In this episode, Sarah Morton and Ailsa Cook, authors of 'How do you know if you’re making a difference?’, speak to Jess Miles about the challenges of tackling complex issues and trying to achieve change in the public services.

They discuss why and how public services need to measure and demonstrate impact in different ways and the impact of the cost of living crisis.

Find out more about the book: https://policy.bristoluniversitypress.co.uk/how-do-you-know-if-you-are-making-a-difference

Intro music: Cold by yoitrax | @yoitrax

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