Jesse sits down in person with longtime friend and retired firefighter Kevin Lyon for a raw, thoughtful conversation about vocation, transition, and identity. From the unexpected pivot out of pastoral ministry to crawling through tight fire academy pipes (literally)Kevin shares how his journey has been shaped by fear, purpose, and presence. He reflects on what it meant to be an “undercover pastor” in the firehouse, navigating trauma while trying not to lose himself or his family in the process. They also explore what it takes to re-enter home life after high-stakes calls and why retirement isn’t the finish line, but a shift into deeper availability. Together, they talk about daily bread, dark humor, sonship, and the power of people who are unimpressed with your résumé.

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