide attempts, homelessness, and losing everything
• The lifeline offered by AA, Renew, and Liaison & Diversion
• Rebuilding relationships and finding purpose in helping others break free from addiction

It’s a powerful reminder that recovery is possible, even when everything seems lost.

If you know someone who needs hope, share this with them.

A Curious Matter Production

#HopeInHellPodcast #HopeDiesLast #LivedExperience #RecoveryJourney #Rehabilitation #MentalHealthMatters #AddictionRecovery #LeadershipThroughAdversity #EmpathyInAction #SocialImpact #HumanResilience