Secrets We Keep

The forensic scientist who tested the evidence which is crucial to the prosecution’s case today took the stand.

Anna-Marie Ashley from Path West, detailed in painfully intricate detail of how she extracted the DNA from the Karrakatta rape victim’s intimate swabs, which revealed DNA which we now know is Bradley Edwards’ - for the first time.

She also tested Ciara Glennon’s fingernail samples - the crucial piece of evidence which the prosecution say links the Karrakatta rape, which Bradley Edwards has pleaded guilty to, with the murder of Ciara Glennon.

It was an extremely scientific, and detail driven day in court, luckily, forensic DNA expert Brendan Chapman joined Natalie and Tim in the studio to help us try to understand the process of DNA extraction.

Brendan’s informative introduction into DNA is a must-listen for those of us following the trial, because we’ve been warned - it’s only going to get more complicated, especially when the defence take their turn cross examining the evidence.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Forensic pathologist Dr Clive Cooke told the court during his fourth day on the stand that Jane Rimmer and Ciara Glennon suffered similar injuries on their necks and hands, and that they both likely died as a result of having their necks cut with a knife.

That information isn’t new to the trial, but as Tim Clarke explains in this episode, it’s significant because it’s the first time an expert witness has been asked - and explained - injuries inflicted on both women as a collective.

Criminal defence lawyer Damien Cripps joins the Claremont in Conversation team to discuss why this is significant, as well as throw some questions about the other piece of evidence that Dr Cooke also provided today - that there’s no evidence to suggest that Ciara Glennon was sexually assaulted before her murder.

As Damien and Tim explain, if the prosecution are going to present the similarities in the two murder cases, the defence would likely highlight the differences in the murders with the other cases the accused Claremont Serial Killer Bradley Edwards has admitted to.

Namely, that Bradley Edwards has admitted to two sexual attacks - the Huntingdale attack and the Karrakatta rape - and witnesses over the last two days have told the court there’s no evidence to suggest Jane or Ciara were sexually assaulted before their murders.

Join Natalie Bonjolo, Damien Cripps and Tim Clarke as they take you through day 34 of the Claremont Serial Killings trial.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We’ve already been told Jane Rimmer and Ciara Glennon fought for their lives.

But what they went through in the moments before their deaths hasn't been spoken about in great detail, until today.

On day 33, that was made a little clearer by the testimony of pathologist Dr Clive Cooke.

He revealed there was no evidence to suggest she was raped before she was murdered.

During his third day on the stand, Dr Cooke said while there was no evidence of sexual assault, Jane’s body was so badly decomposed that it couldn’t be completely ruled out.

He also couldn’t categorically point to a cause of death for Jane, but suffocation and a cut to the throat also can’t be ‘ruled out’.

Dr Cooke was present both Jane and Ciara’s post-mortems. He detailed the large defensive wounds both women had on their bodies in detail, explaining that a sharp object would have inflicted them.

He’s also appearing on the stand as an expert witness to analyse pathologist Dr Karin Margolius’ notes - she carried out the autopsies on both women.

As Alison Fan explains in this podcast, with the hindsight and technology of 23 years, Dr Cooke was able to find what he said was a flaw in Dr Margolius’ notes.

He said a note about Ciara Glennon receiving a blow to the head shortly before her death was wrong. The ‘fracture’ Dr Margolius spoke about was - what he said - a pre-existing, natural condition. That was found after Ciara’s skull was re-examined in 2013, three years after Dr Margolius’ death.

Tim Clarke, Alison Fan and Natalie Bonjolo discuss the revelations made on Day 33 of WA’s trial of the century.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Before Day 31’s evidence in the Claremont Serial Killings trial could be heard, Justice Stephen Hall issues a temporary suppression order on all details regarding the post mortems of Jane Rimmer and Ciara Glennon, including any injuries and the causes of death.

Justice Hall said the suppression was made at the request of the victim’s families.

The suppression order was put in place just before evidence from the pathologist who carried out the post mortems of Jane Rimmer and Ciara Glennon was read out to the court.

Dr Karin Margolius died from cancer in 2010, so her evidence is restricted to the reports she made during the two women's autopsies.

It leaves us with the question. Will we find out the caue of death of Jane and Ciara?

This left court reporters from every media outlet with not a lot to write about, except that a ban had been put in place.

As Tim Clarke explains, media outlets and their lawyers have put in a submission to the court to have access to these details eventually. Just how much detail Justice Hall allows to be broadcast is to be determined.

One important note, which Justice Hall stressed, is that the details discussed in court today didn’t stop at just the media. Anyone from the public who was present in the packed court room was also banned from broadcasting on social media, even talking about the details discussed in court.

Tim Clarke explains the penalties which could arise from a breach of this order.

Joined by forensic scientist Brendan Chapman, we take you through the inner workings of a forensic lab, why dental records are so important and answer some of your questions.

 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It has been revealed for the first time that Ciara Glennon may have been struck on the back of her head in the moments before her death.

The blow may have stunned, or rendered her semi-conscious.

This information we can bring to you now, because late on day 32 of the Claremont Serial Killings trial, Justice Stephen Hall lifted the suppression order put in place the day before, which had banned all details about Jane Rimmer and Ciara Glennon’s autopsies being broadcast to the public.

After an application by Seven West Media, and negotiations with the prosecution, an order was made to be able to publish limited details from the two murdered womens’ post-mortems.

In this information, was the revelation that Ciara had a small fracture to her skull, which pathologist Dr Karin Margolius said was likely to have been inflicted by a sharp object shortly before her death.

As Tim Clarke and Alison Fan explain, the injuries suffered to both Jane and Ciara extend further than the ‘neck defects’. They had injuries consistent with ‘a boxer’s stance’, which pathologist Clive Cooke called ‘classic self-defence wounds.’

As for their cause of death, It’s likely Ciara Glennon died from the large neck injuries she suffered. These were at the back and sides of her neck.

In this podcast, Tim Clarke explains why Jane Rimmer’s was inconclusive.

Join Natalie Bonjolo, Tim Clarke and Alison Fan as they wrap up week seven of WA’s trial of the century, discussing the information that’s been allowed to be broadcast, as well as explaining why we can hear it now.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The forensic officer who was involved with the collection of what is now seen as key pieces of evidence for the prosecution has revealed one of those pieces of evidence mysteriously disappeared after it was stored for the weekend at police HQ after Ciara Glennon’s autopsy.

Sgt Adam McCulloch, who was in his second day of evidence, told the court a white fibre labelled AJM23 - which was collected during a Polilight exam on Ciara's body - was missing.

It’s unknown, and will probably never be known the importance, if any, this fibre would have played in the trial.

This evidence, and more on questions surrounding Sgt McCulloch’s exhibit labelling and the sealing of samples using proper procedure on Day 30 of the Claremont Serial Killings Trial. Join Natalie Bonjolo, Tim Clarke and Emily Moulton as they discuss the day’s evidence, and answer some of your questions you’ve sent in.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Day 29 started out unusually in court, with an officer asked to spell the words ‘maggot’ and ‘entomology’ for the court as his cross examination started.

The spelling test however, wasn’t just for fun, the court was told during evidence collection, several copies of exhibit lists were made, and one officer simply couldn’t spell those two words, and could identify his writing through his spelling of ‘magat’ and ‘antomology’.

Also to take the stand, the forensic officer who collected exhibits from the 1995 Karrakatta rape. He told the court it was him who incorrectly labelled one of the items as a skirt, when they were in fact shorts. After weeks of questioning other witnesses, scrutiny of the labelling of evidence, Sergeant Adam McCulloch told the court he simply made a mistake, which was rectified.

Some of the questions sent in by podcast listeners have queried whether the item was a ‘skort’, a mix between the two. However, Sgt McCulloch didn’t have an answer to that.

Another witness, a mortuary technician who helped with Ciara Glennon’s autopsy told the court in 1997, while they had some idea of hair and fibre transfer when touching a body, they didn’t have an understanding that the same could happen with DNA.

Brian Mouchmore told the court he was aware that a skin flake or hair could get onto a body without touching it, but admitted he didn’t really know mortuary instruments could transfer DNA from one part of the body to another.

As Tim Clarke explains, Mr Mouchemore was also quizzed on the length of his beard.

Join him, Natalie Bonjolo and Alison Fan as they take you through the events of day 29.

 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

After three women went missing from the same area within less than two years of each other, police concluded they could be looking for a serial killer.

So they brought in FBI-trained profilers to try and get inside the mind of the person responsible for the murders of two women, and the disappearance of another.

Serial killer experts Claude Minisini and Captain David Caldwell were in Perth, after being invited by MACRO detectives when Ciara’s body was found dumped in bushland in Eglington on April 3, 1997.

The FBI experts were brought up by Supt John Leembruggen during his evidence on day 28 of WA’s trial of the century.

Supt Leembruggen, who was a detective with the MACRO taskforce in 1997, told the court he escorted the two experts into the crime scene of Ciara Glennon’s body. As Tim Clarke explains, the experts' inclusion in the investigation was contentious at the time, and even more contentious, was what they said.

Mr Caldwell had created a profile of the killer while in Perth. He told WA media at the time he believed the then unknown suspect “really enjoys the killing” and “only capture or the killer’s death would stop him taking more lives.”

In this podcast, the team also discuss the injuries found on Ciara Glennon’s body, more quizzing of mortuary technicians of how they collected evidence, and why one of the technicians put a towel meant for cleaning up after an autopsy over his shoulders.

All of that,  plus legal analysis and answers to some of your questions by defence lawyer Damien Cripps on day 28 of the Claremont trial.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

***WARNING: Graphic Content***

Ciara Glennon's fingernail clippings are the key pieces of evidence the prosecution have to say why they'll prove Bradley Robert Edwards is the Claremont serial killer.

The reason why they're so crucial, is because DNA found under those fingernails contained the DNA of the accused, and the prosecution say it got there because of a struggle.

When Ciara Glennon’s body was found on April 3, 1997, she also had defensive wounds on her arms and hands, indicating she fought for her life.

On day 27 of the Claremont Serial Killings trial, the court heard from the mortuary manager who collected those key pieces of evidence. Dr Robert Macdermit, who had conducted more than 10,000 autopsies during his career, clipped Ciara's fingernails, and detailed the grim task that was conducting her post-mortem.

In that autopsy, Ciara's hair mass was also taken, a gruesome task which was explained in full to the court by Dr Macdermit. Ciara's hair is also an important piece of evidence for the prosecution, because several blue and grey fibres, which they say are from the Telstra uniform and Commodore station wagon used by Bradley Edwards at the time.

However, during his cross examination it was revealed Dr Macdermit could have driven a commodore to the post mortem that day.

The defence also noticed what looked like another body present in the room of the time of Ciara's post-mortem. They also got Dr Macdermit to admit they used the same utensils for different body parts, which were rinsed off during the procedure.

Join Natalie Bonjolo, Tim Clarke and Alison Fan as they explain the details of day 27.

 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The defence team for the accused Claremont Serial Killer, Bradley Edwards focussed on forensic collection errors made by police when Jane Rimmer and Ciara Glennon’s bodies were found in 1996 and 1997.

Sergeant Gary Hyde was grilled about errors in transcripts and data entry of forensic pieces from samples collected from the murdered women.

On day 26, we’re joined by forensic expert Brendan Chapman, who helps walk us through some of the potential risks incorrect entries in forensic databases can arise, as well as answer your questions about DNA and forensics.

We also got a glimpse of the type of person Ciara Glennon was in life, with photos of her bedroom just hours after she went missing shown to the court.

The moment trapped in time, as the court saw clothes strewn across her bed and shoes on the floor. The bedroom left by a woman in a hurry, never to return.

Join Natalie Bonjolo, Tim Clarke and Brendan Chapman as they navigate the world of forensics and DNA.

 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.