Giselle, Iulia, and Dalibor are joined by Elisabeth Braw, Senior Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and expert on "grayzone" warfare (warfare below the kinetic threshhold), to discuss Finland and Sweden's pivot towards NATO application and how Finland and Sweden combat neighboring Russian "grayzone aggression". Other topics include where Finland and Sweden would fit into a perceived "East" versus "West" divide in NATO; how NATO compares to other European institutions and cooperative frameworks (both existing and those imagined by French President Macron); and the importance of societal resilience in combatting grayzone aggression.

Show notes: "The Defender's Dilemma: Identifying and Deterring Gray-Zone Aggression" by Elisabeth Braw; "The Ghost of Olof Palme: How Support for the Kurds Is Complicating Sweden’s NATO Accession" by Elisabeth Braw; "Sweden, NATO, Turkey, and Unexpected Parliamentary Turbulence" by Elisabeth Braw