I Suck (at Smalltalk)

Mon is the karaoke-performing knight in shining armor that stole my sister Patty away from the clutches of Metro Manila. Ha! I’m so grateful for all the times they let me third wheel with them. And I’m lucky-AF to have Mon and Patty to swap “living abroad” stories with!

I met Nicole over four years ago when we took Spanish classes in El Aula Azul. We would do random things together, from practicing Spanish to playing Bananagrams, and even attempting to kayak to Isla Santa Clara on a not-so-safe-for-kayaking day. I'm thrilled to catch up with Nicole and hear about her Pyrenees adventure and how she’s recovered from a recent fall.

Join this captivating conversation as we explore the real struggles faced by an Asian, Filipina woman in the fast-paced world of kitchens around France.

Chef Sinag Adviento shares her firsthand experiences, tackling issues like machismo, language barriers, and the relentless determination that keeps her thriving abroad. Discover the importance of grit and resilience in this eye-opening and fun chat.

Do you search for recipes online like I do? Here’s the scenario: I’m looking for a simple recipe with the ingredients and instructions formatted in bullets, but recipe sites dish out endless tales before revealing the coveted content. They start with the origins of the entrée, cooking tips, alternative ingredients, health benefits, the author’s love for garlic, and more, all before they finally share the recipe. Just check out #2 on my Google search for Filipino Adobo!

It's pure SEO strategy, prioritizing search engine optimization at the cost of user experience, which is a significant turnoff for me, both as a user and as a writer.

While the rich and famous avoid repeating outfits, writers tend to steer clear of reusing words.

Before I continue my SEO rant, allow me to provide context for those who aren’t familiar with the concept.

SEO: Quick Definition and History

I like how MailChimp defines it: Search Engine Optimization (SEO) is the process used to optimize a website's technical configuration, content relevance and link popularity | so its pages can become easily findable, more relevant and popular towards user search queries, | and as a consequence, search engines rank them better.

* Oversimplified Definition: SEO is building your website so that you appear first when someone searches for you or for something similar.

The roots of SEO can be traced back to the early days of the internet. However, it gained prominence as the digital world evolved and as Google amassed global market share. It’s important to note, thought, that SEO also encompasses optimization of your page/content/product for other search engines such as YouTube, Amazon, or China’s Baidu. Then again, with over 80% of the world searching the web via Google, it’s simply smarter for most businesses to focus resources to appear on top of keyword searches in Google… at least for now.

I enrolled in a free course provided by a local formation center to learn SEO in Spanish.

Why I Would Cringe upon Seeing ‘SEO Writer’

In 2008, I ventured into my career as a copywriter, specializing in traditional media such as TV commercials, print ads, and advertorials, with the occasional foray into digital banner ads. (Oh how the media landscape has evolved!) Subsequently, I found myself crafting country reports and advertorials for Foreign Affairs magazine and the Japan Times. This journey eventually led me to a fulfilling role as former Senator Bam Aquino’s speechwriter and head of communications.

Throughout my diverse roles and myriad marketing and writing jobs in between, my primary focus always revolved around delivering clarity to the audience, offering them relevant information quickly, simply, and compellingly.

So when I decided to explore the realm of SEO, I was taken aback by some of its fundamental principles. While the rich and famous avoid repeating outfits, writers tend to steer clear of reusing words—a practice in stark contrast to SEO's rule of thumb of ‘the more the merrier’. Cringe! The term ‘SEO Writer’ seemed like an oxymoron; a great writer wouldn’t allow their work to be dictated by an algorithm.

Here comes the but… My strategic self demanded I play the SEO game, even though it seemed to make content less efficient with repetitive keywords. What value is there in your content if no one sees it? When building a brand or trying to sell a product or service, all the effort and resources invested in a website needs to show ROI in traffic and in sales.

You have to learn the rules of the game if you’re playing to win, or if you’re looking to break them!

What I Hate About SEO Recipe Pages

So what are the SEO rules, followed to a T by recipe webpages, that make my stomach growl and face scowl? These are the top three that annoy me almost as much as being hangry.

Keyword Optimization vs. Time and Brain-space Optimization

Balancing keyword optimization often means repeatedly using a specific phrase like ‘easy chicken curry recipe with coconut milk’ throughout the article, with zero motivation to be concise.

Rich Content vs. Simple Instructions

Recipe sites flood their pages with multimedia (photos and videos) for higher rankings. But honestly, how many pictures do you need? I’ll admit that videos may help and I wouldn’t mind all that media mumbo jumbo if not for…

User Engagement vs. User-friendliness

They tuck the actual recipe—what we're there for!—at the very bottom, forcing us to scroll through endless content. Why? Because scrolling past the entire page gives them points to boost search rankings.

It's pure SEO strategy, prioritizing search engine optimization at the cost of user experience, which is a significant turnoff for me, both as a user and as a writer.

Playing the SEO Game

After a five-month job search and my marketing career hanging in the balance due to my move to a quaint Basque city, two job offers fell into my plate. Who would have guessed that one of them would be ‘SEO Writer’ for an established educational game company?

I remember the CEO making their priorities clear: though they knew I had no SEO background, they chose me for my ability to write compelling, informative articles. They were confident that SEO rules and techniques could be taught quicker and much easier than the art of writing.

My primary focus always revolved around delivering clarity to the audience, offering them relevant information quickly, simply, and compellingly.

‘Janine of All Trades’ chose to be the Content Strategist for Erudit AI, which also had me juggle SEO writing alongside other responsibilities. I had the privilege of working with seasoned SEO consultants and, to be honest, the strategy behind SEO intrigued me in a way I hadn't anticipated.

Fast forward to the present, amidst my current chapter of unemployment, I've decided to rekindle my relationship with SEO, albeit with a more challenging twist. I enrolled in a free course provided by a local formation center to learn SEO in Spanish. It's yet another chapter in my quest to balance the realms of SEO, user experience, and brand identity, while leveling up mi español. I can't wait to see where this new knowledge will take me, I’m already thinking of so many tweaks I need to make everywhere.😆

At the very least, I’m working to improve the website of my suegra for her laser hair removal clinic! Oh, and making new friends and connections, claro.😉

Do you know a small business owner in need of strategic and compelling content? Are you an entrepreneur struggling to turn your thoughts and ideas into a clear content strategy? Connect with me on LinkedIn and let’s untangle those ideas together!

My dog’s name is pronounced gil-yan, like the seashell chocolates. He was from Tito Andy’s first dachshund litter. Thanks, Tito Ands, for giving me Guylian who may well be the greatest gift of my life. Also thankful to Yaya Leds, Mang Edgar, and my mom for being Guyli’s family and safe space as I explored the world.

I may have cried all the tears saved up over the past years; tears I’ve held back whenever Guylian crossed my mind. My strong, stubborn but sweet, loyal canine passed away on October 16, 2023, with 15 wonderful years under his collar.

My mom says he refused to eat and drink, preparing for his final journey. He vomited water. That’s what dogs do when they’re ready to die, says one of the books I read when I prepared for Guyli’s arrival back in 2008.

It was a book on holistic practices for pets and taught me about natural remedies based on their evolution. No non-doggie milk for the pup; I mixed in yogurt instead. I cooked him balanced meals of 75% meat, 15% veggies, and 10% carbs. When I’d see a tick, I’d grate a bit of garlic in his food. I believe this healthy diet resulted in a soft, shiny, and garapata-free coat that caught a stranger’s attention in Tiendesitas. “How’d you get his coat to be so thick and shiny?”

I’d like to believe it also led to his long, healthy life.

Guylian was a handsome dog. Even when a belly started to form, people would stop him on the street, eager to buy one of his pups when he gives birth.😆 Umm.😬 "Lalaki po siya." ("He’s a dude.”)

He was smart. Potty training wasn’t that difficult, though he did mark my bed a few times and often refused to pee outside when it was raining. He’d try to hide his pee under the couch or the corner table!

He mastered "sit," "stay," "jump," "down," "turn around," "roll over," and even "bang!", which had him playing dead. "Lechon" was another trick in his repertoire. Can you guess what that looks like?

My salchicha was also undeniably stubborn, particularly when he sprinted off to chase prey. He once buried himself in a mountain of wood branches in the farm and wouldn't come out, no matter how low and scary I made my voice. Must’ve been something scurrying around in there!

His hunter's instinct was incredible. Guylian had a knack for catching mice and his imaginary trophy case held at least three big rats, a kitten, and even a bird. I’ll never forget prying a dying kitty from his mouth—twice! He just wouldn’t let go.

Es mejor pedir perdón que pedir permiso. (It’s better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.)

Guylian lived that. He’d go for what he wanted, knowing full well it was against my wishes, then come back with his soulful eyes and his undying devotion to following me wherever I went. It was impossible to stay mad at him for long.

It was also impossible to feel alone with such a clingy companion.

Cuddling was one of his talents. At the very least, he'd rest his head on your foot. Most times, he’d steal a pillow and burrow himself close to you. His affection helped me weather countless difficult times and heartbreaks. His existence gave me a reason to carry on even when I didn’t want to. Dramatic, but true.

For almost half of my life, he was one of the greatest sources of joy, love, and support. He was my home.

Guylian was also the source of my guilt. The mere thought of leaving him behind tied my heart in knots, and had my eyes well up. So, in 2019, I had him tattooed on my ankle. That way, I could take him with me wherever I went.

I’ve left him for months at a time but he never cast a look of disdain. The only time he ever gave me that look was when I introduced him to a swimming pool. He'd never swum before, and he despised the water. He loathed taking showers too, hiding and scrunching down closer to the floor every time he heard "Ligo ka na, Gi!" (“Time for a bath, Gi!”)

Guyli was the only reason strong enough to have kept me in the Philippines.

If not for how well he was cared for at home, I never would have been able to pack up and leave for good without him. He was the señorito of the house, and with my mom's expanding plant collection and Mang Edgar's green thumb, he had a beautiful garden to explore every day.

Guylian didn't like being carried. His long body made it difficult for most people to lift him comfortably. But not me. We had that trust; I knew precisely where to place my arms, and he'd let his weight fall onto me as I swept him off the floor. It was a seamless dance between the two of us, a connection we still shared the last time I saw him in February.

I held him like a baby, for he truly was my baby until the very end, even as he went blind and walked more slowly with his arthritis. We grew up together.

I wept like a child when I left, knowing it would be the last time I'd feel his soft fur, pat his big belly, or carry him. It would be the last time I’d hold him, kiss him, tell him how much I loved him.

I wonder if he, too, knew it was our last goodbye?

Guylian's final night fell during my day. The entire Sunday, my back hurt a lot and I had zero energy. The only other symptom was a sore throat, I had no fever. Still, I could barely walk around the house. Weird.

The next day, the feeling was gone. And so was my Giwi.

My last bit of superstition wants to believe that our connection was working its magic across continents. In some way, I was feeling his pain as he came to say goodbye. Maybe he was lying down beside me on the couch all day.

I hope he noticed his photo and all the dachshund-themed memorabilia around the house.

I wonder if he thought of me in the end?

I hope not. I wasn't there to see him off; I was fast asleep.

But if he did, I hope he knew how much I loved him and cherished his unconditional love and trust. How proud I was of his hunting skills, how I think fondly of our road trips, how he saved me from dark moments. And how he will forever hold a piece of my life and my heart, wherever he is.

I imagine him now in a vast field running carefree, diving into the bushes, tracking scents, and enthusiastically digging through the earth, elegantly tossing dirt and leaves behind him with his teeny little legs.

I’ll think of him whenever I’m in nature.

I’ll think of him when I treat myself to my favorite chocolate, which I named him after. I’ll think of him when I see another pup.

I’ll think of him randomly, daily for as long as I live.

Be wild, be free, and be at peace, Guylian. You were and always will be one of the greatest and purest loves of my life.

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This is a hard post to write because it will reveal a part of myself that I really, really do not like: My inaction.

I remember a moment of pure elation. After five months of moving to San Sebastian for good; and after coming to terms with potentially giving up my career in marketing and communications to live here, I finally got job offers—two on the same day! In a snap, my inbox full of rejection letters didn't bother me anymore.

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The icing on the cake was getting to meet my new team in Fuerteventura, one of the Canary Islands. I was on cloud nine! Then BOOM. Category five typhoon Odette struck the Philippines, leaving behind a trail of destruction—islands, homes, lives, and coconut trees lost. I shared posts and links to donation drives between pingpong matches with new colleagues.

I honestly still don’t know how to manage such contrasting emotions all at once.

How can I have so much fun while there’s war, poverty, earthquakes, hunger, flooding, oppression, suffering. There’s so much suffering in the world while I worry about non-consequential tonterias of life and sip on craft beer.

I recall the onset of the Ukrainian conflict shaking me out of my comfort zone again. But my desire to make a difference fizzled into just one single donation.

Today, the world grapples with yet another crisis. The conflict between Israel and Palestine has reached new heights. I find myself, yet again, with that push to know more and do something, anything with impact.

Embrace the discomfort.

An important step to effect any form of mindful change is acknowledgment. It's crucial to face the discomfort and accept the truth that I am, in many ways, too comfortable. Acknowledging my privilege and the world’s injustice, then sitting with that thought is my step one.

Lucky me! #Blessed—It’s easy to get stuck in gratitude. But I don’t want to fall into that trap. While research shows that gratitude may lead to happiness, so does altruism.

I want to make a conscious effort to push past myself: engage with the often discomfiting world news, delve into the complexities of global crises, and strive to grasp where I fit into this bigger picture. It's my teeny way of ensuring I don't remain confined within my safe bubble, particularly since I now reside in what appears to be an almost idyllic little circle in the Basque Country.

Podcasts and resources I've turned to for information:

* Pod Save the World for weekly news round-ups

* Today, Explained for easy-to-understand explanations on current issues

* They have a 4-part series called “Blame Capitalism” that was really interesting!

How to make an impact?

I don’t want to fall into the preachy know-it-all trap either!😝

So the challenge remains. How can I make an impact? It's a question that haunts me, especially when crises hit. The world's problems feel insurmountable, and I'm just one individual.

I'm reminded of my favoritest job ever, working for former senator Bam Aquino. It was a role that made me feel like I was part of a greater good. Having a front-row seat to roundtable discussions involving a spectrum of stakeholders, contributing to the meticulous shaping of laws that cater to their intricate needs and concerns, actively seeking and spreading uplifting tales of Filipinos validating a policy's efficacy. It's that sense of purpose that I crave.

Being jobless carries a hidden blessing, one you find if you see past the pang of shame. I've embarked on a journey of personal growth by enrolling in courses to enhance my skillset. I've also established this blog and a podcast to nurture connections with individuals. However, this public post signifies my resolve to hold myself accountable for my yet-unrealized potential for making a more significant societal impact.

Fingers crossed, I'll stumble upon a gig that's not just a job, but a heartfelt cause. (I say stumble, but I know I need to actively search for it!) Ojalá I find my new sense of purpose and the resolve to change that disappointing part of myself—or accept my limitations if I never get there.

If you've got any leads or tips, please, send them my way. Your support is like a ray of sunshine on my now rainy days.

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Today is Mental Health Day. I’ve been feeling BLEH. And that’s a-okay! It’s natural.

But it’s harder to get me moving. It’s more difficult to write when you're not feeling great… Though perhaps that's when writing helps the most!

With or without social media, it's difficult to share the darker, unhappier side of yourself. There's a fear of being disliked, of being the downer, the negastar. 😆 And I hate being the heavyweight—not the MMA kind but the kind that brings the mood down.

I love cheering people up and making sure everyone is having a good time. But that gets tiring! At the end of the day, other people's joy and experiences are not our responsibility. Just like my happiness is no one else's responsibility but my own.

Own your emotions. Own your reactions. Own your decisions.

☝🏻️ Some of my favorite life lessons.

Two-Wheel Updates

Inspired by Anna, my friend from Barcelona who brought me around on her scooter, I’m motivated to take more motorcycle trips of my own. Apart from having to Google how to open the seat so I could load gas (I couldn’t find the lock! 🤣), it’s been smooth sailing. I've had some dumb driver moments, but the image of an old man with his hands in the air will never let me make the same mistakes again. SHAME!

Is this imposter syndrome?

When asked about my podcast, I find that I downplay it. I even feel ashamed to promote it. Why?! One reason is: “Who the hell am I to publish a podcast?!” Hence my disclaimer that it's more for me than for anyone else.

It might also be because I feel like I can do better. While I find the conversations fun and valuable for me, my performance as a host is subpar at best. I'm usually just out of bed, hungover, or in a wapakels mood, enjoying the moment; I don't feel like I steer the conversation well, and I find myself oh so ineloquent. Wah!

Speaking of which, even my Spanish is stagnating. BOO. Hopefully, the classes help!

I’m Janine and I’m unemployed.

I've realized that though logically I know not to tie my worth to a job, being unemployed is making me all jittery and defensive. Like I have to justify why I'm without work, which sucks! Because I'm appreciative of this time to relax, reflect on what I really want from my career, take courses to improve skills I want to build, and go to aforementioned Spanish classes.

We are more than our jobs! Life is more than work. Repeat 483x.

Mindless Focus While Picking Apples

I feel so lucky to have been part of the cider-making process with Mikel’s friends last Saturday. I enjoyed the manual labor, hanging on branches, and lugging around sacks of apples while everyone spoke another language. I could be in my own little world, using my voice only when I was curious about the process. They let me use the juice pressing machine too, which was cool!

Here's a quick rundown of the process: First, gather a ton of apples. Wash ‘em. Next, run them through a shredder. The shreds then go into a contraption that extracts the delicious apple juice. The freshly strained juice is then pumped into the fermentation tanks while the dried up bits are thrown into the river.😅 (I've made it this far in the process!)

As for when it'll be ready for bottling, I'll ask them about that next time!

While cider-making is fun (and tiring!) the highlight of the day was meeting our friends’ peppy mom named Pepi (and their neighbor who lent extra chairs and helped move tables around!). The first descriptor for me over here is that I’m Filipina so they latched onto that and started sharing trivia. I was reminded of Urdaneta’s contribution to navigation.😅 I’ve forgotten so many bits of our history!

You alone are responsible for the person you become and the life you create. So own it!

Feeling BLEH

Yes, I’ve been feeling bleh lately. I’ve been doubting myself, hating on me, and anxious about the future. But these days are when I’m so grateful for my go-to peeps. Without them, I’d be even crazier than I am now.

Or. Wait.

Without them, I might have been sad and sane instead of fun and crazy—I'd choose fun and crazy any day.😜 Joking aside, the people we choose to have in our lives play a crucial role in our sense of home and happiness. Thank goodness for the internet and its power to connect us across timezones!

Before I say bye, just a reminder that’s it’s ok to not feel ok. Reach out to someone you love and who loves you, even when you’re not at your 100%.❤️ Byeee!

I’m baaack! So…

I do not want this to end up being a diary. But what can I do if my life treats me with lovely memories I want to conserve? (I've noticed that I select words now as if I were speaking in Spanish.)

Conservar ~ Verb. Meaning to conserve or to preserve.

Saucy Business, Haciendo Conservas

We have homemade tomato sauce for the winter! 8 kilos of ripe tomatoes, a giant pot bubbling away, 14 jars lined up like little soldiers, and hours of cooking, straining, and funneling. The result is our very own homemade stash of tomato goodness, ready to warm up those cold winter days. Want the recipe and process? Message me!

Next weekend, Mikel's friends make their apple cider and I hope to lend a hand. Love, love, love how they’re so connected to their food sources here. They don’t just love food, they immerse themselves in the entire process and you learn how to taste the difference!

Big City Excitement, de BCN a MAD

Last week, I jet-and-train-setted off to Barcelona and Madrid, two bustling Spanish urban jungles that get my taste buds all excited for Asian flavors! I. Miss. Asian. Food. OK?!

The best part, apart from being driven around by Anna on her scooter, was catching up with work buddies post-layoffs. I'm incredibly lucky to be part of this fun, open-minded, and brilliant crew. They've fully embraced me, the lone non-native Spanish speaker.🥹 Also incredibly lucky that the club played some english pop tunes.😅

Note to self: while a bit of alcohol can do wonders for my Spanish, it's not exactly a brain booster the next day! #resaca

Tipsy Talks with Terrific Filipinas

What else? I had dranks with two extraordinary Filipinas that I’ve only met via social media—one in each city. We have no photographic evidence of our epic meet-ups (How very un-pinoy of us!) but we do have tipsy memories of boisterous laughter. Stay tuned for podcast convos with these amazing ladies on my personal podcast, "I Suck at Smalltalk".

Podcasting Pandemonium

Speaking of which, the podcast is live and kicking! If you haven't already, check it out on Spotify and hit that follow button. The first episodes are up, and I'd love to hear your thoughts.

The surprises just keep coming! I was tinkering around on Substack and discovered that all my audio recordings from my articles are available on Apple Music. Yep, my voice is out there in the digital cosmos (without me even knowing it!). 🎤

Train Tales

Oh. And speaking of sucking at smalltalk… I’m actively working on overcoming the awkward jitters en español! In my train journey back home, I ended up having a long conversation with Luis Miguel, a 48-year-old truck driver from Toledo. We were both bored and starving, assuming there'd be onboard dining—only to discover there wasn't. It's funny how unexpected encounters can turn a mundane trip into an unforgettable one. We even shared a beer!

Embracing the Zen Life

As much as I appreciate the big city visit and the overdose of Asian (and Mexican!) flavor, I've come to realize that I'm not a big city aficionado anymore. Maybe it's a phase, or maybe I've just developed an appreciation for a more serene, laid-back lifestyle. Either way, I'm embracing the zen of home.

I think that’s enough of the random stories for now! Thank you for indulging my musings. All these thoughts create webs of potential content that still overwhelm me. If only I could snap my finger and have everything written and ready!

Paso a paso. Step by step.

How have you been???

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We may be a bit slow due to too much alcohol and too little sleep, so feel free to crank up the speed to 2x for some hilarious and heartwarming insights into our experiences abroad. I’m so, so glad we’ve found our new homes. But oh so sad we’re halfway around the world from each other.

Podcast Transcript

I'm Janine Ramirez and this is I Suck at Small Talk.

Today we skip the fluff and go straight into deep talk with my sister Patty.

Hey Pat, welcome.

Hey, hey, hey, hey.

Thanks for having me, Ate.

Okay, so

First of all, I have a hangover-ish.

I didn't drink that much but I slept super early in the morning because I attended a wedding yesterday and then there was a barrio fiesta called The Porronchos that we went to till past 4am.

So that's, you know, disclaimer for this episode and Pat also.

We went to Porronchos.

Yeah.

No, I have a hangover from a drink I had this afternoon with some friends.

I had an Aperol Spritz, one lang, and then my head hurts now.

So I think it's... Maybe it's the mix.

You have to try other things.

Yeah, I don't think it's my drink.

Yeah, I, funnily, I also tried Aperol, like I ordered an Aperol Spritz for the first time, I think, ever yesterday.

So we're like so connected.

I know, I love Aperol.

Even across the world.

okay so um in my first batch of episodes i wanted to talk about moving away from our home country the philippines and i think it would be missing a big chunk of soul if i don't talk to my sister about it because as i mentioned we're in different sides of the world patty moved to australia about two years ago and just had her

fairytale wedding that we all super had fun in this year and it looks great and perfect on paper but there's also a lot of complex emotions that you know come out and and just not necessarily all roses to deal with when you move abroad so I want to talk a little bit more about those things in this episode

Are you feeling good about that, Pat?

Even with your family?

Sounds good.

Yeah, let's do it.

Okay, so Pat's in Sydney, I'm in San Sebastian.

We miss each other a lot.

But funny, we also moved away for good around the same time, right, Pat?

Yeah, when did you first move?

Well, it was weird for us because maybe four years ago was when I first like stayed here for a few months.

And then we went back to the Philippines and then there was like the pandemics, we got stuck there.

And then we did like back and forth for two years.

But like really deciding to stay here for good and setting up, you know, our home here was two years ago, which is same as you.

Yeah, yeah.

So poor mom.

I know.

We just said bye.

Okay, first question, Pat.

Can you share your expectations versus reality of living in Sydney?

Were there any surprises?

Were you well-prepared?

Any challenges that stick out during your transition?

Well, to be honest, I don't really think I had, like, expectations before moving here.

Like, all I knew was that, okay, I'm moving to be with Mon, and I'm gonna be with Mon.

And there wasn't really much else.

But you've been there before, right?

Before you really moved.

Like, you would visit family there.

Yeah, I had been here twice before.

And, like, I knew it was gonna be, like, a good life here.

Like,

great public transport, just easier, like better quality of life, I guess.

I knew that that was like a thing to expect.

But then

Like the day-to-day and also like, I guess, the struggles or the challenging part of it.

I had no idea.

And I don't think you can fully really be ready to move away.

I don't know.

Maybe for some people, they're like, yes, I'm moving.

But for me, especially, it happened during the pandemic.

So it was like, I was stuck at home for two years, then suddenly, okay, bye, you're moving.

So I didn't even get to say a proper goodbye to people.

I didn't see my friends at all before I left.

And so yeah, it was a little weird.

But then, I guess like, overall, it was a good transition.

But I think maybe the biggest surprise was how homesick I would be or like, I don't know, I think it was challenging in a way like it was still hard.

And I didn't prepare for that.

Is it the day-to-day or is it the people there that you didn't get to say goodbye to?

What was the hardest part about leaving home for you?

Yeah, the people, like, and just being in the comfort of home.

And then, like, I was literally at home for two years.

So I wasn't even going out of, like, the house.

Yeah.

And then I had to leave the country.

No, mom was going out more than you.

Yeah, she was the one going out.

I wasn't talaga like really barely and if when I would it was super mask on and like running levels and then when big lang I moved here I had to travel take a plane and then here it was like you would just go out like it was normal.

And I feel like it was such a big transition.

COVID and the pandemic and being in quarantine did such a number on us, on so many people.

It's like, I know, even without the moving away, the going from everything is a danger to you, right?

Like, just the air that you breathe outside of your home, or even in your home, if someone got COVID in your house.

is like a danger to your life.

And then now we're so chill about it.

I know.

And I feel like we haven't even really, well, at least for me, processed the whole COVID thing and how much it actually impacted, like, me.

Yeah.

So I feel like there's some trauma there that hasn't been like,

explore it i started reading victor frankl's what's the title like what is it meaning of life oh my gosh i swear my brain is not working but he survived like you know the

World War II and being in a concentration camp and stuff like that and he's but he's like a psychiatrist psychologist so he would like he's sharing his his experience but also kind of psychoanalyzing it and going to like the core of what it is to be human and of course it's he mentions other studies of people that have been you know in

one little environment without having to go out.

And I'm not saying that we experienced, like, how bad it was for people that were, you know, in the concentration camps at the time or people that are, you know, locked in jail or in asylums and stuff like that.

But parang, I guess, it was like a super tiny taste of it.

Yeah.

And I feel like it

that has a huge effect like I have a friend here na she's like a social worker and she works with like young not so young kids parang nearing adolescence and she was saying now even here there's a height a high in in like depression and their suicide attempts and stuff like that and I'm like holy crap and that's here like I feel like

You know, in the Philippines, it was so much worse.

And it was worse for people that were in like, condominiums.

Oh, yeah.

Like, in the group chats that we were all in, friends would be like, does anyone have a contact to like, a psychiatrist, like a friend is needing, like people were like, really needing to speak to someone.

Yeah, and support.

Yeah.

It was hard.

So yeah, this is the pandemic.

We veer away from it.

We're moving away from it.

But it's still important.

We can talk about it another time.

Yeah.

And I think because it happened around that time.

So it was like a part of like my experience moving.

It happened during COVID.

Yeah.

Like, for you, it was all at once.

Right?

Yeah.

Like, you're...

Oh my god, I swear my brain is super crap today.

But I'm imagining like you were in a cage, right?

Like you're an animal that's in a cage, and then transported somewhere and then set free in a totally different place.

Like how would that feel?

You're like, wait a minute, this is not my environment.

So yeah, the transition is extra tough and strange.

Plus, you're supposed to be super happy because it's Sydney.

Exactly.

Yeah, like it was mixed emotions.

Like, okay, you're supposed to be living your best life here.

But then there's it's you know, it wasn't as smooth as I thought.

Like there was that part of like, getting homesick and then just being like, a bit lost and not sure about being here and questioning and all of that stuff.

But

It's a great tier though.

Love it.

But you know, yeah.

Okay, I have a question.

Because I also ask myself sometimes and the answer might be like, yes and no at the same time.

But yeah, you feel like you belong in Sydney now that Sydney is your home?

Yeah.

I think but the belonging, what about like, feeling that you belong there?

Hmm.

Yeah.

I mean,

Like you said it's a yes and no kind of thing like there are moments where it's yeah like this is where I'm meant to be whatever and then there are days where it's like oh my god I'm still so um you know it's foreign things are foreign or I'm like a little bit can't relate to you know.

like what the locals are talking about.

Because parang when you so I think but I think in general, yes, like, and I'm slowly starting to accept that my experience here, like my immigrant experience moving here, it's like not going to be the same, obviously, as people who were like born and raised here.

And so I'm like, as I am

So what are the moments

Earlier, we were super laughing.

Anyway, what are the moments that made you or that make you feel like you belong?

Is it when you're with Mon's family or at work?

What are those moments that you're like, hey, I'm in Sydney and I belong here?

For me, it's when I'm wandering by myself.

Sorry, Mon.

Obviously when I'm with Mon, I feel like I belong.

It feels like home being with him here and Hopper.

It's home.

But then when I walk the streets, when I commute, when I interact with like, you know, when I go to a cafe and like have conversations with the people, you know, I feel like, yeah, small talk, which I'm getting a bit like better at.

since having moved here but that's I'm still awkward but parang I feel like that I feel like I belong I can't explain how but like right it's like it's like you're feeling independent yeah yeah oh my gosh so so me also you know like in Manila you don't really greet people

And I was like, I'm sorry if I, like, in school, in a tene or whatever, if you're like, oh my gosh, super suplada because she never said hi to you.

But parang I don't feel comfortable saying hi to people that I'm not sure naman if they remember me or whatever.

Yeah.

And even, di ba, parang if you're in the elevator, let's say elevator at work, there are people that you see every day there.

But you don't, you're not gonna be like, hey,

Good morning, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think it, it boils down to parang the trust that we have in society, in general, parang in Manila, I guess, because there's so many people, there's so many scammers, and stuff like that, you kind of keep to yourself and you're more defensive, even when driving, right?

But here, there's so much parang

trust well now like sometimes i'm already there have been you know people like my my bike was robbed and stuff like that but in general there's more trust like with people that you can just be like hi good morning and they're like do small talk yeah

I think also because Mikkel is so good at it and he gets pissed like even when we were living in Manila he would be like in the elevator with I don't know someone else that lives in the building and he'd be like hi and they don't respond.

He gets mad.

That's so rude.

how can you not say like I said hi and like they didn't even say anything and I'm like it's just how it is here I'm so sorry oh back home back home in Manila ah yeah yeah yeah okay yeah for sure they'll greet you yeah but here also sometimes when parang we have a neighbor that's a little bit parang serious and just like like hi like that and then after like me saying what a weirdo

everyone else is like hi how are you like good oh the weather you know what i mean just there like elevator small talk or like haven't seen you in a while yeah i don't know also like for back home because you know how like manila's so small i don't know there's always like i feel like i felt it's weird that you say it's so small yes i mean yeah are we like more judgy we're so judgy

Right?

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm not gonna pretend.

I'm not.

here it's like no one really cares just be you yeah i kind of like that no one really cares or like when i moved here i feel like no clean slate right no one knows me i can be whoever like i can be whoever i want to be and yeah there's no yeah like there's no one knows like how i normally am or whatever so like right

you kind of are free to be whoever you want.

Yeah, just like

It's true.

Parang, let's say there, in the Philippines, I already was kind of stuck in the mode of if I see someone that I know, like, I don't want to say hi.

Like, I get, like, I try to, like, avoid or something.

Literally walk the other direction sometime.

Or like, I'll go na lang muna to this store.

I need pala to buy something in Watson's.

But here, there, it's like, why was I so like that?

I don't know, parang now I wonder like, what, is it there parang super ultra insecurity?

Or, I don't know.

Or also just like, the judgment?

I don't know, because people back home are also really judgy.

I don't know what it is then.

But like, the other week, here, I was so surprised at myself.

I ran into like,

someone of like a common friend.

No, not a common friend, a friend's friend.

So like, okay, a friend of mine had her like birthday, a few months back, and then invited me and then a bunch of her other friends.

And that girl was also there.

So I met her in that party.

And then I saw her recently in a store.

And I was like,

As in, she didn't see me.

I literally went up to her and was like, Hey, Nicole!

Sorry, I just said her name.

Oh my God, you remembered her name.

Good thing.

I hate names.

And then she didn't remember me at first.

So I was a little like, Oh my God, should I have done this?

And then I was like, Oh, we met at so-and-so's birthday.

Blah, blah, blah.

And then we had a bit of a conversation.

And then she was asking me,

What do you have in your basket?

Because I was shopping and then it was like nice and I was like It was like that's great that you can just do that.

Yeah, and I guess once you do it, it's like it's not so bad You know, it's not so weird and like you're happy you did it

I think I have the pressure, the opposite pressure now because Mikael is like, ugh, so rude, like don't say hi.

I'm like, oh my gosh, that used to be me.

That used to be me.

Don't judge me.

I'm gonna change, right?

And he is like, I call him the alcalde because he knows everyone.

Like we can't

go to a place without bumping into at least one person that he knows so sometimes when he's like talking to someone and like we bump into that person regularly like I say hi to them na I have to probably say hi in the street and sometimes they don't remember me but they'll just be like Mikael's girl just name drop

Like the time that I made Kwento, the motorcycle.

The guy who was trying to help you?

Yeah, so I don't think I posted it so I can make it Kwento again but I was practicing on the motorcycle because now I have my license.

like the motorcycle it's not like the side stand like you have to put it on like a higher stand and then you have to put your weight on something and lift it up and for me I don't

I don't get it yet like I'm I struggle so I was driving at night just practicing while Mikkel was fishing in this place this other town and then there was like this guy right by the pedestrian crossing and I was like am I gonna like stop for this guy to cross and then he like whips out a bottle of beer and really like like pours it like

bottoms up and I'm like okay he's not gonna cross yet so I went and then I parked and then while I was parking I was super struggling like trying to get the motorcycle up on its stand and then the guy comes walking by the same guy with a bottle and I'm like oh my god the pressure like he's like gonna see me struggling so I stopped first

And I saw him and I'm like, wait a minute, like, we ran into this guy before and Mikael has talked to him a lot and he would like, he said hi to me and you know, parang acknowledge my presence.

So I'm like, hey, you're Mikael's friend, right?

Like Martiha.

And he was like, yes.

Teamwork!

Teamwork!

Teamwork!

I'm like, Mika was fishing there, like come say hi.

So we're walking, parang buddy-buddy.

And then Mika was like, what?

Like, who is Janine talking to here in this place?

Like, this is not even where we live.

Like, what the hell?

And then, like, I arrive with this friend.

And he even made it quid with his mom because he was so proud na parang she's like a local now that she runs into people.

Thanks to him, but those are the times that I feel like I belong.

Although, there are times that I don't in terms of the language.

When it's my first time talking to someone and they don't know that I'm not a Spanish speaker.

So I feel like... Yeah, I feel like with you, it must even be more heightened because of the language barrier.

Yeah, like if it's someone there like introduced to me and kinda knows that I'm not from here so they're more understanding of the fact that I don't, like it's not my first language and I'm still learning it.

yeah but they're super nice about it like once they know like yesterday in in the wedding one of the the girlfriends that i only met once because she's like one of the new girlfriends um love it and when she later on in the night she asked me like so how long have you been here now i'm like oh like for good like two years and she's like oh my gosh only two years and then she goes like was i talking to you too fast like do you want me to talk

I feel like she's so nice about it and so understanding.

She's like, I thought you were here for like 10 years or something.

I'm like, no, no, no, super new.

And when it comes to grammar, they're not, they don't have, like us, the word barok, that you feel bad for having wrong grammar.

Or like a grammar Nazi.

Yeah, they're not grammar Nazis.

They're so supportive of you speaking it and, you know, like,

no like you speak so I'm like I know that I make my my grammatical mistakes but I guess like as long as you understand what I'm trying to say like that's the bottom line although like Mikaela has friends that will correct me but they'll be like I'm correcting you so you learn okay like don't worry so yeah it's nice but okay so we feel like we belong now are there moments that you feel like an outsider still like oh crap like

Yeah, I mean, yeah, like when I'm hanging out with like my, like my office mates, they'll make cuenta stuff about their childhood or about school life.

That's super different, obviously, like, I have zero idea about what they're talking about, like, in year ganyan, like,

do you remember this thing and then all students six it's not like that yeah and like let's say intrams or whatever like they have their own things not all schools do it on the same year so they all kind of like know or even like we were talking about it the other day too like you know how like we used to wrap our books in like the plastic wrap yeah plastic they have their own thing

And they were talking about this material, whatever they used to protect their books.

And I was just like, oh my god, even like those things.

I'm like, we use plastic, like wrapper anyways.

So those little things, like I feel still like, oh my god, outsider, but then it's, it's minor.

Yeah, I guess it's just a learning curve.

Because it's like, okay, like, what does it mean when they say this?

And when they talk about this?

And the more that people make cuento to you, like, the more you get it, in a way.

Yeah, and like, I've just sort of like,

I'm leaning on it where if they talk about something, I'm like, oh, what's that?

Can you explain it to me?

Instead of just being awkward and sitting there.

Yes, that's the key to cracking small talk, is be curious.

Yes, you know, that's also the key to cracking social anxiety.

Really?

Which my therapist, yeah.

Oh my gosh.

Like, parang, curiosity.

Yeah, you don't know it.

Because usually, before— And that's okay.

Yeah, when I didn't know something, it's like, oh, I feel bad.

Like, I'm such an outsider.

I like, I'm so OP here in the corner.

I have no idea what anyone's talking about.

I'll just be quiet.

And like, I'll, I'll feel bad.

Yeah, whereas like, yeah, own it.

You don't know you're not from here.

You're not supposed to know then just like, ask, and like, yeah, learn about it.

And then you can even be like, Oh, back home.

It's like this.

And they learn something from you and they get to know you more.

Oh, that's so good.

Whoever's listening.

I mean, anyone's listening.

Curiosity.

Yeah, that really helped me a lot.

But it's still hard.

It's still not like, parang there's effort parin that has to go into like, okay, I'm going to be curious now.

Right.

But anyways, but yeah.

All in all, I feel like those little moments of feeling like I don't belong, they're minor.

Yeah, parang the other side of the coin weighs heavier.

Yeah, same.

I feel the same.

Oh, we found our new homes away from home.

I know.

I just like I'm still wanting to build like more relationships like more friendships also because that's another thing like when you're new to a place, of course it helps when you have like people that you can spend time with and all of that and that's

that's hard also too that's hard it's hard to find when people that you really really wanna hang out with and spend time with right it's like going on dates but for friends kind of is there like a good vibe here am i feeling comfortable here because and it's okay if not and even if someone hangs out with me and they don't feel that feeling

You know, I won't take it so personally.

It's just the way it is.

Sometimes you're feeling the person and sometimes you're not.

Is there something you want to share to the class, Ate?

I feel like that's coming from somewhere.

I was thinking about it there.

Since Mikkel is such a popular person.

And I love his barkada there.

I love spending time with them.

They're such great amazing people and the girlfriends and wives also sometimes will plan something together so it's great but I want my peeps that I

No, not necessarily through him.

I don't know why.

I don't think it's being competitive or like, this is mine and that's yours.

I guess it's like a personal challenge for myself.

Like wanting to know that I can have amazing friends on my own and work is such a big

you know way to do that and yeah i think i've met like really amazing people but what sucks is that we well i'm not in the company anymore but we worked remotely so no one is from here and i just oh i wish i always tried to convince like some of them to move to move like when they when someone like visits like even just for a bit because

Yeah.

Yeah, I do get along with them.

I'm gonna see them in the end of September.

And I'm excited.

I always tell them where do they live?

You guys are my first like my first friends here.

Um, a lot of them live in Madrid, and Barcelona.

And then there's one there's some that live in like Sevilla and in Malaga, I think also so.

Medj, like, scattered.

There was one that was living in Bilbao that's just, like, an hour away from here.

And I met up with her, like, a few times because she's, like, amazing.

But she wasn't, like, originally from there.

So parang she took, um, like, a doctorate course.

So she lived in the Netherlands for a few months.

And then now she's back in her hometown, like, closer to Madrid.

So no one is near me.

And it's sad.

It's hard to make friends.

My therapist.

And to find that you're there, you're excited or someone to call to just have a drink.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

My therapist gave me this exercise before.

It was really hard for me to do and it felt really weird.

But she was like, make a list of all of your friends, like from actual friends to like acquaintances or someone you like literally just had one passing conversation with.

And then, parang, think about how you can take your relationship to the next level.

I was like, whoa, isn't that like super creepy?

Yeah, but it was like therapist approved.

Let's say for this friend, this is the level we're at right now.

We exchange hellos in the office or whatever.

What's the next step?

Maybe for her, I can ask her out for coffee.

And that's my next step to build that relationship.

And then this friend, oh, we've gone out one time.

What's the next?

Oh, maybe I can invite her to my birthday or whatever.

Oh, that's like consciously improving your relationships.

That's amazing.

Yeah, yeah.

And like, in that way, it's like, there's a, there's a goal.

It's like little baby steps of like, okay, how and then yeah, you're analyzing the level you're at with each person and how you can take it or maybe Yeah, you can be like, oh, this person.

I actually don't really like her so much.

Yeah, so we can, we can leave her there.

Like, she's fine there.

Yeah, exactly.

I love our hater side.

So that's another tip guys, listeners.

Yeah, that's another tip.

And I'm going to also link some podcasts.

When I first started listening to podcasts, I remember one that was about or that was like an interview with this psychologist that wrote a book called Platonic.

And it was about the importance of all our relationships like we're so used to I don't know why if it's Disney or whatever to and I guess like naturally to put all our

I'm

um maybe they're the life partner your go-to person yes is your romantic partner but maybe you have a friend that helps you improve in terms of I don't know like being active maybe you go with that person to the gym all the time and that's that person for that part of you that you want to improve or I don't know maybe you wanna maybe you're artsy and you love drawing and maybe you have like a friend that you go somewhere with the like sketch you know what I mean so it was like

kind of it's so simple but I realized how how eww like cheesy cringy I've been in terms of you know how I looked at relationships and giving my all to just like the one relation it's so gross

gross and that's why i want to like make sure i talk to you and you know like that's why i'm doing this yeah this whole experiment so that i can still maintain my although i've only been talking to you so much and no one else is messaging me so please okay like see you and have conversations with me but yeah and there another podcast was

about the key to happiness or being content in life and having like a good life and relationships is one of those things like you have to have strong social bonds.

And I think it comes out more or like the need for it comes out more when you move away.

Like you realize, yeah, oh s**t.

You take it for granted when it's just there.

Yeah, a bit.

It's so easy.

Yeah, especially like, oh, these have been my friends from high school.

Like, like, yeah, you have your barcada from high school, barcada from first job, barcada from college.

Yeah.

And then your family, like it's

You know, you just have people.

And then when you move away, it's like, oh my gosh, like, I have to start from scratch.

And it's not as easy when you don't have like a school environment or a work environment.

And you're not from the same, you didn't grow up there.

Yeah.

So yeah, it's true.

Interesting.

In Manila, it's so easy to be like, to find the connection.

And then biglang, you're connected na.

And that somehow makes it better and easier.

Like, oh, you know, Ganyan, who's a really good friend of mine.

you have like a base to build from but I also like that you know in a new place you're consciously looking for your like people that you get along with or something and yeah like it's not just that they're there

Hangover Chat with My Sister

I think that's also a barrier, I guess.

The cultural, how you speak to each other, the jokes, it's different.

Yeah, like the jokes, we're so witty.

But I super realize how witty Filipinos are, na parang a conversation about something, there's just always some sort of hyrid or joke that's gonna pop out to make it lighter and more fun.

and yeah very true here parang not as much but i'm like me the one that doesn't really speak the language i'm the one that will like make jokes about it or try to like word play things or whatever so yeah i miss i miss that and that's why yeah call me people

Okay, Pat, I don't want this to be too long.

So I'm gonna go straight to the question I want to ask everyone that, you know, agrees to be on an episode.

Because this is called I Suck at Small Talk.

So I want to ask like, what do you think?

What's something that you think that you really suck at?

And how are you working to overcome it?

Well, I mean, I don't want to just say Smalltalk because that's yours, but Smalltalk is one of mine also.

I mean, it's the name of the show.

I was trying to think of something else, but then I think Smalltalk.

That works perfectly.

Hello, if every guest says at Smalltalk, then I'll have like gazillion million tips.

Yup, because I'm gonna have gazillion million guests, but no, but go, go, go.

Sorry.

And then in line with that, I think, because I am really like anxious, like in social situations.

And I think I have like imposter syndrome wherever I go.

So like, I think how it comes out when I'm like talking to people, it's always like, Oh, I don't even have some anything interesting to say.

I won't say it.

Or like, I don't know.

It's like, yeah, it's like, I did not know this about you, Pat.

And I do not see you this way at all.

It's like,

Well, I still have the memories of you as a kid, like, you know, wanting to perform for people.

You want me to cartwheel?

I'll cartwheel.

Seriously, sometimes I'm like, I need that girl to come out.

I believe in the cartwheel singing dancer within.

I need her back.

She needs to make a comeback.

But yeah, I don't know if it's after having moved here also where you sometimes feel a little smaller than everyone else.

I don't know.

Oh no, my camera's dying.

I don't know.

But yeah, there's something that I just feel like always second guessing myself when I

meet people and introduce myself.

And I feel like I don't present myself in a way that's like confident and like, able to, I don't know.

So basically, yeah, so I think basically, it's like, self confidence.

And like the holes in the whole small talk space.

And just in general, I would say.

I'm so happy with our convo, Pat.

This has to be a regular thing.

So at first, I wanted two podcasts, like this one and one with Patty.

We were thinking that we should have one.

But Pat maybe doesn't really want a podcast so I can just have her over regularly in my podcast to talk and I think that's gonna happen a lot.

yeah because I love our convos and you've given so many helpful tips and I want to thank you to my confidence yes thank you I know I really feel like yeah I feel like I need to build it again maybe it's because yeah I moved here and so I feel like I'm not I don't know how to explain it but before I think

me like when I became a mixed VJ it really changed me cuz yeah

like and I still felt really awkward while being a VJ and had to get through that but it like pushed me that I have no choice I have to interview people I have to you know what I mean yeah I have to be like hosting an event with loads of people and it's like scary but constantly pushing myself out there and meeting people and I guess having friends that still love me

in spite of all of these things and I realized na when I'm with family and when I'm with friends like you know that I already know and get along with or office mates like once I've warmed up and they get to know me like that's the me that's real

Right?

Like, okay, I can joke and I can be kengkoy and I can, you know, be weird and stuff like that.

And you have that too.

Like, your friends, I mean, your wedding is proof of how, I don't want to call it extroverted, but how comfortable and confident you can be.

Right?

Like, bust a move, rap away.

I mean, you're freaking the best Eminem rapper ever, Pat.

Don't ever forget it.

Better than Eminem.

Did you hear that, Eminem?

So to end this episode, I will make kwento of when we were in San Francisco and Trey, Patty's cousin, took us to a karaoke joint.

Now there, karaoke is freaking public.

It's like a mini stage.

You get on stage and everyone sees you sing.

and Patty chose the song Love The Way You Lie and it had to be like the Rihanna the backup singing chorus but Pat rapped like oh my god like it was her coming out party you know what's Eminem has that movie na parang he has when he actually when he parang is so galing na and everyone's like whoa like that was your moment

Like the people, I saw people like, people were so shocked.

People's face were like, whoa, like mind blown.

And then there was a guy cleaning in the back, like a black dude cleaning in the back like with a broom and came out with a broom just to see like, who is this amazing rapper?

I just know, but so true.

Like some guy with a broom came out and was like, what's happening here?

Who is this amazing talent?

Why wasn't I discovered?

Where was the music producer in the room?

We should've stayed and did rounds in different karaoke joints and for sure you'd be discovered.

You're gonna be the next rapper.

Who's the one singing Triangle?

What's that?

Pyramid?

Teresa Mpenko?

Discovered by Ellen DeGeneres

Okay, exactly.

45 minutes.

We're going to end there and we're gonna have more of Patty in another episode because she is amazing.

And I'm sure she's gonna conquer this confidence and imposter syndrome issue.

Thank you everyone so many people maybe one or two people.

Hi mom.

Hey mom.

Hey Tina Pam.

Anna, Anna are you listening?

Mon, Mon, your mic setup.

Sponsored by Mon's mic setup, mic and video setup.

Yeah.

But thanks, Pat.

That was so fun.

I'm sure we're gonna make a story after that.

But there to everyone that's listening, we've only scratched the surface today and I bet you have your own stories and experiences to share.

So don't be shy.

Reach out to us.

Subscribe to our blogs.

And let us know your thoughts, doubts, and questions and struggles about living abroad or wanting to live abroad.

I totally went into DJ mode.

But there.

Thanks guys!

Ba-bye!

I vividly remember celebrating Issa’s first job abroad in Singapore, being her first visitor, and exploring Tokyo together. Issa is not only a dear friend but also one of the few who has ventured to visit me here in San Sebastian. Her career in marketing, coupled with the joys and challenges of motherhood, offers incredible insights and inspiration. Also insightful: our cringey memories of suffering through long distance relationships—WAH! Join us for a personal and heartwarming conversation about friendship, career, LDR, and the beautiful chaos of life across four countries.

Podcast Transcript

Welcome to I Suck at Small Talk!

I'm Janine Ramirez and today I have someone that I'm uber comfy with to ease myself into these interviews but that's also so weird interviewing people that you know so well.

But I will introduce her to you.

So the amazing, amazing Issa Abrillo Velete who has been my soul sister since freshman orientation at Ateneo.

So I remember meeting her for the first time.

And it was crazy.

Like, I don't know, there was that game that we were like smashing into each other, which is so violent.

I don't know why that was the game and the orientation.

And then... Yeah, na parang chain.

Like you're linked in a chain.

Then you have to like break the chain or something.

And it's just...

From the start, intense na yung relationship na.

And I remember her getting her job in Singapore and her telling me and me jumping on my bed like, oh my God.

And I think like right after I booked tickets, my flights to go there na wala pa siya dun.

I'm gonna visit you.

And then from Singapore, she even went to

Tokyo also for work and then to Rotterdam in the Netherlands and now she's in Parma in Italy so all of this while juggling a successful career and her family life I'm so amazed at ease and that's why I'm having her on my podcast so thank you Issa for for joining me in ISOC at Smalltalk

How are you?

I'm good.

But also, I agree with Patty that you don't suck at small talk.

Maybe I talk too much at small talk?

Yeah.

Like, this is not the right name for your podcast, but it's okay.

I was telling her, it's like, I realized after my conversation with her that it's something more internal.

Like, it's me.

But of course, like with you guys, it's not na kasi small talk.

No, it's not.

Like, and maybe it was more beforehand and certain types of people that I really, like, I'm like frozen and I don't know what to say.

Because I was like so plada, right?

In college.

You were, but I think over time, which I think a lot of people do, you sort of learned how to talk, to do small talk because it's more about asking questions.

And every time I introduce you to somebody, that's what you do anyway.

You like start talking to them and you start asking questions.

Janine Ramirez

But it's not your fault na, it's theirs.

They suck at small talk.

I'm going to call it they's.

They suck at small talk.

It's not your problem.

Okay, game.

I have questions and I want to know the answers.

It's not just like sucking at small talk but there are a lot of insecurities and struggles that we have.

And I've always admired your confidence because it's like

It's like so natural and when you have a goal, like you go for it without a doubt, without hesitation and it's like, yeah, like fearlessly.

Like let's say, Manila to Singapore, were you super sure na parang okay, I want this job, I'm gonna go for it?

Like what was that like?

Right there!

How does that even come out?

Natural?

Natural.

No, but it's like, I was thinking about it because di ba you were sharing with me some of the questions that you were gonna ask.

But then I was really thinking about, was I ever scared moving to Singapore?

And I cannot remember feeling scared with Singapore.

It was just excited.

I was just super, super excited.

I really don't remember fearing any, like, oh, what if I get there and I'm not gonna enjoy it?

Ibang nga all these questions.

And I was thinking about why I wasn't scared.

And I really think it's just because I'm lucky to have that sense of security at home.

So parang if anything goes wrong, if I can't pack it, if it doesn't go the way I think it should go or the way I want it to go,

I have my family at home who I know will not judge me.

And I have you guys who I'm sure you guys will be my hype men.

So I think it was that.

It wasn't scary because even when I was younger, I've always wanted to be independent.

And my family hated it so much because I was like, I want to live in a condo by myself.

At 18, I'm like, how do you have money?

How would you get a condo?

Are you gonna pay for it?

Who's gonna pay for your rent?

Like, I remember my dad and mom laughing because I was like, I was like 18 and wanting to live on my own because everybody was in frickin' in Katipunan, what were the names of those condos?

Ay, yung mga dorms and ano.

Prince David's.

Oh my God.

Prince David's.

So in my head, we're like, oh.

Burgundy.

Ay, Burgundy.

Burgundy plus.

I was like, how?

How can people, why can other people live on their own?

So I remember even in college, I was like that.

But you lived so close.

I know, I know.

I lived 20 minutes away from Kapipunan.

No, but then it was also cool because when the Singapore offer came, before that, siguro a year before, Marvs and I were talking about it.

They were like, maybe at one point we should try living somewhere kasi when will you do it pa?

Like when will we try?

And then it came, so both of us were like thinking about it and we never really searched until the opportunity came.

So for me, when things like that happen, parang you don't question it, diba?

You need to sort of go for

I think it's a cliche.

Mentally, you were prepared because you've been thinking about it and you've been wanting it and then you have the support system naman na you know there parang no matter what happens, whether you succeed or fail, you're good anyway.

But was it hard?

Singapore.

I don't know.

Yeah, because there's like a really fun, I guess, and supportive also Filipino community there.

So I guess no, but did you ever feel homesick despite all of that or no na?

Singapore not so much because only when I miss you guys or when I miss family like events and stuff and you kind of want to be part of that.

At one point, I think we had like a

Janine Ramirez

Not so much because it was just so new to live alone, to have money of my own.

Diba?

Like Singapore for myself and even for Marvs, that was your first foray into just thinking about yourself.

Not having somebody tell you what time you should go home, what... Diba?

When you don't live with your parents.

Yun yun eh.

That was the first time.

So... Honestly, I can't remember any fear with Singapore.

And like you said, we had such a big

A journey with Filipina Mom Issa Abrillo

And so we managed to go home every, nga nga siguro four times a year if I remember right.

Three or four times a year.

So it wasn't that scary because you could always go.

And like people like you coming.

Yeah, you were like a hostel, okay?

Every week or something, you have to book in advance because there's always someone staying with you.

But then you were the first visitor, right?

And you came talaga before everybody else.

And I didn't even know Singapore then.

But it was really fun, diba?

So no, Singapore was easy.

It was an easy choice to make.

I have to say though that I applaud that you were so confident even if you had a relationship.

Because when I look back, and it's so gross, okay, I find myself so gross, that it was such a big deal for me when I'd have to leave Manila for work and leave a partner behind and parang the whole missing thing.

Parang now that I'm older, I'm like, what?

I had more fun!

Ay nako!

But was like LDR hard?

Ours was fake LDR.

We were apart for four months.

And in that four months, he came.

So super fast lang.

But we made that decision because I knew that he could come.

Because at that time, Singapore was still offering long-term passes for people to move.

So we knew it was gonna be easy.

So I remember I also had another long-distance relationship before.

Yes!

Are you sure you wanna mention?

No.

My point is...

My point is, with Marvs, it wasn't really long distance.

But it only works when you guys have a plan.

Even with all my other friends who've done long distance, I only see it working when they know, okay, this is our timeline.

This is when we're gonna see each other.

Kasi without that, you're gonna get used to the fact that you're apart.

And I don't really see the point unless you know you're gonna be together.

But that's me.

Other people can make it work.

Me, I cannot.

I don't know how.

Without a deadline or a tension.

Yeah, me too.

I can't do it.

But I think you have something to look forward to.

At least you know you're going to see each other.

Because I also had LDR and it was like, when are we even gonna see each other?

It was so hard.

It made it so hard.

But if you have a date and the tickets and all of that ready, parang I think that makes it...

Janine Ramirez titled Global Insights A Journey with Filipina Mom Issa Abrillo

somebody physically around.

Yeah, me also.

I like hugs.

So there, that's the advice, guys, for LDR.

Make sure you have your timelines.

Toto naman, di ba?

Yeah, yeah.

But I don't know now.

Maybe that's our generation.

We're old nais.

Maybe, no.

Maybe.

I'm speaking lang for what I think I could do.

But either way, I don't think I could do LDR.

Kaya nga, four months lang eh.

After that, wala na.

Okay, ayoko na ng heart stuff because who knows what's going to happen.

But you've had like, there, your corporate adventures are really scattered around the world.

Do you have a favorite city that you lived in?

That you'd consider living in again?

I don't know if I'd consider living there again, but I really love Japan.

Like, Tokyo was... And you know, right?

Yeah!

I think Japan is one of the countries that I've visited, like, a lot more times.

Usually, I don't like going back to a country that I've already been to or the city.

Parang, ah, I'll spend my money on something.

But Japan is like, just... I love it also.

It's so worth it.

I'm so jealous that you got to live, that you got to, yeah, but it's like short lang.

But anyway.

Yeah, but you were the same.

You did all of your, like, different, you lived almost in the same places that I did.

I mean, you did Amsterdam, so you went to Netherlands, you did Tokyo, and then you did Dubai, was it?

Yeah.

Dubai?

Yeah, Dubai and Doha.

Oh, Doha.

And what, what's there another one?

No, I think that was it.

Yeah.

I just followed you.

Thank you, you guys.

Subscribe to my newsletters.

Joke lang.

But okay, so you've lived in all these.

So what, okay, give me the lowdown of how long where?

Like Singapore, how long were you there?

Almost five years.

So, 2011 to 2016.

Tagalos.

And then, Tokyo was 2016 to 2020.

Our shortest so far was the Netherlands which was 2020 in the middle of the pandemic until 2022.

Gulo.

And then, now 22 to 23.

One year na in Italy.

Actually, we just celebrated our one year in Italy.

Wow!

Congratulations!

I can't even say anything.

But yeah, like what about Japan do you love?

I mean, I'm sure you'll agree.

One, the food is just so MG.

Like, honestly, any kind of food.

Yeah, but we're both living in places now that are also very, like, foodie.

I know, that's true, except I prefer Japanese food, so that's maybe one.

And then two, wala, parang Japan is just so cool.

Like, the vibe and the culture.

Parang you feel the culture so much, but then you also have, which is a bit traditional, but then you have like this super cool, hip, effortless vibe.

I don't know, whenever

Like whenever I walk the streets of Tokyo or even in the mga small cities or towns around, somehow there's always that one or two streets and you're like, my God, the stores are so cool, the people are so cool, everyone just looks... It's not even about beautiful, parang it's just, I don't know, the craft, the way they think, the... I don't know, it's... Yeah, the whole package.

I remember, Marvs, we were deciding at that time, diba?

I had an option to leave the company and work for a different company in Paris.

So we're like, okay.

Two different cities, one European, one Asian, both with languages that you need to learn.

You need to learn French to live in Paris.

You need to learn Japanese to live in Japan.

Where do you want to live?

And I was arguing with him because I was like, but I want, in my head kasi, like, we want to go global.

We were living in Asia already, so we need to go Europe.

And then he was like, but babe, when have you ever met anybody

A journey with Filipina Mom Issa Abrillo

Come on, Issa.

Japan, Japan.

Exception.

But it's true.

Even if we live in Asia, Japan is its own animal.

It's so different.

It's an alien world that I absolutely love.

I wanna go back!

We're trying to go visit next year.

Because we haven't visited since we left.

Because we left in the pandemic.

Like March 2020.

No, August 2020.

So...

Ang galing niyo talaga, Is.

I swear.

So purposeful all the time and then you make it happen.

Because there, I think you guys were really thinking of living in Japan, right?

Even before the opportunity presented itself.

Whenever I have career problems, I like talking to Issa.

But this is like new that I never really had to ask.

But making friends in a new city.

So when we were in college, like I was like super shy.

You're super shy!

And you had like so many friends.

And it's just through Issa that I kind of like know who is who.

Because if not, I'd just be in my cave.

But what is your trick

to making friends and especially, you know, outside of our country, like in a new city.

I don't think there's any trick.

I think, one, I think it helps when you really like talking to people.

I mean, I'm super extroverted, so it's different, right?

Like the comfort level when there's new people is different for different people.

For me, it's like when there's new people, it's like, oh, somebody to talk to.

So parang that in itself already removes all the barriers.

Although the older I get, the harder it gets.

The older we get, the harder it gets.

But it's different.

Like, new person, okay, yeah, sometimes it's exciting to get to know the person.

But sometimes the connection, di ba parang... It's different, Jan.

Like, to have someone to meet up with and talk to, but to have someone that you feel like is a friend for life.

Was that hard for you to find also in the cities you've lived?

Weirdly enough, there was always somebody that we found, that we could, that I found, like me personally, that I could talk to.

But it's not, it got harder the older we got talaga.

Like the, especially Netherlands and Italy, parang, kasi you also have the aspect of kids.

So,

It could help or not help.

Because then you have more parents to speak to.

But then, like you said, you don't have connections with everybody.

So you don't really want to waste your time talking to someone you're not interested in talking to, right?

So it's like, the first step is, okay, try to see if it's a connection.

And if it's not, like, something that you'll be so comfortable with.

I still say hi when I see them.

I do small talk.

Yowls.

But...

But hindi na yung parang, yeah.

Especially if you don't have that much time, right?

Exactly.

Kasi when will you do it?

Like, I really felt in Netherlands and here, the kid aspect really takes up so much of your time.

So, it's either... And we don't have help, right?

So you need to get a babysitter for you to be able to go out.

So we've been trying to do that better.

Para Marvs and I have a bit more adult time.

But it's not easy.

And you really need to...

A Journey with Filipina Mom Issa Abrillo

Why are we so like philosophical and parang always talking about life?

But I think we share, we have that in common that we don't like the parang random like light conversations and I think we're also the same in that we're just honest

Yeah, I'll tell you even if it's like a crappy part of my life.

Yeah, what do you want to know about my exes?

Is it like to the point of too much information?

Yeah, like sometimes it's like ay, parang baka I should have said it.

Baka they're like uncomfortable, right?

Like sometimes I remember I always, now na, I always ask like if it's not too personal.

Like I kinda add that as a disclaimer.

Like if it's okay with you or you don't have to tell me but if you feel comfortable in telling me, you can tell me.

Otherwise, sometimes it's right, di ba?

We're so open.

That maybe for other people, it's like, why is she so open?

We're not like best friends.

I know!

With this parang blog and newsletter thing, parang I got messages na like, thank you for opening up.

I'm like, it's not just me!

Okay, so speaking of like deep talk, like deep s**t, I'm going to make you pull all your wisdom together and reflect on, out of all the, like your entire life experience, your career in like so many different countries and from each country, what is like the most valuable lesson that you learned like in each country?

Ang hirap na.

Ang hirap, no?

Hello, I gave you this question beforehand.

I know, I know, I know.

Tingga ba?

Hindi.

I know I'm telling you that I had a hard time thinking about it.

Like, kanina I was like, what did I learn?

Where did I learn everything?

No, but Singapore, I think.

It's really funny because when I thought about it, I felt like everything I learned was always something that drove me towards the next.

Feeling ko, I mean, that's how I thought about it.

Kasi like, in Singapore, it was just about how big the world is and how much stuff there is to see and to do and to learn from.

Parang that was really it.

Okay, there's so many things out there that we never, that I at least, never really experienced or thought about when we were in Manila.

Because I think maybe culturally my family wasn't so much into that.

So it wasn't fed into me by family.

It was just something I had to learn or to see.

So I think Singapore for me was that.

Like shucks, the world is so big.

There's so much we can gain from it.

And I just wanna get that experience.

So it was that.

And then Tokyo was interesting because that was the first time I became a mom.

And then it's Tokyo.

So it was a combination of all the mom stuff which is essentially beyond yourself and how do I learn how to raise my child in this environment sort of lesson.

I can't think of a proper lesson but it was that learning that I was getting.

But then also it was about maybe the big lesson there was

Culture is so strong in some countries and you need to learn how to adapt and how to... How do you effectively make an impact or how do you effectively drive change without disrespecting culture?

I think for me that was a huge lesson at least from the professional piece but actually even personally kasi the culture was just so ingrained there so you cannot laugh at different cultures and you cannot say one is better than the other but if indeed you felt there was something you wanted to change for me it was that

How do I do that without the disrespect?

And with a proper level of... Like still honoring the culture that is, but parang pushing also for change and innovation.

And not coming in as saying, I know better than you, right?

Because that's the worst thing you can do.

Oh, that's so annoying.

Anyway, mayayami akong hugot with that.

Kasi when you come in especially you're not from that country and then you come in and you say you think you're better, like why?

Why would you even think that?

So for me that was really in Tokyo.

It was that combination of being a mom and then that piece.

And then of course with my husband pa.

So actually Tokyo for us was so pivotal because I think that's also where we

I really understood what it meant to be partners.

Me and Marvs.

Kasi grabe the sacrifices both of us had to make eh.

So it was, for me, that's why maybe to me Tokyo was so special.

Because you learn so many things there.

And Netherlands was the pandemic.

So... What did any of us learn in the pandemic?

So honestly, in the Netherlands... No, actually, in the Netherlands, one of the big... Because their culture is so direct, right?

So I think for me, the biggest learning is if you don't ask, you don't get.

So you need to say it.

If you don't say it, you're not gonna get it.

Because that's really how they are.

They just say it.

Not necessarily always in a rude way, sometimes in a rude way.

But you need to ask.

If there's something you want or if you don't ask, you're not even gonna know the answer.

So you need to ask.

And in Italy, we're still learning and figuring out.

Because honestly, it's like Manila.

Like the culture is like Manila's values.

Like, that was the first thing both of us were thinking about.

Kasi one, it's about family.

Family is so big.

It's about food.

The same way that we talk about food, other food while we're eating, it's the same here.

Like, we're eating yummy pasta and we're all like, oh, you know, the ragu pasta and that kind of stuff.

And the salumi in this place is so good, you should go there next time.

Like, it's so Filipino.

And then all the inefficiency and the bureaucracy is the same.

There's that here also.

Government, same.

And then also a little bit of the, I would say the patriarchal thinking is the same.

Diba?

Because Manila, no matter what you say, women are super strong, but no matter what you say, you still have that very patriarchal mindset.

And I don't blame it.

It's how Asians necessarily are usually raised.

Yeah.

I mean, we have to acknowledge it before it's changed.

But yeah, so that is super different here.

Here, the women are like, parang if you catcall or parang if a guy does something to a girl, it's like,

Ano?

Ano?

Lesson, they'll really get pissed.

Parang I was out with the parang girlfriends and wives of the barcada of Mikkel.

And we... One was parang lasing na.

And we were just in the street.

And there was a guy that just goes like, Oh wow, you look really good, but not in a bastos way.

Like, oh, so cute.

Parang ganon.

And she got pissed.

As in, she was like, what are you saying?

And then, parang he was like, whoa.

I just want to give you a compliment but fine.

I'm not gonna say anything anymore.

You know what I mean?

Because it wasn't like catcalling or parang objectifying.

It was actually really nice but I guess they're so used to standing up for themselves.

And when I watched Barbie with two of the girls here, and there's that scene in Barbie na they go into the real world and the guys are like, yeah.

And then they're parang rollerblading, and then there are guys catcalling and all of that.

They're like, that's so intense, ta-ta-ta.

And I'm like, yeah, that's Manila.

I was commuting in Manila all the time.

I'd be in like baggy clothes because I don't want, you know, I don't want to call attention to myself.

But here, parang they're matriarchal, I feel.

More in the north than the rest of Spain.

In the south.

Yeah.

But yeah, it's so interesting kasi, no?

Like, just comparing.

I mean, Italy and Spain are so close to each other.

But in terms of geography, right?

But then,

I feel like Italy is a little bit more traditional than Spain is.

And I would say, like I said, that patriarchy, that thinking is really still there.

That expectation, oh, you need to have children, you need to get married, you need to... All of those things that we grew up with in Manila, it's the same.

So that's why you're like, it's really like Manila.

Even like the passion and the dancing and the singing and all of that, it's the same.

So there's so many cool things.

I mean, that's why we love Philippines so much, right?

Because that piece of it is so fun.

So it's the same here.

Plus all the inefficiencies.

Okay, we talked about Manila and then we talked about like Aki and Bas and you know, wanting to leave Japan to kind of give Aki a different point of view or worldview.

What are like Pinoy things or values or whatever, something Pinoy that you want to make sure you instill in them even when you guys are living everywhere?

No, but it's super important.

But I think we're lucky because at least here now, where we live nga, it's so similar.

So this whole thing on family and respect, I think is really one thing na so Filipino.

Like spending time together, having dinner together.

I think even if Aki now complains.

No way!

Because he's six years old.

Yeah, he complains about like, why do you have to do this?

He's starting to complain already.

Parang ang patient mo ah.

I'm the more patient one.

I know it won't seem like it because Marvs is so chill but I'm the more patient one.

Poker face ni Marvs pero deep inside asar na asar na siya.

No, but it's really that.

I think it's the family spending time.

Kasi that's so Filipino.

And the love for food, which Bas seems to have.

Aki doesn't seem to have, so... Aki said the other day, Mama, when we're rich, or if we become rich, I think Bas will just want to pay all of the chefs.

I'm like, why?

No way!

Yeah, he said that.

I'm like, why?

Because he likes to eat everything.

He likes trying everything.

Yeah, but Aki realized it because he knows he doesn't.

Yeah, he saw the difference.

He's not so much into food.

Yeah, so it's funny.

But yeah, food, family, and all of those things that we grew up with, with the respect and stuff, I think that's something you don't wanna... And plus the humor.

Yeah.

Filipino humor.

Like, I know every nationality will say it.

Well, with Marvs, I don't doubt that.

Exactly.

It's impossible that they won't.

Kaya diba, like, I think every nationality has things their humor is so special, but it probably is.

So I think for us, it's such a big deal that they get our... and laughing even when it's shitty.

I think that's a Filipino thing.

It is!

Oh my gosh, like I was talking to Elisa.

Every time I talk to Elisa, we talk about like really intense shitty stuff.

We're always laughing.

What's wrong with us?

Are we crazy?

Why are we laughing?

Kasi what else will you do?

If you can't do anything, then you laugh.

There will be something funny about... Well, no, no, no.

Not everything.

No.

But yeah, like a lot of things, like I'd rather laugh about it and be able to find the humor in it than be ultra defensive and you know, super serious about it.

But I imagine that there are some things in history that, you know, we cannot joke about or laugh at.

Filipino history, yes.

Because Filipinos can laugh at anything.

Anything.

Okay!

Let's come to an end, Ys, because we have so much chismis pa to talk about after.

At I wanna ask everyone that I have on, because this is called I Suck, and because I think parang there, you're like this fearless person, but is there something that you felt like you genuinely struggled with, and how did you overcome that?

I think it's finding the balance talaga.

And it's probably the most typical one you're gonna hear with a lot of women.

But me, it's really finding that balance.

Still being a 100% great mom, being amazing at your job, and then also making sure

You take care of your partner.

And then also, not forgetting your own identity.

Parang, how the hell do you do that?

Yeah, how do you do all of that?

No, but I don't.

That's my point.

I don't.

Because it's such a struggle.

So, like, something will give, you know?

Like, sometimes I feel so bad because I'm working so late.

And so, when the kids see me, I'm so tired.

They can't even speak to me because my brain is still on the job.

And then similarly, when I'm at work, and

I had spent time with the kids focusing on other things.

Parang I don't feel naman I'm on top of work.

And then you also have a partner.

Parang how do you spend time?

And then I want to work out.

And then I want to properly learn Italian.

I want to be able to read a book.

Hang out with my friends.

So parang... When do you do all of that?

It's so hard to be excellent at all these things.

Wala talaga.

Kailangan average.

And I really don't think...

But I really don't know how other people do it and if they are actually able to do it.

With a lot of help, I guess, right?

Exactly.

I was gonna say I'm lucky I have a partner that's super supportive, right?

Parang I really feel like we're equals in the relationship.

And I don't think everybody has that.

But other people also have other things.

Kasi kami, we live alone eh.

So for us, it's the two of us need to really figure things out.

For others, it's great when you have your family around you and help around you.

So that somehow, not makes it easier, but it helps, right?

But it's still difficult.

I can't imagine for everybody na.

I'm sure everybody's in the same situation.

With or without kids.

Yeah, there's always this, you know that there's something that you're not doing well.

I don't know but is there some people that

It seems, maybe no, and maybe that's why I wanna have these conversations with people.

Like, I feel like you would've been one of the ones that just got everything, you know, and is doing everything great.

And so I wanna have these conversations to find out if it's true, number one.

And if it's not, like, parang how to get over that.

That idea that we have to be amazing at all these things that we wanna achieve in our lives.

No, it's really hard.

And you really need to give yourself the grace, I would say.

You don't have to be perfect at everything.

And then in the end, it's really what your priorities are.

Parang you'll have to prioritize.

And there will be something that's more important.

And to me, it's really family.

But that's a struggle trying to put that in action.

Kasi with a family, it feels like parang they're just there, right?

They're waiting.

The demand is different.

When you're at work, the demand is so obvious because it's like you're so accountable.

So with a family thing, you need to remember you're really... It's like you need to have your own accountability.

Na parang, s**t, I'm not doing this enough with my kid.

I'm not spending enough time with my husband.

You're gonna give yourself KPIs for your family life, Is?

Not KPIs, but at least... Because who's gonna hold me accountable?

Isurvey natin si Aki and si Marvs.

Did mama give you breakfast this morning?

Was she there when you needed help with homework?

Are you satisfied with your mama's love and affection?

That's a joke.

Does she hug you enough?

Yeah.

And then there's this whole gentle parenting and old school parenting.

Nako, don't even get me started because that's even a completely different story.

That's a different podcast that you and like Burns can...

Together and Jella.

But how interesting would it be to have the three of us talking about that?

Because I feel like the girls are so different.

It's true.

It's true.

Even just parang being with you and Jella in Paris, right?

And just see you and Marvs, and then Jella and Ross, and it's like, just so different, but we all get along.

Because there's respect, like you said.

Yeah, it is.

You can't judge people, really.

Well, we can't judge other people.

Yeah, but we always judge ourselves.

Why?

Okay.

Let's end there and try to do some yoga and meditation and give ourselves the grace and appreciation after we end this.

That we deserve.

Yes.

But thanks so much, Issa.

It was super fun catching up and throwing out questions that made you reflect and think.

You made me reflect so much.

It's so annoying.

Brain drain ba?

But I loved your answers and I hope our listeners did too.

So if you did, reach out to Issa and don't forget to subscribe.

Thanks, Is!

And thank you to whoever is listening.

Bye!