I Wanna Jump Like Dee Dee

In the last few 6 or 7 years – and bear with me here - I’ve become much more interested in the nature of the relationship between humans and other species, forces or whatever – animals, birds, trees, plants, the elements… nature, I guess. I think the genesis was when I listened to a conversation with the novelist Richard Powers and he was talking about his book The Overstory and how we should think of ourselves as being part of life itself, not think of living in terms of “our life” – a subtle distinction – but his conclusion was that it would help us all live more harmoniously. But the human obsession with domination, together with our selfishness I guess - and we’re going back centuries here – has led us down a very different path where anything non-human is deemed as being there to serve us. That doesn’t make any sense to me, it just feels destructive.

It also made me think of our relationship with our senses – hearing, seeing, smell, taste and touch and, as hearing is the first sense that we experience in the womb, about how we listen to music – is it about pleasurable listening or is there more? Should we be going back further into times past to re-evaluate our relationship with sound? 

When I think of Guido of Arezzo, the monk who first started creating “music” by plotting notes on a page, was that when music first became objectified as a score on a piece of paper, almost imprisoned on the page? Should music really be more about a creative act of improvisation where it shapeshifts and changes each time you perform it? Is that how it keeps its energy? How do we listen with more intention?

I’m getting to the point, you’ll be glad to know! OK, well, Massimo Pupillo has just unleashed an absolute beast of a record with his band Zu. It’s called Ferrum Sidereum (cosmic iron – yes, it sounds better in Latin) and it’s one of the most phenomenal pieces of music that I’ve heard in a long time. One hour 20 minutes of incredible energy that bridges that gap between its creators, the vitality and energy of the natural world and me the listener. I once read music described as “our umbilical cord to mother nature”. This record feels like that. 

https://www.iwannajumplikedeedee.com


I Wanna Jump Like Dee Dee is the music podcast that does music interviews differently.

Giles Sibbald talks to musicians, DJ’s and producers about how they use an experimental mindset in every part of their lives.

- brought to you from the mothership of the experimental mindset™
- cover art by Giles Sibbald 
- doodle logo and art by Tide Adesanya, Coppie and Paste

One thing I’m aware of in myself and others is a shortening attention span and fierce competition for our attention with the sheer amount of information we have to process. If ever there was “it was never like this in the good old days” moment, here you are. As an aside, I actually heard that screenwriters are being told by production companies, distributors or whatever that they need to write scripts that assume the viewer will also be scrolling on their phone whilst watching their show. 

And like most things in the world today, it feels like an overwhelming problem to solve – and I think it is a problem – but we can all do our bit to try and reign in the relentless assault on our behaviours and art definitely helps. I even try to do it with the way I write my zine – deliberately scruffy and distressed so readers can’t just have a cursory flick through it. I mean it’s more layered than that, but you get my point.

So…..here’s the link – as tenuous as ever! - to my guest, Mélanie Pain, whom you’ll of course know through her incredible work with Nouvelle Vague and her equally brilliant solo work.  Mélanie has just released her 4th solo album called How and Why and the final single that she released prior to the album launch is called Dreamloop and the song in its own right is truly beautiful, hypnotic and very unhurried. When you listen to the song with the video, you are transported into a world where the ordinary is anything but ordinary and it acquires implications through the camera loops and repeated scenes. 

It demands you take your time and immerse yourself in what feels like a William Eggleston pastiche through a saturated looking glass. Sit back and let your attention span heal. The whole album is wonderful – enigmatic, sometimes optimistic, sometimes forlorn and always giving space for reflection. Look no further than Colours in the Dark – it is just sublime.

https://www.iwannajumplikedeedee.com


I Wanna Jump Like Dee Dee is the music podcast that does music interviews differently.

Giles Sibbald talks to musicians, DJ’s and producers about how they use an experimental mindset in every part of their lives.

- brought to you from the mothership of the experimental mindset™
- cover art by Giles Sibbald 
- doodle logo and art by Tide Adesanya, Coppie and Paste

The genesis of this podcast was a thesis that I did about 8 years ago around the sort of skills and attributes that we will need for the future. I used a horrible term – human capital - to describe the value that these things give us because that was the terminology that was understood in the academic circles that I was submitting to. I now see it as quite a derogatory term, but the premis still stands – that our self, our own talent is our most important resource that we need to protect, nurture and adapt. 

It’s all part of a massive shift in how we live our lives – from a linear 3 stage life to a multi-stage life

One of the big mega trends influencing these shifts continues to be technology – particularly the transition from the 4th Industrial Revolution of high automation into the 5th Industrial Revolution where the relationship between technology and humans takes on much greater importance.

I’m saying all of this because my guest today, Halina Rice, is wholly immersed in using sound and visual technology for her live and recorded experiences where music, art, humans and technology  intersect. Her latest album, Unreality, and the accompanying visuals, is groundbreaking stuff.

https://www.iwannajumplikedeedee.com


I Wanna Jump Like Dee Dee is the music podcast that does music interviews differently.

Giles Sibbald talks to musicians, DJ’s and producers about how they use an experimental mindset in every part of their lives.

- brought to you from the mothership of the experimental mindset™
- cover art by Giles Sibbald 
- doodle logo and art by Tide Adesanya, Coppie and Paste

New York has always been – bold statement coming up – my favourite music city. No question that it’s connected to my life changing discovery of the Ramones way back when. I still can’t walk past the Guild Hall in my hometown of Preston without a couple of nostalgic tears forming for when I first saw them play there  – I tried my best not to wash off the water that Joey threw over me when things were getting a little hot. 

But getting back on track… all those New York musicians over the years – infinitely different stylistically, but almost always identifiable as a New York “sound”. I don’t know what it is – and hindsight’s a glorious thing to have – but could the Ramones, Blondie, Public Enemy, Roxanne Shante, Lou Reed, Talking Heads, Swans, Sonic Youth, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Nas, have existed anywhere else and created their own distinctive sound yet is still a New York sound? 


Jesse Hartman's, Laptop, goes back to the late 90’s – such a divisive decade. I really feel Laptop were ahead of their time and this is perhaps part of what makes New York New York – that ability to be ahead of the pack so often . They had the cinematic monologues, the rebellion, the self deprecation, the love, the heartbreak, the nostalgia and an ability to cross generations. I say that because I’m 20-odd years older and their second coming is here and I’m still hooked.

https://www.iwannajumplikedeedee.com


I Wanna Jump Like Dee Dee is the music podcast that does music interviews differently.

Giles Sibbald talks to musicians, DJ’s and producers about how they use an experimental mindset in every part of their lives.

- brought to you from the mothership of the experimental mindset™
- cover art by Giles Sibbald 
- doodle logo and art by Tide Adesanya, Coppie and Paste

When I started out with this podcast, one of the things that I was – still am - interested in is the uncertainty of living today and how it takes us into living with liminality. 

“In the middle of the journey of our life I came to myself within a dark wood where the straight way was lost.”

The Divine Comedy – Dante 

It makes me wonder if life always been woven together with paths of liminality. I guess it has. And perhaps what was liminal to someone in the 14th Century would not feel liminal to us now. I shudder to think what those folk would feel about the world today. Mind you, I imagine the 14th Century was pretty brutal. Not medieval for nothing. But how do we traverse the anxiety, turbulence and exhaustion that living with liminality can give, especially these days when the world feels so, SO fucked up. The feelings can be so very strong.

I’ve also pondered (as I do – we all have our faults!) what the role of music is these days. I read a post by a musician friend of mine and he was expressing his exhaustion at living in this world. Is music and art the medicine that we need, either as creators or consumers to retain sanity, connection and community or to access our subconscious? Is it still as dangerous to the establishment as it once was? 

This and other existential questions relating to our existence and how we move through the world might be pondered in today’s episode with a songwriter, producer and musician who has such an extensive and rich musical history with some exceptional artists (one of whom, Debbie Harry, is unquestionably a legend) and has just released his latest solo album called 'Stories From The Borderlines', 11 beautifully crafted songs that brood with their imagination, poignancy, turmoil and hopefulness. I think it’s a great representation of the world today and the wildly diverse emotions that I often feel.

https://www.iwannajumplikedeedee.com


I Wanna Jump Like Dee Dee is the music podcast that does music interviews differently.

Giles Sibbald talks to musicians, DJ’s and producers about how they use an experimental mindset in every part of their lives.

- brought to you from the mothership of the experimental mindset™
- cover art by Giles Sibbald 
- doodle logo and art by Tide Adesanya, Coppie and Paste

I think relatability has become one of those words that has become overused and, as is usual with these things, the importance of what it means to be relatable has tended to become a bit diluted….it’s unfairly become a target for the old eye rolling emoji. But, I think being able to relate to other people is such a powerful tool to have in our box in whatever way we communicate – through words, action or our art – especially when we seem to be such a divided world and seem to have little desire for even tolerating or even understanding different perspectives.

It’s not the only tool we need I should stress, but when we pair it with imagination and curiosity for example, I think it becomes very powerful for opening our minds to different ideas, ways of doing things, cultures.  

I’ve asked musicians what they think the role of music is these days and views do differ – from getting strong political messages across to being a bit of fun to an escape from reality and to the deeply personal and cathartic. 

Anyway, whatever my pseudo-intellectual musings, it feels to me like music – certainly the music that I come across - is so much more personal these days.


I recorded this episode on the day that Jessie Kilguss released her 6th solo album and it’s called They Have A Howard Johnson’s There, six beautifully crafted songs that are wonderfully evocative of life topped off by cover art that is resplendent in its 1970’s hotel vibes. 

In fact, I remember my parents having one of those wood/mustard upholstery combo sitting chairs.

So there you go, there’s your relatability!

https://www.iwannajumplikedeedee.com


I Wanna Jump Like Dee Dee is the music podcast that does music interviews differently.

Giles Sibbald talks to musicians, DJ’s and producers about how they use an experimental mindset in every part of their lives.

- brought to you from the mothership of the experimental mindset™
- cover art by Giles Sibbald 
- doodle logo and art by Tide Adesanya, Coppie and Paste

When Segs and I were messaging trying to organise this podcast, Segs wrote something like “we’ve got lots to talk about…the world is changing what feels like day by day”. Now with my meticulous research – OK, it was just by luck! -  I was reading back at an interview Segs, Ruffy and me did a couple of years ago just after they’d done their first tour of Spain. And we were talking about movements getting big and Segs said “The bigger the movement gets it has to get okayed by the government and the it becomes “you can demonstrate here and here and here between this time and that time, don’t make too much noise and we won’t kettle you”.

And that was when Sunak – a Tory - was Prime Minister.

Fast forward to now and talk about speed of change - we have a Labour government who are now probably more aggressive in shutting down dissent and protest than anyone in my memory. 

So, talking about the speed of change in the world, there you go…..

Segs and Ruts DC are producing some of the most passionate and accomplished music that’s entirely in tune with the groundbreaking music from The Ruts and just as relevant as The Ruts music was and still is.  Having them around, producing great music, taking a stand against the injustices, governments and corporations that blight our world, and doing it all with an unflinching, unwavering message of “people unite … never surrender” is, I think, one of life’s victories that we should honour.

https://www.iwannajumplikedeedee.com


I Wanna Jump Like Dee Dee is the music podcast that does music interviews differently.

Giles Sibbald talks to musicians, DJ’s and producers about how they use an experimental mindset in every part of their lives.

- brought to you from the mothership of the experimental mindset™
- cover art by Giles Sibbald 
- doodle logo and art by Tide Adesanya, Coppie and Paste

One area of my being that I’ve been working on is not feeling the necessity to be ultra-prepared for things. Things like my podcast episodes. I’ve been able to trace this back to when I was a kid – long story which I won’t bore you with. I think this is tied into this obsession that a lot of society has with perfectionism – don’t make a mistake, be ready for all angles, get it right first time – when really, human beings are far from perfect and we don’t need to dig too far into the newspaper headlines to see many examples of this.

So, I took the very brave (for me) step of doing something that’s really important for so many reasons – getting out of my comfort zone. So, I have avoided any research on my guest today, other than he is a co-founder of the band Afrodream who have recently released their second and totally inspiring album called Guiss Guiss, a beautifully uplifting, diverse and rich mix of rhythms, instrumentation and vocals at the core. It’s really, really special.

This conversation with one of the founders of Afrodream, Luca Vergano, was perfect - fun, informative and inspiring. 

https://www.iwannajumplikedeedee.com


I Wanna Jump Like Dee Dee is the music podcast that does music interviews differently.

Giles Sibbald talks to musicians, DJ’s and producers about how they use an experimental mindset in every part of their lives.

- brought to you from the mothership of the experimental mindset™
- cover art by Giles Sibbald 
- doodle logo and art by Tide Adesanya, Coppie and Paste

I do think of my formative years a lot – and I think this started to happen more when my parents died in 2022. Music started to become huge for me around 1976 when I was 8 and started playing the cello…but I did have some music differences of opinion let’s say as I got a bit older and started to  listen to “bang and thump music” as my dad used to call it  – I really struggled to reconcile what I now know is a beautiful instrument with the Ramones, who were changing my life and pulling me in the other direction – it was like I had an alter ego. I mean, it’s not a big deal in the whole scheme of things, but you know, each to their own. 

Anyway, I just devoured more and more music – bands like Killing Joke, Siouxsie, Au Pairs, Minutemen, Husker Du - and as I found more and more stuff through, mainly listening to Peel and other local radio – like Steve Barker’s On The Wire and Tony Michaelides on Piccadilly or just taking a chance based on whether I liked the sleeve, I started to get into more of the avant garde, off kilter, skrunky, weird – Neubauten, Alien Sex Fiend, Bush Tetras, The Fall, Butthole Surfers and then there was a bit of a lightbox moment with Tackhead’s Hard Left around 86, I think before Public Enemy came along and changed things again.

There was also another band who completely flummoxed, intrigued and excited me - and that was Fini Tribe. There was the underground and there was Fini Tribe. I had no idea how to describe them. They didn’t sound like anyone else. I had no idea what they looked like. And I didn’t know much about them. And I had no idea what to expect. And of course, we lived in an age of genre obsession – still do - so they were real genre party poopers. So, by the time I was listening to Splash Care or Detestimony, there were frequent shouts of “turn that shit off”. I was very used to this. Especially from the fella that liked Dire Straits.

But Fini Tribe awakened an excitement in me – listening to them was like Alice Through The Looking Glass stepping into another world that felt as distant and exciting to me as when I got those first Killing Joke records…

I never got to see them live so to now have a wonderful compilation of their 1982-1987 years called The Sheer Action of Fini Tribe, diligently and lovingly brought to life by the band with tracks I’ve never heard before including some live tracks, well, it’s well worth the wait. 

This is such an exhilarating and fascinating insight with Christopher Connelly and Davie Miller.

https://www.iwannajumplikedeedee.com


I Wanna Jump Like Dee Dee is the music podcast that does music interviews differently.

Giles Sibbald talks to musicians, DJ’s and producers about how they use an experimental mindset in every part of their lives.

- brought to you from the mothership of the experimental mindset™
- cover art by Giles Sibbald 
- doodle logo and art by Tide Adesanya, Coppie and Paste

As we were recording this episode, Natalie Hoffmann was a week or so away from releasing a third album with her band Optic Sink called Lucky Number and you’re in for a treat. 

It’s like a modern day film noir on the rainy, lonely streets - well, the streets were definitely rainy where I grew up – trying to discover who you are. 

After all these years, I’m still taken aback with how music evokes strong feelings of time and place. It makes me wonder if we are more receptive to songs or parts of songs - whether they be riffs, synth flourishes, percussion or whatever - when we feel particularly connected - with that time or place. I wonder if we are also, y’know, wired to be nostalgic to an extent. 

I guess we are and our brain is always looking for reference points so it can make its decisions.

That line in The Buzzcocks’ Nostalgia:

“I guess it’s just the music that brings on nostalgia for an age yet to come”

….it brings up such an interesting way to think about nostalgia. Future nostalgia - not the Dua Lipa album - but situations where you are nostalgic now when you know you are going to lose something or someone in the future but r where you will be nostalgic at some stage in the future for what’s happening now.

So, the big question is: will I be nostalgic in 20 years time about the music Natalie is creating today – I’d be pretty confident in my answer but check back in 20 years time in a podcast from the future...

https://www.iwannajumplikedeedee.com


I Wanna Jump Like Dee Dee is the music podcast that does music interviews differently.

Giles Sibbald talks to musicians, DJ’s and producers about how they use an experimental mindset in every part of their lives.

- brought to you from the mothership of the experimental mindset™
- cover art by Giles Sibbald 
- doodle logo and art by Tide Adesanya, Coppie and Paste