With Michelle on a mission in Melbourne and David wallowing in the sea of information flowing out of Ukraine, this week we are taking the opportunity to bring your our interview with Melbourne journo Greg Muller. Greg is the brains behind the podcast "Motherlode", an examination of how a group of Melbourne teenagers back in the 90s, using nothing more Commodore 64s and dial-up-modems, nearly brought governments to their knees and made Australia the centre of the cyber universe. We chat with Greg about how he came across the story, his time with the players on both sides of the law, and how a young guy with the handle Mannix went on to change the world. If you want to know where Julian Assange started, this interview and the Motherlode podcast is definitely not to be missed.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.